| Username |
Post |
| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 11:54 AM
How much deos that go hand-in-hand?
I personally think although some of the Harvard graduates here at sajha.com try very hard to potray themselves as the rest of us, but their subtle ego is easily tracable.
Wonder if others think the same.
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| Reply |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 12:04 PM
May be it sounds to some of us as an ego. But I always try to learn from them.
They need to impart their knowledge to us.
Note: I am not Harvard guy posing as Reply. I am just a regular visitor here.
Anyway, Sajha.com won't benefit from non-Harvard guys only! It needs all people.
Gear up for big time meeting with intellectual people, here!
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| duhhhh |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 12:11 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Who the heck even cares who Jeff sachs is and what he's eating for breakfast???
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| Achilles |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 12:25 PM
>May be it sounds to some of us as an ego.
>But I always try to learn from them.
That is interesting. Sure we need to learn but just because they are from Harvard, well that is taking it too far. Now the contribution (or the lack of it) of Mr Sachs in economics would have been interesting. What seems to be discussed is Mr Sachs meandearings. How would THAT be intesting to anyone but who know him in person (or as Paschim put to those famous five Nepalis who had the good fortune of taking a class with him.)
When I read such postings (usually by Harbard grads), I am reminded of a line from a famous story "Death of Ivan Illych". But that would be the subject of another posting.
>They need to impart their knowledge to us.
>
>Note: I am not Harvard guy posing as Reply.
>I am just a regular visitor here.
>Anyway, Sajha.com won't benefit from non-
>Harvard guys only! It needs all people.
>Gear up for big time meeting with
>intellectual people, here!
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| arnico |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 12:56 PM
Dear hmmmmm, duhhhh and others.
I think kurakani has become large enough and diverse enough to allow lots of different threads to coexist simultaneously which do not necessarily need to address all visitors at the same time. Hopefully, the subject heading will make it clear enough to you whether you want to open a thread or not. If you are not interested in Jeff Sachs, then don't read that thread. It turns out that some of us happen to have encountered the man in the past (he is a teacher), and are interested in what he is doing in the future. As long as we don't hurt, misportray, insult, or otherwise harm anyone else... why are you bothered?
As for the more general negative comments about expressions of ego, I have two comments:
1) There is enough diversity among Nepali graduates of Harvard that you should beware of generalizing. I am glad to see that you said "some". A few statements on kurakani in the past (not in this thread, and probably not even written by you), have at times been quite hurtful in the way they made generalized statements about a group of people.
2) Probably the experience shared by the largest number of Harvard graduates is that of hard work. Buildings may be well maintained, and dining service food may be plentyful, but beyond that, life at Harvard is HARD, harder than at many schools. Any Harvard degree is earned with lots of sweat and sleep deprivation and at times misery... keep that in mind.
3) Kurakani has been quite successful in attracting an increasing number of people who are interested in problems of the world beyond their personal lives. When people discuss larger issues and make statements about the world beyond their personal lives, or when people call for clarity and logical arguements that may sometimes appear to sound like expressions of ego. Almost always that is not the intention of the writer. Some of the participants at these discussions happen to have graduated from Harvard. Many more have attended other schools that are as good or better. If you have problems with individual writers, address them. Please do not link writers' personalities to the schools they attended.
|
| arnico |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 01:01 PM
>That is interesting. Sure we need to learn
>but just because they are from Harvard, well
>that is taking it too far.
agreed.
>Now the
>contribution (or the lack of it) of Mr Sachs
>in economics would have been interesting.
Agreed. Would probably be interested to a far larger group of kurakani visitors. Economists in the forum, please enlighten us...
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| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 01:52 PM
My thoughts were in general and never really meant anything specific.
I have seen similar problems even with Budhanilkanthe's and Xavieians, their ego upto the neck. They have been out of high-school for years now and they think there is no one like them and they are some sort of superior beings. Unless you come up with some of your own stuff, you are dhulo to them
I tend to believe that all of us have different experiences in life. A proter who takes the load on his back and walks upto namche has his life experiences that no Harvard graduate or Budhanilkanthe can attain.
People tend to forget that. I guess the American culture of flaunting your credentials whenever or whereever possible have been attached with them with their Harvard Degrees.
hmmm....
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| diwas k |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 02:06 PM
Heard in Cambridge: ".. there are two kinds of people in Cambridge (MA). Ones that eat/drink/breathe Harvard, and the rest of us..." or sth like that. Matt Damon and Robin Williams' GOOD WILL HUNTING would have made that clear... :)
_diwas
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| Bikas |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 02:22 PM
... more postings in one day than I was planning to ...
I agree with Arnico. While I admit I have benefited a lot from my Harvard education (and connections I made while there), that certainly is not my whole life and those years don't (exclusively) define what I say or do. [I could make the same claim about St. Xavier's and about Columbia, while at the same time not denying their contributions to my personal growth.] I have met too many Nepalis from different walks of life that have really interesting things to say to predicate the value of their opinion on their institutional affiliation, age, or ... take your pick of discriminatory practices. And Harvard (and, I'm sure, many other institutions Nepalis have attended) is too diverse to make broad generalizations like that; just take a look at paths that graduates of the college have taken. While no two Nepali friends I made at Harvard are alike (except for their dedication and their passion for whatever they are doing), I have learned a lot from all of them.
As for a discussion of contributions of Professor Sachs to economics, please check out my comment in another thread (http://www.gbnc.org/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfmforum=2&ThreadID=4308#20367). They are too extensive for me to summarize here. But having worked in this discipline for a decade now (and having been inspired by the likes of Sachs and Bhagwati), I might be able to answer a question or two if you had any about anything specific. Please feel free to email me.
Bikas
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| JhismiseBihani |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 02:27 PM
Hey! if you are smart enough, hard working enough to get into some of the best schools in the world, there is nothing wrong being a little cocky as long as you are not condesecending to others. I did not go to any Ivy League schools but if I had,
I would not probably be able to help myself being little proud of myself and if people viewed that as being arrogant so be it.
This is thesame thing that folks in nepal say about Nepalese here in US.
"...America baat pharkera kasto shaan"
So more power to you guys who went to Harvard or wherever.
There is nothing wrong if someone posts something on Jeff Sachs in this post. I personally had never heard of this guy but there is nothing wrong in learning a little about who he is. Just because I am in computer field does not mean I should shut out everything not related to computers.
Besides, I am indirectly benefitting in a small way from what they learned in Harvard. I welcome it. I not welcome it but encourage member of this board to share their knowledge. I for one have enjoy reading them. Thank you!
JB
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| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 02:40 PM
JB, you seem to be the biggest brown-noser in this forum. I think you will perfectly fit for a Government Job in Nepal. You will get to be sachib real past with your "chakari" skills.
Really, I am serious. hmmm....
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| stopTheWitchHuntWillYou |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 02:44 PM
hmmm,
Stop the witch hunt, will you? this guy JB hasn't even mentioned his name, how
can you say he is a brown-noser? Oh, come on, dude.
As long as someone from Harvard is not insulting others, it should be fine for rest
of us.
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| JhismiseBihani |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 03:14 PM
frankly, i don't care what you think of me so i am not going to get involved into
name calling.
all i am is, i like to focus on positive aspects of people's achievements. i like to compliment and encourage them. i can always point out other people's mistakes and weaknesses but i think there is enough negativity in the world as it is and it can do with one less.
i think nepalese should celebrate what our brothers and sisters have achieved with their intelligence and hardwork and not condemn for their achievements. criticism is not bad but it should not be done with an ill will as much as possible.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 03:47 PM
>having worked in this discipline for a decade now (and having been inspired by
>the likes of Sachs and Bhagwati), I might be able to answer a question or two if
>you had any about anything specific.
Bikasji:
As a regular reader of Foreign Affairs, I find Professor Bhagwati's presence there
formiddable. However, his vitriolic article against protestors of antiglobalization
movement in the last issue of Foreign Affairs (titled something like On
Antiglobalists) was a bit shocking to me.I am not an antiglobalism fanatic, but
the issues the protestors raise sometimes sound cogent to me.
What I think is more profound and enigmatic about these protests and their
intellectual refutal is the role of prominent scholars. That it is no secret that big
school's professors are inalienably related, 'indebted' to big money institutes like
World Bank and IMF. Is that the reason why we see riffraffs of social activists,
and other 'less enlightened' folks chanting against these institutes,while professors
at Harvard and Columbia come forward with logic to shield these institutes from
criticism? What's going on here? Any idea? It will be interesting to hear your
opinion, since you worked with prof Bhagwati, regarding this, and I just didn't
understand rationale behind the fusillades against antiglobalists by Prof Bhagwati
in his article.
|
| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 03:49 PM
Its no witchhunt. Just from reading his posts at different times.
By letting others know how you feel, you are actually doing some service to them. Maybe some of these Harvard or Budhanilkantha and Xaviers guys will come down to earth and realize that we breathe the same air they do, nothing more....
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| Hutti Tyaou |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 03:52 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I think you have some sort of inferior complex. Why don't you mind your own business rather than wondering about Harvardian's or whatever's attitude problem.
Hutti
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| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 04:00 PM
Inferior complex are present in those who are very ambitious but can't make it. I am not a very ambitious person, so this inferior complex is not prevalent with me.
My belief system are very simple-- everyone has their experience in their lives and all of us are the same. How and what constitutes achievement is relative to how the society/civilization potrays your achievements.
Maybe I am inspired by J. Krishnamurti too much, but that's how I see it.
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| BDM |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 04:42 PM
Harvard students of Nepali origin aren't that smart, really. Basically, they just got in coz Harvard looks for diversity.
Just check the news y'all, Harvard teachers give A's like crazy. I guess the professors don't know how to curve or something....
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| Hutti Tyaou |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 05:07 PM
Why worry about how society/civilization portrays you. Why are you so worried about how other people think and say? Why do you care so much? Isn't that some sort of problem? You can not generalize and say that only ambitious people have inferior complex.
Think about it Hmmmmmm
Hutti
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| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 05:46 PM
Hutti Tyau, why don't you think about what I said first. You seem to be arguing for the arguments sake.
I don't think I need to repeat myself.
hmmm....
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| Hutty Tyaou |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 06:21 PM
You seem to have gotten pissed....Hmmmmmmm
you must be short temepered too...Hmmmmmmmmm please try to relax Hmmmmmmm
Hutty Tyaou Hutty Tyaou Tyaou Tyaou
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| Bikas |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 06:25 PM
>However, his [Bhagwati's] vitriolic article
>against protestors of antiglobalization
>movement in the last issue of Foreign
>Affairs (titled something like On
>Antiglobalists) was a bit shocking to me.I
>am not an antiglobalism fanatic, but
>the issues the protestors raise sometimes
>sound cogent to me.
Well... Professor Bhagwati is a firm believer in free trade, and looks at virtually everything through free-trade lenses. For instance, he did not like Clinton (even though he had the same liberal beliefs as Bhagwati), not because of myriad of other reasons (personal behavior, etc.) but solely because of his trade policy. Bhagwati did not think Clinton was doing enough to promote multilateral trade liberalization (and that the bilateral push -- NAFTA, et al. -- might have done more harm than good through things like trade diversion).
At times, I think he refuses to see certain objections from the other side (for instance, strategic nature of linkages... but more on this only if you want me to), but for the most part, I think he is correct. His basic point is this: trade is beneficial. Yes, there are problems that arise when trade occurs under certain market imperfections, but the solution to that should be not trade controls (which would not only not correct the market imperfection but also deny economies the benefit of trade) but proper, concentrated effort at correcting the said market failure. This is a result of his famous 1968 paper on domestic distortions, which is sure to be cited if (when?) he wins the Nobel. This argument would then imply that the issue of labor standards should not be addressed by using trade sanctions (because that not only protects domestic producers of the said good, but also harms consumers by forcing them to pay higher prices) but by dealing with the issue directly. And to do that, he says that the better forum is the ILO, not WTO. Why don't you take a look at his website (http://www.columbia.edu/~jb38/) and check out some of his papers. That Foreign Affairs piece really did not do justice to his argument. You might want to check out a new book of his that has come out recently, too, published by the Princeton University Press. I believe it is titled "Free Trade Today" (which is in a way a sequel to his classic "Protectionism.")
>That it is no secret that big
>school's professors are inalienably related,
>'indebted' to big money institutes like
>World Bank and IMF.
I have to take issue with this. I don't this is a correct characterization. Except for one year when he was a consultant at the World Bank (when Anne Krueger was the chief economist there), Bhagwati has never been associated with these two institutions. Their policy arguments have coincided, but that is it.
If you read his Foreign Affairs piece, "A Capital Myth" (on desirability of capital controls), you will see that he has been extremely critical of the IMF. And in many recent writings with co-author T.N. Srinivasan, he has also been quite critical of the "holistic" development strategies of the World Bank being portrayed as something new.
Sachs, too, is no big fan of these institutions. He is after all, one of the biggest critics of the IMF... He was one of the prime authors of the Meltzer Report, which criticized the IMF and suggested steps for reforming it. Over the years, he has indeed clashed both with the Bank and the Fund, most recently in terms of social spending at times of crises (with the Fund) and support for vaccines, etc (with the Bank).
You can come up with many such examples. I think one of the main reasons people like Sachs and Bhagwati defend free trade is because they truly believe in it, on empirical as well as theoretical grounds. To portray them as being anything else would be grossly inaccurate.
> Is that the reason why
>we see riffraffs of social activists,
>and other 'less enlightened' folks chanting
>against these institutes,while professors
>at Harvard and Columbia come forward with
>logic to shield these institutes from
>criticism?
I don't think the other side is full of riffraffs either. I would not dismiss sociologists like Walden Bello and activists like Lori Wallach or Ralph Nader as "riffraffs." The other side is full of academics and the like, too. One could go on and on. Yes, there are students, etc., on this side, too... but while they have good intentions, I believe many of them have been misinformed by organizations such as AFL-CIO (concerns for the poorer countries effectively cloaks protectionist intents of the organization ... more on this also if you want me to go on).
There are plenty of economists who have taken dispassionate looks at this issue. If I may, I would like to recommend one more book: "Free Trade Under Fire" by Doug Irwin (a Professor at Dartmouth). I haven't read this book yet, but he is a great expositor (his earlier "Against the Tide: An Intellectual History of Free Trade" is a great book). In this book (you can see more on this at: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/books.htm) he takes close look at theoretical arguments as well as empirical evidence regarding issues of the day.
On a personal note: in 1994, When Professor Sachs was visiting Nepal, I spent six days with him and his family, and came away completely impressed with his commitment to development and democratic ideals. I came to realize how accusations of being a heartless capitalist (a result of his advocacy of Shock Therapy in transitional economies) was completely baseless; his work then (and even more so now) has been prompted by concern for the average (wo)man, and he has not been hesitant to attack institutions that underpin the global financial system if he believes that they are not doing their job right. For a twenty year old then, this was amazing indeed; in the ensuing years, he has been an inspiration that has led me down the path i have been on.
Bikas
|
| !@0 |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 06:27 PM
Just to let you know that Enron CEO was from Harvard. Bill Gates could not complete his degree from Harvard.
|
| Hutty Tyaou |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 06:27 PM
BDM,
You seem to have problem with everybody. Why don't you think before you give us your facts and informations We don't want to hear it..Stop TaAAlking Too maaachh
Hutty Tyaou Hutty Tyaou
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| 000 |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 06:37 PM
Just to let you know that Enron CEO was from Harvard. Bill Gates could not complete his degree from Harvard
|
| Truth |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 08:27 PM
The reason why HMMM.... hates Harvard, Budhanilkantha and Xavier...
It's simple.......
he got rejected by all three schools...
|
| BDM |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 08:51 PM
Hutti Tyauu, do u ever read newspapers??? Harvard professors give A's like crazy. It was in the Washington Post. I ain't gonna find the fukking article for u, do it yourself.
|
| SR |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 09:40 PM
Hmmmm.....You have raised valid point. Your argument holds much water!
Everyone knows Harvard is among the most reputed learning instituions in the world. This is also fact that, as in the case of others, Harvard is also producing best, better, good, bad, worse and worst! I myself had an opportunity to work with one harvard graduate whom I rank not any better than our TU graduate in terms of intelectual substance (except his ability to play with english words and phrases). So, it is not fair to genralize for good or bad.
As for Kurakani forum, I enjoy reading postings from people with diverse background. I do not see problem with the kinds on postings such as on Prof. Sach or Joe.
I, for one, prefer to consume Kurakani stuff without any "brand". The "brand" thing may be good for consumers in case of commercial goods, but I do not thing it is fair to attach "brand" in intelectual debate or arguments (like the one we often have here). Rather the posting should be able to stand on its own without envoking the legitimacy of a "threatening brand name" like harvard.
SR
------------------------------
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| ashu |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 09:50 PM
Sure, the former CEO of Enron Jeff Skilling is a Harvard MBA.
Does that make ALL Harvard grads khattam?
No.
Then again, Skilling went to Southern Methodist University as an undergrad and worked for McKinsey & Company after HBS. Because of Enron and Skilling, are now, by your logic, ALL SMU grads and McKinsey consultants khattam and
jhoor too?
No.
Bill Gates, by his own admission, was in too much for a hurry to start his
company which has goe on to be a remarkable company.
Is that a bad thing?
No.
A college/university degree can open a lot of doors, but NOT every smart, creative person in America needs it to pursue the kind of success s/he wants for himself/herself.
Sure, there may be this problem of grade-inflation at Harvard.
But so what?
Does that mean that graduate and professional schools, potential employers and so on look ONLY at the transcript and make their decisions?
No.
They also rely, all the more, on in-depth interviews, letters of recommendation, ETS test scores and personal essays/applications and other such measures -- measures in which almost all Harvard (Nepali) grads happen to excel.
As Arnico pointed out, beware of making gross generalizations about Harvard,
or for that matter, about anything based on a few isolated examples.
More than the ego thing, what Harvard, like any other good school, does is give you tremendous intellectual and personal self-confidence to take risks, to walk
the path less travelled by, and even to fail so that you can quickly bounce back from your setbacks, and continue to grow as a person.
And as I have said before, being egotistic doesn't take you far. But being self-confident without being arrogant can take you very, very far. And self-confidence and ego/arrogance are TWO different things -- like apples and oranges.
I, for one, am very happy to note that all Nepali Harvard grads I have had the pleasure of being friends with are remarkably friendly, helpful, approachable Nepalis with tremendous self-confidence about themselves and are passionate about their work, and all seem to want to do something for Nepal in some way in their own ways.
As I have said before, I wish more and more Nepalis would go to Harvard and take full advantage of the resources that university provides for personal, intellectual and professional development.
Finally, I think that because we Nepalis are not used to world-class excellence among fellow-Nepalis, and some of us tend to be suspicious/dismissive of others' achievements, and I think that's really stupid.
There ARE, thank God, many, many Nepalis who are remarkable by any standard, and only in an open forum like this are you going to see more and more of them.
And I think that's a good thing.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 10:13 PM
Oho, yeso GBNC ghumnu paryo bhanera aayeko ta, yetro hangama!! tyo pani, merai karan le po ho ki jasto sanka lagyo...naam nai tokera aarop pani lagya rahechha...kasto namitho, kasto namajja lagyo, aparadhi nai jasto...aba yo gundruk ko fan, bungkot gaun ma janmya paschimeli ko choro (dilli bhurtel ra sanu gaunthali ko hopeful brother-in-law!) lai subtle ego ko aarop? when one writes about things of personal interest in an OPEN forum, of course, one mentions the places one is familiar with (heathrow airport) or people one has dealt with (suntali from chitwan), but i have NEVER in my life INTENDED to brag or claim covertly or overtly about my allegiances to any of my four alma maters in the district of gorkha, kathmandu, london, and cambridge...not that i am insecure about my affiliation to these schools, but most of the time, these references are irrelevant to what i write and how i live as a young man...harvard pani gayeko ho ek samaya, dukha garera chhatrabriti mai padhya ho, padhayeko pani ho, tara "naya musalman dherai masjid janchha" bhanlan bhanera jhan satarka bhayeko, yespali fasya jasto chha...kina ris uthyo mitra haru lai, tyo thaha bhayena...ali ali ego ta chha ni yaar, paschim ko paani piundai janmeko...dukha garerai hurkya ho...kasaile arrogance bhanlan, kasaile ego...aafulai ta self-respect ra confidence jasto laagchha...but as kisun-ji said about his sexual prowess, "ma aafno yogyata ko khandan gardai kina heendu?"
anyway, thanks arnico and ashu for your responses. you've said aptly what i would have said.
On that interesting exchange between Biswo and Bikas, I've also been struck by how meaningless rigid ideological dichotomies are in the realm of policy and ideas. You can agree broadly with the paradigm of the Bretton Woods institutions (liberalise and open up, privatize and let the state retrench, stabilize and discipline your finances), but vehemently disagree with the subtler aspects of management and policy implementation. While the mainstream of the economics profession is pretty much neo-liberal in its outlook, it's interesting how, more often than not, you are NOT preaching to the converted when mainstream economists descend from their ivory towers to lecture over-paid bureaucrats on 18th and 19th Streets in DC. So you have the likes of Bhagwati and Sachs, as Bikas mentioned, who don't endorse the way the Bank and the Fund work...even though the 'theory and the ideas' all of them subscribe to are identical...this doesn't mean that intellectual exchanges are also stalled...Sachs for example was the chief guest speaker at the World Bank's annual conference in dev. economics in 2000. A few months later, in the Meltzer Commission Report to the US Congress, he called for the World Bank's total withdrawal from lending to middle-income countries (who have access to borrowing in the private capital markets), and a call for the IMF to quit the arena of poverty reduction in the entire continent of Africa all together...implication? reform drastically (by even changing the name) or perish...(un)fortunately, no body listened...and then there are the likes of Stiglitz who head a think-unit at the Bank, but trash the IMF...and get fired eventually...sibling rivalry taken to a whole new level...and then all these neo-liberal freaks who Leftists in the Third World see as a homogenous caucus of "all reactionary capitalists under the patronage of the satanic US" are actually some of the best friends allies of the poor in not only the rich countries like the US, but also developing countries...i just lived in the united states for 2 years and quit, but these 2 years were most educational for me in understanding how politics and policies interact...to paraphrase chairman mao, "development is politics, politics is development by other means"...anyway, more rambling on this later...
In the mean time, allow me to return to my favorite theme on this forum: desire!! launa hajur, ghar tira kunai yogya, abibahit kanya haru chhainan bhanya? eklo joban bijog nai bho kya :)
|
| mistry |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 10:16 PM
Finally,
Thing I find amusing is, why do certain graduates from certain schools keep reminding us of their alma maters?
Most of us don't give a hoot which school you go/went to so keep it to yourself. Other than, of course, Harvard. We love to hear from people who went to Harvard, even if you didn't get to hang out with Larry. Harvard folks are helluva smart, they're probably the only intelligent folks aroung the world.
|
| hmmm.... |
Posted
on 08-Apr-02 10:49 PM
>The reason why HMMM.... hates Harvard,
>Budhanilkantha and Xavier...
>
>It's simple.......
> he got rejected by all three schools...
Thanks for thinking so much of me. But as I said I am not a "Mahatwakanchi" person. I did not apply for any of the above schools mentioned, I felt they were out of my league and I have been happy with myself.
I think my 1st posting is very accurate, that (some) Harvard graduates seem to be very earthy in their postings and creations, but that subtle ego is tracable. I have experienced similar things with some of the Budhanilkantha School and Xavier graduates.
It is just my mere observation. I have NOTHING against people who went to Harvard, in fact I admire them for it. I do not like people who just want to sit down and take whatever is forced through their mouth. I had to respond to JB because he seems to be saying we should only talk about the "GREATNESS" of Harvard graduates.
And I think I did not really say HARVARD graduates are low-life scub bags either. I just put my observation on the subtle ego some of them potray through their postings.
Well, if a lot of people have time on their hands, teellai pahad banauna kehi gahro hudaina.
Maybe I have given more opportunity for the Harvardians to DEFEND their EGO by posting this thread.
All I can say is hmmm....
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 12:10 AM
namaste all,
This sure is an interesting thread and I am here with my highly POLITICALLY INCORRECT posting to keep some of you guys up all night, check the board every hour and loose sleep over nothing:-)
First thing: No matter how hard you try to deny, the shcool you went to plays a BIG role in making/moulding/shaping what you are now. Accept this. If somebody goes to Harvard/Yale/Columbia and if he/she makes use of all the resources their fully (discussing with profs. and peers, going to the libraries, making use of other facilities) then, chances are that person will be MUCH better in terms of thinking and dealing with others than someone who went to a school somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
And no matter how good or bad school you go to or went to, you have the rights to be proud of your alma- mater. why not? Things you learn and the things that you don't learn at school(s) play a big role in making you who you are. I definately would have had good writing skills if i had gone to harvard, I would have been good at maths if I had gone to MIT, I would have been a good computer Scientist if I had gone to Caltech/Harvey Mudd. I am not any of these, because I did not go to any of these schools. I ended up in the middle of nowhere, a small community college in (I have even forgotten the state) the US. But, hey I am proud of my alma-mater. I still wear the Shirt that displays the name of my alma-mater, not because I want to show people where I went to, but out of respect to school that made me think. School that gave me the ability to think and discuss issues and value diversity.
So, i agree with arnico and all:
1. People shouldn't generalize
2. Any degree at any good school is earned by hard work, sleepless nights, countless cups of coffees and sometiems PROZAC.
3. People have rights to be proud of and share informations on people that they know personally and who have contributed to their learning experience.
Wait for my posting on my out-of-this-world profs of my alma-matar (that is if they come up with something to contribute to the world and to help most of us understand how certain things work). But I wonder, whether this will ever happen..:-(
hmmmm, i guess this does not make you go hmmmmmmm.
Trailokya
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 12:18 AM
>That Foreign Affairs piece really did not do justice to his argument.
Bikasji:
I guess that is my point. The piece sounded little bit eccentric to come from Prof
Bhagwati. Apart from terming the ideology of protestors 'sterile', The piece
actually lists Columbia University as an example of big corporations ( he cites the
social works done by students/profs of Columbia in Harlem, along with the works
done by Microsoft and IBM in their community). While reading the piece, I was
like , "Is Columbia a multinational corporation?". To tell the truth, I really wanted
to write a letter to editor, but since letter to editor in Foreign Affairs are generally
written by spokesperson of big corps, big time professors and Nobel Laureates etc,
I didn't even try to write one:-)
Ironically, in the end, Professor Bhagwati also cites Mao's famous 'let hundred
flowers bloom'. Any subtle message there? I don't think so, but it struck me then.
And thanks for that link re labour disputes. I will try to read that. It seems finally
someone is trying to make ILO really active in international political arena. (From
some coincidence, Paschimji, another affiliate to big money lender institute and
the pillar of modern capitalism, also cites dear old comrade Mao in his last
comment here!)
Re my comment about being the protestors 'riffraff' legions, it was purely acadamic
standard. I still think that if Bhagwati worked for sometimes in international money
lender institutes, he belongs to my catagory of 'indebted acadamicians'. Not that it
is derogatory, nor do I impeach his disinterestedness and integrity. It is just that
there seems to be this kind of relation between professors and these international
institutes. (Paschimji in his subsequent comment provided some more example!) It
baffles me evenwhen they come up with criticism of these institutes. Because
these professors seem reluctant to speak up their mind in TV 'specially' in protest
season. All I have heard in those protest seasons regarding protestors in American
TV and other mainstream media gives me impression that they are some kind of
hippies, thus that 'riffraff' adjective, some kind of coalition of articulate third world
activists, perennially cynical western groups, feisty special interest groups etc.
etc.The professors , it seems , would speak (whatever they think) only when
sufficiently paid! Frankly, while I am open to all ideas regarding
insulation/globalization, the message of protestors is not percolating down to my
mind.I just don't get what the hell they want. The unionists are repeating the
same mistake that Luddites made, and environmentalists are probably right, but
they are choosing wrong comrades. It sounds to me also that they are only
pushing their narrow agenda.May be the effect of Foreign Affairs is working on
me, I find globalization an effective and proven tool to reduce poverty. It has its
evil, but the focus should be in addressing those evils, rather than scotching
globalization at all. So, I actually concur with prof Bhagwati. However, it is the
article and examples/tone included there little bit shocked me. It also is interesting
to wonder why opponents of those protestors are so 'loud' in media, and the
supporters(that you mentioned) are so 'muted'?
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| NK |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 01:48 AM
A poem by Emily Dickinson (thanks to Sparsha. I lifted this up from another thread)
I'm nobody! Who are you?
Are you nobody, too?
Then there's a pair of us--don't tell!
They'd banish us, you know.
How dreary to be somebody!
How public, like a frog
To tell your name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 03:01 AM
Much madness is divinest sense
To a discerning eye;
Much sense the starkest madness—Emily Dickinson
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| Mitra |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 08:58 AM
I'm happy for all Harvard students/graduates and I read their postings to see what they write, think, do, and what not. I feel some of them are very hard to understand because they use too much vocabulary and very complex sentence structures (I'm not qualified to comment if there is some ego involved). Because of my poor English, I feel like I'm not their audience, but I'm trying and learning. For whatever reason, we always hear about Harvard and not other Ivy League schools. I'd like to hear and learn from them as well. If someone has ego that will remain with him/her, if they have good stuffs to pass on, I will be their guest. Always!
I, for one, went to a school in mid-west (not naming university to hide my identity) and we were number 1 basketball team in division III. Yes, NO scholarship, full time job (guess where), speak/write with accent (but don't THINK with accent – 'from walking in the clouds'), and yet managed to graduate on time. What the heck! This is my achievement and I'm happy.
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| 000 |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 12:59 PM
Do you know that
Sher Bahadur Deuba and Madav Nepal are Hawde Graduate.
Also Bubu Ram and Puspa Kamal are Hahu Grad
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 09-Apr-02 01:48 PM
It is only an overblown ego that is destructive. Some healthy dose can be good. Let those who have worked hard and achieved something in life be proud of themselves. Meanwhile, those who are ordinary have every reason to feel good about themselves. There is good in all of us, so let us just ceclebrate the goodness.
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