| Username |
Post |
| RaiderNation |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 10:06 PM
A total of 233 years have gone by since Prithivi Narayan Shah unified the nation in 1769. 233 years is a long time. Nepal is one of the poorest nations in the world with a per capita income of less than $200 a year. Human Resource development is the worst even among its South Asian neighbors. People in Kathmandu, Biratnagar, Birgung and a handful of other towns sustain whatever constitutes this $200. Have you for once thought how people in the deep treacherous pockets of Himalayas survive? Many of you have asked the version of the revolutionary’s development plans. May I ask the same? What are this government’s plans for development? Or for that matter, what developments have occurred in the previous administrations combined? Where is our society headed? After all the state apparatus isn’t in the Maoists hands, is it? For 233 years, common Nepali has been terrorized. Common Nepalis have put together 233 years of faith in the current political-economic rule. How was it returned? For years and years and years, we were threatened, cajoled, ignored and deprived. Now a segment of us revolt and its terrorism?
Democracy. Big word. Terrorists. Another big word.
Moabadis didn’t crop overnight; the state has to assume responsibility in its creation. Since 1769, we’ve had monarchy, heredity prime minister ships, absolute monarchy, constitutional monarchy: everything albeit democracy. 90% of our population is under the poverty line. Another 5% struggle to make ends meet. The rich and the mighty have everything, the middle class is busy worrying about what they’ll lose, and the poor have nothing to lose. So the rich and the mighty control the state apparatus, the middle class work in miserable conditions(supporting the ruling class) and the poor become Maobadis.
People don’t revolt in a balanced and reasonable state. When living conditions become intolerable, mutiny occurs and when farmers leave farming and join the insurrectionists then the general populace has to look into what made them go that distance. The irony of our country is that 23 million people have nothing to eat and a million want them to remain that way. Maobadi is not a political battle; it’s an economic struggle. Declaring them terrorist, who’s making fun of whom? Nango chati ra bhoko pet ma rastriyata jalkadaina.
What happens in Nepal is what we hear from the media. Who controls the media? The Maoists? If this government and the head of the state are equivocal in its cry for democracy, the Maoist is to take blame? Ban the pro-Maoist papers; take people into custody and (manpari ta aajai chaldai cha, hoina ra?) suspend fundamental rights, and do your dirty laundry at the expense of the Maoist. Most of us talk about democracy. A large section of us are horrified at the violence of the Maoist. The atrocities perpetuated by the Maoist, who reported that? Some unprejudiced news reporter? Or did an independent media get created in a jiffy? Am I wrong in assuming that the crown has used his leverage in getting the media rally behind him? And we talk about democracy! But when someone posts a pro- Maoist banner, you are intimidated. You should be secure in your principles. If your principles drive you, then you should have the ability to make those people see where they’re wrong. If you want to attack somebody, use words, not insults. Gali garera you’re insulting yourself. And how democratic is that? Or did all of you people decide that democracy is what you want it to be. In a democracy, people have the right to dissent, the right to engage in meaningful employment, the right to a decent life, the right to live and be secure that the state is concerned about its citizen. Having the right to vote is not democracy. Actions speak louder than words. Who among us can stand and say our country is democratic? Forget the poor villagers; let’s concentrate on our capital, Kathmandu. Why would anybody support any government that can’t provide the basic amenities of life? Drinking water is rare, and so is electricity. Stepping into the 21st century, our country is caught up a political and economic wrap of the 15th century. Nor are the roads up to the task and we can forget about our educational institutes. Nepal has no infrastructure aimed at tomorrow. Since 1950, we have been told the Rana regime collapsed and democracy came to the people. But did it really? The mighty ones are still they, the rich ones are still they, and the oppressed are still we. Every one took advantage of the naivete of the common people, now isn’t it time that we, uneducated and illiterate people, start questioning about us, about our future and about our land. Is that too much to ask from the country of our birth?
You and me, the middle classes revel in our education. But are you going to head back to Nepal when all’s said and done? Most of us won’t and that includes me. So why are we so against if a large section of our society demands a change? They live in the country and have the right to revolt if the doors of opportunity are closed for them. After all, the problems they face, didn’t crop suddenly, did they? Most people go to bed hungry. The ruling class doesn’t care. The middle class is spiritless. Being educated in the Western world should at least put in us some stimulation of common sense. Democracy is a nice word to use but it’s very hard to follow those words into our law. Can you claim we have been fair to the poor of Nepal? Are our laws being followed to the books? Does our judiciary condemn the guilty without the fear of repercussion? Or that the government has given equal opportunities to all sundry? A large section of our people are revolting. People often live life begrudgingly. They have a little to make life tolerable. Take that away and yes they will revolt. If people revolting are wrong, how are the people opposing the revolution right? Can anybody convince me, why I should not put my faith in the Maoist instead of the current establishment?
Maoist supporters are brain washed. A word I keep on hearing is illiterate , uneducated fools. A lot of us revel in our superiority of knowledge in comparison to the Maoist cadres. Yes, the war has a lot of following among the poor people. People, never given the right to education. People never given a chance to flourish. People who grew up believing the outlandish promises made to them, only to be disappointed again and again. Nepal’s literacy rate is officially pegged at 29%. Every year government hakims embark on tours to villages to encourage literacy. In Nepal, you’re a literate if you can sign your name and that’s how they go about doing their business. Is that literacy? Or did someone just kicked me in the gut and left me for dead? Garib ko ragat chuso ani baki bhayeko chala le jutta banayo? And you tell me those people are brain washed? These brain washed people have character. They are the ones who decided enough is enough and warranted a change. People choose what they think is the best option for them, for their future and for the future of their kith and kin. These people are the lifeblood of rural Nepal. People, bullied since time immortal. The poor of Nepal have spoken. We demand a change and god-willing we shall have it.
Maoism concentrated people who individually couldn’t force a change. The political change they want is flawed, but so is the one we have right now. A revolution is not always honky-dory. A lot of compromises have to be made. Some good, some bad. I do not claim that Maoism is what the country needs. Nor do I like the fact that its leaders choose Maoism instead of some democratic movement. But the fact remains they were the first people to challenge the might of Kathmandu and I respect them for that. And surely if they did the hard work in bringing about the change, I have no hesitation in letting them rule me. At the worst we will have crooks ruling us. We have crooks ruling us now. I revel in the fact that I’ll possibly be better off but not worse-off. This revolution will go on, for Maoism might die, the cry for revolution will not. Unless a common man is heard, destiny has Nepal in for a long time of guerrilla struggle.
Another question is the question of talks. Last year, there were some talks between the current government and the Maoists. The government came to the table to talk saying that monarchy, changes in the present constitution and constituent assembly was nonnegotiable. So what talk did the government want to talk? Weather and sports? Come to the main stream and help us loot the people further? How can Nepal’s intellectuals say that the Maoists were given a fair chance? The government rejected all of Maoist demands before the talks, so wasn’t the talks a sham? As far as I remember, the Maoist dropped the monarchy demand the third week of November and yet on the fourth week of November, they launched an offensive attack against the Royal Nepalese Army. What transpired in between? Don’t people have the right to know how and what was tabled at the talks? Or is the government nervous that its tactics of bullying didn’t work?
Why isn’t our country secular? The world’s only Hindu country, big deal. A progressive country needs to be secular in being, in character, in morals and in principles. Nepal isn’t anywhere close to a democracy. Stop kidding us or at least stop kidding yourself. What democracy are we looking at? “Man is born free but everywhere else he is in chains,” Rousseau said once. How very true. I’m tired of being chained into inane customs and traditions, tired of lying to myself that things will take a turn for the better, tired of the lies, the promises, and tires of being a victim. I’m tired of being taken for granted. These fetters are heavy and I’m weary.
The decision for monarchy is only of academic proportions. Who cares whether monarchy withers or not but if monarchy wants to stay then it must acknowledge its shortcomings and make amends. Expensive jaunts have to be done away with. Nepal cannot sustain the frolics of the royal family. Vishnu avtaar ka din haru aba gaye. The king takes a little over $60,000 a year in income, the queen takes half of that, the crown price, crown princess, princes etc all have their share in the loot. Add to the fact that they pay no taxes, and the common man provides for everything else. This much from a country with $200 per capita income? A poor country like Nepal cannot afford such an expensive establishment. Business pani timro, industries pani timro, tax chai hamro? Being a king in this modern contemporary era is not about controlling and ignoring. There’s responsibility attached to it. Monarchy in this era is about representation. A king, should there be one, should be able to rally his people behind him. Internationally, he should be an ambassador. Someone to represent the country and its problems. King, Supreme Being, deity; my ancestors put their faith in you and look at the pay off. History will forgive Baburam and Prachanda for the revolution, but history will not forgive you and me, who supported the very despotic and repressive organization we claim to disdain, the situation in Nepal since 1769.
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| Gariv_nepali |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 11:01 PM
You got the point rider nation. I support you. We should kick our monarchy out from power and choose alternative system not necessarily ultra communisium though. Just imagine what will happen to Nepal when killer Paras will be King tomorrow. Indeed Maobadi problem is not absolute political problem. It is associated with economical problem. This war will continue forever unless some significant changes will be occured.
Gariv Nepali ko awwaz
Gariv_nepali
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 11:21 PM
Just imagine what will happen to Nepal when killer P?? will be King tomorrow.
;
sl
k
l
History will NEVER forgive Baburam and Prachanda for all those killing spree.
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| dude |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 11:25 PM
If you are a Maoist, why don't you go to Rukum/Rolpa and fight with your
comrades?
I guess you are probably a Govinda Raj Joshi or Khum Bahadur Khadka of Maoist
party. Take the money, ask rank and file to fight for you and do 'moj' in USA.
For your info, people don't give a damn if Paras becomes king. He is the last
of the headache of Nepal. He seems ,btw, somewhat sorry for his deed. He is
not killing people anymore. But your people are killing more, probably killing some
gaauko kisaan rightnow as we are writing and reading these words!
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| Gariv_nepali |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 11:29 PM
HahooGuru,
Are you scared to write down full name of Killer Paras. Just P.....come on man...don't get scared... you are in Japan right. No one will come over there and nail you down.
About prachanda and Baburam they are fighting for their belief. Thier belief could be wrong. You can not compare with Paras with Baburam or Prachanda.
Gariv Nepali ko awaz
Gariv_Nepal
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 11:35 PM
I recently heard that Radio Nepal reported that Maoists
killed some peoples in western Nepal. Its not confirmed whether
the kiilled were normal citizen or police /army personnels.
Royal P(aras) killed two, of course, one of them is very well known singer,
and Paras is now mentall suffering from his deeds and must be personally
regretting. While Maoist P? is enjoying killing peoples to get
power. To justify his demand, he kills third person. Paras can be
better than Maoist P? as time comes, and I comparing two, if we
are given only two choices, I will select first P, i.e. Royal P.
IF I have a third choice, I will opt for third one, but, the third one should
not be from the current Maoist party.
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| ? |
Posted
on 28-Feb-02 11:46 PM
raider nation, garib nepali et al
no matter how wondeful and charismatic belief your gurus( Baburam and prachanda) carry, there can not be any excuse to kill those people who refuse to revere their aura.
i just have only one question to those of you who barp on
cdonalds and think nepali economy and politics will be stabalized once maoist come in the government.
Maobadi always claim that their mahan jana badi yudhha is supported by most of the nepali population and they, only they have that magical stick that will bring about radical changes in Nepal.
Then why dont u dare join an interim government, bring absolute majority, change the constitution and rule the country? Then tell people how parliament has become an obstacle to reach to their ultimate goal. call for a referendum, throw out whatever u want to.
NEPAL AAMA LE KAHILE MMAF GARNE CHHAINA KAPOOT HO
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| 13-thum |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 01:07 AM
RaiderNation has put his points with so much substance. If you want to disagree with him, then answer him with some substance as well. Just saying this is not so and this is so is not enough.
In fact the point he raised about media is worht a thought. Whatever we are hearing so far is the government version of fact. All the newspapers has become Gorkhapatra, reporting the diffence ministry report. Can we make the decision on the basis of listening to one party as well.
I am impressed with the RaiderNation's ability to express.
Somehow i got the feeling that almost all of us fall under top 5% of the population and do not exactly feel the pain of rest of the 95%.
13-thum
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| tika |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 01:17 AM
To all Maobais,
It is easy to live in a fantasy world, where every thing is provided to you.
There may be reasons for you to be a Maobadi but you do not have a right to kill or torment anyone. If you really believe in what you preach there are other ways you could bring change in the country. Socio-economic change is a long-term commitment. The change can only happen after people get educated and join the rest of the world in global trade. This is not going to happen until there are people like you who believe that you can change the world by looting and killing.
We all know that Nepal is poor. How can we bring the country to success? This should be what you should be thinking in "Global Perspective". Nowadays the whole world is connected by information. You should know that your ideology would not be successful because communism is a failed ideology.
Instead of targeting the monarchy to gain local support, you should support monarchy and gain local support. You should think hard what are the benefits of having monarchy. Without monarchy Nepal will not survive as a nation. There will be little armed gangs like your self who will claim power in different parts of the country. Will the history of Somalia or Afghanistan be repeated in Nepal? I am not sure you want that either.
There are socio-economic developments needed in Nepal. This can be achieved when everyone puts the interest of the country first, not their own. During Rana regime, Rana interest was important. During Panchyat regime, Panchyat interest was important. Now, your ideology is important to you than the interest of the country. You are pushing the country backwards and you believe that you are going forward. Your interest is not the interest of the country.
You have a gun in your hand; I have (pen) words. You have hate in your heart; I have love. You hate your own Nepali that does not believe in your ideology but I love my country. Even though we have differences in the grounds we stand I really hope that I can get through at least one of you and make you understand my point of view.
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| Neutral |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 01:47 AM
I particularly appreciated following lines of RiderNation.
"..............A revolution is not always honky-dory. A lot of compromises have to be made. Some good, some bad. I do not claim that Maoism is what the country needs. Nor do I like the fact that its leaders choose Maoism instead of some democratic movement. But the fact remains they were the first people to challenge the might of Kathmandu and I respect them for that............."
Besides, he has also raised a valid issue of the Talk. I am not yet sure who are to blame for the failure of talk. It appeared that "TALK" was used (rater abused) just for political manupulation in ruling camp. First, the view of establishment was that talk was not possible with maoist because they are demanding republican system. But when Maoist made compromises (and that is exactly what the table talk is for), government side had nothing new to offer, except the silly logic asking maoists to join mainstream and fight election (maoist had this priviledge already in 2052!). I think the event of Sept 11, and the negative publicity of maoist (due to chanda and CHIURA collection for so called mass meeting in Kathmandu) have a lot to do to change government people's mind expecting quick downfall of maoist. Otherwise, the demand for constituional assembly is not at all unjustifiable (given the possible outcomes of on-going cycles of voilence!)
Neutral
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| Santosh Neupane |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 09:09 AM
RaiderNation, I agree with you 94%. As far as the goverment is concerned, there is nothing to say. we all know that they are fighting the maoist more to secure their own position than for the security of the people and they are of course using police and Army for it. I agree that whe people are left with no choice, they revolt. that's natural and i also agree that there has not been "democracy" in nepal. The current monarchy is going to end soon(i believe) by itself because something gained from blood from own family is not going to last long and they will end the same way.
But, i do not agree that baburam or prachanda are doing thr right thing. As a matter of fact, i don't think they have control over the current situation anyway, but still they are responsible for what they started. They are responsible for the killings of innocent peoples too. Just because of them saying that they are fighting for the people does not make them innocent of killing of these peoples.
Yet, i am ready to be ruled under anyone who thinks they can do better job.
At least it's worth a shot when you are completely out of choice. There is nothing to lose.
Confused..............
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| alnepali |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 10:44 AM
I would be dishonest if I disagreed with most of what RaiderNation expressed. And also be mislead to think that Communisim fits our government right. However, I am not sure how this palace would lead either. My simple analogy: If a person does not fullfil his duties to a job, would you still keep him in payroll?
It was imminent that someday a revolution would root with some face. Regardless, what I would like to witness is that someday:
Every citizen be given the equal opportunity to advance,
& the judicial system to be fair and effective.
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| jira |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 12:18 PM
Raider nation!
I am with you eventhough not 100%. When we talk about democracy, we seldom forget about poor people and this is the sole cause of the birth of mawobaad. I am not in favor of monarch system as leaded nor am with corrupted minds of our so called leaders. I feel shame to name Khume, govindey, Girijey, Jhuley the leaders. It is so easy to invoke illeterate people and you do not have to be educated to take them under control. That is how they have been surviving. And ..Yes, this is another reason of growing Mawobaad. But they themselves are not too far from malpractising the freedom. I have not read any article of so called mawobadee which influence me a bit. Terrorism is the growing tendency to expreee your disgruntle over the dictators but how long will it drag you under the blood of innocent civilians?
Yes Raider, whatever you said is almost right but I can not support the mawobadee trends. Shall not we be thoughtful of any brilliant idea to deal with this? But at the same time, the reasons behind the birth of mawobaad in Nepal is absolutely fact leading.
And Hahooguru!! I was eager to read the long comments like you always like to throw. Where are your ideas? . It seems like you do enjoy throwing negative comments with your phrasy words but sometimes you gotta be supportive too. Suportive for the fact that we all know, supportive for the fact that what is right or wrong.............................
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 12:37 PM
Raidernation, ideas expressed flawlessly.
One thing you said comes to my mind: bhoko pet ra nango chaati.
My personal experience regarding revolutions of all types and maybe you can draw your own conclusions from this.
My family was a staunch supporter of the Gorkhaland movement so much so that our house had become a little nest for meetings among family members. My mother could sit anybody down and convince you why the movement had to happen and what good it would bring. Many people commented on her ability to grasp the situation.
As you might know, Darjeeling is in West Bengal and WB has been a communist state for almost as long as India has become independent. When it was time to vote, I overheard my mother telling her sisters that she voted for the Communists and I was FURIOUS. When I charged her with this, her reply to me was - "well who do you think gave me that raise a short while ago??Why do you think so many Nepalese people support the communist government?" This from an educated, bright woman.
Idealistically not something I COULD/WOULD support but the irony of it is - bring it down to bare bones and what do we have???? BHOKO PET and NANGO CHAATI
and that my dears is the biggest weapon of the maoists.
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| NK |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 01:01 PM
Raider Nation,
I am trying to be very calm while I am answering some of your mis-lead beliefs and your willingness to surrender your being to the hands of Maoist.
Let’s examine how much Mao, apparently your leader, you shining star, whose name you proudly attach to yourself, killed in his ‘Great Leap Forward?’ As high as 30 Million. How many people got killed in his ‘Cultureal Revolution that lasted from 1966-1976. In whole total 10 years 1 million, and that is a very very conservative estimation. In 6 years of your Maoist revolution 3 thousand people in Nepal. Go ahead comrade you are not very far from your goal if you keep at it. You will surpass your great leader Mao Zedung in terms of killing inncocent people. The innocent people you say you are fighting for. The oppressed class you say you are fighting for. In the ‘Great Leap Forward’ the people who died were mostly those “oppressed class.”
You declare grandly, “it is not a political battle ; it’s an economic struggle.” You invoke Marx’s class warfare bringing up the issue of 5% being rich and rest 95%being the have-nots. The means of production. And your solution? Make them soldier, give them guns and grenades or just khukuri and your ideal state –the Great Class Less Society will emerge. Everybody is running in the field singing songs in sun set. Where are you? In some sort of marijuana-induced hazyland? I don’t have to go too far to give you the reality check.
Soviet State? The first years of the Communist regime in the Soviet Union, they established forced labor camps. These labor camps became the most important part of the Soviet penal and repressive system. Have you wondered why all the communists states have been so repressive? No make that a capital REPRESSIVE. You talk about oppressive state, my friend. You should have lived in Stalinist Soviet Union, or Stassi’s regime in East Germany. They had more infromants than law and law and order overseer. A state where you cannot trust your own daughter. The communists made a big mistake, in that respect even Marx. They totally neglect the inert guiding principle of humans, is to better themselves. And how do you achieve that? Obviously not by giving up all your rights to the State.
China. Does it ring a bell? If Mao’s communism was so successful then the farmers would not be starving in millions as I speak. The new born girls wouldn’t have been abandoned, village after village wouldn’t be abandoned for the search of b etter living. East Germany would not be a history. Here, let me give you some records Communism, that you support full-throttle, has left the world to savor:
Death Toll in
USSR 20 Million
China 65 Million
Vietnam 1 million
North Korea 2 Million
Cambodia 2
Easter Europe 1 milliion
Latin America 1.5 million
Africa 1.7 million
Afghtanistan1 1.5 million
Communism compiled a lengthy enemies list, which included political parties, clergy, intellectuals, shopkeepers, many ethnic groups, and other “socially dangerous elements.” This socially dangerous element syndrome is deep in your blood, the communists. And another catch word is informants. Come again how many informants have you killed in Nepal?
The idea of utopia is alluring. It is beautiful. I want to live there. But first tell me have many of your predecessors found one? Communism once stood on four continents, ruling one third of humanity. So? Should I believe you? Interestingly enough you grudgingly admit there might not be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow i.e. a good state, even after Mao’s “victory.” So, why are you fighting? Why are you shedding blood. Oh! I remember your bir neta says you do that and you and your kind do it. That is one thing stands out in my opinion about communists. A here like mentality. An oppressive, repressive, brutal herd like mentality.
Really I can go on and on but I will stop here right now. You know some of us have to make a living. I cannot go and kill my landlord to steal food from him. I would like hear more from you, my beloved comrade. Then I will write more.
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| another view |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 01:27 PM
Raidernation,
I must say you have expressed yourself well. I too think along the same line as you. I am a part of the middle class in Nepal, and I have been here in the US for a while now, with little or no intention of returning to Nepal fulltime. I grew up in a village where Maoists now roam, and it pains me that every time I go to Nepal, I cannot go to my birthplace (village) out of fear for my own safety. Also, because of the war that is going on, my parents business, which is very tourist dependent, has been seriously affected. To the point that my dad is thinking of shutting it down completely. But, my discomfort and my parents financial owes are nothing compared to what most of the people have had to endure for far too long.
People talk of ethnic harmony in Nepal. What harmony? It is a suppression not a harmony. When one group suppresses the other to the point the other cannot fight back, you cannot call that harmony.
Political systems have changed in Nepal, but the people in power have not. It is still the same minority ruling the majority. And like u said, it is the minority that has the voice, the education and whether knowingly or unknowingly tries to maintain the status quo. Even this web-site, we have to realize that most of the people who frequent this site probably come from either a middle class or a well to do family. So, the views expressed here are bound to be biased.
I don’t know if things are going to be better under a Maoist rule, but I am not going to classify them as villains right away. At least, the way I see it, they are the first group of people in Nepal who are fighting till death for what they believe in. Can any of the current leadership honestly claim that? Have the Maoists made mistakes along the way? Sure, they have. Let’s be practical. In reality, everyone makes mistakes. You have to. Hopefully, the Maoists have learnt from their mistakes too.
Also, one can always debate about can an end justify the means? I don’t know the answer, but one thing I do know is that it is a debatable point. So, whatever ills the Maoists have had to commit and committed maybe the price Nepal has to pay for a brighter future. It is a war after all, and these are not normal times.
I think it is true that most people in villages are afraid of the Maoists more than in support of. But don’t forget the origin of the so-called “democracy”? I remember in the late 80s and in 1990, when the “revolution” took place, it was mostly the “gundas” that took to the streets of Kathmandu. I am not saying all of them were hooligans, but most were. Ordinary people were just as scared back then, locking themselves in their houses waiting to see what would happen.
I am not supporting the Maoists here. Don’t get me wrong. I am just saying, let’s be open about this and ask ourselves why we blindly support the so-called democracy. Maybe it has something to do with our own conveniences.
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| TenPercent |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 01:57 PM
90% of what RiderNation noted down is undoubtfully FACTUAL as an accurate account of Nepal. Why 90%?? since I am a part of 10%- from economically strength family, educated in a well institute, and having income above average.
To uplift those 90% Nepalese who have deprived of BASIC needs for hundred of years, the PRESENT system must be eradicated and replaced with one who represents 90%- it does not matter what name it comes with.
There is no doubt that Democracy is best system as I am a part of it in Western Country and so on. The SAME Democracy is worst system as I have been seeing it in my country. In last 12 years, what was goal of my democratic country??? How much of that goal was achieved??? How is life of 90% people after re-establishment of Democratic Government in 1990???
I personally don't see any problem to sacrifice my ADAVANTAGE (from being 10%), if 90% will be benefited- that is the true sense of Democracy. Advocating Democracy is nice if and only if 90% can participate on it.
It is certainly bad to see killing people, but it happens when attempting REVOLUTION, and REVOLUTION is always indispensable for betterment of 90%.
For any Revolution, NOT revolunist but existing/past system is responsible.
Are we feeling responsible for what we have been doing?????????????
Why are we advocating for the system that even could not give a very BASIC expection of people ????
How many more years WE can wait and WASTE??????? Was not 12 years sufficient enough????
Are we JUST brainwashed for big WORDS?????
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| Che |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 04:27 PM
Isn't there a thing called ballot where, over an interval of time, people go to a booth and cast a vote and choose leaders they think is the right person? If Maos are truly an innate desire of majority of Nepalis, why not carry out a referendum with international observers monitoring the ballots? I am willing to accept the result. And, may I ask Raider Nation," Will you?"
Majority of people are like you and me who just want to do a good day's work, raise a family, live and let others live their lives. It is only those few, in the name of better good but for their own personal gains, use and abuse the system and the innocents. I don't care who the prime minister or which party he comes from but what I do care is I don't want anyone telling me how much I can earn, what I can possess, where I can go, or what I can wear.
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| 13-thum |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 04:49 PM
Exactly, Precisely, ballot is what maoists are asking for. Don't you know that their main demand is the election of constitution assembly and current sytem said that they can not accept it. In this way maoist are more democratic than the current system. If the current system thinks that they have the public support then what is the problme with the election of the constituiton assembly. Denial of the election of constitution assembly show that the current system is not democratic. Even the king has confidence in the public and is ready for the election of constitution assembly.
I would have whoeheartedly supported maoist if they were not communist. The only problem is this. Otherwise what they are asking for is perfectly valid.
13-thum
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 10:02 PM
13-thumji:
I will support plebiscite on constitutional assembly if Maoists give up their arm.
Because I am pretty sure that they won't give up their arm if they lose. They
will start fighting again. How can government fulfill the demand of some extremists
just because they killed and terrorised people? How many indulgences of these
groups need to be fulfilled?
----
I am so scared of liars. Fidel lied in the past. When mounting a rebellion in Cuba,
he promised there will be general election in 2 years. It is 42 years already. His
command (from a city Santos?) resigned as his protest because Fidel was not
committal to any general election, and he was put to jail for 17 years.
What scares me is, even if Maoists win, they won't let nation be in peace.
After Mao's victory, China was choatic, turbulent until 1976, just to remind you.
After finishing off non-communists, they start finishing off the communists who
are deemed to be sympathetic to those noncommunists. In their quest to create
a cream of pure communists, they will make the nation hell. It happened in China,
and his folowers are hell bent on repeating that in Nepal too.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 01-Mar-02 10:23 PM
Biswo ji,
Thanks for your in-sight experience. FYI, I met your
friend in Japan. I surely told him that I met you here
in Sajha.com .Sajha.com pays back.
------------
Recent report:
Now, Maoists have started to sort out Govt. employees
travelling in night, and very soon it will be on day time
too. Just two days back, some one I know came in
night bus, his bus was emptied by Maoists. The group
left the scene. Then one of the passenger got in to a
truck, then, a few kilometer far new group of maoist
arrived to stop the truck, they get into the truck
and asked the Driver and khalasi whether the truck
passengers are govt. employee, and the truck
driver saved a few peoples hiding on the back under the
jute bag. . . . . . . Lamo swaaaas ferdai ktm utre re uni
(ek sarkari karma chari).
-----------
The same person said, the Maoists also have helicopters
that roams the western villages ... and he raised his
both hand (HANDs UP) when the helicopter was searching
some of their enemies "govt. employees", earlier feudal
, then, Nepali Kangress Cadres, now, govt. employees ...
and the helicopter was very close to ground (in sorting
out BATUWAs in remote districts). He was thinking that
its time to die, and when the same person met another
Maoists in Bus-then-in truck, he thought he is about
to end. He finally, came to KTM, but, don't know how can
he return to his office in remote district . . . . .. .. If you
have relatives working in govt. office or schools, it seems
either they don't move, or get ready for ..............????
Its not the fiction story, but, its real story. As Biswo ji
said, once (katham kada chit Maoist ayema) they come
to power, they will start killing each other, as we already
know Maoists have several branches inside it. Maoist
are dictators, so who can be top level leader will be the pt.
of competition and in this competition, they will finally,
kill each other like in China, Cambodia, in Afganistan.
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 02-Mar-02 01:32 AM
Dear all,
I read what you all had to say regarding the whole thing that's going on in nepal. I just have a question, how many of you are right now in Nepal?
Raidernow, I have no problems with you becoming a maoist. I think the maoist party needs "intellegent" and "articulate" people like you. You were very articulate, and put forth your views "flawlessly". But, you skipped a very important point. How can the Maoist government (if it forms a govt) guarentee peace, stability and economic development to the people?
What will be the Maoist foriegn policy be like? Will nepal resort back to being an isolated country?
Which governmnet (except for that of North Korea) you think will support the Maoist regime in Nepal?
Now, seriously consider the worst case scenario: The maoist win the war, and form their governmnet and cut off Nepal from the rest of the world? How do you think we will survive?
Mao always believed in giving continuity to revolution. Let me quote him here "ge ming bu shi qing ke chi fan, ye bu shi zuo wen zhang" [ Revolution is not a dinner party, nor writing a college essay], so to you Mr Nation, its very easy to post mesasge in this board and talk aboput lofty ideas, but imagine how people are surviving in Rolpa, Rukum, Salyan, Acham etc. So, if you are a maoist, which you claim to be, then come back to nepal, fight along with your tong zhi men (comrades) than just sit in your school's library and spend time posting messages.
Dear Raidernation, the other thing which I don't undrstand is, what is Maoism? Did mao come up with any original revolutionary idea? All I know from my history classes is that he believed in giving continuity to revolutio which terribely afftected the lives of millions of chinese civilians. Will we see/experience all those revolutions (100 flowers campaign, The Great leap forward, Cultural revolution, anti-Capitalist movement, kill sparrow campaign, anti-confusious/lin biao campaign, anti rightist campaign, anti-this/that campaign) in Nepal?
Again, just curious. What do you think Maoism is? I studied mao for 2 years, and I still don't know whether there's something like Maoism really exists.. does it? If yes, then what's the basic/underlying message of Maoism? Where can I get a book on Maoism? Are you a maoist because you understand Mao(ism??) or you are just getting too emotional/depressed by what you have been reading on the news?
My ek dollar (that's 76 rupiya nepali)
|
| RaiderNation |
Posted
on 02-Mar-02 02:03 AM
NK,
Thank you for your gracious comments. Your angry tirade against communism is comprehensible. After all, where does communism fit into today’s world? But NK, I’d like you to read my article yet again, probably you missed the points I raised in it. You’ll find a paragraph where I’ve said, “Maoism concentrated people who individually couldn’t force a change. The political change they want is flawed, but so is the one we have right now. A revolution is not always honky-dory. A lot of compromises have to be made. Some good, some bad. I do not claim that Maoism is what the country needs. Nor do I like the fact that its leaders choose Maoism instead of some democratic movement.” The whole point in raising the title, “Why I am a Maoist” was, in my attempt, a reflective look into our country’s economic, social and political distribution of wealth and misuse of public trust. The very system that gave credence to the rise of revolutionists. Why were the Maoists declared terrorists when terrorism is ruling the country? Another interesting conclusion Maoist bashers often use is that one of not being able to rule. Who put forward this conclusion? Has any governments, past or present, ruled us reasonably? His Majesty’s government has never exercised anything aimed for the good of the common people. What part in our history can you invoke to put us to rest that we, the people, were given a fair deal by any administration from Prithivi Narayan Shah to Gyanendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev? The only change I see from the founder king to the present king is that somewhere, the ruling class decided they were valiant, enigmatic and divinity, hence adding Bir Bikram and Dev into their name. Too much of opulence, no substance. Didn’t they have anything better to do?
My article attempted to raise questions as to why should I believe in the system we have right now. Why not demand a change? Like I said this revolution is about social development and economics, not political beliefs. People in villages sell their daughters to brothels in India. This is the endowment governments have given us over the years. Can you envision how malicious poverty is? How hunger pang reasons with wickedness? You talk about utopia. You promised us utopia. We were merely spectators in digging our graves.
I also asked anybody to try demonstrate to me why I should put my lot with the current establishment. I’m willing to listen to you but you’ll have to present me with sound, reasonable and valid point of views. A lot of you replied back with clichés regarding Maoists of Nepal. None of you disputed my sayings about the role of the media, the misuse of public funds, the stagnation of economy mired in medieval times, the causes of revolution, its impact on rural Nepal and the years of neglect and humiliation we were put through. None of you can tell me with a straight face, monarchy is the saving grace for the nation. So what are you sustaining? I don’t want to hear about what Marx, Lenin or Mao did. I know that. Lets focus in Nepal. What has Nepal done in 233 years? What will Nepal do in years to come? Why are we among the poorest nations in the world? If you want a continuation of the present system, how do you propose to assimilate the poor, providing us with equal opportunity in education and social development? How do you propose to make amends? What type of government will this system be able to produce? How do you intend to make Nepal secular? Do you consider the former communist countries are in any way shoddier than Nepal? If not, then why are we shortchanged?
|
| Another RaiderNation |
Posted
on 02-Mar-02 02:19 PM
Hi,
I agree with RaiderNation and his/her arguements. It is basically a needed war for the destitute people of Nepal and it is legitimate itself.
We all know that every war establishes a new outcome and its importance. Maoists war for establishing a new responsible government in Nepal is a persuasive pace in politics.
|
| Another RaiderNation |
Posted
on 02-Mar-02 02:20 PM
Hi,
I agree with RaiderNation and his/her arguements. It is basically a needed war for the destitute people of Nepal and it is legitimate itself.
We all know that every war establishes a new outcome and its importance. Maoists war for establishing a new responsible government in Nepal is a persuasive pace in politics.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 03-Mar-02 04:43 AM
Everthing has + and - sides. If you accumulate only + sides
without having total effect, you can always justify every action
has +ve effect. Like you kill your son just after birth, and you
can tell the presiding judge that you killed him because the world
is cruel, and he will have to suffer a lot if he is alive, and ....
and therefore, you killed him. Does it justify? in overall sense?
Similarly, Maoist war does not justify in overall terms, and its total
effect is -ve and therefore, its not justified. You are are brainwashed
thats why see only +ve side forgetting the -ve side effect.
Maoist war has taught how to create CHAOs and how to become
anarchist. Now, country is passing through anarchism. Anyone who
posses something, either has to leave his village or die.
Read todays, The Kathmandu Post @ Nepal news. com. 300 Maoists
looted local shopkeepers. Its now daily news, and if something is
daily, I don't think its a news, but, a routine work. When your house
will be looted (provided you are not bank-rupted) by another group
of Maoists as time comes, you will get paid for your propaganda in
favor of Maoists.
|
| Another RaiderNation |
Posted
on 03-Mar-02 10:43 AM
Hi HahooGuru,
Maoists have already chosen their path to kill the people, you do not know whom they kill for what reason. They just kill to the people and want to move forward on their path.
You have quoted that Maoists have looted the local shopkeepers, there is a question that how far is it trustworthy? Is the government media trustworthy? Do you remember at the time of Panchayet regim that how the Radio Nepal and Gorkhapatra had been used.
I want you to look at the income distribution in Nepal and how far does it have disparity? The range of income now Nepal has Rs. 100 per month to Rs. 50,000 per month. It shows that the huge income disparity in a small scale economy. It has five hundred times difference between these two income range. Is it justifiable for you? You can hardly see this type of difference in developed countries.
I want you to know that how US economy works in terms of income distribution. Fed has declared the minimum wage rate and you can earn more that $ 20,000 in a year as being a full time worker(unskilled). The top pay is mostly $ 140,000 in the US. Now, you just try to compare the difference between these two economy. Why do we need just?
|
| Mukha_adhis |
Posted
on 03-Mar-02 11:34 AM
Please do understand while you guys engage in this debate that condemnation of Moists activities cannot/should not be construed as a validation of present government's performance or vice versa. Raider Nation's point of view that people have no choice but to go or become Moist is very very very true. But I don't condone Moists banking on this and using them to promote their vested interests. BTW, RaiderNation, or Moist Supporter et all, you folks think Moist problem will only confined to remote villages? If you keep lending your support,however tacit it may be, despite their buchery, murder and rape to innocent people of Nepal, that day will come when one of your family members or relative will succumb to their carnage and what do you do? Bottom line, Moists have no moral rights to kill innocents low ranking people for the failure of government(s). Why punish twice the same poor Nepali?? BTW, I haven't found/ heard Moist killing corrupt politicians yet? How come? Do you know why? Because at the end of the day they all sit together and do cheers with Johnnie Walker( blue label) in their hands and laugh at our stupidity! Because we don't even know who Moists are yet!!!!
|
| Murkha_dhis |
Posted
on 03-Mar-02 11:37 AM
Meant to write Murkhadhis! :-) NOt mukhadhis
|
| Republic |
Posted
on 05-Jun-02 12:03 PM
Great discussion by Raidernation and other contributors!!!! I am always against Maoist but Radiernation definitely got some points. It is clear that Raidernation is advocating for Republic Nepal and he put lot of reasons why Nepal need to be Republic. If you people ask me, I do believe in Republic Nepal. But what my point is right now we don’t have any alternative to Monarchy. Let’s say we kick out Monarchy today, what the alternative system will be. The vacuum will be created which leads to chaos.
Unless we other alternative ( not necessarily Maobadi) system, we have to accept the current system. Nepal is having lot of problems so this is not right time to raise issue of Republic.
|
| what a joke |
Posted
on 05-Jun-02 02:13 PM
a maoist lecturing on democracy, what a laugh! you want development? do it yourself, or pay someone to do it for/to you. yes, actions do speak louder than words, but does that stops this guy's long-winded blabbering under the guise of speaking for "the people"? of course not, 'cause he's the worst enemy of "the people". by the way, i am one among you and i can say unequivocally that my country is a democracy. brb and pkd will go the way all maoists go--straight into the dustbin of history.
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| freek |
Posted
on 22-Jun-02 09:28 AM
l_ado junai jogi aaya ni kanai chedeo ko ,,,,,,, muji teo chikne baburam aayaer thik gahrcha bhanthaneko ,,,,, rada c_horo ko budi ra chori USA ma cha re hoina chine ani teo aaya ni testai ho ,,,,,,,, nepal sati le sarapeko des bhanera tesai bhaneko ,,,,, maile bhattaya ta chkinn_e jattaha neta hury lai ta katera phaldithe
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| ?? |
Posted
on 23-Jun-02 01:38 AM
You are a maoist because ...
-You do not understand the culture or economics.
-YOu do not understand the importance of global trade.
-You have no respect for human life.
-You have no regard for other opinion or belief
-You believe in killing those that question your political thinking..
-You believe in eradicating all intellectuals.
Simply, you are a maobadi because you are an idiot.
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