| Username |
Post |
| rajendra |
Posted
on 08-Dec-00 03:51 PM
From The NepaliTimes
A Xinhua report from Beijing last week said Mount Everest is shrinking as a result of global warming. Scientists from the Chinese State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping said they had discovered that snow on the peak of Everest has thinned in the past 30 years. The Chinese researchers also discovered that Everest was moving between 2.4 and 2.8 inches at an azimuth angle of 54 degrees [northeast] every year! Surveys over the past 30 years show that changes have occurred in the area through crustal vertical movement, and experts said that these changes have resulted from a large rupture on the northern side of the mountain. Research also showed that the changes corresponded to different seismological periods.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 08-Dec-00 04:25 PM
Hi Rajendra:
Don't want to be presumptious, but I just thought it would be
useful for you to know that:
a.A lot of people are confused over what is the height of Mt
Everest? Is this the rock in the height or the snow cap?
Snow fall in the height is ,surprisingly,tenacious and remains
there until the start of winter when the strong gait of wind
blows it off.So, a lot of people who climb the summit may be
climbing 1 or 2 meter more than 8848 meters if they climb in
summer, and less if they climb in winter.
When I was travelling in Tibet, in Xinjiang-Tibet highway,I
found how strangely arduous it is to go just one or two meter
above the height on which you are standing.No wonder there
are several climbers who missed the height by only some tweny
meters/thirty meters.
b.To assuage your fear, NASA study last year(by two JPL scientist)
showed the height to be 8850 meters, but the study was conducted
on May,1999.This height is approved by both US and Chinese
official agencies.Again, as you can guess, if the same study is
conducted in late September ,the height will again come down
by a meter or two.
Since we have very few to be proud of, Everest remains as vital
element in our national laurels, and loss of its status an
unthinkable prospect.But,please don't worry about that,it is
going to be highest mountain until we have something else to be
proud of!!
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 08-Dec-00 05:10 PM
>>when the strong gait of wind
blows it off.
Sorry,I wanted to write gale instead of gait.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 08-Dec-00 05:10 PM
>>when the strong gait of wind
blows it off.
Sorry,I wanted to write gale instead of gait.
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| rajendra |
Posted
on 08-Dec-00 06:47 PM
I believe the height of Everest is the cumulative height as when you stand atop it. That includes the snow (long-term), ice or rock. When the National Geographic Society measured it recently, they put satellite receivers at the summit, without digging out the dirt or the snow.
However, I do have my own skepticism over the reports on the height of Everest though. The Chinese say it's decreased few years ago, then then the National Geographic Soceity agreed about a decrease in 1998. The latest National Geographic Soceity study in 1999 has put it at 8850m. Since this is the latest measurement, it is probably the most authoritative. And it gives us a reason to be a prouder of, albeit temporary or not!
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 08-Dec-00 09:21 PM
Interestingly enough,there is a Chinese patriotic song which used
to be played frequently in CCTV(China Central TV) in 1999:
...
...We have Great Wall..
..And we also have great Zhumolangma(Chinese for Mt Everest)..
..We are great Chinese people..etc
..
I think it is human achievement for which we should be more proud
of ,not the natural occuring,which are,actually, just a matter
chance!!
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 12:15 AM
>...We have Great Wall..
>..And we also have great Zhumolangma(Chinese
>for Mt Everest)..
>..We are great Chinese people..etc
Bishowji,
Doesn't the chinese Shi Kuai (Ten Yuan) bill have Mt Everest on its back?
Trailokya
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 12:34 AM
Trailokyaji:
Please look at this page:
http://www.teleport.com/~randyj/money/mochxyn.jpg
Doesn't the figure in the back of the 10 Yuan look like
Mt Everest from the Tibetan side?
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| rajendra |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 11:17 AM
Well, I guess it's technically fair for the Chinese to claim "we
have Everest" as it is for us Nepalis, because technically, the peak of the Everest marks the border between Nepal and China (Tibet).
What is unfair, unaccurate and unsettling is when the Indians do it or when some Western maps depict Mt. Everest in Indian territory.
How come one hardly hears of India claiming the K-2 (largely attributed to being in Pakistan), although it happens to be in the Indian territory, now occupied by Pakistan! Could it be because Pakistan is much larger and more aggresive than Nepal?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 08:38 PM
Did Mahendra just gave up Mt Everest in exchange of some lousy
Tibetan hinterlands or what?Is there anyway we can take it back
from our benign neighbor?(I think it is too naive to hope so..)
I understand the reasons behind Mahendra's surrendering.As India
was governed by colonialists who were gobbling up all small
princely states of South Asia,he had no other way but to cultivate favor
from northern neighbor which was also in dire need of friends.
Remember that we are among first set of nations to recognize
People's Republic of China led by Mao,not that Kuomintang govt
of Taiwan(Pharmosa).
It is not only Mahendra,however,even Girija sirija also feels very
comfortable to give up national lands to neighboring countries for
a five years cozy tenureship in Baluwatar!What can we do,
especially when jo aguwa uhi baato haguwaa bhayepachhi..
regards!
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| dumdum |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 09:35 PM
It is normal that Mahendra,who didn't have mandate,gave up
Nepali land to reinforce his control in Nepal.
But it is bemusing that Girija,a popularly mandated PM,also gave
up Nepali land to keep his throne!!
Looks like we are having puppets only in any forms.
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 11:22 PM
Namaste Biswoji,
Yes, the mountain on the back of Shi Kuai (ten Yuan) is indeed of that of Mt Everest!
I don't remember the whole song, but there's a song in China that says, China.. land of Mt Everest! etc.
Re: Mahendra and Everest- I think the opposite happened. Nepal gave away Tingri Maidan to the Chinese in exchange for Mt. Everest and when Chou En Lai visited nepal he told nepali journalists that "everest belongs to nepal" (or something like this). For more on this, please read (at your convenience, Tshering Shakya's groundbreaking book, Dragon in the land of snows- A history of Modern Tibet, 1947 -present).
Good luck with your thesis!
Trailokya
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 11:52 PM
>Namaste Biswoji,
>
>Yes, the mountain on the back of Shi Kuai (
>ten Yuan) is indeed of that of Mt Everest!
Please read the line as :
Yes, the mountain on the back of Shi Kuai (ten Yuan) is indeed Mount Everest.
Sorry for the error- I guess, I was typing without thinking.
Trailokya Aryal
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Dec-00 11:53 PM
Oh,Trailokyaji,I didn't know that we actually acquired it.The
detail of our history is too murky to comprehend,you know!,at
least for those who are not the student of history.All along
I believed we were coerced to give up our land in favor of
chinese ashirbad..
Two things reinforced my belief,which I think I can share with
you,
1.Chen Yun,who came to Nepal in 2019 when banned Nepali Congress
was all set to topple Nepali government by staging armed uprising
with obvious connivance of Indian government, and while in Asian
perspective,the futility of 'Hinda-Chin Bhai Bhai' slogan was
being slowly realised with the spasm and intermittent border
skirmishes between India and China,declared in Kathmandu news
conference that 'China will consider any attack on Nepal as
directed against China itself and will help Nepal in safeguarding
its sovereignity'.(As a Chinese study major,you can however debate
howmuch China could help us at the time when it was just cleaning
shrapnels of Korean war bombs in its backyards..)
2.Zhou,the really benign Chinese leader that both of us admire,
accompanied Mahendra in all his 7 day tour of China(Wasn't it
7 day tour?) like a junior minister does , furthermore Mao
not only welcomed Mahendra in Beijing airport,but also recieved
Mahendra in Beijing Airport transit when Mahendra was back from
his visit to Mongolia.Visiting foreign dignitary in airport is
a great thing,man!
So,all along I just thought these guys were mollycoddling our
king just to scrounge something.Mt Everest could be a nice target!
bu she ma?
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 12:45 AM
Dear Biswoji,
Good Points.
1-As a chinese studies major, I will say China wouldn't have come to nepal's rescue in 2019 because, China was, as you say , cleaning the Korean War mess and in 2019, we didn't have a good relationship with China. China didn't trust mahendra because of mahendra's policy of letting Tibetans in nepal do whatever they wnated. Remember it was one year after Birendra Sarkar's rajyabhisek , the RNA went to mustang to put an end to the Khampa activities~!
2- I think Chinese leaders gave Mahendra a grand welcome because (i might be wrong, please correct me on this one) they were happy that the "seemingly India-tilted govt of BP koirala"had been ousted by the King. As far as I can see, the Chinese leaders, could have thought, we could use Mahendra to do certain things and (again, as far as I can think) was to curb the Tibetan activities in Nepal.
.... In the early 1960s the relationship between Nepal and China was uneasy. The border border between the two countries covering the world's highest mountains stretched over 500 miles and had nevr been fixed in modern cartographic tradition. There was conflict about Mt Everest, which at one time Beijing claimed was part of China, setting off the first anti- Chinese demonstration in Kathmandu. It was only after Zhou Enlai's public announcement that china would agree to division along the peak of the mountain that nepalese fears about Chinese terretorial claims were allayed......
This could be seen as a diplomatic tactic....
[shakya, Tshering :the dragon in the land of snows, columbia Uni press, 1999]
tyasile mero bichar ma Boiswo ji, Zhou wnated nepal to support China and it's claims over Tibet, that's why he went to say that Mt. Everest belongs to nepal (or is common... howbere you want to interpret it)..
tyasile.. ke shi wo ye bu zhi dao what really happened!
Trailokya Aryal
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 01:27 AM
Trailokyaji:
I guess the Sin-Nepalese relationship has been ,anyway,mutually
beneficial.While agreeing to your points, I may put forward some
of my points also.
The turning point in modern Sino-Nepalese diplomatic relationship
was the mutual recognition of both countries to each other when
both gravely lacked that.
The relationship was surely cemented by Nepal's relentless push
for Chinese membership and expulsion of Taiwan from UN when Nepal
was an influential player in UN.The capping stone came from king
Birendra who ,perhaps very unhumanly ,crushed the Khampa uprising
in Mustang.
No wonder Birendra remains the most trusted Chinese ally in
Nepal.Actually,I think public opinion is also proChinese in
Nepal,though most of the Nepalese can't name more than five
cities of China.
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| Mabi |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 09:36 AM
Hi,
Mr. BN Shresthas newly released book "Nepal Ko Simana" details the chinese claim of Mt. Everest.
Regards
Mabi
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 04:04 PM
Hi Mabi:
Didn't hear about the writer before,and is the book in Nepali?
Most of my knowledge about previous political things came from
Grishma Bahadur Devkota's 'Nepal Ko Rajnaitik Darpan',which is
a really really good and most collected book series.
He writes facts,and we need to extrapolate from the book,though.
However,I understand that it is very difficult to get Nepali
book while you are away from Nepal.
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| Mabi |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 07:12 PM
Hi Biswo,
I have three copies of the book. I can post you one if you give me your address or call me at 617-868-2343.
Mabi
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 07:28 PM
Hi Mabi:
That's great! And I have some literature books from Nepal(I have
to go back to home and make sure what I have now,I remember I
brought a few of Nepali classics while coming to US)which I can
send to you.
I shall appreciate it if you post your emailaddress here.The one
I got from Help Nepal Network site doesn't work,I just tried to
send you an email to inform that Mishraji has incorrectly written
in 'FAQ' of HeNN that
I can vouch for impeachable credential of (Arun,Nepal
coordinator)
I don't know how is Arun,but surely Mishraji didn't mean to write
that way.Most probably he meant 'unimpeachable'credential..The
'contact us' of the website was not working, and there was
virtually no way to inform them..
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 10-Dec-00 11:34 PM
.....perhaps very unhumanly ,
>crushed the Khampa uprising
>in Mustang.
Dear Bishowji,
Good points:
But the Khampa uprising needed to be crushed and as far as I know, Nepal govt asked the Khampa leaders to surrender before sending the army. But, the khampas didn't and it was necessary to use force. Furtehrmore, the Khampas instead of surrendering, started attacking the army, so nothing UMHUMAN as far as i see it. (just my views)
>
....
>Nepal,though most of the Nepalese can't name
>more than five
>cities of China.
I agree!
Trailokya
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Dec-00 02:54 AM
Hi Trailokyaji:
Sadly I have never read any authoritative documentation on Khampa
uprising except some passing references in some other books.
(Interestingly, there is one reference in "The night train to
Kathmandu" also,as long as I remember..)So,it is solely from
an account of an irate Tibetan that I guessed the crushing
should have very severe,and perhaps unhuman.
From national perspective,it was 100%right thing to do.We
can't allow our land to be used against any of our neighbors,
and allowing armed resistance from our own land is just a foolish
thing to do diplomatically and socially.I was just wondering
if we went too far in crushing them..
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 11-Dec-00 03:39 AM
Dear Bishowji,
Again Tshering Shakya's book has some referense to the Khampa uprising. If I were to believe him, and I see no reason why I shouldn't-
Kind Mahendra let the Tibetans carry out things in Nepal, but Birendra Sarkar was cautious enough to not to sour our relkationship with China.
When the nepal govt. officially asked the khampas to surrender, the Khampas didn't surrender. HMG made 3 appeals to the Khampa leaders in 3 months but still, the Khampas wouldn't listen. Once the khampas even tried to hide their rifles and surrenderd 21 rifles saying that was what they had. And by this time Mustang was turning into a rebel training ground.
When the Army went there in 1973, again the Nepali govt asked the khampas to surrender, they didn't. Instead, they started attacking our troops. So, what could the troops do? defend themselves, right? That's what they did, and many khampas were killed-but no one can possibely say that Khampas weren't asked to surrender until the last minute. And there was nothing inhuman considering what goes on elsewhere.
Trailokya Aryal
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Dec-00 01:24 AM
Hi Trailokyaji:
As per Khampa rebellion,isn't this true that Dalai Lama himself
asked the Khampa's to surrender the arm in 1973?As long as I
remember he made some kind of public appeal for that.
Since Chinese intrusion of Tibet occured in 1959(Deng was the boss
for this,haina?),but as official first assistance to Khampa by CIA
started in 1958-lots of Nepalese know the infamous CIA armdrop-I
think Chinese does have some justification for their intrusion.
In my visit to Tibet,and in my study of Dalai Lama's interviews,
I found in one thing:Chinese has elevated economic standard of
Tibet,though the religious practices haven't been encouraged.As of
lately,since China has no problem with practitioners of religions,
Tibetans are relatively free to practice their religion as long
as they don't engage in subversive activities.
But freedom and nationality is most for everybody,and also for
Tibetans.I am not supporter of Tibetan independance,but they
really want that,and I can express my sympathy for them.Hope
next time,they will get it in their own,not by depeding on
the help of treacherous orgnaization like CIA.Amen.
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 12-Dec-00 03:39 AM
>Hi Trailokyaji:
>
>As per Khampa rebellion,isn't this true that
>Dalai Lama himself
>asked the Khampa's to surrender the arm in 19
>73?As long as I
>remember he made some kind of public appeal
>for that.
Namaste Bishwoji,
This discussion is indeed getting interesting!
I also think that. Though, I haven't read many of his holiness's books/interviews or know anything about him, I remember somewhere reading about his appeal, but the Khampas were adamant on not surrendering. As a result, our army had to intervene "rahar-le hoina kaar-le".
>Since Chinese intrusion of Tibet occured in 1
>959(Deng was the boss
>for this,haina?),but as official first
>assistance to Khampa by CIA
>started in 1958-lots of Nepalese know the
>infamous CIA armdrop-I
>think Chinese does have some justification
>for their intrusion.
Yes, Deng was the "man-incharge for handling the Tibet" then. And yes, because of some early mistakes in "others" part, the CCP was able to spread the imperialist-threat propaganda to justify it''s action(s) in Tibet.
>In my visit to Tibet,and in my study of
>Dalai Lama's interviews,
>I found in one thing:Chinese has elevated
>economic standard of
>Tibet,though the religious practices haven't
>been encouraged.As of
>lately,since China has no problem with
>practitioners of religions,
>Tibetans are relatively free to practice
>their religion as long
>as they don't engage in subversive
>activities.
I agree. Tibet has changed a lot. If you read Henerich Harrer's Seven years in Tibet, he mentions that there was not a single hospital in Tibet in the 50s and the Dalai lama's feasies were used as medicine. I am not saying this, the Chinese govt is not saying this, but Mr Harrer is saying this, so I see no reason is in not believing him!
Re: subversive activities, I guess every state has its rights to protect it's terretorial integrity and domestic peace and we shouldn't comment on other's "internal" matters.
>
>But freedom and nationality is most for
>everybody,and also for
>Tibetans.I am not supporter of Tibetan
>independance,but they
>really want that,and I can express my
>sympathy for them.Hope
>next time,they will get it in their own,not
>by depeding on
>the help of treacherous orgnaization like
>CIA.Amen.
I don't think that Tibetans are demanding independence. If you carefully read his holiness's speech at the European Parliament and at Yale University and at other places, he clearly says "We are not fighting for an INDEPENDENT Tibet. All We want is a true autonomy". If his holiness the dalai lama (tenzing Gyatso) represents all Tibetans (as it is claimed), then his statement is to be seen as reflecting the sentiments of all Tibetans.
There have been secret negotiations going on between China and Tibet and I sincerely hope that the new series of negotiations will bring an end to this "problem". Amen!
Trailokya
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