| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Mar-02 08:03 PM
In Nepal, we think about corruption problems of these days, and become pessimist
about future. But we know we are not the only corrupt nation in the world. I often
think about Mexico. Yes, even today, Mexico is bad, and a corrupt country. But
corrupt people there didn't enjoy impunity in late 90s when their own 'clansman'
turned against him.
When Carlos Salinas De Gortari became president by fraudulent voting in 1988,
he was merely continuing a corrupt practice of Institutional Revolutionary Party
(PRI) which had ruled Mexico since 1910s. Gortari government oversaw the killing
of two of prominent Gortari opponents and yet, Gortari managed to burnish his
image as a reformer politicia. So polished was his image when he left office in 1994
to his chosen successor Ernesto Zedillo that he was dreaming of becoming head
of WTO or getting proferssoriat of Harvard University!
But president Zedillo, once he became the president, turned against Gortari. The
swift process of democratization that followed was marked , along with other
significant events, by arrest of brother of Carlos Gortari, Raul, and exile of Carlos
to Ireland(along with shattered hope for WTO or Harvard). In 2000, President Fox
became the first president of Mexico to be elected from opposition party thereby
ending 71 years of rule by PRI.
Will change in our society, riddled with corruption, come that way in future? Now,
that new generation of leadership is likely to be more responsible to people, and
now that our system is challenged so seriously by rebels? Will someone within
NC be that courageous in future to go against his own leaders? Will the corrupt
leaders who are in their 50s or 60s be behind the bars in their 80s?
I think that will be the real victory of democracy.
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| SMSainju |
Posted
on 22-Mar-02 09:23 PM
Biswo ji,
What nepal needs is a benevolent dictator not a crap like Deuba or Girija, forget about B-maale (Did I mis-spell? or maybe A-Maale). These idiots don't even know how to talk far from doing a real politics for better.
Depravity plagued culture of ours is a long way daunting strife for any one who so choose to become a good one. I will say it again, over 95% of us have some ties to curroption and we have no shame to bark this curroption crap and it really makes me sick. Pardon my french, but when things go lewinski, we only know how to point fingers at other while forgetting to do the same damn thing at ourselves. Anyone can talk the talk, only few can walk the walk.
What we need is some of these walkers, who are smart, educated, possibly with some fortune (that way they don't need to be worried about money), experience of the corporate world and all the good stuff (a plus). Those who will not be afraid to put the curropts in the gas chember. And that what we need....
please accept my sincere apology for using profane language.
SMSainju
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 23-Mar-02 11:31 AM
Saijuji:
I understand your frustration with establishment and critics alike. Actually, I share
that. Unfortunately, here I am critic, and so I have to respond to your criticism.
I think critics shouldn't be singled out for writing what they think. The collective
repugnance against current leadership is largely due to the observant critics. Rana
rulers in their century long oppression never conceded to the fact that they were
corrupt. So, it took so long for us to overthrow them. But our leaders, thanks to
relentless push and harsh criticism from our open society,now at least say that
the leadership is corrupt, and in fact, may be it is sham, but they are forced to
constitute a committee to probe their own property.
"Benevolent dictator" is not easy to find out, let's face it. We tried everything in
the past. Mahendra was supposed to be such type of dictator. I read his speeches
in "Nepalko Eitihasik Darpan". He always complained Kathmandu's intellectuals are
not helping him. He made more speeched, more direct appeal to poor people than
any other king. But what we got? An autocracy that further harmed us in 30
years.
That's why I think democracy is the right tool. Some person, like you said in your
posting, courageous, educated, industrious etc (let me add one: responsible to
people) will be the right choice. However, what I always believe is this: if we let
this democracy persist, most of the corrupt ministers of now will be behind bars
in their 80s, no matter who is in power then. They can loot the nation now, but
they won't be living their later years any better than Milosevic or Ponochet.
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| makuro |
Posted
on 23-Mar-02 01:32 PM
Solution is just like putting bell in cat's neck, everybody knows, but no one dares to do it!
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 24-Mar-02 03:18 PM
The topic of corruption frequents Kurakani quite frequently. Although all critics grossly identify it as the core of the problems of Nepal, it is my greatest disappointment to see them failing to understand the complexity of the problem and recommending sometimes childish measures to fight it. Generally I see an erroneous reductionism regarding corruption prevalent among Sajha critics barring a few. To many, corruption gets reduced to the cases of a few extra bucks they have to put into Karmachari’s pocket in order to get things done, for example, at the custom of Tribhuvan International Airport, a classic example or made so by Sajha critics by their vehement and relentless criticism. The proposed campaign of posting the names of Ghusyahas is another case in point. This popular reductionism of corruption has an explainable psychological base. It is basically driven by their subconscious attempt to deny themselves as being a part of the corruption system, their attempt to save themselves from being portrayed as accomplice. This, as a matter of fact, adds another dimension in the complexity of corruption in Nepal.
Without elaborating much, I will say that the judicial commission formed recently to investigate the properties of the officials undermines the complexity of the corruption in Nepal. I bet it is going to fail. The only positive thing that will come out of this drama is that it will be crystal clear then that Nepal needs more than a few dramas to fight against corruption. What exactly do we need to fight corruption ?
Biswo and SMsainju both have addressed this question sincerely and I think there is a lot of truth and commonality in their assessments. Biswo’s 'courageous democrat leader' and Smsainju’s 'benevolent dictator' is essentially the same person. The difference is only vocabulary. And I too think that is the only way to rescue and put Nepal in a right track. We need a Nepali Lee Kuan Yew. And things should start by putting Paras behind the bar. It is not an emotional stuff. It will be a litmus test for reality check in Nepal. And there are much more than that about it. That's for some other occasions.
Nepe
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 24-Mar-02 06:54 PM
Nepeji:
Seeking a dictator to solve our problem is a reductionist approach. I didn't seek a
dictator. I just don't like dictators. So, please be sure that I don't believe that a
dictator can root out corruption. Permanent solution is in institutionalizing anti-
corruption feelings in Nepal.
Let's think this way. We have infrastructure in place now. Supreme court, CIAA
etc. What more we need? An investigating structure directly under CIAA head,
who btw is very powerful as a head of constitutional body.CIAA now suffers not
really from willingness but from lack of investigators under it. The government is
always hesitating to provide it much needed investigative body under it. CIAA will
also need a very expert group of workers who will work hard to punish the guilty.
Lawyers, scientists, police etc.
Lee Kwan Yeu succeeded partly because Singapore is a small country.(dissent
welcome). I believe that willingness of Lee Kwan Yeu is also found in Zhu Rongji,
the prime minister of China. But China is simply too big to be handled by a couple
of dictatorial leaders only. What big countries like China, or Nepal, need is a
democratic infrastructure presided by a popular and energetic leader.I hope, we
will have such guy in future one day. The fact that our new generation is more
educated than older one gives me hope.
---
And Nepeji, about Paras. Paras , I think, long ceased to exist as the most
horrendous criminal in the kingdom. He "just" killed three people, right? He is in
watch list! Oh, do I sound too cruel? I apologize for that. The stack of unidentified
corpses about which Khagendra Sangraula wrote in Kantipur somedays ago made
me callous from inside.Yep, we have thousands more murders still unaccounted.
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| manu |
Posted
on 25-Mar-02 03:05 AM
The root of the problem is "Bahun caste" in nepal please read a book called "fediality and democracy" by Mr.Bista
M
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 25-Mar-02 11:30 AM
Biswoji,
When I said ‘Biswo’s 'courageous democrat leader' and SMsainju’s 'benevolent dictator' is essentially the same person’, I was actually interpreting SMsainju’s ‘benevolent dictator’ as a courageous democrat leader, not the other way round. Because I think SM is advocating for a ‘dictator’ who will put all the corrupts and criminals behind the bar and suppress things like Nepal Banda or Chakka jam if they are in support of these criminals, rather than suspending all kinds of freedom and violating human rights, to give a preview of my understanding. Therefore I think SM and myself are only against anarchy, not against democracy.
Let me add one more thing. I think a party (any party) can not provide LEADERSHIP for Nepal, only an individual leader can and should. Please note that I emphasized leadership. Also, please do not interpret it as advocating for a partyless system. I think we need political parties. They constitute what Paschim refers as ‘rajya samyantraKo khaka’. That’s all. Political parties should provide leaders but not the leadership. I think Ashu’s view that CWC of political parties in Nepal should be banned is relevant in this context. As Ashu rightly claims, CWCs of the political parties are essentially ruling Nepal. It should be stopped. We should let the prime minister, not the CWC, run the country. We need an all-powerful prime minister (my personal preference would be a president !!!), not a pawn of his/her political party. How this gets consolidated practically may show a tinge of dictatorship. And I think that’s fine. That’s what we need.
Regarding equivalency of Paras and those unattended decaying corpse in the jungle of Chhinchu that Sangraula mentioned is ridiculous. For one thing, whoever died (or killed) in that jungle (Maoists or army/police, for argument’s sake), they died/killed for a cause (establishing a republic or fighting terrorism, whatever one like to choose). Whoever were killed are Shahid (at least for one of the parties). You can not compare that with the murder committed by Paras, unless he did it for a cause which I am unaware of.
Nepe
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 25-Mar-02 03:19 PM
Unfortunately corruption and most problems in Nepal can be reduced to one simple word: poverty. Lack of economic opportunity probably is the root of all evil and malaise in our society. So any attempt to improve the situation cannot be accomplished without first targeting alleviating poverty. Maybe it sounds too simple, but that is the first step. Whether democracy is appropriate for that or not is a different issue. What difference does a system make to the hungry and the naked?
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| SMSainju |
Posted
on 26-Mar-02 06:48 AM
I could not agree more with you siwalik ji. Someone grabs my neck and asks what the most important thing is in my life. I would answer, "my next breath."
Democracy is not for everyone. What really is the difference between the democracy in Nepal and in the US for instance? It really depends on us how we use it or abuse it. "Chinne lai Sri Khanda, Na chinne lai Khurpa ko Bind."
Not that I don't support democracy, but Nepal is not in a situation to practice it. In this regard, I merely advocate a "Benevolent Dictator," who will by any means put his/her heart and soul together to make everyones life better.
We need four things in Nepal.
1. Bijuli Batti (which we already have and we need to work little harder to make it better)
2. Bato Ghato (We really need to work very hard)
3. Uddhog Dhanda ( lot need to be done)
4. Shicha Dichya ( lot need to be done)
These are the 4 major areas, if anyone can work around these, it won't take much to make our country better.
SMSainju
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| voodoo nut |
Posted
on 26-Mar-02 07:00 AM
Nepal needs a strong JUSTICE system before anything else. Right now there is no justice. The rich and the powerful are above the law. The law needs to be strong before there is any hope of development.
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 26-Mar-02 10:37 AM
samanata... is one of the esssential elements, and of course "equality of opportunity". And above all, despite everything else, there should be a sustained "common vision" that gives hope to the teaming mass of poor. "Hope" can come from visionary thurtworthy leadership, social equality or justice, or econoic opportunity--anything to believe in the present and the future. At the moment there is nothing but despair. Even a small organization, when it fails, needs to change its strategies from the lessons it learns. The same goes for a state. Nepal has been a total failure so far. If it doesn't learn and change, then there will be no Nepal to speak of within the next few decades.
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| Anti Mao |
Posted
on 27-Mar-02 08:53 AM
"Awareness" , that is the word. we need to bring awareness in our homeland people. Education plays the main role in any country's development. We need to educate our people. Education will open a eyes of innocent and ignorant people of our country then they can tell what is wrong and what is right. Lots of people in our country are still in the dark. People in nepal are just like a folk of sheep....always move together and if one fall in ditch...then everybody...
Its time for everybody to use their own mind. "WAKE UP, NEPALI"
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Mar-02 07:06 PM
We lack so many things that our priority should be in making infrastructure for
next couple of decades. Panchayat had identified it rightly, when they were
repeatedly saying 'sikshya, swasthya ra yaataayaat'. Source of misery in
hinterlands is mainly because they lack access to market, and thus can't sell their
product. We definitely need a web of roads all over the kingdom.
I am an optimistic person, and I am very hopeful of next generation leadership.
Let's take Tandi as an example. We have a 40something mayor. Nobody in town
leadership is accused of being corrupt. People are less likely to fight over politics.
Besides, the local highschool, a public one, is rich because the highschool
headmaster constructed houses, and rented them to local business. (In chitwan,
a lot of public highschool are really rich!) When someone made plan to make a
local hospital in Tandi(despite the fact that Bharatpur has 3 hospitals, and is just
13 kilometers away), people poured in money. Personal donation ranged from Rs
Eight Lakh(believe me) to a couple of hundreds. Project for a really good library
is underway. Farmers spent 1 million rupess to make a modern marketplace where
they could sell their cattle. Road system is so perfect that most of the villages
are accessible by roads. Buses operates between Pithuwaa, Chainpur, Kapiyaa
etc now, and ,believe me, even I haven't been to some of those villages because
of their perceived inaccessibility in the past. Most of the roads were paved by the
contribution of villagers themselves (thus no more 'arkaako mukh taakne' system).
Political awareness is also on the rise. People quickly got rid of Jagrit Bhetwal,
despite his vaunted past, when report in national media surfaced about his
use of allowance available only to female MPs (Sutkeri Bhattaa).
Now, equal opportunity is a crucial factor. Equal opportunity in job is more
important than in any other fields. Possible disgruntlement in minorities, and poor
segment stems mainly because of lack of equal opportunity and feeling of being
descriminated. However, right predictors are also abound. Last time, I talked to
a journalist with The Kathmandu Post, and he told me they try to make their
staff as diverse as possible. I was particularly happy when he asked me if I could
recommend some Tharus with good English command for The Kathmandu Post.
I always think that we are still in right track. Forums like Sajha.com can contribute
a lot to develop the concept of equitable share of national resources across the
population. This is something we all can be proud of.
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