| Username |
Post |
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 01:49 AM
Hey guys go and read Moda Nath Prasrit's article on
Kantipur. He proved himself idiot. He compares Hitler
and Krishna as same. Peoples call him a great intelligent,
but, how much idiot is he? He even does not differentiate
beteen Krishna in Mahabharat and Hitler in 2nd world.
He does not know how to differentiate things. Its sad
that peoples call him great writer and politician. He
is idiot, non-sense, does not know the difference between
evil and good.
HG
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 31-May-02 05:30 AM
Hahoo-ji
As you well know, one realization one makes quickly about many so-called intellectuals (of whatever political affiliation) in Nepal is this.
These people know a lot of facts about this and that.
They know a lot of information about this and that.
But alas, there, their expertise ends.
And ends abruptly.
So much so that I, for one, have decided that to be an intellectual in Nepal ( the kind who publishes ostensibly oh-so-serious and stuffy essays in Kantipur and so on) and among Nepali communities is to know a lot of facts, information and data that your readers don't know . . . and simply intimidate them by being, well, no more than an advanced player of "trivia pursuit".
That's because what these intellectuals -- though rich in information and
data --often seem to lack is a
coherent CONCEPTUAL framework
to PROCESS, to refine and to make use of
those facts and information to come up with their own convincing
ANALYSES about anything -- whether about the Maoist war, about
democracy or whatever.
That is why, to give you one example, 12 years after the Bhutanese
refugee crisis erupted here, we still do NOT have a single Nepali expert of, say
Refugee Studies in Nepal, while it has become such a 'sexy' sub-discipline
all over the world -- attracting top talents and lots of money.
That is why, to give you another example, almost 7 years after the birth of jungle-based Maoism in Nepal, there is NOT a scholar here we can turn to for insightful, non-cliched analyses, and assorted journalists -- regardless of their various
faults -- remain our best analysts.
And on and on.
One tragedy of Nepal's intellectual history seems to be that we
equate knowing something with understanding that something, when in truth
just because you know something does not mean that you also understand
it.
Prasit of UML -- being a pundit -- surely knows a lot of trivia, details, facts
and information about this and that.
But as his that essay has shown, he seems not to have learnt the fine and subtle art of organizing his facts and information in a coherent manner to come up with
a conceptual framework to make his points in a convincing manner.
In that, he well represents most politically-motivated intellectuals, and is the norm and not an exception.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| chirag |
Posted
on 31-May-02 07:22 AM
What he compared is the similarities between the way Krishna and Hitler faced their deaths, thats all.
Why all these fuss.
Anyway a monotonous expression is not that catchy.
White is white! We have to accept it.
|
| lalupate |
Posted
on 31-May-02 09:12 AM
does anyone have a link to this article by Prasit?
|
| manashalu |
Posted
on 31-May-02 09:18 AM
Kathmandu, Jestha 17, 2059 (Friday May 31, 2002 )
kantipur daily/opinion/'kangressko gharjhagda ra yadubanshi sangram'/
|
| Okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 10:54 AM
That article by Modanath makes a fine reading. What's your problem ? Try to write better than that yourself. Otherwise stop criticizing. Modanath knows and understands what he is writing and the readers too understand what he is writing. If you demand more from him, fine. But calling him an idiot by Hahoo and silently saying yes by Ashu. C'mon.....
|
| manashalu |
Posted
on 31-May-02 11:22 AM
okil in 05-30-02
Okil ID: 3309171 Posted on 05-30-02 3:35 PM Reply | Notify Me
let me hurl an Ashu’s grinade at these silly attackers of Sage. Whenever some anonymous silly sajha visitors attacked Ashu, he used to challenge them to come with their real identity and proof for everything on the table. He used to say, my name is Ashu Tiwari and I do so and so, what is yours and what do you do, sir ? All those silly, jealous, foolish posters chup !
Okil in 05-31-02
Okil ID: 3309171 Posted on 05-31-02 10:54 AM Reply | Notify Me
That article by Modanath makes a fine reading. What's your problem ? ..... But calling him an idiot by Hahoo and silently saying yes by Ashu. C'mon.....
what a funny !!!
|
| anyol |
Posted
on 31-May-02 11:27 AM
This is the real situation of Nepal, Who ever tells the truth, he/she will be idiot, non-sense..............? Aafu lai ke thannu bha Hahooguru jee?
|
| Okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 01:10 PM
Manashalu- "What a funny !!!"
What's funny ? Did I say everything Ashu says must always be right ?
It is really funny how Nepalis think that you have to support everything ONE says.
No wonder Nepal is polarizing into two poles both of which are half right half wrong.
The misfortune of Nepal is that Nepali never learned to think rationally. All, whether illetarate or educated, have slave mentality.
That's not funny
|
| suna |
Posted
on 31-May-02 01:23 PM
Manashlu
You couldn't be more wrong.
When Ashu said that "My name is Ashutosh Tiwari and I am proclaiming to the world that this is me and what is your name.Come out and be brave and tell me yours so I can treat you like a human being and not an anonymous poster", many of us didn't want to NOT BECAUSE we were shut up by him but because many of us are female posters who DID NOT WANT STALKERS in their lives PLUS the male half of our society (I know I know I'm generalizing) has yet to learn how to respect women and not slander their personal lives in public. THATS WHY!
NOW more to the point as you are meandering....(I've nothing to add to this thread)
|
| Okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 01:27 PM
Interesting. The same issue that has Moda Nath's article also has another one by Dhrub Neupane about 'Param Tapaswini Mai Hajoor' whatever. Neupane writes when Mai Hajoor was commiting suicide by starvation, the monkeys and birds in that area was staring at Mai Hajoor with sadness.
Hahoo did not find that article foolish. Instead he found Moda Nath's article foolish.
Where are we heading ? To the dark age ?
http://www.kantipuronline.com/kantipur_html/kantipur_news4.htm#6
|
| SVGMV |
Posted
on 31-May-02 02:31 PM
OKIL WROTE,
"What's funny ? Did I say everything Ashu says must always be right ?
It is really funny how Nepalis think that you have to support everything ONE says.
No wonder Nepal is polarizing into two poles both of which are half right half wrong.
The misfortune of Nepal is that Nepali never learned to think rationally. All, whether illetarate or educated, have slave mentality.
That's not funny "
Okil-ji,
Are you a Nepali or not? When you write "It is really funny how Nepalis think that you have to support everything ONE says." who do you have in your mind? Does this sentence not encompass you as well? you remind me a father scolding his son, "kukkur ko chhauro...".
Also, "No wonder Nepal is polarizing into two poles both of which are half right half wrong. "
So, do you stand somewhere in the third pole or some undefiend territory? Also, it's interesting to note that you don't wonder by the fact that Nepal is polarizing into two poles both of which are half right half wrong. By the way what do you mean by polarizing and half right half wrong stuff? could you please enlight us?
"The misfortune of Nepal is that Nepali never learned to think rationally. All, whether illetarate or educated, have slave mentality. "
I guess you are the only exception, if you are a Nepali that is. Or is it like a brother scolding his brother as a "randi ko chhora"?
My point is: Please do not generalize. Just because someone else thinks differently don't call him/her irrational or of slave mentality. Why does everyone has to think the way you do?
About the article, I agree with you. Hahoo Guru's attacks on Prashrit is unwarranted. Also, why is Ashu leaning towards Hahoo Guru is not clear to me.
I am not an admirer of Prashrit. Not anymore. I have read some of his writings long before he became an MP and a minister. I was impressed then. But now when I know he lives in a durbur looking Gauthali Gund (his residence name) I wonder where this poor comrade got all the money from? I am disgusted. However, I don't see why is Hahoo calling him idiot and other stuff. His article is fine, to me.
|
| Okil |
Posted
on 31-May-02 03:48 PM
SVGMV,
Yes. When I say Nepali that includes myself. I am not a holier-than-thou guy.
Polarization of the country. I am surprised you are asking me to explain. I mean can we not see the two poles in the country right now ? North Pole- Status quo at any price. South Pole- Change with any cost.
I don’t believe in the third pole. That’s a false pole created by opportunists or cowards.
My one leg is in the north and the other in the south pole.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 05:50 PM
Chirag wrote: What he compared is the similarities between the way Krishna and Hitler faced their deaths, thats all. Why all these fuss.
---
You can not compare the death of evil Hitler with Krishna who is different from the evil. If you can not understand this, I feel pity for you. I feel sorry that peoples don't find the differences. You need to grow. Remember why NY Mayor (?) Guili...
rejected the money offered by the Arabian Prince? Because the prince did not know the right word at right time. It matters, when you put evil and good in same paragraph, and that can not acceptable in Modanath Prasrit's article. Either he don't know how to present things (as Ashu said) or he deliberately underestimated readers or he wrote it knowingly. That is derogatory comparision.
HG
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 06:02 PM
SVGMV wrote: you remind me a father scolding his son, "kukkur ko chhauro...".
---
Why "kukkur ko chhauro...". is used when a father is angry over his son?
Father says "you are not behaving as my great son, but, like a Kukkur ko chhauro",
and I wish you understand what you wrote. Why it is offensive, when I
say you SVGMV kutta? Will you not angry? Yes you will get angry, because
Kukkur is not comparable with you, I can not put you in the same rank as
Kukkur, similarly, Krishna can not be put in same paragraph (the way Prasrit put)
as Mr. MNP tried to misuse it. If you guys don't understand this much,
I really feel pity. Then, you are justifying all these gali galous where you
find derogatory stuffs in Nepal. How blind you guys are...? You should
grow up guys. Its useless to talk you guys. I probably stop here responding
your postings.
HG
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 06:02 PM
SVGMV wrote: you remind me a father scolding his son, "kukkur ko chhauro...".
---
Why "kukkur ko chhauro...". is used when a father is angry over his son?
Father says "you are not behaving as my great son, but, like a Kukkur ko chhauro",
and I wish you understand what you wrote. Why it is offensive, when I
say you SVGMV kutta? Will you not angry? Yes you will get angry, because
Kukkur is not comparable with you, I can not put you in the same rank as
Kukkur, similarly, Krishna can not be put in same paragraph (the way Prasrit put)
as Mr. MNP tried to misuse it. If you guys don't understand this much,
I really feel pity. Then, you are justifying all these gali galous where you
find derogatory stuffs in Nepal. How blind you guys are...? You should
grow up guys. Its useless to talk you guys. I probably stop here responding
your postings.
HG
|
| Voltaire |
Posted
on 31-May-02 07:46 PM
Mr HaGu,
My intuition tells me that you do not understand Nepali well.
First of all, Modnath is not saying Krishna and Hitler were the same. He is comparing a sacred being to Hitler. And remember, 'compare' does not always mean exploring the similarities. Yes, he is comparing but he is NOT saying they are the same. He is rather analyzing the two different scenarios. Comparing also means seeing the differences.
And remember, if you are after a person you can always see mistakes. No one is perfect. One thing that worries me is the fact that you are after a person (which means you will inevitably see his mistakes) and more that that you are pointing at a thing which is Not a Mistake. Please have patience to read the article again.
One person above wrote sthing like: Where are we heading? Darkness or what?
---Yes, we would soon reach the dark-zone if people like HaGu or Ashu were in the driving seat.
Ashu,
Why dont you write for some magazine or a paper? I am pretty sure I can come up with more loopholes in your articles than you have come up in Modnath's article (that is if I want). Dont just look at the nagative aspects, yo!
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 08:17 PM
Mr. Voltaire,
I still do not want Krishna be put in the same paragraph to justify something else. It is bottomline requirements. Remember how Gui... NY M. rejected the Arabian Prince's donation. Remember how Australian rejected Toyota's ad., remember how Moslems in Japan rejected yokohama tyre, remember how Moslem rejected Nike and Nike withdrew the shoes model . . . . ..... Yes, I am concerned with Prasrit's negligence. You have not understood this thing. Either you are negligence or you are too tolerant or you don't know the differences.
Thats my issue.
HG
|
| Voltaire |
Posted
on 31-May-02 09:20 PM
Hahoo Guru,
Yes, I am still in the process of discovering myself: I could be too tolerant. That's possible.And I think I know the 'difference' you are taking about.
My last question to you: you say,
"how Gui... NY M. rejected the Arabian Prince's donation. Remember how Australian rejected Toyota's ad., remember how Moslems in Japan rejected yokohama tyre, remember how Moslem rejected Nike and Nike withdrew the shoes model . . . . ..".
>>>Why do you think we should follow the trend? I think it is a subjective issue.For everthing, there could be someone like you who might come forward and say--this comparison should not be made because such comparisons have not been tolerated in the past. Wouldnt this act lead us to a space where there are no two things to compare?
Going slightly beyond the demarcations,...it seems to me that you do not want any good thing (here, Krishna) to be compared to a relatively evil thing (here,Hitler). Teso bhayo bhane ta...development process maa nayaa model laai purano model sanga compare garnai paaiyena (assuming the purano model has not worked well). Then how do you progress? I know my argument might appear to have digressed from the topic but one thing: if such comparisons are not tolerated, my friend, the world would be stagnant and the latest developments would have been a distant dream.
Take Care,
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 31-May-02 11:34 PM
Yaar Padhe lekhe ka manche lai dherai bhannu pardaiina. Aaa
garda alankar bujha. Moda Nath ko lekh ma Krishna lai hitler ko example ko paragraph ma rakhda tyaha Krishna lai different charitra ko rupama
present gareko chharalanga dekhincha. NY M. le pani tyahi karan le ho reject
gareko, Arabian Prince le bhanna man lageko kura Pa belama bhandi halou
bhan bhane, tara natija ke?
Yaha kun cheez mechanism ma similar bhanne kurako discussion hoina (MEro),
kun lai kaha rakhne bhanne thaha pauna jaruri thiyo, Moda nath lai.
So that, he does not hurt those who have different feeling on Hitler and
Krishna. Might be hitler was great hero for Modanath, I don't care, but,
for me Hitler is evil, and Krishna should not appear in that example in that
way. That is not tolerant to me. For peoples who have no feeling on Krishna,
probably, for them, Moda nath 's lekh is indifferent. But, Moda nath being
a leader of Nepal, where peoples have different place for Krishna in their
heart, will not tolerate his negligence or his deliberate misuse. We are not
talking here mathematics, and we are talking about FEELING.
When it comes to issues of feeling, it matters more how you write more than what
you write.
Bye
|
| chirag |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 03:57 AM
HG ji,
People have their own ways of understanding/analysing,
It is not always possible to visualize in a same way,
If so, then this thread wouldn't have arised, isn't it??
Why do we compare black with white?
It is because of their contrast!
.........................................
Hitler le sojhai maryo,
U evil bho,
Krishna le ghumayera maryo,
Karan u deuta ho,
Hitler lai dosh ayo,
Krishna sabai ko pyaro bho,
Marna ta Krishna le pani deceive gari gari marya ho ni, hoina ra???
Yestai ho HG ji, aphno aphno dristikon.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 04:28 AM
Chirag wrote : If so, then this thread wouldn't have arised, isn't it??
....
Yestai ho HG ji, aphno aphno dristikon.
----Tyahi dristikon ta diye ko ni. Afulai apach bhako le ta Sajha.com
though we are communicating all these stuffs. I mean lets not
accept just as it is when things are not acceptable to us. No one
have right to hurt us, and when someone tries, we also have right
to squash them back. Thats Newton's third rule.
Chirag wrote:
Why do we compare black with white?
It is because of their contrast!
.
.
.
But not always. There is another factor, that I wrote sometime
back, that does not allowe you so easily to compare BLACK and WHITE
anywhere anytime, you wish. The third factor though looks very
imaginary, but, that is valuable in living beings. Thats feeling.
Not everything can be digitized, and feeling of one can not be
compared always with others and as leader, as responsible citizen,
as an intellectual, you me or anyone must have to follow ethics
, moral and social values. Modnath, as ashu said knows things,
have data, but, he simply don't know how to present them. If he
was intelligent person, he should have avoided the use of these
persons in one paragraph.
HG
|
| pandit |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 04:47 AM
Hahoo guru jee,
Its too big a task for you (or other of your ilk for that matter) to comment on Mr. Prasit's piece of work or his inlectual standing. Prasit is more than a "pandit" or UML leader. He is one of the noted vedic scholars and literary personality in Nepal. When talked about Krishna and Hitler in his article, it would be gross simplication to interprete this in the way you are doing (its not your mistake of course, you do what you can do!). Yes, Mr. Prasit often presents an alternative interpretation of hindu mythological works, but only with rigourus logic and facts.
pandit
--------------------------------------------
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 05:25 AM
Ok, I was trying to say that Modnath was wrong in comparing the things
at least to me. He might have not have noticed the implication of (in my
perspective) of his use of those two persons in paragraph. I am not saying
that Modnath is idiot all the time, but, his use of those example in that
particular paragraph is the location where he was behaving as if an idiot.
(at least in my perspective).
Well, no one is perfect, and Modnath in writing so many articles, might have
made this mistake knowingly, unknowningly, or tried to use it purposely
knowing the weakness of readers: J lekhe pani huncha, kasle ke garna
sakcha malai ... aham-bhawana ....
Lets not forget that implication of his (as a big shot in Nepal) mistake,
will have more impact than a normal citizen, and he should be careful,
and this is my conclusion.
If "He is one of the noted vedic scholars and literary personality in Nepal",
then, he deserves to know what is my understanding on his article.
Great peoples are those who write the same thing, that readers will
not deviate what he means.
I wish that It should conclude my part in this thread, to avoid it become
"more--too--" boring to those who like Modnath prasrit from various angles.
HG
|
| xyz |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 03:56 PM
>>Great peoples are those who write the same thing, that readers will
>>not deviate what he means:
Mr. Hahooguru,
tell me what you understand from following piece of poem from a great 18 century poet John Don
"Go and get falling star
Get with the child a mandrek root"
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 06:44 PM
XYZ,
you tell me what that meant to you?
I don't have interest on those lines. World is big, search engine
says it has 1000......0 (~20 zeros) pages. So, I am interested
in reading the lines that interest you. My whole issue on raising
the question was about the thing that did not digest on my stomach.
I don't want to deviate from core issue. I guess you know
Ma-ha 's one time great hit line "Ho ina kura sacho ho". There should
be no full-stop in between "HO" and "ina". So, Modanath's use
of Krishna 's example was no problem if Hitler was not put in
the same line, but, that did not happen. It gave different
meaning to me. Lets not pick up " ina kura sacho ho" or
"Ho ina kura sacho ho". The author if he don't put full stop between
"HO" and "INa", then, its authors mistake, and we have right
to raise the questions. Whether it is negligence, deliberate
or by mistake (mistake happens even with great writers, probabilistically
it can not be zero all the time). I wanted to know Modnath's
intrusion of the example was either "negligence, or deliberate or by mistake "
That was my issue. I said Modnath being idiot in that particular paragraph,
was either he was very deliberate or unknowingly or negligence, as
a so called great personality, he should have avoided such derogatory
comparision within same paragraph.
What you write surely matters, but, how you write matters more
than what you write. This is what I want to emphasize in this thread.
HG
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 06:53 PM
Correction:
"So, I am interested in reading the lines that interest you. "
should be read as
"So, I am NOT interested in reading the lines that interest you. "
---
This is an example of a mistake, I wanted to have NOT in between
"I am" and "interested", but, while typing due to my imperfection,
I missed "NOT". It also falls under "negligence", because if I did not
reread it. What happens usually is when you write things by yourself
and reread it before you send it to publisher, because if you KATAI
ATAMA, you read things but, you don't find it, because your mind
still has "NOT", and do not spot it on the writing. Once you throw
the write ups for publication, then, you have relaxed mind and when
you re-read it you can find the mistakes. That is why it is always
advised to ask some one else to have at least one reading and ask
him/her (proof reader) to find ambiguties and misunderstandings.
This happens even in great writers write ups, and therefore, they
ask someone to edit it and modify those confusions. In Book to
technical writings to all sorts of writings, great writers also ask
someone to edit at least have one proof reading. Modanath
either did not have such editing, or he did not allow or he
threw it whatever he wrote even without reevaluating it.
HG
|
| ? |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 08:06 PM
Hahooguruji,
No need to get excited. If Mahabharat is real, Mr. Krishna kumar Bashudev should be posthumously charged with:
1. polygamy
2. instigating and accomplicing Arjun and Co. in killing great minds like Bhishma grandpa, Dr. Dronacharya, Dr. Kripacharya.
3. plotting a grand design to kill entire yadubanshis.
If this is just a fiction, let Mr. Prashrit cite a story from mahabaharat in his writings, will you?
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 10:23 PM
Bro. ?, you are going away from core issue. I consider you
a normal citizen, and what you write as long as you don't
have follow ups from fellow writers, I am not going to consider
your writing threatening to what I believe. In earth there
are peoples of variety in nature. Here, you or your comments
are valuable or are to questioned only when its impact ratio
goes high.
The impact ratio, that how many peoples will change or slightly
change based on your reading. You posting's impact ratio is
almost neglgible a few will have agreements or swallow what
you raised here. So, there is need to be hurt by your postings,
but, Modnath Prasrit's article published in TKP has high impact
ratio, and I do have concerns in his misuses when I got hurt
by such misuses. It matters, who you are too. That is the
reason NK was disappointed when I said I did not expect
certain lines from her postings. That is why Ashu was always
asking here peoples to be accountable. Modnath is accountable
person in Nepal, and he will be hammered for every inch of his
wrong move. Well, we always advocated that reject ideas, but,
not person. The degree of rejection surely is function of who
makes such ideas, and how much is their ideas' impact ratio.
I am sorry to for not geting annoyed by your postings, just because
you did not have quantifiable impact ratio. Ashu, NK, Paschim,
Nepe, Biswo, Sangey, Sainju .... have high impact raitio, thats why
when they deviate an inch away from peoples belief (twist the skeleton),
they will be tortured by flow of postings, as we have witnessed here.
So, Bro./Sis, if you have increased impact ratio, you are more vulnerable
to attacks for every inch of mistakes. Thats difference between common
man and public leaders. I even forgot what you wrote in your postings,
until I finished this postings. YOu can imagine the impact ratio of your
postings. Sorry for this situation. I am not hypocrite, but, its reality.
HG
|
| ? |
Posted
on 01-Jun-02 10:58 PM
Thanks Hahooguruji.
Now who says I do not have any impact at all? :)))
|
