| Username |
Post |
| Kancho |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 02:28 PM
Should Nepal support Freedom for Tibet? After meeting/talking about this issue with few of my Tibetan friends, I came to this conclusion.
If Tibet becomes an Independant country again, Nepal would suffer. Current Tibetan government-in-exile is in Dharmashala, India. When that government goes back to Tibet, it'd be "pura pura" pro India.
In that case, Nepal would be sourrounded by India and Pro-India Tibetan government. We'd lose our edge of playing China card against India and vice versa. So Nepal should not support "Free Tibet" movement.
Feel free to add/disagree/agree.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 03:02 PM
with all due respect to my many tibetan friends (and some of my family). I have heard from some Tibetan people and read a book on serfdom in Tibet (Idols on the Path) and not many would want to retrace back to that system and period.
Any other comments?
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| krishna |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 03:31 PM
At this time, I feel that Nepal would do better to free itself from its own problems, rather than tend to its northern neighbor's garden. That being said, Nepal has generally been kind to Tibetans who have settled in K-du and other areas of the country, even though I do not know whether it has benefited much from hosting them.
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| Thinker |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 03:39 PM
I sympathise with Tibetans who have suffered at the hands of the Chinese. Whille I am not too opinionated on the subject, I do support freedom for Tibet from Chinese occupation and tyrrany. I have many friends who are Tibetans and I empathize with them and the the pain they feel when they see their country and culture overrun by the Chinese.
Now that some one brought up the issue of Tibet I would be intersted to know what people think of the Tibtean community in Nepal and the US. Opinion among Nepalese seems divided over the Tibetan community - if people could share thier perceptions without starting a ethnic conflict , I'd love to listen to what you have to say.
On the positive side I think many Nepalese perceive Tibetans as hardworking people who have a strong sense of community. A peaceful community that is waging a non violent struggle for freedom.
On the flip side, many people see Tibetans as extremely communal and only sticking to other Tibetans while calling themselves Nepalese.
Please share your thoughts.
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| Kancho |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 04:07 PM
In the US Tibetan community is very vocal about their freedom movement.
But I haven't seen any Nepali comment about this. We might attend the Free Tibet concert(s) but we don't seem to have any concrete opinion on it.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 04:39 PM
you are wrong kancho
some of us do have opinions. The problem is if we voice them, we may not be politically correct. And maybe our very racist side would come out and many of us would not be comfortable with that.
:)
cheers
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 05:18 PM
I’m not known to be PC all the time, rather the opposite – here’s my take on this.
Tibetans might be vocal in their fight for freedom from China, but how many would willingly go back to Tibet if it were to gain it’s freedom? Most Tibetan people I know wouldn’t go back to (free)Tibet if their life depended on it. Call me a racist pig if you will (yes, I DO have Tibetan friends AND family members) but in my opinion Nepal has no business sticking up for Tibet, we’ve got enough problems of our own and can do without inviting any more. For a country the size of Nepal, haven’t we helped Tibetans enough already?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 10:49 PM
>I sympathise with Tibetans who have suffered at the hands of the Chinese.
I too. Why in the hands of the Chinese only ? Why not at the hands of Nepalese
police? You know how are they treated? What about at the hands of Indians?
>Whille I am not too opinionated on the subject, I do support freedom for Tibet
>from Chinese occupation and tyrrany.
I support Tibetans, but freedom? I don't. Chinese tyrrany? You are kidding. Tibetans sufferred most from Tibetans fiefdom before 1950.
> I have many friends who are Tibetans and I empathize with them and the the
>pain they feel when they see their country and culture overrun by the Chinese
It is anti-Chinese propaganda. You can say same about Nepalese govt also. Nepal
isn't doing well about Lumbini, is she?
I have visited almost all of the Tibet. I know people there want Dalai Lama back.
Most of the common people there were disgruntled with Chinese also. But that
doesn't mean Chinese are tyrranous. Chinese razed down the old houses and
religious places in cultural revolution era, but it was not in Tibet only. It was all over
the China. Now they are renovating every thing. Potala palace was just finished
renovating when I was there in 95.
Nepal's policy regarding Tibet is correct. We gave asylum to them, and we are
proud of our Tibetan population.But we can't antagonise our northern Neighbor.
We can't live all our life fighting with our neighbors.
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| Sunakhari |
Posted
on 10-Jan-02 11:07 PM
Biswo
I don't know if you can get your hands on the book I was talking about "IDOLS ON THE PATH" by T. Pemba. If you ever do, it is a fantastic read. And I'm not speaking about a LITERARY read , a factual one.
Neither is T. Pemba a writer, I think he is/was a doctor in Planter's Club Hospital in Darjeeling who wrote this memoir. Anyway, I may not have all my facts right but the book was lying around our house for years and I read it when I was in class five. Centuries ago. To those of you who find it -- please let me know! Thanks!
JDV: Believe me when I say I am NOT AT ALL PC and couldn't care to be at this age. I find being PC rather hypocritical of my innermost feelings and at my age, I'm more about having a small group of friends who admire my brazen ways than a whole bunch of chan gedi sabai meri chainan gedi sabai tedi. :) Tried being this and that - eventually I am ME and that feels good :) anyway - this could be a whole different thread gosh...don't we wander.
Coming back to Tibetans - someone once said - hardworking and kind and hospitable they are and MORE but will they go back to Tibet??? ummmmm NOT our peers. Maybe their grandparents. Would my children opt to go back to Nepal and start life a la Nepalese style all over again - I can safely say - NO.
Bujney lai shirikhanda...nabujney lai ....call me!!!
:)
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 04:12 AM
Dear all,
I don't see the whole point of this discussion. I mean, when was Tibet FREE, and when was it annexed by China? People who are for FREE TIBET should realize that TIBET was never EVER a FREE country. It belonged to China from time immemorial (for more on this read books by credible american historians/nepali historians). If that's not enough, read his holiness's speech which got him the nobel peace prize. There he clearly states that he is not fighting for the independence of Tibet. I'll post some more on this later but in the meantime, i ask you --those who are interested--to read "Seven Years in Tibet" to get a clear picture of Tibet before 1959. Then you'll know the TRUTH which was deliberately hidden in the movie just to demonize China.
Trailokya
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 07:49 AM
TA jee,
It seems your studies in China influenced you a lot to
stamp out that "People who are for FREE TIBET should
realize that TIBET was never EVER a FREE country."
I will rather say the current China was never China,
nor in future it will continue to be as big as now. Its
just a matter of time. Right now, the chinese power
is under the control of almost all authorities from East China
and when they will start extend their freedom from
current economic freedom to political freedom, then,
Tibet will be free. My question will be on those Tibetans
who left Tibets and are now rallying for free Tibet,
will not like to return to the Tibet and make it a
better country. I am rather afraid that Tibet may
turn out to be a country like most of the African nations
where European made infrastructures are now under crisis,
and almost at the verge of collapse because of lack of money
and technical resource to keep them under working
condition.
Why do I make such predictions? In Nepal's case too,
in 1990, many Nepalis living abroad made a lot of hue
and cry over Panchayat system and Panchayat system
collapsed, but, none of the countable Nepalis who
had better education, better experince, better management
skill returned, except they made a lot of games against
Panchayat, and what Nepalis got? Just another bunch
of hungry peoples who became another set of corrupts.
Under such conditions, my question will be "Which is one
is better for Tibetans? Under Eastern Chinese Control
or under Tibetan'S control, but, without lack of
resources? If I had to vote, I will vote for second
option, i.e. Tibet should be free, and let Tibetans
run their country, and in a few decades they will
generate their own resouces and run the country
using sustainable methods.
TA jee, China ma padhya bhandai ma China Prati
kritagya hunu parla jasto lagdaina? If thats true,
should I be obedient servent of Indians, just because
I studied in India for 4 years. Certainly NOT.
HahooGuru
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 01:08 PM
namaste and ni hao hahoo laoshi (guru),
You are right, i don't have to show my "kritagyata" towards china just because i studied there, but I can't twist the facts, can i? And I stand firm on my statement that TIbet was never ever a free country. And, I studied in China for just 5 months, rest of the time, I was at a college in the US,w here i learned more about China from the white-liberal-american profs.
Second, china was never so big as it is now, but certainly the idea of an unified country was there even during the reign of Qin Shi Huang Di (almost 2100 years ago). By the Tang dynasty Tibet was already under chinese control. And in Yuan (mongol) dynasty, Dalai lama was appointed as the spiritual leader of Tibet by the emperor in Beijing. If you want to go before then, then during the Sui-Tang dynasty, Shren Chong Gompo was appointed governer of Tibet. Even to this day, we refer to him as "samanta" (regent) not emperor. So, a big China which was envisioned by Qin Shi Huang Di got picked up by the rulers of later dynasties, and going through historical records, we can say that Tibet was ubnder the chinese control/influence even in the 8th century.
Now, whetheror or not China will remain as big as it is now, I can say that China will remain big even after the power transfomation and full democratization because the chinese have been very successful in creating a homogeneous population in the last 50 years. So, whether the power is in Shanghai, Beijing or Lhasa, China will remain unified.
China's foreign and security policies are aimed at preserving its terretorial integrity, and the Chinese have done a good job on making policies to keep china united. And MARK MY WORDS, TIbet will never be a free country even after 50 years.
And hohallajee, people who are rallying for free tibet are what pearl buck says "in the summer I am a nudist, in the winter I am a buddhist" types, who know nothing about Tibet. Don't worry, Tibet won't turn out to be another Sierra Leone or Mozambique, it will develop and prosper like Shnaghai and Beijing.
I don't think many people who rally for Tibet are yet to undrstand his holiness's message. If he is not asking for FREE tibet, then why should others who ahve never been to Tibet or know anything about Tibet bother?
Trailokya
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| Trailoky |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 01:20 PM
namaste and ni hao hahoo laoshi (guru),
You are right, i don't have to show my
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| Orion |
Posted
on 11-Jan-02 02:41 PM
Here's my take - I support basic religious freedom and human rights for Tibetans - pretty much what the Dalai Lama is asking for. As far as total independence goes, at this point even the the Dalai Lama isn't asking for it and not being a Tibetan myself I am not too passionate either about the subject. But if someone feels Tibet should be independent and can give me good reasons, I would be more than willing to hear the person out.
Regards.
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