| Username |
Post |
| prakash |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 09:49 AM
All you 'Bideshi Nepalese' people, do you just seek economic gains and your betterment? Has any person living/studying/working thought of going back to Nepal and serving our country? All you do is moan about our country that it has nothing and nothing. If the Americans, British, Aussies and others thought like that earlier on, would you be dying to migrate to their nation? We all need people like you, educated, thoughtful. All we say is I love my country, but if you love someone/thing, don't you care about it? So do you care to go back and LIFT our NEPAL?
PROTEST FOR THE CLOSURE OF THE WORLD BANK AND THE IMF, as they are the institutions that are promoting poverty in asia and africa.
|
| Ritika |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 10:33 AM
Prakash,
How are the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund promoting poverty in Asia?
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 10:59 AM
Going back is an option, a choice people make just like you do.
Look at Nepal and its infrastructure, what is there to go back to ?
To feed more money into the fat, ugly, egotistic, idiotic, selfserving, corrupt government ? If everything was soo fking good then why is everyone leaving ? Look in the fine print ma fren..give me one good reason why people should go back. People in Nepal do not want to change l... everytime someone new comes to better our society from outside.. those bastards ruling the country shoot him down saying this western way is not going to work in Nepal and stresses on how we should do it the Nepali way..... Now you tell me how You as a person feel about that. Would you be motivated to work for people like that ?
What about those fkers that keep pockteting all the aid we get for the country ? They are gaining and bettering their own too ....What'ya have to say about them ? Helping the Neta's help themselves with their swiss bank accounts. Why don't you go ask them the same questions ???
Of course we are going to moan, cause there is nothing else we can do to people that do not want to change.
IMF and World Bank are business people. If there is no profit then there is no business for them being there. Untill the people and govt are willing to adapt to the new ways I personally do not see any drastic changes taking place in the near future.
|
| Bhenda |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 11:02 AM
what about the $$$ we send home, isn't that good for the economy of Nepal??
Pls explain how IMF and WorldBand are promoting poverty???
|
| TANDI |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 11:06 AM
Bishwo & Paschim,
I like to read yours litereaturic thoughts on this topic.
|
| Nepalisaathi.com |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 11:19 AM
Dherai Dami cha hai saathi keep it up
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| QreUS.. |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 11:45 AM
Don't expect much from Biswo and Paschim except grandeur of their style and the general knowledge. The problem is that they have become prisoners of an insoluble circle of evil versus evil. They think that they have to support the less evil to oppose the more evil ignoring the fact that the more evil is actually sired by the less evil. Let them free themselves from this prison before you look up to them for an answer. They don't have the answer. They are just like you and me looking for an answer, but mostly getting lost and sometimes getting lust too.
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| Bideshi Nepali |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 12:11 PM
KoKo wrote
>Look at Nepal and its infrastructure, what is there to go back to ?
Huda sabai aafno nahuda aafno pani parahi.
Aafnai desh aba ta ghin lagchha hola hoina ?
Aafno desh matra ghin lagnu thalyo ki aba ta aafno bau, baje, sakha santanharu pani ghin lagnu thalyo ?
Bau aama ko sampati sampati bhainjel matra bhetnu gainchha ki?
Angsabanda garda matra Nepal gainchha?
Well, I assumed that you are Educated person but your answer is pathetic. May be your westernized mentality but for your information all the westerns love their county no matter how the county is but not like you.
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| Nepali_USA Girl |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 12:24 PM
Koko,
You're so damn right about it.
>Going back is an option, a choice people
>make just like you do.
>Look at Nepal and its infrastructure, what
>is there to go back to ?
>To feed more money into the fat, ugly,
>egotistic, idiotic, selfserving, corrupt
>government ? If everything was soo fking
>good then why is everyone leaving ? Look in
>the fine print ma fren..give me one good
>reason why people should go back. People in
>Nepal do not want to change l... everytime
>someone new comes to better our society from
>outside.. those bastards ruling the country
>shoot him down saying this western way is
>not going to work in Nepal and stresses on
>how we should do it the Nepali way..... Now
>you tell me how You as a person feel about
>that. Would you be motivated to work for
>people like that ?
>
>What about those fkers that keep pockteting
>all the aid we get for the country ? They
>are gaining and bettering their own too ....
>What'ya have to say about them ? Helping the
>Neta's help themselves with their swiss bank
>accounts. Why don't you go ask them the same
>questions ???
>
>Of course we are going to moan, cause there
>is nothing else we can do to people that do
>not want to change.
>
>IMF and World Bank are business people. If
>there is no profit then there is no business
>for them being there. Untill the people and
>govt are willing to adapt to the new ways I
>personally do not see any drastic changes
>taking place in the near future.
|
| This is 100% True |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 01:58 PM
Nepal and Nepalese problem are not World Bank or IMF?
If you study deeply and research, you will find the Nepal's worest result of poverty is your father, uncles, brothers and relatives who work as government employees. These corrupted people are the main root of the problems.
(1) Preserve Slavery, Child abuse
(2) Corruption in Citizenship distribution
(3) Corruption in Land, Forest, and Agriculture
(4) Corruption in Tourism and Transportation (RNAC) – (commission, fraud, high ranking people don't pay airline ticket. It is always free trip for them.
(5) Corruption in Nepal Oil Corporation – Blackmail, fraud, mix with kerosene with petrol and sell.
(6) Corruption in Nepal Telecommunication (commission, fraud, high ranking people don't pay bill, heavy bribery for telephone line distribution)
(7) Corruption in Banking and Trade – show fraud land and fraud paper, then take unexpected bank loan and escape to India.
(8) Root problem of corruption hits for devaluation of Nepalese currency (2% Nepalese currency is not real or legal money, it is fake)
(9) Corruption in Development Program – all nationwide projects
(10) Corruption in Water Resource and Development program
(11) Corruption in Electricity development and distribution
(12) Girls Trafficking, increase in prostitution and HIV
(13) Fake illegal Nepali note printing and sell in market
(14) Wilderness of market pricing, value and market supervision (you can sell goods in any price)
(15) Serious problem in Race instead of equality (people, culture, job, government service)
(16) Corruption in human right, Legal and Justice
(17) Support in Drug trade instead of persecute crimes
(18) Corruption in Tax collection in Airport and Borders
(19) Corruption in City water project and Development (No drinking water, contaminate water)
(20) Corruption in Police Force (Bribery, Murder, Blackmail, it is tool of corruption etc)
(21) Corruption in Army Force (no pension, if you die, your widow don't get compensation)
(22) Corruption in Industrial and business
(23) Corruption in Hospital and Health Sector
(24) Corruption in Engineering and Development (Road, Bridge, construction)
(25) Corruption in Business and Trade (import foreign goods illegally, devastating to national product)
(26) Black trade and market (Gold import and export, black money)
(27) Corruption in Law, Constitution and Justice System (High class, rich, high rank criminal never ever prosecute for their even most dangerous crime. They live freely and proudly)
(28) Negligent in quality and standardization of education (copy and modification of Rana Regime)
(29) Discriminate in equality with man and woman, people.
(30) Class division, people division, (Poor, Rich, Touchable and Untouchable)
(31) Support in political Division instead of Unity in Political (Become a leader only to get a rank and power, so then easy to do all kind illegal, fraud, corruption)
(32) Corruption in Environment and wild life
(33) Free, support and encourage to Blackmail, Free illegal commission trend
(34) Insulting and neglect to Rule, Regulation, Law
(35) Increased very rapidly in Social problems, and danger (drug, prostitution, uneducated, punk culture, black trade, commission, murder, theft and robbery, rape)
(36) Increased unexpectedly destruction in culture, religion, and Nepali Identity
(37) Corruption in city water, Sanitary (Germany gave up to help in valley sanitary)
(38) Rapidly increase in jobless, people are not able to make any good ambition (dark future)
(39) No security of Life from Law (If you have power and money, you can do anything, Free to Kill other)
(40) Great culture to support and practice in Bribery
(41) Humiliation of Nepal in international scope
(42) Collapse system of Law, Services, Social and Culture
(43) Any Government office – nobody works responsibly, Serious bribery, job means drink tea and gossip, without bribery even any small task impossible)
(44) Nobody care and respect Nepal constitution, it is wild wild south east Asia Animals kingdom.
(45) No single one person has strength for Leadership from any political parties (all corrupted ethically and politically, they want only money, position, house, land, enjoyment)
(46) Root of the problem very seriously push Nepal toward poverty and backward
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 02:01 PM
Bideshi Nepalese Says:
Huda sabai aafno nahuda aafno pani parahi
Aafnai desh aba ta ghin lagchha hola hoina ?
Aafno desh matra ghin lagnu thalyo ki aba ta aafno bau, baje, sakha santanharu pani ghin lagnu thalyo ?
Bau aama ko sampati sampati bhainjel matra bhetnu gainchha ki?
Angsabanda garda matra Nepal gainchha?
For your kind information I am talking in general not personalizing it. Your peanut size brain couldn't comprehend that I guess. What Huuuda ? WHen did Nepal have it ? When ? We never had it... Loook at the big picture ma fren..In the history of Nepal we never had it. That's why we are called the third world.... And thanks to the people in SO called Power... they don't want lead us in that Direction. Me as a person would very much like to see our country in the Developing Nations Bracket instead of third world.... But those fkers in power do not want to lead our people in that dierection. They would rather pocket our money and leave us out in the cold.
I am not ashamed of my country. I am ashamed of those corrupt people who are ruining our country. This has been going on for centuries, the the poor people have had too much...that was one of the main cause of the 1990's uprising. Untill we reach another threshold like that the country is not going to change.
I fking love it when people assume things...
This Mr BIDESHI NEPALESE character.....he don even know me and is bringing my gramps and grama in this discussion. What do they have to do with this. WHERE DOES IT SAY IN MY POSTING THAT I HATE MY FAMILY OR EVEN DEPISE THEM...WHERE DID YOU GET THAT I DON'T KNOW..... Well if you say so....I can also say that I saw Moe plugging you last week( what up wt tat).
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| come again |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 02:32 PM
if you're talking about bideshis, then you're talking about nepalis whose home is not nepal. another group, pardeshi nepalis, is probably your intended audience. let's turn your second question around: has any nepali pardeshi NOT thought of going back to nepal? also, why didn't you allege that WB/IMF promote poverty elsewhere besides asia and africa? do you think they're not doing what you allege in those other regions?
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| Hercules |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 02:33 PM
Koko and Nepali_Usa Girl,
So you want Nepal to be perfect place before you go back. Huh?
Think about this, if Nepal becomes a perfect place and you want to go back to Nepal and Our motherland will not welcome you.
There was one Nepali very popular guy (I forgot his name) was send to Banaras for his study during the Rana time. Remember nobody could go to higher education during that time period. His dad somehow made it happen for his son. After few years one day he decided to go visit his son in Banaras.
In Banaras when he and his son was in the room, one of his son's friend knocked the door. That friend comes in sees an old man and ask to this nepali guy "who is he?" The son answers "He's my servant". Because he ashamed to tell his friend that its his father. Father understood him and he left immediately by telling his son that "you don't exist for me anymore."
The point here is just getting degree doesn't make a person educated. Mother, Motherland, Father, Fatherhood is priceless.
|
| sujan |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 02:37 PM
This question certainly requires some thought. The answer simply can't be justified by either yes or no, but with a careful 'strategic plan' of why one should stay overseas or go back to Nepal, can be.
Like any othe third world country, Nepal's educated stream of ppl has been constricted by most G8 countries, resembling how an anaconda kills its prey! One of the identifiable diagnosis is that this problem has been linked to 'brain drain', a system of how educated citizens of poor countries are pulled into the richer ones. Albeit debatable this brain drain phenomena does seem to give some clues as to why these poor educated migrants do not return back home. This topic is certainly not new, and it has been prevalent throughout history. There is a saying 'the grass is always greener on the other side'. And this economic freedom seems to be one of the major reasons, if not all, why these migrants seem to settle down overseas. However, there a few group of migrants who would never trade their culture for economic gains, thus they return.
Many months ago, I had a similar discussion about this in this very site, and one of my arguments was that not only we need to have some sense of patriotism toward our country, but a well-opinionated collective ideas of how we can assist her without actually being physical present. 'Globalization' is more than becoming a way of doing business, its how ppl can actually satisfy their own needs while fulfilling their duties. Our main problem is the way our government is set up, and certainly the politicians ( such rogues!) ; there is no argument there. Rather than emphasizing the education sector, privatization of businesses, R&D, and global trade, they are busy fighting among themselves. Its time for them think like the big boys: the way the US, Australia, Canada, and UK governments reform their immigration policy every couple of years to attract the best and the brightest immigrants. Our govt. has no idea what 'competition' is. During the earlier post, I reiterated the fact that Nepal should follow the model of South Korea when it was no different than Nepal in the early 1970's in terms of it's GDP and economic stability.
As far as the IMF and the World Bank is concerned Nepal should simply stay away from them. Here is why: These institutions are just a cover for the world's largest governments and businesses to have the opporunity to make the equivalent of a 30-year Treasury Bill ( 5% note issued by the US govt) while maintaining an obtainable collateral. What does this mean? It means they can't lose. For example, let's say that IMF puts together a 1.0 Bilion economic rescue package for the country that is struggling. First, it seems reasonable to assume such loans would benefit the country, but what she don't realize is the thousands of clauses and addendums that are attached to it. Suppose the country defaults on their loan. Now what? IMF will restructure the loan again, and the previous interest is added to the principal, hence interest is increased, and the cycle continues. There has been cases where land has been taken from these countries b/c they were set up as collaterals. There also has been reports of famine albeit growing plenty of crops in their own land, these fruits of labor had to be shipped to some G7 country where there is plenty of food already, and 1/5 is wasted! The result is death by starvation. By the way, 50% of IMF and World Bank's members consist of US businesses, the usual Fortune 500 companies. No surprises there.
I am no socio-economic expert, and work in a completely different field. But, being a Nepali, 'self-empowerment' plays a big role when tackling these sometimes illusive issues.
-Sujan
|
| Hawaldar |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 02:48 PM
The way KOKO answered looking for the statements that he/she hasn't wrote . That is quiet funny although he is claiming to have a big brain.
Why most of the Nepalese living aboard think they have a big brain and try to compare in the forums only?
Can't they utilise it in a right place and do something good which can make all of us proud like Mr. Samrat Upadhyay ?
Hey Koko I also got peanut brain like Bideshi Nepali.
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 02:55 PM
Herracles,
I don't want ot go back to a perfect Nepal ...then it will be heaven won' it ? All I want is a Nepal where rule of law applies to everyone the same way regardless you are related to primeminister, army general, Sachib, or the royal family.
Did you hear me say that getting a degree is all education is about ??? NOOOway a degree is a peice of paper and if you don't know what it says in the paper then its useless.
Growing up in a nepali society I love ma moms and pops. I never said I hated them. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE GOVERNING INFRASTRUCTURE IN NEPAL.... unless that changes there won't be anychanges taking place soon.
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| Koko |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 03:10 PM
Hawaldar,
I don't think I have a big brain... Nepali people have a huge fking problem of assuming things. Focus ma fren Focus. I fking hate people like HaWALDAR here assuming things.
Besides if this was an actual forum you won't be hearing fk so many times. I think you're just a bit confused about where you are. This Sajha.com a posting website...and not a formal Forum.
Besides accomplishments can be measured in many ways and forms. I guess you only know one way( awefullysorry to hear that). You need to open up your horizons a bit and seek out the world dear. Besides Samraat isn't the only accomplished Neapli in the world. There are many more out there. Just because they don't get recognized does not mean they don't exist.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 03:25 PM
Tandiji,
(You are not from Tandi, are you?)
Like QreUSji said, I don't know everything, and I am also looking for answers.But, hey, Isn't it true that we write our point of view rather than 'the answer', or 'the indisputable solution to all questions' whenever we write something?
As for supporting less evil vs evil, QreUSji, let's not delude ourselves by thinking we may actually be better than that anytime soon. I don't think we will get that 'absolute' good in near future, btw.
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 04:16 PM
What is my contribution to Nepal?
My friends, reading all of your posting with lots of pros and cons I get same bitter-sweet feelings as all of you are having about Nepal and Nepalese systems. Reading these postings one thing I want to tell is ‘all of us really love our country’ – I am serious. You might not realize but if your blood boils over stupid things happening in Nepal then that means ‘you care’.
So, I would like to challenge all of you guys/gals to transfer that ‘care’ to some tangible things for our beloved country by
1) Thinking more positive things. Just criticizing the Nepalese system does not do any good (by people in Nepal or outside). But, I would like you to ask questions to yourself: “Did I do any random acts of decency for Nepal?” or “Did my action contributed in same ugly Nepalese system?”
Even small action helps/breaks in the long run.
It reminds me of a contributor in this site who keeps on taking photo of bribery or indecency happening in action and publishing it (in Nepal). I salute him.
2) There are millions of ways you can make a difference in your capacity. I have a long list but,
have you heard of ‘TOKTEN’? This is an UN sponsored program for expatriate like us to go back to our own country to serve for three months as a UN volunteer (consultant). This is a win-win deal for you and Nepal.
So, please think of making at least one good did. And, if millions of us outside Nepal can do one good thing, that will certainly make a difference. Do you know the contribution of expatriate Jews in making of Israel (well I do not want to open Pandora’s box about the difference between Israel and Nepal, but this is a simple metaphor)?
Once we start contributing then our voice will also be heard. Please don’t wait for change happening in Nepal for you to contribute. That’s simple excuse for your satisfaction and pondering over which came first egg or the chicken.
Why not all of us take a pledge: “When I do one good thing in Nepal, then I will put one hundred critical postings in Sajha?”
I have done my part. I have gone to Nepal as TOKTEN consultant (my small contribution, may not have big impact but made a difference). Now I can put my next 99 critical postings.
What about you?
|
| dangerous ratio there |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 04:28 PM
so, if one good deed for nepal earns one a hundred critical postings at sajha.com, then i'm really falling behind on using all those critical postings i earned. i think the ratio should be much smaller--closer to 1:1, or else inverted.
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| Nepali_USA Girl |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 04:40 PM
Dude,
I feel so sorry for you. See....this is what I'm talking about, people like you who doesn't understand what we're trying to say. I didn't say anything about my parents. Did I ?? Where the F@@k did you get that idea from? Watch what you said.
If you don't know - than shit! your mouth.
There are too many people like you in Nepal. NO wonder nepal is getting worst day by day.
A$$
>Koko and Nepali_Usa Girl,
>
>So you want Nepal to be perfect place before
>you go back. Huh?
>
>Think about this, if Nepal becomes a perfect
>place and you want to go back to Nepal and
>Our motherland will not welcome you.
>
>There was one Nepali very popular guy (I
>forgot his name) was send to Banaras for his
>study during the Rana time. Remember nobody
>could go to higher education during that
>time period. His dad somehow made it happen
>for his son. After few years one day he
>decided to go visit his son in Banaras.
>
>In Banaras when he and his son was in the
>room, one of his son's friend knocked the
>door. That friend comes in sees an old man
>and ask to this nepali guy "who is he?" The
>son answers "He's my servant". Because he
>ashamed to tell his friend that its his
>father. Father understood him and he left
>immediately by telling his son that "you don'
>t exist for me anymore."
>
>The point here is just getting degree doesn'
>t make a person educated. Mother, Motherland,
> Father, Fatherhood is priceless.
|
| QreUS.. |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 05:43 PM
Biswoji wrote-
"As for supporting less evil vs evil, QreUSji, let's not delude ourselves by thinking we may actually be better than that anytime soon. I don't think we will get that 'absolute' good in near future, btw."
I am not sure. A lot of unpredicted things have happened in Nepal. In any case, I would like to see people like you (whatever that means) ready to fight a lonely war rather than resorting to make an alignment of convenience with the power you think will be the winner in the game. If they indeed win, it will not be due to what they did, but because of what we did not do. Nepal badly needs foolish 'dreamers'. We have had enough of smart 'realists'. Look, how far they took us to. We did every 'possible' things. It did not work. It's time for doing 'impossible' thing.
|
| khelendra |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 11:13 PM
namaskar!
first of all my best wishes to you....... its encouraging and gives a sense of good feeling to other people who thinks like the way you think and want to contribute something for the nation according to ones' capacity.
i just want to know how we can get in touch with "tokten".and what we have to do to work as an UN volinteer(i dont know anyhting about "TOKTEN").and can u write something about ur experience working as a volinteer in nepal for 3 months..... i really want to do something for our nation....i am a student here in wollongong university, sydney.
please do help me to contribute my 3 months period,atleast, for the time beeing.
|
| Ritika |
Posted
on 02-Jul-02 11:43 PM
Logical Sense,
Could you tell me how to get involved with the TOKTEN program?How did you contact the UN officials? What was your experience like? Thank-you, it would be greatly appreciated.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 12:19 AM
People interested in knowing more about TOKTEN, please see below:
http://www.undp.org.np/programme/tokten/
Dear Tandi-ji (no way you are from Tandi!) decision to go back or stay behind is entirely a personal one. That personal decision is influenced by a package of incentives that one weighs differently. Some of these factors that matter differently to different people are: comfort of material living in the West, (dis)comfort of material living in Nepal, love of one's land of birth, spiritual values, love of one's country of adoption, career prospects, family issues, prospect of leading free, secure, prosperous, dignified lives, sense of moral unease, feelings of obligations to country of adoption or birth, etc. It is my personal view that one just has to weigh how important different factors are to each of us and make a decision. There are no right and wrong answers. And we just have to learn to accept and respect each person's decision that one has made by evaluating one's own basket of incentives. I try not to judge people based on a rather simplistic criterion of whether they have decided to stay behind or go back, or even what they say to justify their decisions. In my own case, I returned to Nepal after taking my first degree from the West. No, I didn't return with some noble desire to "desh-bachaune" or for some grandiose nationalist reasons. Not at all. I returned because I thought my spending time in Nepal at that stage of my life would be good for me, and if I did something worthwhile while there, all the more better for the country. I gained a lot from my 3 years in Nepal before returning for grad school, and in the fields I was involved in - journalism, travel, economic development - I think I made some contributions that I'm proud of. I don't work in Nepal now, but I continue to assist the government and other NGOs when asked for help as I am doing as I speak. Do I intend to go back in a few years? Yes, I do. But all these decisions are inspired by my own personal circumstances and by the incentives I face as an individual and what factors I value in life. Again, everyone's circumstance or sets of incentives vary. Let's just make quiet, private decisions on this, and not worry too much about the urge to come up with justifications to either stay behind or go back. Let's just answer ourselves - our own consciences - about what we value in life and how we have tried to honor them. Just my thoughts, as per Tandi-ji's request.
On the other point, yes, QreUs-ji is right, I don't have all the answers. Neither do I ever pretend that I do. I just come here to learn and post my own thoughts on topics that are of interest to me. Please don't expect too much out of me. I'm just an average dude from Gorkha trying to have some fun on Sajha. In case you haven't noticed in the past 6 months, I come here more for amusement than scholastic theatrics. My job is sufficiently dry (well, sort of) to occupy me bored during the day! And yes, I remain single, and that adds doubly to my boredom. And boy, isn't it hot outside. So all I do is stay indoors, brood, and smile with amusement like a mad man 24/7. Pathetic, I know.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 12:37 AM
I couldn't also help noticing words of wisdom on the IMF and the World Bank. I *don't* work for these institutions, but do happen to know quite a lot about them. I know they are controversial, and there's an awful lot wrong with the way these institutions function or have functioned, but it surprises me why the real anomalies of the Bank and the Fund do not get addressed by people who dislike them, but instead they rely on misrepresented facts and lies which not only ultimately does their genuine skepticism a huge disservice, but also forces people who should listen to their criticisms to not take those criticisms seriously because either they are factually challenged or emotionally charged.
Just to kindly rebut Sujan-ji's completely false points, IMF/WB are financial institutions that lend money to borrowing governments. Thus, no, 50% World Bank and IMF members are *not* US businesses. Businesses can *never* become members (or shareholders) of these institutions and they also can't borrow from them. It is over 180 countries that are shareholders (including Nepal) and only national governments, not businesses or individuals, can borrow. Only after a recent change were reformist Indian state governments like Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Andhra able to borrow directly bypassing Delhi. But these are not normal lending institutions, or normal banks. Voting rights are proportional to how much money you put in as a shareholder. Nepal's share is way below 1%. Obviously the rich nations control the Board because they are the ones putting the largest amounts of money. But crucially the World Bank raises additional money by selling triple A rated bonds on Wall Street (because the US treasury backs the World Bank, its bonds are rated extremely well). Money that is raised is then lent to middle-income countries (like Brazil or Poland) at market interest rates (IBRD group).
For the poorest countries, the story is different. The poor like us have no access to international capital markets to finance our development expenditures (because rich private lenders don't trust poor governments with no credibility), and we rely on charity. The World Bank loans money on concessional terms, with very nominal interest rates (way below market rates, to cover operational costs. Actually these loans are called credits because market interest rates are not charged) which is to be repaid in about 40 years. Some 30 poorest countries, including Nepal, come under this concessional category called the IDA group.
Much of the controversy surrounds the use governments put to use of this money. Since in its early days, the Bank supported large infrastructure projects (roads, dams, universities, airports) with impacts on the environment or having to displace people, it drew heavy criticisms. Corruption has been an issue also as govt. officials swim in easily floated dollars, local kickbacks from construction contracts, etc. But no, countries don't put up collateral to receive lending. That they lose their land if they don't pay up is just plain false (and quite funny a claim actually!).
It's a tricky business, lending money for development purposes. And WB tries to tie the hands of governments by making their lending conditional on certain economic policies that they argue with passion are right. If the governments don't like the conditions, they may refuse to borrow. One is not forced to swallow the pills one doesn't like. But most conditions are good which the countries need to be following anyway - transparent procurement rules, reform of tax regimes, customs regulations, ending of perverse subsidies, etc. But some conditions are controversial - like reducing tariffs, reducing budget deficits through contractionary fiscal policies (cutting back public expenditures at times of recession, etc., which even top economists like Sachs and Stiglitz are critical of.) But since so much of development is about finance, poor countries that have no viable domestic resource base need external financing of this sort especially if they have no standing in capital markets. Of course, much reform needs to be done on how and where the WB/IMF money is spent, but to present the situation as if these are some evil institutions out there to wreck the world is not true.
As I said, a lot needs to be reformed on how they work, but at the end of the day, from a poor country perspective, if institutions like these did not exist we would have to create them. The amount of money that we need to meet overwhelming development challenges is just not coming from anywhere else. One just has to take reality by the horns. It is up to us to use, not abuse, the money they have to offer to build long-term productive capacities so that eventually we don't have to borrow from them. East Asian countries like South Korea have gone from becoming a heavy borrower to a lender in the past 30 years. Let's also debate with them the suitability of the conditions that they present to us as right. Most of the time, they are, but sometimes they may not be and it's the country's responsibility to amend or refuse them. China, Vietnam, Botswana, India are damn good at doing this. And because these countries engage so constructively with these institutions, they are also the Bank's favorites. Let it be noted that Vietnam - a communist country - is the Bank's favorite "client" today. Ironic, no?
I'd rather introspect and look at our own weaknesses - Nepali failures - for not being able to guide and use aid to our benefit despite the best of intentions of most benefactors. The demon is within us, although like in a fatalist tradition, it's always easy to shift the blame elsewhere - India or Washington. Wisdom from my friend Arbin Sherchan again: why does everyone talk about changing the world but no one talks about changing oneself? True for countries and galaxies as well.
IMF (The Fund) works slightly differently with their prime mandate being slightly short-term: to assist and finance temporary balance of payments crises. But the essence of conditional lending is the same.
Again, I don't work for the World Bank or the IMF, and above is what I could just write in one go without much thought on what I know of them, but for more factual information on what they do and how, please refer to their web sites:
www.imf.org/external/about
www.worldbank.org
For an unemotional, credible, intelligent, but sharply *critical* account of the World Bank, please read Catherine Caufield's book: "Masters of Illusion: The World Bank and the Poverty of Nations".
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 09:59 AM
>Biswoji wrote-
> In any case, I would
>like to see people like you (whatever that
>means) ready to fight a lonely war rather
>than resorting to make an alignment of
>convenience with the power you think will be
>the winner in the game. If they indeed win,
>it will not be due to what they did, but
>because of what we did not do. Nepal badly
>needs foolish 'dreamers'. We have had enough
>of smart 'realists'. Look, how far they took
>us to. We did every 'possible' things. It
>did not work. It's time for doing '
>impossible' thing.
QreUSji, I want to differ in this issue. In fact our problem is those foolish leaders who think they know everything and wouldn't listen to others.
In my opinion, the only successful leader is that one who have willingness to learn from others, rather than insisting he is right all the time. Hello, we are not in prehistoric age, now a lot of people are smart, and one person doesn't always know everything. The future is for collective leadership, mark my word. No one has right to impose his untested idea to the millions of people. We have seen North Korea and Mao's starved China already!!
Foolish ideas are for acadamicians now. They need to propound their thoughts in coherent manner, and wait for approval from other intelligent people, and see its evolution. Time will judge its practicability in politics. Politics tends to be, and should be, more predictable in civilized society,should not depend on the caprice of one individual.
So long.
|
| NepGirl |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 11:36 AM
One thing I have seen so far in this page or most of the threads in Sajha.com is people do know how to take their anger out regardless of the discussion topics.
Why so much anger within? Why?
|
| Nepali Girl |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 11:53 AM
Hey Nep Girl,
I agree with you 100%. Most people who reply here seem so frustrated and angry. I think they think this is a perfect outlet to pour their animosity here! Some of the replied are so nasty and annoying too!
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 12:48 PM
Both nep and nepali girls,
This topic in itself is frustrating. There are a lotta people who want to see our country progress but people that actually have the power to do it would rather serve themselves than the people. And do everything in their capacityto retain that power.
From a layman's veiw from the sideline it a never ending process...at first we thought it was the king but now we know where the problem is but no solution...its frustrating.
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 01:07 PM
TOKEN details...
Ritika, Khelendra and others. I am glad to see lots of genuine interest regarding TOKTEN. I am affiliated with a group of people called 'Matribhumi Nepal' and we decided that we want to start a separate thread concentrating on TOKTEN so please contribute your comments there.
I will post my individual wisdom regarding the program and how can you have a bigger impact in a short period of time. So, please hold on until that thread shows up. (Matribhumi Nepal is a group of people, so you know how it goes in democracy - we need to satisfy majority before we post it - but we enjoy arguing about a topic but at the end we always find a common ground - is not that essence of democracy? - decision may be slow but it is worth because of it's inclusive nature -:)
|
| Jhapali mitra |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 03:15 PM
Dear prakash jee,,
i liked ur topic. its ur good feeling to our nation that u wish to see an ideal situation in which our manpowwer to be back and make our country a better place to live in. I must appreciate ur idea. But its equally important that we look the situation from the side of the expatriates. PLS don take a feeling that they don love the nation. we all living abroad love our nation. AFU JANMEKO RA HURKEKO THAU KOO KASLAI MAYA HUNNA RAAA???? But its really a big deal for expatriates to be back home. the problem is not only of good salary,, but something more of their personal feelings,,The people educated and working aboad are hard working people,, they deserve good working environment,, which is completely lacking in nepal. when coming back to nation,, on one hand they have to sacrifice lots of exposure, physical comfort and luxury of the west,, and on the other hand they get nothing more than frustrating situation in nepal. who does not like prosperous life. u too like it, hoina raaaaa???? Nepalese living abroad don like to spend time on dirty politics and chakari that is so prevalent in our nation. And once they'r back,,,, thats only what they get..,, U have just seen recently,, chaotic situation regarding Mr sens case,, our netas r now busy in making khicha tanii but see the literate nepalese,, they are frustrated out there and protesting. Its really pity situation. So i think the problem of brain drain is more becox our nation is not preparing a good atomsphere to make these people back. These ppl cannot change the system in our muluk.
ani tapai koo tyoo IMF and WB bareee maaaa ...
Although it is very unlikely for our country to develop via making deals with these gaathist institutions,,,i don think its fair to blame IFM and WB,, pls refer to Sujan's idea. i too have the same feeling. Its only our nation to blame if we don benefit from the loans we take from them.
Ani finally,, i have the same idea as Nep girl and nepalese gal,, i too have feeling that our gorkhali mitras are sometimes too frustrating and just start bombarding on others,, lets not forget that everyone has his own idea and has value from its own vantage point,,to express their idea is ok,, tara tyoo nasty and filthy words prayog garnu chahii tyeti ramroo bhayenaa.. we suld not forget that we are SUNDAR NEPAL kAA ANUSASHIT ANI SWABHIMANI NEPALI HAUUNN..using dirty words is very neglected in our culture. and for me,, personally,, these dirty words are very annoying.
JAYA DESH
|
| sujan |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 03:47 PM
More on the IMF and the WB (apologies for being partially off-topic):
Since Paschim didn’t quite catch my sarcasm and underlying views, I thought I would post more in detail. I will try my best not to infatuate with boredom. Paschim's notes on these two institutions are general factual accounts of how the IMF and the WB function in theory, which is quite correct. However, I am afraid such hypothetical and abstract views can distort ones view of the real IMF and the WB we have come to know over the years. One needs to be more analytical and examine the not-so-obvious facts that you do not get to read in IMF’s website. Keep in mind that the views below are my own. By all means, jump in and let us know how your views may be similar or dissimilar to mine.
A little history:
In reality, these two institutions exist purely on the grounds of 'capitalism'. When Harry Dexter and John Maynard Keynes founded IMF after being through an unforeseen economic crisis such as devaluation of currencies as much as by 52% after the Depression in the 30’s, their mere goal was to create an institution capable of monitoring and maintaining international trade. Well, it has done that if you are one of the leading industrialized G7 nations or one of the 24 members of the executive board of which only three are non-G7 nations- Saudi Arabia, China and Russia. These 24 members make all the decisions on policies of lending. So, what about the other 172 countries, which are part of the organization? A representative from each country receives a title called the 'Board of Governors', but they do not have much input on how the policies within the IMF are implemented. Another words, these 24 members are the Chief Executive Officers of the IMF, and they run it like how Sandy Weill runs Citigroup. Not only they run the show, but they decide on how much funding is to be initially contributed by each member into the general pool of funds. Not surprisingly, they also decide how much money is to be lent and what restrictions should be placed on the 'Stand-By Arrangement' when a nation submits an application for an economic loan. You may ask, how are these 24 members elected? This is directly correlated with the economic strength of the nation. The higher the gross domestic output, the more members that nation can have in the executive board.
The controversy:
The members of the executive board are chosen based on the nation's GDP; the G7 nations certainly rise to this occasion without a doubt. The U.S., with some $ 9 trillion in last year's GDP, is clearly ahead of the pack, and controls 19% of the total votes and contributes more than $ 38 billion in SDR's. Other leading members are Germany, Japan, France, and the U.K. So, how do they collect the money to fulfill their quota? For example, in the US the money comes from vast sources pooled through the U.S. Treasury. If you just read the pamphlets provided by the IMF or their website, they won't tell you all this, and will certainly be in the dark as Paschim seems to be (no pun intended ) - the U.S. businesses have a huge impact on how these institutions function, which I will explain in a bit. My reference to a 50% membership of US businesses was more of a pungency, which actually begins to make more sense if you dig the hole deep enough. Nevertheless, getting back to the sources of funds- the sources may be federal taxes, government bonds auctioned off in the capital markets, where all the Fortune 500 companies participate to normalize allocation of their portfolio, or there can be more complicated financial derivatives- such as mortgage backed securities owned by US businesses, or government influenced institution like Fannie Mae. Once the fund is raised through these channels, the US Congress- the House of Rep. and the Senate vote on the amount of fund to be allocated for the use of IMF, which must be at least the amount required to equal the quota. This occurs in a rolling basis or as required. The borrowing of money has costs. The businesses which bought the government fixed income securities are assured a rate at the time of auction, respectively. That means the U.S. govt. needs to turn a profit so that it can fulfill its own obligations to the buyers, and the tax payers. Now, isn't IMF sounding more like a business enterprise than a non-profit institution they claim to be? The developing nations have to pay 1% service fees and about 4-1/2% in interest. What if they can't pay the interest? What say do they have to defend themselves of such obscure loaning scheme, where they are a part of the loaning organization, yet lack any control? Restructure the loan? Sure they can, but what does that solve long-term? Nothing. Many poor countries suffer from the heavy burden of external debt. And United Nations has estimated that more than 50 countries can never repay their debt.
For a third world like Nepal, this can be viewed as a doubled-edged sword. If you don't borrow, you sink. If you do borrow, you sink regardless. Even if poor nations were able to repay, the restrictions and clauses put on by these G7 nations is so astounding that it affects the nations' ability to repay the loan. Not only does this causes to default, but the citizens of the poor nations have to endure such harsh treatments. Examples of such conditions are: the money cannot be used for military purposes or to increase additional government expenditure, in order to meet yearly quota the receiving member nation must export certain amount of goods such as agricultural products even if it means starving its own citizens, must limit the production of certain amount of valuable natural resources such as gold and silver, etc. There has been evidence of mass starvation in South America, in particular- Nicaragua in the early 1980's. As Paschim has pointed out so blithely that citizens of poor nations do not lose their land, which in theory is correct, but again this requires a bit of uninhibited research. Most of the time a borrowing nation's loan is unforgiven, and the interest has been accumulating so rapidly that either it needs to decrease the principle or file bankruptcy (of course, they can't do that!). There have been cases in the early 1980's where nations in South America had to sell part of their land to cut down on the rapidly increasing interest. If you want to know more about it I suggest you look up one of many anti-IMF 'think tanks' located all over the U.S., which should have abundance of such records. I was not able to find this material on their websites albeit I didn't spend much time searching for it.
To concatenate more controversies to the above- the whole idea of lending 'funds' to these poor nations is to promote the privatization of businesses as a 'cure' for weaker economies. This gives rise to the multinationals and banks, mostly U.S. Fortune 500, to enter the market to make a quick buck and exit as soon as there is a whisper of default. How can Coke, Microsoft, GM, General Electric, and other survive without the support of IMF in these poor countries? And the World Bank is a sister institution, which works with IMF concurrently in many deals. So, my point is this- who is clearly benefiting? It’s obvious- those shareholders of those Fortune 500, and in general- the citizens of the G7 nations. You may ask, where is such proof? Since its inception of 39 nations in 1944, it now has 180 members as of 1998, but where is the prosperity among the member nations except for the elite G7? There are nations in rather increasing numbers getting poorer compared to G7 with exception to the 4 emerging tiger countries, and the gap is widening. And these 4 tiger nations do not represent the emerging markets as a whole. IMF knows this, but continues to lend exuberantly with a crippling clauses and restrictions. The sad fact is more nations are defaulting, therefore their debt load is getting heavier. If the IMF happens to forgive a nation, and they rarely do, the country is back to square one. So, what was accomplished? If not, the poor nations accumulate debt, and they are falling behind in more debt than ever-before. They can also extend the pay periods, but it's not a long term solution. So, what will eventually happen to these nations who cannot fulfill their obligations? What does it mean? Will they have to eventually sell their natural resources, their land, and perhaps even their personal belongings to the hounding IMF? These are the ultimate collaterals that Paschim seems to have missed among other collaterals ( which, in fact, are clauses, restrictions, and addendums). Sorry, but there are always COSTS to borrowing money one way or the other no matter how scrupulous a deal is, and these are the ultimate costs and sacrifices citizens of the poor nations have to face.
I am for 'capitalism' and 'globalization', and have the uttermost support for lending institutions which play a fair game. IMF isn't one of them as I am a Nepali and Nepal happens to be a recipient of their loan. So, it is quite plausible for me to say that IMF has put us in worst situation than we were in before! If you are a citizen of G7 then your views may differ sharply than mine. Since Nepal doesn't have the luxury of raising capital through the world financial markets and we can’t afford to always rely on grants, we do need loans to set up our core structural foundations / infrastructure, just as an entrepreneur would seek out a venture capitalist. However, most of us are becoming very weary of the IMF. The issue of political corruption in Nepal is a whole new ball game because there is this looming question: can these loans be properly invested by our politicians? Can they act like investment bankers, who not only accumulate enough return on investment to pay the loan, but also create substantial profit ? This topic most certainly requires another thread, so I won’t start it here. While at Berkeley, I will never forget the words of my outspoken economics Professor, who can rap it up much better than I can: IMF is a powerful and disapproving Institution, imbued with a missionary zeal for fiscal rectitude, that somehow compels its members to tread a path of economic austerity.
These are sites, which briefly explain the aforementioned facts albeit there are many if you care to search:
http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1206b-1.html
http://speakout.com/activism/news/2272-1.html
http://www.mackinac.org/ecodevo/defaultart.asp?ID=1648
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/exrp/what.htm#box3
-Sujan
|
| Sifale |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 04:58 PM
I have been reading these posts on the forum almost for a month now. Looks like we have a lot of people out there who regularly post on this forum.Seems like they know a lot of stuff, but not a single one talks about any actual contribution, wheter physical or global or anything in that matter, to Nepal or it's poor populace. I hardly see any one come upfront and say" Ok ! this is the situation in Nepal. We all know how poor, illiterate,sick,starving and naked Nepalese are in the country. we all know the government is not gonna do anything to uplift the living standards of the public but for the Bhrastachar, natabad and Kripabad , no matter whether it is Congress, communist or the Panche. So I Call upon all the Nepalese living in America to join me in a proposal to go to Nepal , Estabilish a seven day health Camp in a remote village this year. Next year we will join hand in hand to go to another remote village and run a 15 days rural education class, Next year we plan to build a pure drinking water project for the village." Things like that. Why cannot we hear or read anything like that from one of these 'Bujurgas'. 'Nani Dekhi lageko Bani' Dhong ra Dhanch ma nai zindagi bitaune. Nepalese people need action not speech. Nowhere I find anyone talk about actual plans or, dreams if they have any, yet I see lot of these people only talk about IMF, World Bank, International politics and nepali Congress.
To be Honest with you if you feel so patriotic about your country and motherland, you gotta start doing something ,not just post your philoshophies on the forum.
What ever I have mentioned above are not something impossible for people who live in America, and I am hundred percent sure there are a lot of nepalese people who post in these forums can go to Nepal and come back , and many can go back , but not come back to the US. Those who can go and are allowed to come back should take the lead and those who cannot take the chance to leave the US should contribute to such programs, as I mentioned above, in some way. A true patriot would go one step beyond to find what can be done to do anything that would help the nepalese people live a better life, which in turn will ugrade the status of the country itself; but not just sit on a chair with the mouse in one hand and start posting his philosophies. " 'Bhukne kukurle tokdaina 'bhaneko thahai hola. Gafai gafma bitne bho life, chahe nepalma hos athawa Americama hos.
I see people talk about japan , Korea,and other countries. But how long we are just going to talk bout them? Yes, all aggreed , the infrastructure needs to be there. But didn't japanget devastated in the II world war. But within 40 years after the war was over japan had rebuilt and regainded her strenght to show the world that she is something you dare not mess around with.And the whole credit goes to the japanese people. They did not keep posting their 'hawa gantahn' neither on a forum nor in any 'Khula Munch'. But they worked, worked and worked their tush off. They worked 18, 19, 20 hrs a day. So when they went to work they tried to take a nap in the Bus , Train or while standing and the result is infront of you. what is a country.? How do you define a country? the landmass the country occupies is not the country. The people who live within the boundry of the landmass is the definition of the country. The people can either build it or ruin it. they work harder. The country is renowned in the whole world, the people don't work and beg, the country is f..d up. Am I right ?
Without sacrifice the country will always remain the way it is now. The politicians always will keep fighting for the power, if possible, and if not, they will just start filling up their Bank accounts. Because they know by now that the country is in a state like a beggar. If you guys have seen homeless or a beggar, the noticeble thing is even if the homeless has all the four limbs intact as it was when he was born, hewill not work and earn money but beg. Similarly we have a beggar mentality. So the politician knowstheat this is his one and only chnace to earn and make it food for his 'Saat Pusta'. SO why would not h e pocket the money. He has a family to support just like anyone else. he has very demanding wife like any body else.
So, bottomline is now is the time. Before the situation can get out of control , WE, The nepalese from America, need to step in and do somethong , no matter what. I hope you all know what I mean.Therefore, start thinking and acting, no gossips, and we will be able to work together to bring the change. Thank you all who ever gets to read my post.
Jaya Pashupati Nath.
|
| chirag |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 06:01 PM
Dear Sifale jee,
Thanks for the wonderful posting, I was waiting silently for so long.
I am sick of reading the tirades in this forum.
If you really plan to go forward with your ideas, then please do inform me. Maybe I can be of some help.
In the past, I was acquainted with poverty alleviation through the micro entrepreneurship development and had dealt with rural people to some extent.
Keep up with your good thoughts.
May the dream turn into a reality.
Regards!
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 08:59 PM
Sifaleji,
While you have a point, and I would frankly evaluate my material assistance to dispossessed ones in Nepal to be negligent, I have some exceptions to your flagellating of some of us because evidently your posting was marinated with such huff mainly because you have 'overexpectations' from us.
I mean, come on, this is Kurakani forum. This forum is mainly to discuss what is going on around. Most of us are students, and writing here between, say, advanced math classes. We are not bestowed with authority over tax payer's money,and there are very few things we can do. As a student, our major goal remains education rather than diverting ourselves to a lot of fields, which I hope you don't disagree.
It is sad that your reaction is also beclouded by your lack of information about the posters too. You have presumed that we haven't done anything, and that we haven't informed you if we have done anything. But isn't it true that any effort , started without much deliberation and much network and infrastructure and started on impulse, fails to sustain. It is important for us Nepali to recognize that for any effort to sustain, it is not sufficient to have support of only those people near you , but it is important to SEEK, FIND OUT and CONNECT able people from a wide range of demographic domain.
Sajha.com is good, because it introduces us with a lot of people without having to see them and be prejudiced by their supposed private life which we can't see in the space you and I am writing in here, and it has been a great experience for me, and it is likely to be helpful in any future sustainable society oriented attempts if we make any.
Finally, I knew a good friend in Sajha, whom I don't know personally, and he once (actually last year) started to raise money for one ailing celebrity in Nepal. I think he was able to raise that money (It was in four digitsl) in a matter of weeks. He didn't even have to advertise his effort here. Isn't that wonderful?
Talking and staying in Sajha.com helps. It is not a waste of time.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 03-Jul-02 09:33 PM
Sujan-ji, now, why do I have this strong feeling that you are the same American gentleman by the name of Sage who frequented this site a few weeks ago? Well, if you are Sage, welcome back! If you are not, welcome regardless.
With this "educated guess" out of the way, let me say, sorry I couldn't get your sophisticated sarcasm the first time. Just too dumb on the wit, sarcasm, and humor school, you see. But to me, they were blatant lies that would have passed as truths to, I suspect, many Nepalis who would have read that. I thus thought I'd challenge your (sarcastic) facts, so that you would be able to disown them. Thank you for doing so. But now I saw that you have taken all that trouble to write all that stuff. Gives me a nostalgic flashback of your earlier avatar, so I need not waste too much time battling them. Hope the following points suffice:
1. Yes, like I noted up front, like most financial institutions, voting power at the IFIs is proportional to your national economic strength. Nothing wrong with that. You know one can stay out like Libya, Cuba, and North Korea if one wants. But don't judge these institutions through a conventional lens. Since you mention White and Keynes, perhaps it would be useful to note what Keynes said after Bretton Woods: "The Bank is a Fund and the Fund is a Bank", setting the tone for a complex undertaking.
2. Rule number 1 of banking. If you borrow, you repay the principal as well as the interest. You don't seem to have grasped this. And borrowers have *some* responsibility over the money they borrow, don't you think? That was my sarcasm, by the way. As for indebtedness especially the HIPC countries of Africa, perhaps a little blame can also be given to the most corrupt dictators and venal administrations that the world has ever seen in taking the loans for private abuse post-independence? Surely not *all* blame is to be shouldered by pin-striped gentlemen on the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th streets of Washington?
3. Correlation is not causation.
4. Washington-based IFIs believe with much wisdom and passion in the Washington Consensus of, i) privatization (let the state retrench from wealth-creating areas and focus on things that deserve better public provisioning such as universal primary education and health), ii) stabilization (don't spend more than you earn lest you want to burn down your house), and iii) liberalization (open up, compete, integrate and grow faster than by staying isolated, protecting ugly SOEs). This is the advertised pill that arrives in the Capitals exactly as seen on TV. To take it or not is up to you. I'm saying let's take those pills that are good for us. It's not a doctor treating an ignorant patient. It's a doctor treating another doctor, and the patient doctor would know, with a little homework, what pills are good for her. Just ask Dr. Uganda, Dr. Vietnam, Dr. China. Nowhere do you mention, dear Sage, the responsibility that countries themselves have to assume in amending and refusing the terms that foreigners set for us. And I as an average Nepali from a village in Gorkha give a damn about that. Btw, IMF role in Nepal has been most marginal. Yes, the Bank has been a more active player, but even their total *cumulative* lending portfolio doesn't exceed 1.3 billion dollars to date. And that's peanuts. Nothing. In fact that's roughly what most Nepalis doing menial jobs in India, Gulf and the Far East remit back home every year. Please put facts before dogma.
I have heard all the arguments (?) that you have put forth, but sorry, like before, I am not buying them. But I laud your spirit of concern. And like before, I request you to brandish the right tools. Fully aware of the futility of engaging in debates with gentlemen like yourself with a hard package of pre-conceived biases, I say good bye. I won't respond again. Besides, this thread is not WB/IMF related. Perhaps you want to create a new thread and I might join you there if I have time and am not too bored seeing all the uninteresting repetitions. No I didn't use the word "propaganda" this time :)
But on this thread, I won't respond to you again.
Finally, dear friend, no I am not as naïve as you think I am. My posting above was introductory because I sensed that with your completely false points (which you now say was sarcasm!) needed some primary education. Just be assured that I have been a student of development for the past 10 years and a practitioner for almost 5. I do know what I am talking about. Do you?
|
| Santa |
Posted
on 04-Jul-02 02:35 AM
Are you sure you know what you are talking about? If what you write is an indication of what you know, then it is hard to believe that it took you ten years to acquire such ignorance about the ways of the world.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 04-Jul-02 03:25 AM
fantastically ignorant that i am, kindly show me the light, O Wise Santa, tell me how exactly this world of yours works.
please?
|
| why not nepali |
Posted
on 04-Jul-02 04:42 AM
>>But, being a Nepali, 'self-empowerment' plays a big role when tackling these sometimes illusive issues.
-Sujan
Hey, We can say that sujan must be some nepalese after reading his writings.
|
| sujan |
Posted
on 04-Jul-02 09:57 AM
Let us not quarrel with this issue Paschim. My point of posting this was to share some knowledge that I've gained over the years. It is up to you to confirm the facts if you believe they are misleading and false on your own, or completely disavow the facts I've presented before you. We are all here to learn from one another, hence the word 'public forum', so the disagreements are welcome, and I respect each and every one of them.
Most of these facts I stated were taught to me by an econ Professor at Berkeley and through research of my own. I was lucky enough to use a proprietary database that is also affiliated with the Buss. Dept at Stanford, which gave me a lot of insights I would never have least suspected. I am sure a lot of students in the U.S. can have access to this database through their Business, Economics, or Public Policy Depts., and can verify the facts presented. It would be just plain ridiculous and stupid of me to make up a story or tell a lie in a public forum.
By the way we are all equal here, no matter if you have 20 years of experience or none. Everyone's viewpoint is quite important, and I encourage everyone to participate. But, I strongly discourage personal attacks and self-promotion. These two not only wastes time, but reverses the point of discussing an ongoing issue.
As for Paschim's reference to someone using the handle 'Sage', I am not him/her. I rarely post on this site; my last my post was about 4 months ago. However, my name was registered about a year ago. I suggest verification with a webmaster of this site would be enough to suffice the conundrum.
Have a great July 4th holidays everyone, and see you at the convention if you happen to be there!
-Sujan
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