| Username |
Post |
| Outraged |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 12:47 PM
A 10 percent tax has been slapped on rice imports, the Finance Ministry said. A one percent special charge has been levied on goods subject of five percent customs tariff and a one percent special charge has been increased to three percent.
Special surcharges on cars, jeeps, vans, motorcycles, single and double pick-ups have been increased by 10 percent. Rs.1 per litre special charge has been levied on petrol, diesel and kerosene.
Another 10 percent customs tariff has been levied on vegetable ghee and oil exports, six percent on cathodes, wire bundles, billet, wire sheets and copper items and zinc oxide and two percent on acrylic weaving yarn with immediate effect.
Five percent excise duty has been increased on cigarettes, alcohol, beer and pan parag. New measures have been made for imposing excise on soft drinks and mineral water. A voluntary disclosure scheme on income that expired Monday has been extended to mid February.
What the hell is this?
They just want to charge taxes left and right to make up for their budget imbalance. What about more efficient collection (the VDIS was a commendable effort) and less to pay for corruption!
Now it seems that the honest guys get jacked up their ass more, while the cheats get richer. The only OK thing I see up there is the taxes on cigarettes, alcohol etc.
An additional 10% on vehicles! They already charge over 100% taxes on those. Nepalis are paying twice more than any other people to buy some luxury items.
PEOPLE NEED TO RAISE THEIR VOICES. WE NEED A BETTER SYSTEM OF TAX COLLECTION AND ACTION AGAINST TAX EVASION, BUT NOT NEW TAXES.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 01:24 PM
I share your outrage. Though tax in rice is not something I am outraged at. Cheap
rice had made our farmers suffer a lot.
A friend of mine used to work in one NGO. His monthly salary was almost Rs 42,000
and he told me he paid only Rs 1,200.00 as tax. That's shame. The NGOs are
evading tax with thousands of means, and the government is too lazy to control
that.
VAT was a good thing, but it was made impotent.Time to implement a good and
fruitful tax policy.
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| bandhuraj |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 03:12 PM
Following are some of the major contribution of HMG of Nepal to its people.
Security - None
Education - uncertain
health care - unrealiable
unemployment - high
Water - limited
Electricity - interrupting
News - false
transportation - few
environment - polluted
telicommunication - against VoIP
social security - nill
saving interest rate - low
loan interest rate - high
NRs value - negligiable
but ......................
politic - is in the blood of people. They are addictive and need more
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| JC |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 06:43 PM
Tax is essential, no doubt about it. This VDIS was a great tool, but as always Congress government is 'napunsak'. It can never do what it should do or rather it always tries to do something good and then pulls back on the pressures of 'Mafia' heads.
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| HMG |
Posted
on 17-Jan-02 07:42 PM
I totally agree. Time to start being reasonable.
Actions of the government have been totally unreaasonable. I AM FED-UP.
|
| Gandhi |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 12:42 AM
Biswoji,
These people should are always targeted and they are always successful to find ways to evade tax. Externally funded project's account are not audited by Mahalekha. People who are already get paid very high salary there always try to find a loophole in the tax rules. There are very few offices which encourage the workers to pay tax.
I recall one humorous moments when I worked in Eastern Nepal. Our project director was British, who always forced that we had to pay income tax. The first year when 'deduction at source' was introduced, we paid huge money each month. Even one had to have tax clearance certificate with one to go abroad. However, when we went to tax office to get our tax clearance certificate we had to pay extra money to the clerk/officer at tax office to get the certificates. There were to many helicopter flights over our office by the end of the year. Our director regretfully said "See your tax money is flying". The next year, we found some loop hole in the tax rules and reduced our tax by more than half. Not surprisingly these officers/clerks themselves instructed us later how we could evade tax.
If tax officials work honestly to the government/people and cooperatively with the management of the organization, it is very easy to collect the tax from source. The donor country advocates transparency and the projects they fund are extremely opaque. ???
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| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 05:36 AM
Let me take this tack:
Why should anyone in Nepal pay taxes in the first place?
Now, don't misunderstand me: I am NOT advocating that you should not pay your taxes. Nor I am saying that since you are good citizens, you should pay taxes.
I am being neither rebellious nor morally earnest here.
My assumption is this: All else being equal, people work hard so as to make more money so as to have a higher quality of life that more money can buy.
And with that assumption, my question is much more basic: Why should you pay taxes in Nepal in the first place? Are reasons for paying your taxes sound ones for you to do ?
After all, through taxes, the more you earn through your hard work, the more
money you give to the government so that it can assuredly waste it on your behalf.
Now, isn't that an obvious disincentive for you to work hard and make more money? I mean, you work hard to make more money, but soon you realize that through taxes you are only making the government richer, and it does almost nothing for you.
So?
Unless you are a pro-government, why work hard and make more money if
much of that money is going to the government?
What do others -- those who say that taxes must be paid -- think?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| JC |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 07:54 AM
>Let me take this tack:
>
>Why should anyone in Nepal pay taxes in the
>first place?
>
>Now, don't misunderstand me: I am NOT
>advocating that you should not pay your
>taxes. Nor I am saying that since you are
>good citizens, you should pay taxes.
>I am being neither rebellious nor morally
>earnest here.
>
>My assumption is this: All else being equal,
>people work hard so as to make more money so
>as to have a higher quality of life that
>more money can buy.
>
>And with that assumption, my question is
>much more basic: Why should you pay taxes in
>Nepal in the first place? Are reasons for
>paying your taxes sound ones for you to do ?
>
>After all, through taxes, the more you earn
>through your hard work, the more
>money you give to the government so that it
>can assuredly waste it on your behalf.
>
>Now, isn't that an obvious disincentive for
>you to work hard and make more money? I mean,
> you work hard to make more money, but soon
>you realize that through taxes you are only
>making the government richer, and it does
>almost nothing for you.
>
>So?
>Unless you are a pro-government, why work
>hard and make more money if
>much of that money is going to the
>government?
>
>What do others -- those who say that taxes
>must be paid -- think?
>
>oohi
>ashu
>ktm,nepal
Reminds me of one of our teachers in high-school saying this:
"The more you learn, more you forget, more you forget, less you learn, so why bother learning?" Well although you pay more taxes, you still earn more- there is one good reason to earn more.
Now about paying taxes- We know a lot of people in Nepal do not pay taxes or even if they pay through various means, they do not realize that they are paying taxes. So we think the Government runs from foreign source or from godsend.
So Nepalese do not care much about how the Government is spending the money.
If Nepalese start paying taxes, or if they realize that they are paying taxes, then they will perhaps be more aware of how and where the government is spending 'their own' money.
In Nepal, we pay taxes when we buy ciggarette, beer, rice, lentils, almost everything, however, unlike the US, we pay the total amount including taxes- thus not realizing we are paying taxes.
I think if all of our Nepali people were made to pay taxes and also made it in such a way that we are informed of paying various taxes, we would hold the government and netas more accountable.
Do you know that the government specifically charges a certain amount of tax on Gasoline (Petroleum products) for bettering the environment. The tax collected for this is adds upto a lot of money but is hardly used for the purpose. Now if people knew this everytime they pumped gas, wouldn't they have more questions about how the money is being used? Alas! We really don't know, so we keep quiet and think the whole Government is funded by foreign AIDs.
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| concerned |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 08:25 AM
Ashu, your reasoning is pathetic. So, are you paying your taxes (assuming you have real job in Nepal)? The argument you are advocating is very much similar to the ones supported by the rignt wingers in US. I think you should look at the social effects as well. (just wanted to post this much now, will post more later.)
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| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 10:27 AM
[A personal note: If Sunakhari gets her frustrations out through this board, then I must also happily confess that one of the things I just LOVE/ADORE/RELISH about this sajha board is that this OPEN for-all forum is the best and the most honest medium for me to use my own name to dispel, to squash, to kill, to smash and to pulverize with solid evidence all kinds of silly and even jealous misconceptions and flat-out wrong assumptions about me in my own words.
And I remain grateful to sajha.com for allowing this. But enough on this.]
And so, with great pleasure, my dear "concerned", let me declare:
Yes, you can stop assuming.
I do have "a real job" (with a result-driven boss and smarter colleagues, I
might add) that pays me really well in Kathmandu.
Yes, I do pay taxes - quite heavily, in fact.
Now that I have addressed your (ad hominem) concerns with verifiable truths
of personal nature, let's put that behind us, grow up and return to the
substance of the debate, shall we?
So, my quesion remains: Stripping our arguments of sme highfalutin
moral purpose and all that, why should we pay taxes?
What good does it do for us the taxpayers in Nepal?
That's my fundamental question.
You could say that it's a purely academic question, and I'd agree with that
characterization . . . then again, we need to start questioning assumptions.
So, look, I am NOT saying that you should NOT pay taxes, as anarchists from
Henry David Thoreau (of Concord, Massachusetts, I might add) on have
said publicly.
I am also NOT saying: no taxation without representation, like those involved
in the Boston Tea Party of the late 1700s.
I am also NOT saying: lower the tax rates, as Republicans (or right-wingers) in the US keep on saying.
I am asking a much more basic question: Why pay taxes?
If you say that our taxes help us pay for public goods in Nepal, then let's look
at the evidence.
As "bandhuraj" wrote (with some exaggeration!):
"Security - None
Education - uncertain
health care - unrealiable
unemployment - high
Water - limited
Electricity - interrupting
News - false
transportation - few
environment - polluted
telicommunication - against VoIP
social security - nill
saving interest rate - low
loan interest rate - high
NRs value - negligiable"
So, where does that leave you with your tax money?
Aen't you better off spending your own money yourself n things you want
to do rather than letting the Nepali government waste it for dubious purposes
for you?
Think about that.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
I am also NOT saying: find a loophole to
|
| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 01:54 PM
This is probably the only time I’ve gone out of my way to support Ashu, who I don’t always agree but whose opinions/views I respect (yes! It’s possible to still respect someone’s views even when you don’t agree with them).
I think Ashu brings up a very good point when he questions what Nepali people have to gain from faithfully paying taxes. One doesn’t have to be a left or right winger to see the obvious – Nepal’s infrastructure is none-existent and the government does little to improve it. What’s the point of filling HMGN’s coffers if little is done to improve the standard of living? Like Ashu, I am not saying that people shouldn’t pay taxes, but were I to live in Nepal and see little or no improvement, I’d opt not to pay taxes too. Paying taxes might be the right thing to do but if there’s no give (paying taxes) and take (government utilizing tax money to improve infrastructure, education, etc.), Nepali’s WOULD be better off spending their money as they please.
Truth be told, I never paid taxes while in Nepal though I had what would be considered a hefty salary by Nepali standards. I didn’t see the government going after the filthy-rich-profit-turning-tax-evading-companies, neither did I feel the government demonstrated a keen interest in properly utilizing tax money to build and strengthen the nation and it’s people. On the contrary, I always felt HMGN was too busy trying to spend as much foreign aid as possible for (to quote Ashu) dubious purposes – the faster they spent foreign aid, the faster they could ask for more!
It’s very righteous to complain about tax-evaders in cyberspace, but I truly wonder just how many of you out there would evade taxes if you could get away with it. I got away with not paying taxes and given the chance, I can honestly say I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
Whether Ashu has a job or not is irrelevant and neither your business nor mine, concerned.
|
| sunakhari |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 02:08 PM
Ashu
thanks so much for replying to my posting in a totally different thread and taking it out of context (AGAIN).
Maybe I should have a multiple paragraph reply to this posting quoting different postings by different people but time is of the essence here and I, a mere mortal, will have to just post this little answer.
Cheers
|
| NK |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 02:20 PM
JDV,
Let me ask you one question. Do you have objection to pay taxes period or only in Nepal?
If I read Ashu's posting he asks the "fundamental question": "Why Pay Taxes."
First of all let me say this: I pay taxes and it is the law here. If there was no law, would I have? That I don't know. But, I am from the school of paying tax is good. People should be taxed and poor (however the government defines) should be taxed less.
Ashu, in one of your postings here in this board you were dismayed by what is going on in Argentina. Does that shake your faith in democracy, free market, globalization? As far as I can tell you are still the proponent of all of these. If your ideology is sound and if there is no contradiction in your logic/thought process then why do you have objection to pay taxes when you see, to quote you, :
"If you say that our taxes help us pay for public goods in Nepal, then let's look
at the evidence.
As "bandhuraj" wrote (with some exaggeration!):
"Security - None
Education - uncertain
health care - unrealiable
unemployment - high
Water - limited
Electricity - interrupting
News - false
transportation - few
environment - polluted
telicommunication - against VoIP
social security - nill
saving interest rate - low
loan interest rate - high
NRs value - negligiable"
If you take the example of one of the poorest country in the world to not to pay taxes then you are devoid of a sound argument. Look at Germany. Find out how much people pay taxes and look again the population of homeless, the condition of roads, the health care, the education. Look at Norway. Find out how much they pay and look at thier social welfare system. ("welfare has a bad connotation, thanks to Regan. Actuall he is the one who made the word 'liberal' sound like a gali).. Look at Sweden.
And JDV this goes to you too. You and Ashu and log in and find out together.
Remember how bush used to laugh at the word/concept, "nation building?" Once his own country was attacked he cannot wait for this nation building thing. hej has even sent powel to -of all the place - to Nepal! we have a saying, "buddhiman sochera jancha, murkha parera.' again, don't take this literally as you have done in the past. i know you both are very intelligent and ariculate.
Tax is necessary and should be. If we want to live in a modestly equal society. Not everybody has the same means to earn tons of money. Not everybody has the ability (by lack of education, handicap, lack of CONNECTION -ENRON!!)to earn what that guy in the merecedez has. Roads don't get mended by itself. Public school don't get teachers for free. Poor cannot afford to pay doctor's fee.etc etc.
Also, on a pragmatic level you don't want those nanga bhutanga, khana napka descend upon your beautiful mansion with a matchet, do you?
I love paying taxes.
I love supporting various causes.
I love to be a good citizen, who not only wants to fulfil her dream but also wants to see others do as well.
[correct my grammar and spelling mistake as you go along, no time to edit]
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 02:36 PM
>Let me ask you one question. Do you have
>objection to pay taxes period or only in
>Nepal?
I'm not opposed to paying taxes, either here or in Nepal, but if I thought I'd get away with not paying any, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Hey I'm only being honest and I never did claim to be an ideal citizen.
I think I'd be more reluctant to paying taxes in Nepal since ordinary folks like me never reap the benefits of taxation. At least here in the US I know my tax money's being put to some good use (I know, I know, not all the money is utilized for the people's benefit even in the US), AND I can get social security in my old age and unemployment benefits should the need ever arise.
What can I say? I'm selfish.
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| NK |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 02:38 PM
I would like to add one more thing:
I like to live the way I intellecutally, morally understand I should.
I Don't want to live in contradiction: Intelluctualy thinking A is right, but doing not A.
or in Ashu and JDV's case
A=not good
but, do A
Where A =paying taxes is good
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| NK |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 02:39 PM
I appreciate your honesty JDV. Seriously.
|
| TAxes |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 04:02 PM
Everyone has to pay taxes.......(except maybe people who earn too little).
After all we want good roads, facilities, security etc.
My only qualm in Nepal is that most of it goes to corruption. That I am pissed about.
If the taxes are used for the right purposes, I think we should all pay.
|
| Duh |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 04:07 PM
>Everyone has to pay taxes.......(except
>maybe people who earn too little).
>
>After all we want good roads, facilities,
>security etc.
>
>My only qualm in Nepal is that most of it
>goes to corruption. That I am pissed about.
>If the taxes are used for the right purposes,
> I think we should all pay.
You might be missing the point. People don't mind paying the taxes IF it's used for the right purpose. The reason they don't wanna pay is because it's never used for what it's supposed to be used for.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 04:11 PM
Thank you, Duh!!!
|
| Torikofoool |
Posted
on 18-Jan-02 10:53 PM
One thing I don't understand. If there is zero tax, then how the government will run? Don't government need some money to run except the country like ours where we ask for donation to richer counties.
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| concerned |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 04:37 PM
I totally agree with NK and others who have expressed similar views.
The question for this topic should have been how we ,as a member of civil society, could help in better utilization of tax revenue. Institutions dealing with corruption and other social evils should be made more effective and we should provide all the necessary support that is needed instead of bickering about why we need to pay tax. I am afraid that some people might use this discussion of why pay taxes to rationalize their basis for tax evasion. For me, evading taxes (or declaring less than what one earns) is a serious crime and it's no different than the corruption that we fondly talk about. We should feel proud to pay taxes. We all agree that the situation in Nepal is disappointing, but it could have been even worse had the country not tried to sustain it financially. Equally important thing to realize is that two wrongs can not make the situation right. Corruption and tax evasion are both morally wrong and they should in no way be encouraged.
|
| concerned |
Posted
on 19-Jan-02 04:50 PM
Regarding the original topic, what we fail to understand is why the govt. was forced to resort to such unpopular measure. What were the options available to the government? I guess many of us would agree that the govt. should not incur very high deficit. The immediate measure, in my opinion, was to raise taxes.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Jan-02 08:20 PM
"More rule means more rooms for corruptions" --
in developing countries like Nepal. Last November
I saw one guy in TIA immigration counter talking to
other Nepali who landed in the same plane as me.
He and his kid were from USA from their talk.
The guy who seemed to be working in some
posts of Finance Ministry, "Ma ta khali hajoor
lagi matrai ayeako. Khai tyo bag disyos ta, ma
turunta gai halchu, hajoor process fulfill garer green
channel bata aisyos, ma yo suitcase bahir diula....".
Then, the guy vanished from doors for Staffs only.
Its how they pass things. Last year, a friend of mine
took his computer to Nepal, he paid Rs. 16,000 and
got receipt for only 12,000. Rs. 4,000 gone to pocket,
and when he raised the concern, the officer said,
hamile pani ta chiya khanu paryo ni. .. . . .
In Nepal, now you can even get receipt if you pay
undertable money. I once went to PO Box section
of GPO sundhara, and after paying fees for PO Box
had to find that guy who was responsible for
Lock-keys, he asked Rs. 50. for the work, and I asked
are you going to issue receipt, he said yes, no problem.
He issued it and I went for official stamp, because until
then, I thought its a formal money I was paying, and when
Darta chalani denied to put stamp, I asked him why he
don't? He said, yo ta uslai chiya kharcha diyeko po ta,
ani yo rashid ke garne ta? Yo tapai ko office ko lagi,
lagera dekhaunus na office ko accountant lai, akhir
private ta ho .... blah blah... "yo ta sidha chhal kapat
bho bhanda ta... " yastai ho yaha, ..... I still has
the receipt.
In Nepal, next time I went to govt.office. I went with
hand held voice recorder, which was switched on. I
deliberately showed that mahcine to the guy and asked
him to work. It worked so well, I was surprised. The
guy asked me whats that machine, its voice recorder was
my answer.
So, if you want to pay tax properly, to the level you
deserve, carry one voice recorder and keep on recording
the conversation. It may work for some time, against those
cheats.
HahooGuru
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