| Username |
Post |
| Paschim |
Posted
on 01-May-02 08:56 PM
War and Peace
By Paschim
Following my article on “Politics and Hope” on this board, some friends asked, “so, what would YOU have done now, Paschim ko keta?” Over the years, I have been gradually forming my own ideas on making Nepal better; it's a continuous process but these are peace-time plans, which I will share at an appropriate time. TODAY, Nepal is at war with itself and if I were in Deuba’s seat, this is what I’d have done now. Some hurried points:
1. I would first form a “war cabinet” modeled on Churchill’s. I’d reduce the current number of ministers from 35 plus to around 10. I am aware of their intra-party feud, but Deuba doesn’t have the luxury to cry like a baby “oh, my party isn’t helping me”. It is up to great leaders to rally support around grand causes in crisis. With 6 supporters and inducting 4 from a rival camp who are his potential challengers, like Chakra and Sushil, and Ram Chandra, and also younger blood like Prakashman Singh, I would form a heavy-weight, no nonsense “war cabinet” that has a focus: to crush terrorism in Nepal, restore peace, and spearhead special development projects. Mission period: 1 year. But even during war, life of a nation should go on. All the more important that two things are done at a time like this, i) effective delivery of “civil service”, and ii) facilitation of investigation of past abuses of public office. If done sincerely, both are good for their own sake, but will also restore people's faith in government. I DON’T believe in a national government. That’s undemocratic. The UML should remain HMG’s loyal opposition. But informal consensus with other parties and importantly the king should be a constant theme.
2. I would send my wife and kid on vacation for 2 months. If I had a wife like Deuba’s, I’d make that 4. Or even 8. Sorry, I’m just joking. I actually don’t know Mrs. Deuba to be able to dislike her. You need to maintain your sense of humor even at depressing times!
3. I DON’T believe in FORMAL talks with the Maoists now. Perhaps after 3 months, but first their back has to be broken so cleanly and utterly that it can’t be fixed again. We can’t afford to allow them to resurrect. The top leadership, including Baburam and Prachanda, has to be captured. Peru’s Fujimori, in crushing the Sendero Luminoso, had a two-pronged strategy: devastate the cadres and go for a massive man-hunt of leadership, especially Gonzalo. The leadership-cadre food chain has to be severed at any cost within legal limits. This is no time for pot-bellied political correctness.
4. Terrorists must be captured and tried in special courts; those who engage in armed encounters must be killed. Those killed should be buried decently. A decent burial after death is a human right. We should not forget that even terrorists have human rights in a democracy.
5. After the first wave of major army onslaught, following the first trance of material help from the Indians and the Americans, is over, informal talks can be initiated WHILE the operation goes on. This is fair in war, and there’s a famous precedence: Henry Kissinger was negotiating peace with the Vietnamese in Paris in the early 1970s as and when American bombs were being dropped in North Vietnam in favor of the South. With the substantial help that the Indians are extending now and the sizeable American help that’s forthcoming, I’d concentrate on these two things: i) a massive, massive man-hunt for leadership, and ii) penetration of the inner circle of hard-core cadres. I have a feeling that most people being killed that we hear in the media these days are minor, fringe cadres. The hard core remains hard and ferocious. The intelligence apparatus is in shambles, if non-existent. In addition to the Indians and the Americans, we should also seek more modest help from other countries to inform and train our military of QUICK and SPECIFIC strategies used by, among others, the Israelis in the 70s and 80s, the British against the IRA, the Peruvians in weakening Sendero, even, for example, how they handled that hostage crisis by Tupac Amaru in 1997. We need to know all there is to know about communist terrorists and their tactics. Quickly and usefully. But real strategizing will have to be home-made, Nepali in character, and run by the army in consultation and approval by our own “war cabinet”. This brings me to my sixth point.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 01-May-02 09:08 PM
6. Right now, the army has been given all freedom, and I won’t be surprised if even senior ministers hear of events on Radio Nepal. This is not how things should get done in a democracy. All plans and strategies, and technical details of operations, have to be prepared by the army, but these must be presented to and approved by the “war cabinet”. Deuba should be in command just like Churchill led Britain’s war or just like the Pentagon prepares everything but does nothing prior to Presidential approval. Even in India, civilian control of military affairs is as solid as a rock. Nothing happens there without the approval of Vajpayee, Advani, and Fernandes. The Army Chief should be accountable to the elected PM. There should be no ambiguity whatsoever in this chain of command. If I were in Deuba’s seat today, I’d also summon the current Chief of Army and ask him for 3 good reasons why I should NOT fire him given his record. If I’m not convinced by his arguments, I WILL fire the current chap, and hand over power to the second-in-command.
7. Like in romance, timing is everything in politics too. Just like you can lose a girl of your dreams by saying you “love her” either too early or too late, missions can be derailed in politics if the right decisions can’t be taken at the right time. Winston Churchill became a legendary war-time prime minister, extremely popular, but he lost the 1945 elections to his deputy, Clement Attlee, at the end of the war. And even when he became the PM again in 1951, his term was so miserable that nobody remembers Churchill the peace-time PM anymore. But his legend as the great war-leader lives on.
8. Deuba has an opportunity to make history. Sometimes, given the right advice and the right team, I become hopeful that he might just pull it off. Most of the time though, I preserve a healthy skepticism regarding his ability. He is a very humble and a very sincere man, but not terribly strong. But he is among the better of who we have in active politics today. BP Koirala and Madan Bhandari have long been dead.
These are just my hurried points. Please don’t take them too seriously, but in the interest of a casual debate, feel free to encourage, scold, or insult me. But regardless, let's lend all inputs that we can - moral, material, and intellectual - in this difficult struggle during an uneasy phase of our great country's history.
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| Suman Dhakal |
Posted
on 02-May-02 12:16 AM
And Paschim will say "You can't be fighting here gentelmen. This is the "war cabinet" ". if u know what i mean
Suman Dhakal
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| SR |
Posted
on 02-May-02 01:16 AM
Paschim ji,
Why do not you give a copy of your posting to Baluwatar ka advisors? They can have a great deal of learning from your political, strategic, and intelectual insights.
Yesterday, PM Deuba was on BBC nepali service. BBC's reporter asked mostly friendly questions, but our PM sounded very nervous and, at times, replied irresponsibly. He had a chance to clearify many controversial issues, but he prefered to evade.
PM's interview by BBC at this moment carries a great significance. But he or his advisors do not seem to realize this.
SR
--------------------------
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 02-May-02 01:23 AM
I am goint to fax it to Nepali Congress Central Office, tonight.
Its a good piece they should know. It will be sent as it is.
hGxP
PS: If anyone adds some more comments and if it is convincing
then, I will send the added piece too.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 02-May-02 01:37 AM
SR* ji, namaste!
We are so close but we pretend to be very far.
Looking at the cabinet of Deuba, he does not have
good advisors. He could have made a list of good
advisors, but, the peoples around him do not allow
the good peoples to be closer to him. Because the
circle is afarid of losing the closeness when some good
peoples sorround him.
As told by Paschim, he needs to make this period best
for his rest life and he can remain as adivsor, the way
KPB is now enjoying rest of life in his private room.
He should not think of losing PM, and in this crucial
period, I am sure with informal discussion with UML
peoples he will get success in his missions. Well, UML
peoples will never support Kangressies because it
will hae -ve impact on their vote biz. but, inside
closed room issues, UML are mostly supportive
(because they have hidden benefits, not known
to publics). This should be exploited and get the things
done and leave the scene for another 5 years. When
peoples will be tired of other kangressies, time will ask
his return, but, his continuous MAYA MOHA to the post
will make him less important. Every third point in a curve
makes either peak or valley, similarly, once you pass the
peak, its time to reach the bottom, and similarly, Deuba
should go ahead with this thought, so that when he has
peak out of Maoist issue during emergency, he should
himself think of making a deep valley so that he will be
respected on his next round of return to politics.
Well, I had talked with Deuba for a few minutes (Bhet Ghat) upon the
request of his cadres, I feel he is quite better than Girija (individual level)
and Ram Chandra Poudel, his close rivals.
HG
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 02-May-02 01:40 AM
Corrections:
The following sentance
Well, UML peoples will never support Kangressies because it
will hae -ve impact on their vote biz
should be read as
Well, UML peoples will never support Kangressies IN PUBLIC PLACEs because it
will have -ve impact on their vote biz
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 02-May-02 02:29 AM
Gurudev and SR-ji, thanks for the gesture; it wouldn't hurt I suppose to send a copy to them (also copied to the PM's office). Given the state of Nepali journalism, there's a lot worse they could be reading. My identity need not be disclosed. I am happy just being Paschim.
I have had the opportunity to speak to two of Mr. Deuba's advisors in the past two months: Dr. Prakash Mahat and Dr. Minendra Rijal. I spoke to Dr. Mahat, Deuba's closest aide, in February in Nepal, and with Dr. Rijal at a location in South-East Asia early March. I didn't know them well, and me being just a young boy in his late-20s from nowhere, I appreciated their respectful hearing, but I don't know how much of this has percolated down to Mr. Deuba. Some points require a radical switch in thinking and a preparation, literally, on war-footing (yuddha-star ko tayari bhanchhan ni). Deuba is a nice man, but not strong, constrained with irrational forces that originate from within himself, Morang, Teku, Balkhu, and his Sasurali. Implementation of feasible ideas is indeed an art.
I would have conveyed this to Deuba in person, but my appointment with him that Dr. Mahat encouraged didn't materialize end February because of our travel plans. But Dr. Rijal, who is Deuba's former chief advisor and a friend, has been sent on email what I posted above.
Thank you for your encouragement and let's continue to pour our thoughts.
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| arnico |
Posted
on 06-May-02 12:13 AM
Paschim... have you heard any reply or any indication that your suggestions have been considered?
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 06-May-02 02:14 AM
Arnico, bad timing perhaps. Deuba's team is now on its way to speak with Bush, Powell, and Blair. And he has just appointed his advisors - Mahat and Rijal to the National Planning Commission. These are the two folks who I've shared my ideas with in the immediate past. Dr. Rijal got back to me yesterday to say he's enjoying my humor series! I don't know if and when he'll comment on some of the ideas. They know it, these are not terribly original. And Dr. Mahat is with Deuba on this trip.
I don't want to over-rate the importance of this piece because it was just a hastily drafted menu of morning thoughts that I had the other day which I wanted to share on Sajha.com, but I don't disagree that some points will given them some food for thought if they read it!!
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| Trai |
Posted
on 06-May-02 02:14 AM
Dear Paschim,
Interesting! Your strategies are brilliant, but won’t work in Nepal. Here’s why:
1. 1. War Cabinet: This is beyond the comprehension of our leaders, so they wouldn’t understand the meaning and its importance to the nation and the people, so, war cabinet—small in number—or a jumbo cabinet like we have now, things will remain the same. Furthermore, even if Deuba proposes a war cabinet, and forms one to relive Nepal and Nepali of the nuisance of the PMs and members of the jumbo cabinet, he wouldn’t be getting any support from anyone, not even from his party president, let alone from the UML and others. Nepal’s sheer bad-luck and misfortune, we only have leaders who just want to be in power, hold positions in the government and indulge in money making game (the favorite game of nepali politicians). So, everybody is in hurry to become minister, if not PM. And Chakra, Sushil, Prakashman, I just can’t imagine that someone like you—a brilliant strategist, nepali version of kautilya and Sun Tzu—couldn’t think of other less corrupted names. You dream of a no-nonsense cabinet, but the names itself have started to make no-sense whatsoever to Nepali janata. I would say, if there’s going to be a war-cabinet, then hire people from the academia, or people who know what to do. Professors, MBAs, ex-army strategists (operations), people who have worked in the government in the past (in panchayat era), then we will have a cabinet that can function, that is above party interests and that can, in the long run achieve its goals.
2. No comments
3. This too is a hard task Pashchim. Its not as easy as you have written. This would have been a possibility if the leaders were PHYSICALLY located in Nepal. But they are not. And as long as India provides a safe haven for the Maoist leaders, we won’t be able to do anything. Given India’s reputation in harboring terrorists leaders’ of neighboring countries, I would say, 3 years period sound more realistic. Unless and until the Indian government is willing to help, our army men won’t be able to accomplish any thing because the leaders will be moving up and down in bishal India, making strategies and meeting with other terrorist leaders. The result: more Ak-47 and SLRs, RPGs and Mortars and a thorough lesson on the “art of war”.
4. Paschium jyu, you are a learned man, who has studied Ovid and Homer, Hobbes and Locke, Kissinger and Kaplan but seems like you are yet to read “Nepal adhirajyako sambidhan, 2047”, which is the Constituition of Nepal, 2047. There’s no provision for death penalty in our “democratic” constitution. In Panchayat days, we had the provision of death penalty for people engaged in “rajya biruddhako aparadh/gaath gaadi taken aparadh” (crimes against the nation/crimes against the institution of monarchy). But there’s no provision for death penalty in the new constitution. Either we have to amend the constitution, or just imprision them. Again, to amend constitution, the proposed amendment as to be ratified by 204 mahamurkhas we have in singhadurbar, and these mahamurkhas will look upon Padma Ratna and Daman Nath dhungana, our self proclaimed human rights activisits, who will stay on amaran ansan (you fast until your demands are fulfilled, if not, you are willing to die) and never let the provision of death penalty appear in our constitution. Its this simple.
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| Trai |
Posted
on 06-May-02 02:20 AM
5. Pashchim-jyu, this too isn’t a possibility. When all the top-maoist strategists and leaders are in India and elsewhere, who are we going to arrest/kill by launching a major army offensive in Rolpa, Rukum, Doti, Dipayel? We will end up getting the fuchhes, the thulos will remain safe. Rumors has it that some maoist leaders are in Bhutan, some are in India, now, unless and until India helps Nepal in haunting down these leaders, nothing can be accomplished and the war will go on, and even worse, there’s an open threat of ethnic war emerging in eastern Nepal. Will write about this later, but Nepal has changed a lot in the last 12 years. About Kissinger’s dealings with the Vietnamese, well, many things have been written regarding that, and Kissinger in Paris actually negotiated to get more innocent Vietnamese, Cambodians, lao people killed. So, I don’t think Kissinger’s strategy is acceptable in Nepal’s context [just an off-the-track note: Kissinger actually prolonged the war in Vietnam, so that in the end, he could portray himself and Nixon as heroes, and win the Nobel peace prize. Brilliant strategist that he is, he did it. Won the nobel peace prize for restoring peace in vietnam and for a certain period enjoyed the fame of being the best diplomat the world has ever seen. But, truths are emerging, and Hitchens believes that, if Kissinger really wanted to bring peace in East Asia, then he could have done it way before with less civilian casualties. Anyways, getting back to the discussion: So whom are we going to bomb and for how long? Rumors have it that the army has succeeded in penetrating the maoist organization and have started to take a proactive strategy like the Israeli army, and the recent attack (death toll over 500) is a result of this new strategy. The army has a new strategy now, no more defensive and wait-and-watch strategy, now, they have moved to the next phase of their operation, offensive and aggressive with the aim of total destruction of the party organization.
Intelligence gathering has improved Pashchim. And the army is getting successful in the pshycological warfare. The state-run media, especially NTV has been showing clips of the Maoists, which can turn any staunch supporter of communism into a hard-core capitalist overnight!
And Pashcim, the Maoists aren’t following any revolution as their model. They strike, they destroy, they kill and they disappear. Its more like a primitive war-fare than an organized terrorist ploy. So, its hard to compare their style with any other. And you are right, there has to be a anti-terrorism-strategy with nepali characteristics, to combat this.
6. This, in an ideal world would work, but not in Nepal’s context. Why should our army be subordinate to the government which have people who are corrupt, can’t think above their own vested interests and don’t care about Nepal as long as they keep on enjoying the luxuries of being “lato desh ma gado tanneri”. I would propose that the Army be independent in its operations and be accountable to the general public, not to the congressis. If the congressis start to interfare in the army affairs, and if the army decides to not to fight, then who do you think will go and fight the Maoists? Deuba or jaldo-baldo bir prakashman? Paschimjyu, Nepalis are so sick and tired of democracy and many people have started to look towards the King to do something. And people have started to glamorize the “glorious” panchayat days. You know Paschim, its always easy to deal with one idiot at a time, not 100 idiots. In panchayat days we had 140 idiots, now we have a million or more idiots, and its hard for us to deal with them. OK, I admit, I went off-track again. But to counter the Indian example: Paschim, India has leaders who think in national terms. When it comes down to national security, they all unite. Nepal’s case is different. The army is out there fighting and leaders of the ruling parties and opposition9s) are just issuing statements that are aimed at lessening the morale of the fighting army-men. Some talk about barta, some talk about samidhan samsodhan, some say, well the emergency is unconstitutional and some even invite maoist to be a part of the government. Indian leaders have a strong defensive nationalism, ours don’t. So, the army has to remain independent and be accountable to public. Its sahi nepali sena, not sai congressi-commie-sadhbhawa-sena.
7. I did not understand what you are hinting at. Would you mind corroborating on that statement/example, please.
8. Paschim jyu, vayena. Here I disagree with you. I admire deuba for taking a tough stand against the Maoists (but that was the last option left). And I don’t think he is among the best we have today. Who is/are the best? And, I personally have a hard time admitting that Madan Bhandari and BP Koirala were good leaders. BP failed because he did not have the compromising attitude, Madan Bhandari, well they say, never speak bad of the dead, but still, his strength: he was a good (by good I mean he knew how to tap on people’s sentiments, and all he did was criticze CRITICIZE and criticize the monarchy) orator/public speaker. He did not act/speak responsibly. Don’t you remember his “shripech fukalera aau chunab ladna, ma jitchu’’ to birendra sarkar? Now, what are we to infer from this statement?
Anyways, a well-written piece from a well-read man. I am posting this in the true spirit of kurakani, without being disrespectful or degrading to the anyone reading/participating in the discussion. I might be wrong, and its upto you guys, to correct me.
Trai
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 06-May-02 03:32 AM
Trai, thanks for your comprehensive response. Tara, kasto mihenat garya bhanya?! I respect your comments, but I'll have to blunt some of your stronger arguments, even though this was not meant to be taken this seriously!
1. Deuba can't appoint anyone to the cabinet who's not a member of one of the Houses. So all those wonderful people not in the House can't become ministers. And he's facing all these halla of challenges from the other camp - Sushil, Chakra, etc. So to quell all this, just induct them in this mission. It's hard, but not impossible. He hasn't tried, ego issue you see, and I'm sure he won't ever. But I would have if I were him! As Lyndon Johnson said, I'd rather have my opponents pee from my tent facing outside, than have them pee inside my tent from the outside.
2. No comments on wives and vacation? Fine.
3. It's not easy, but India's posture is changing. They are being more helpful. It's up to us to sustain the momentum. Needs credible, strong leadership. I don't believe India is evil. They can be nudged to help us if we convince them and ask for specific help. We have wasted too much time bitching about India, and not engaging with them in constructive diplomacy. See, Deuba gave it a shot only last month - after 6 years - and results are already coming in. Atal is a nice guy.
4. I was very careful in what I wrote. First, "capture and try them in special courts". How democratic can you be than that? I'm giving terrorists an opportunity for a fair trial. But those who "engage in armed encounters" must be killed in those "armed encounters". And as a democrat, I'm even advocating their right to a decent burial. I have read the 2047 Constitution and am not calling for death penalty.
5. Please see point 3. I'm not saying do what Kissinger did. I'm pointing out to a precedence where you can "talk" at the same time you "kill" each other. This is fair in war. I'm glad about the recent Rolpa onslaught re. intelligence.
6. Agreed, but have you been reading the other thread on "Politics and Hope"? Instead of engaging in helpless mourning, let's start thinking of doing things better. And in a functioning democracy, the army will have to be firmly under civilian control. If not now, soon.
7. I just wanted Deuba to focus on one nation-saving achievement and not worry about a 20-year career with perks and pensions. The choice is up to him. Churchill's example is compelling.
8. I said Deuba was among the "better", not the "best". It'll take me days to elaborate on why I think BP and Madan were good, so won't get into it now. But be assured that my fondness for them is not of the usual kind inspired by perverse loyalties to the parties they represent. I have gone through a lengthy process of informal research on them, and concluded that, on balance, they were good; much better than the rest. Pls. see my similar outpouring on Ganeshman-ji on the "Hope" thread.
Trai, thanks for your enthusiastic response. Why don't you join us on the other thread? I see that you have valuable inputs to offer. It will be good to see you there.
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| Trai |
Posted
on 06-May-02 08:15 PM
Thanks. Well, its just anaupacharik exchange of views, so let’s not take it seriously. This one is the only sane discussion with some credible posters’ insights, so I decided to jump in to share my “dui-ten saye rupiya ko views”. Now, can I counter some of your views? Again, these are my views, not to be taken seriously.
1. Ok, what about this, just dissolve the parliament, and form an interim government, and hire people from outside regardless of their political ideology(-ies). And that’s when Jackson’s statement fits in. And there’s no provision for a war-time government in nepali constitution. Ego is a problem, but if you have to let your ego go and include people who are not your favorites, then why include these chakara likewallahs, since all, except for the king, are not into fair play and go by the constitution, its better to dissolve the parliament, put a temporary ban on the parties and have an interim war-time government headed by Deuba. Then only the government can function and achieve its aims and objectives.
2.No comments on wives and vacation? Fine.
>>Paschim ji, I am in the same situation as you are, so, unless I find a nice, family oriented girl, I don’t think I can comment on this. If you find a girl who has a bahini below 25, let me know, who knows I might get lucky! :-) [and I wish you luck too. Let’s wish each other luck in our common quest. :-)]
3. India isn’t being helpful. And Deuba’s visit did not achieve much. The Indian government has a record of harboring terrorist leaders of the neighboring countries. They were the ones who gave Ram Raja Prasad Singh asylum. In today’s context, if the Indian government wants, then they can send some top Maoist leaders in less than 2 hrs time!!!
Atal is a nice guy, but he follows/makes policies that will prove beneficial to India in the short and long run. Why would he care about Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri-Lanka? However, I agree that we haven’t been engaging in constructive diplomacy with India. HE Bhek Bahadur Thapa ji, I guess its time to put into practice those POLITICAL theory lessons that you learned from Meryll Graw as a graduate student! ;-)
4. I was very careful in what I wrote. First, "capture and try them in special courts". How democratic can you be than that? I'm giving terrorists an opportunity for a fair trial. But those who "engage in armed encounters" must be killed in those "armed encounters". And as a democrat, I'm even advocating their right to a decent burial. I have read the 2047 Constitution and am not calling for death penalty.
>>OK. My mistake. You see Paschim jyu, just this morning I got an email which went on and on and on, on my ability to not being able to understand plain angreji. So, I admit, I must have mis-read your lines.
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| Trai |
Posted
on 06-May-02 08:21 PM
5. Please see point 3. I'm not saying do what Kissinger did. I'm pointing out to a precedence where you can "talk" at the same time you "kill" each other. This is fair in war. I'm glad about the recent Rolpa onslaught re. intelligence.
>>>Talking and killing. Now, I don’t agree with this. If there’s a barta, then there has to be purna yuddha biram. That’s what I think, or else it will have serious negative effects. K garne ahile desh ko paristhiti thik chaina, aaba Nepal adhirajyako sambidhan le sabai dhara nilamban gareko cha. Josh ma ayhera pwakka bolnu agadi 1000 choti sochera –bujhera tathya-sathya yatha-stiti bujegra bolna parcha re..
6.Agreed, but have you been reading the other thread on "Politics and Hope"? Instead of engaging in helpless mourning, let's start thinking of doing things better. And in a functioning democracy, the army will have to be firmly under civilian control. If not now, soon.
>>Pashchim jyu, k garnu purva ma pariyo, internet connection ekdamai slow. Aaba tyo 60-65 janako view load huna 10-15 min, padhera reply garna kati kati ghanta. But I’ll definitely look into it tonight and if there’s anything constructive that I can share with, then I will. Thanks for your invitation.
Now, regarding the army: I think the army has to operate independently like in Pakistan and Turkey. Its about time we implement check-balance system. Congressis ra communistle asadhyai dukha diyeko le, we need a shakti-stambha to count on at adverse situations.
7.Interesting. But Pashchim, from the time of Janga Bahadur, leaders just want to stay in power by the use of saam-daam-danda-bhed. Nobody is different, but I sincerely hope that Deuba will re-write the history.
8. Hetteriika, sorry hai for having made you rewrite the same lines. K garne, seems like the person who sent me email yesterday is right. I did misread your line. But still, I have nothing that will make me think highly of those leaders you mentioned.
Thank you too Paschim. Circumstances permitting, I will definately post messages/views on the other thread as well.
Trai
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| sad nepali |
Posted
on 06-May-02 08:49 PM
Paschim Ji,
Your idea is very good, I wish our leaders of Nepal had some sense. Maybe you could be our good leader someday....
sad nepali
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 07-May-02 10:27 PM
Trai-ji, didn't see any points that I needed to rebut or clarify in your new posting. I saw you disagree with a few points of mine. Sorry couldn't convince you, but I'm not budging either, so let's leave our disagreements at this. On the "war cabinet", I am not advocating an extra-constitutional arrangement. That's why I realistically confined the names to people who are already MPs (don't know if Prakashman has lost his Upper House seat. If he has, one or two, but not a lot at a time, people can always be taken there again to be made a minister). And there's no restriction on reducing the cabinet size to around 10. The name "war cabinet" was just a name and more of a spirit to connote a focused cabinet with a focused mission. It's perfectly permissible under the present constitution. What is not provisioned for is a "national government" which I think is undemocrctic anyway.
Sad Nepali-ji, I share your pain, and thank you for your kind words. I hope to become a "good leader" one day. But my plans are to lead by example in other areas of Nepali society, NOT active politics. I'm still very young. Plans change, so do people. Besides, while I accept a remarkable change-agent, an individual, can do a lot in Nepal, I think we can do better with all our collective efforts in our respective fields. Thanks.
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| Trai |
Posted
on 08-May-02 12:13 AM
dear pashchimjyu,
politics, women and wine, are three things in which its hard to change the other person's views. All are acquired tastes--acquired through our own experience, knowledge and circumstances. So, let's agree to disagree on issues. healthy disagreement is alwyas a great learning experience.
But still, i have some questions (knowing that we will be disagreeing, but it doesn't harm to hear what you think, and you can answer me at your convenience, no rush):
1. why will teh national government be undemocratic? and what's your definition of national governmnet?
2. can't deuba dissolve the parliament, or at least suspend it as long as the state of emergency is imposed?
3. you say, India has been changing its policy towards nepal. I say, no. If I were to velieve in what you belive that deba's meeting was a huge success, then why doesn't india hand over some of the maoist leaders that are in India? who is to be blamed for this, our governmnet, or is it india's dukha-dine nature?
Anyway, nothing's in life has to be taken seriously. Jagatam mithyam!
trai
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 09-May-02 05:28 AM
Trai-ji, just a quick response to your 3 queries.
1. My definition of a national government is a cabinet with membership of all national parties. I believe in differentiation of power among the executive, legislature, and the judiciary, and also within each of them in the form of oversight mechanisms. An opposition that has no conflict of interest in the executive is necessary in the legislature. A national government doesn't allow this, hence it is undemocratic.
2. A "parliamentary democracy", by definition, cannot do without a parliament. Dissolving a parliament is dissolving democracy. No body, including Deuba, has that mandate. He can dissolve, of course, but has to call for fresh elections to form a new parliament immediately. State of emergency and a living parliament are not in conflict. In fact I am pleased at the way parliamentary committees like the Lekha Samiti and the Rajya Byebastha Samiti are monitoring activities and alleged abuses during Emergency with diligence. Folks like Nemwang and Thani deserve kudos.
3. India is an ocean of 1 billion people. It is very hard to track and locate movement of people there. They are also a resource-starved, ill-equipped country with huge problems, including a half-a-dozen or so insurgencies of their own, from PWG in Andhra to the Bodos in Assam, the Nagas, the Naxalites, and of course the painful Kashmir. Hasn't been long since they quelled things in the Punjab. I don't believe our Maoists are being sheltered officially, but Maoists are bargaining for a softer glance from authorities there. Interestingly they recently said, "to defeat imperialism, one has to overlook expansionism". They have stopped criticizing the Indians overtly knowing Indian territory is most necessary for attacks against us. Plain inconsistency and opportunism. But yes, India can of course do a lot, lot more. And I see that following Deuba's and Girija's visit last month, they have been nudged into visible action. They can still do much more, and we should do our homework better to help them help us. I don't believe in the theory of grand designs and traps. But I agree their posture has varied from being a bully to being insensitive in the past. I nonetheless put primary blame for not getting the most of our bilateral relationship on us. Never been a believer in exclusively external origins of sins.
La pugyo, yaar. Kati lekhne?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-May-02 08:51 PM
>>Paschim ji, I am in the same situation as you are, so, unless I find a nice, family >oriented girl, I don’t think I can comment on this. If you find a girl who has a
>bahini below 25, let me know, who knows I might get lucky! :-) [and I wish you
>luck too. Let’s wish each other luck in our common quest. :-)]
Paschimji: tyo <25 maiyaa ko photo ma tira pani circulate garnus hai.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 09-May-02 09:19 PM
Biswo ji,
Bichma nai chhadke hanne bichar ki kaso ho. Paschim ji,
pahile confirm garnus Biswo ji sadhi-sudha ki single bhani,
ani ball photo pathaunus hai, baru ma kaha chahi dhanda
namani pathaye huncha. Ma ta guru ji bhako le, tysto
chhadke hanne wala chai chhaina, baru hernus merai
organization ko sangai kaam garne keti lai jabar jasti
kiss khaye chha morale, hijoko patrika ma SEXUAL
HERESSEMENT bhani organization le confirm gari
pura halla balla ni. Tyasaile ABUSE ko kalanka nalagne
bhayema matra malai pathaunus hai, I mean with
permission, otherwise, ma ta aajkal KT bhane shi bhagchu
bhagchu, kya dar lagcha ba sab herda salakka, ani
kura ma thikka, ke bolne ke bolna nahune bhani padhiyena
tyao public school ma, tyasaile ma lai ta last ma decide bhe
pachi pathaidiye huncha just an information. Ma ta aajkal
KT bata ali tadhai basnu ramro hola jasto lagcha, natra
ta jagir pani jana sakcha (hamlai ta mathi bata circular aako
chha, KT / women office room chhirema dhoka kholi
rakhnu re, so that KT/Women can feel secured hoki, malai
ta tyo idea KT/Lai bhanda afu nai safe hune jasto lagcha,
kinaki tyo disclosure ma bichara Mc.doglous le kati dukha
payo, dhoka kholera narakhna le. Uta bhare
srimati ji le ali ali baki tauko ko rau pani satta ukhele ma ke garnu
ni ghar ko no ghat ko hoiyela. Biswo ji, unauthorised
intrusion is dangerous to you, specially, if you are married.
La aru pachi.
HG
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 09-May-02 09:25 PM
correction:
The sentance that starts with following part ofin my earlier posting:
baru hernus merai organization ko .....
should be corrected as:
baru hernus merai organization ko ek jana marda le, u sangai kaam garne keti lai jabar jasti kiss khaye chha morale.
you may add following comments too.
Kasto paji rahicha. Beijjat garyo organization ko mero job ko orientation ma mero big boss le kasto khusi bha thiyo to say WE have zero record of SEXUAL HARRASEMENT bhanera. Aba khattam.
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| BalBhadra |
Posted
on 09-May-02 09:25 PM
I don't necessarily agree on all that you have said here but I totally disagree on Pashim's comment on India. I do not know if you have followed Indian foreign policy towards its neighbours, but as far I can remember, India has never been helpful in their hearts. Even when genuine good Indian politicians have tried to bridge gaps and do good to us, Indian beauracracy has stepped up thwarted all efforts on both sides.
From Tanakpur to Mahakali and Kalpani. Our trade emargo in the 80's to our recent quotas on trade of a few items. Show me the goodwill India has showed us and I will believe you Pashim that India really wants to do good to us.
And what is most riduculous as you also mentioned is the fact that India giving us training and tips on insurgency which it hasn't been able to contain for I don't know how many years.
I for now believe like couple of others on this forum that there is no way out unless we quell this insurgency. The people with guns have already intoxicated themselves with power and they will go on until they achieve whatever ( which they themselves have no idea). We have to send our agents and drag those leaders from India and try them in court.
I wish the best of luck for our security personel. It really pains me to see them loose their lives for our crapy politicians fighting against an even greater loosers.
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| Brook |
Posted
on 10-May-02 12:09 AM
"I nonetheless put primary blame for not getting the most of our bilateral relationship on us." - Paschim.
I strongly support this point of view.
And Balbhadra, of course India is going to bully us, rape us and milk us for all we are worth, covertly, to the absolute brink of where the pretext of "friendship" can be preserved. And as much as it pains me to read about some these glaring instances you have listed, like Paschim, I view these as our own inability to hold our grounds. Who're the culprits?
a. Popular anti-India sentiment: If any prudent leader gives as much as a tiny concession to India today, in order to forward grander designs of national benefit tomorrow, he'll be flakked so severely and thorougly for kissing New Delhi ass that he'll gladly drop the whole idea. And can there be anything more idiotic than that whole Hritik Roshan episode?
b. Overblown national ego, jingoism: Kudos to 30 years of Panchayat and the curriculum it promulgated, most of our generation still believes in Bhupi Sherchan's (was it him who wrote Jangi Nishan?):
"yo janmandai jagat-ma, kaiyon prahaara aaye.
saamrajya dui haare, haarena shaan hamro."
Yes, nationalism is great and all that, but let's not be blinded?
c. Quality of representatives/negotiators etc.: Be it Geneva, Bangkok or our very own New Delhi, apart from a handful of specialists, delegations sent abroad for "baartas" and "baithaks" largely comprise of apathetic blokes from respective ministries. Little surprise then, the principal content of the briefcases of most of these Neanderthals will almost invariably be their wives' shopping list.
Lessons to learn?
Matters of the heart (prejudice, emotions, et al) have no place in business and diplomacy- they need to be kept out of boardrooms and negotiation tables. Noone is your "friend" in there because what both parties are interested in is pushing forward their own interests and agendas, and unfortunately, in most bilateral relationships, one comes at the cost of the other. What's needed is the instinct and attitude of a calculating predator - dodge when you have to, pounce when you can. In other words, don't hesistate to kiss ass when you have to and don't harbor moral qualms about screwing the other over when you get the opportunity.
Specifically in terms of the relationship between India and Nepal, let's smell the coffee- India IS bigger, better, and stronger. And oh, if our own leaders are not vocal enough to pitch our interests to the international community, I say, let the Indians do the job! At least the world listens when they speak. And who knows, when the dollar starts flowing into the region maybe some of it will make it to Rupandehi! (along with the Khurdalotan reflux)
A little off the topic but elucidatory nonetheless - There are no free lunches in Wall Street. (or anywhere else for that matter)
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| BalBhadra |
Posted
on 10-May-02 01:22 AM
As much as I would like to agree with you, I cannot. Not for the fact that the things you have mentioned is not correct but they are of little consequence to Nepalese side. Dont' think I have blind faith in my nationalism, at least I feel I dont'. And in my posting I did not talk about our inabitlity to get the maximum benefit out of India. My only point was India would not and will not let us be so. Ask everybody whos worked with Indian side. Example I mentioned is the recent trade quota put on some export items which you may already be aware of.
The fact remains that India is bigger than us, on top of that we have them on all but one side which makes our bargaining ability much more difficult. They very well know that. All of us would also agree that India is a super power, or is it what it likes to call itself? So, why all the insecurity from such a small country. If Nepal would develop to better standards I do not know which country would benefit the most, after Nepal.
And last but not the least Brook, please do not wait for the dollar to seep into Nepal. It barely reach quarter of the way into India.
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| Brook |
Posted
on 10-May-02 04:00 AM
Dear BalBhadra:
Your last point is very well taken although it was in response to intended sarcasm on my part.
We both seem to agree on the fact that India is not going to give us the time of the day as far as numerous bilateral issues are concerned. But isn't that obvious? I mean, are we fools enough to EXPECT any preferential treatment from India? I pray not. Furthermore, I think you are putting a little too much weight on the 1950 Treaty of Peace and Friendship when you say: What could the big, strong India possibly lose by allowing in a few extra tonnes of acrylic yarn or zinc from a poor, inconsequential neighbor? And tell me, doesn't this sound like begging to you?
Why do the Republicans fight tooth and nail for tax-cuts? Is it because they fear Welfare Johnny is going to threaten their empires with his EITC checks someday? No. It's ideology. It's the real world. And wish as much as we may, altruism is in short supply in today's world. So, it is not just wishful thinking, but naive to bank your future hopes on somebody else's generosity.
That said, I will stand by what I said in my previous post. You may think those issues are of "little consequence to the Nepalese side," but I believe otherwise. Given Nepal's size with respect to India, its regional geo-political influence and various other factors that undermine and detract from its bargaining power vis-a-vis India, I see professional and expedient executions at the bargaining table as means of re-gaining lost grounds. On the whole, it might not be easy to squeeze a whole lot out of India, but the least we can do is do our homeworks well. Let's approach the issue dispassionately, perform our own due diligence meticulously and at the "baarta", engage in INFORMED discussions with our counterparts. Let's have facts at hand to back up our cases, specialists' opinion (or presence) to add weight to our causes, let's argue, let's fight (of course, in a way that behooves diplomats). In short, let's compesate with professionalism what we lack in bargaining power.
And finally Balbhadra, the three points I talked about in the previous thread, in my opionion, are EXTREMELY important because they are impediments to objectivity, expediency and professionalism.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-May-02 08:24 AM
>pahile confirm garnus Biswo ji sadhi-sudha ki single bhani,
Guruji, Biswaas maa chalnu paryo ni. Tapaailaai Kasaile wrong information diyo
jasto chha mero (a)baibaahik jiwan ko baarema.
Kuroke bhane, sansaar ghumeko paschimjile pakkaa badhi baalikaaharoo dekheko
hunuparchha bhanera sochdaithiye ki suddenly maile garna khojeko rikwest
(request) Trailokyajile garera khel ko paashaa jhandai paltaaidiyakaa! So, I had to
jump the bandwagon.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 10-May-02 09:35 AM
As peoples say: Sali Kasko vena ko. (Feminist ji haru,
yo ta prover ho. Vena bahadur chha bhane ke garne
ta Udauchha Sali, tara aaj kal ta Sali Udauda didi hunche
aruko gharwali ... Divorce is there. ). tyasaile, Paschim ji
ko Sali kasale udaune bhanne kura ko nirnaya ta Paschim
ji le Sali ji lai counseling garera TA ki BP jun better huncha
usai lai recommend garne hola ni ta. TA ra Biswo ji
ma kosal ramro sanga Chinese Food banauna janeko chha
usai sanga jau bhanne mero ek sallaha chha hai Paschim ji
ko hune wala Sali ji lai (in case he has unbooked Sali).
Chinese Food ko prasanga lyaunu ko karan TA and BP both
were in China, and Chinese food are Deli.. bhako le, P ko
Sali ji le mej mari mari Chinese Dishes khan paune bhako
le ni. Paschim ji, yi dui ma euta lai Sali bhedauna sakema
LLCCMG, mitho mitho Chinese dishes Sadhu bhai le banako
khanu, hami lai pani kahile kahi life diyera laijanu ni, hou.
Hamle ryal chuhauda tapai ko pet nadukhos hai.
Good Luck guys.
HG
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-May-02 10:14 AM
Guruji:
Haina Tapaai Kasto TA ko Agent Jasto Kuro Gareko. TA is expert cook, Malaai ta
Dumpling pani banaauna raamrari aaudaina. Yo ta sidhai competition maa haraaune
criterion bhayo.
Anyway, pahilaa paschimko response herau,photo herau, parechha bhane
extensive kors(course) linu parlaa. Ke garne, jindagi dherai competitive chha. So
many people get dumped everyday.. Teti chinese food banaayera dump avoid
garna sakinchha bhane .
So, new motto: learn to make dumpling to avoid getting dumped..
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 11-May-02 10:00 AM
Gurudev, chhori paune kahile kahile bhoto siune ahile bhanya jasto bhayo yo. Pahila malai ta jwain banna dinus yaar, ani choose garaunla suhaundo sadhubhai. But coming from Chitwan, Biswo has a home-turf advantage. But Biswo, tyo "baalika" sabda aapatti-janak bhayo. Taruni bhannus na!
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-May-02 05:16 PM
oops, tyo BR Choprako 'Mahabharat' hereko effect ho. Even to 'yauwanmasta'
girls, Rishimuni used to address as 'baalika' or 'baalike' in that serial.
Btw, thanks for giving me preferential treatment. tapaaiko shighra sakses (success) ko kaamana gardai ahile laai yettinai. Ani o guruji, next time Japan baata
criteria nirdhaaran nagarnu holaa, especially tyo cooking criteria..essay competition, billet-doux competition, khukurako maasu banaaune competition etc
bhaneta sahya chha tara Chinese food banaaune competition bhannu ta sidhai
andho (ma) ra langado(TA) lai sangai 'gaagrophor' competition maa raakhejasto ho.
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