| Username |
Post |
| villageVoice |
Posted
on 06-Jan-02 10:00 PM
It's been more than 40 days since the government went into an all-out offensive against Maoist-led "people's war", arguably the most serious threat to our national security since the restoration of democracy. To Nepal, this war is as important as the current anti-al Qaeda battle is to US, maybe more.
Isn't it time then to consider how these institutions have fared:
1. Prime Minister Deuba's popularity has gone up/down during the high-stakes war? (My vote: A big "yes")
2. Royal Nepal Army.
(My vote: Yes. They seem to be getting a handle within months while the police had failed for years. At least Chief Prajawals isn't whining unlike Kharel and co.l)
Scores of them have been killed. Isn't it time we humanized the army? Who were the dead - didn't they deserve a more decent/heroic deaths? What of Chief's Prajawala SJB Rana's recent comments, for example?
3. Monarchy? Though I personally like to think the King is just a rubber stamp as our constitution mandates.
(I dunno. I wasn't really impressed with King G's visit to RNA headquaters. But Royal Palace at least comes up with explanations now while there were none earlier. That's a damn good start.)
3. What has been the role of prominent leaders - NC's Koirala, UML's Nepal and Oli and RPP.
Koirala: Bad. (He should call it a day, and concentrate on writing a book, maybe coauthor it with KP Bhattarai.) Madhav Kumar: as confused as ever. That man lacks spine. Oli? Haven't heard much from him.
4. Have there been serious violations of civil liberties?
I dunno. Someone tell me.
5. Media ?
Pretty mixed. It's hard to tell whether it's the media that's resorting to self-censorship, or govt muzzling the press.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 07-Jan-02 02:42 PM
VVji:
My ratings:
1. Deuba: Overall, OK. Despite journalists arrests, he moved on to assuage the
public.
His ministers: Mostly No. No one is seen encouraging the army. No one is seen in
afflicted area, allevating public fear. They are still apprehensive about
what would happen to them if council of minister is reformed.
2. RNA: definitely, UP.
3. Monarchy: UP.
Here again, I would like to borrow Nepe's term: there is probably some
master-slave attitude in our PMs. They can't tell loudly to the king what their
constitutional right is. The hullaballoo about his deplorable non-constitutional
nature of visit helped to ask questions about his future intention, but a quick
polite reply clarification was on the way!
4. Very likely,there are violations of civil liberty. But such violations are not
encouraged. Army brass is quick to propitiate critics.
5. Media: Down. It is distasteful to read most of the media these days. Thankfully,
someone posted Baburam's article here in GBNC today!
--------
To continue our discussion from previous thread,
I think I agree with your points, but our difference is on the attitude of India.
We think it is very likely that Maoists from Andhra Pradesh and Bihar are also
fighting and trainining their comrades in Rolpa, but should we stop talking to India?
How much do you think Musharraf has power in Pakistan? I think his penetration is
largely overestimated. Pakistan is pretty much a failed state, where governance is
nonexistence in most parts. The government is trying to crack down on the
terrorists, and it needs external not-so-obtrusive assistance.There are some
JamaatEIslamis who have even called for death of Musharraf. Btw, the cheif
Bukhari of New Delhi's Jaamaa Masjid also called for death of Musharraf.So, I don't
really think that, at present, Musharraf is accomplice of Moslem fundamentalists.
So, India should have pursued dialogue. Not intransigence. It only left a bitter
aftertaste for a lot of us.
|
| Horizon |
Posted
on 07-Jan-02 05:56 PM
1. Deuba: UP due to the war only. He is only as good as his council of ministers. As long as there are likes of Khum Bha Khadka as his lieutenants, how can we trust him ?
2. RNA - A big thumbs UP but I don't want to downplay the sacrifice of Nepal Police or blame on Kharel solely. Police didn't have so much resources or the law to work with. None knew if Maobadi were a political force or terrorist then. Police didn't have enough flexibility comparatively.
3. Monarchy: Slightly UP - Palace seems much more supportive and responsive than any other time. Let's hope this attitude is here to stay.
4. Prominent leaders - NC's Koirala - He's been supportive after all this is what he wanted to do a long time ago. We still need him around. Bhattarai needs to go now. There has been no real and responsible opposition in Nepal. What's the point even discussing them.
5 . Civil liberties and Media - It's too soon to access with all the legal limitations.
|
| villageVoice |
Posted
on 08-Jan-02 09:19 AM
Biswoji:
I really don't know how much power Gen. M. have. I sincerely hope he has enough to rein in fundamentalists in the army and keep a tab on the nuclear button. Yes, Pak. is a failed state and that's exactly why I don't believe a lot of thing M. says. Who does he represent anyway?
As for Vajpayee snubbing him at SAARC, well, as I said, that may not have looked very attractive, but I liked what V. did. As a democratic leader, he can't possibly go against the public opinion and most Indians now want a decisive military action against Pakistan, abettor of terrororism in Kashmir and elswhere in India. Even BBC (not CNN, mind you!) aired footage the other day where Indians living along the LOC said, enough's enough - let's go for some decisive action against Pakistan.
True, SAARC has paid a heavy price in the process. There was no meaningful dialogue in Kathmandu and all that the world wanted to know was what kind of sound bites would they get from PM V and Gen. M. Pity a lot of these analysts didn't even bother to mention that SAARC has five other members besides Indian and Pakistan.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 09-Jan-02 12:28 AM
HahooGuru is not new charracter here, but, just a renamed face, that
means the same guy with a mask of "HahooGuru". With his
writing you will not need much time to understand who he was.
Its just to avoid the misuse of his original name/initial by some
unknown faces ---- :) :} ... HahooGuru.
Lets come to point/topic.
After going through SAARC Festival, (a friend of mine call
such international or national conferences are just a
festival and get together parties to friendship extension
gatherings), what I had realized is that the leaders of
highly populated sectioin of the world are not less than
kids, we used to be kids. I guess we all used to have
some misunderstanding between our own too good
friends and we used to start "nabolne" as another
punishment to our small misunderstanding, as long as
some other good friends feel it uneasy to find these
too good friends not talking or not shaking hands
as if an ego clash. I can remember those old days,
when we both parties wanted to continue good
relation, but, our illusive pride moves us to "nabolne"
"hand shake nagarne" type of punishment to each
other, when our heart is really interested in talking
as better as before. Our Sajha.com's heavy wt.
Ashu and his former roommate RBS even now
continue the Vaj-Mush style fightings of NABOLNE
and pachadi pachadi Sarcastic comment garne, while
their heart still reminds the old good days while
sharing the same room in Boston. I felt Vajpayee and Mushraff
were showing the same drama thats like kids have.
How funny, they were? Looking at them, I don't
feel my kidding nickname is that much bad idea and my earlier
postings were so bad or childish. I feel myself in
too romantic mood looking at those leaders.
Well, when I met a Prof. recently talked to him
about life and our feeling and spirits. At one point,
I told him that I don't want
to be very old and be burden to the society and
particularly to my kids. I would rather prefer to
die around 80years old if god allows me to remain
here until 80.
Then, his reply was like this:
When you get old, your feelings, and spirits does
not change much, your inner feelings and desire
almost look as same as today or when you were
kid. He said his feeling and spirits have not changed
much except his face, and young peoples think that
he is old and obsolete, but, he feels as same as he was
young. Thats why Vajpayee and Mushraff were
behaving like kids, while their face look old. Even
very old peoples have same feelings and same desires
to do things, only they are physically not able sometime.
So, don't make mistake in judging the peoples by looking
at their face and they will remain same. So, the handshake
drama should not be very surprising. Well, then I tried
to read his explanations on myself and found it quite
true. When I was in grade 10th, I was 3rd youngest
in my class of 100 students and feel that all students
are already too old and now, again I have almost the same feeling
today when I see peoples older than me. So, Mushraff
Vajpayee have not much difference in their feeling, only
difference they have is they learned some new things to
run the country and play politics, mostly same. Its also
applicable to our Deuba PM.
--
HahooGuru
|
| Nepe |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 12:03 AM
I agree with HahooGuru. Many of Indian foreign policy look like a game of a childish mind, guided by ego and shaped by short-sightedness. But again, that could be a reflection of overall backwardness of South Asia. Indo-Pak conflict is a burden of their history. There is no solution to this problem until and unless either the leaderships of these countries rise to such intellectual/moral height that can choose to turn the history by throwing historical burdens away for the sake of humanity or the countries themselves prosper to develop a required self-confidence to genuinely listen to the other party. The arrogance of civil governments of India and Pakistan (not military government, at least not General Musharraf, because he can afford not to be) is nothing but lack of self confidence owing to poverty and backwardness in their countries. A complex psychology.
Having said that, I think Vajpayee looked dwarf with his cold response to Musharraf. Yes, Musharraf is a military dictator. But I can not help marveling his progressiveness as compared to his civil counterparts. That does not mean I advocate for his military rule. I sincerely believe in democracy. I believe that what Pakistan needs, for her own good, is strengthening democracy by abolishing the fear of hanging sword of military. In Nepal too, in my view, similar situation exists. The hanging sword, in Nepal’s case, is not military but the power to which it is de facto loyal. Maoists’ rebellion is another dimension of the same problem. It is not a separate problem of law and order or terrorism. It is the flip side of monarchy. Democracy in Nepal is suffering the fate of ‘ Bachchha ko michaai’ in ‘ saandhe ko judhaai’ between monarchy and Maoists.
Now, to the original posting about rating the performance of major players of Nepal-
I think, unless it is meant for pure entertainment, there is no point separating these players because all of them are playing the same big game from the different places of the same chess board according to their respective ranks. Now let’s see how they are playing the game and try to rank them.
Deuba:
Biswoji kindly mentioned my ‘slave-master’ hypothesis regarding the psyche of Nepali politicians. That’s right. Deuba and his lieutenants are nothing but a ‘naikey’ and ‘bhai naikey’ of Nepali jail. The king is the jailer. Maoists are some prisoners revolting against the jailer. If Deuba has a heart and a brain, he must have been going through a toughest war of conscience inside himself. Is there anything more difficult than to kill hundreds of innocent (yes, innocent, look at the face of captured “terrorists” you see on the screen of sarkari TV, see their ‘lawaai kawaai’, then compare them with ‘ ghus ra commission le motaeka mantri haru, and face of our king and prince that has shined with royal glory blinding everyone’s eye, you must be insane not to see them innocent) young boys and girls and to know it is just to save a family, the royal family (some may say to me, no, it is not a mere family, it is an institution, moron. But let me tell you this, if [God forbid ] Gyanendra’s family gets killed tomorrow, there won’t be monarchy in Nepal any more. Or are we going to enthrone some Malla or Sen dynasty ? So, Deuba is (or better made to) fight a bloody war to save just a family in Nepal.). Deuba is saying he was dragged to this war by Maoists themselves. Maoists left the table. Maoists attacked the royal army first ! Deuba has a clear conscience ! Maoists are responsible ! They deserve to be killled ! (I see many posters echoing it in this forum. Wait wait wait. Let me finish first). First the table. There was table. But it was empty. Deuba had nothing to serve on the table. Because, the chef had cooked nothing. Deuba knows it. But he has to boast that he set the table. Empty table. ‘Sterile talk’ in Baburam’s word. The game was between the chef and the customer. Deuba was a helpless waiter dreaming about his ‘tips’. Customer decided to bargain. They broke a window pane and declared that they are destroying the kitchen. Waiter and other happy customers know that it was just a bargaining, because the unhappy customer does not have enough force (yet) to do what they threatened. Yet some of them chose to pretend that unhappy one was really upto what he declared . And so on.
So my rating of Deuba: poor waiter. Keeps waiting.
Next, the king:
I was in Kathmandu before second round of HMG-Maoists talk. My former professor, who gambled his academic career to politics and so knows one or two things about it, was telling me, ‘I do not understand why these politicians and intellectuals keeps talking about peace talks when they know they do not have the key . Nobody of them can solve this problem. There is only one person who can solve this problem. It is the king. Because he himself is the issue. Who else has power to decide about it ?’
Who can say my professor is not right. But it is clear now how this ‘the only man in the country who has the key’ decided to ‘solve’ this problem. When Gyanendra gave marathon interview and told that ‘it’ was not his wish, many ‘kattar prajaatantrabaadiharu’ felt uneasy. Some condemned. But I think the king was expressing his guilt. Because he knows all this happened ‘for him, by him and of him’. If this is the case, I have sympathy for the king.
More to follow....
Nepe
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 12:48 AM
Nepe wrote:
Is there anything more difficult than to kill hundreds of innocent (yes, innocent, look at the face of captured “terrorists” you see on the screen of sarkari TV, see their ‘lawaai kawaai’, then compare them with ‘ ghus ra commission le motaeka mantri haru, and face of our king and prince that has shined with royal glory blinding everyone’s eye, .....
----
The Nepali Maoists started war not because there was Gyanendra
as King of Nepal, but, Birendra was the King. After death of
birendra family, Maoist leader BRB praised Birendra and also
referreed that that they had good relation with (.....) birendra
via Gyanendra's younger brother i.e. Dhirendra. For this write
up KPub editors were jailed for few days. Here, I find uncomfortable
with the way Maoists are changing their issues. I am totally
confused : they wer fighting against X, and now with Y because
now public sentiments diverted and Maoists were also diverted.
This is totally confusing, if you are not blind supporter of Maoists.
Review how Maoist change their topics.
Well, regarding the TV shows and death of Maoists with lower
standard LAWAAI KHAWAAI, I am also wondering why the
hell, Maoists do not take any action against country's most
corrupt top level peoples? In Nepal, you can even meet
PM if wish it, and you can clear those illusive security checks.
But, its very very funny, they never took any action against
top level corrupts like Govinda Raj Joshi, Khum Bahadur
, Surya Bahadur , .... If you really wish, you can go with
all size of guns in their home, if you make enough home work,
but, they never did it. While Maoists were engaged in killing
school teachers by dragging them from class room and killing
infront of students, a mercy death. They kill lower class
peoples... but, why? when the top level corrupts are always spared?
(Well, top level corrupts do pay some ransom to the Maoists
and thats why they were always spared, and those who
can not pay are always sacrificed in the name revolution).
So, Nepe ji, sentiment or emotions only do not work, thats
what I was writing in my previous postings.
Nepali Maoist leaders were behaving as childish as Vajpayee.
Nepal's maoist movement is fully based on Sentimental
and emotional methods, and therefore, Prachanda apologized
with the peoples of KTM when his cadres over-ran asking
money from all kinds of people and taking action on those
who could not feed them money or Daal-Bhat-Masu ko Tarkari.
Its the reason Chinese Ambassador open his lips to say that
using "Maoists" does not bring Chinese sympathy and china
will not tolerate their access. Till then, peoples , even like me,
thought that chinese might help Maoists. The Chinese Amb.'s
words surely shattered the image of Maoists even further down,
and now its getting clear that Maoists are more or less run
by Indians to fulfill their needs.
HahooGuru
|
| Nepe |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 11:29 AM
HahooGuru, Your loathing on the brutality of some of Maoists ‘Jana Karbaahi’is well placed. I am not supporting their brutal ways. I am as much against it as you are. I am also equally amused by their method of sparing the rich and powerful. But, as you rightly pointed out it is the huge sum of ‘chandaa’ that is behind this anomaly. There are many other tactical practices of Maoists that are absolutely deplorable. But these are just tactical part of their story. As far as I understand, the major immediate objective of their revolution is to establish a republican Nepal. My empathy to Maoists is limited to this part. I also believe whatever Maoists dream about future, they can not go beyond this. Democracy has no alternatives.
So I was not blindly supporting Maoists, I was trying to understand them with wider perspective. I think Nepali intellectuals have badly failed to understand them. Since their insignificant origin, they have always surprised all of us making every forecast, calculation, estimation about them incorrect. Yes, all intellectuals, politicians and policy makers have badly failed to understand Maoists. Even after the emergency and army operations, all the forecast and expectation that Maoists will be wiped out within weeks proved wrong. They are there, heavily damaged but intact. Government is running out of money, time, confidence and conscience to defeat them. Nepali intelligentsia is once again is bewildered and confused. They have even not been able to figure out why in the world Maoists attacked royal army and started all this mess. I heard many intellectuals calling them stupid and found others theorizing the move based on the internal conflict of Maoists. I think we have once again failed to touch the pulse of Maoists. I will really like to hear from all our veteran and fresh posters about how do they understand Maoists. Because I too am confused. I am trying to understand them, but I am not sure if I have misunderstood them.
More to follow…
Nepe
|
| An Indun Poet |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 12:35 PM
My thoughts on some of your earlier comments:
Why Maoists would not touch people like Khum Bdr and Govinda Raj and the Rich people in the valley. Yes one certain thing is, they have helped finance the same Maoists who they despise publicly. I have heard some suggestions that Khum Bdr and the likes are acutally playing this perennial game- the match is fixed. Both sides win through this. Khum Bdrs can reap huge somes of commision on Arms and ammunition deals from the government and then the maoists leaders get to enjoy from the same pot. But I think these talks like these are true in some sense but not in a granduer of a design.
Maoists strategy is to come from the grass-roots. Khum Bdrs are not the immediate problem of the villagers in the remote areas-- its their jamindar's, sahu's who have been raping their daughters, charging as high as 72% interest on money loaned to the 'sojha-sajha' innocent people. Khum Bdrs are a prize for the maoists-- Khum Bdrs are what keeps Nepal in turmoil- where they can always pinpoint to the more educated urban public, when they need to (I think the time would be after they are successful in most part of the country). If you have ever read Maoist's weekly's or other newsprint(before the Emergency I might add), you will hardly see anything about specific corruption charges. This is because, its not their fight, or at least not yet. People's frustration of the government is actually Maoists gain. So why would they go try and finish off Khum Bdrs.
Their attack on the RNA I think was a pre-planned attack. They want to test the government, maybe test themselves. They have had some loss, unlike before, but they haven't given up-- that is crystal clear with the recent fresh attacks.
Did some of you read one of the ex-Maoist who explained Maoists strategy- things seems to be happening like he said. It was on nepalitimes.com while ago. If you read that, you know Maoists ain't done yet. There is a long up-hill battle for the government.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 11:10 PM
Nepe Wrote:
I also believe whatever Maoists dream about future, they can not go beyond this. Democracy has no alternatives.
---
Maoism will not end there, where you, me and others might expect. But,
if this one party alone get success to that end, they will wipe out
all others like in Cambodia. The way Maoists behaved and slapped
the supports of people, in last Sept. by asking money from all
kinds of people by force, we can smell they will not end or close
the file there, but, will move much ahead to establish the Mao's
Nepal, and there will be no democracy or freedom that majortiy
of the peoples are enjoying. Like RB Thapa group within Maoist
tried to whitewash Prachanda's name and rewrite with RB Thapa
as Leader, the front line can not stop the force who got so
much success and just allow their opposition parties to rally
inside Nepal. Thats either only dream, or thats only a method
to screw educated but confused mass that "you will be there
don't worry... ", but behind the screen a long term game
plan is surely there to wipe out current non-supporters of
maoists. Its just illusion. If Maoists get success to establish
republic themselves alone with the help of arms, they will
be overwhelming support from underaged kids to wipe out
all those who look dummy and in capable to move with them,
as happened in Cambodia. Cambodia is a real proof of history
and it shows what can happen when a country is lead by
corrupts and thugs, and rural areas are not under the control
of govt. We are passing through the same stage as it
happened in Cambodia. "ARMS" is not path to destination
and if this path is followed, all intelectuals will be wiped
out step by step and there will be big gap between
leaders and followers, and that is what we call dictatorship.
Dictators have no word "freedom" in their dictionary, and
they have no word "successor building".
HahooGuru
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 11:20 PM
Mushraff of Pakistan, first replaced the govt. and then,
he became head of the state on his own. .... This is how
dictators rise, step by step. They talk on common
issues, and move ahead to get public support and
its how Mushraff got to the position of the head of
state. All peoples having access to arms will use
same method and similarly, Maoists will use "REPUBLIC"
issue to make publics on their side and keep on moving.
Next time they will move on GRJ and KBK, still they will
vow to keep democracy, as BRB said to Nepali times
"you will enjoy the democracy and freedom", and
peoples will keep such dream go on, and finally, once
Nepali Maoist Mushraff gets control of Nepali Army and
Police, they will declare the current situation does not
allow us to give you people the freedom and all those
who will shout for freedom will be executed in Dashrath
Rangasala infront of 25,000 peoples. Thats what
happen in china (a few years back I had seen a picture
in Time/Newsweek how peoples are executed in
Stadiums, just for minor clashes with local Polit bureau
leaders). Peoples with arms should never be
trusted.
I have nothing to say with the current war i.e.
war between Maoists and RNA, both of them
had arms and peoples with arms are fighting
with peoples with arms. While before RNA was
in action, Maoists with arms were fighting with
peoples without arms. Now, they are testing
each other. Whoever will win will be heros,
temporarily. In long run, coin may turn upside down.
HahooGuru
|
