| Username |
Post |
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 04:37 AM
My guess on The Fifth Vote "Yes, table talk".
Just my Hahoo! guess:
"Yes, table talk" voters:
1. Gosaikunda
2. 13-thum
3.
4.
5. Nepe ( Nepe ji seems to be out of Sajha.com for some days,
as early as I saw his posting here in this forum, I found the
vote on "Yes, table talk". increased. It must be by Nep"t"e ji.
Hey, am I wrong? Am I not allowed to make Hahoo! Guess?
Sorry if you get disappointed by my guess.
Do you Hahoo!
Hahoo!Guru
|
| Nepe |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 02:22 PM
Thank you HahooGuruji for thinking about me. But I am sorry to tell you that that wasn't me. I hardly participate in the voting forum. Generally I find the options too limited for what I think my opinions are. For example, in the current list, I wish there was a fourth option. Don't ask me about it. Let it be a mystery.
Nepe
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 02:50 PM
Either second or third vote was mine.
I thought the options like 'wipe out' were too strong. There is always third option
of 'table talk'. 'Wipe out' all Maoists? I don't think it is possible. Assimilation to
mainstream politics etc. are more rational choice.Why should we promote the
extreme views only?
|
| Gosaikunda |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 05:45 PM
Hahoo Guru Jee,
Thanks for the guess.
I had not casted the vote.
BUt The final solution will be to form "Interim Cabinet". Sooner or later you will see it. Time will show you not this Gosaikunda.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 05:59 PM
Biswo ji,
If somone reads you posting before voting, who
might be thinking for 2nd option, might change
his mind. I am not sure whether the voters who
vote 2nd option, will have passions for reading the
discussions first and vote later.
Nepe ji,
I liked your posting too. My understanding on you based
on those early postings is changing, and I am becoming
your fan, I don't miss your writings. Honestly. But, ...ut..ut,
being fan of you does not mean . . . . . .. I forgot what
I wanted to write here (deliberately?).
---------------------
Far Away from this topic:
One more thing, I have found is that most of the former
(during student life/ now pros) and current leaders of
"Communist" Khema have enough power (or logics?) to wash
brain of common peoples, especially, who are weak in
emotionally. I am afraid, I am one of those common people
who are too emotional. A year back (?), I posted one posting
in some other forum where I claimed on top of posting that
I am Nepali Kangress Supporter, but, in later part of my
posting I went on blasting the corrupt NeKa leaders like
Girija to bottom for the corruptions . . . .. and what not
power hungry-ness. Then, when I met one (FRIEND?)
reader, who was Akhil leader in Ascol (he said he was never
on frontline, but, a great back-ground student leader),
and he said that "You can not be kangressi supporters,
he said that if you are kangressi "bhakta" than you should
be never criticising Kangressi leaders in public forum, rather
you should be justifying their deeds". He finally rejected me
being Kangressi supporter, and added " you are just a common
people who dislikes Communists and had no other option
than joining Kangressi Band Wagon to keep your interest in
Nepali Politics. Similarly, none of the real communists will
ever denounce or criticize their colleagues, but, will keep
on justifying whatever is their work. The capability to justify
it is the real karya-karta and leader's job ". He really brain
washed me, and now, I don't feel I belong to any political
khema .. . . . but, mere a frustrated common people, who
is looking for best political neta, it looks, Madan Krishna's
5lakh participant is right to say that "Nepal ma sachhikai ko
neta janmekai chhaina". But, I believe the communists
(former student leaders to current political) have good
skill in brainwashing common people, whether someone
likes or dislikes, its reality.
HG
|
| 13-thum |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 09:09 PM
Haho Ji,
I do not take part in any internet poll. They hardly mean anything as they can be easily manipulated. However, my choice of option is definitely the talk, as you have guessed. War can never be an alternative to dialogue. So i do not consider this wiping out as an option at all.
13-thum
|
| Gosaikunda |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 09:26 PM
Hahooguru is right.
Once in my village I have to speak st during inauguration of our Youth Club.
As an educated student , I say st that "We must do anythink by ourself."
Later it was diverted to "Afno gau afain Banu!" they guessed me whether Gosaikunda has ben changed to Akhil...?
Ideas of Akhil friends are good, they always support poors. But NEVisangh do not behave like that.
In ascol, I felt it always. That's why akhilka sathiharu nai jati...
jasto lagthyo.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 10:31 PM
Now, the poll result looks pretty suspicious. It surged suddenly in favor of table
talk!
--
Hahooguruji: I think Akhil ketas are very much intolerant and hypocrites. Most of
my friends were Nebi Sanghes. They took things easily. You know, we could talk
about anything , and freely. They didn't care if I criticized Girija(never really
liked him!). Akhils were little bigoted. They always talked those boring, heavy
stuffs like emancipation, this , that , naari bandhan, naulo Janabaad, I mean come
on, you have a life to live! Of course, some of Akhils were great. They just
simply worked hard. But majority didn't impress me. They are big time pretenders.
|
| Neutral |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 10:59 PM
Akhils:(lefties)
-have robust conceptual framework to define their politcal values
-lack access to adequate information or facts to refine their opnions
Bebisanghs (congressia)
-do not care to define any value
-have access to rich source of information but do not know how to process it
Result:
Akhils: Over-loaded with 19th centuries values
Nebisanghs: Happy with their own belief system developed based on others opinins or news reports.
Neutral
------------------------------------------
|
| 13-thum |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 11:05 PM
I found my Nebi friends more 'hi-fi' whears Akhil friends were Gaule Topi type. Nebi mostly talked about girls and related stuffs, typical of a college student, howerver this type of talks were sin to Akhil. They love those political words such as Janbad, Pragatisil, Shoshak, Shosit (as Biswo said).... pretty boring to be with.
However, the dedication of Akhil is unquestionable and Nebi were doing it more for a fun rather than for some political cause, atleast the majority of them.
13-thum
|
| 13-thum |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 11:37 PM
How about adding once more option in the poll.
Provide corruption free good governance.
This will definitely solve the Maoist problem as the popularity of government will rise and people will not be forced to abandon democracy and support maoist.
Let us not assume that maoist do not have public support and are just a bunch of terrorists without any sympathy from the general public. This will be a serious mistake.
13-thum
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 11:48 PM
>Let us not assume that maoist do not have public support and are just a bunch
>of terrorists without any sympathy from the general public. This will be a serious
>mistake.
They are terrorists, there is no doubt. But their origin is political. They don't have
sympathy from public, but their causes resonate with popular quest in
contemporary politics.They are not Virappan like sandalwood dealers, and that
is the unfortunate part of all problem because killing them won't ensure the
eradication of their so called demand. Their raising 'poor people's problem' is like
Al Qaida raising Palestine problem. Something they may not be interested in,
but (they think) provides justification for them to kill innocent civilians.Army needs
to go after them, kill them, whatever they can do to stop these fanatics from
waging this uncivil war should be done, but still table option should remain open.
|
| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 27-Feb-02 11:49 PM
Has the table turned. Were voters influenced by the discourse of this thread or its our usual Votes Rigging going on?
hoohii
hm....
hamrika
|
| neutral |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 01:13 AM
Biswo, are you sure killing innocent civilians is the stated (publicly or otherwise) policy of Maoist?
I do not think so.
I also do not think that there is much substance in the logic of drawing analogy between AlQueda and Maoist. For nepal army, the most difficult aspect of maoist problem is that it has a political origin and still runing as a political isurgency. Even army general has admitted that the TALK is the only way for final settlement. All RNA can do is press maoist to go for talk.
On the other hand, for general nepali (like me who is literally neutral in terms of political inclination and choice of political system), it is fortunate that the reaction to bad governnace and social injustice erupted in the form of political movement (though it is unfortunate that the government escalted it to full-fledged war). Other possible form could have been voilent struggle in ethinic line or for separatist cause.
Anyway, I am optimistic that we will have peaceful settlement with minimum bloodshed. The most worrying aspect is that government is using army without adequate hardware and intelligence infrastructure. Army is therefore simply reacting to the events rather than penetrating to the level maoist support structure. This kind of event-based reaction would simply help to build maoist military capacity (as in the case of police operation during 2052-2057).
Baring few isolated incidence, Maoist has not yet crossed the limit of peoples'-war. But if army could successfully cornor them and our politicians failed to devise a proper mechnism to bring them to the mainstream, then I see the real possibility of transformation of maoist to a terrerist group. Then destroying key infrastructure and targeting general civilians to create a terror might be their policy or they even may trigger ethinic conflicts (following a strategy of HUM TO DUBENGE SANAM, TUM KO BHI SATH LE KE DUBENGE!). So, under the business-as-usual scenario, it is not hard to see another Afganistan in making.....
So, TALK is still the best option available!
Neutral
------------------------------
|
| 13-thum |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 01:23 AM
>They are terrorists, there is no doubt. But their origin is political. They don't have
>sympathy from public, but their causes resonate with popular quest in
>contemporary politics.
Is it possible to have this type of impact in nation without having public sympathy? Is is possible to grow this big in short six years without having public sympathy? Is it possibleto control more than two thirds of Nepal without having public support? Is it possible to conquest police and give hard time to army without public support?
>They are not Virappan like sandalwood dealers, and that
>is the unfortunate part of all problem because killing them won't ensure the
>eradication of their so called demand.
>Army needs to go after them, kill them, whatever they can do to stop these fanatics from waging this uncivil war should be done
I could not agree more with you in the first point. It will not solve the problem by eradicating maoist today without eradicating the root cause for their growth. Tomorrow another type of problem will apprear, may be khambuwan, may janjati, maybe racial turmoil, may be separatist, ..
>Their raising 'poor people's problem' is like Al Qaida raising Palestine problem.
>Something they may not be interested in, but (they think) provides justification
>for them to kill innocent civilians. but still table option should remain open.
This might be true for the leaders but not for the majority for the fighters. They think that they are really fighting for their betterment.
I would like to reiterate my point that i am not a maoist supporter. I know they are not the solution but the problem. What i am trying to emphasize is we need to address the root cause of maoist problem together with maoist problem. Only then it will be a long term solution. We can not expect wipe out the problem by leaving a fertile ground for them.
13-thum
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 07:13 AM
I am very much disappointed that our fellow Sajha.com
Hahoo!ligans, though educated & live in developed world,
where you don't do bad things, not because there is POLICE
around, but, as a member of society, to make it live-able.
But, when we join the Nepali alone society or gathering like
Sajha.com, we again start "huuuiiiyaa", bana-ma syal karaye-jasto.
or 12 barsha kukkur ko puchhar dhungra ma hale pani bangai,
or koili ko bachha kaag le otharo thiyera hurkaye pani "KOho KOho "
bhani karauchha. And, when we were kid and hear "KO HO KO HO",
swor, we used to reply with loud sore "TERO BAU HO". Similarly,
I am disappointed to see these results, I mean it was just
5- 24 last night, and 9-25 this morning in Japan, and now in
its 31-28. I am not disappointed with result, but, surprised with the way
its ratio increased? its just upside down, since last night, 5-24
+ surcharged with (26 - 5 ) ? Do you really think its because of
our discussion? I suspect with the number it rocketed in short time.
The answer is only with San, who can check the IP addresses,
I am quite suspicious that someone who is in a big computer room
(in univ.) with several computers might have rigged the result.
If you have done this, you behavior will never change, you will
become corrupt officer in Nepal. I suggest you better become begger
in developed country, don't return to Nepal. We don't need such
educated person. If "you" have capacity, honestly tell that you
have made the Polling failed. Well, this is the worst part of democracy
and its the loophole where non-democrat peoples make hue and cry
that democarcy does not work in a country where peoples have
learned only reading, but, not really educated. I am so sad.
For you information, what is developed country and moral or
social manner, please, one you come to Japan. I will show you
road side shops, where Krishak around the road put things
in their no-man's shop, and they just keep open cash box
and ask visitors to put listed price and pick up their items.
If "YOU" (if "YOU" is applicable to anyone who really rigged the voting),
pass through the shop, I am sure the guy like you will pick up
the money, not only the vegetables and run away. Finally,
you will find others suffering because within a few weeks that
kind of shops will vanish, because of the peopels like "you". God
bless you don't come here in long term visa. Like a few gundas
can trap innocent peoples in a remote place where police are
very few in number to guard everywhere, and societies will
fail if such gundas teach other gundas that you can exploit the
unguarded society.
Hahoo!Guru
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 03:07 PM
>Biswo, are you sure killing innocent civilians is the stated (publicly or otherwise)
>policy of Maoist?
>I do not think so.
Neutralji:
That's where a lot of us were wrong. Our initial sympathy towards the Maoists
movement, because we thought it was just a resistance against oppressors (if you
look at my previous posting in gbnc.org, you will find it!) was wrong. Their
definition of oppressors includes TV owners in small villages, Sanskrit teachers,
elected officers, etc etc, and they have no hesitation in killing these people. I
think killing is their stated policy.
>Baring few isolated incidence, Maoist has not yet crossed the limit of peoples'-
>war.
I think otherwise. Baring a few incident, they have mostly proven that they are
a distorted form of what initially was a political movement. The killings are
indescriminate, reckless, unwarranted and apolitical in nature.
13-thumji:
>Is it possible to have this type of impact in nation without having public
>sympathy?
It is. Because they don't have public sympathy. Khmer Rouge had a lot of
insurgents, but they had no popular support(as the last election, which they
later repudiated, showed). The same thing is here. People didn't close the shops
in Nepal Bandh because they liked Maoists.
>I would like to reiterate my point that i am not a maoist supporter.
I never thought you were Maoist supporter. Please, feel free to voice your
opinion. Dissonance makes forums like this attractive.
|
| 13-thum |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 08:36 PM
Glad to know that some of us appreciate dissonance. If all of us agree on every issue then we do not need the discussion site like this. It would be pretty boring to be in a discussion group where everybody is saying the same thing in different ways.
Let us agree to disagree and respect different views even if we are totally against it. I am sure we can live without making derogatory and personal remarks. Let us NOT assume that the person who do not agree with us are social misfit, uncivilized, unethical, uneducated, and so on and take every chance to express this type of mentality. This type of mentality only exposes ourselves and shows what we truly are.
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