| Username |
Post |
| arnico |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 03:21 PM
Their massive attack in Achham, five days before the deadline for parliament to vote about the ratification of the state of emergency raises some worrisome questions. . .
It seems very mysterious: why would they carry out such an attack NOW? It would appear to be in their best interest to wait until AFTER parliament rejects the state of emergency to carry out large attacks… Why would they do it now -- almost as an invitation for parliament to unanimously ratify and extend the state of emergency?!?!? Why in the world would the Maoists try to do that? Why would they want to live under a state of emergency that allows the army to go after them without civilian oversight, and that does not even allow journalists to report about conflicts, or to sympathize with them??? The Maoists -- if they are who we think they are – are the biggest losers if the state of emergency continues (aren't they?). So why do they invite it? Or do we not know who they are? Are they just agents of some other forces/sponsors whose mission is not the Maoist agenda, but generally causing chaos, and who benefit from a prolonged state of emergency?
Well, do we even know whether the Maoists really carried out the attacks, or whether someone else did? Or whether it was staged? Or whether it even took place? Without the media being allowed to independently investigate events, what DO we know? These are questions to keep in mind as we watch the events unfold in the coming days...
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| YoYo |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 05:09 PM
It is interesting to see how thoola thoola Nepali intellectuals have been unable to decipher Maobadi's strategy. They are clueless to understand why they left 'peace talk', they are again clueless to understand why they are not afraid of continuation of emergency.
They left socalled 'peace talk', because they did achieve, without the knowledge of any of us, what they had expected from the 'talk', that is the publicity of their demands through the government media. They are not stupid to expect more than that from a talk obviously limited to Deuba. If you think they came to the 'talk' hoping to get their demand fulfilled, you are naive.
They forced the government to use the last and the ultimate force the government has, that is military power, right now, because they know the whole system is about to crumble down because it is standing on nothing but corrption and people's resenment is reaching to an explosive high. If not now when ?
Government brought emergency to attack maoists. Now maoists want to turn it into a weapon directed against the government. Common people are against emergency, they are suffering from it. But the government wants to prolong it by using the money supposed to be used for development. You guess the outcome.
Maoists are very smart. They are not going to be deafeted by the government.
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| Ho ho, lau lau! |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 07:19 PM
Kura ekdum thik!
Killer Paras has secret army kept in the hill of Dang and Dailekh. He use this secret army to attack Dang and put the blame on Maobadi. So emergency can be made and poor janatas can be killed. Now again Paras use his secret army to attack in Accham so blame goes to the peace loving Maobadi daju bhai, didi bahini. This blame will make the parliament renew emergency rule! This is secret Pras conspiracy..down with Paras and his father...long live Mao dai!
Ho ho, lau lau
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| Achilles |
Posted
on 17-Feb-02 07:50 PM
>Their massive attack in Achham, five days
>before the deadline for parliament to vote
>about the ratification of the state of
>emergency raises some worrisome questions. .
>.
>
>It seems very mysterious: why would they
>carry out such an attack NOW?
There is nothing mysterious about it. Why now ? Because they CAN.As Mallory said of climbing Everest, 'because it's there'.
> It would
>appear to be in their best interest to wait
>until AFTER parliament rejects the state of
>emergency to carry out large attacks…
If they can take on the military, inflict such heavy damages during the
emergency, how does it matter to them if the emergency is renewed or
not ? They have to fight the military anyway, if not now, then sometime in the future.
>Why would they do it now -- almost as an
>invitation for parliament to unanimously
>ratify and extend the state of emergency?!?!?
Emergency doesn't seem to have made any difference to
Maoists ability to fight. Sure, the soldiers have killed a few hundred Maosists in the past but it seems unlikey (talk about understatement:) they can supress Maoists.
> Why in the world would the Maoists try to
>do that? Why would they want to live under
>a state of emergency that allows the army to
>go after them without civilian oversight,
>and that does not even allow journalists to
>report about conflicts, or to sympathize
>with them???
This is pretty much what is happening now, isn't it ? And it doesn't seem to have deterred Maoists from what happened today.
> The Maoists -- if they are
>who we think they are – are the
>biggest losers if the state of emergency
>continues (aren't they?).
You seem to assume that the army can easily crush the Maoists if they want. But hasn't this incident proved otherwise ?
> So why do they
>invite it? Or do we not know who they are?
>Are they just agents of some other forces/
>sponsors whose mission is not the Maoist
>agenda, but generally causing chaos, and who
>benefit from a prolonged state of emergency?
It is always easy to point to other 'forces'. In the eighties, Indira Gandhi always used to talk about the "foreign hand " to mask her own failings. Seems we are doing the same. If there is 'wrong' question to ask, this is it. Looking for easy scapegoats both external (India ?) and internal (Palace ?)
>
>Well, do we even know whether the Maoists
>really carried out the attacks, or whether
>someone else did?
How do we know Dipendra really killed his parents ? From the weight of evidence, I guess. Same here.
> Or whether it was staged?
Very unlikely. Even if we don't give much credence to government sources (media and others), how about BBC ? or AP ? Surely, they must have their sources checked.
> Or whether it even took place? Without
>the media being allowed to independently
>investigate events, what DO we know? These
>are questions to keep in mind as we watch
>the events unfold in the coming days...
I agree, it's too early. We just have to wait some more to get the facts straight. But we can perhaps say that what lies ahead appears to be a long, protacted civil war, with neither side (Army or Military) winning the war and each side winning a battle here and losing one there. This one is surely Maoists's win.
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| MaTaMare |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 01:32 PM
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ho, Ho, Ho, Lau, Lau, Lau, .... ke bhayo yo sansar ma ... peace loving maobadi!! Isn't that an oxymoron!
The reason Nepal is where it is now is because it is populated by cowards. We have "phosro phurti" ... hamilai phurti cha "We were never colonized!" ... British didn't want us. We were like a migrane to them ...
Aayo gorkhali ... only negligible people are actually can be referred to as Gorkhali ..
Hami kan Mount Everest Cha ... people are proud as if they themselves created the Mount Everest.
We are bunch of lazy people. Low productivity and low self respect defines us.
No kidding the likes of BRB and PKD are causing havok in Nepal!
Tsk..Tsk.. Tsk ..
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| 13-thum |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 02:03 PM
Arnico Ji,
The maoist's massive attack just before the voting of extension of emmergency shows that they don't care weather there will be emergency or not. Achham incident proves that they have not suffered from the army operation and emmergency.
The biggest looser from the emmergency is not maoist but the economy of Nepal sepcially the tourism sector. Maoist wants to destroy the economy of Nepal and make government of Nepal bankrupt so that the funding to the army will dry out.
They seem to think that they can fight with army now. So they don't really care about the army operation. With each attack in the army they are prized with sophisticated weapon and high spirit.
As said by Dhruva Adhikari in BBC, now the general perception is "Khai Army Le Pani Sakla Ra.................", where as before the declaration of emmergency, the perception was "Hami Sanga Army Ta Chha Ni, Army Parichalan Gare Pachi Sabai Thik Huncha".
Thanks
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| sangita |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 03:01 PM
I agree that we need to complicate the "maoist" picture and look beyond easy labels to see who really stands to benefit from continuing instability in the country. Armed conflict is never irrational (though its manifestations may appear to be that way). There is always an underlying reason for violence, economic, political or other. Unfortunately, the current media environment in Nepal does not allow for what we desperately need - real and committed investigative reporting. In the current situation, the very least we ABSOLUTELY have to do is begin asking the more probing questions- questioning the information we are being fed.
Right now, those of us outside Nepal, have a very important role to play. We have been passive for too long!!!!!!
...and time is beginning to run out.....
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| yogita |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 03:34 PM
Sangita,
You said that "those of us outside Nepal have a very important role to play." I am wondering if you have any ideas of what needs to be done by us. What role should we play?
Thanks,
Yogita
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| BaleBale |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 04:14 PM
I think Arniko raised a valid question. Who are these Maoists? That’s what I have been thinking, along with many Nepalis I know. Why are they targeting just Police and Army jawanns? Why not any corrupt politicians? As far as I can recall, there has not been any casualty with any politicians higher up. Only the lowly, junior level party cadres seem to have been affected. Do all these politicians have so much security? Is it easier to attack a barrack and kill hundreds of soldiers rather than attack a corrupt politician? It seems to me that Maoists probably could have made a better statement by punishing a corrupt leader higher up in a party rather than dicking around with some no-name low-level part cadres or public. All attacks towards politicians (like bombing Sushil Koirala’s residence) seem to only barely bring down the fences/walls of their residence down. What are the real intensions of the Maoists? Or, are they for real? I am increasingly puzzled by the fact everyday……
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| Sangita |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 04:37 PM
What should we do? That is of course the million dollar question. First we need to get organized - each one of us expressing our opinions independently makes us feel bettter and more connected but we need to get more organized and think of actionable possibilities in terms of what we can practically execute and what will benefit Nepal in some way.
I am just tired to feeling like a helpless observer of what is going on in Nepal. The absence of accurate information is one area where we could possibly do soemthing right away. With the media in Nepal existing under a "self or imposed" censorship, no one seems to have the full story and many stories never see the light of day. Could we perhaps work on trying to get alternative perspectives out there? Could we try to provide a more critical (yet constructive) commentary on the current situation? I know it is a small step - but I think it would provide a more a useful first step to actually doing something at least moderately constructive. If I can get committment from a few people I would be willing to work on this - and linking in other Nepalese diasporic communities to try to start an action oriented dialogue.
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| Huku |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 06:12 PM
Sangita making artifical noise. nonsens .
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| scary |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 06:24 PM
In my point of view there are 3 types of maobadi
1. poor people from villages to whom, power hungry maobadi has brain washed
2. power hungry Intellect who really want power.
3. people who have weapon in their hand and likes to loot
they are running in symbiosis. power hungry intillects are twisting the mind of villagers and gave them a hope with money looted from country. And creating more lootera.
on the other hand, government has the same symbiosis
being protected by national security force, likes to loot country's Rajaswa
so, in both ways they are looting..
both are hungry 4 power, since power is limited there will aways gonna be struggle. Yesterday it was political struggle now it is war.
There will be no doubt more blood bath is going to happen.
this is the class war between pajero culture vs poor villagers, maoism is the by product of curruption, neoptism, castism and mis use of power and supression of poor people.
we can only see who is going to get the power, maoist, currupt Neta or Palace ?? just sit dawn as watch, how many nepali will be killing each other.
isn't that scary...
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| Desh Premi |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 07:43 PM
Shangatiji,
Desh bahira basera desh ko lagi fushro maya dekhauna tapali lai ali kati Pane saram lagdinna. Nepal DOES NOT expect any kind help from selfish people who left their motherland just for better life. This is our problem and we will solve it ourself. You people rather think about your current problems ...how to pay bills, how to save job...,,,,all shits like that. ...
Please leave us alone.
Desh Premi Nepali
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| !@0 |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 07:54 PM
Why not raise fund for Nepal Army and Nepal Police to help fight the Mao. By the way is there any account for Nepal Army or Nepal police for mao eradication movement so that people outside Nepal could contribute ?
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| curious |
Posted
on 18-Feb-02 11:35 PM
desh premi,
at least sangita is trying to help in someways even though she is outside nepal. what is so wrong about that. and tell me are you giving proper information to the nepalis in this matter or are you just a spectator with big words?
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| BKJ |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 01:19 AM
Desh Premi!
You are a freaking moron. Do you know that expats bring more than a 1 billion US dollar to Nepal's sinking economy. If you think I am exxaxerating check the sources. Regardless of domicile, intention is what counts...I think Sangeeta shows a deep frustration of this chaotic situation in Nepal. All of us feel deeply about the situation and are trying to provide help in anyways. One forecast to you my friend. In the next 10 yrs. ex-pat communities will play significant role in country's development. So watch what you are saying..
Before I deviate from the topic "who are mao's?"
They are people like you and me but only difference is these are people with limited access to opportunities. These are people who lost hopes in themselves and the country. These are educated groups of people just like you and me but opportunity less, job less....This problem is not going to go away by eradicating their existence. Unless Nepal and Nepalese work together to create opportunities for themselves, nothing is going to change.
So this is a result of immense depression, frustration and loss of hope. So mind you folks this is someting we have to learn to deal with unless we all initiate to work together to uplift our spirits.
Sometimes, I feel its all a dream. How can a land full of gods be in such a chaos? The faith which we had in our fundamental beliefs seem to be dissapearing. Unless we revive that faith get used violence and chaos around us!!!
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| villageVoice |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 11:07 AM
So, all the Nepali diaspora, what plans do you have for poor Nepalis back home? Is there ever going to be a concerted action?
True, the Nepali diaspora has been providing considerable financial support to the nation. But isn't money, without attendant institutions to channel them, just going down the drain - to corrupt politicians, unscrupulous businessmen, greedy private schools?
I suggest that each able-bodied member of diaspora, at least those who are past the early stage of survival, spend sometime in Nepal, and get a first-hand feel of the townspeople and villagers, inform themselves of national issues, poverty, diseases, the daily grind... It's time we set up organizations, a la Peace Corps, that recruits Nepalis in the US, UK, Australia, etc, for some kinda fellowships back home.
Only then will your honesty and wisdom have converts in Nepal. Talking is fine; it at least breeds new ideas, but it can only achieve so much ...
I really appreciate Sangita's take on Nepali media. I am willing to work together with her.
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| arnico |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 01:08 PM
I was offline for 2 days... so it has been interesting to watch reactions...
A few quick replies:
Achilles and terathum: you may be right that Maoists have reached a point where they no longer care about the state of emergency... on the other hand, if we see recent news, the opposition parties now want to bring down the government and end the state of emergency precisely *because* the attack happened... so if any one can make some sense of the situation, please speak out.
Desh Premi: you have heard some replies already, but I want to reiterate that your remarks are quite un-called for. You throw all the over-seas Nepalis together into one basket and talk of them as if they were traitors. I don't know based upon what sample size you draw such a conclusion... from my interactions with 1000+ overseas Nepalis in Europe, North America, and Southeast Asia, I think there is too much diversity to put everyone into the same basket... but if there are two traits that seem to be common among most (yes, perhaps not all), they are the following:
1) a genuine concern for Nepal and what is going on in Nepal now.
2) the hope to return to Nepal some day, after having pursued opportunities that are not possible back home (whether to get a degree, or to feed Ama back home in Baglung, or to buy a little plot of land and stop being a sukumbasi in Jhapa, or even, to have the opportunity to speak openly).
Yes there are people of Nepali ethnic origin who left the country long ago and who are now citizens of other countries (many of whom have never set foot in the country)... and yes, some of them may no longer be concerned about Nepal (the three lakh Burmese of Nepali origin have much more difficult lives than many of us)... but if you are replying to this thread then those are *not* the people you are addressing.
Sangita: do you want to start a new thread discussing what role we can play? It is getting kind of buried here...
(and I am just wondering, are you the Sangita I saw last week? -- you can e-mail me directly if you like)
Villagevoice: good points. Recent visits to *rural* as well as urban Nepal have made it quite clear that many people are *not* short on cash... but people *are* short on opportunities for investment. Note the oversubscription of any share offerings at the stock market. ...And to add some illustration to the magnitude of the remission economy: during my last visit to Nepal the Thai Airways Bangkok-Kathmandu flight was almost empty. The Kathmandu - Bangkok flight was completely full in economy class. 80% of the passengers were traveling on an airplane for the first time. Almost all were going to Malaysia to work. I don't know whether this was just a strange pair of flights... but the passengers did talk about 30,000 Nepalis having gone to Malaysia since new labor agreements were signed a few months ago. And no, desh premi, most of these people did NOT plan to abandon Nepal... they went to work overseas for a few years because Nepal did not offer them the economic means to survive.
Villagevoice: one topic that may be worth thinking about and discussing in more detail: How much diversity is there in the Nepali diaspora, and who is to be included? Who is a typical Nepali of a foreign city? I may be completely wrong (and it may be stupid to even try to define who is typical... someone who represents the majority, or the first person we think of in association with that city...then who is the speaker?)... but here is one attempt at trying to illustrate the diversity among the "typical" Nepali abroad (without even mentioning the diversity within each place):
[disclaimer: this is solely based on my observations and what I have heard, and it is not meant to describe everyone in the that city]
Delhi: mid-30s male from hilly areas, working as guard or driver.
Boston: early-20s (either gender) from Kathmandu, attending college while working in the evenings.
Dubai: family father from anywhere in Nepal, exchanging 3 years of manual labor for a new house or to pay off a family debt.
Seoul: son of wealthy family in Myagdi, working in a factory.
Bombay: late-teen female from Sindhupalchok or Nuwakot who was sold to a brothel
Hongkong: families of ex-Gurkha soldiers or of children of Gurkha soldiers who were born in Hongkong.
Bangkok: second generation Manange, trading in handicrafts and other things.
Rangoon: fourth generation descendant of former Gorkha soldier who decided to settle in Burma.
Without actual demographic data on overseas Nepalis such a characterization is bound to be flawed, but I hope my point is clear: that as we try to react in a time of difficulty and to try to figure out what it is that the Nepali diaspora can do, we have to think more about who the Nepali diaspora is, and to what extent the Nepali diaspora in the city we are most familiar with does or does not represent the rest of the Nepali diaspora.
I can easily imagine the possibility (as well as the difficulty) of getting the Nepali diaspora in Boston mobilized... or the Nepali diaspora with internet access... but how do we go beyond?
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| Priya |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 01:44 PM
Desh Premi,
You are a typical dumb Nepali who does not want to see anybody come up with a good idea. You are a kuwa ko bhyaguta. I hope you rot in kuwa. I would not have to waste my time getting angry with a dumb F__ck like you.
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 04:06 PM
1. Why is it in Maoists' interest to attack when it did? I would say it is in their interest. Nepalese army can never succeed to provide full security thru 14 zones and 75 districts. Under emergency, RNA cadets will be either thinned out trying to cover more areas or concentrated in few areas cuz of hightened security. Either condition is appropriate scenario for Maoist attack since they can choose where to attack and make the most impact.
Who are the Maoists? I would surmise this:
few disgruntled political entrepreneur from the far left + whole bunch of disenchanted poverty striken "gaunles", quite a few "half-baked" ideological zealots, and foreign source in whoe interest it is to perpetuate instability in the Himalayas. The combinatin is potent if you realize how corrupt, and worthless our "netas" are.
Just note how Maoist arms are getting more sophisticated while the RNA still use outdated equipments. Sooner of later, those few choppers will be falling off the sky.
Maoists have following advantages:
1. Better morale
2. Better arms
3. sympathetic people in their stronghold
4. Luxury to choose the point of atttack with concentrated force
5. Easy assimmilation in the crowd
6. Foreign power interested in destabilizing Nepal
7. Disunity in the ruling party
8. Opportunistic opposition parties
9. Citizens/urbanites unconvinced in the current democratic practice
10. Lack of seriousness in the current leadership!
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| villageVoice1 |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 06:44 PM
Arnico:
You have raised some important points yourself. Wish I had answers to them. Let's talk--brainstorm, if you like--time-permitting.
But at some point, we will have to get down to action. Some of us have to lead--and others do our bits--to make any contribution to institution-building in Nepal. No matter how small. I strongly believe that it's time we started, as I sugested earlier, some kinda recruitment among Nepali diaspora. I saw lots of that in Seoul, for example--Korea benefitting from its diaspora.
Doesn't matter if our diaspora is not so vibrant--and prosperous--as Korean American. If the intention is honest, something *will* get done. It's just a matter of effective organization. SEBS, ex-Budhanilkantha student body in US, for example. is well-organized. Peace Corps has tons of expeirnce in this field, and there is groundswell of goodwill among PC volunteers who have served in Nepal. We should tap these resources while exploring others.
If I come up with US examples, it's because I am in the US. I am sure there are similar areas of goodwill/organzations elsewhere.
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| Desh Premi |
Posted
on 19-Feb-02 09:26 PM
Dear friends:
I am expecting excuse as my last posting was too generalized. I realized I made mistake. But still I am standing on same point. Actually I was pointing out those so-called intellectual Nepali who left their motherland for easy life.
I have seen lot of people became furious and started to bad mouth at me. This is obvious. Do not think that I am jealous of your achievements neither I have not anything to do your private life. I just don’t want hypocrisy. Please don’t show fake sympathy from there itself. What kind of help we can expect from you? Sending couple of bucks for your family or posting good reviews here in discussion board doesn’t solves our problem.
I am not here for an academic debate. I know you guys give 100 of better examples to prove me wrong. Those people, who told me FREAKING MARON, please ask your heart and try to find out answer what makes you to leave country? Is not that your selfishness only?
Again I want you people to leave us alone and think how to go ahead from there.
Desh Premi Nepali
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 21-Feb-02 02:25 PM
Desh Premi Jee: What do you mean by leaving you alone? Does it bother yuo so much when expat Nepalese show concern for their homeland? Why do you think people leave Nepal only for selfish reason?
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