| Username |
Post |
| Site Admin |
Posted
on 25-Jan-02 09:47 AM
Posted by voice
ID: 30354635 Posted on 01-25-02 1:56 AM
Guys put ur thoughts here in the following topics:
ARRANGE MARRIAGE VS. LOVE MARRIAGE.
before i even ask u guys about this topic lemme explain myself about my own problem.a'right i ve been living in the US for almost four years and have a girl friend from a different culture.i would say a foreigner.and our relation is going pretty well as of today.i am college student and graduting pretty soon. in the meantime my parents are coming here for my graduation and i can't resist them not to come for their son's graduation.so, the problem arises here, if they come here they gonna know that i've a girlfriend from a different culture and my parents are absolutely traditional and believe in arrange marriage.or i would be allowed to get married with a girl from the same caste. it doesn't matter whether it's a love marriage or arrange marriage. but my destiny, i would say, was to love someone from differnt culture. u can't stop things from happening, so, it happened.what is the soultion? i wanna marry this girl that i am goin out with but i don't want to hurt my parent's feelings and i am their only son. so, they have this dream that one day i w'll go back to neapl and get married with the girl of their choice.i m really in a big dilemma.
by the way guys this a FICTION, but happening to so many students out there.so, lets' give our precious time to think about this problem. who knows it may happen to u or happening to u .Let's not forget "prevention is better than cure"
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An Indun Poet Posted on 01-25-02 2:14 AM
I suggest you dump the girl.
If you have QUESTIONS, you have DOUBTS, if you have DOUBTS, you are NOT really in LOVE. So why stick with the GIRL.
If that's not SO, then DON'T ask for HELP. You KNOW what better TO DO.
This is coming from An Indun Poet, a poet which was In Done in Love. So pelase don't take it seriously.
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| maxim. |
Posted
on 25-Jan-02 12:48 PM
say, would u like some cheese with that whine? im tired of this cross cultural gooble de gook.
suck it up people! u cant have everything.. of course u'll piss someone or the other off. if u're old enough to fall in love u're old enough to understand that.
so stop freggin moaning and get your priorities straight.
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| Durcheruwa |
Posted
on 25-Jan-02 06:24 PM
Voice,
Your dilemma is not uncommon among the nepali students/professional who live in US. In your case, since you are already in love, I think, who would be better equipped than yourself, to know what you need to do. The point, I want to stress, is no matter how free we think we are in terms of finance, life style and many others ways still we are hostage of will of our parents. I don't know how I could delicately balance this inevitably clashing things.
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| voice |
Posted
on 25-Jan-02 06:46 PM
Durcheruwa
i absolutely agree with that.that's becuz we respect our tradition.our father obeyed our grandfather,our grandfather obeyed our great grandfather, so it's our tradition.we should follow the same track no matter where we r or what we r is becuz of their uncoditional love and their commitment to see our bright future.
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| krishna |
Posted
on 29-Jan-02 01:34 PM
with all due respect to your parents, we are talking about the life you, not they, are living. assuming that your girlfriend feels the same way you do about your relationship, why are you even entertaining this fake dichotomy of love vs. arranged marriage? the issue shouldn't revolve around what mom and dad think; rather, it should center on where your relationship with your girlfriend is going. lastly, consider the fact that most parents tell their kids to do what they themselves were told to do by their parents, who were guided by their parents, etc.--often without any critical reflection on what they're recommending. can they offer you any convincing, well-reasoned arguments for sticking with your own kind (whatever that means)--which, let's face it, is probably exactly what they're telling you to do? i'd love to hear the rationale(s).
if they push you, you can always say, "mom, dad, i love and respect you both and know that you only want what is best for me. while you might disagree with my decision, i think that what i am doing is best for me and know that i can count on both of you for your support."
of course, you can always just show up at your swayambar somewhere and hope that the matchmakers did a good job picking (based on what/whose input, i know not) a suitable groom/bride.
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| Saddened |
Posted
on 30-Jan-02 01:45 PM
"You in the West marry the girl they love. We in the East Love the girl we marry"... it was stated a half century ago by a famous Indian poet! That's so true.
You guys who think that you are so independant, bah, you are nothing but a whining son of a bakers! You don't think parents have any rights! Again bah ... what if they have left you alone in Nepal when you came down with Typhoid when you were young. Who took care of you " pet ma juga pareko bela ma ... atthu atthu parera aachi garna daudina parda ... Ahile alikati kehi payo bhandai ma ke ke na bhaye ko jasto ... timiharu ... ungreatfult lots!
Without parents you don't exist. your basic "genotypical" identy is your parents ... without them you are nothing but a pile of $1.5 worth or chemicals! As they would say in hindi "Yesahan Faramoosh" or somethin like that!!
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| krishna |
Posted
on 30-Jan-02 04:46 PM
Saddu,
by that logic, one would jump off a cliff if one's folks said to. brillo! by logical extension of your own logic, parents are then responsible for their children's entire lives, which also means that parents are responsible for accepting the direct consequences of the effects of their decisions for their children. i wonder how many nepali parents who chose their children's spouses--only to have to the arranged marriage end in divorce--have actually paid alimony/support to the ex-son or daughter-in-law. talk about a parent's rights...to be held responsible for the consequences of their actions! as i said in my first reply, one can choose not to take parental advice and still be respectful.
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| bachelor |
Posted
on 30-Jan-02 05:36 PM
Let me add some for SADDENED.
Ama babu ko maan(heart) chora chori mathi Chora chori ko maan dhunga mudha mathi...
I guess no nepali parents will ever ask their childern to jump from the cliff so the logic is invalid hai Krisna bro. And i think divorce rate is NOT the true indicator of happiness in married life . If so the highest divorce rate is in those countries where almost all marry after falling in love and the lowest divorce rate is of course in the arabic world where most of the marriges are arranged. So there goes your second logic too...
To be in the middle --- no children who love and respect their parents will ever try to hurt thier parents feelings and at the same time no parents who love their children will try to force their own decision.
To answer the initial questions. Well I too think this type of scenario is very common and lots of us are in emotional dillema. Most fall in this situation just because they wanted to have a girlfriend like others . I have seen lots of foriegner BUHARIS who are so NEPALISED that they felt reborn as a Nepali. They try eating with hand ,wear 6 meters long saris and even respect the the in-laws as in Nepal.In contrary there are also lots of Nepali Buharis married to Non resident Nepalese who totally wants to discard the nepali identity. What I mean to say is that it has nothing to do with being foriengner or Nepali , the most important thing is to accept the situation. If some one is in love with you just you are YOU and accepts you as what ever you are then it is the right person to be with.
For us all Nepali people AAMA and BUBA have always been the centre of life . So we have to regard their feeling with a priority too. ´But as Durcheruwa pointed out the balance looks very delicate but in times it may not be so , depending upon the three parties involved. To get married it a lifes greatest decision and I suppose we have to discuss the matter with all the three parties concerned ....
...
Finally sorry for writing in the point of view of a male . but i am perfectly aware that the similiar dillema is also there for Nepales females studying working or residing in BIDESH.
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| neon |
Posted
on 30-Jan-02 08:15 PM
bachelor
here is the new version of that ukhan which is more precise and applicable:
BAU AAMA KO MAN CHHORA CHHORI MATHI, CHHORA CHHORI KO TAN N MAN ARKAKO CHHORA CHHORI MATHI :-))
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 09:31 AM
MAXIM:
very well said
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| NK |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 10:34 AM
hey, what's going on here? i think i am still sick, i'd better go to my beg again. one posting a day is enough i think. i will read this later.
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| krishna |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 10:46 AM
>I guess no nepali parents will ever ask
>their childern to jump from the cliff so
>the logic is invalid hai Krisna bro[?]
No. You are jumping to conclusions by predicating your attempt to invalidate the logic on, as you said, a "guess." Jumping of a cliff was meant literally AND figuratively, as in parents trying to dictate whom their son will marry. Also, do you deny that it is ever POSSIBLE for children to decline respectfully their parents' advice?
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| Saddened |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 11:54 AM
Hamro Sanskriti teaches us to respect our parents. It also teaches us to respect our sons and daughters. It is well stated in Sanskrit literature that "children after the age of 7" (I think) is considered to be your confidant and friend. Almost your equal. I know this is not true in practise but that's the way it should be.
Then who said you can't have an arranged marriage and love marriage in one. I was "matched" up with my wife. it was definately arranged. We met ... stayed in constant communication... fell in love and after a year got married.
Why can't it happen that way? Why can't everyone work together on this? Why do children always have to disagree with their parents and later realize that if one of their friends have suggested the same thing that they would have been ok with the ditto suggestion.
Lack of self esteem ... I think ... ya and I am sure Krishna will blame this on parents too...
Peace ... let the discussion continue ... this is healthy!!
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 12:56 PM
Saddened, if that worked for you, its great! Its not that uncommon though.
But it seems you are either 1. not a parent yet 2.a parent but not one where you have to exercise your parental authority repeatedly (ie have kids above the age of 5).
My take on this:
One can be a good parent when a child is younger but as the child grows older, you are the parent and not the friend. The role you play you define i.e either you want to popular with your kids and be their FRIEND OR you want to PARENT them. There is peer pressure EVERYWHERE and children are prone to this especially as they are going through - what I call - acceptance phase. They want to be part of a clique and this is very important to them so much so that they are willing to do anything. Unfortunately, there is a limit to how much you can influence your children at these ages. Society plays a big part in this. I do not think it is a lack of self esteem at all!! How you have reared the child through the ages, shows this. What kind of rules and conduct you have set within your child plays into this.
I think Krishna hit a very good and valid point - which brings me to the fact that it is ultimately how the child is reared by the parents (PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE) that will reflect on how the child acts later on in life. If a child is forced into marrying or is manipulated (or whatever word you choose) in marrying someone - if that marriage doesn't work out, who will be responsible? The parents? the partners? This is, yet, a question that has remained unanswered by our society. and its time someone started asking these questions!
An interesting case, (the guy's jaat and girl's jaat is not the same) a guy liked this girl so much that he married her here (us). He went home to visit and due to family pressure, he is going to divorce this girl. The girl is devasted! Whose fault is this??he claimed the parents are going to disown him if he does not marry a jaat ko kt. He has become engaged to another jaat ko kt.
I think:
a. the boy has been brought up with no values towards women and does not value this girl with whom he was (presumably)madly in love.
b. The boy has given into his family pressure and cannot think straight
c. the parents are blackmailing him i.e. the boy is being manipulated into thinking he is doing this to please his parents.
d. this boy is never going to grow into a father who will teach his children the virtues of being a good human being.
This is what our society values as being a good son??????
And all this for what???? to look good in society.
ewwwwwwww
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| Parijat |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 03:03 PM
I think it is important to realise that both love and arrange marriage can work well if both partners are willing to make it work. I bet all of us at one point in your life have seen both marriage fail. People always assume that arrange marriage is forced on somebody, but it might not be the case all the time. These days parents act like a matchmaker and young couples take it from there. If they like each other than they start dating, falling in love and eventually getting married. Just because you chose the partner does not mean that it will work our for rest of your life. So its up to you to decide what you want in life. Being in love with someone from different jaat is okay if you think both you guys can stand the test of time. If you can deal with each others cultural differences. But if you have any doubts in your mind that it might create a rift between you later because of family issues you might as well listen to your parents and stick with one of your kind.
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| Saddened |
Posted
on 31-Jan-02 04:41 PM
I don't need to but I will anyways .... I will respond to some of Sunakhari's comments...
Ms. Sunakhari, you are wrong on both counts ... 1) I am aparent and 2) My kids are over 5 ... not yet teenagers but over 5! :)
Anyway ... Life can be defined in one sentence. "Life is the many decisions you make throughout." I have argued in the past about a parent being a "Friend" ... sociologically speaking, FRIEND and PARENT represent two different roles and the relationship of the players governed by two different sets of norms. I don't think a parent can be a FRIEND. No ... however, the role of PARENT and the role of Friend have many overlaping norms and responsibilities. They are not completely mutually exclusive.
I agree totally with Parijaat's comments. They are right on the money.
I completely have no respect for people that marry a girl/boy they love and then under duress decided to give her/him up ... this is definitely a character issue ... definitely a self esteem issue ... a confidant person will never do all that ... an honest person with good character will never do that. You make your choices and you live with them ... you do not always have to LOVE the person the same way you initially did ... LOVE changes over time ... sometimes you might even think that you are falling out of love ... I mean as the old saying goes "Yeutai Palang Maa Sute Pachi Khutta ta Lagi Halcha" ... so in both Arranged marriage and so called LOVE marriage there are times when you wish you had never gotten married ... but as another saying goes ..." Men/Women ... you can't live with them you can't live without them".
That the law of nature ....!
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 01-Feb-02 12:52 PM
Saddened:
Typo in my sentence, it should have been read as 15 and not 5!
and yes I was specifically thinking of teenagers.
Therefore, maybe you could give your brain another jolt :).
Marriages do fail in every case. Its not the "way" one gets married but WHO one is married to that counts in the long run. And that WHO is a big question. The person you are marrying should be compatible to you. Not your parents, therefore, this meddling of the parents should be abolished from our system altogether! This is my opinion and I'm not dictating it. I call it meddling because how can a person EVER decide for another on that?
If a parent has had a say in the arrangement of a marriage, then shouldn't he/she be responsible in some way if the marriage was to fail?? I realize I am speaking from a woman's point of view, where I would like to see the parents of the girl be responsible in a BIG WAY.
Love marriages are very very different from being IN LOVE. I think we are referring here to the term "Love Marriage" rather than trying to find ways to denounce love's dubious ways :). Of falling in and out and fading....
And anyway, I think the term LOVE MARRIAGE sounds like a very hindi-film term to me. One doesn't marry for love, one marries for compassion, passion and compatibility. How is one to find this out with a stranger?????
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| Durcheruwa |
Posted
on 01-Feb-02 07:45 PM
Talkiing about marriage, I would like to know what you folks think of necessity to do blood screening before marriage. I know making blood screening mandatory prior to marriage in all Nepal is not practical but can we adopt this thing as a pilot program in big cities?
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 03-Feb-02 01:38 PM
I have been reading this thread with particular interest. A posting of a trivial looking dilemma of a fictional man has brought surprisingly finest responses and almost quotable remarks from some old and new fellow posters.
Indun poet wrote-
>If you have QUESTIONS, you have DOUBTS, if you have
>DOUBTS, you are NOT really in LOVE. So why stick with
>the GIRL.
>If that's not SO, then DON'T ask for HELP. You KNOW
>what better TO DO.
Maxim wrote-
>u cant have everything.. of course u'll piss someone or
>the other off. if u're old enough to fall in love u're old
>enough to understand that.
Well said. Very mature remarks.
While I enjoyed reading arguments of all fellow posters, I was very much impressed by Krishna’s remarks. I agree with that we should evaluate our parent’s recommendation based on its merits and reasons. Long live MERITOCRACY. If our parent do not have well-reasoned arguments, then DEMOCRACY should prevail. You are free to make your choice if you can take responsibility for that. Of course you will try to avoid hurting them by harsh words. Instead you will try to use your skill to convince them why your decision is right. Well, how much you succeed depends both on the education and philosophy of your parents and yours as well, plus your skill. You do your best DIPLOMACY.
I liked Sunakhari’s Kharaa kharaa questions to parents who want to meddle into their kid’s life. Also impressive was her remarks on so-called love-marriage.
Sunakhari wrote-
>Love marriages are very very different from being
>IN LOVE. I think we are referring here to the term
>"Love Marriage" rather than trying to find ways to
>denounce love's dubious ways :). Of falling in and
>out and fading....
>And anyway, I think the term LOVE MARRIAGE
>sounds like a very hindi-film term to me. One doesn't
>marry for love, one marries for compassion, passion
>and compatibility. How is one to find this out with a
>stranger?????
Well said. I think Krishna also put similar argument in a nutshell by referring to “ a fake dichotomy of love vs. arranged marriage”. So goes Parijat’s remark that “Just because you chose the partner does not mean that it will work our for rest of your life” and Mr. Saddened’s quote that says "You in the West marry the girl they love. We in the East Love the girl we marry". All these serve as a good cautionary note to juvenile ‘lovers’.
On the lighter side, Mr. Saddened was very funny. I laughed to my stomach’s content to read
>Who took care of you " pet ma juga pareko bela ma
>... atthu atthu parera aachi garna daudina parda ...
>Ahile alikati kehi payo bhandai ma ke ke na bhaye
>ko jasto ... timiharu ... ungreatfult lots!
>Without parents you don't exist. your basic "genotypical"
>identy is your parents ... without them you are nothing
>but a pile of $1.5 worth or chemicals!
At another place Mr. Saddened gave a serious and hilarious view on married life.
>LOVE changes over time ... sometimes you might even
>think that you are falling out of love ... I mean as the old
>saying goes "Yeutai Palang Maa Sute Pachi Khutta ta
>Lagi Halcha" ... so in both Arranged marriage and so
>called LOVE marriage there are times when you wish
>you had never gotten married ... but as another
>saying goes ..." Men/Women ... you can't live with
>them you can't live without them".
>That the law of nature ....!
So, I feel I learned a lot by reading this thread. Thank you contributors. I think now I can reflect on my arranged marriage that took place a century ago which I never dared to pick up and shake the dust off.
Nepe
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| Suman Dhakal |
Posted
on 03-Feb-02 06:23 PM
ok buddy. here is my feeling regarding the complicated situation you are in. u say that u are in love with a girl who is of different culture(am i right to assume that she is of the american culture?) and u want to marry her and at the same time u don't want to hurt ur parents feelings. i suppose ur parents want you marry a nepali girl. not an out of the ordinary situation.
first of all, you have to look at the pros and the cons buddy. u have known and loved ur parents all ur life and they have known and loved u all ur life. i belive there is no doubt that u love ur parents and they love u.
However, u have only known this gal for at the max four years since u said that u have been here for only four years. and u say that u love her. u didn't mention if she loves u. now, do u have more faith on ur parents' love or this girl's love? are u going to trust the love that has always been there for you or the love that u have only known for couple of years and not sure of?
i can say quite confidently say that what ur feeling for this gal is not love. i have been in this situation myself. ofcourse, u might say that we are two different people and u can't judge me by ur experience, which i agree with. but just remember, life is not as depictated in hindi movies and that romeo and juliet was fiction.
consider the stastics, 70% of the marriage fails in US and most of those marriages are not interracial marriage. it seems to be that urs is. odds are stacked against u buddy!! I personanly know 4 cousions of mine who had married a foreigner and all of them have failed. also, after marriage things change buddy. 90% of my high school friends(in US) who were "in love" with each other and lived together for about two years were divorced within 2 yrs of marriage. consider that.
also u have certain responsibility towards ur parents which far exceeds the responsibility u have towards this gal. also, u say that "but my destiny, i would say, was to love someone from differnt culture. u can't stop things from happening, so, it happened." c'mon, growup man. its all in ur hands. that is a sorry excuse. whatever u do, u do by choice. destiny doesn't force u to do things.
now ofcourse, we have to consider ur own happiness too not just ur parents'. if this girl had been a nepali girl of a different cast than urs and ur parents were still against ur choice, then i would have to say that ur parents would have to givein to ur choice. it would not be bad for either of u guys. That would be the Nash Equilibrium(game theory).
soemone who is of the same culture knows where u coming from and understands ur feelings. this is how i feel buddy. u can take it or leave it. ist all up to u but just don't use destiny as an excuse.
Suman Dhakal
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| CorrectionPundit |
Posted
on 03-Feb-02 06:47 PM
> 70% of the marriage fails in US
If you are referring to divorce rate, then it is fifty percent. I was reading a book of
Dr Laura about marriage, and she mentions it there.
Please write facts, rather than fictions , to buttress your argument.
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| krishna |
Posted
on 04-Feb-02 10:43 AM
Saddu,
So sorry...ur wrong again...I blame only to you (parent, singular) on this one! ;) Don't be saddened, only self-esteemed, yar.
>Lack of self esteem ... I think ... ya and I
>am sure Krishna will blame this on parents
>too...
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