| Username |
Post |
| Suman Dhakal |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 02:51 PM
Maoists have repeteadly shown that they are nothing but terroristrs who are out to loot and kill people in the name of "people's war". the movement should be called "the war against the people".
What have the maoists seriously achived in the last 7 years? Thet have done nothing except terrorize people, murder innocents countrymen and women. loot banks. My understanding of maoists' agenda was that they were fighting for the poor, the underrepresented and aginst the corrupt nepali government. But they are going against the very ideas that they claim they stand and fight for.
How can they claim to be fighting for the betterment of the country when they are out there destroying factories, telephone towers, closing down schools. Tourism has gone down significantly because of them. For a nation like ours, which is bearly setting its foot in the direction of development, these activities of the maoists are only helping to bring the country down. How does the killing of poor innocents policemen and civilians in the remote hills of nepal help stop corruption? How does their movement help the poor when the poor themselves are being murdered by them? Why has Baburam Bhattrai, who is suppoed to be this great intellectual, failed to see that their movement has become an utter failure. Their activities are only pushing the country backwards. Perhaps the most unfortunate thing for nepal and all the nepali is the sad fact that those who are in power and have the ability to change the country are the ones that are ruining it.
The nepali government is just as corrupt as the maoists. They have been killing the country and its people long before the maoists. The way I see it, neither of these people can do anything for the country.
Even if the government is able to defeat the maoists, there will still be people who will take arms against the government in the future. The maoists are the side effect of the ongoing abuse of the country and its people by the government. They maybe able to contain the maoists for the time being, but unless the government changes its act, another set of revolutinories will rise.
I do belive that we need a revolution in nepal. Unless these corrupt old politicans of yesteryears are not gotten rid of, there is no hope. I had great hopes on the maoists in the beginning. But it has become apparent that they are no better than the corrupt government itself. If maoists had killed those that were actually ruining the the country insted of the poors and insted of destroying whatever resources we had left, I would have wholeheartdly supported the maoists. For I belive that violence is justified when used aginst the evil. Its nice to strive for non violence means, but when there are no options, on must take arms.
However, maoists' arm struggle is not justifed in any sense. With the kind of people support they had in the beginning, they could have achived a lot. But now it seems that they have lost that support.
So i feel that the time has come for the people to choose between the two. Either start a REAL "peoples' movement" and lead the country in a new direction or pick the current government, a lesser of two evils, and go with it. I still belive that the there is hope for nepal with the current government in power. But there needs to be a change in the ways they do things.
First of all, the people in power need to be held responsible. I belive the corruption has been running rampant in nepal beacuse there is no fear in the hearts of the corrupt ones that anything bad will happen to them or that they can get caught. I belive that we need a strong media presence in nepal that can ask tough questions. make poeple responsible for their action. I don't think the current media has the guts to do so. We need someone along the lines of Bill O'rilley. I know many people don't like him, but let us be honest, he has the guts to ask tough questions. Thus, the people in the governemnt that should be working FOR the people need to realize that their actions are being watched and consequence can be severe. We need to inject fear into the hearts of these people. Then people will be more carefully and think of their actions twice.
This is just one thing among the many that needs to happen for our country to seriosuly head in the right direction. And i belive that it is still not too late.
Suman Dhakal
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| Santosh Neupane |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 03:58 PM
>>I don't think the current media has the guts to do so. We need someone along the lines of Bill O'rilley.
The current media dosen't have the guts to do so because:
1. The most popular media which are Radio Nepal and NTV are state-owned and runned media and it'll be pretty stupid for the gov. to have someone in the media who has a guts to show the face of the real culprits, wouldn't it?
2. The independent media (various newspaper) might have guts to do so, but it hardly means anything to most of the population because they are either speakers of NC or UML/ML Their job is to try to motivate people to get close towards their favored political parties and everybody knows that, so we can't count them
Does it mean there is nobody at all who have guts to hammer good questions to the gov. or anyone else and try to get the truth to the people. Yes, there are(i hope) few, but
3.A) They get arrested (don't even try now, because the gov. will put a maoist-stamp on you and your family won't even find you body). So, wouldn't you hide those guts, even you have them?
B) They need a effective(mostly listened) media to get those voices but for that, as i already said, there are two options, either Gov owned media or Opposition media. I think you get the idea now.
So, how can one be O'rilley in this condition?????
Let's assume there is one and people hear them too. But, looking at the history, in Nepal it dosen't matter how bad you are, even lot of people have witnessed you raping someone at 12:00 pm in New-road, nothing happens to you if have the Juice(money/power/connection). So, what's the purpose of using those endangered guts. Don't believe me? Look at Paras. What about Mr. Surya bahadur Thapa as a P.M of the country after 2 yrs of democracy. Look at our favorate mantris and all politicians.
As, a rule of thumb, when you point out the problem, you are supposed to suggest a choice too. But, guys.....honestly.......I don't have one.
If anyone have one, please let us know.......with justification if possible....
Santosh
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| YoYo |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 04:23 PM
Suman and Santhosh, you have made a good assessment of the situation in the country. Still, as you have admitted honestly, you could not figure out any solution. You are not the only one. In fact, everybody in Nepal is cluless like you. And that is because you are not allowing yourself to think liberally, independently and without bias about maobadi. Stop this nonsense to call them terrorists. Recognize them as revolutionary. Recognize their legitimate goal. Understand how far they have pushed by the government. Only then, you will be able to see a light on the horizon.
YoYo
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| Diabolic |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 04:35 PM
If I was a poor fellow who suffered numerous hungry days and ill-treatment from the village mahajan on a remote far-off region of Nepal, I would probably have been a Maoist. I have nothing in life to live for, so I might as well die with a cause. At least I will be a Martyr. This is the general feeling of the low-level cardres of the Maoists who are getting killed and are killing.
The top leaders like Prachanda and Baburam (kaattar bahuns) are probably peeing their pants every time they see a police.
How can we solve the problem of Maoists?
As Kunda Dixit said, bring them to the mainstream politics or we will have more violence to come.
Will the Army be successful?
No, not like this. If the army has absolute power, then it might but with more blood. Right now, the Maoists are within the UML and even in NC. They go fight with the Army and everytime they need to hide, they are with NC or UML. It will take some time for the government to realize this. No wonder they are chopping the heads off the dead and taking with them.
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| Suman Dhakal |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 05:53 PM
YoYo, I can understand your point when u say "..And that is because you are not allowing yourself to think liberally, independently and without bias about maobadi. Stop this nonsense to call them terrorists"
My understanding has been that they were invited for talks. And the government even had talks with the maoists. However, they were unable come to an agreement. Why did the talk fail? what do the maoists really want? I think we can all agree on one thing. The point being that if the maoists really want to participate in the government and want to have their say, they must do so by participating in the election and if they do win the elction they have the right to govern the country, just as the nepali congress and and the communits have been doing. And the current government even invited them to participate in the election. I don't think anyone can deny them that right.
Now what more can they want? If they do not want to go through the democratic way of electing a government, how else? Do they just want to get rid of the current govt. and establish their rule? Let us assume that the current Deuba government decides, after all, to let the Maoist run the country? Does he have the right to do so? After all, wasn't his party elected by the people and it is the poeple that decide who gets to serve the country?
Another of their demand is to totally dissolve the existing constituation and write a new one. Unless the maoists are willing to work with other parties and the rest of the population, are they really in a position to demand that? Can maoists really get rid of whatever there is left of the monarchy once and for all and rid Nepal of the monarchy altogether? No, the decision to do that can not rest solely on the hands of the maoists. It is the country as a whole that must decide.
So what do Maoists really want? If they want a shot at forming their government, they are more than welcome to do so by going through a democrtaic due process of electing a government.
The last talk failed, and the maoists took to their old ways of killing innocent people. so what should we call the maoists? call them "freedom fighter"? what about the freedom of those who died? the freedom to live.
I do not live in a fantasy world where everything is nice and peaceful where everyone loves each other. When a country goes through major political changes, there is always violence and people loose their lives. History tells us this and also evident from the the things that are going around the world at present. I am willing to accept this. But have we gained anything from the last 7 years of "peoples' movement". Has the country moved forward as a result of their movement. NO. If anything, it has moved backwrad.
So how are we to view the Maoists and their actions?
One solution to the present problem is to give maoists yet another chance for talks. The government and the maoists need to come together if they have the intrest of the country in their hearts. A third party needs to host the talks. The government and the maoists both need to be willing to listen to each others demands. Both need to agree on things that the whole country is willing to support it. If the talk still fails as a result of the government being irrational, then something must be done to them. If the talk fails beacuse maoists are not willing to cooporate and compete in the election and go back to the old ways of killing, then must be gotten rid of.
Here i'm not talking in favor of any of the two. I'm jut saying let us follow the democratic ways of doing things.
YoYo, u tell me if i'm not being "liberal" here.
and to answer Santosh's question, yes Bill O'rielly CAN exist in nepal given the conditions. Santosh, i'm not saying that we should have O'Rielly over night. Takes time to change things. But it IS possible. Would any of us have belived that maoists could have emerged in such a way if someone had told us what we know today, say 10/11 years ago? I think most of us would have said no. And how dead wrong we would have been. I agree with you in one regard that it is not possible for the media of the likes of KTM post to be a mouth piece of the poeple in such a way as O'Rielly. However, just as the maoists were able to spread their propaganda and influence people, so can an independet media. Perhaps an "underground" media. Thats is the kind of media I have in mind. Not for the sake of making money, but to make people see. Individuals who have the intrest of the country in their mind coming together and showing people the ill effects of the government. Just like all the people came together to do away with the panchayat system in nepal.
I think i would not be too far from the truth to say that there are people in nepal who have the intrest of their country in their hearts. Not everyone is corrupt. And at this day and age, where things are more transparent than they were during the panchayat system, the government can not easily supressed individuals that speak against the government. Once one is able to make people see and get their support, once the people are behind you, govt. can hardly do anything. Thus, it is my belief that an independet "underground" media can exists that will not be afraid to ask tough questions. Paras and all these corrupt individuals are getting away because no one has taken a strong actions against them. And strong actions is what badly needed in nepal.
Suman Dhakal
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 06:07 PM
Maoists believe:
1. Election was never on their side / neither will it be never, as long as
its fair and free election. Where on earth extreme "Political agendas" are
supported by peoples by vote "FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS". No where.
They will say that there will be no FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS.
Even Marxs said election is not a method to push extreme
communist to top of power
2. They don't want political rivals. NO opposition parties. They want
one party system. They want monopoly on power.
3. They don't let peoples have freedom to talk. Though BRB claims,
but, its like Musako Bathan ma Kashi jane Biralako promise not to eat
any fellow tirtha yatri "MUSA".
4. They want to dismantle current social skeleton, bring new "rich" peoples,
just trying to reshuffle.
5. The past elections have shown that ELECTION is not in their favor.
Only gun is their friends to power.
So, I don't think Maoists will come under Bahudal system. Either they will
bring Maoists to Nepali Power house (though it may not last more,
experience: from Cambodia. Being opposition is easier then, being
on government. If you do not have power, you can keep on pointing
others weakness, and inable parts, but, when you are authority, then,
you can do nothing if you are running out of resource. This is what happened
with nepali kangress, because they were also fighting for peopels cause
till 2046, but, after 2046 they turned to be another set of corrupts. Same
thing is happening in Maoist side, they are looting banks, and peoples
thus, dreaming to be new rich).
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| Santosh Neupane |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 06:13 PM
YOYO said:
And that is because you are not allowing yourself to think liberally, independently and without bias about maobadi. Stop this nonsense to call them terrorists. Recognize them as revolutionary. Recognize their legitimate goal. Understand how far they have pushed by the government. Only then, you will be able to see a light on the horizon.
yoyo, i don't understand what do you call thinking liberally. I am thinking independently. I never said that the goverment is doing great but how can you justify the deeds of maoists? What about you understanding the fear of peoples when they see a person taken out of his bed and killed infront of their family just because he does not support them? What do you think when they come to your house and ask you for money and tell you if you don't have it ready by certain time, you will be punished?
how would you explain that? Now, forget about the gov for a second here.Lets forget about the kathmandu basi also for a second. Lets talk about the maoists and the poor peoples in the country. A simple teacher in gorkha gets killed. why?
Ram bahadur from the next door was cut in several pieces by maoists last night when he was preparing to have dinner with his family last night. why?
By the way, did you hear that a girl was raped by maoists. why?
Ok, if you say they were not committed by maoists but someone else who is trying to benifit from the name and fear "maoists" then why does not anyone hear any clearifications from maobadis?
And you tell me why i should support maobadis? give me one good reason, I'll be a great fan of maoists from tomorrow. The reason better be good though. Don't give me any reasons saying what has the gov. done or not done for the peoples or to maoists. Just tell me regarding these feared poor peoples of the country sides of nepal who have been killed, raped or just been given a fear.
Please Justify their action independently and liberally.
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| Santosh Neupane |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 06:47 PM
Suman!
you are right! There might be a underground media but first being an underground media at the same and asking(interviewing, as O'rielly) the gov. officials questions just don't go along. I mean why a gov. official would give interview to an underground media and worst why would he do that if he knows he's going to be hammered. Plus, what's the benifit? I mean we don't even need any media to show the culprits here, everybody knows that. For example, people didnot come to know about the murder of the singer by Paras, they didn't have to. They saw it.....or just heard about it from the witness. Now, assuming there is our"ideal" media in nepal, what would it do? Call paras for interview?......
As, you said we don't need media, we need action against these peoples, but my friend, unfortunately the peoples who are supposed to and have power to take action are commiting these crimes. Now, who is going to take action against Paras??
Yes, there is a way to take action, there has to be a revolution ( Goss!!! how many of them nepal needs) and some new group can com eto power and take action. Let's realize that that's the only way. But, the million dollar question is who is going to be that group and how can the people be sure?
what guarenty do we have that after that revolution, Thapa, Girija, Bame, Makune all these bastered won't come back to power again??????
We don't even need to change the gov. if the supreme court can give decesions against anyone....but again, in the name of balance of power, there are lots of loop holes if the other branches of the nations are corrupt......
Hey I don't know what to say.....I feel like asking YoYo but well.......I also know what's his answer going to be.
Anyway, let's hear some more though.....
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 06:48 PM
SN:What about you understanding the fear of peoples when they see a person taken out of his bed and killed infront of their family just because he does not support them?
HG: Thats WAR STRATEGY, thats what MAoist supporters voice everytime.
Most of the Maoist supporters have one unique answer "You don't understand
them". They don't explain, so what? The reason, they also "don't understand
themselves". They are running in vain. Since they don't believe on
debate, they will further write "its useless to talk with you in such topics,
rather you spend more time on your area of expertise". For a Nepali,
now, "Maobadi", is the main topic and is the only topic. Why they say, so,
because they "don't have guts to face the questions, or public interest
why how when where ... ". Their final answer is , "as time comes, it may
take 40-50years", and surpriingly they could not wait 5years. Now 7 years
gone since MAoist war, we getting worst.
SN: What do you think when they come to your house and ask you for money and tell you if you don't have it ready by certain time, you will be punished?
HG: The Maoists will not come to any fellow Maoist's home, because all Maoists
are Sarbahara, "landless, foodless, moneyless". The Sajha.com surfers
who support Maoists also have nothing to lose, because "landless,
foodless, moneyless, ". and the additional reasons Maoist chase
peoples having heart to turn them heartless.
One thing we have to realize is that the Maoist war will atleast prolong
another 5 years, and we will need emergeny at least another 3-4 years
to corner them in north-west corner, and need more share on budget
to counter this war. No one should think that it will end in a few months.
The first year will be required to learn how to fight with Maoists, and
2nd year there will be balance in power and only from third year,
either Maoists will start winning the war or Army will start cornering them.
Right now Maosits have enough money to hire poor guys for them.
So, lack of fund in govt. side can be the only reason for Maoists gain.
Thats why they wanted to fire on Army and let army continue war for
long. In next 5 years, I guess there will be as much as 10,000 loss
of lives from Maoist side (4000), army+police side (2,000), innocent
citizens (2000) and others in gray zone (2000).
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| YoYo |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 09:54 PM
All of you have asked several million dollar questions. Here is one from me.
Suppose you want to get rid of monarchy from Nepal. What would you do ? Would you something different than what Maobadi is doing ?
If No. I rest my case.
YoYo
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| SSJ 3 |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 10:00 PM
And why do u wanna end monarchy??? UK has a king too, ya know. So does Japan. The king is pretty powerless now. I don't think he needs to be removed.
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| Gosaikunda |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 11:20 PM
Hey
Mr. Nepali
See oters countries?
Think of Why they are developed?
Their country has faced the worst of the worst economical condition and had got no AIDs like you beggars are getting now.
Nepal would be better only if all of you beggars realize it.
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| Huri |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 07:00 AM
Why is ending monarchy the main means of the so called people's war? Come on, Japan, Thailand, Bhutan, and above all Great Britain, all have their monarchs. Are they suffering from it? NO. So why do you think is Nepal suffering from it? Even if, Nepal is suffering for it, will its removal bring changes in the country for better? There are some good sides of monarchy too? Don't you think so? One of them being the symbol of unity.
But anyway, here I am not trying to support our King/Queen and all the royals as an individual.
I can for once understand Maoists and feel pity for them, for their determination to see Nepal free from the corrupt leaders. but I can and will never be able to justify their violent acts. How can you opt destruction, when you want conservation? How can killing of anything solve any problem?
Maoists are also big "chors." It was known that even some of our political leaders were funding the maoists due to fear when Maoists were out to collect donations from everyone, civilians, leaders with threat . So now you maoists supporters tell me, if your move was to get rid of these corrupt leaders and do good for the country, why would you take the money from them and let them free? So are you not hungry of money too??????????
This is 21st century, and gone are the days when a country was led by politics. Now a country gets led by its economy. Otherwise why would China, a communist country be involved so much in trade and not in closed economy? Come on, does anyone think that communism will survive today? If it did not work for Soviet Union then how is it going to work for Nepal? And even if Maoists do bring communism, can a country like Nepal, a resourceless country, survive on itself?
We should move with the time and look around and learn.
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| nepalibhakt |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 12:29 PM
The government is right about Moaists, but sad to say the Maoists are right about the governmrnt too, dont have to agree with me, it's just my thought.and like we have known our country and the people for so long we canot say that the government really cares for the country, in a short span of democratic establishment of the government we haven't had a chance to see the government doing anything for the country, except leaders of our corrupt political parties wanting to be the head of the govenment and wanting to lead the country in the way they personally feel like not how it should or how the nepaleses people want to.During the whole process of country's develpoements there are huge amount of money to be made, so kill some people if you have to but we wont change, and that's the motto of our dear politician.The rebels on the other side have a different story, why dont they kill the top leaders instead of innocent and the poors, why?, well it might be because the maoist wants to get rid of the the huge burden of poor and helpless people who in all their lifetime has seen nothing more than hunger and injustice.The innnocents could be victims of their own fear, and the maosists justmade it easy for them to finally find the peace they were long seeking for.look people nepals current situation is not becasue of just one reason but can be justified in so many ways, i dont want to jump into a conlusion rt away, there is more we should expect as i think the maoists will go far all the way till they still have people supporting them.and when there will be nothing left to fight more for then will Nepal, our country change.
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