| Username |
Post |
| patel singh |
Posted
on 19-May-02 10:16 PM
why do nepalis hate india and indians so much?
what did we did/do to you nepali people to make you hate us soo much?
we are your closest neigbour and a friend . why do we still have the hate going on?
me my self being a indian have to admit that yes we might have made mistkes, or did something that we both sides dont agree on but thats govt job, (its polotics).
politics makes even family enemys.
we the general indian public like nepalis as i have lots of nepali friends . we indians and nepalis have common goals such as education for all, improve our peoples standard of living of our people etc, common problems such as poverty, illetracy and so on. but we also share same cultural values such as religion, food, language , etc. when your primenister came to india we gave him a red carpet welcome, we gave him military asiistance that he and the govt of nepal had asked for, and we are assisting nepal in any way we can, we will send our military army to nepal if you guys ask for ,we will do anything for your guys and we all indians wish for nepals and nepalis good health, prospiraty, and e want al our neai neighbours to succeed and we india and indians will stand up with nepal shoulder to shoulder with nepal to help you guys and your country of nepal during difficult times and help nepal to succeed and we want to see that.
but even though we arbing sincere and helpful to you you guys regard us as your enemys, bad people, etc.
when i went to my nepali friends house one of his friend said to me "ko ho yo dhoti"? and i understood what he said because there isnt much difference betwen nepali and hindi and that really gave me pain in the bottom of my heart and from that day on that gave me an impression that nepalis dont like indians for some reason. and why nepalis dont like india and indians , i have no clue uptill now.
so i have came here to get differen peoples opinion on why we are hated by nepalis so much.we are humans and we must understand each others and exrss our opinions openly.so friends i just want to find out how we can build love, friendship, trust between indians and nepalis.
thank you for taking your valuable timeon reading my piece and hope to get your opinion on this matter.
god bless inidians and nepalis
thank you
patel singh
|
| Trai |
Posted
on 19-May-02 11:05 PM
Three things make nepalese hate indians:
1. 1950's unequal treaty
2. India playing "big-brother" role in the sub-continent
3. India's unwillingness to respect the Nepali independence.
I would love to elaborate on these three points but I am running late for work.
Will do it sometimes later.
|
| Thapa Ji |
Posted
on 20-May-02 01:04 AM
Dear Mr. Patel,
There are people that hate Indians in Nepal and there are Nepalese that hate Nepalese. In Nepal there are people that hate other cast or look down on them. What I am trying to say is some Nepalese discriminate pretty much everyone. This makes them a classic racists, right? I think so.
Please do not think that all Nepalese think the same way. Many Nepaleese understand the close cultural ties between India and Nepal and have respect for India.
|
| another |
Posted
on 20-May-02 03:15 AM
patel thanx for your good feeling toward nepal and nepaleses. well, it's really difficult to say why nepalese people have cold nature toward indian. but it's not everyone who don't like indian.
well, it's all about politics of india, from my point of view, many be u don't know what's goin on in nepal, in any agreement in between india and nepal, people of nepal is not satisfied with any agreement. any agreement that is in between india and nepal about rivers and other things, is only between politican of india and of nepal who are biased to india. we nepalese think that goverment of india is conspring against nepal and are slowly taking our resourses. that's why i don't like goverment of nepal and i don't think any nepalese like too. have you ever gone to tanakpur, which is near delhi and which is border of nepal, there is one big river called mahakali river which is flowing into nepal and all the water are redirect to india from nepal and our land is depraved to water for farming, when i first see that, i thought shit about india, why they are doing this thing, why they are using our resourses, and another, there was another agreement between india and nepal about the electricity that was produced in nepal and was selling to india, the biased congress gave those electricity in lease to india which was far low, that' was the most discusting thing that i have ever heard about india and nepal agreement and there's so many thing like that , you know,
it's all is conspring nature of indian politics toward small beautiful country. india looks friendly to us but we dont' think they are friendly (i am talking about politics). they are just conspring something agaist us,
we know they want electricty, and whole electricity is produced in nepal, so india is always doing something that only benefits them, better say, they want everything for free.
about any indian people, politics is the only reason i think so, and in nepal there are some many indians who did fraud in nepal and earn money flew away to india, there's so many things,that make us hate indians. there are so many indians who came in nepal and did wrong thing and create bad impression to nepalese.
well, these are all i know now , but there's so many thing about india that make us dislike them, but don't panic about that, everybody dont' do that, you know,
i feel good about indians, they are really helpful ,
when i came to US, they are the one who helped me in adjusting university and now i am staying with some indians. they are good,
but friend, the politics of india toward nepal and the some fraud indians who came to nepal are really making hate all indan bad. hope you understand whay i am writing.
|
| Gorkhey |
Posted
on 20-May-02 07:15 AM
Yes, some of the points which are mentioned here, that makes Nepalese dislike Indians.
On other hand, most of the Nepalese who comes to foreign countries are helped by Indians. Off course there are a lot of nice Indians who has heart and helped people who comes aboard and has nothing, knows no one from our country.
If you check any Indian Restaurant, Indian shopping center or whatever in the foreign countries you will see a lot of the staffs are from Nepal.
Even though most of them have not got visa to stay or proper documents but those nice Indian owners have given them job.
I have to say that is the great help. I have respect for them.
I never work for Indians but I know and I have seen a lot of our brothers are helped by the Indians who are hated by us. I have heard how they say " Wo aadmi hamara aadmi hai, Nepal se aaya hai, ushko kaam de do.... ". I think he was giving reference.
When you are aboard then only you will know how good they are to you.
When our brothers won't have anything he works for them, later when he gets his documents then start working in other place and starts complaining that " that dhoti, did not pay me well, that's why I left that job" For God shake and for the shake of other Nepalese why he forgets his DEEDS.
Instead of respecting Indians for taking risk to save his a**, starts complaining after everything is sorted.
Yes, I used to dislike them when I was in Nepal because of all those politics but since I came aboard I have a great respect for them for saving our Nepalese brothers' a**.
|
| amish |
Posted
on 20-May-02 07:27 AM
It's not only that Nepalis hate and discriminate Indians but Indians also do that to Nepalis. Apart from the fact that not every Nepali hates Indians, just like not every Indian will hate and discriminate Nepalis it is indeed a bad thing to hate each others when we have so much in common. India being a big bully in the poor region and Nepal's unfavourable trade and resources treaties with India have certainly something to do with the increased hatred from Nepalis towards Indians. For no obvious reasons i m also one of those Nepalis who hates Indians but when i read and see that nepalis abroad arre always helped by Indians then that amazes me more. Perphaps the ubiquitious presence of Indians has lead Nepalis and others to hate Indians. We shuld live as good neighbours tho without hating each others.
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| patel singh |
Posted
on 20-May-02 08:24 AM
Again brothers and sisters i agree with your opinions and i am not going to say whether they are right or wrong because we all have different opinions and that the reason what makes us so unique in our own way.
but as some friends here said about the 1950's treaty, you are righ. According to my understanding it was an treaty signed between the govt of nepal and india . some of you have said it favours india more , then why doesnt the govt of nepal come forward and say so or raise the issue on the indian/internatinl media or to the govt of indial. i am sure india as nepals best friend will listen to your concerns and we aill solve this century old problem.
But why is the govt of nepal so quite on this issue?? if you have something to say , you have to speak up and then we will be able to solve the problem.
i really appreciate some of the nepali brothers here reconizing the help that indians give to nepalis in foreign countries. we help nepalis because they are like our own brothers and sisters. we take risk for them as one of the brother stated. but still we are hated by nepalis, thats the point that gets me down to my knee.
so friends we cant let politics be an excuse for hating each other and we must have good relationship between our people in order for us to move on .
politics will always be the same. its the game of power. in polotics even family become enemys. so with putting politics aside we indians and nepalis need to think for our future generations and for our selves need to build friendship and move on with love, dignity,respect, and kindneddfor and toward each others.
thank you very much
long line india and nepal and the people of tese countries
your indian neighbour
patel singh
|
| Hercules |
Posted
on 20-May-02 10:30 AM
Very good discussion that Patel has started.
Mr. Patel, let me tell you one thing that our Nepali Government and Nepal is lot smaller than India. 1950 treaty is unfair, everybody knows that and our Government of Nepal have and is still trying to make changes to it. India don't listen to it.
Sometime Indian Govt. pretends that they're trying to help us gives 1 penny and takes $100 and stupid Nepali leaders doesn't even understand.
For example they made a Koshi barage in Koshi River. Absolutely Indian Govt. very helpful came to Nepal constructed Koshi dam. The dam is in Nepal's land but control of Gate is in Indian's hand. The result of this dam I think everybody knows. In dry season, the Gate is full open. The farm land of Nepal has not drop of water but the water in canal in Indian side farm land is flowing very well.
In the monsoon season, they they open the door very little or may be closed depending upon the water level to protect Indian land from flood. BUT the Nepali villages are washed away.
Definetely, Indian helps to give work for Nepali new comers in US. There are few things that they get by helping Nepali people.
First is almost free labor. They pay less than minimum pay, deduct all kinds of money saying "this is for tax", " This is for something" wherever possible.
Second Nepali people are very honest. Almost every Indian knows of honesty because of Bahadurs in India.
Third they know that these cheap or almost free labor will not go anywhere for another atleast 3 to 4 years. The third bullet is applicable to not only to Nepali but also for Indian new comers.
Fourth, Nepali knows and understands Hindi very well.
Indians businessman will do these illegal things hiring people without paper works anyway whether it's Nepali, Indian or Mexican. So there's nothing to appreciate on that. It's just mutual benefit in business.
Some other points why Nepali hates Indian Govt.
- If Nepal dears to say anything against India, they blackmail us that they'll close the multiple routes (checkpoints) to Nepal. Price hike to Calcutta port, all kinds of dukh dine kaam.
- India doesn't want us to import products from other country and compete with Indian products. They want Nepal market full of Indian products.
Does anybody remember how a Hongkong or Bangkok jeans and other stuff used to cost and how much it costs now.
- We said fine we'll let your product flow to Nepal market, but can we export nepali stuff to Indian market too? India initially thought there's not much they can export or something. Therefore in 1996 treaty they allowed us to export. BUT guess soon they got pressure from Indian businessman to stop doing that. Example is Vegetable oil.
- Do you know what happened to Multimillion dollar company Kodak had to face because of Indian Govt.'s chutiapan. Even the Indian Kodak owned 80% of stake. We have to scrap that business after building completion. Indian Govt. didn't even listen to Pres. Clinton.
But all of you are right, this is politics, Govt. to Govt. but it's not people to people.
Mr. Patel when some Nepali hates and says it's dhoti, he's not telling to indian people but to Indian Govt.
Enough for today.
Hercules
|
| Trai |
Posted
on 20-May-02 01:09 PM
"....but as some friends here said about the 1950's treaty, you are righ. According to my understanding it was an treaty signed between the govt of nepal and india . some of you have said it favours india more , then why doesnt the govt of nepal come forward and say so or raise the issue on the indian/internatinl media or to the govt of indial. i am sure india as nepals best friend will listen to your concerns and we aill solve this century old problem.
But why is the govt of nepal so quite on this issue?? if you have something to say , you have to speak up and then we will be able to solve the problem"
>>>>>>
Patel Singhji, His Majesty’s Government of Nepal has always demanded, requested and asked the GOI (Government of India) to revise the 1950’s treaty. And everytime we demand change, revision and modification, the Indian govt. threatens us of economic embargo. Believe it or not, this is what ahs been happening for the last 45 years. I can go on and on giving you examples of Nepal’s experience with your country, but there are certain things that bar me from doing so (the internet cost is very high in NepalJ ). We have raised this issue many times and you are more than welcome to go to Pararastra Mantralala (ministry of foreign affairs) and the National Archives and check the facts. [you’ll get to read all those de-classified documents archived there]. Hercules here has already written on the "problems", let me just summerize his points:
1.Indian startegy is to make nepal dependant on her forever. Otherwise they would have let us make use of the Bangaldesh's offer to use the fulbari route.
2. India sees nepal as a dumping site fo its junk products. that's why, since 1970's India has been demanding that Nepal control its import from other countries. Just because that they can sell their kaam-nalagne samans to us.
The Indian govt. has to change its attitude towards Nepal and be willing to revise the 1950’s treaty. We demand negotiations, treaties and agreements on equal terms, but the Indian government has (from Jawaharlal Nehru to Atal Bihari Vajpayee) never respected the Nepali sentiment. Fine, you guys have your strong defensive nationalism but we have our pride as an INDEPENDENT country. India has to understand this too. The day India understands the Nepali sentimet and pride (you can say nepali nationalism) then, hopefully, things will be different. Until then, you will be dhotis and nothing more to us, and we will be bahadurs and nothing more to you. Its this simple, my friend.
Trai
|
| chaar sau bis |
Posted
on 20-May-02 01:30 PM
it's a love-hate relationship, for sure. my short answer is EXPLOITATION, pure and simple. and what's this, we "might" have made mistakes? "you nepali people"? wake UP!!!!
do nepalis spend nrs. openly in india and flood your country with large denomination counterfeit nepali rupees?
are key indian politicians in the back pocket of nepali powerbrokers?
do nepalis enslave indian girls and force them to be put through the brutal gang-rape meatgrinder of government-sanctioned prostitution?
does nepal buy indian staple foodstuffs, adulterate them, and sell them back to indians at significant mark-up?
do nepalis fight their "internal" battles by putting indians on the front lines (a la kargil)?
does hmg station armed nepali military units on sovereign indian soil and unilaterally move border markers overnight deeper into indian territory?
do nepalis go around the world marketing their culture by claiming gandhi was born in nepal?
do nepali films always portray indians as violent, knife-wielding gangsters?
does nepal have a shiva sena equivalent that goes door-to-door in dilli soliciting donations?
has nepal ever unilaterally shut its border with india just because india did something that displeased singha durbar?
has nepal ever facilitated ethnic cleansing by helping the aggressors dump their victims in india via nepal?
does nepal seek to exploit india's water resources with little or no benefit to india?
is kollywood-driven nepali pop culture crowding out indigenous indian culture?
did india ever contain huge sections of nepal, such as tehri garwal?
does nepal project a regional superiority complex alongside an international inferiority complex?
does nepal hinder the free transit of indian goods and services to the rest of the world?
do nepalis who move to india refuse to speak hindi/english/local dialect in public?
do nepali entrepreneurs--especially restauranteurs--treat their indian employees like slaves?
is the indian rupee's value pegged to the nepali rupee?
do nepalis give serious consideration to making all of india into just another bunch of anchaals?
do nepalis take action against anti-india activites committed by third-country nationals on nepali soil?
"we'll do anything for your guys" OH YEAH??!!! BULL! with friends like india, who needs enemies?
does india have to maintain neutrality just to stay on the map?
is hindi infested with nepali slang and terms like "chaar saya bis" and "chiya"?
if the chapaal were on the other foot, would indians be justified for disliking nepalis?
if indians cannot treat one another with decency, what makes anyone think that they will treat their neighbors much better?
|
| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 20-May-02 01:34 PM
Let me share my experience on this issue.
First of all, I presummed and also our history tells, our root of family originated from southern part of India. Technically, we see more our caste people in indian than in Nepal. We are actually say pure "Newar" cast in Nepal. Secondly, we have been long relationship with India and even with families relationship with Indian. For example, my own brother has gotten married with Indian girl. Not only this, many my cousins had Indian wifes or Indian relationship. Even all these evidence and relationship, we are still reluctant to say we are Indian or we don't like to be called Indian or origin. I even don't know, why? Even our parents were also didnot like to say they were from India.
I have some experience with Indian people, let me explain here. First point, whoever I meet with any Indian person, most of them I have found - Attitude Problem. Second point is, whomever I talk with any Indian people, they never try to be nice with me EVEN I didnot say a word or even speak with them. As soon as I say I am Nepali, they treat me in different way. But, of course, some were nice, mostly young generation than old generation. I aften travel India frequently i.e. mostly at least a month to any part of Indian. Let me clarify here, I donot look any decent of Indian i.e. I am not so dark as Indian so that they can treat as Indian nor I am completely Nepali decent either.
Another experience, I have many Indian friends in USA and also sometime hang out with Indian and even they like to be handout with me too. The point is, sometime they act as superiorty than anybody else. That make me little bit reluctant to have long relationship with them.
In my work. I have a Indian friend who has been in US for 20 years, and also realize and somethime reluctant to say Indian himsel, he prefer to say American. Have been good relation, I mean no problem at all. In the mean time, another Indian guy join the group. Since then, we have been some trouble cause of him. He try to be grouppng with my old buddy Indian and try to isolate me. Not only that, he try to argue more than necessary. That makes me another point.
Well I have many such kind of events, which I donot isolate them, mostly prefer to make buddy than anybody else. The point comes here, why these people act diferent way and make us negative impression. That's what I found big differnce between Indian and Nepalese. As my experience most of Indian people like to argue than necessity even small issue or whatever.
Finally, well everybody has pros and cons. Good or bad, I don't say almost all Indians are bad nor they are good either. Buttom line is, I do still realize, without Indian, nepalese lifes are still in difficult whether that is in mother land (Nepal) or in abroad. I have seen, Indian helping lots of nepalese in different ways.
|
| down winder |
Posted
on 20-May-02 01:40 PM
and if india and pakistan nuke one another, do you think that indian people--fuggeddabout india's gov't--will shed a single tear if little ol' neutral nepal gets wasted as well?
|
| two cents |
Posted
on 20-May-02 01:53 PM
Dear Patel bhiya!
You asked such an innocent question as to why Nepalis don't like India in general. There could be many reasons, but one of the biggest gripe is that India continues to organize, arm, and send them on a genocidal, destructive path into Nepal. If India is such a close neighbor and friend, why does it do this? WE certainly have to redifine the meaning of 'friend' when the Indians are concerned!
If India is so whole heartedly supporting terrorists against Nepal, India has no right to ask Pakistan to stop cross-border terrorism.
With 'friends' like Indians, who needs enemies, no?
|
| just comment to 420 |
Posted
on 20-May-02 04:57 PM
Chaar sau bis,
I always felt hatred for Indians too and thought we should be close to chinese (since I look more like them) but I found I was dead wrong. Chinese people are the worst when it comes to helping others. They hate indians and take them as their competition for green card job etc. Any nepali can find a job in an indian restaurant but try your luck in a chinese. Most your points are right on the bull's eye but some are way off. Here are my comment to you -
do nepalis enslave indian girls and force them to be put through the brutal gang-rape meatgrinder of government-sanctioned prostitution?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I used to work for a NGO dealing with girl trafficing. Believe me, most of the girls are sold by their own relative and mostly by the parents approval. You will be surprised how many of those "enslaved" girls go there to actually make money. I think we should stop that at our house before blaming them. As for prostitution, its the oldest profession - if you set it up, they will come.
does nepal buy indian staple foodstuffs, adulterate them, and sell them back to indians at significant mark-up?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There are already too many indians doing that in India. You see ? tough competition, that is whey nepalis are not good at it.
do nepalis fight their "internal" battles by putting indians on the front lines (a la kargil)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can't comment on this because -
1. RNA does not have indians
2. Nepal has not yet allowed indians to come to our land to fight against MAOIST. It will be interesting to see who is on the front line wheh they do.
do nepalis go around the world marketing their culture by claiming gandhi was born in nepal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think you are referring to Buddha. See, buddha was born over 2000 years ago. there was no "nepal" at that time. If you look at Lumbini area, most of the people you see are what we call
"madhise" in nepal. So, despite the rosy-cheek oriental buddha you see, buddha most likely was a dark-skinned indian looking guy. Kapilbastu itself was a country at that time(rather small). So, in my view, we can say "Buddha was born what now is Nepal". therefore, neither india nor Nepal can claim buddha to be their citizen.
do nepali films always portray indians as violent, knife-wielding gangsters?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now Dainy had a choice, he choose to be villain. Dainy tried acting like a good guy but was no successful. You are acting like a black person in US - media always portrays us bad. Well. why do you think ? If you were ever involved in gangs in Nepal, who do you see knif-wielding ? Guys like chakre, lahure-ko-choras (mostly), manange in thamel. So, in a way, they are not way too off, plus they don't do it that often.
does nepal have a shiva sena equivalent that goes door-to-door in dilli soliciting donations?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well we have shiva sena ko bau - MAOBADI extorting money from everybody. Atleast shiv sena do not bomb SOS balgram for not donating them money.
has nepal ever unilaterally shut its border with india just because india did something that displeased singha durbar?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Believe me we would if we could. The indian mentality and nepali mentality are very much in par.
has nepal ever facilitated ethnic cleansing by helping the aggressors dump their victims in india via nepal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You got me there.
does nepal seek to exploit india's water resources with little or no benefit to india?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You got me there too.
is kollywood-driven nepali pop culture crowding out indigenous indian culture?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You got me there too but that is becoming a world-wide trend. hollywood is copied by bollywoord and so forth, its a top-down.
did india ever contain huge sections of nepal, such as tehri garwal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
there was no "india" then, it was a whole bunch of states of countries.
does nepal project a regional superiority complex alongside an international inferiority complex?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Definitely but in a miniscule level. Nepalis have the biggest ego problem (and so does india, once again, we are in par)
does nepal hinder the free transit of indian goods and services to the rest of the world?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
we would if we could.
do nepalis who move to india refuse to speak hindi/english/local dialect in public?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You got me there.
do nepali entrepreneurs--especially restauranteurs--treat their indian employees like slaves?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
try working in one and you will know.
is the indian rupee's value pegged to the nepali rupee?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
you know why ? what was our GDP ? minus some number ?
do nepalis give serious consideration to making all of india into just another bunch of anchaals?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
we would if we could.
do nepalis take action against anti-india activites committed by third-country nationals on nepali soil?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
yes we do, we expelled pakistani diplomat.
is hindi infested with nepali slang and terms like "chaar saya bis" and "chiya"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
chiya is from chinese word - cha (you need to read more)
if the chapaal were on the other foot, would indians be justified for disliking nepalis?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BAM !!! see, we would do the same thing if we could !!!
if indians cannot treat one another with decency, what makes anyone think that they will treat their neighbors much better?
No intention to bring any kind of racial prejudice with the comments. just pointing out the fact. i stil do not like indian attitude but i have seen worse.
|
| Nepal-Bharat Maitri Sangh |
Posted
on 20-May-02 05:17 PM
Patel Bhaisahib, you have opened a pandora's box.
I am glad that people like you see this problem and want to do something good about it. Let us re-iterate the problem then let us state what can and should be done.
Some of the problems of past have been greatly summarized by people earlier. Nepal and Inidia has love hate relationships, can't live with and it can't live without it.
Problem has been from both sides:
1) Bad water, land and trade and transit treaties, partly because Nepal could never stand up and present a sound treaty due to lack of leadership and knowledge. (On the other hand India had been trained by cunning British)
IIT educated hawkish Indian IAS officer could simply gobble the SLC failed Nepalese Prime Minister's Cousin in the negotiating table by starting with demeaning statement like 'Beta Jis High Scool Mein Tum Padhteho Uska Main Headmaster Tha And you tell me where our border lies? '.
2) Failure of Indians to fully (in practice) recognize Nepal as a soverign nation.
3) Promotion of 'hate Indians you get promoted' policy by earlier Panchayat system in Nepal
4) Lack of exposer among people from both sides. Belief of Bihar is India among Nepalese, and Nepal is Kathmandu among Indians or Nepalese are just Bahadurs on Indian streets. or Indians are only vegetable hawkers of Kahtmandu valley.
5) Inferiority complex of Nepalese and superirority complex in Indians in many cases.
But, there are always silver lining in dark clouds:
1) Nepalese people can assure themselves that if India loves any other country in this whole world then it is only one country and that is 'Nepal'.
2) Despite all the differences both Nepal and India knows that they have unconconditional bondage and they can always rely on each other during difficult times.
3) There are lots of projects done in Nepal by Indians successfully. Tribhuvan Raj Path joined Kathmandu with rest of the World build during 1953 in three years by Indian Army.
Some Nepalese are so bitter about this highway they think that India did this so that Nepal will spend all it's ecnomy to burn the fuel in this bad road. They say ook at the roads China made.
But, that is a bad point, simply check all the Himalayan roads India has in it's own soil they are worst than Tribhuvan Rajpath. This Rajpath was built in a record time with least money, so we should thank India on opening Nepal to the rest of the whole World.
4) India is laying fiber optics lines along east west Nepal and is helping Nepal to establish itself in Global IT map.
Similarly there are numerous other positive rojects
But, can anything better be done? How and what?
1) Nepal needs to stand up and re-negotiate unfavorable treaties in equal terms by submitting intellecutal findings and sending qualified team. If India does not listen be innovative and take it to higher level (Indian media - kill them in their own land, or UN, or other third party), but, don't annoy India by taking out dirtly laundry uselessly. Be effective, not noisy. - Nepalese team needs to learn how to retort back 'Sir Jis School Mein Aap Headmaster The Uska Main Principal Ho Gaya Hun'.
Nepal has democratically elected government, so, now Nepalese Government should know how to look on eye to eye with Indian counter part. Inspite of the size of the country Deoba and Bajpayee are equal now both represent 'people'. It's not like Tulsi Giri Vs Indira Gandhi who represented 'King' and 'people'
2) Nepalese Government should learn and be innovative what to demand, where to partner with, and what to give.
3) India has to stop playing the cards of smuggling from small Nepal border while it has twenty times bigger open border elsewhere. Nepal has to show those IAS officers how porous border is feeding bordering part of India by Nepalese agreculture food product smuggled. If border is sealed Nepal will easily feed rest of the country by the food product developed in 17% of Nepalese fertile land and Bihar will starve.
4) India and Nepal should work together to get advantage of vast Nepalese Hydro power. Nepal should let India build the dam, after all India builts one of the cheapest dam in the Whole world (while Nepal built one of the costliest dam in the whole world) - but make sure the deals made are equitable and transparent.
5) Nepal has to stop playing China card in it's foreign policy. That should die along with Panchayat system. Nepal also should stop playing SAARC card to deal with India. India would like to treat Nepal in special way away from regional co-operation, and that is better for Nepal.
6) India should change it's history books, and teach more Nepalese history in it's elementary schools. Budha was born in Nepal, and Everest lies in Nepal-Tibet border just like Kanchenjenga lies between India-Nepal border.
7) People from both countries should learn to respect each other and stop calling names like 'dhoti', 'kancha', 'bahadur', 'madsya', 'chor indian' etc.
I hope this helps Mye Dear Patel Bhaiya.
- Jai Nepal, Jai Hind
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| Trai |
Posted
on 20-May-02 11:06 PM
"5) Nepal has to stop playing China card in it's foreign policy. That should die along with Panchayat system. Nepal also should stop playing SAARC card to deal with India. India would like to treat Nepal in special way away from regional co-operation, and that is better for Nepal. "
This I totally disagree with. No special, preferential treatment needed. All we want is negotiations/dealings in equal terms.
And unless and until, India views us as Bhutan, we have to keep on playing the China card in our foreign policy. We live in a polarized world, so we have to have one superpower (regional power) speak for us, if needed. So, China card, American card.w e should play 'em all to make the Indian governmnet realize that Nepal is not ISOLATED as Bhutan. "the enemy of your enemy is your best friend"
:-)
SAARC CARD: What's this? yo mero gyan bata bahira ko kura paryo, so, would love some explanation on this, please.
Now Special Treatment: How would you define "special treatment"? The dealings are always either on :"equal trems" or "unequal terms". IF we dedmand and expect specail treatment, then India will treat us as Bhutan. BHutan gets "special/preferential" treatment, so, are you saying that India should treat us as it treats Bhutan?
Our leaders should figure out ways to develop economic co-opeation with India, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma (and with the otherc ountries of this region), without compromising on our sovereignity.
OK, almost 10 AM in Nepal. So, will be back on this when I retun home tonight.
Trai
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| Trai |
Posted
on 20-May-02 11:24 PM
I just realized there was an error on my previous posting:
Please read the line "unless and until" as " As long as Inida views Nepal azs Bhutan".
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| Etremis |
Posted
on 21-May-02 07:15 AM
Hi Mr Patel and mero La doo kha to all Ra ndi kodam bad dhotiharu,
May be you are the one of the very few good indians.Dam indian gov are their mother fu**ing parasites.I believe that you know about them better than me.Even though belonging to the same religion and the same culure how they dare to fu**their own nepalese brother.
Your government knows very well that nobody can clap with single hand,what your mother fuc**ing gov is doing is just ignoring us.
What i wanna say is that the minority of some good indians like you are the victims.I suggest you to step on the Indian politic and achieve sucess upto primeminister position.Then take a fair decision over tons of questions relating to Nepal and nepalese.If somebody or you do that then we will surely have good feelings,support and representation towards Indians.
But a very important question is that by that time will you be the same good old Mr Patel or a general Mother fu**ing Indian politician.
Non of the nepalese above have mentioned one of the very important reason.The bhutanese refugee in Nepal.It was the same Mother fu**ing Indian politicians who initated and blessed the M* F* Bhutanese government to kill,rape and then exile Nepalese peopleorigin from Bhutan.
Again due to the same mother fu**ing parasite Indian politicians the problem is not getting solved since years & years.
Jaya Nepal.
Dear readers i'm sorry for my above mentioned expresstion but that was the least i could write about them.
Thank you for your comprehension.
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| extra-extremis |
Posted
on 21-May-02 09:15 AM
I would give 100% support for Mr.Extremis on the Behalf Of All Nepalese.
It's ok with your language, nothing's wrong with that when referring to parasitic neighbour.
extra-extra
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| no |
Posted
on 21-May-02 10:49 AM
This Patel Singh guys is not an Indian. He is a Nepali from Indian origin. I can sense it from his writing....
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| India vs Nepal |
Posted
on 21-May-02 11:41 AM
Hi Guys
I know Nepalese Hate Indians because of some Indians bihari/chorichakari mentality.
Nepalese are hating Indians and they will continue to hate Indians because of the resources, job market and the business are taken by those "do kaudi k bihari, saaley khana napauney indian origin" people in Nepal.
Beause of One Indian actor Hritik Roshan , 6 nepali people lost their lives due to some rumour created and implemented by some Indi people.
ALl the looga/gahana pasals in Nepal are being replaced by Indian people because somepeople in Nepal just see money and they rent their shutter in Bisal bazaar, baagh bazaar,newrd toIndi peeps who offer them money.(NRs 1= IC 1.60)
Aru ko aang ma jumra dhekhney aafno aang ma bhainsi nadhekhney nepali haru ko prabriti ley garera yesto bhayeko ho....
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| Radhaa |
Posted
on 21-May-02 11:53 AM
All Patel was asking for was some understanding, to rise above the politics and see each other (nepali and indian) with respect and friendship. Not so surprisingly the narratives took a prdictable path. In a true democracy our voice should have pursued our politicians to right the wrong. But as we all know, they are paltu kukku of Indian politicians and they sit when asked to sit and wag their tell when a piece of meat is thrown at them. And what do the brave Nepali do? Single out a street vendor and humilate him! In parties, call names! Civility bhaneko kun chara ko nam ho,ha? Bravo! What else can we do, right? Just wait for the night to fall and jump at some innocent indians and break their legs. Metaphorically and literally.
Poor us! Pity on us!
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| E_sajha |
Posted
on 21-May-02 12:55 PM
After reading some of the reply’s above, I am ashamed to represent myself as a proud “Nepali”. It don’t matter weather Mr.Patel is an Indian or “Nepali from Indian origin” (Whatever that means). But to my understanding all Mr.Patel wanted was few good answers.
I don’t think it’s the Politics for why Nepalese hate Indians, I think it’s more because of like Mr. Etremis, who has such an EGO that he doesn’t have a bit of a respect for himself, and for others, and he thinks he is playing “cool”. Most of them who hate Indians, I’d bet know nothing (or very little) about the politics and policies between India and Nepal. If Politics was the main reason for this, why would they hate “madise” who are very much Nepali? Don’t we see people “madise lai hepiraako” In KTM city and elsewhere. I think it’s the EGO.
Whatever it is? Even if its politics (As if Nepal has the best policies with other countries), Mr.Patel has come to this room as our friend and with good gesture and we should all respect him. Don’t get politics and your ego get in between friends. We as people from Nepal should have positive attitude towards all citizen, race, and background. Life is too short so try to make best out of it.
E_Sajha!
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| Nepal-Bharat Maitri Sangh |
Posted
on 21-May-02 12:57 PM
HI Trai,
I agree with you regarding China card the way you are describing. My way of not playing China card was in the context of 'chuche' form Nepal plays time to time. There are lots of example like buying useless arms from China, making Chinese consultant concentrae in Indian borders etc. But, in the bigger sense, we need to be equally friendly with China and in fact they also have soft corner towards Nepal more than numerous other neighbors of theirs (I think they have 13/14 neighbors).
Also, the special treatment does not mean treatment like Bhutan. Many countries have special treatment with other countries, e.g., US and Canada. You can deal in equal terms with a special blend in it, that is also politics. NAFTA is another example.
Regarding SAARC card, it is long story, I will be brief. I started noticing this during Zea Ul Haque time. All of India's neighbor have/had bad relationships with India, it is only Nepal who has better relationship than others and who inspite of size can be vocal about it (issues) time to time. So, instead of talking about issues directly with India they will push Nepal in front to deal with India. It's like 'Arkako Kandhma Bandoo Rakhera Hannu'. Because of that Nepal had to suffer lots of Indian wrath unnecessarily. Nepali politicians did not and do not even realize that other countries are using Nepal for this purpose. Though it is a regional co-operating association, Nepal should be very aware of individual issues and don't mingle on it un-necessarirly.
That's all for now
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| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 21-May-02 02:11 PM
The problem is not with the people, in most cases. Indians and Nepalese people are respectful toward each other for teh most part. The problem lies with the policies of the two governments that are sometimes real and sometimes perceived as being utterly unjust. Many such examples have been mentioned in this forum.
People playing high politics in Nepal exploit anti-Indian sentiments to gain political advantage and distract thier own shortcoming. Nepalese people buy it because India's policies have harmed the aspirations of Nepalese for the most part of its existence. Indian people have goodwill toward Nepalese, but the same cannot be said of Indian politicians, except the likes of I.K. Gujral. Hence Indian policy of interference and domination of its neighbors has created hostility not only among Nepalese, but also other neighbors in South Asia. Its just too sad.
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| people and govt |
Posted
on 21-May-02 03:46 PM
au contraire, mon frere, it's the ACTIONS of both india's people and india's national, state, and local governments (same difference in a democracy, folks). it's all "mukh ma ram, ram, bagli ma chura" i've witnessed it time and again. indians pay lip service... "hey, we're all the same people" and "we look upon nepal/nepalis as little brother or little sister", and then they bully little bro and rape little sis. deny it all you want--it's still true.
i am merely pointing out SOME reasons that mr. singh asked about. he did not ask about what positive interactions nepalis and indians have (which are many), so it is wholly appropriate that people call a spade a spade in this thread.
do you really think that indians would sit by idly if nepal decided to develop its own resources first and foremost for the benefit of nepalis? indians want free nepali topsoil and cost-plus hydroelectricity, the locals upstream be damned.
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| E_sajha |
Posted
on 21-May-02 06:59 PM
Again, I think the problem is with the people. Many Nepalese think that Indians are “fogi”. For some reason we try to act as if we are better than the Indians, which we are “not”. Even if it’s the Politics, Do we have a valid reason to hate Indians (People of India) just because our country has some dispute over some issues with India?
If that’s the case, Bhutan kicked out over million Nepalese who were living there for generations, and now they are refuge in Eastern part of Nepal. Do we now hate the Bhutanese too?
E_sajha!
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| Gorkhey |
Posted
on 22-May-02 04:29 AM
Patel and Singh,
confusing ?
You forgot your name or forgot your cast ?
Patel is Gujrati
Singh is Punjabi.
Are you mixed ? just a question.
You are confused about your name and cast, now you are hear to know about Nepalese attitude towards Indian. May be you don't know your natinality also.
Anyway you started good topic. Our brothers have already given you all the points and clarified you. Hope you got your answer that you were looking for.
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| Trai |
Posted
on 22-May-02 10:18 PM
>HI Trai,
>
>I agree with you regarding China card the
>way you are describing. My way of not
>playing China card was in the context of '
>chuche' form Nepal plays time to time.
>There are lots of example like buying
>useless arms from China, making Chinese
>consultant concentrae in Indian borders etc.
> But, in the bigger sense, we need to be
>equally friendly with China and in fact they
>also have soft corner towards Nepal more
>than numerous other neighbors of theirs (I
>think they have 13/14 neighbors).
Dear NBMS,
We never bought "useless arms" from China. In 2946, we bought, anti-aircraft rockets from China and that's why the Indian's imposed the economic embargo. This is a well-known truth. The RNA can buy anything that it thinks is useful from any country in the world.
We need to be friends with India and China, this i agree, but our leaders sometimes forget the fact taht if we are surrounded by India from 3 sides, then we have china on one side, and we should be able to take advantage of this.
>
>Also, the special treatment does not mean
>treatment like Bhutan. Many countries have
>special treatment with other countries, e.g.,
> US and Canada. You can deal in equal terms
>with a special blend in it, that is also
>politics. NAFTA is another example.
Special treatment by India is different than the special treatment Canada enjoys from the US. If we ask for the special treatment then, we will be like Bhutan. And I also think that we shouldn't have a speacial blend because that will, in the long run make nepal more vulneravble to Indian 'expansionism'
>Regarding SAARC card, it is long story, I
>will be brief. I started noticing this
>during Zea Ul Haque time. All of India's
>neighbor have/had bad relationships with
>India, it is only Nepal who has better
>relationship than others and who inspite of
>size can be vocal about it (issues) time to
>time. So, instead of talking about issues
>directly with India they will push Nepal in
>front to deal with India. It's like 'Arkako
>Kandhma Bandoo Rakhera Hannu'. Because of
>that Nepal had to suffer lots of Indian
>wrath unnecessarily. Nepali politicians did
>not and do not even realize that other
>countries are using Nepal for this purpose.
>Though it is a regional co-operating
>association, Nepal should be very aware of
>individual issues and don't mingle on it un-
>necessarirly.
I see SAArc as a forum where the member nations work together for regiuonal co-operation (in theory), and I don't think, SAARC charter allows one nation state to accuse/blame another nation state when the session is in progress. NO BILATERAL ISUES CAN E DISCUSSED DURING THE SAARC MEETINGS.
>That's all for now
Was very enlightening, thank you. bahut bahut dhanyabaad, gan xie ni and thank you very much.
Trai
|
| rebelious sevendust |
Posted
on 23-May-02 06:19 PM
to mahamurkha
in what basis can you say that our( nepali) orgin is formed from southern India? if you are talking about thousands of years back then there was no india,nepal,pakisthan,bangaladesh etc. it was known as greater india
( mahabharat) . so how can you tell that current southern india is the origin of nepal? why not current nepal is the origin of southern India? i don't think that I have to tell you demarkation of nepal was the first in south east asia. you know what that means? it means that nepal is the oldest country in south east asia. you have also mentioned that indian's have not so good attitude towards you. that's what happens when you don't stand your ground and kiss someone's ass.
to "just comments to 420"
I can understand that you're trying to b fair but I have to disagree with you aobut your comment on Buddha. why couldn''t you say that "buddha was dark skinned nepali looking guy"? we nepali are dark skinned too.
to nepal-bharat maitri sangh:
what do you have to say about when china wanted to build highway that would connect nepal and china and the roads china were to built on the mountains of kathmandu just like ring road. do you remember how much "halla" was there in indian parliament and they convinced indian ass lickers nepali congress and its leader BP koirala to put a halt on the process. you see its not that hard to see that if nepal had another highway to bring supplies necessary to nepal through different route other thant india's, then nepal didn't have to kiss indian's ass.
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| Nepal Bharat Maitri Sangh |
Posted
on 23-May-02 07:26 PM
To rebelious sevendust:
...what do you have to say about when china wanted to build highway that would connect nepal and china and the roads china were to built on the mountains of kathmandu just like ring road. do you remember how much "halla" was there in indian parliament and they convinced indian ass lickers nepali congress and its leader BP koirala to put a halt on the process. you see its not that hard to see that if nepal had another highway to bring supplies necessary to nepal through different route other thant india's, then nepal didn't have to kiss indian's ass....
You have a point here. Only unfortunate situation we have is there is no developments in Tibet and it takes 10 days for a tanker to go to a civilization in Tibet for it to come back with fuel. Even Chinese said to look towards India for your needs we can not help you.....during embargo
We are stuck with India. So, all I am trying to say is Nepal has to be innovative and strong in dealing with India and clear about what has to be asked and how to ask in favor of Nepal. It is all matter of how you present your case, how much you are prepared to negotiate and what are the cards you are playing, which comes from appointing scholars and making backgrounds during negotiation time. Just crying foul does not help. Those people are called Whiner...
We have to create a business link in such way that we have more stake from other countries that way Nepal will get better leverage during negotiation. Some work has started. For example create a joint venture projects putting multinational companies. If we have enough of those projects, then putting pressure on India to give us better trade and transit treaty is a breeze, because, the pressure will come from those multinational companies and India can not scare those companies.
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| Buddhi |
Posted
on 23-May-02 08:16 PM
Rebelious_sevendust, we can't be from Southern India because we are much, more fairskinned than South Indians. Have you ever seen South Indians? Theyare black, and look llike Ethiopians. Not all Nepalis are dark skinned! Can't you tell the difference between a Madhise and a regular nepali guy just by looking at them?
Madhises=dark-skinned, most of the time.
Bahun= Can be dark skinned, or medium or light skinned. Most often, they look like North Western Indians or Middle Easterners. A few look like Hispanics. Chettris=dark-skinned or medium or light skinned. Some can easily pass as Europeans. Usually, they look like Hispanics. A few look Indianish/Middle Easternish too.
Newars=dark-skinned or medium or light skinned. They usually look like Hispanics. Some can easily pass as Europeans.Some can also pass as Chinese. They can look like anybody!
Sherpas: Can be light skinned or dark-skinned. Ones living in higher altitude=dark skinned b/c U-V radiation.
Eastern Mongolians(Rai, Limbu, etc): Medium skinned. Related to the Burmese.
Western Mongolians(Gurungs, etc): Usually light skinned. Mostly look like South East Asians(Philippinos, Cambodians, etc). Some can pass as Chinese. I have seen some darker ones too.
Also, Nepal is in SOUTH ASIA, not SOUTH-EAST ASIA. Hello??? What does SAARC stand for?
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| Trai |
Posted
on 23-May-02 08:55 PM
Dear Nepal Bharat Maitri Sangh:
What's the sourcee of your information? I don't believe a single word in there Re; China's unwillingness to help Nepal out. Please enlighten me and if you can name your source, I'll really appreciate that.
Thank You
Trai
|
| MatribhumiNepal |
Posted
on 23-May-02 09:43 PM
Trai, you seem to be nice person. So, I will tell you my secret resource about China story, just don't tell others :)
When I tell you this, just don't jump to conclusion. I am not pro-Indian or pro-Chinese. Non of these countries are sincere. They are all nationlisitic. Which is good actually, only if we Nepalese were Nationalistic like them too. And that means they are teaching us to be nationalistic. We all should work on getting best for our own countries, in fact other countries will respect that....
Anyway, remember one of many trips our beloved king and queen took to Peking? Chairman Mao was holding our late queen' hand longer than a normal shake hand? We all were laughing at 'ghorle Budho' saying how affectionate? But, well Chinese did not seem to be that affectionate after all.
Right after that Mt. Everest suddenly was placed in the border of Nepal and Tibet. If you research on Nepalese map archives you will find Mt. Everest solely was on Nepal away from Tibet border at around middle of 1970's. It was done in such clever way that non of sensitive Nepalese even knew about it. And, who knew they were so blinded with India bashing that they did not even care for Sharing a National pride with other countries.
Interestingly though, very few Nepalese get scared of China to taking over Nepal even though China annexed Tibet, but, most Nepalese are scared of India because India annexed Sikkim. Most Nepalese don't care about giving half of Mr Everest to China, but they cry foul for disputed 10 yard land in useless marshy land in Terai Jungal.
Is not this baffling?
Well how do I know all these? I happened to work on such offices where these secrets are/were kept. Now don't go looking for me ...
In serious note I just keep researching and read archives and keep my eyes and ears openl.
If you don't believe me then just ask any responsible officer in Nepal about China to contradict me. They have no guts to speak about it.
(Note: When Nepal sent hundreds of Oil Tanker to Tibet and almost all of them returned empty after 10 days during embargo, that is the time the Chinese authority said, well we don't have much development in this side of Tibet, so you have to rely on India)
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| Trai |
Posted
on 23-May-02 10:47 PM
Ok Matribhumi Nepal,
Thank you very much for your insights.. and if you are in Nepal, we can meet. I too happen to go to those places where "those" records are kept (and I probably have more access to it than you).. just tell me.. pararastra mantralaya ko poko no. kati ma written what you wrote ealier. That will be of great help.
Trai
Thank you very much..
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