| Username |
Post |
| Nhuchche |
Posted
on 16-Jan-02 04:07 PM
We all hear of people getting americanized. What exactly is getting americanized? At what point can you say that someone is americanized.
Do you know any Nepali who's americanized? Why do you say they are americanized?
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| Voodoo Nut |
Posted
on 16-Jan-02 05:56 PM
This is one of the main reason for depression. You can't help not becoming 'americanized' in this culture. As they say "in Rome, act like a Roman". If you can't act like a roman in rome you'll be left out. But if you do become a little americanized in your way of life, do you suffer from any negative consequences?
For most Nepalese people who've been in the US nearly half their life, Americanization is a difficult process. What values of american culture do you want to embrace? What Nepalese values do you give up? Can you give up all Nepalese values?
Can you give up your family values? Can you give up on the responsibility you have towards your parents and family back home? Can you grow out of your Hindi movie type mentality on your relationships?
There are no right way to do it really. But what you choose to do will be affecting your future in one way or other. Simple looking decisions you make right now may come back and haunt you for the rest of your lives. One good example is HIV: You're young, you're wreckless, you wanna have fun right now. I don't blame you. You're working 24-7 trying to pay for your tuitions and have a little fun on the side - which is not too often. So you don't care for that condom on your willy. Now couple of years down the road, when you're actually done with school, making a decent paycheck and suddenly you find you have HIV. Now wouldn't that be a bummer? Everything you've believed in is over in a jiffy. You don't feel that invincible anymore.
I digress but the moral of the story is live each day like it's your last day but make sure you have something in place for tomorrow in case you make it to tomorrow.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 16-Jan-02 09:27 PM
One informal observation:
In Kathmandu,
If you can think on your own
If you can give clear reasons for your own thoughts
If you can (respectfully) disagree with your elders and seniors after havng quietly listened to their points of thoughts,
Then you are considered to be, well, "Americanized".
Elders and seniors are more offended that you as a junior do not agree
with them lock, stok and barrel than by the validity of your points.
I find it ironic that our elders and seniors want us to do our very best at
American universities (and at those universities you do your best often by using your own mind and perhaps even by learning to disagree with your professors). But once you come back to Nepal, our elders and seniors don't want that your mind to disagree with them!!
It requires -- as I am learning slowly but surely -- subtle and smooth "political/social/emotional skills", so to speak, to get your
points across without ruffling feathers and without appearing as some
brash young Amerianized Nepali guy!!
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| _BP |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 03:12 AM
Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the
mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the
Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the
lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 09:43 AM
I couldn't agree more with Ashu. The three years I spent in Kathmandu were probably the toughest and longest three years of my life. Being an outspoken individual who isn’t afraid to voice my opinion or disagree with those who are senior to me in both age and position, you can imagine the number of feathers I ruffled. It was particularly hard as I had to work with the Under-Secretaries of various Ministries. In my books, a person doesn’t automatically gain respect simply because he/she is older or is professionally on a higher rung than I; respect needs to be EARNED. The fact that these HMGN officials were always trying to milk my office (I worked at the UN) for everything they could get away with certainly didn’t make me any fonder of them. Everyone told me I had a superior attitude and that I needed to learn to ‘jhuknu’ in front of my seniors. I don’t deny I had a superior attitude, but hell, I’d have a superior attitude with anyone who stalled the progress of my projects simply because I refused to loan them a UN vehicle so that their wives could go shopping. The appalling fact is, EVERY HMGN employee I ever came across was corrupt, some in more subtle ways than others but still corrupt. I have nothing but contempt and disgust for these people, and to hell with them being my seniors.
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| Voodoo Nut |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 10:30 AM
If you are half n half then you will find a way to get your point across without offending the senior person.
It would be especially hard for a female person though. Because our society is very male dominated. A young male can probably weave his words around to make the senior male understand and follow his ideas, but a young female probably would not be able to do that since it would hurt the senior gentleman's ego.
I wouldn't blame him though. It's years of conditioning in the Nepalese society. What is to blame is the system. The politics. The top dogs. Blame is all anyone can do since we know law can't touch them. they will always find a way to get out of any situations and still be the rulers. So in the end there's nothing we can do about it except to leave the country and migrate elsewhere.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 10:35 AM
Americanized for us Nepalese would mean many things, a couple of which I can think of right away in my self-timed 15 minute break hehehe:
1. Eating burgers (hehe most burgers are beef for those non-beef eating walas)
2. Letting your wife wear jeans
3. Giving other people the impression that yes your wife DOES have a say in every matter.
4. Letting your wife cut her hair short
5. Making sure you husband gets all the game-viewing time in the world
6. Making sure that you keep up-to-date with all the products' names/brand names out there just so you can make an impression on other women!
7. Telling the whole world how much you exercise and what tapes you are following to keep yourself healthy and trim.
8. Making sure everyone knows that you are going back home and that you are flying via this and that country and making SURE people know how expensive the tickets are :).
9. Now the young men: Visiting all the nude bars and proclaiming w/o any shame about this (please note that only men and young boys who cannot have/maintain a normal relationship here OR only the sick men of this society here would frequent bars as such)
10.Young gals: Wearing outrageous MTVish clothes and not realizing that JLO would rather be caught dead that wearing that outlandish, sleazy top in public!
GOSH I could go on and on and on...
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| smp |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 11:37 AM
agree with ashu completely. through first hand experience as well as experience recounted by friends.
sunakhari, can't help chuckle at your point number 9 especially your comments inside the parentheses. especially in light the phenomenon called the bachelor party that almost every soon-to-be-groom engages in and that almost certainly involves strips clubs or strippers. geez, these days that seems to be a fad for bridal showers as well. so by the virtue of your argument, most of them cannot hold normal relationships or are sick.
for me, being americanized is holding dear values indentified with being an american. individuality, independence, freedom of ideas and expressions, and drive to pursue individual dreams to name a few.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 11:48 AM
smp:
You are right. The fad these days is getting sicker and sicker ;). Not many of my friends have been all-too happy with this and have even requested their groom-to-be that this not take place. So it all depends on what kind of people we are talking about.
I was chiefly referring to OUR young men who think that every American male does that on a casual basis and therefore, tend to brag about it more or frequent these places regularly. All in the name of Americanization.
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| Mahesh |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 02:01 PM
How 'bout the folks who accidently start developing this twang after being here a couple o months. All of a sudden even their Nepali(mothertongue) starts to sound a little foreign as well. There isn't a big populations of thse rare species out there but they are out there. They also value the freedom of speech while blubbering jibberish. What about them ? How do we define them ?
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 02:19 PM
hahahah yes and they also ACCIDENTALLY forget their Nepalese grammar!
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 02:25 PM
Didn't you know, they are define them as DhobikoKukkuranized.
I met this guy in Alabama, Harry (you can easily guess what his actual is/was). He was constantly saying "hami nepal hunda" and his Nepali was pretty funny. After the conversation, I asked a friend of mine 'So,for how long is this Harry dude is the US? was he born here?". At this my friend smiles and says, "ye tyo @$%& harry, dui barsa bho yaar america aako...dikka parisakyo".
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 02:28 PM
Correction:
Didn't you know, they are defined as DhobikoKukkuranized.
I met this guy in Alabama, Harry (you can easily guess what his actual name is/was). He was constantly saying "hami nepal hunda" and his Nepali was pretty funny. After the conversation, I asked a friend of mine 'So,for how long is this Harry dude is the US? was he born here or what?". At this my friend smiles and says, "ye tyo @$%& harry, dui barsa bho yaar america aako...dikka parisakyo".
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| Voodoo Nut |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 02:43 PM
I've always been perplexed how few Nepalese are so good at getting the 'twang' and some aren't. I've been here for a decade and yet I have a regular accent - not the american twang, but some other guys/gals who've been here less than 3 years get a major twang. How is that possible? Are some people smarter than others? Or are they better at copying, or are they good at faking it?
The american twang is nothig compared to the colored lingua some people use around here. Things suddenly become THANGS and you start rappin tha shiznitz up. It's all in good fun though I suppose.
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| chupacabra |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 03:03 PM
hamlai pani dikkei layo SAM ra CHRIS le...
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| deamericanized |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 03:16 PM
Talking about being Americanized, I was deamericanized back in Nepal itself, even before I came here.
In one incident, I met one of my friends who had come from the US for a vacation. Let me tell you that I was very, very let down. Damn, he was the same. He had not changed a single bit from the last time I saw him. Dont know what exactly i had expected, perhaps something like our hair will start getting little more blonder, or we may start looking somewhat like Brad Pitt.. or dont know exactly what.. But never ever had I thought that there would be no change. or such a little change.
And yeah, then the last straw. One day, I met another ex student of my high school, many years senior to me. He had come after many years. And you know what were the first words I heard uttered from him? Well, it was... " Kyaa hun to ni?" or something like that in a typical, very typical, Nepali accent. And there vanish my dream of ousting Steve Cabb, the famous foreign RJ of Kantipur FM, and taking over his job with my acquired great accent, all into the thin air.
And even now, I know that I have not being "Americanized." At least I dont think so. I feel that it is not entirely necessary to merge into others' culture and perception. You should rather make them see our point of views on different matters. Yeah, we should come to a compromising point somewhere in the middle at times, but not give into others entirely. We should always maintain "the us", ie our own selfs rather than letting it be taken over by " THE US "
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 04:02 PM
chupacabra,
Tyahi ta bhanya hai, Sam ra Kris (Chris) ta chhyas chyasti nai chhan bhanya..... Euta drama thiyoni NTV ma.... Tirtha Mani Kuinkel Timothy bhako...
A guy comes to the US in his late 20s or early 30s (spending almost all those years in Nepal) and does not know how to speak Nepali? c'mon! Jibro bhari khatira aako jasto garera bolera ryag garira bhanya....
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 04:12 PM
Gosh I can get my frustrations out here about a couple of people who bug me to the hilt!!!
Okay granted they have worked their hineys off to make something of themselves BUT does that entitle them to snub people or to totally take everything the high way???
On top of it, they pretend they have forgotten Nepali.
Bwanngaiiiii hanyo bhaney ta amaaaaaa bhaneyra nai ta karaucha hola..ki khoi mommmmm bhancha ki --- yiniharu ko ta bhar chaina.
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| chupacabra |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 04:21 PM
i can understand people forgetting not frequently used words....like...namlo..damlo.or whatever..but they can't lose their jibro...like my friend who's married to a kheirey. dyam ki dyam hannu parchha dhadma.
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| Ikus |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 04:27 PM
Americanized ... very high concept ... it means, in my mind, free to think what you want ... does not mean that others, including your elders have to agree with you. People that think that they know it all seem to think, "We came to Amrika. We went to school in Amrika. We learned to think independently in Amrika...". When these people go back to Nepal, they expect the elders and everyone else to be like people in Amrika.
They expect people to say "ooohoo babu Amrika bata aaunubhayeko ... katti chalakh hunu huncha hamro babu. Saab thaha cha whalai ... ". Well I have news for you guys and gals. Don't expect that. If you want to be respected and be heard by your elders, learn to respect first and learn to listen first.... then you will have earned the respects of the Elders and you WILL be listened to ...
Don't put the onus on your elders to understand you ... attempt to understand them and their thought process ... after all you are the Amrika educated smarty!
That's all folks ... as the famous Amrikan would say.
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| NK |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 04:29 PM
really you two. you are making too much of this americanized accent. Give them a break. if that is the only way they could feel they are experiencing the real america then so be it. so beat it! (shall i put some of my smiley faces? nah!)
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 04:58 PM
Yeah! NK, so be it. As Chupacabra says, "..dyam ki dyam hannu parchha dhadma." Yeah! give them a break [but we got to be real careful...if they don't have the insurance and we know this after giving a break in their dhad then dyam ki dyam comes back to us....:-) ]
Ok! I am out of here.
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| Sfengali |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 05:46 PM
Having a big head is probably a common ailment of the human kind. Whitewashing yourself in US or remaining a gung ho gorkhay seems only to inflict certain people who have this "holier than thou" or in this case "More hard core than you" attitude. I do not think the questions asks too much. All it demands is that you be a little more flexible and recognize the cultural nuances without being judgmental. why do discussion of cross cultural necessarily have to go as one holding their own and condescending the other?
I find it natural that in the growth process of a Nepali person a degree of cynicism towards the way things are run back home. So some suspend that mentality and focus on their talents and abilities to do whatever it is they like to do. Others try to sort it out and end up instead in a never ending ringamarole of sociological analysis.
Point is why does cultural reformation always have to follow the western trajectory of development? I am not sure speed and efficiency and a superbly mechanized world is necessarily the road we want. I think that is how we change because we have to adapt to this world. What used to be compassion, comaraderie, are now the high of personal success and the thrill of being in the game (whatever intellectual/ business). Superstition and resistance to change has been transplanted by avarice, discontentment I could find other adjectives !
On the one hand it appears you cannot avoid America style capitalism and it is going to end up changing the world. On the other hand its only a matter of willing it and not try to get overwhelmed by the enormity of the machine that faces us. like the wizard of OZ.
So in the end it just comes down to really being in a unique position. The pessimist says no matter where you turn you are screwed because people and the system is equally fuc ked up. The optiomist says well hold on tiger don't be judgmental. JUST BE. Right there.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 08:44 AM
NK
like it has been proven before here, its a good place to get frustrations out of all kind ;). Mine is of a very curable nature :).
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| NK |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 11:55 AM
This is a true story:
A woman marries a tourist whom she meets in Swayambhu. He with a Nikon, she in her fine kurta suuruwal. Love at firstt sight. They get married within a week in Kathmandu.
Three years later she comes back to Nepal for a visit with a dhokro bhari gifts. She smokes like a chimney (she did not use to smoke before) and comes to her kitchen to help out her mother. She is wearing shorts while smoking yak. Her 65 year old father is mortified. One day she sees a big farsi ( pumpkin) in a corner of the kitchen and takes it to her veranda and starts to wash with soap and water while her parents look at her puzzled. She explains the ripen farsi from their bari is very dirty. The neighbor watches curiously and asks her husband to join in.
After a few days her father just cannot stand all those smoke and her shorts and boob showing halter top. He asks her to leave his home immediately while calling her a “whore.” To him she was way too “Amrikanized” for his taste.
I leave the judgment to dear readers.
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| NK |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 11:55 AM
This is a true story:
A woman marries a tourist whom she meets in Swayambhu. He with a Nikon, she in her fine kurta suuruwal. Love at firstt sight. They get married within a week in Kathmandu.
Three years later she comes back to Nepal for a visit with a dhokro bhari gifts. She smokes like a chimney (she did not use to smoke before) and comes to her kitchen to help out her mother. She is wearing shorts while smoking yak. Her 65 year old father is mortified. One day she sees a big farsi ( pumpkin) in a corner of the kitchen and takes it to her veranda and starts to wash with soap and water while her parents look at her puzzled. She explains the ripen farsi from their bari is very dirty. The neighbor watches curiously and asks her husband to join in.
After a few days her father just cannot stand all those smoke and her shorts and boob showing halter top. He asks her to leave his home immediately while calling her a “whore.” To him she was way too “Amrikanized” for his taste.
I leave the judgment to dear readers.
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| Mahesh |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 12:21 PM
HeDevelope a twang or add yuh know after every sentence its your choice. But please do learn the language before you start developing an accent. There are other things in this language than the twang. Like Verb, Adjectives noun pronoun tenses etc etc. We would be much obliged if you can walk the walk(learn the language) before you start talking the talk(with that mmuch appreciatd twang). What do you say people ??
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| chupacabra |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 01:43 PM
todos esta bien...amigo...
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 08:52 PM
Okay, now don't tell me any one of us here has not fallen into the the trap of playing up some stupid stereotype to "impress" someone else about how very "americanized" we are or how well assimilated to this new culture? OR how Nepali, how unchanged and how true to Nepali culture that we "value" so much!
I think there is an interesting play of psychology going on here. Most, X-Gen at least, Nepalis have a couple different things going on in their heads. We grew up in a cultural mileu where Nationalism, loyalty to "mother Nepal" and the symbols of Nepali soverignity and nationhood, like the uniue flag, vermillion as the state color, the Royal staff, the danphe and so and and so forth!
On the otherside, our nation's poverty, its corrupt systems causes disenchantment and leads us to a search of something better. This mixed with the way Western culture is sold to us everywhere as somehow superior, somehow more desirable means along with its own symbols... technology, freedom, equality, mobility... the alternative we come to think is the only alternative is not necessarily the ONLY alternative, but how would we know without exploring. But often we DO believe that the West is in essence THE best. So of course we put on those accents- that twang, use those "you know"or "like" after like every word(get that?)?
Anyhow, wanted to remind myself and others that don't forget that you are part of this larger thing and why people do the kind of things they do.
I am not totally resolved beteween my nationalism/patriotism and the "global" person I am or how "american,"meaning the eternal advocate for justice and freedom." Somehow often believing that those wonderful ideals are solely an "American" phenomenon because I am blinded by my disenchantment and sadness of the mess Nepal is at times.
So let's look in the mirror, friends, before ridiculing others too much so that we are being disengenous and falling into the trap of somehow thinking we can be objective about this business of understanding what "americanized" means and what someone is thinking of when they say they think someone is "americanized."
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 08:55 PM
Or "how Nepali!' for that matter. It could be a gali or a compliment. But mostly we seem to say "How Nepali!" as a not very nice thing to say abotu someone.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 09:05 PM
Americanized Nepalis:
Ashu wrote only +ve sides of being americanized,
but, sunkhari wrote -ve sides of americanized.
(both written by americanized Nepalis).
Here is mine, who went to America for 15days,
and had met many americanized Nepalis :
1. Discussions: Discuss and discuss and again diiscuss
never ending discussions. No conclusions. They, claim
they learned this in America. Half baked: Don't how
to get to conclusion. No timeframe for end of discussion
and execution of the work based on those never
ending discussion.
2. Eat: Talk a lot about calorie, fat, and excercize, but,
eat a lot. Fatty peoples. Well, food is cheaper in USa,
but, it does not mean you eat as much as you stomach
can get. NK 's suggestion should be remembered.
3. Superiority: Hamle america yasto usto .. Ultra
superior feeling. That irritates people in Nepal.
One of them, Ashu once wrote in SCN/TND, criticizing
Mahat for his Ph.D. from Pune (?), he does not know
economics .... I was surprised to read this statement
from Ashu, who usually advocates not only American
Univ. grads know, but, also have good knowledge ....
4. Clothes and Knowledge: (ref. sunkhari):
Wear original jeans everyday, talk same
story everyday, and in 1 or 2 years of return,
repeat the same story like Bigreako tape,
and Jeans' pants also get torned out, and brain
also jammed of new ideas ... finally, become
a great joke among Non-americanized nepalis.
5. Negligence of Local condition: Talk only new techs,
without consideration of local condition and social
structure, and oohi america ko freedom ko damfoo
bajako chha chha.
8. Spent most of the time in earning fees and living
cost, while in America, but, claim to have spent almost
all the time in univ. learning and studying. When
comes to working, knows nothing really, except
phai-fui, pizza nepali and english with Nepalis.
9. TV and news paper: look and watch too much
CNN, TIME, NEWSWEEK,NYT and talk only
world affairs.
10.Enjoy X-mas more than Nepali chahads and
talk valentine, helowean .......s
Some more to come. Reply to these 10points
will clarify how americanized you guys are.
I will write about Japanized.
HahooGuru
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| nepal-usa.cjb.net |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 11:35 PM
This is a great discussion thread with excellent inputs. I was wondering if I could use some of them for the Nepal USA site as well as higher education handbook. I tried to contact the site admin. But contact@sajha.com doesnt seem to be working. I will, of course mention that the discussion regarding the matter originated in sajha.com kurakani, with a brief description of the site.
Hope that its alright if I use some resources. Do inform me at network@nepal-usa.cjb.net if you have objections to it.
Thanks.
moderator,
http://nepal-usa.cjb.net
Keep up the excellent discussion. Sajha.com Kurakani rocks. And this aint just "tel lagaying", I assure you.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 04:52 AM
Hahooguru aka GP-ji wrote:
3. Superiority: Hamle america yasto usto .. Ultra
superior feeling. That irritates people in Nepal.
One of them, Ashu once wrote in SCN/TND, criticizing
Mahat for his Ph.D. from Pune (?), he does not know
economics .... I was surprised to read this statement
from Ashu, who usually advocates not only American
Univ. grads know, but, also have good knowledge ....
******************
Ashu's response:
This is FALSE.
Yes, on SCN once, I do remember criticizing -- as a matter of economic reasoning, which I learnt in the US, by the way -- some of the ideas of Dr. Ram Sharan Mahat re: hydropower development as being not convincing enough. And, as always, I gave my reasons.
Sure, my reasons might have been brilliant or stupid, but at least those were my reasons for others to comment on. Also, having had a minor dust-up with Dr. Mahat himself in Kathmandu in another context in 1994, I was careful, in my
SCN posting, not to be critical of Dr. Mahat as a person or even as an
economist. After all, economists are famous for disagreeing with one
another, and that's life!
When someone asked on SCN whether Dr. Mahat had received his degree from the US, I did reply FACTUALLY, saying that he had in fact earned his PhD from Pune, India.
I am NOT sure how the above constitutes some sort of "superior attitude"
that hahoo-guru is trying -- UNFAIRLY -- to lump on me.
****
This is the SECOND time in the last one week that our hahoo-guru has MISUNDERSTOOD the content my postings and has attributed something
to me which is just misleading and FALSE.
My request to hahoo-guru, next time, please use DIRECT QUOTES.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| ashu |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 08:42 AM
All things being equal, I PREFER to work with so-called Americanized Nepalis in Kathmandu and in Nepal, and here are my own reasons based on my LIMITED experience.
This is an informal compililation to ake you think, to prvke you and to amuse you.
Consider this an antidote to Haahoo's list.
Please feel free to disagree.
a) They know what deadlines are.
b) They can stay up all night, or several nights in a row, if need be, to meet
the deadlines at work.
c) They tend to have better work ethic than other Nepalis and are more result-oriented than other Nepalis.
d) Unlike Nepalis who studied in India, they are likely to know APPRECIATE
manual, menial work. Most of them remember how hard they physically worked
in the US -- working at an ice-cream store or an Indian restaurant or at a supermarket or cleaning dorm bathrooms, or working as bartenders, waiters, security guards, movers and so on and on for pocket money as well as to pay
for college tuition, room and board.
e) They are very good at multi-tasking: getting several things moving, doing several things at once, and are relatively much better at time management
than most other Nepalis.
f) They have a higher, deeper sense of "can do" attitude that's JUST missing
in others.
g) They just seem a lot more energetic, are more driven and are better
strategic thinkers than other Nepalis.
h) They sem to have a higher sense of independence of thought and habits.
i) They get the references so that Kurakani with them is easier and more fun:
Jay Leno, Store 24, The Gap, grunge music, Domino's Pizza, the New York
Review of Books, Hoover Institution, Enron and so on and on.
j) They can disagree with their seniors and elders with reasons and counter-ideas
so as to push for better solutions, ways and approaches.
j) They seem to appreciate the arts and cuture much better than other Nepalis. You can find tem attending some obscure local dance in Thimi or spending
a quiet evening at Kopan Monastery at Bauddha, and so on.
k) They also seem to dress really well and are often very good-looking :-)
Again, just my INFORMAL observations.
Please feel free to disagree, especially you -- Haahoo Guru.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 08:43 AM
All things being equal, I PREFER to work with so-called Americanized Nepalis in Kathmandu and in Nepal, and here are my own reasons based on my LIMITED experience.
This is an informal compililation to ake you think, to prvke you and to amuse you.
Consider this an antidote to Haahoo's list.
Please feel free to disagree.
a) They know what deadlines are.
b) They can stay up all night, or several nights in a row, if need be, to meet
the deadlines at work.
c) They tend to have better work ethic than other Nepalis and are more result-oriented than other Nepalis.
d) Unlike Nepalis who studied in India, they are likely to know APPRECIATE
manual, menial work. Most of them remember how hard they physically worked
in the US -- working at an ice-cream store or an Indian restaurant or at a supermarket or cleaning dorm bathrooms, or working as bartenders, waiters, security guards, movers and so on and on for pocket money as well as to pay
for college tuition, room and board.
e) They are very good at multi-tasking: getting several things moving, doing several things at once, and are relatively much better at time management
than most other Nepalis.
f) They have a higher, deeper sense of "can do" attitude that's JUST missing
in others.
g) They just seem a lot more energetic, are more driven and are better
strategic thinkers than other Nepalis.
h) They sem to have a higher sense of independence of thought and habits.
i) They get the references so that Kurakani with them is easier and more fun:
Jay Leno, Store 24, The Gap, grunge music, Domino's Pizza, the New York
Review of Books, Hoover Institution, Enron and so on and on.
j) They can disagree with their seniors and elders with reasons and counter-ideas
so as to push for better solutions, ways and approaches.
j) They seem to appreciate the arts and cuture much better than other Nepalis. You can find tem attending some obscure local dance in Thimi or spending
a quiet evening at Kopan Monastery at Bauddha, and so on.
k) They also seem to have better personal hygiene, dress really well and
are often very good-looking :-)
Again, just my INFORMAL observations.
Please feel free to disagree, especially you -- Haahoo Guru.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Humbo |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 11:01 AM
Dont try to define it in detail to save your stinking hide...
It simply means YOU folks are ECONOMIC MIGRANTS and YOU ARE WILLING to KISS AMERICAN ASS ... ~SHAME on you people !!..
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 11:50 AM
Mr. Humbo jumbo:
I think it is presumptious to say that every Nepali who is in America is in America for no other reason than the economic one. For many being in America is harder than being in Nepal!! I for one think about the household help, the community and family support, getting to eat your favorite food everyday without having to cook it yourself, never having to do dishes, no auto insurance or medical insurance to worry about.... that I would not need to worry about were I in Nepal.
Maybe there is a bit of projection going on here. Maybe YOUR sole motivation is life is the ECONOMIC gains that can be made, but get this, there are still people in this world who are not soley driven by economics...
Generalizations are just that, generalizations.
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 02:11 PM
Dear all,
I TOTALLY disagree with HAHOO guru. I guess, with the new name, GP-ji got a fresh new perspective to look at things. (And I guess, its callled being Japanized). We all know (well, most of us know) how the whole "polite" hai-hai (yes, yes) bhanne Japanese image was created and how cruel they were during the first half of the century. (if any of you don't know about the "constructed" artificial japanese image that we have in our mind, please read this excellent book called Enduring Defeat).
Anyway, now getting back to the discussion: hahoo guru, we americanized students do get to conclusions, so our discussions aren't just a sheer waste of time. We agree to disagree without being enemies, and we put forward solid points to support our views than just say hai-hai-hai to everything. We value diversity. We learn to develop critical thinking, and that's why many people who frequent this site are either from the US or who got their education in the US.
GP ji, I guess, NanShan Sake has started to drink you these days. Regarding your other posting on pakhe nepalis, I just couldn't believe that it was you who posted that. I met a fellow poster (with a wide-ranging international experience) and he spoke excellent nepali, didn't talk about TNY, Time magazine or anything, just talked about nepal, his work and his life. Gp-ji, you spent 2 weeks in America doesn't mean that you can make "chahine-nachahine" comments on nepalese living there/or who spent time there. I admit there are some nepalis out there who like to show off but, there are many othres who are down to earth and who know how to value others and refrain from generalizing.
GP-ji, one more thing, american schools (atleast the one I attended) encouraged discussions. There would be a studednt with a leftist tilt, another would have a capitalist tilt.. another would be a south asian .. and the prof would be european.. Then we would share our ideas on any given topic, learn from each other and contradict each other without being offending or without being enemies. I guess, its just opposite in japan. I heard that they don't encourage class-room discussions, and if you don't nod your head to what your prof says, you end up getting F. So, students in japan don't get to develop critical thinking nor get to learn to value diversity. I remember this from my chinese class: there were two japanese students in class, who would never speak, nor say anything to the prof. The prof would have to make them speak, while others would speak, share their views... later, when I asked one of the jap. stundets the reason for him being so quiet, he was like, i don't want to offend my teacher and i don't want to get laughed at my accent! come on, it was a beginning chinese class. This happened in my comparative politics class too. Not a single japanese studnt would speak.
anyway, i am tired. have to finish some work by tomorrow.
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| Durcheruwa |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 11:44 PM
ok folks, let's not judge each other with intent to find shortcomings on other aisle where we don't belong. First of all, in my opinion, we are product of our society and our environment. If one fellow Nepali in Nepal asks me how much money I make, I wouldn't consider him rude. It is our culture to ask how much one make and where one works. But in US, it is not right form of etiquette. So before we pass our judgment we need to know, how much exposure that person has gotton from that environment to judge according to the norms of that environment. If Nepali just came from Nepal to US, in overnight it is unfair to expect him to behave accroding to US's norms and customs.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Jan-02 06:39 PM
TA ji wrote:
hai-hai (yes, yes) by japanese:
Well, I will be trying to point out the characters of
some Japanized Nepalis too, once the issue on Americanized
Nepali closes.
For many who got infuriated by my outlines of being
americanized, I had told at the beginning that the
points made by Ashus are positive and many Nepalis
are happy to find these characters and appreciate
very much the quality of some Americanized Nepalis,
but, there are some times we call someone americanized
in negative sense, especially, Nepalis who had never
been to America for substantially long stay, and I was
one of them. I posted those characters / perceptions
to know your clarifications, also to let you know what
others think of you. So, you don't feel great like
emperors' clothes.
----
Regarding TA 's HAI HAI (=YES YES) by japanese, you
should remember that Japanese if say just Hai Hai, then,
its not "Yes, I do agree with you", rather its "Yes, I am
listening to you". This is one of the most difficult part for
me to understand a Japanese behavior. Clinton once
said "Japanese say yes for no, No meant yes ....". I mean
even clinton could not understand Jap. PM's yes and NO.
Lets keep on rolling.
HahooGuru
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Jan-02 07:14 PM
TA ji wrote:
I guess, its just opposite in japan. I heard that they don't encourage class-room discussions, and if you don't nod your head to what your prof says, you end up getting F.
----
Its all based on what you heard, and HahooGuru wrote in his earlier
posting also based on what he heard and what he observed among some
americanized Nepalis. So, its a time to clarify each other. In Japan,
Hai Hai is usually, taken as yes, I am listening to you, if you are just
saying Hai Hai and without any cross question, before you put any
red mark on your paper all lonely "Hai Hai" has no-meaning , other than
I am listening to you. Its Japanese culture. When they are going to
take / works some responsible things, then, the cross questioning
is probably so much lengthy you will get tired of it. Remember, if you
speak, "Hai, + one more line", then, you can not take it easily back.
-------
HahooGuru will not talk what happens in Jap. Univ.s, let the students
from Jap. Univ. talk. I am no more Jap. Univ. student since I got last
graduation more than half a decade back. But, I know what kinds
of discussions they have and how they differ with American Univ.
Only one thing I will hint you is that its a homogeneous society,
here the students and teachers have relation like Parents and
their son/daughters. A Univ. professor will not bow for his own son
/daughter, but, will bow (Dhogchan) or melt down for their students cause.
---- if we ever meet each other we can clarify this part. I am not
authorized to make comments on this part. ---?"#$%&'()
------
TA: So, students in japan don't get to develop critical thinking .
---------Same as one around the end of last paragraph.
TA: nor get to learn to value diversity.
HahooGuru: true. They don't know diversity. They get surprised
that Nepal being so small in area, has such a great diversity in
language, races, faces, and cultures. That makes them confused.
Japan, Korea nd Taiwan, are now in what they are all because of
the homogeneous nature of their culture within the national border
line. If they were as diversed, as we are, they would be talking
and talking and finally, nothing productive would be no less than
like other asians who talk and do nothing. In 50years, you can
see how it has developed.
TA: I remember this from my chinese class: there were two japanese students in class, who would never speak, nor say anything to the prof.
HahooGuru: A good friend of mine from India, before asking second
question in an international conference in Japan, he told "You will have
hard time in making a Japanese to speak, and You will have hard time to
make an Indian keep silence". In Japan, you are asked to speak only
when you are sure on what you are talking and take full responsibility.
If you have Jap. colleague, he will not agree with you until he understands
100% on the things he has to do, if that work is his own responsibility.
But, will keep silence or even sleeping, if it does not fall under his
responsibility. Well, in making funs, Japanese jokes are different from
American or Nepali jokes. Sometime, you get tortured with the
jokes, vice versa.
Conclusion: Even if I stay in Japan, for another 20years, I can not
be Japanized fully, I can not understand them fully. If you want to
work in Japan, your prime responsibility will be on time, and confine
only on what you are authorized, no way to interfere on others work
and no way to raise questions over questions, if you do it, anwer
will be again "Hai", and once you vanish from the room, you will
be stamped like = "Kasto american jasto rahicha".
No way to talk or make false promises, raise questions on superior.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 20-Jan-02 08:46 PM
The difference in Japan and America, or even Nepal in America is that, compared to America both of those countries seem more or less homogenous. Of course Japan has obviously been the more successful of the two, but Nepal too has done and continues to do its share of suppressing its minority communites. This goes along side the creation of a very strong mainstream/status quo that is accepted as THE right way. The established norms are so strong that it leaves little room for people to take risks and move beyond their ranks. So the MO there is "don't speak unless you can back it up somehow." Of course that has been the country's very strength, until recently of course. The exposure to a different way of doing things that obviously works and allows for lot more freedon and social mobility, has led many young Japanese to vier from the well trodden path of being a salaryman.
Like Nepal though, Japan too is still largely a country where social obligation, birth right/place, and other old world holds are strong. The modern world as is today is still a place defined by the West. Our cultures (east/non-western) have not had time or place to negotiate the new world. We are htrust into a different world where the rules of the game are different. Lot of us learn to naviagate and negotiate the new world in a way that allows us to survice, even thrive, and be CHANGED in the process.
I guess to some, that change means you are less Nepali. To some that means you are Americanized. Who cares what the term is.... the basic idea behind any of those terms is to box you and it is the bi-product of a culture where your social rank, your little place in the world is defined by your birth or some other factor outside your control. It is a judgement, and not a kind one at that most of the time.
I won't comment on those who say they are unchanged by having been in the states, or another country they have lived in, for a period of time.
Maybe HaaHoo Guru ji or another long time resident of Japan cannot hope to be considered a "real" Japanese ever in Japan. But let me ask you all: say somenone has lived in America for 20years, but suppose still has an accent (a nepali one ... and not the twang), still likes dal bhat and eating them with his hand, say he you still expects his wife to cook him a seven course meal daily though she too works all day, say he never does the dishes? What would you call him? Would one sing his praises for not changing in his 20 years int eh states and sing hymns about how he resisted the temptation of becomign "Americanized"
I thoguth that was pretty funny!
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 20-Jan-02 09:59 PM
To me being Americanized means following:
1. Listening to my students with courtesy-unlike the profs. in Nepal who look at you like you are some kind of a retard.
2. Being able to handle home improvements on my own without having to get carpenters or what not. This includes visits to Home Depot for tools and other paraphernalia and SHASTA pool (store) to make sure our private swimming pool has right chemical combination.
3. Maintaining independent thoughts without being swayed by seniority, educational qualification, status or position of the other people.
4. Not being "andhabhakt" of American foreign policy and being critical where it is called for.
5. Trying to volunteer time for social causes by participating in organization like SEBS-NA and providing my insight and educated opinions.
6. Not participating on games of "Paplu" when I used to have free time during undergrad years.
7. Being open minded about controversial issues.
8. Mostly, opposing elitist attitudes and putting those people in their places who think their shit don't stink.
Best!!!
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| WHAT'S WHAT |
Posted
on 21-Jan-02 06:22 PM
Man you folks are going really out of your way to define whats what.
Its very american to do that(labeling people). Is anything going to come out of this discission ? All you' even intellects are participating in this brain draining good for nothing discussion. where are we going with this ? NOWHERE. Very nepalese Kaam Na Kaaz Khali Twar twar, twar twar.
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