| Username |
Post |
| ? |
Posted
on 05-Jul-02 11:33 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_2102000/2102081.stm
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| Truth |
Posted
on 06-Jul-02 08:48 AM
Oh, come on ?. People should hate Palestinians who teach their teenagers kids to carry
explosive and kill small children, old people etc in Israel. If I were an Israeli, I would
never surrender to Palestinians.
Btw, when were Palestinians free? Their land is still grabbed by Egypt. Why don't they
fight with them? Terrorists and autocrats like Arafat will never bring peace to Palestinians.
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| ? |
Posted
on 06-Jul-02 09:08 PM
And their land has been occupied by Israel also.
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| ? |
Posted
on 06-Jul-02 09:16 PM
And by the way, Egypt has not occupied their land. Go look at this site for yourself.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html
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| Truth |
Posted
on 06-Jul-02 11:00 PM
Go read the history of Palestine, friend. You are totally brainwashed by Palestinian
propaganda. UN still has some problem when it comes Israel!
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| ? |
Posted
on 06-Jul-02 11:40 PM
Are you saying that the UN is wrong?
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| bitter truth |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 12:08 AM
I see Nepal and India like Israel and palestine in 10 years from now, may be not by Physics, but by sentiments, for sure.
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| ? |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 12:24 AM
No its wont. The fundamental differences between Palestinians and the Israelis (apart from one being the oppressed and the other sometimes, aggressor) is their religion. One follows Islam and the other, Judaism. This is not the case between Nepal and India. India for sure, wont take over Nepal and colonize. But moreover, Nepalese tend to be racist towards Indian and vice-versa for no reason. The hatred between Nepal and India is totally unfounded. The intellectuals wont do it but the majority of the people will because they dont have a stand and are uneducated.
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| ? |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 12:26 AM
Also, it wont be nowhere any degree of hatred between Palestinians and Israels. Would a Nepalese be going to India to do suicide bombings?
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| Truth |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 12:58 AM
No, Nepal and India won't be like Palestine and Israel, because
1. Nepali people won't kill innocent Indian children in the name of protest.
2. Nepali people won't kill unarmed Indian players in Olympics.
3. Nepali people won't kill a group of old people gathered for festival.
4. Unlike Palestinians, Nepali rebels will not be run by the whim of one leader.
5. Nepali people won't support Saddam Hussain or such dictator.
A true freedom fight is run on principle, like Mahatma Gandhi did.
So, don't worry fren, no more Israel/Palestinians. And yea, I don't read history in UN books, I read history in at least one or two more places.
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| ? |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 01:35 AM
Ok, I dont see anytime in the future happening so. BUT if and only if, India were to take over Nepal, Lets see how your statement fits
>>1. Nepali people won't kill innocent Indian children in the name of protest.
>>2. Nepali people won't kill unarmed Indian players in Olympics.
>>3. Nepali people won't kill a group of old people gathered for festival.
Lets say majority wont but the some will arise and would go on to extreme measures as suicide bombings.
>>4. Unlike Palestinians, Nepali rebels will not be run by the whim of one leader.
Excuse me?? But clear me if maoists are not Nepalese, they certainly seem to be following one or so leader RIGHT NOW!!! I dont even have to say what would happen if India were to take over.
>>5. Nepali people won't support Saddam Hussain or such dictator.
Well, if maoists were to take over the country. Be ready to lal salam your new dictator Mr. Dahal.
My friend, you seemed to be totally biased towards Israel. History has shown that to attain peace, the aggressor will have to give some space to the oppressed. In Israeli-palestinian context, Israel is certainly the aggressor. From their aggression of the creation of Zionist regime in the former palestine to their self bearing as being "the people of god" to their latest takeover of the palestian cities.
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| bitter truth |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 02:42 AM
?,
> "Intellectuals won't do it..."
Which intellectual in current Nepal have you seen not having hatred for indians? What the hell is unfounded? What makes you say that it's education that will lead nepalese people to stop hating Indians? Wake up my friend !!
>"Nepalese won't go to India with a suicide bomb to kill the Indians."
Trust me they would if they could. There are alot of Nepalese who have a strong desire of killing all the Indians (Indians in Nepal or Indians in India).The interesting thing is : they would not carry a suicide bomb.
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| ? |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 04:27 AM
Right Education will make you think rationally. Now killing fellow humans is not rational. So get my point???
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 10:44 AM
As a supporter of Israel, I am very disturbed by the title of this posting.
?ji probably thinks he is supporting an anti-imperialism fight. His zeal shows that. But
try to live amongs the Hizbollah, Al Aqsa, Hamas and regimes like Iraq, Iran
and Syria and one will figure out why Israel is the most peaceful nation despite its
occasional raids to these uncivilized territory.
Which legitimate anti-colonialisation movement used terror as bargaining power?
How can one blow up small children and old people(in Passover massacre last
month) and ask for a state? I don't know. When was Palestine a free state last
time? That also I don't know. Arabs were riddled with the most intense
intrafighting until 1947(see Lawrence of Arabia), suddenly they get these peaceful
intelligent victims of second World War to fight with.
I am particularly proud of the democratic state of Israel and its relation with Nepal.
We were the first state to recognize Israel in our region. Kathmandu holds the largest
Passover party (used to be more than 1000 people ) every year.Relation with
state of Israel is the legacy of our first elected government and we must be
proud of it.
If only Nepali people were not working en masse in Arab nation, and I were
the decision maker of Nepal, I would make Nepal the third country to vote in
favour of Israel in UN.(Often there are two only: USA and Israel)
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| kuraikura |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 11:16 AM
Dear Palestinian lovers and Israeli lovers,
You guys making a simple issue unnecessariy complex. The basic issue is LAND, and not democracy, islam or any religion for that matter. Give back the land taken from the Palestinians, their homes and the problem is solved. It is ridiculous to say that because you are Islamic or non-democratic, you are not worthy of getting your homeland back. Besides, who can be democratic under such military occupation?
So if we want a just peace and not just an armed peace in that part of the world, make room for two viable and dignified states. Going back to the pre 1967 borders is a good start on that path.
Remember, there is no peace without justice!
By the way, Israel used very very 'terrorist' methods to chase out the British from Palestine in 1948. Just read British dispatches from that era.
Om Shanti
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 11:30 AM
I don't know which land you are talking about and I don't know when was there the
state of Palestinians. If you are weak, and asking for land,as that is in the case of
Palestines, you better behave, rather than provoke the stronger force(Israel). Why
should Israel give land (not give back, btw) to the palestinians who vow to destroy
Israel?
As for land of Palestinians, will someone please tell me when was there such thing
as Palestinian state? After the destruction of Canaanites in 1125 BC, The Israelites
established state of Israel in the land now also being claimed by Palestinians. No
Arab nation would cede the land to Palestinians if Israle were not there. West
bank was claimed by Jordan until 1988, when king Hussain ceded the claim to
Palestinians (which of course because he didn't have that land). The Arabs
now crying for Palestinians better cry for Kurds killed en masse by Iraq and
Turkey and also fellow Moslems withouts state.
Palestinians were offered the best deal by Clinton but Arafat refused. Now he
wants that back. The only way Palestinians can get the land back is when they
make sure they won't harm Israel. No country wants your neighbor to give shelter
to your enemies, and Palestinians better do that in their Palestinian territory now.
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| ? |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 12:44 PM
As bias and critical of the palestinians this 'biswo' person claims to be, he should disqualify himself from the discussion anyhow. By the way the topic is no way sickening as some of your thoughts have been.
Lets create a scenario here, lets say a number of rich indians came to nepal, started buying off the land in large proportions. Later they bring their people to populate their property to dilute the native population. Thereafter they claim to be an independent nation or annex the property to India. By doing that, they not only do the perpetrate the sovereignty of a free nation but also force the native people off their land.
More or less, this is the same scenario in Israel. Agree or not, the whole issue is about land. How Israel had unjustifiably aggressed upon those living in their homeland and created them refugees in their own country.
The only solution to this problem, is the UN mandate dating back to 1947.
Lets see what it said about the partition and what the current situation really is.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M0082c.gif
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M3243r4.gif
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 01:00 PM
>As bias and critical of the palestinians this 'biswo' person claims to be, he should
>disqualify himself from the discussion anyhow
I love to leave the playground to you, if that is what you want. The way
you bring hypothetical Indian incursion scenario to Nepal just to get sympathy
is ludicrous. FYI, rich and powerful didn't come to Israel in 1947. It was those
victims of Nazis, who were refused just a few years ago entry to a lot of
European nations while fleeign Hitler, those poor and wretched ones, who
went to what is present day Israel, looking for their homeland.
I would love to see Mr ?, the qualified and informed one, join Hamas or Al Aqsa
and see things with his own eyes. Amen.
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| Which Land! |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 01:21 PM
What a insulting question, which land!
Palestinians just want the land they were staying before 1948 for centuries before they were driven out by the Israeli army. Give them back their ancestral homes and farms. Or would Mr. Bishow even deny that Palestinians ever lived in what is now Israel? Why were millions of Palestinians chased out of their homes to make room for the Jewish settlements. That that sound like 'ethnic cleansing' of sorts?
The fact that jews were prosecuted by Hitler does not justify meeting out the same treatment to the Palestinians...if anything it should make them more compassionate to the suffering of people made homeless, stateless and hopeless.
Ismail
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| KG |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 02:41 PM
Biswo:
I commend your support for Israel, but being blindly supportive of one side is ignorant. I did that with the Palestinians-I used to think suicide bombings were justified for the injustice, for the oppression, but I doubt that very much now. However, even Palestinian intellectuals have acknowledged that suicide bombings are not the way to go. What Israel is now belongs to both the parties that are in dispute. Like any fight, neither party has a saintly record. While Israel accuses PA of using terrorism to further their agenda, don't be fooled by the million dollar Israeli PR campaign, their prime minister Ariel Sharon aka Bulldozer, has not only bulldozed many Palestinian settlements, but is accused of war crimes. So, there it is. The facts are neither what I would have liked to hear nor you, biswo ji. Therefore, I think as a responsible third party, we should support who we want in our hearts, but should try to remain as impartial as we can when it comes to such complex matters.
All we can do is pray that someday Palestinian and Israeli children could play in Jerusalem as brothers and sisters and not as sworn enemies.
KG
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 03:35 PM
Hi KGji,
Do I believe there should ultimately be a Palestine state for Palestinians? Yes, I do.
But I reject the notion that under the pressure of terrorists and their suicide bombing,
Israel should surrender, carve its land up and give it in silver tray. United Nation has
said Palestinians should get a state, but has stopped short of saying which land, only
tentative land (Planned one) was proposed.
And I understand that Hanan Ashrawi and other Palestinian intellectuals published
one appeal after the latest suicide bombing condemning it. They better do that.
Because no palestinian organization has moral authority to ask for land with Israel
now after killing Israeli CIVILIANS with the act of terrorism. Don't forget the incident
in US soil on July 4th.
I don't think terrorists like Shekh Yasin, Arafat can ever achieve anything. Civilized
world better neglect them.(The govt of Nepal must be thanked for this!) We saw
Mr Arafat siding with Saddam in 90s, brining lethal weapons from Iran some months
ago, and there is no way we can believe he is committed to peace.
Clinton tried hard, and see how he was snubbed. Now , Mr Arafat is begging for the
same deal, but after 2000+ casualties. To ever think that you can make peace
with a man who straps small kids with bomb is to delude ourselves.
And for Ismail, if you consider "which land" an insult , fine. But reply me, when was
there a free Palestine state? 3000 years ago? 4000 years ago? Why not use same
logic and ask for new state of Bavaria, Bohemia, Prussia, Maya, Inca etc. etc? And
are other Arab states willing to give up lands to other ethnic minorities like Kurds and
Palestinians?
I am particularly proud of those Jewish people,who were killed in pogrom of Ukraine,
concentration camps in Europe, but later found a land to live in Israel, and through
their hard work, are one of the most successful people in the world, and the only
democracy in middle east. Arab states, riddled by corruption, under the autocratic
regimes, and brutes like Saddam and Khameini, better stop being jealous of Israel
and create some good universities and institutions in their land.
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| ? |
Posted
on 07-Jul-02 11:32 PM
Have you heard of Zionist conference of 1897?
Ok, here it goes:
In 1897, Theodor Herzl convened about 200 Jewish leaders from around the world in Basel, Switzerland to discuss the condition of the Jewish People, The delegates at the meeting, or Congress, decided to create a movement whose goal it was to establish a Jewish Homeland.
It was their referendum to create a Jewish homeland in the present Israel area. The people there before in majority were arabs and jews were in minority. During and after WW II, the holocaust victims flocked out of Germany to Israel to avoid facing persecution. When they did that, they displaced the arabs who were already settled in the area by claiming it to be their homeland.
So, I dont see the difference between the scenario I made out of India and what happened in Israel.
And excuse me, dont tell me to join Hamas or Al Aqsa, I know I wont but you might as well join the Jewish defence league or some Jew right wingers group. My whole topic of discussion has been the sentiment prevalent in the whole world about Israel. Before the war of 67, world looked upon Israel as the defender and as the champion of their people.
Now the situation has changed, in any comparison, Israel fares far superior that Palestines. Did you know that for every Israeli killed, 5 palestines are killed. I mean I guess its ok for the Israelis to defend themselves by killing those who were responsible but the collateral damage is not justified. Go look at the link I posted at the beginning of this topic. I hope you find some sympathy for those people. Because I do. I stuck my nose on this topic because it seems to affect people all over the world directly or indirectly when something happens in that region.
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| Yohan |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 12:52 AM
Biswoji mera bara bhai,
KG parai, Duniya sara harai;
Biswoji pai hum kitna khus hai!
When it comes to the problem of the Palestinian people, they are the victims of Muslims and Arab Zeal. If they are left alone to decide with Israel in absence of any Muslim zealot, all Palestinians would have naturalised as Israelis by now and lived as prosperous people to the envy of other Arabs. Even now after suffering loss and damage playing the role as stooges of Terrorist like Yaser Arafat and his likes, if they deny all their leaders leading them to destroy the Jewish State and ask Israel to settle their problem for peace vowing no afinity to any of the Arab regimes, there is hope.
I am not hate monger as KG elsewhere mentioned. I am a human being capable of understanding and sympathising the human suffering. KG should not take the picture of suffering women and children carefully avoiding the role of the leadership causing it and their false cause, to gain sympathy.
Unless the Muslims edit and re-write their Quoran making peace with others, especially the Jews and Christians, peace is a distant mirage in their desert journey.
Look at the problems in the World in General, where ever there is violence and killing, Muslim hands will be traced behind or seen openly in the scene. ….
Israel has the right to exist as a Nation with Temple and sacrifices (in the third Holy place of Islam- the Jewish choice being also not in the unholy but holy place according to Islam, the Muslims should cede their claims over Jerusalem) or else should exercise the might to do it.
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| ? |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 04:20 AM
All come down to this really. Your religious prejudice against the muslims. Its so sad.
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| KG |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 11:38 AM
Dear Biswo and Yohan:
Thanks for enlightening me with the historical facts that get thrown out every day on CNN and other American media tainted with pro Israeli sentiments. One day when we, the Nepalis are the victims of a greater power like India and China, and we have to take arms, perhaps sadly you guys will understand the frustration of the Palestinian brothers and sisters. Don't get me wrong. Israel should have the right to exist alongside with the Palestinians since that is what powerful countries like Britain and US wanted it. But I really like what a software programmer in Seattle wrote in the Seattle Times. One line that stuck in my head -" Israel can not buy its security with Palestinian blood."
You guys want peace and security for Israel, take away the gunships and war criminals like Sharon and put reasonable people like Shimon Peres. You want some stability? Stop bulldozing Palestinian homes with US dollar funded bulldozers. Give the Palestinians some hope, any hope for that matter. You don't understand how arrogant the Israeli army can be? Go ask any hotel owner about the treatment they get from young Israelis that come on vacation. I can tell you a thousand stories when innocent Nepalis were mistreated, cheated by Israeli tourists. Go ahead, be blind supporters of Israel and ignore the poor and helpless Palestinians, betrayed by everyone. Israel has its army and the "mighty" America to back it up. It doesn't need more people like you. It is Palestinians that need any peace loving, justice loving individual that walk this planet. That is all I have to say about that.
Peace,
KG
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| ddud |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 12:35 PM
Of all the tourists that come to Nepal Israeli's are the worst. Believe me this is through experience. Even a simple villager know this as a fact. Not coz he was taught that Israeli are greedy, arrogant and just a pain in the a..., but coz Israeli tourist time and again show their true self.
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| ? |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 12:48 PM
KG,
You put the words where their mouth is.
As Jeff Greenfield of CNN puts it, history has shown that the aggressor has to give some space to the oppressed to achieve stability. Take vietnam, korea, Germany, Britain, even US. So , its time for Israel to take that step now. Or else, the news will be the same, of horrible destruction of lives, property and ever growing enmity between two side just a different day.
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| ?!? |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 01:05 PM
No wonder people post inflammatory tripe here. Zero accountability.
In the fine spirit of this thread, this one goes out to the jhaneys in the Middle East:
"Hatred is the only thing that keeps us together." ~R. D. Davies
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| ? |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 01:19 PM
Whats wrong with simple discussion?
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| sho' 'nuff |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 01:39 PM
ok, i'll keep it simple for you. nothing is wrong with simple discussion. see? we just had a simple discussion. you originated, i commented, you questioned, i responded. perhaps you didn't like what i said and vicy versy, but it was an unfettered, simple discussion.
i guess you've got me stumped on this one. so, you tell me, what is wrong with simple discussion?
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| ? |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 01:41 PM
Good then.
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| nonsequitor |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 01:48 PM
"Good then" is a strange way to answer your own original question.
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| ? |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 02:38 PM
Are you trying to play different person or just playing stupid?
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| nice try |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 04:31 PM
neither. nice try, but you're the one who started this idiotic thread in the first place. as for playing stupid, method acting is really paying off for you.
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| bitter truth |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 05:05 PM
>Right Education will make you think
>rationally. Now killing fellow humans is not
>rational. So get my point???
?,
sorry to reply back late.
okay, so we all higher education aspirants have started thinking rationally. haven't we ?don't try to justify your point when you know it can not be justified by any means. I don't see a ray of hope; and education? you think education will wipe out the anti-indian sentiments( which is so called unfounded) in nepalese people? It's hard to get your point with your words. May be you can enlighten us with something that makes sense.
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| Yohan |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 02:00 AM
Hay KG! Don't compare China and India aggressively taking Nepal someday a case to be compared with Israel and Palestine. China and India have no Historical Right over Nepal although Nepal has in some parts of India and Tibet. Chinese and Indians have their own country. There is no ground why they should come to swallow a small balance part suffering with poverty hunger and fights.
Jews can be bad individually. It is for everybody to see. God calls them rebellious and stiffnaked people, sotish children who show no desire for truth etc.etc. But that is not the point here. It is the question of the Jewish State and the Palestinian State and a dispute at a higher level over the rights of the Jews in their own promised ancient homeland. The Arabs should quit their demand in the Israeli territory that is not big enough to spare. If it means peace for everybody, why should the Arab claims continue against peace, at high risk?
All those Palestinians could become Israelis overnight in that case with both home and State.
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| ? |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 02:15 AM
Ok tell me, why do we have to hate India so much? According to you, so much as to go there and kill their people in few years. Better, tell me If you do, why do you hate the Indians? So, I will try to 'enlighten' you how if you were better educated, it would help wipe out the problem of anti-India sentiment.
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| KG |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 10:38 AM
Yohan:
Israel being the promised land by God? That is some bullshit if you ask me. First of all, you would have to prove to me that God exists, which I don't think you can convince me. Then where do you have concrete proof that "God" promised the Jews what is present day Israel? Please consult with your theologians and give me the answer.
I have to tell you my other friends in the thread that the original Christian holy books were written in an anceint Hebrew language that is not in use anymore. What is found now is a translation of a translation. How credible and reliable could this source be if it was translated so many times?
If you were to argue that after World War II and due so much persecution the Jews had to go through that they deserved their own homeland, I would definitely agree with that. However, Israel has to recognize that kicking Palestinians out of their homeland, the land where they were born is unacceptable. If you are born in the United States of America, you are automatically registered as a citizen. I simply want to see justice being served to the millions of ordinary Palestinians, who have been compelled to become refugees in their own homeland. If you could understand the plight of the Tibetans, the ethnic Nepalis in Bhutan, then why should we ignore the plight of the poor Palestinians?
Palestinians should stop the violence? Sure in theory, that is what everyone wants. But what have the Tibetans got by being peaceful? Pray tell me my dear friend? Are you going to tell me that Tibet too belongs to the Chinese?
I rest my case.
KG
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 03:07 PM
Hi all,
I tried to post here three times, but I couldn't post. It just kept on saying my posting
contains banned words, which is ,of course, the price we are paying for automating
the monitoring of postings. I hope this posting goes through.
Anyway, a quick reply, I disagree with Yohan's view on Quran. I don't have problem
with what is written in Quran. My issue is with terrorists who are killing innocent
children in Israel. Do they deserve land? The teorrists? they deserve jail. I don't
have problem with moslems. ?ji told me to join right winger Jewish group. For your
information, I am a card carrying liberal, a proud member of ACLU.
Now, KGji thinks Peres is good and Sharon is bad. Excuse me, to me they are same,
both trying to protect Israelis and both are elected leaders. Peres has supported
all the recent incursions, and even yesterday, he was talking with Saib Erakat etc
with agreement of Sharon. I disagree with Netanyahu, but Sharon is a nice guy:-)
And ?ji, you obviously hate Israel more than loving Palestinians, I guess. The title
of this thread is just a testomony of that. I would have taken your more seriously
if you had a title like why people hate Israeli hardliners or something like that. But
no, you just chose this inflammatory title. Best luck in your pursuit:-) In my
opinion, hate mongering is not productive business:-)
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| ? |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 03:26 PM
Mr/Ms Biswo, hate-mongering is not my agenda. In our conversation, you've mention of killing civilians more than I did. Hell, you've even suggested me to join Hamas/Al Aqsa on numerous occasions. The topic reads 'No wonder people hate Israel', it doesn't read 'I hate Israel'. So how did you come to such a conclusion as me hating Israel than loving palestinians is just absurd. The losers in the conflict have always been the palestinians and my sympathy for them is justified anyway. I have never cordoned the suicide bombings nor the killings by Israelis in the name of the stopping terrorism. If anybody can solve the situation more or less single handedly, it can be the Israelis not the palestinians. The right of the Palestinians to return to their homeland cannot be abridged by the Israelis in the name of any matter. Right now, they cannot return because the Israeli claim, if palestinians were to return back, it would dilute their jewish majority. What a ri-COCK-culous thinking!!! shame on them.
By the way, people do dislike Israel more than Palestine, number by number.
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| sally |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 03:32 PM
I do feel that if the Palestinians (wishful thinking) had pursued their cause non-violently, they would have had the whole world on their side, and would very likely have had their own country by now. Heck, they almost got half of Jerusalem a year or so ago; that plan went by the wayside entirely because of the Palestinian actions. (The fact that Sharon acted like a jerk in visiting the Temple Mount can hardly be used as an excuse for an intentional strategy of mass murder.)
You may say, "what has Tibet gained by non-violence?," but remember that Tibet is pitted against China--not exactly a country likely to be influenced by the West--whereas a theoretical non-violent Palestinian cause would be pitted against a country that is Western in values, Western in funding, and eminently influencable by the West. Particularly by the Jewish lobby in the US, which is quite liberal on virtually every other matter. The West, as Gandhi understood, is very attracted to causes that use non-violence to show their righteousness. It's hard to argue against non-violence; ultimately it always wins respect and support.
Like many people I know (including Jewish people who have lived in Israel), I am thoroughly sympathetic to the Palestinians and would certainly support them--except for the not-exactly-small fact that they're trying to get what they want by means of murder.
Not self-defense. Not even brutal military force (which is bad enough.) But intentional, cold-blooded, calculated slaughter.
Every time a peace process seems to make some progress, a new wave of suicide bombers (who, by the way, are defying the Koran's injunction against suicide, which is why they prefer the term "holy warriors" or "human bombs" although, in fact, they do commit suicide) goes off to murder, quite un-Islamically, more innocent bystanders.
How can giving in to terror do anything but promote more terror from other groups, in other places? Many Israeli people would actually like to compromise, but how can they, given the way the Palestinians are choosing to "debate"?
Those who care about the Palestinian cause really should do their best to oppose suicide bombings. That may not be fruitful, given the millenarial and revenge-driven philosophy that has taken root in the last decade among the Palestinians. But it would certainly be far more honorable and humane than making excuses for a violent, deluded, and self-destructive strategy that hurts the very cause it claims to help.
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| ? |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 03:45 PM
And ACLU reads American Civil Liberties Union not Jewish Defence League. And excuse me, Liberals tend to left not right. So, ACLU is definitely not right for that matter. It has nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine problem. If you are so ardent about being a liberal, you may agree that most of the liberals do think that the palestinians have been victimized through generations.
IMHO, Liberals would be the the most vocal among political ideologist, to claim that Palestines do have the right to return to their homeland and, creation of the palestinian state.
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| ? |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 04:02 PM
Sally, the simple question is, have the palestinians been victimized or not? Have they the right to return to their homeland and ultimately, a palestinian state? Unless, you give palestinians some hope, how can you gain any peace? Also, you seem to sound as if the whole problem have been the palestinian people. For that matter, how many palestinians live in this world? I guess, probably 10-20 million. And how many suicide bombings have we known? Not in millions, or in thousands, probably a few hundred. You should realize that extremists exist in every society, there are american extremists, definitely israeli extremists (Yigal Amir ??), tibetan extremists, Nepalese extremist (maoists) and hence forth. You do have to accept the fact that both sides have contributed to the problem. Its just that Israelis have more discretion to bring down this problem than the Palestinians do. Do you think suicide can be one's hobby or something that's being done for fun? No its not. Its a clear act of desperation and a statement that a serious problem exists which better be solved sooner rather late.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 06:05 PM
> Do you think suicide can be one's hobby or something that's being done for fun? No its
>not. Its a clear act of desperation
OK, ?ji, So you are justifying these acts, huh. How can teenagers know the depth
of reasonings behind suicide attacks and be so desperate as to attack Israeli
children in a bus with suicide bombing?
Frankly, truth is Israel is sorrounded by cruel Arab leaders who have never hesitated
to kill their own people. Massacre is a culture in a lot of Arab states. Killing, stoning,
hanging , without judiciary etc is a norm.No wonder some Palestinians have learned
that thuggery and tried to apply that in Israel. I don't think those teenagers
know anything subtly and they were totally brainwashed to die. They were pressed
to die in swamps of terrors , where killing children is glorified and considered worthy
of martyrdom, based around Arab, and it is necessary for the world
to first dry up those swamps, otherwise unwanted products like Al Qaida and
Hezbollah will keep on terrorizing world in the name of Palestinian cause.
And if Palestinians want to recaputre their nationalist agenda, they better get
rid of the terrorists within them. Remember Satyagraha of 2042, when Ram Raja
Prasad Singh blasted a bomb in KTM killing innocent civilians, the first thing
Krishna Prasad Bhattarai did was he stopped Satyagraha. No legitimate movement
lets itself be used by terrorists.
And yes, I am Mr, if you insist to write Mr Biswo afterwards. I would prefer Biswo
only btw ?ji. For your info, ACLU supports Palestinian cause, but not Suicide
bombing cause. And you would find in my previous posting that I support
creation of one independent Palestinian state. And that should be a state,
not a fiefdom of some terrorists.
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| ? |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 06:55 PM
Unless you're a palestinian, how could you even fathom the depth of thinking and reasoning of a palestinian civilian? Face it, they are victimized and you're not. You are as much of a spectator as I am. You never know what they're facing but realize this, its bad.
If I were a palestinian:
First, I have been thrown of my property FORCEFULLY by someone who claims my land was their god given property. Secondly, I dont have a citizenship and there is no place I can resort to get things done relating to development, security, education, employment and etcetera. Thirdly, I am not the only one who is facing the problem and as a fact, there are other 10 million or so do. Out of frustration, some of my people go bomb, now I have to face the consequence.
Isn't this the situation there, Mr/Ms Biswo there? Correct me if I am wrong. I dont give as much damn, to those people who blow up themselves and kill other Israelis but what about the remaining millions. What was their fault? So much as to be continually harassed and even death on some ocassion.
I probably guess, your build-up of sentiments comes from the media. As if they(palestinians) were a bunch of savages doing every thing possible to create anarchy and disruption. More to be precise, you have already set in your mind a stereotype of the all palestinians as uncivilized, heartless suicide bombers. You sound more pompous that an Israeli commoner. Be rational and practical, palestinians bowing out of suicide game in an overnight's time is as dream-ladenned as the city of atlantis. It could have been done right about the time when Israel was created but due to errors on particularly Britain and the future Israelis part resulted this problem.
The lukid party (ruling party in israel) voted to not have palestianian state recently. So seems to me Israeli government doesn't want an easy way out anyway. More destruction of property and lives on both. You biasness is simple, you zeal against muslims and particularly arabs, face it!!! Time after time you have remarked that.
About ACLU thing, you dont have to mention me what it stands for.
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| LamjungKunchha |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 07:22 PM
One notion Mr. ?ji seems to forget is there are a lot of Arabs living in Israel happily who enjoy more freedom and posperity than most of the Arabs in Arab Nations. They also have a strong political power. The reason Barak's party lost few years ago after the death of Robin was Arab Israelis abstained from ballots to show their dissatisfaction.
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| Yohan |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 11:32 PM
KG ji, the case of the Lamaist Tibetans and ethnic Nepalis of Bhutan should not be compared with that of the Palestininians. While Tibetans suffer due to the pride of their Lamaist Buddhism, making people to eat their shit and drink their piss (as Hindus drink cows' piss to purify themselves from ritual uncleanness), the ethnic Nepali Bhutanese suffer in absence of the able and selfless visionary leadership to co-ordinate the efforts of the disadvantaged to bring justice in place.
Tibetans have not demanded the destruction of the Chinese Nation as Palestinians vow on Israel. The case of ethnic Nepali Bhutanese is a result of demanding equality and justice for every Bhutanese, not for demanding to demolish the Bhutanese State. There is moral in the demands of the Tibetans and Bhutanese Nepalis if the International community understand and support the cause.
And about the issue of proving the existance of God, He is not a prisioner in the Cell of the Theologians. He can not be found there to take out and present on your demand. God is a Spirit and can be communed only in the Spirit. You should have faith in God by the very things that we see He has done, ourselves included. God's presence can be felt, He can not be seen personally.
When the Nazarene walked in the villages and cities of Israel, He was God manifested in the flesh. Although it was not necessary for Him to gain our support, He proved the same by giving sight to the blind, healing the sick, exorcing the demons and raising back the dead to life which none did before without Him. He showed his love to the lost and wicked mankind by giving His life a ransom for us by going into the humiliation of dying on the Cross.
What more evidence do you need, KG? Are these not enough evidences to begin with. If the theologians deny Him, He continues to exist. It is blindness and foolishness on the part of the Theologians to err against Him and failing to convince you of His very Existance.
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| Truth |
Posted
on 09-Jul-02 11:42 PM
>By the way, people do dislike Israel more than Palestine, number by number
What is your source? Don't write what you think in your mind as what 'people
think', all right? Show me the source of this datum.
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| Yohan |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 12:28 AM
KG ji, the case of the Lamaist Tibetans and ethnic Nepalis of Bhutan should not be compared with that of the Palestininians. While Tibetans suffer due to the pride of their Lamaist Buddhism, making people to eat their shit and drink their piss (as Hindus drink cows' piss to purify themselves from ritual uncleanness), the ethnic Nepali Bhutanese suffer in absence of the able and selfless visionary leadership to co-ordinate the efforts of the disadvantaged to bring justice in place.
Tibetans have not demanded the destruction of the Chinese Nation as Palestinians vow on Israel. The case of ethnic Nepali Bhutanese is a result of demanding equality and justice for every Bhutanese, not for demanding to demolish the Bhutanese State. There is moral in the demands of the Tibetans and Bhutanese Nepalis if the International community understand and support the cause.
And about the issue of proving the existance of God, He is not a prisioner in the Cell of the Theologians. He can not be found there to take out and present on your demand. God is a Spirit and can be communed only in the Spirit. You should have faith in God by the very things that we see He has done, ourselves included. God's presence can be felt, He can not be seen personally.
When the Nazarene walked in the villages and cities of Israel, He was God manifested in the flesh. Although it was not necessary for Him to gain our support, He proved the same by giving sight to the blind, healing the sick, exorcing the demons and raising back the dead to life which none did before without Him. He showed his love to the lost and wicked mankind by giving His life a ransom for us by going into the humiliation of dying on the Cross.
What more evidence do you need, KG? Are these not enough evidences to begin with. If the theologians deny Him, He continues to exist. It is blindness and foolishness on the part of the Theologians to err against Him and failing to convince you of His very Existance.
I am not a disciple of any Theologian and I find no need to consult the confused expert who answers believers in God that there is God and to aethist he says "there is no god"
Theologians have answer for both according to their taste and choice. For them, their "belly" is their "God"
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| ? |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 05:10 AM
I dislike Israel's action and thats my feeling. As far as others, the only country with a population that actively supports Israel's action is the US. And the reason for that is the presence of their lobbying group AIPAC, the second largest lobbying group in the US. Every other country (and I am excluding the Arab) has in way or so condemned Israeli actions.
So, You tell me the general sentiment about Israel in the world.
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| sally |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 08:25 AM
Question Mark wrote:
"Sally, the simple question is, have the palestinians been victimized or not?"
Unfortunately, neither the questions nor the answers are simple. Except, perhaps, for one: is a strategy of violence, with innocent civilians as intentional victims, a justifiable response to victimization? Your answer is yes. Mine is no.
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| KG |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 12:44 PM
Mr. Yohan:
This time you have gone too far. I thought I would show some respect, but you don't deserve that. You racist, narrow minded, white washed, Christianized brother, listen to me carefully. You want to put down the Lamaist Tibetans, as you say, by mentioning only a few details that need to be changed. Listen to me, Tibetan Buddhists don't sell their religion in the market place like your missionaries, they don't try to convert people by bribing them with money, clothes, and other goods. Those who embrace the Buddhist way of life, do so because they want to, not because some missionaries gave them money and clothes in return for becoming Christians!
You arrogant piece of shit, you have attacked my hertiage and thus most of Central Asia. May your wise God help you when he finds out that you speak so hatefully of his own Children. Who the hell are you to judge? Why is your Christian God superior than others'? Why do you have problems with the Palestinians' sturggle for independence, for reclaiming the land, which is rightfully theirs? Who are you? Is your mother proud of you?
My other friends, forgive me for sounding harsh. But this is only in self defense. Perhaps you guys ought to be offended by the remarks this half-wit has made about the Hindus as well. It is people like this fellow, Uncle Tom Nepalis, that don't know anything about their roots, who spread the wildfire of hatred, of division and ignorance. Don't get me wrong here. For all the peace loving, respectful Christians, I have nothing but love, but when this brother comes straight out and throws scud missiles of prejudice at someone's way of life, I can not remain silent.
Please forgive my unkind words, but I am left with no choiece.
KG
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| KG |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 01:08 PM
Dear Sally:
I hope I don't come across as an ignorant person hating on Israel. One of my closest friend is Jewish, although his hippy parents were Sikh, which made for interesting conversations with strangers. I am simply perhaps a little too passionate about the plight of the ordinary Palestinians. And as you have suggested, I believe that suicide bombings hurt their case, therefore responsible Palestinians ought to crack down on these guys, given the Palestinians can rebuild their policing capability.
Realistically speaking, however, too much credit goes to Martin Luther King and the Gandhis of the world. But what about Subash Chandra Bosh, who led the resistance movement, armed Indians fighting the British, giving them a hard time? What about the Black Panther Party, their role in the African Americans' struggle for their Civil Rights? People just love to believe in the flowery aspects of the world. I don't think for once that Martin Luther's "I have a dream" speech and his non-violent protests would alone have compelled White America to hand over so much freedom over to the African Americans.
I am not advocating violence, but as Jawaharlal Nehru once said " One must speak softly, but carry a big stick".
Peace,
KG
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| ? |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 01:10 PM
Sally, as rabid israeli supporter you sound or are, dont assume for me to be the same about palestinians. The palestinian cause is just, their right to return to their homeland and has had several fronts fighting for it. Its plain and simple as that. Any complexities drawn is your own perception but not how the real problem is. You say 'no' on the question whether palestinian are victimized or not. I infer then that you dont support a palestinian state or their right to get their homeland. I call it your own cocoon of delusion.
Some of the Israeli supporters in this board draw conclusions immediately after judging the palestinian extremists. This is non representational of the palestinian people. Most of them are not strapped to bomb jackets and have no part on what goes on. It is not a democracy where palestinian people vote to have suicide bombing in Israel. Israel demands the stoppage of the suicide bombers but what can a palestinian civilian do? Give them some hope as to the peace process. If you want immediate result, let the displaced and refugees go back to their homeland. How more simpler can the solution get than that?
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| boundary what boundary ! |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 01:30 PM
While Teaching My Daughter To Read Maps
Vijaya Malla
Boundaries are here drawn with sanguine blood
Like ridges raised around the farms
Look! around the expanses of each and every nation
This is India, this is Pakistan,
And this is the line sublime
Soaked in blood of the Hindu and the Mussulman.
This is Germany, this is England,
This is Russia, this is Japan,
And there are Nagashaki and Hiroshima
Ravaged by atom bomb!
This is the skeleton of Europe,
Haunted by Hitler's ghost.
This is America,
The nation of dollars,
The inventor of atom bomb,
And message of peace.
Look anywhere you like,
You will see the blood sanguine making an enclosure
Where-in the men are imprisoned
Like pigeons shut in a cage.
Daughter dear!
(A day will come)
When all will join together,
Holding hands,
Bound in an embrace tight -
The Negroes, the Aryans, the Mongols,
The Polynesians, the Dravidians and the Kols,
Everything is wiping out,
Turning their eye-cups upside down,
Those lines of blood
With their tears..
Then ,
After ages -
Some day will come
When inspite of searches long
You won't find these red lines there.
Translated by: anonymous
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| sally |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 01:31 PM
"Rabid Israeli supporter"? LOL. Hardly.
Read my post again. The question I asked ("is a strategy of violence, with innocent civilians as intentional victims, a justifiable response to victimization?") cannot be interpreted as being synonymous to the question "are the Palestinians victimized?" I didn't ask that question; I did, however, answer it within the course of my own question, since I did mention Palestinian victimization. You misunderstood what you read.
Of course the Palestinians are victimized. Of course they deserve a homeland. But suicide bombers and their supporters and justifiers don't only hurt innocent Israelis; they also harm innocent Palestinians, since they are crippling the Palestinian cause and helping nobody but Israeli hardliners like Sharon.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 04:45 PM
Before you guys hijack this subject and turn to religion etc, I would like
to remind you all that this thread is not about religion, but was originally
started as the posters glowing approval of "hate Israel" theme. ["No
wonder", he said, "People hate Israel"!]
And I don't think I will be able to change anyone here. But, here is what I think,
if Palestinians think they can get a state by violence & by encouraging suicide
bombing, then well, go ahead, under the illustratious leadership of Al Aqsa,
Tanzem or Hamas. One thing is sure, Israel is strong enough to withstand
all these suicide attacks. As long as terrorists, backed by Syria and Iran and
Iraq, operate in mideast, this problem should be better handled by the Isralis
themselves. Israel is not standing in the stand of Mideast in the mercy of
the fanatics.
If Palestinians want to get international help, they better dissociate themselves
from these suicide bombers, and stop treating the family of suicide bombers
with respect. This problem will be solved, as someone once said, only when
"Palestinians will love their children more than they hate Israel".
Violence ? No. Hate-mongering? No. For those who say Palestinians are so
desperate that they are compelled to commit suicide bombing, it is just a
jocular pretext. Our grandfathers were more suppressed under Rana regime,
[No school, no rule, Rana used to take women of the street if they liked them etc]
but they fought with Rana army, and didn't kill the kids of Rana rulers.
In 2046, none of us asked for blood of Shruti Shah, Nirajan Shah or sons or
daugher of Mandaleys. Resistance without morality is crime, not resistance.
And, finally, I agree with Sally in all but one : I don't think present day Sharon is an
extremist. His current tenure is very laudable, and he has shown extremely good
leadership in his accomodation of liberals like Peres. Though, I am a supporter
of the likes of Peres and Barak.
oohi
" a proud supporter of indepedent, and democratic state of Israel"
Biswo
:-)
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| ? |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 05:20 PM
I dont have to turn the topic to anything. I can discuss about this issue at any level you want me to. Right here, anywhere, anyplace and anytime.
About Sharon, he's being prosecuted at the international crime court in Belgium for crime against humanity. I hope you knew that. What a leader for you guys to praise or follow? Sharon's resume against Palestinians alone will make all the suicide bombings and killings look like a small accident.
Your point has always been that you're a blind/rabid/enthusiatic/ardent supporter of Israel. As a matter of fact, your uppity is so prevalent when you suggest (as if an order) to palestinians that 'they better stop or else....'. Donot compare what we faced with ranas to that of Palestinians. You analogy is totally irrevalent. Just look at the way things functioned back then. The palestinians have no compulsion to remain unconcerned or subjugated.So, the way you support Israel makes me contemplate if ranas were to still rule and suppress us, you would be on their side.
A person in this thread noted:
'too much credit goes to Martin Luther King and the Gandhis of the world. But what about Subash Chandra Bosh, who led the resistance movement, armed Indians fighting the British, giving them a hard time? ......'
Which is so true in my book.
They have their right to go back to their homeland more than those Jews who immigrated to Israel fleeing persecution. And what a sad dillema.
|
| ? |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 05:29 PM
You mention of Nepali politics compels me to add this,
Nepali Kangres, Jinda Bad isn't it?
And look where your leaders have dragged this nation to. You probably wont leave the USA, your hippy-liberal, PC haven but I will to repatriate the damage done by your kisunji, girija babu, sailu nanu and the company.
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| do |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 06:04 PM
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French... What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct... If they [the Jews] must look to Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds."
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| do |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 06:06 PM
GANDHI ON THE PALESTINE CONFLICT - 1938
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French... What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct... If they [the Jews] must look to Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 07:52 PM
>You mention of Nepali politics compels me to add this,
>Nepali Kangres, Jinda Bad isn't it?
>And look where your leaders have dragged this nation to. You probably wont leave the
>USA, your hippy-liberal, PC haven but I will to repatriate the damage done by your
>kisunji, girija babu, sailu nanu and the company.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Your point has always been that you're a blind/rabid/enthusiatic/ardent supporter of
>Israel. As a matter of fact, your uppity is so prevalent when you suggest (as if an
''''''
?ji,
You definitely have your own style of discussion, which I don't approve. Am I
Congressi? No. Am I what you would say with all those epithets? No. It is sad
that you argue by producing baseless things. No wonder, with all these lies ,
you want to discuss at any time.
This discussion doesn't make any sense, because your replies are full with
imagination. If you had read my postings, and resorted to proven facts,
I would have enjoyed the discussion. With your bias, and your "hate Israel"
them so inveterately evident everywhere, and I don't think I should take
your hip-shootings as intellectual arguments. Good luck.
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| KG |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 10:16 PM
Biswo is obviously a Israeli supporter since he thinks that our grandfathers suffered under Ranas more than the Palestinians. What the hell do you know about suffering to judge the level of suffering and injustice? Perhaps we should have killed the damn Ranas for what they did, but we didn't and that is that. I don't think it is right that some Palestinians should be using suicide bombers as a way to fight the Israeli oppression. But my dear friend, Vietnamese used the same tactics against American soldiers too.
Their land has been forcefully been taken away by the Israelis, America continues to give them a whopping 3 bllion dollars in aid, money that some Palestinian Americans could be paying in taxes too! What do you want them to do? Sit aside and watch as Sharon and his bulldozers destroy yet another Palestinian settlement and invite Orthodox Jews with AK 47s to inhabit the newly formed Jewish settlements? Please tell me what they should do? Like the Tibetans, they have been refugees in their own homeland since 1947. I don't see the Palestinian struggle as a religious conflict, it is purely a politcal one. Some like Yohan would like to turn it into one. How different is this guy than the leader of Hamas who uses similar strategy, trying to hijack religion to further his political interests?
Millions of Palestinians are paying the price for a grave mistake the British made in 1947. The land they had promised to both Arabs and Jews has become Israel, the Jewish state, with the Palestinians living in abject poverty, in refugee camps. They are fighting for what is theirs against all odds, fighting gunships and American made Apache helicopters, and tanks with just some guns and rocks. I commend them for their bravery, for I am a Nepali unlike you Uncle Toms, who will buy into the million dollar Israeli PR campaign and try to brainwash the less read people with plain bull shit. I remember a line from a movie "I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees."
KG
|
| Yohan |
Posted
on 10-Jul-02 11:53 PM
Except for few issues touching my sentiments at home, i.e. the plight of the Tibetans under the foolish guidance of the soul destroying Dalai Lama and that of the ethnic Nepalis of Bhutan, I would have picked up arms against the Godless KG to get rid of this menace for ever. All the distortions and misunderstandings appear because of bias already settled in favour of SATAN. That is why only part of the response is regarded without considering the other half joined often by "but"...etc.
However this being only a free discussion of openions and not passing resolutions for action, we can take it lightly as no one has to bear the consequenses of the cost of foolishness right now. I will stop commenting on this thread as this is going to newhere, to no logical conclusion and becoming like a Nepal-Bhutan bileteral Talks on the Bhutanese refugees and this KG's stand is like that ofa Bhutanese Lyonpo (minister).
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| ??? |
Posted
on 11-Jul-02 12:11 AM
It seems that this thread is also going to be never solving Israel palestine land dispute. INTERESTING !!! HEHEHE
|
| Truth |
Posted
on 11-Jul-02 08:21 AM
Killing military is fine, and in Vietnam they killed military, not school going American children.KG obviously doesn't have idea of what he is talking about.
We are talking about killing deliberately innocent civilians. If Israel had reciprocated the same way, Palestinians would have been extinct by now.
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| ? |
Posted
on 11-Jul-02 07:35 PM
Typical 'yellow dog liberal reaction'.:-) Thats what I call it.
So far starting with the thread and the subsequent comments, I have probably listed more valid sources than you have. You're arguments against me have been based on your imaginations (which I guess comes from the biased US media) and if any, biblical era.
Moving on, You've neither condemned the killings of the palestinians nor accepted that the've been victimization by the Israelis and not even that they deserve an equal palestinian state unconditionally.
I can't and wont argue about your perception on me or my intellect. I am not running for a popularity contest here.
The thread started with 'No wonder people hate Israel' and I think you read 'I hate Israel'. If you have that kind of problems, I suggest, you've got to sort it out with yourself.
I will say this once more and if you dont like it, argue, I hate Israeli incursions seeking terrorists which is a cover up for revenge against innocent civlians. Seeking blood for blood and eye for an eye. I assume thats how the Israeli democracy works. Its sad considering how Israeli jews were supposed to be the persecuted ones, I didn't expect them to treat others like how they've been treated or been thru. Guess, I was wrong.
chow
|
| KG |
Posted
on 12-Jul-02 12:35 AM
Brother Yohan:
You are a hypocrit. Atleast, I don't claim to be a Christian and then threaten to take up arms against a harmless stranger typing away somewhere on the other end of the world. As I have said before, I am disillusioned with organized religion for creating division and conflicts. You would be the perfect example, the poster boy to illustrate my point. Your hatred and ignorance towards Arabs and muslims in general is apparent to all the readers here. How do you sleep at night? Do you have a conscience? Need I say more?
If that wasn't enough, you have attacked Buddhists and Hindus. Of all the people of Nepal, you should be the last one to talk like this. Christians are a minority in Nepal, did you know? I, myself have nothing against Christians or gays for that matter. As long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on me, I am okay with that.
As for Truth's attack on my comments regarding the Vietnamese using suicide bombers, I was merely citing other examples of it. Nowhere did I say it was okay. Besides, your name ought to be Untruth, with such biased opinions. You guys are simply racists, have pre-conditioned bias against muslims and Arabs. I hope you guys know that during the Crusades, ordered by the Pope, not only were the Arabs slaughtered in Jerusalem, but so were Jews.
I don't think it's cool that innocent Israelites have to die during suicide attacks, but the Palestinians don't have the kind of money that American Jews have-handy cash to put politicans in their pockets(lobbying). They are poor, desperate, fed up with the bullying by Israeli army, betrayal from their own leaders, other Arab nations, and a littany of other reasons. I am sorry to spill out the truth. And you trust "mighty" America to act in the best interest of the ordinary Palestinian? Get a grip on reality. Except for Mr. Collin Powell, all the other red necks-aka Rumsfeld and cheney would rather have a war! How the hell should I trust the CIA and the FBI that pushed crack to the inner cities to dismantle the incredible unity and power African Americans had during the civil rights struggle? Americans are great people and it is one of the best countries in the world. However, it has its contradictions too.
All the world understand this except for American diplomats and some of our friends that the Palestinians are victims, pushed to the corner, with state of the art weaponry in their face, and expected to remain calm, to live peacefully. Think for yourself my dear friends. If you still think they should be extinct like Truth, I mean Untruth, may Yohan's superior God help you.
That's all,
KG
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