| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 01:32 PM
Rajendra,
I read your words with interest. Words
like yours, brimming with palpable anger,
convince me of misguided sincerity of
Nepal's educated elite -- whether in Nepal
or outside.
That is why, I sit here and ask myself: With
such a noble call for putative Nepali harmony by
bidwans like yourself and others over the years,
WHY is it that today we see all these ethnic
tensions and communal frustrations flaring
up all over the place in our dearest
matri.bhoomi?
And, once these ethnic tensions and
communal frustrations have come to the
fore in Nepal, why is that Nepal's
intellectuals and others have consistently
failed to give us non-intellectuals a
cogent framework for ANALYZING these
tensions and frustrations?
Not being an intellectual, my view is simple:
The reason our caste-related or janjati-related
discussions (so important for our multiculturalism)
are so shallow and khattam in and out
of Nepal is that we are often quick, almost Pavlovian,
to claim a greater, putative Nepali brotherhood/sisterhood
(macro-level) over any janjati issue that we
usually fail to understand and appreciate the
micro-level uniqueness/strengths of Nepal's various
nations.
In the process, we end up offending/diminishing
importance of the sensibilities of the very
nations/groups we are trying to help. In Nepal's
hisory, especially after 1990, this sort of things
has happened too often, to everyone's detriment.
And, as a result, today, we have more groups
than ever before, justifiably saying that they have
been neglected by the dominant apparatus of the state.
We can let the things continue as they are,
or we can challenge the dominant framework
for thinking through a cultural issue. I
prefer to do the latter.
You say that Kumari is a NEPALI tradition because
th King of Nepal bows to her.
I say: Well, let's look at the evidence.
The tradition of Kumari, whether you like it or not,
holds absolutely NO relevance/meaning for a Dangaura
Tharu Nepali man, say, in Tulsipur, Dang. Or, for
that matter, to a Sherpa woman in Solu Khumbu. Or,
for that matter, to a Limbu child in Bhojpur. Or to
a Satar couple in Janak Pur.
So, my question is this: For a multicultural
country like Nepal, what exactly is "THE NEPALI"
tradition?
If you say that a Nepali tradition is a tradition
upheld by ALL Nepalis, then, Kumari -- going by our
evidence above -- is NOT a Nepali tradition.
If that's so, then, I would argue -- as I have done
earlier -- that the primary path for understanding
Kumari must start from understanding the very
community from which the tradition springs. Sure,
doing so may be boring and time-consuming. But only
after spending some time to understand why the
baadaas do what they do re: Kumari, will we be
in a stronger position to make macro-level
suggestions.
Else, we rush -- like in most of Nepal's development
ventures -- to prescribe true-sounding solutions that
emanate from out innate do-goodism, WITHOUT our ever
having the inkling re: what the community itself
wants for its tradition that we all respect.
Sure, a Tamang or a Tharu or a Sherpa can RESPECT
the tradition of Kumari, but that's ALL THEY
CAN and SHOULD DO. And ditto for Bahuns, and
Chettris and Thakuris and so on.
Telling the Shakyas (baadaas) how they should do this or that
for a Kumari WITHOUT first BOTHERING TO UNDERSTAND
AND APPRECIATE how the Shakyas themselves
are dealing with the changes is a little like
being ridiculously too sure (like a bikasay
consultant) about the merits and demerits
OTHER group's cultural practices.
Finally, I bring in personal examples for a simple
reason: The Nepal I have deliberately chosen to
live and work in does NOT exist in abstract
for me, as it apparently does for many bidwans
who seem forever busy PRESCRIBING solutions to
Nepal's problems from afar.
When people are busy talking about a Bandh, I feel
its effects in walking through soon.saan streets
and, at times, observing a rowdy julus. When there's
violence on the street, I see my friend's pasal ko
windows (Momo King on New Road) broken to shards. When there's indiscriminate firing by the Police and a 12-year-old girl gets
killed, I don't know what to say except to wonder
about Nepal's tort laws. When there's talk about
janjati issues, I immediately think of my
non-Bahun/Chettri friends who are NOT from
Kathmandu, and know that their experiences
with Kathmandu's formal sectors are different
on levels I can never imagine.
And so, I will bring in personal examples, when I
see their need to add substance to my arguments,
to point out that some of the issues we discuss,
do NOT exist in some conceptual la-la
land for me, but that they, at times, form the
very flesh and bones of my existence and experiences
in Nepal.
Please feel free to ignore such examples, or
feel free to interpret them in any way you
wish.
Finally, to Biswo: On another posting, Samrat
Upadhyay gave you an excellent, restrained, and
respectful response re: your, what I considered
to be, incendiary charges of plagiarism.
On this issue here, suffice to say that
I am inclined to be a lot less charitable
to you than Samrat was on that 'charge of
plagiarism' issue.
oohi
ashu
|
| rajendra |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 02:10 PM
Ashu, it's interesting to see that just a few days earlier you were calling me "master of copy and paste" and now suddenly you treat me like a renowned "intellectual" endowed the responsibility of keeping communal harmony in Nepal.
If you are NOW not pretending to be an intellecual (despite your trademark way of intellectualizing personal derision against fellow-discussants), you are behaving like a politician. And frankly, I've had enough of those politik-speak of pseudo-intellectuals and everyday politicians casting blame on other people for their own misgivings, name-calling opponents, changing positions more frequently than changing clothes and yes, speaking in lo-oong boring harangues.
Now if you can sense incense in my mood, I am sure you can just as well understand its origin. ;)
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 03:00 PM
>Ashu, it's interesting to see that just a
>few days earlier you were calling me "master
>of copy and paste"
Rajendra,
I can only look at the evidence: "[J]ust a few days
earlier" you WERE mostly doing cut and paste jobs
here, were you not? "Cut and paste" was how you
made your entrance to this site :-)
And that's the truth.
>and now suddenly you
>treat me like a renowned "intellectual"
You rush to take compliments a little
too prematurely. I used the word "bidwans" in
plural and in a GENERAL sense. Sorry, if I
gave the impression that by "bidwans", I
specifically meant you.
>endowed the responsibility of keeping
>communal harmony in Nepal.
No.
You objected to my using words like "Newars"
and "non-Newars". You specifically asked not
to bring in such "communal" stuff.
I, on the other hand, see NOTHING communal
and nothing wrong about using such phrases,
and I feel free use them to add depths and
specificities to these and other discussions,
even to the extent of bringing, as I wrote
earlier, personal examples.
>If you are NOW not pretending to be an
>intellecual (despite your trademark way of
>intellectualizing personal derision against
>fellow-discussants),
Since, for better or worse, your
target of attack on the above para
is now Ashutosh Tiwari, it is safe to
assume that you have nothing at the level
of ideas to add to the Kumari issue.
That's fine.
>you are behaving like a
>politician.
Since, again, for better or worse, your
target of attack in the above para
is now Ashutosh Tiwari, it is safe to
assume that you have nothing at the level
of ideas to add to the Kumari issue.
>And frankly, I've had enough of
>those politik-speak of pseudo-intellectuals
>and everyday politicians casting blame on
>other people for their own misgivings, name-
>calling opponents, changing positions more
>frequently than changing clothes and yes,
>speaking in lo-oong boring harangues.
Good.
This makes two of us who "have had enough" of such
stuff.
>Now if you can sense incense in my mood, I
>am sure you can just as well understand its
>origin. ;)
I am sorry.
I am neither a behavioural psychologist that you
obviously are nor a clairvoyant to "well understand"
whatever the "origin" of your "mood" is.
Thank you for reading my comments.
oohi
ashu
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 04:14 PM
>>Finally, to Biswo: On another posting, Samrat
Upadhyay gave you an excellent, restrained, and
respectful response re: your, what I considered
to be, incendiary charges of plagiarism.
Samrat's posting in no case relates to your outrageous postings.
Please, stick to the Kumari stuff.
You get too personal, and too assuming in writing, Ashu.I don't
expect very high from you, but I hope that you will try to
write something sensible and pertinent matters in your reply.Just
writing "I called Prem 'Dai' yesterday" ,and "I live near
Baadaa's house" doesn't bring any sense in writing.
>>On this issue here, suffice to say that
I am inclined to be a lot less charitable
to you than Samrat was on that 'charge of
plagiarism' issue.
The charge of similarity in plot was serious.Probably, your
acadamic understanding in such issues are insufficient.Again,
you have shown what difference is there between you and Samrat in
your own words, and I am glad to hear that.
It is very easy to run after established ideas/establishment/ friends like you did/do in a lot of issues(!).It is very easy to
preach others.It is very easy to brag 'I deliberately chose to
live in Nepal' in writing.This may constitute very high standard
for your writing.Kudos, for your incandescent self-aggrandizement!
As for Samrat's reply, he acknowledged the similarity in plot,
and his polite reply was something explanatory.What would you
reply to such charge? If somebody says "I can show you the book
published eight years ago with the somewhat similar plot as of
your story",what do you do?Fulminate with anger,like you suggest.
That ,by the way, only demonstrates the narrow mindedness and
callow understanding of the subject. If you have any expertise in
the field, why don't you write a reply yourself?
I have already written to you that may be your feigning of
knowledge impressed your friends in the past, those days are
over by now,my friend.We expect results from whatever you do.&
I surely can understand that merely talking and pretending have
made your life easier and funny in Nepal, because that is how
politicians survive out there!
Let's bring facts in every issue, even in Kumari.Let's not preach
others.Nobody listens to you here,my friend, unless you (or I)
present something substantial.Merely knowing somebody doesn't
qualify you on any subject.Please,try to be yourself.I am not
trying to put me as example, but like you, I have also several
acquaintee and friends who are as capable as the persons you
introduce as your friends here, I also grew up among political
who's who's sons/daughters, I was also ranked first nationally in several
occasions in acadamic field, but ,until now, I never dropped that
matter!Because that is not pertinent here.The only thing I said
was I was writer.Let me tell you something:when I used to go to
fetch my parishramik , cashiers there used to say I was the
youngest one to publish/get money.Go and ask your friends in Kantipur, I published stories and articles (very long and
significant as well)in spite of the fact that I didn't know anybody of those
editors, and I stopped sending articles after I realized I should
do something else.You say you 'are deliberately living in Nepal',
I gave up my job in Shanghai to live in Nepal before I came here.
But why? Why are you doing that? It is for your personal
satisfaction,haina? It doesn't matter to me and others what you
do,because whether you live in Nepal or USA doesn't matter to me
or whether I live in USA or Tanzania or Nepal doesn't matter to
Rajendraji.You once wrote me that "You should go to attend
English class", I again remembered this here, and let me tell you
my friend, my scores were always exceptional in standardized tests
of ETS, send me an envelope and stamp, and I may mail them to you.
I don't even ask your score, but I can say in no case, I might
have scored less than you.Of course, I don't want to write them
publicly here!
And I assume that everybody here has such connections, such
achievements because Nepal is so small, and there are so many
people you can name in this website.So many movie directors,
so many authors, beaurocrats, highly ranked students.. and yet
we all are alone, we all stand up in our own feet.Samrat's
achievement may please you, but ,afterall, Samrat is Samrat and
Ashu is Ashu.
I don't want to criticize you, and nor do I seek cheap publicity.
I understand that you think you are correct.That's why
I don't want you to think others as so stupid/silly/incorrect,
because a lot of other people are correct in themselves.Everybody
is born with his special faculty and nobody is inferior here.Raw
audacity is the most futile thing .
Good day,Ashu!
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 05:01 PM
Biswo,
I liked your stern yet polite (so well mixed with anger that it was like swadilo golveda ko halka piro achar)response to Ashu.
I am neither close to you nor to Ashu (personally). However, what I have observed by reading at GBNC site that Ashu probably does not want to agree with other's ideas. He goes like aru ko idea ta ramrai ho TARA ...(after TARA his so called "superior/better or may be the best" points run.
May be there is nothing wrong to appraise oneself to the limit but sometimes...Ke garnelai bhanda ke garne lai laj ..bhanya jasto.
sparsha
|
| rajendra |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 07:08 PM
>Rajendra,
>
>I can only look at the evidence: "[J]ust a
>few days
>earlier" you WERE mostly doing cut and paste
>jobs
>here, were you not? "Cut and paste" was how
>you
>made your entrance to this site :-)
>
>And that's the truth.
If you had read my first postings, you will see why I started pasting news items to this site: discussions on this site were not happening on current topics and were instead mostly pretentious and sometimes personal. You were the first one to welcome my news postings to the site. I suspected sarcasm in it, but nonetheless gave you the benefit of doubt then. While you rushed to judge me, I just remembered what Dagobert D. Runes quoted - rashness in judgment is the mark of a phoney thinker.
For the sake of discussion, what's wrong with copying and pasting relevant news items anyway?? This whole Kumari debate is a result of one of them.
>You objected to my using words like "Newars"
>and "non-Newars". You specifically asked not
>to bring in such "communal" stuff.
>I, on the other hand, see NOTHING communal
>and nothing wrong about using such phrases,
>and I feel free use them to add depths and
>specificities to these and other discussions,
>even to the extent of bringing, as I wrote
>earlier, personal examples.
I did not specifically object to your using the words "Newars" and "non-Newars". I objected to your disqualifying the arguments of Biswoji on the Kumari subject because he's a non-Newar. And I objected your qualifying your own arguments on the Kumari subject on the basis how your best friends are Newars and that you talked about Newar-Bahun-Chhetri relations in what, New Year's eve!!
>Since, for better or worse, your
>target of attack on the above para
>is now Ashutosh Tiwari, it is safe to
>assume that you have nothing at the level
>of ideas to add to the Kumari issue.
It is now even safer to assume that you have no ideas to contribute, yet want to assume superiority in the debate, by resorting to personal derision of fellow-posters and non-issues.
|
| new yorker in the know |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 07:47 PM
Some people *deliberately* choose to live in Nepal after...
1) failing to realize an investment banking job here in NYC that you constantly bragged about
2) having been fired from a job
3) having been thrown out of your apartment
4) taking a huge loan and fleeing so you won't have to pay back
5) all of the above
When you're in that boat, sure is a smart move for any dumbass, don't you think?
|
| new yorker in the know |
Posted
on 04-Jan-01 07:48 PM
Some people *deliberately* choose to live in Nepal after...
1) failing to realize an investment banking job here in NYC that you constantly bragged about
2) having been fired from a job
3) having been thrown out of your apartment
4) taking a huge loan and fleeing so you won't have to pay back
5) all of the above
When you're in that boat, sure is a smart move for any dumbass, don't you think?
|
| just an observer |
Posted
on 05-Jan-01 11:58 AM
After reading above postings I just have one comment: Wow, is it nasty or what!
I am bracing myself for the onsluaght of comments after my non-comment comment.
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