| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Mar-02 11:23 PM
Though I don't believe leftists that much, one report in today's Kantipur started
me. The arrested journos say they were asked by military personnels , "What
happens if we take over?"
I feel RNA somehow wants itself to be identified with king, not with elected
government. This is understandable, but sad. Prajwal Shamsher's assertion about
elected officials is right, but unfortunate. (See Kantipur's today's opinion page)
Prajwal Shamsher , for the sake of RNA and for the strength of RNA, needs to
tell his officers that there is nothing above parliament, and these same dudeds
who are corrupt and who are hopelessly incapable of leading the nation are de
facto head of nation. They need to ask nomore to nobody whether they should be
taking the helm.
I think RNA shouldn't try to alienate political parties ever. I support RNA's effort,
but RNA is not only one who is shedding blood. Congressi , UML activists are also
shedding blood, and they are the one really fighting against Maoists. RNA merely
represents their one of the powers. RNA is just a part of Congress and UML. So,
it is time that Congress leaders, UML leaders stop spewing nonsense about RNA,
let the country run in the stable course, and RNA stop railroading NC, UML activists
as well as journalists. (Oh,gosh, did anyone notice the report of one global
journalists association that specifically cited Nepal as a reason for the surge of
international repression on journalists this year? We are along with Eritrea, and other African nations, I think.) Guys, just sit down, and talk rather than publicly
giving speech. People become anxious. Act like grown up.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 04:09 AM
I agree with Biswo, but I just couldn't resist from answering the question posed in the title by saying: "DON'T THEY DARE". A democratic multi-party polity is here to stay and thrive, and no momentary upheaval should and will be used as an excuse to sabotage the most fundamental gain Nepal has had since its unification in 1769.
Do I agree with the CNC's assessment of the current crop of politicians? Yes, absolutely. To borrow my own character Uma Chand's phrase yet again, many of these "bastards need to be castrated", and I tell you, they will be, as we tighten our nodes of check-and-balance, brush up the channels of accountability, and voters wise up in disgust. I actually told a handful of politicians in Nepal last month in their face, "You folks began your political careers from prisons as idealists. You will end your careers in the same prisons as criminals". So, yes, of course the current morass is a result of everything that has gone awry in the system. If it hadn't erred so tragically, the ambitions of the handful of Maoist leaders wouldn't have succeeded in preying on our usual vulnerabilities - the poverty, the marginalization of regions, of nations, within a country. These need urgent redressal through other means, not violence. And yes, many MPs, not to mention the current Home Minister, have settled for very immature and demoralizing assessments of the army's performance so far. So Prajwal is right here, too.
But more fundamentally, I find this blame-game intriguing. Let's face it, before the emergency, the army had us believe that once they become active, this problem would be "cleansed" in no time. So confident were they that in order to do this "cleansing in no time", they asked for sweeping authority, and money, and the Emergency was their fundamental pre-condition. So, Girija was right in saying in Dhulikhel the other day that it was introduced at the will of the Army; and Prajwal's denial is a lie. We all know under what unceremonious circumstances after the Holleri incident in Rolpa that Girija resigned. Emergency is in place to facilitate the Army's operation against the terrorists. It's a fact.
Yes, at a time of national crisis like this, we should bury our petty complaints and instead focus on the bigger cause of supporting the teachers, the farmers, the police and the sainiks who are fighting the real war against the Maoists daily in the villages. But don't we as citizens, and don't our MPs as our representatives, have a right to question just how effective the army operation has been to date, and what they have given us in return for what we have given up for them - the suspension of rights, the billions of 'development' dollars that have been siphoned off to finance their 'gasti bhatta', the time of nearly 5 months? They must be accountable for their actions to the parliament, not the king, and account for the generous rights, time, and money we have given them. I am very curious to hear their case backed up with evidence.
But many say the army has not been as effective as they had given the impression, ex-ante. I wrote someplace else in this forum that amidst all the chaos this past year, two good things happened: the army and the palace got demystified. I said, "they knew they were no holy cows, but now they know we know too." I'm afraid, I have to interpret Prajwal's latest utterance as nothing more than a pre-emptive move to save face disguised as panic. By trying to shift the blame of his failed leadership, wrongly, onto those who we already know are "bastards", but have in this cae given teh army everything they wanted, Prajwal is just playing a cheap sympathy game, and shirking his responsibility. This is, after all, a man who was on leave from the army for 9 days doing a Durga Puja when 57 of his men, and our brothers, got shot, execution style, at point blank range, on 17 Feb in Mangalsen. What price an incompetence of one silly man? The sooner he makes way for his more abler deputy, Pyar Jung Thapa, the better. If he doesn't resign, he should be fired. I'd like to see a re-invigorated army operation under fresh leadership with new strategies that actually deliver. We just can't afford to become the Sierra Leone of Asia, as our education money is paid to finance their helicopters, commissions, 'bhatta to do half-hearted gasti', and even their pondering, allegedly, of "what happens if we take over"?! Jeezzz.....How dare they?
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 08:52 AM
"You folks began your political careers from prisons as idealists. You will end your
careers in the same prisons as criminals."
Wow. I wish I too could tell this same sentence to some of them. Believe me,
Paschimji, I definitely think it is going to be true. Somewhat ,at least, Pinochet like.
Prajwal's strength is , until now, his avuncular demeanour. But he acts like his
organization is a holy cow. A lot of time, he was not reprimanded eventhough
he made some controversial remarks. I see a propensity of equating democracy
with a system of corrupt leaders in them. The first priority of Prajwal Shamsher
is to introspect himself, teach his boys the Democracy101, Human Right101, and
,if possible, resign so as to facilitate a new leadership. Prajwal already owes us
an apology because palace massacre happened in his leadership, and he was
doing charuhom while Salyan was burning!
But, like I said earlier, they need to realise their boss is parliament. I am eagerly
awaiting the result of summon state committee of house issued to him somedays
ago. I have heard he is going to explain to them at least what went wrong, and
what is going wrong within army!
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 08:56 AM
Biswo and Paschim,
Excellent arguments.
Unfortunately, I sense that there is NOT much of public space in Nepal to
raise the kind of questions/concerns you have raised bravely in this forum.
Our journalists and members of the civil society seem more and more terrified
to publicly analyze, for instance, PSR's that intriguing press conference and
more.
Sushil Sharma, a correspondent for BBC Nepali Radio in Kathmandu once told
me that during the Panchayati days the only kind of NEGATIVE editorials he was allowed to write for The Rising Nepal (where he was working at the time) was
the ones attacking South Africa's apartheid.
Attacking South Africa's apartheid, said Sharma, was safe, easy, uncontroversial, believable and it diverted the attention from Panchayat's own various failings.
Likewise, 12 years after the restoration of democracy, attacking our netas for all the sins has become such a past time that the it has become a safe, easy, uncontroversial and believable tool for the likes of PSR to divert attention
from some their own works.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| Parakhi |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 12:20 PM
Whatever caused politicians accusing Army and Army accusing politicians is not a good sign for the democracy. The conflict of interest in between the military and civil power of the government will be a great morale booster for the maoists. Once there is cold environment between these two, the security arrangement could be loose and un-coordinated which will technically help maoists to spread more terrorist activities.
The possible causes of PSR coming to publicly saying this could be to shield Deuba against possible leg-pulling game of power from Girija group. It may, in short run, make Deuba stronger, but the democracy itself, in a long run, will be much weaker. Neither one can forget the remarks by Girija about army in general and Khum Bahadur's remarks after the mangalsen incidents.
It is clear that army wanted to have emergency imposed before their active movement. Because they knew, there could go some bad things while doing so and they wanted it keep from general public discussing their strategy or actions, just an effort to keep people's ignorance about what is going within the army.
Army is not "Dudhle Dhoyeko Gai" and there are huge scandals and corruption within the budget they are given from the government. Commission from Ration to rockets are some examples. They have advantage of secrecy within the system and people don't know much about them. On the other hand, civialian part of the government is somewhat transparent. Here people know who got how much in what? Since, everybody is involved in this, no one has the will power to take action againsts each other. For example, how Girija would punish Khum, Govinda, Mahesh or Gachhedar? How Deuba punish Khum, KC and Wagle? Everybody know what Girija or Deuba did during the past decade and present.
Let's reckon the example of two ministers in forestry accusing each other and both being dismissed from the cabinet. It's some good sign that army and politicians are accusing each other if we believe "snakes see snake's leg" and there is one mechanism where punishing both parties are possible before they get into a mutual agreement. But where is that? Does it lie with King or does the power lays with Maoists, or do people have that power, or a foreign country or international agency?
The role of opposition party UML is always unstable and unpredictable. Congress is just a mass of opportunists and leg pullers. And politicians developed a culture from nowhere that opposition has to oppose whatever the government brings and government has to overcome with one issue it brings by crushing legitimate oppose from the opposition. How did they get that?
=========
One thing I always wonder is if there is any democracy in Nepal? If peole ever had freedom to express their views? Let's see MPs. They can never represent in the parliamentary issues what they are feeling what is good or bad for the people in their constituency? Is there any Whip system in anywhere in the world?
|
| BalBhadra |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 02:05 PM
I am really sorry but I do have to disagree with all of you on this. Most of the things you say is very true but not this one. And dragging corruption of army isn't helping your argument Parakhi, and neither are you being logical Paschim.
I have heard about corruption in army because I do have some people in that institution. But you have failed to tell me what has been the effects of corruption in army in our society. Negligible. Why? Do you know? Because they are not involved in the daily activities of society. But look at the same side on police, why don't you mention their inabiliy to curb the maoist during the last six years? Corruption? It makes so much of a differece where corruption takes place. Multiply that ten to twenty fold to people in the government and the representatives and you get what effect corruption has been.
My second point is spending for the army. We all know defence costs are huge and they should be made to a minimum. But that does not mean we do not buy to safegaurd our people. Do you all remember the time when indian fighter jets used to come into Eastern Nepal? We did not even have a single anti-aircraft gun. We should buy equipments that are necessary.
About this situation coming to a quick end. That might have been on all our minds but we have disregarded the experience and the expertise these rebels have on the areas they control. We must also uderstand that they have always been prepared to take on the army. And finally we can't forget that fact that rebels are Nepalese too. How is one to distinguish between a rebel and an ordinary man?
And last but not the least to Paschim, I do not know why you are so frustrated with the army? What is your trouble? They have been out for only five months and you are crying foul? You have better words for Girija than PSR. That is very unfair. Emergency was installed to facilitate the government of Nepal to get rid of the rebels. You cannot talk about the army as being a entity to itself. It has a purpose, and the constitution to abide by.
Power struggles happen everywhere. But we all have forgotten what people want. And that my friend is not democracy. As I have understood from all the experience and education, ordinary people just have a desire to live, and have a happy life. Weather they want a democracy, oligarchy or monarchy is upto them to decide. Killing moaists isn't going solve how to bring food, home eveyday. And our successive governments failed us terribly. And that has what has brought the emergency.
Balbhadra
|
| SR |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 08:46 PM
I have a sympathy with the viewpoint of CNC Rana. Some of his statement are politically wrong, yet they are not totally unwarrented given the current situation (home minister is busy in arranging logistics for kidnaping business man for ransom and criticiing army or their inefficiency!). It is just a natural process that when there is a vacum in political governance, some other organ should take its place. CNC has not minced his words to give an impression that RNA is defacto in-charge. Does not the statement that "only prime minister and some young ministers who understand the security situation are extending the requisite support to the RNA" indicate that role of the Deuba government is already limited to "extending the requisite support" rather than provide a political leadership for effective military operation.
Saying, so I can see the point Bishwa and Pachim are making. You people are very right in sketching a "desirable" scenario. Unfortunately, the scenario now unfoding in Nepal seems to be quite different from the one you find desirable.
Neutral
----------------------------------
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 09:24 PM
Balbhadra-ji, thank you for your comments. The first paragraph of my above posting and numerous other musings on this forum, humorous or otherwise, clearly lay down my dim impressions of the current crop of politicians, including Girija, so I need not repeat all that. But in the specific context of the Emergency, my point is, these politicians and the people have pretty much given the Army whatever they wanted within our means. We are living under an Emergency, and the amount of development money siphoned off for security allowances, etc. is just mind boggling - and so is the impending fiscal crisis. Our compulsion is that we need to do all this, as nothing will happen unless the terror is quelled and peace is restored. But in return, can we not ask the army: hey, could you brief us on what you have achieved so far with all that we've given you? In a democracy this should be a normal process. The CNC either in person, or through his boss the Defense Minister, should be grilled in the parliament on the basic tenets of accountability - the giving and taking of rights and finance. I think this has been grudgingly slated for Monday. I am curious to hear on how that session transpires.
My problem is more fundamental. While the Army is beginning to use the rhetoric of them being mobilized by the elected government under the constitution, they are, I'm afraid, failing to honor other provisions of the constitution, starting with the ambiguity of control (I really hope that proposed constitutional amendment goes through the Houses soon to establish a firm civilian majority in the National Defence Council from 2/3 to 8/9) . Worse, they are still pretending that they are as sanctimonious an entity, the invincible and the unassailable, as vacuous as the myth that they've created in an unholy alliance with the Palace since 2017. I'm sorry, but time hasn't been generous in delaying the exposure of the Army's charade as well as that of its patron the Palace. We now know the incompetence and the corruption there is as bad as that in any other Nepali institution from the Police to the Civil Service. Given the class composition, pedigree, and educational backgrounds of the top brass of the Army, I know this accusation comes to them as humiliation, but for how long shall we go on to sacrifice reality to save a petty group's vanity? This continued assumption of holy posture on their part is just not convincing. Not any more. From Narayanhiti on June 1, 2001, to Mangalsen on February 17, 2002, I don't know of a single occasion when the Army has explained to us through our parliamentary representatives the account of their roles. I'm mentioning PSR because as the CNC, the buck stops with him. If in the place of PSR, the CNC had been Ganeshman Singh's 'lauro', I would have called on the 'lauro' to quit too. So it's not about the person, per se.
Rather than seeking to make amends in good faith in the face of demonstrated failures in performance as well as leadership, this latest incident of PSR actually putting on an added air of pretense and attempting to shift responsibility onto the politico buffoons who we already know are losers is quite dishonest, irritating and shameless. That is what I am annoyed about.
I continue to support the Army's operation against the Maoists, and would want to give them much more time, money, legal provisos, and equipment to fight this war better. But for that the Army has to account for its performance to date, and propose new strategies under a fresh leadership, because maintaining the status quo in both the leadership and the modus operandi is not delivering at all. This is a basic practice in management. And o fcourse, this alleged pondering on their part to "take over" is quite Shakespearean, I must say.
Just my thoughts, Balbhadra-ji, you are welcome to disagree.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Mar-02 10:37 PM
I totally agree with Paschim. However, I have to respectfully differ with SRji.
Ok, there is a weak polity in place in Nepal, and it is natural for another organ of
state to try to take over power whenever there is a power vacuum. But by trying
to differentiate army and government, you are forgetting the basic tenet of our
governance:that even before dark Rana ages,our military system has been firmly
in civilian hands. Our policy has consistently been this:that government will support
military economically, and set agenda for it. RNA is traditionally an organization
without think tank. Nascent The RNA Military Acadamy is though an addition
towards having military's own think tank , and to think that it would provide the
theoretical basis for governance by RNA is naive and merely a reverie.
Fundamentally wrong is the notion that our democracy is in the dayaamaayaa of
these colonels and other military brass. King Birendra, to remind you, was forced
to give up his authority, and this is historical truth. We love king, but we don't want
him to wield power. Mahendra in his speech in Janakpur circa 2020 complained(source for me: Grishma Bdr Devkotako Nepalko Rajnitik Darpan) that intellectuals
were not helping him. Birendra knew this all along, and that was the reason why
he almost perfectly remained loyal to constitution after '46. The democracy is there
to stay despite the supposed threat from RNA.
RNA tried to benefit from rift between fractious civilian parties, and this is the most
unfortunate thing.I remember once the then PM Girija(oh it is again safe game
to blame him) complained that House Comittee is giving trouble to nation's defense
authorities. It was a wrong complaint, Girijaesque, of course. We need to show
the bunch of those military officers who is in the helm. Sher Bdr also shouldn't take
comfort in the fact that he is cozy with army. He is the boss, and army willynilly
needs to follow his command.I think if we civilians really want to confront these old
timers in army and palace, they cringe back. Remember when Girija told king
Gyanendra if he is supporting the elements who say he should take power, king
Gyanendra replied, " No, no, I never wanted that active power.."(Bimarsha).
These reactionaries are coward bunches, and they have no guts to sabotage what
is acc to Paschim the most fundamental achievement after Nepal's unification.
A small example. Gyanendra was the boss of King Mahendra Trust. Despite its
progress in the past, the trust is in shambles since last decade. Doesn't that tell
that despite the unlimited power(includes sending as 'gift' our prized rhinos), the
organization directly under the cream of Shah family couldn't work? How can
we say the nation is gonna work better?
|
| SR |
Posted
on 29-Mar-02 02:58 AM
Biswo ji,
I appreciate your view, and also braodly agree with at least from normative viewpoint. I would also exactly point out the same things as you have done here if I am asked what the things SHOULD BE? But I am more interested to think about "what the things WOULD BE".
>Fundamentally wrong is the notion that our
>democracy is in the dayaamaayaa of
>these colonels and other military brass.
>King Birendra, to remind you, was forced
>to give up his authority, and this is
>historical truth.
Yes, the spirit of 2046 ko andolan and our constituion say so. And I do not see much evidence that RNA is very interested in politics. In a way, we should be thankful to RNA for their ability not let the party politics enter into their system. It has now emerged as the only credible institution which can act on broader national interest. If politicians continue to make a mokery of democracy, I would not be surprised to find our democracy "in the dayaamaayaa of
these colonels and other military brass".
SR (aka Neutral)
----------------------
|
| cleveland |
Posted
on 30-Mar-02 07:38 AM
Hi I am a student, now settled in cleveland. and reading your thread with a lot of interest. I am not much into this, but hope to find time for this extremely enriching debate.
|
| waiwai |
Posted
on 30-Mar-02 08:37 AM
So if the last 12 years were really good in exposing the corrupt leaders ( just exposing, since apparently they cannot be purged), do you think that this emergency will be able to expose the "phohor" of the army? Like Pascim said the Royal palace and the army has been demystified, and i also consider this good. but one thing that does bother me (i think someone else might have raised this concern also) is that when we remove the gray area of the control of the army, then won't the incapable political force try to dismantle it also, like they have systematically done with other institutions. by this i mean their eagerness to put their unqualified chamchas and making the institution highly ineffective. Imagining Khun..I mean Khum Bhahadur, as a warlord is not that far fetched (in his district he already is) and if his likes have the army to play with....scary!!
But the army does have to answer to us, the citizens, and since we chose corrupt leaders as our representatives, they have to answer to them. I don't know if they will dare to take over, I am sure they have already contemplated it. Although I am not a conspiracy buff, if i wanted to milk the situation, i would not be winning all the time. by losing sometimes, it is easier to gain the sympathy of the nation, and get more people on your side. after all even armed forces under fully democratic governments have been able to milk public sentiments to their fullest. Whatever the reason may be for army not appearing as effective as they should, there are people dying everyday, and it puts more pressure on the army than on the politicians, who are busy stalling the house, and making senseless speeches and trips.
On a related note, it does seem like the monarch is getting more assertive. I just read that they are visiting the Maoist affected areas. Even Paras visited Dang and talked to locals for about 2 hours, according to Kantipur. At face value, this is commendable. Maybe, after years of neglect the people in these areas might see that someone in kathmandu is concerned about their situation. The report in Kantipuronline says, "None of such visits have been made by any government officials so far ever since the imposition of the state of emergency"
I find this discussion to be very interesting, and needed. Like ashu said, there is not much space in nepal to raise these kind of issues, but we are able to here, and we need to..
Another issue i wanted to hear some views on is the constitutional amendments. Maybe this has already been discussed before, if it has can someone point me to that, it’s impossible to filter through to the good discussions, but what do you guys think about it?
|
