| Username |
Post |
| Gokul |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 09:28 AM
I am thankful to both Ashu and Biswo for their discussion.
I am thankful to Ashu for his logical, clear and vigorous advocacy for the need of simple, unpretentious yet to the point writing. I am thankful to Biswo for his strongly held belief, passion and the love and respect for erudition.
This discussion will be more fruitful and friendly (and hence effective) if we refrain from attacking each other in terms of personal likes, dislikes, connections and backgrounds.
The writings of Abhi Subedi, Taranath Sharma, Yadunath Khanal, Durga Prasad Bhandari etc. do not address the need of present day Nepal. They are pundits and they are more interested in preserving their aura of "bidwatta" than writing for the masses and writing for the topics of every man's everyday's concerns. I am not doubting their erudition, what I am doubting is their conviction on the strength of simple writing in logical, public, mundane(?) discussion.
The average Nepali readers benefit a lot by the writings of P Onta, C.K. Lal, A Tiwari, K. Dixit, M. Thapa because not only they bring the contemporary topics but also they write with simplicity, vigor and clear intent. Mocked by the unfamiliar words and humiliated by the strange twists and turns of the scholarly writings, the average Nepali has lost the confidence in his/her ability to understand anything written in English. And who else is more responsible than our showy pundits and professors in reducing the Nepali readership to this all time low?
Sticking to the past is good but carving the past to better suit the needs of future is better. Simplicity is good not only in writing but everywhere. If the new generation of Nepali writers want to be avant garde in this direction, then it is certainly commnedable.
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| NAKUL |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 11:44 AM
"I am thankful to Biswo for his strongly held belief, passion and the love and respect for erudition. This discussion will be more fruitful and friendly (and hence effective) if we refrain from attacking each other in terms of personal likes, dislikes, connections and backgrounds."
I agree with you G ji.Biswo is the one who is bringing his personal issues to this thread from his past interaction with A.His modulation is full of jealousy.I admit that A sometimes pushes the issue too far.But in this case it was very straight forward and logical.May be A's theory of use of big words without any logic- applies to biswo too, otherwise why he has to be so defensive.
Just my thought.
Nakul
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| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 11:52 AM
Thank you Gokul for your thoughts. I enjoyed
reading them.
I am glad that you understand our various
Nepali societies' collective need for vigorous
public debates that, I would argue, should be run
in simple,clear, logical and forceful [English]
language.
If we do that, then, at the very least, we would
WIDEN many other people's access to and
understanding of new/challenging ideas and
thoughts. After all, it is urgent that we break the
monopoly of a few old pundits in our societies and
'democratize' ideas and thoughts in our societies.
Simple, clear and logical language is one proven,
powerful tool to do so soon.
Like I said, getting such a tradition going
IS difficult, but not impossible. The REGULAR
publication of The Kathmandu Post Review of Books
is one small effort at building an institution
that makes a consistent investment on old and new
Nepali writers. More such institutions, started by
others or in collaboration with others, are needed.
And, to get back to my earlier analogy, before we
try to impress others with fancy, rotating furniture,
let us learn how to put together a simple, sturdy
chair, and just take joy in that simple yet reliable
creation.
If we can do that kind of things fine and
good -- consistently, again and again, then our
building fancy, intricate furniture later on will
be all the more inspiring, useful and based on
solid experiences.
But if we do not have the patience or the humility
to learn how to craft such a simple, sturdy chair
in the first place, then our trying to create
fancy, rotating furniture would be like -- to use
a slightly exaggerated metaphor -- trying to run in
the Olympics without having taken the trouble
to walk properly. I have met a great many smart
Nepalis with tremendous potential in writing or
anything else being ultimately destroyed by trying
to do things too fast, with impatience and and
without bothering to master the fundamentals of
their craft.
Even though my specific target of attack in these
writings was Dr. Tara Nath Sharma (and here, I was
talking ONLY about Sharma's essays/writings in
English) and other TNS-wannabes, I could sense that
our fellow-poster Biswo was taking things a little
too personally.
It could well be that what I sensed was/is wrong.
If not, then, let Biswo take things personally.
A public debate on a serious issue such as writing
becomes a lot less vigorous and certainly a lot
less entertaining if it does not get some combative
juices flowing :-) So, I welcome Biswo Poudel's
attacks and thoughts . . . there IS, after all,
room for his kind of thinking too, though I do
openly challenge the efficacy of using big words
when someone (not Biswo, but, say Tara Nath Sharma)
does not have an insight to share!
Then again, as MBB Shah wrote, "santaan thari thari
ka" . . . and, hey, that's life -- in all its hues
and colors.
yours in simple, clear and forceful writing
ashu
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 12:08 PM
Thanks for your comments,Gokulji, Nakulji and Ashu.
For Gokulji:
There is one point where I beg to differ.Nepalese readership of
English is not all time low right now,as I think. I rather think
it otherwise.Anyway, I welcome any posting suggesting Nepalese
readership was numerous in past,and not in present.Otherwise,
I am grateful to your comment.
For Nakulji:
I notice.
I don't believe I have to be jealous of Ashu. We pursue entirely
different paths. We've never seen each other.We are from different
places. I have never vied for anything he is vying. So,please
don't think I am jealous of him.I mean,come on, why should I be
jealous of this man?
Again,I welcome your view.This is the first time somebody said
me jealous,and surely such charge compels people for
introspection.
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| Gokul |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 01:07 PM
I retract my statement : “And who else is more responsible than our showy pundits and professors in reducing the Nepali readership to this all time low? “ Please read it as:
“And who else is more responsible than our showy pundits and professors in intimidating the Nepali readers?”
Thanks Biswo.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 02:07 PM
Thank you very much,Gokulji.
For your comments, and all your refreshing short poems. They were
great.
Whatever I have written,my consistent point is this: use what
ever tool you can,but craft the best thing.Rocket is not made
(total grasp or use )for everybody, nor is "Irises" (Van Gogh).
But let's not decry Van Gogh for using recondite "Expressionism".
Let's not demean anyone who wants to use difficult word,just
because you don't like them.If anyone uses simple words, I never
say he does so because his gamut of vocabulary is small.That just
doesn't sound reasonable.
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| Gokul |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 02:26 PM
Difficult vocabulary is like ghee. It must be used sparingly. If one uses it too much, the writing becomes unhealthy and difficult to digest. And then only the bubbles of flatulence will arise, not the melody of Nightingale.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 02:36 PM
good example.
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| Gokul |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 03:17 PM
Sorry for the personal note:
Biswo, did your mother came to US and then left left for Nepal around June 2000? I met one gentle lady at Bankok airport at that time and if I remember correctly, she was saying one of her sons' name was "Bishwa Poudel". Just curious. Please forgive me if I am wrong.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Feb-01 03:37 PM
Yes,Gokulji.
She left US in June,2000.Since Bangkok was in her itinerary,
you are probably talking about her. But it is amazing that you
remembered my name mentioned so casually.
For convenience, my email address is bpoudel@eng.auburn.edu,
and please send me an email, so that we can know each other
without bothering others in this public forum.
Hope you won't mind.Waiting for your email:
Biswo.
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| Hom Raj Acharya |
Posted
on 21-Feb-01 01:26 AM
It was interesting to observe the discussion among fellow Nepalis.
I agree with Ashu when he says Nepali writers don't have feedback. That does make writing not only difficult but also sometimes incoherent and weak. A lot of touted critics in Nepali language also fall into that trap. Instead of analyzing the content they write about the writer, which is an older school of thought. But that doesn't mean they are "bad writers." They are product of their times.
There is no doubt that Manjushree Thapa (who, in the interests of transparency, I don't know, just as I don't know Ashu or anyone else in this conversation) is a fantastic writer. But this is a mark of privilege--a mark of a wise and commendable use of that privelege, but privelege nonetheless. There is sense of elitism in Ashu's argument, but I really appreciate his writing, and he is a very good writer. Although I get the sense I would have to submit my GRE scores in verbal English to qualify as someone qualified to judge.
It was interesting to note in Ashu's writing that when he mentioned good writers they were basically from younger generation and had the privelege of getting educated in private schools in Kathmandu or abroad, thus can virtually be described as native speakers of English, while the writers he villifies were from older generation and probably didn't have that opportunity. This actually contradicts with the idea of free communication and letting everyone have access to it.
I can't help but wonder who labels what is "smart"? Would my illiterate mother qualify? What about the people I went to school with in my village, sitting on rice sacks because we didn't have benches, who took SLC with me but didn't pass? Or those few who went to my gaunle campus and tried so hard to read "Rocking Horse Winner," the most modern writing we were ever exposed to? Those are the true "average Nepalis," and maybe they use words like "inebriated" some time after great effort. But can they participate in this "open" conversation without fear of being judged? The point here is not only about English writing, but that an attitude of elitism can be very damaging to the idea of communicative action.
We DO need to "invest in nurturing/healing" to promote writing, as well as many aspects of life in Nepal.
Anyway, this is great. Keep the dialogue alive.
Homraj
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| Gokul |
Posted
on 21-Feb-01 08:44 AM
I find Hom Raj's comment contradictory.
You said that those who are in favor of using simple words are the product of private schools and are elitist. I hate those who judge people by their background and upbringing while discussing a topic like this. The judgement should be based on the merits and demerits of what they say, not who they are. And isn't it contradictory that those from private schools are advocating simple language while our gaune (to borrow your term) friends are becoming impatient to show off their word power? Should not it be the opposite? Inferiority complex is as bad as superiority complex. Let us move forward and try not to use our background to justify our arguments.
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| nakul |
Posted
on 21-Feb-01 12:07 PM
I totally agree wih Gokulji.What it has to do with the background?Its idea that matters.May be Homji was looking for right opportunity to express his emotional boyhood sufferings - "I went to school with in my village, sitting on rice sacks because we didn't have benches" and at the same time show his writing ability.What a great story.Like his role model Biswo did earlier.
nakul
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| Hom Raj. |
Posted
on 21-Feb-01 12:22 PM
Nakul-jee!
Actually I didn't suffer. I'm not complaining either. It is interesting how emails can get confrontational, though. Please check out my other posting on reading culture.
Homraj.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 21-Feb-01 02:50 PM
Nakulji:
I find the dichotomy of your arguments a bit unfathomable.
Where as you berated me in earlier thread as bringing issues from
earlier thread:(see your sentence verbatim:)
>>Biswo is the one who is bringing his personal issues to this >>thread from his past interaction with A.
You went to earlier thread yourself to berate me again in your
interaction with Homraj(see this your sentence verbatim):
>>Like his role model Biswo did earlier.
I don't know if I were role model of somebody else,Homji was
pretty straight in cricising me, I rather find the paradoxes in
your observation pretty noteworthy.
I expect a consistent observation from you.
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