| Username |
Post |
| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 23-May-02 07:56 PM
Today May 23, 2002, I had an opportunity to watch documentary/news telecast by News Word International (NWI) TV. The documentary was about an hour prepared and presented about Maoist and Army problem in Nepal. NWI had prepared the report by sending their reporter in the Maoist affected area (Rolpa and other west side). They interviewed several villagers along with families of people killed by both Maoist and Army. The documentary mostly blamed to Govt more than Maoist. They found an Army has been killing several innocent local villagers as suspecting Maoist. The report said an army finds whomever young people wandering that area, killed them without any warning and suspecting as Maoist. Later investigation over victim, reporter said, they neither found any link to Maoist nor any weapon inside their home. Many villagers said victims were not Maoist They said they were even against with Maoist. Why army killed without any investigation, villager and reporters said. The report indicated more than hundred of villagers were killed by Army/police as just suspecting Maoist. The report said Govt has been doing more wrongful act than Maoist.
Since I watched this documentary, I felt very much sorry and sympathy went to those poor villagers killed by army. Their wife, kids and families were more vulnerable than Maoist because, there were supported by neither side i.e. nor Maoist nor victim of Maoist.
The documentary also reported saying whether Nepal is really in “War against Terrorist”? Or “War against own their people”.
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| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 24-May-02 12:20 PM
I mean --> The Heading should be: Govt/Amry is killing Innociant villegars.
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| Bullshit |
Posted
on 24-May-02 12:26 PM
Documentary must be taken from maoist village and all the villagers are maoist.
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| Parakhi |
Posted
on 24-May-02 01:00 PM
It's true.. There are such incidents. I don't know how many have been killed that way.
I have one of my relatives killed by the army for nothing. He was sleeping at his home some 25 days ago. Then he was awaken by the army at night and taken about 5 km west in the highway. Next morning his body was found in Primary Health Care balcony as a moist killed in encounter.... He never supported moists.... but just ran a small tea shop along the highway to support his family.
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| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 24-May-02 02:13 PM
Dear Bullshit,
You have only word to say Bullshit. You didnot watch that documentary nor you have any sympathy with those poor villegars who's parents were killed by Amry. The documentary showed, the father of victim became so insane, was behaving like almost "Pagal" - mad man in the mud. Beside, wifes and kids of other victims were so lovely faces, you never can't imagine how they are suffering. I still know, you have only word "Bullshit". There is a ukkhan - "Seeing is believing". I watch the documentary, so I believed on the report. So,you don't believe until even your father died in front of your eye. Wherever reporter went and how did they prepared, I don't care nor I am supporting Maoist here. I am just sporting those villegars who killed by Govt/Army. During the invterviewed with 8 years old boy in the village, 8 years old boys won't lie. Boy said, Army just came inside the room, and shot him, without asking any word. This kind of interview never give to report infront of TV. There were not only that boy in the documentary, the reporter interviewed several other villagers. I don't see any lying to reporter infront of TV. You can figure out from their faces. They are almost crying with deep shy face.
Finally, if you don't believe it, don't do. It does not make different you one person isnot believing. That is the truth what I saw on TV.
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| chicago |
Posted
on 24-May-02 07:23 PM
It was true. I had watched that report as well. Report was more or less true. Many children were without parent due to fear of Army because they were fled away from the place and left children alone there. All those children were below 10 years. I don't think they were all Maoist's children. How they will be taken care of all children. A 7 Years old girl was talking with Reporter in Nepali, later on translated by interpretator, girl was saying, she was in bed around 8 PM. Amry came inside the house with big Gun and shot her father and mother, both of them. Their parent both were in bed too. As per her, their mother and father never left her and never go anywhere. So, how they convicted her parents as maoist?
Well, there is lot of question around there, probably Govt. will answer on it.
Chic
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| Kancha Kaji |
Posted
on 24-May-02 11:15 PM
You need to look both sides before making judgemnts against one party. Look into the maobadi side on how they are killing innocent civilians. There might be some casualties by the army but I the cause. Army has excersed full caution not to harm the civilians. Army has strict orders not to harm civilians. There are several discussions in this board about this.
Mahamukta, are you a maobadi? As maobadi use this same phrase to garnish support against government!
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| sage |
Posted
on 25-May-02 09:11 AM
Kancha Kaji,
Why is it that if someone raises issues about what the government is doing, they are suspected of being "Maobadi"?
What phrase are you referring to that the Maobadi also use?
It has been well documented by human rights groups that both the government security forces and the Maobadi have killed people brutally. It is documented that for a long time, Nepali police forces have engaged in torture. I have a friend who was tortured in the jana andolan fighting for multi-party democracy. For 72 hours he was stripped naked, electrocuted, beaten, and the police demanded that he must tell them who he was with. His "crime" was painting pro-democracy slogans on a wall. Torture was used in the past and it is still used in the present. Human rights groups have documented regular use of torture since 1991 up to the time of last report. There remains no law against torture in Nepal, as far as I know.
Security forces have been killing people who may or may not be Maobadi, as several news reports have reiterated. They may take them into the jungle on the vaguest suspicion, or they may shoot if someone runs away when they come into a village (maybe they are just villagers afraid of the police or RNA, for good reason).
I haven't seen this firsthand, but I also haven't seen Maobadi violence firsthand. I have read reports of both. Which do I believe and which do I not believe? I think there must be some truth to each report, but which ones are amplified in the news sources, and which are suppressed? The answer to that is obvious -- that the official Nepali news sources will amplify crimes of the Maobadi. For after all, Gorkhapatra is state-owned, Radio Nepal is state-owned, and the others are what remains after the crackdown on freedom of the press, and they are very careful to self-censor. All issues of the Kathmandu Post was siezed when they published a photo of Maobadi that the government thought was too sympathetic to it. Many journalists have been arrested, interrogated, and detained -- even for printing a quote from Prachanda. The press knows its role now.
But if someone brings up these problems, then the reply is automatically "Are you a Maobadi?" -- This reminds me of McCarthyism in the United States, when everybody was under suspicion of being a "Communist". These days the operative word is "terrorist" and it is a witch hunt again, where anyone who doesn't show enough false patriotism (meaning "I support my country right or wrong") is seen as deviant and suspicious. Anyone who questions the wisdom of the government is suspect. No actual crimes have to be committed -- just critical thinking is enough.
I have experienced this in the U.S. after September 11, because I opposed bombing Afghanistan and killing more innocent people. Now I see the same thing in Nepal. "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists." Nepal has imported the worst thing about the United States -- closed minds.
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| Kancha Kaji |
Posted
on 25-May-02 09:44 AM
Simply because, in a war like situation "you are with us or you are against us". You cannot hold dual grounds. When you watch a soccer game can you be critical of both parties. No, why is this different in a war? What is wrong with asking that if you are a maobadi? I have read postings from the author I responded to and the author is sympathetic to the maobadis and hateful to other casts and races other than the author's own.
I agree with you in that RNA and police have some serious issues to handle. Police and militery have been instructed not to cause civilian casualty. Having said this, do I believe this is 100% in force. No. I am certain of some casualties.
It is troubling to see that there are people that are sympathic to maobadis. Despite the verge that the country is in serious trouble. The people that trouble me the most is the people that hold dual grounds. They say they do not support maobadis, they say that they are NOT maobadis yet time and again supported the maobadi. Knowingly. What does it make them, a defiant maobadi?
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| huh |
Posted
on 25-May-02 09:49 AM
HEY ! SAGE COULD BECOME A REFEREE !!! SINCE HE IS NOT NEPALESE, NOT NECESSARY TO SUPPORT ANY OF SIDE ! GREAT JOB(Y)
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| Kancha Kaji |
Posted
on 25-May-02 10:05 AM
Sage, The phrase maobadi use is the government is killing innocient civilians. maobadis see themselves as innocient civilians. Is this ironic? pathetic? or stupid?
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| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 25-May-02 08:36 PM
Dear Kancha Kaji,
Before you put a question " Are you a Maobadi" to me, you should read my article properly. I already mentioned, neither I am supporting Maoist nor govt. I mean, my sympathy is goes to those villagers those killed by Army even they are innocent and were not supporting to Maoist. Even many village are infested of maoist, it does not necessary to be all villagers are maobadi and maoist supporter. There is many cases and many people still opposed to maoist. For example, you are not necessary to be a terrorist even you came from terrorist place/country. Another example is there is many "chore" in congress party even they are opposed to their party themselve. You can find many villagers are sitting silently due to fear from both sides- maoist and army. Even, I am bring this issue to this forum, it is not necessary to be I am maobadi and supporting maoist. I had an opportunity to watch that report and putting the same thing in this forum. I have seen many cases and many evidence who makes loud sound, mostly they are behind the scene. In other word "Jo chhor usaiko thulo shor". Like espionage (spy) and politician they try to act high sounding when they need to cover up their bad work and act.
There are tremedous examples and evidence in history that Govt/Army have been doing many wrong jobs before Moaist and maobadi exist in Nepal.
- Whether do you acknolwedge this point or not?
-- mahamurkha
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| Kancha Kaji |
Posted
on 26-May-02 03:10 AM
Mahamukta,
I have read your statements, carefuly. I do not advocate for the government but I support the cause to supress the maobadis. It seems to me that you are trying to justify for the existance of maobadi.
I am aware of the problems in Nepal and one of the biggest problem Nepal has is the people that do not have a firm grounds on their political thinking. Eventhough this is the begining of democracy, people with critical thinking are necessay to support the country. If you do not have a ground ie if you are neutral you should work for redcross but you should not advocate for the terrorists.
Even though you have said that you are not a maobadi but leniant towards them, I am still confused as to where you stand?
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| truth be told |
Posted
on 28-May-02 09:06 AM
yes, many civilians are being killed. yes, the police and army should be taken to task for their abuse of power. this will happen, mark my words. not every criminal act by the security forces will be punished, but the truth will come out in many cases.
i think a more pressing issue is the use maobadis' use of civilian human shields. without a doubt, this is happening, and the terrorists themselves admit to this war crime. when attacked, they hide like the cowards they are behind unarmed people whom they purport to protect. and when they attack police and army positions, they force their civilian hostages to march in front of them so that the defenders--who often cannot differentiate (especially during nighttime attacks) between hostages and terrorists--will expend their limited ammunition on the first waves, which leaves them much more vulnerable to the subsequent onslaught by armed maoist terrorists.
given the plethora of nakkali "human rights" NGOs operating in the country (what better cover?), it remains unclear who--besides the police and army--will hold the terrorists accountable...perhaps the nepali people themselves?
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| Passerby |
Posted
on 28-May-02 11:25 AM
I think atrocities have been commited by both sides. There was a recent article in Time or someplace about how a 54 year old man was skinned by the Maoists becasue he sympathized with a particular political party. Skinned infront of his family and left to die in his own pool of blood.
Both sides must stop this maddness!
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| _sage_ |
Posted
on 28-May-02 12:40 PM
I also read the TimeAsia article and many like that, and many accounts in the AP and Reuters and Nepalnews.com and the New York Times and Washington Post, about the Maobadi use of human shields and taking of one person from each family for their army, etc. All of these things are horrible and unpardonable, even if they use they justification that it is a "class war" (which it is). They are still unpardonable crimes.
I am sure that there have been horrible abuses of power by the Maobadi, as by the police. In war, things will happen, and not everything is perfect. This is what the Nepali government says too.
But the problem for me is to get accurate information about what is the pattern, not the exception. Many people probably don't agree with this, but I think the mainstream media is heavily biased in favor of the government. I have experience such bias firsthand in situations of protests where the media portrays the protestors as ignorant party-goers who don't even know what they are protesting, and also if there is one window broken (perhaps even by a police agent provocateur -- i.e. dressed as a protestor) then they will show this one window breaking 10,000 times and they will not show the other 40000 protestors with intelligent signs. I have been to protests like this and then seen the news completely misrepresent it. And this is in a simple case of a protest. In the case of the conflict in Nepal, I can imagine that the war of information is much more complicated. I can imagine that the army sometimes has dressed as Maobadi (as such has been reported by Scott Baldauf in the Christian Science Monitor) and committed crimes in their name, maybe the bus bombing in which the young girl was killed and several other innocent people. This is possible. I am not saying it is happening, but what is to say it is not happening? What is to say we hear the truth when the news stories say "... the army says"? The U.S. government hires P.R. professionals to put "spin" on conflicts and to write the news stories, and even plants some people as reporters for news agencies to write the stories or communicate with the Pentagon and insert spin. So these things happen.
So, when I view the news, I am always wondering if the horrible atrocities described actually happened like they say, and if it was not an "agent provocateur" -- these techniques are as old as there have been rulers and ruled...
And perhaps people repeat "I am not a Maobadi" because people automatically assume the mindframe "You are with us or you are against us" -- when it is possible to be with neither side. This is not like a soccer game. There are interests on each side and maybe they do not match your own interests. Why is it necessary to support a government blindly, why not support the good things it does and be critical of the bad things it does? Uncritical acceptance of power and lack of transparency leads to corruption -- as they say, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don't think the powers we are talking about are transparent at all. We have no way of knowing what is really happening, and what the palace and Deuba and Bush have all said to each other.
Just some thoughts. I don't mean to offend anybody, nor to force my views of the media on other people. I am just speaking from my own thoughts.
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| huh |
Posted
on 28-May-02 12:55 PM
If you do not nothing and only say that many people do not believe what mainstream medias write? then why not go yourself there to find out who are suffering and in which way in a unbiased manner????????????????????????????????
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| huh |
Posted
on 28-May-02 01:00 PM
sage, I am visiting your websites regularly so that I could know enough about your views. THANKS for maintaining your own website. I will be there to know anything new about your political opinions, thanks again.
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| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 28-May-02 02:17 PM
It is just my thought - we must have to find out the truth from there what exatly going on at maoist infested area. Is there anybody (nepali) who is visiting to Nepal or who live close to western side or that area? I mean, we just need to find out what exactly going on over there. I know there is very dangerous and life risky now a day especially for nepalese people. However, we need to visit at least close area and talk to villagers to find out what exatly going on (statistics of boths side). We need someone who has good gut and can able to keep away from both side and perform the job.
I've been thinking about to do myself. Unfortunately, still I won't be able to do this because of INS process has not been complete yet.
Can we look around somebody can perform this??? It is just my thought, however, can isolate this if necessary and becomes too risky.
- maha
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-May-02 06:48 PM
Sage wrote: I can imagine that the army sometimes has dressed as Maobadi (as such has been reported by Scott Baldauf in the Christian Science Monitor) and committed crimes in their name, maybe the bus bombing in which the young girl was killed and several other innocent people. This is possible. I am not saying it is happening, but what is to say it is not happening?
--
Guys,
this sentence written by Sage clearly unmask who he is.
If you borrow his sentence " I am not saying it is happening, but what is to say it is not happening? ", what can not you say against him.
Sage is:
1. Bullshit
2. Thug
3. Bastard
4. Son of Bitch
5. ....
What is to say he is do not pose these things?
Sage, shame on you for writing those lines. Bottom line
is that you need proof to prove some thing you write against
someone. If we borrow your sentence blindly, can you prove
you are not Bullshit, Thus, Bastard and son of Bitch. Prove
that you are not.
|
| Sage |
Posted
on 28-May-02 08:26 PM
I have been thinking of this very much, Mahamurkha, and thinking whether it would be possible for me to be in a rural area as an "international observer". As a US citizen it would make it undesirable for the RNA to kill me, seeing as they are getting so much aid from the US at this point. However, the RNA uses long-range firing and night firing from helicopters for their operations, and they don't differentiate among people at such long range. However what is also to say that the Maoists would not take a US citizen hostage, in light of the US giving aid? It is a risky business in any case.
However there are two organizations that may have some leads in what is actually happening - the International Red Cross of Nepal and INSEC Nepal. The Red Cross has maintained neutrality, although an ambulance of theirs was bombed by the Maoists (but was the bomb meant for the ambulance?) -- however, in other cases the Maoists have not targetted the Red Cross, and when Red Cross equipment was in a VDC office, in one case the Maoists removed that equipment before destroying the office. They have neutrality and recognition of their symbol and have been able to operate so far in Maoist controlled areas.
There is also INSEC-Nepal which has been able to maintain neutrality in the eyes of both the government and Maoists at least until a few months ago, I think. If anyone knows differently, please say so. But now the website is not working. It is www.insec-nepal.com if anyone else can access it. However, before it stopped working, I downloaded all the documents they had, including lists of incidents committed by both Maoists and government forces. They appear to be very bad on both sides. (They are large, like 1.7 MB Word Docs if anyone wants them.) However, they don't have in-depth descriptions of incidents, only summaries. INSEC has people in each district who report to the Kathmandu office regularly. At least they did until December. I don't know what their status is now.
About the statement about security forces impersonating Maoists -- this is in the Christian Science Monitor May 8 story by Scott Baldauf, who is their bureau chief for South Asia, and who I don't think is likely to be lying, and is a pretty good reporter. However, it is possible his information is bad. It is based on reports by villagers after an incident. You can read the story yourself and decide for yourself. It describes that the security forces came into a village with red stars attached to their fatigues with velcro and gave the lal salaam to villagers and whoever responded with the salute were shot. If this is true, then it is very sad to me, and is clearly a violation of every international agreement on warfare, and it is also sad because the villagers subjected to this are caught between two sides demanding loyalty at gunpoint. If this is true, then it is also in the realm of possibility that the army has impersonated Maoists at other times. I tend to overstate things and it gets me in trouble. I should not have suggested the army could have bombed a bus, for it is only speculation of what is possible and I should keep that to myself, perhaps. However, it would not be the first time that a government has manufactured an incident. The US did the same with the Gulf of Tonkin to get the US public to support escalation in Vietnam, and there are other known examples. I am sorry to offend anyone.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-May-02 08:30 PM
The case of chitawan's bus fired to ash, where a child was
burned to death, was even mentioned by BRB, and he said
it was mistake. (whether its deliberate or mistake is different
issue).
But, Sage tries to portray the things differently and he want to
bring negative image against Army through his writings and
imagination "Why not?". You look and refer to all those
bullshit reports that suit your need, but, you reject those
AP, Reuters ...CNN, because they do not help your purpose.
Here we can see you double standard. You are solely trying
to portray Govt. as sole villian and the all deaths are from
Govt. side. From the lines you wrote in last posting that I
pointed out, clearly unmask who the hell you are in this forum
who is trying to illude that he is working for Nepali peoples.
Peoples should know him by now. This guy will come and
say "YOu are wrong.". I want to know where am I wrong?
How am I wrong? He seems to be religious cult sent to so
sympathy over Maoists, and once the Maoist ceasefire,
he can use his all past propaganda, to give them settler
and make them turn into his religious settler. He seems to
be working in long term plan, to catch the poors when
war end. Sage, I have now started look you differently:
You are a religious cult, who is working in long term plan
to attract peoples in your cult membership. It will need
time to prove I am wrong. Sage will like many other religious
cults e.g. OM Shinrikyou, claim that he is not like that,
at the end of day, we will see him. Like him there are many
working towards this long term game plan. Who can prove that
this guy is not affiliated to any religious organization and
whose real goal is different from what he tries to portray
in these few postings.
HG
HG
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-May-02 08:34 PM
Sage wrote: I have been thinking of this very much, Mahamurkha, and thinking whether it would be possible for me to be in a rural area as an "international observer".
By now peopels have realized who you are? What your intentions
are. you are behind money. In the name of international observer,
I am sure you are going to propogate some other thing, and I smell
it religious propaganda that you will be interested to get money from.
Because there are many religious organization they pay to peoples
like you, in war zones, because in war peoples are frustrated and
they can be easily turned into your religious faith. I would like to
see which cult organization you will work for?
HG
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-May-02 08:35 PM
Sage wrote: I have been thinking of this very much, Mahamurkha, and thinking whether it would be possible for me to be in a rural area as an "international observer".
By now peopels have realized who you are? What your intentions
are. you are behind money. In the name of international observer,
I am sure you are going to propogate some other thing, and I smell
it religious propaganda that you will be interested to get money from.
Because there are many religious organization they pay to peoples
like you, in war zones, because in war peoples are frustrated and
they can be easily turned into your religious faith. I would like to
see which cult organization you will work for?
HG
|
| HUH |
Posted
on 29-May-02 12:00 AM
sage always refered that his only true source of information is '"christian science monitor" ? how and why can he always refere only one newspaper "christian science monitor' ? is 'christian science monitor' is the only one true information source can be believed in this world ?
he is saying that there is one human right organization called INSEC. I don't think we have to it through you. INSEC which is operated by sushil pyakurel, subodh raj pyakural, ... we know what kind of people they are and their political affiliation.
sage, it's not necessary to teach us about nepali human right organizations, we as a nepali citizen are also closely monitoring their activities whether it is INSEC or CWIN or HURPEC or JANA SAROKAR ABHIYAN or something else ? Don't think people in this board are so stupid that you have to inform us about INSEC also.
|
| AI Report |
Posted
on 29-May-02 02:10 AM
It seems both sides are involved in foul play. Amnesty International to my best knowledge is an independent organization.
From Kantipuronline:
Nepal human rights situation worsens: Amnesty Int’l report
KOL Report
KATHMANDU, May 29 - Amnesty International, the London-based human rights watchdog has shown serious concern over the human rights situation in Nepal, which “deteriorated sharply after the imposition of emergency.”
The AI said in its annual report that human rights situation in Nepal deteriorated sharply following the break of cease-fire and the imposition of emergency in November last year. “Impunity remained a concern,” it said.
Execution-style killings, hostage-taking and torture were used by the Maoist rebels last year in their battle to eliminate constitutional monarchy, Amnesty International (AI) said in its 2001 report released here Tuesday.
The AI also complained of “unlawful killings”, “disappearances”, “torture” and “arbitrary arrest and detention” by the police and army in the context of “People’s War” declared by the Maoists in 1996.
The report accused army of killing civilians during “cordon and search” operations and shootings from helicopters at alleged Maoists. “Despite some isolated cases to provide redress to victims of human rights violations, official accountability was widely lacking,” the AI said.
The report cited killings of 11 farmers by an army patrol in November 28 at Bargadi in Dang district. “Though some of them might have been sympathisers of Maoists, eyewitnesses claimed that none of them were armed and that soldiers deliberately shot them,” report stated.
The AI was concerned that more than 5,000 people, including 30 journalists, were arrested and held in unacknowledged detention under the “Terrorist and Disruptive Activities (Prevention and Control) Ordinance (TADO). (yo)
|
| We are in War |
Posted
on 29-May-02 06:06 AM
Nepal is in War. There will be no war if the police/army lays down their arms and only let maobadi do the killings. In a war there will be casualties, this is part of the game.
Caution to all the readers, the communists hide behind "human rights". It is their shield and no one can touch them..
|
| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 29-May-02 12:32 PM
Sage wrote: I can imagine that the army sometimes has dressed as Maobadi.
YES. I do strongly agree on this quote because I do have a PROOF. I have a guest, living in my apt since a couple of week, who came for INGO training in USA. She is pure Newar live in Kathmandu and working for NGO. She went to field whereas Maoist affected areas to handover the project they had completed. Even they had fear of maobadi they had to organize the ceremony and handover the project because of completion of project and funded over. During of handover ceremony to VDC. They had encounters many an Army during that period, they also knew there were many Maoist presences in the mass too. They saw Army and Maoist both in uniforms, pretty much not distiguishable if you look at the first time or who has no familiar with the clothes. However, they did not bother to distinguish their cloths nor army and maobadi. But they did finish up their job and back to Kathmandu as quick as they can because of risky. You guys can ask, may be, she is maobadi? Could be follower of Maobadi? May be supporting … this and that?
Well, my final point is, Army could wear Maoist’s cloth to find out and eliminate maoist. Why it can’t be? It could be their strategies? Who knows? And DON”T put another question saying – I am supporting Maoist or I am a Maoist. I am just presenting the truth.
|
| huh |
Posted
on 29-May-02 12:46 PM
true face of sage:
He is related to a religious fundamentalist group
in GOOGLE search: appears such informations.
... religious fundamentalist group. Nepal Solidarity Network: http://nepalsolidarity.net/.
nepalsolidarity.net. add your own comments.
twincities.indymedia.org/ front.php3?article_id=5452&group=webcast - 17k - 28 May 2002 - Cached
more about sage
Boston Independent Media Center
Address:
Boston IMC
240B Elm St.
Somerville, MA 02144
Phone:
617-623-8IMC (8462)
Directions:
By T:
-- Take the Red line to Davis Square.
-- Come out of the turnstyles and make a right.
-- At the street, make a right.
-- Go 2 1/2 blocks to 240B Elm Street (just past the dunkin donuts).
-- Head downstairs to the door labeled IMC.
By Car:
-- Please use an online map
Office Hours:
Monday: 7pm-9pm
Tuesday: 6pm-9pm
Wednesday: 6pm-9pm
|
| mahamurkha |
Posted
on 29-May-02 07:14 PM
Did anybody watch BBC News today?
It was very very scary scenes from Nepal. I guess, most of you guys already read the news, over 150 Maoist were killed in Rolpa. BBC reported from the site (Rolpa), most of maoist were without any uniform, however, they found tons of arms/ammunition in the site. BBC was saying, Maoists are using those killed maoist/civilians?? as human shield for them. They didnot confirmed whether all of them were maoist or civilians. Army were carrying and moving about over 140 bodies so far.
It was very SAD days and time for the country. That's why I hate "Rajnity" -Politics. Politics make people worse than "Yamraj" and making HELL for the country.
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| Remember the cause |
Posted
on 30-May-02 08:14 PM
You all need to foucs on what the cause is rather than the effect.
The current killings were started by the maobadis not by the government.
The maobadis have done major killings not the militery.
I agree that there are casualties caused by the militery, I support and applaude their effort to eradicate the maobadis.
|
| Sage |
Posted
on 30-May-02 10:33 PM
Here is the editorial in today's Kathmandu Post, which I found insightful. It seems to me the tone of the media has been starting to change in the last week. Does it seem that way to anyone else?
About the question raised in the last post, of "who started the violence", do the words "Operation Romeo" and "Kilo Sera II" ring a bell? It is more complex than just "the goverment started it" but it is also more complex than "the maobadi started it", and by looking at a more complex history, and the history of previous oppositional politics in Nepal, I suggest that we can better see a path to peace.
====
Human rights abuse
Human rights organisations have, time and again, expressed their concern over the gross abuse of human rights in Nepal, both by the government and the Maoists. The Amnesty International had only to add more gloom and less hope in its annual report-2002 released on Tuesday. The continued Maoist violence, worst forms of torture and annihilation tactic adopted by the Maoists as the means to achieve their ‘political goal’, the state’s equally repressive retaliatory measure and the prolonged state of emergency have further aggravated the situation in which human rights becomes the only casualty. Suspension of fundamental and civil rights, curtailment of the judiciary’s powers to hold free and fair trial substantially erode the state’s commitment towards the rule of law.
The total toll in the armed conflict between the state and the Maoists that has touched the five thousand mark, with nearly half of it during the past six months alone, shows the degree of fury introduced in the feud with more flagrant misuse of human rights. As both government and Maoists lack an institutional mechanism for the identification and the redressal of such abuses, it is only natural that the international human rights groups take up the issue with the heightened concern. The Report 2002 has also tried to draw the government attention over the continued detention of more than 30 journalists and human rights activists in prison without an opportunity for a free and fair trial.
Human rights abuse is not specific to Nepal alone. Of the 135 countries whose human rights records were reviewed by the Amnesty International, the abuse in other forms have been recorded in most countries. But that hardly justifies the state of human rights situation in this country. In fact, the government’s insensitivity on the issue becomes apparent for its failure to come out with the report of action taken against such abuses wherever they have been pointed out in the past.
Similarly, the Maoists, who rightfully raised the human rights issues when atrocities were committed by the government earlier, have become more repressive in terms of torturing political opponents in the worst possible manner, and taking their lives cruelly. The Maoists’ growing apathy towards human rights, their fast transformation into a criminal outfit and scant regards for the international and human rights organisations to stop annihilation make the future human rights scenario even bleaker. The Amnesty report gives gory pictures of how security forces have clandestinely killed and tortured civilians, and how the Maoists butchered the unarmed policemen even after their surrender.
The record of the high-level committee, appointed by the government to look into abuses committed by the security forces, will be carefully scrutinised by the human rights bodies and their sincerity or lack of it, will go a long way in projecting Nepal’s human rights commitment in future. And for the Maoists, their continued brutality against the opponents and total lack of respect for human rights will catalyse the process of its marginalisation. The amnesty report is a right warning to both.
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| huh |
Posted
on 30-May-02 11:44 PM
hey, didn't you say mainstream newspapers in nepal are biased. then why are you refering editorial of one of them? strange !!!!!!!!!
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 12:08 AM
Huh,
When it fulfils the purpose, then, its not biased. "Biased"
was used by Sage earlier to refer that those newspapers,
CNN, BBC, ... , because their news-clips do not support his
purpose, and there, Sage used to trust only CS Monitor,
now TKP... slowly he will come to sail in our boat. I bait.
HG
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| okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 10:16 AM
Huh/Hahoo,
You guys are making yourself jokers if you are arguing that the mainstream papers in Nepal are not biased.
Perhaps you do not understand the meaning of ‘bias’.
Bias often comes in a subtle way, indirectly, in tone, in emphasis, in clever selection or emphasis on the part of the story. Sage has explained it to you on several occasions.
If you look at the report of AI and the TKP’s news on it (May 29), you can see some major incident highlighting the government’s human rights abuse is ignored. Look at this editorial you are discussing- the choice of the words- ‘killing’ for what the security forces have done and ‘butchering’ for what Maobadis have done.
The news and the editorial was intended to give impression of the ‘unbiasness’ of TKP. Even here, you can smell the smell. There is no strong criticism of the government. Forget about other less obvious things.
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| manashalu |
Posted
on 31-May-02 10:20 AM
okil, first read all of sage's postings and then comment.
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| Okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 10:58 AM
I have read my dear. I have been also reading all the papers from Nepal on a daily basis. But what was the question ?
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| manashalu |
Posted
on 31-May-02 12:04 PM
'>...But what was the question ?'
Find out by yourself !
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| Okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 12:38 PM
Let me try.
The question was- does Sage give full and unconditional support to the violence of Maoist ?
Answer: NO.
Q. Does Sage see Maoist rebellion as a part of rebellion of suppressed class against the ruling class represented by people with power and money ?
A. Yes. But who does not see it as it ? The very prime minister Sher Bahadur Deuba had identified the root cause of the Maoists insurgency as poverty, social injustices and corruption of the ruling class. Today he is fighting not because some magic miraculously changed all that, but because they are threatening the power he enjoys and the power he (his class) gets protection from.
Q. Does Sage have substance in his understanding of the politics as the power game of poor and rich ?
A. Yes.
Q. Are these gang of Hahoo/Huh discussing about ideas ?
A. No.
Q. Is sajha a real state of the people supporting the ruling class ?
A. See, finally I found out the question.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 06:26 PM
Okil: '>...But what was the question ?'
Manashalu: Find out by yourself !
Intelligent answer by Manashalu. It is really entertaining and also praiseworthy answer. Short and sweet. I am not flatter Manashalu, but, appreciating him/her for fine selection of answer.
HG
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 06:30 PM
In court, do wokil ask questions and then, they answer themselves, or the witness has to answer? I am sure if you hire this Okil, you will lose your case. You can his question and answer. Poor Okil. Bihar bata lyayeko hola certificate : Okil Bidya ko.
Instead of Okil, your ability gives wrong message to the clients of real Okils, I suggest you to change it to FaFoo!Okil.
HG
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| Fan of Haoo Guru |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 01:08 PM
HG,
I really like the way you come accross. Please keep it coming...
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 02-Jun-02 10:50 AM
Hey MD Fan,
Sachikai timi yasto fan bhayera mero defend gareko. What can be more
pleasure than this. Fan ko feedback ta atmasath garnu parcha ankha
chimlera. Dhanyabad.
Aru Pachi.
Ooooohi,
Hahoo!Guru
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 02-Jun-02 10:55 AM
Tyo Bihari 500 rupiya ma Certificate kini bhako Okil kata go, louna ho.
Nepal ko certificate ko khoj talasi bhe pachi, afulai Political Refugee
"Ma maobadi samarthak bhako le Nepal sarakar le lakhetera aako bhani
Refugee status ma basna aru sakkali okil, tara garchan nakkali kaam kaha
gai nakkali lai sakkali HO INA KURA SACHO HO. Bhani kag jat milaudai chha
ki ke ho. Yaso dristi deo ta la America ka mitra haru". Bholi Green card
ko dhwas diyera, 40,000$ 5 barsha ma bujhaune gari nakkali kaam ma
fasaula hai tyo FaFoo!Okil le.
HG
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| Fafoo.Okil |
Posted
on 02-Jun-02 03:06 PM
OK hahoo, sometimes you are good for a cheap entertainment. Thanx for the name FaFoo, as cute as that of yourself. Anyway, I found some errors in your sentences.
You wrote: ...Ma maobadi samarthak bhako le Nepal sarakar le lakhetera....
Nepal Sarakar ? I have never heard of that. I have memorized every dhara of the constitution of the kingdom of Nepal (Okil jo hun ma). But I have never come across such a term or a concept. ‘Nepal sarakar’ does not exist in the constitution. There is only ‘Sri5 ko sarakar’ !!!
Then, Shri5 ko sarakar le Maobadi samarthak lai lakheti raheko chaina, baru gaule ko ghar ghar ma pasera bhatatatatatatatatata.. bhatatatatata.. bhatatatatatatatata.... pariraheko chha. I hope you read the report of the Amnesty International. Some samarthaks are turtured and killed in the police custody. Don’t tell me you have never heard the name ‘Kanchha Maharjan’. By the way, it was interesting to see that, that name was never discussed in sajha.com. Interesting. Hmmm...
Fafoo!Okil
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| Sage |
Posted
on 06-Jun-02 09:59 AM
For Sajha.com people who are in the United States, if you are concerned about the human rights situation in Nepal, then now is the time to contact Senators, and tell them that U.S. aid should depend on the Nepali government observing human rights standards.
The bill that appropriates the money that Bush promised to Deuba is currently being debated in the Senate. The Senate bill is called S.2551 ("2002 Supplemental Appropriations Act for Further Recovery From and Response To Terrorist Attacks on the United States") and its current status is "Placed on Calendar in the Senate". You can look it up on http://thomas.loc.gov . The section of the bill relating to Nepal is called "FOREIGN MILITARY FINANCING PROGRAM".
The Nepal specialist at Amnesty International has recommended contacting your Senators right now and conveying to them the following points:
Talking Points
-ask to speak with the foreign policy aide, or the staffer that deals with human rights issues.
-say that you are a constituent and are calling to urge that when the Senator votes on the Emergency supplemental for military aid to Nepal that he/she stress that any aid be accompanied by conditions to protect the human rights of the Nepalese people.
-Amnesty International has documented grave human rights abuses committed by Nepalese Security Forces including unlawful killings, disappearances, torture, and arbitrary arrest and detention. The Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) has also been implicated in widespread human rights violations. Given the poor human rights record of the Nepalese security forces, the US Government must demand that the Government of Nepal take specific steps to protect human rights.
- The US Govt should not provide arms unless it can be reasonably demonstrated that these arms will not be used to commit serious human rights violations.
-The Senator should demand that the Government of Nepal take steps to end impunity by prosecuting security forces that have committed human rights abuses.
-The Senator should demand that the Government of Nepal strengthen the National Human Rights Commission.
- The US Govt needs to ensure that any aid given to the Nepalese Govt doesn't further exacerbate the already dangerous human rights situation.
I have made this web page with more information about contacting your senators:
http://vm.uconn.edu/~ser00003/nepal_l.html
I know that not everybody agrees with me. If you disagree, then just ignore this message please. But I am very concerned with the situation in Nepal, and arrest and killings of innocent people. We cannot directly influence the actions of the Maoists, but we can affect the actions of the Nepali government. However, I think that if the Nepali government shows more respect for human rights and lives of innocent people, then the Maoists will also. I think that the government brutality was a main cause of many people becoming Maoists in the first place. When your parents or friends are killed by the government, you are not going to like the government very much. You will have a lot of latent anger ready to be expressed. So now is the time to stop the cycle of violence.
- Sage
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| Sage |
Posted
on 06-Jun-02 10:28 AM
Here is an AP story which disturbs me very much. I suspected repression of journalists but nothing on this scale.
Rights Group: Nepal Journalists Tortured Associated Press 6 June 2002
KATMANDU, Nepal (AP) - Some journalists who have written about rebels trying to overthrow the government in Nepal have been tortured after illegal arrests under emergency rule, a New York-based media rights group said Thursday.
"We are alarmed by the arrest of journalists in Nepal who are tortured, blindfolded and even threatened with death while in custody," said Josh Friedman of the Committee to Protect Journalists at a news conference. "This has no place in a democracy like Nepal."
Members of the advocacy group spent two weeks visiting journalists in Nepal who have been detained by the authorities, and they also spoke to others worried about press freedoms.
After the guerrillas broke a cease-fire in November and resumed attacks on government forces, Nepal imposed emergency rule that suspended constitutional guarantees of free expression and prohibitions against prior restraint.
More than 100 journalists have been detained by the police and two dozen are still in custody, according to the Federation of Nepalese Journalists, an umbrella group of Nepalese media organizations.
"We met many journalists who had been detained and discovered that there was a pattern of abuse suggesting there was an order from the top authorities to torture journalists in detention," said Kavita Menon, also with the journalists' protection group.
"The journalists' arrests have created a climate of fear, and self-censorship is widespread. Journalists described being literally abducted by security forces and held incommunicado, without charge," the group said.
A government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said authorities arrest only rebels and their supporters. The official refused to discuss specific allegations.
The government has warned that those found guilty of aiding acts of terrorism can face life in prison.
The Paris-based Reporters Without Borders recently called Nepal the largest jail for journalists in the world.
Police say some journalists have been arrested on suspicion of helping the rebels, who have fought since 1996 to replace
Nepal's constitutional monarchy with a communist state. More than 3,500 people have died in the fighting.
Authorities said the journalists have published fabricated reports and false stories intended to spread rumors against the security agencies.
On the Net: Committee to Protect Journalists Web site, http://www.cpj.org
AP via Yahoo:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020606/ap_on_re_as/nepal_journalists_tortured_2
and http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020606/ap_wo_en_po/nepal_journalists_tortured_1
[People may also complain that sometimes I accept the media (such as the report by the Christian Science Monitor's Scott Baldauf) and other times I accuse it of having bias. Well, this is true. There is an inherent bias, but sometimes a useful story gets on the AP or Reuters. It may not be printed in the Washington Post or New York Times, but you can access it on the internet. And anyway, what I am talking about is a general pattern, not complete censorship. -sage]
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| Hillside Report writer |
Posted
on 13-Jun-02 10:21 PM
This is true that " You will get killed by maoist Revolutionaries, if you did any miss deed like corruption, girl traffikking, drug traffikking, any blackmail, kill innocent people, involve in robbery, theft, gamble etc...."
But if you are clean people, they even don't look at you. They just pass through you. That's way all international Reporter go their place, talk with them and come back.
Maoist are not diying for killing innocent people. They are not terrorist. They are agianst the terrorist who did destroy Nepal, Nepali and their future.
" Freedom is not free" someone have to give their lives. Without ARMs revolution in nepal context, true Freedom, right, justice and equality is immpossible.........
- Hazal
(Poland)
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| Communist? |
Posted
on 13-Jun-02 11:56 PM
What do you know about Nepal or Nepali people?? Maobadi is taking the country to the dark ages and you call this is necessary. I really applaud your intelligence (which you seem to have little) you should learn about the people and know that communism has no place in the current world context.
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| Goverment kill Journalist |
Posted
on 26-Jun-02 11:08 AM
The Federation of Nepalese Journalists has called on the government to give details about the condition of a jailed newspaper editor.
The group's president Taranath Dahal made the demand after newspaper reports suggested that Krishna Sen, the editor of a pro-Maoist newspaper Janadisha, had died after being tortured.
The Nepalese authorities have yet to comment on the reports.
Nepalese journalists have accused the authorities of tightening restrictions on the press, and say journalists have been harassed -- and in some cases arrested or tortured -- since a state of emergency was declared last November.
From the newsroom of the BBC World Service
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_2067000/2067869.stm
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| Journalist |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 11:48 AM
Shock International journalist organization from Nepal government's criminal behaviors.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_2069000/2069303.stm
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| BBC report say |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 11:45 AM
Nepal journalists boycott government
Journalists in Nepal have begun a boycott of all government functions in protest at restrictions on press freedom.
The Nepalese Journalists' Federation has also called for a black-out of news and pictures of the prime minister, his cabinet and other government officials.
The boycott follows allegations that police tortured to death a left-wing editor, Krishna Sen of the Janadisha newspaper.
The government has said Krishna Sen is a terrorist leader who is not dead, but has gone into hiding. Correspondents say media restrictions were tightened last year after the government imposed a state of emergency to tackle the long-running Maoist insurgency.
From the newsroom of the BBC World Service:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_2131000/2131716.stm
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