| Username |
Post |
| Paschim |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 06:53 AM
http://www.nepalnews.com.np/ntimes/issue101/somewhereinnepal.htm
An eloquent piece above from Puskar Bhusal. That's not his real name by the way. He's usually rather accurate in his observations, but thought I'd pick up a factual oversight on Deuba's Western-trained credentials that Bhusal gives as one of the reasons to explain the PM's behavior these days. Since Deuba's "western training" has been repeated way too often to make Deuba look good in the past 12 years, let's dig in for some facts:
1. Contrary to claims, Sher Bahadur Deuba was never a "research fellow" at the London School of Economics (LSE).
2. Deuba did not "study" at the LSE. He was neither an undergraduate nor a post-graduate. Deuba seems to have registered as a student under a category called "research fee". This usually allows the research fee student to, i) use the LSE library, and ii) have a professor assigned for general guidance. He or she does not take classes.
3. To what extent Deuba made use of the world's largest social science library at the LSE is unknown, but he was lucky to have been assigned the occasional guidance of a well-known professor in international relations - Fred Halliday - an Arab scholar of renown.
4. Deuba is said to have done some homework on parliamentary democracies, but since he published nothing at the LSE - not a short paper or a dissertation - one doesn't know how "western trained" he was at the end of his stint at LSE from where he does not have a degree.
5. Under the urging of Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, the Acting President of the then "pratibandhit" Nepali Congress Party in 1987, the Germany-based Socialist International (once led by Willy Brandt, with historically close ties to the BP Koirala led Nepali Congress) aided by a covert processing at the British Council, is said to have sent off Deuba to London in 1988. Bhattarai is said to have wanted to stave off a possible defection of Deuba to the Panchayat by sending his protégé to London. On his part though, Deuba was adamant that he would never join the Panchayat, although through a strange twist of fate, some see him as a party-less PM in a multi-party system today.
6. When the democracy movement began in Nepal, Deuba was still in London where he is said to have lobbied for the movement. His stipend from the Socialist International had long been discontinued, and he was relying on borrowed money from Nepalis, irregular translation work for the BBC Nepali Service, and subsidized lodging at the Natraj restaurant, later home of the actress Karishma Manandhar.
Deuba is a simple, humble man whose struggles for democracy were genuine - 30 year long, some 10 of which were spent in prison for political beliefs. His democratic credentials until recently were pucca. But at a time when he himself is as confused as anybody else about what exactly he is doing to Nepal's young democracy, people like Puskar Bhusal should know that by Nepali standards Deuba may be a fine politician - and sadly, possibly, one of the better ones amongst a lousy lot - but it would be to everyone's benefit to not overdo his "western trained" credentials. Mr. Deuba was in London on an under-financed holiday, not for hard academic training. It would thus be unfair to propose that his western training has anything to do with what he is doing now. The Prime Minister could do with some under-expectations, I suppose.
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| again deuba |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 08:18 AM
Due to deuba related topic, I have extracted some parts of the postings from Paschimji previous stuffs.
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About Parliament dissolution
Now, is what Deuba did legal and constitutional?
Yes.
Can it be contested in the Court?
Yes, but on the basis of "najir", it's likely that Deuba's move will be ratified.
Do I like what Deuba did?
No. The parliament should have served its full term. My consistent call has been to form a small cabinet and focus on crushing terror with the parliamentary oversight in place . Although the National Assembly will continue to exist, it's only a poor substitute. Because they processed the discussions on emergency extension too late and without forethought, it ended up becoming an issue of "prestige". When non-substantive issues motivate the debate, the outcome is unpleasant. Deuba should have begun the entire process well before he left for his trips to the US and the UK. But following Deuba's successful trips to the US and the UK, the Koirala faction should also have tempered its stance. I personally think the emergency should not have been extended, but on the basis of existing anti-terror laws, the army operations should have been continued with added vigor.
But is Deuba serious about ridding the country of terror?
Yes, and this is what is important. With the international support, I hope he will be able to bring this mess to a "logical conclusion". The halla of talks didn't convincingly rest on the precondition that arms had to be surrendered. Let's make no mistake: there can be no peace in Nepal until Maoists are stripped of arms either through, i) killing while in combat, ii) capture when not in combat, or iii) voluntary surrender. In a democracy, the state should be the only entity with monopolized violence that is legitimate.
What next?
If Deuba's move is unchallenged, he should advance to restore peace, and create an environment for elections to be held by November. Possible? Yes. Elections can be held in phases with tight monitoring by the police/army. Everyone doubted seriously Girija's ability to hold national elections in 1998. He accomplished that task well.
What if Deuba plays foul?
If he seeks to postpone the polls under one pretext or another, he should and will be ousted (like Estrada in the Philippines), and an interim government, mandated to hold elections soonest, will replace him.
Are there indications that he will play foul - become the next Tulsi Giri?
No. This is a simple man who fought for democracy for 25 years before 1990, with around 10 of those years in prison, when his ability to speak was impaired by electrical torture. He defied high profile temptations from the Panchayat. This time he was cornered and punched hard by Girija. But he lacked foresight too, and ego and bitterness played a big part reflecting his own weakness, and why he can never be the greatest of leaders. But he can still be a good one. Now, he's exercising his democratic prerogative and so far playing by the rules. The army and the palace may have exercised backroom influence, but they have not crossed the line. And, Deuba, albeit weak, is in charge.
Will the Congress split?
Probably not. They've been through worse. But if they split, the UML is likely to form the next government which is fine. I have a perverse desire to live under a nakkali "laal-raaj".
Bottomline?
Deuba's move could have been avoided, but in the larger scheme of politics, it's not a big deal. Given the situation we are in regarding Maoist terror, if he exercises this democratic prerogative well, it may pay off in the long run. But do I wish he had done things differently? Yes. But now that he has done what he has done will I support him? Conditionally yes. The condition is that he will do what he says he will do: i) seeks to bring the Maoist terror to a logical conclusion - a clean operation to break their back conclusively followed by talks to offer them a safe-landing, and ii) starts preparing for the November elections right away or after the court dispute is settled which is certain to be filed. EC should expand its drive of instituting photo IDs in more constituencies to tame proxy voting.
Final words?
Democracy is here to stay. On my part, I'll be harboring no illusion about our system being derailed by Deuba or anyone else extending his stay in power to 2-3 years like Musharraf with the tacit backing of the army and the palace. He is a pretty sincere man with NO courage to play foul. You need guts to be nasty.
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| 79290184 |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 08:21 AM
http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=5014&show=all
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| 79290184 |
Posted
on 08-Jul-02 02:45 PM
http://www.kantipuronline.com/Budget/main.htm
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 02:54 AM
Sajha barges into Nepali Times once again:
http://www.nepalnews.com.np/ntimes/issue102/letters.htm#5
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 03:14 AM
From the Nepali Times, Latest Issue.
DEUBA AT LSE
Puskar Bhusal’s eloquent piece in his Somehwere In Nepal column contains a factual oversight. Bhusal notes Sher Bahadur Deuba’s Western-trained credentials as one of the reasons to explain the prime minister’s behaviour these days. Let’s clear this myth once and for all. Sher Bahadur Deuba was never a “research fellow” at the London School of Economics (LSE). He didn’t “study” at the LSE, neither as an undergraduate nor a postgraduate. He didn’t get a degree there. Deuba seems to have registered as a student under a category called “research fee”, allowing him to use the LSE library, and have a professor assigned for general guidance, but not take classes.
To what extent Deuba made use of the world’s largest social science library at the LSE is unknown, but he was lucky to have been assigned the occasional guidance of Fred Halliday, an Arab scholar of renown. Deuba is said to have done some homework on parliamentary democracies, but since he published nothing at the LSE, one doesn’t know how “western trained” he was at the end of his stint at LSE.
Under the urging of Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, the acting president of the then-banned Nepali Congress Party, Socialist International (once led by Willy Brandt, with historically close ties to BP Koirala) and aided by covert processing at the British Council, Deuba is said to have been sent off to London in 1988. Bhattarai is said to have wanted to stave off a possible defection of Deuba to the Panchayat by sending his protégé into exile. Deuba, for his part, denied he ever wanted to defect.
When the democracy movement began in Nepal, Deuba was still in London where he is said to have lobbied for the movement. His stipend from the Socialist International had long been discontinued, and he was relying on borrowed money from Nepalis, irregular translation work for the BBC Nepali Service, and subsidised lodging at the Natraj Restaurant, later home of the actress Karishma Manandhar.
Deuba is a simple, humble man whose 30-year struggle for democracy (10 of which were spent in detention) were genuine. His democratic credentials until recently were pucca. But at a time when he himself is as confused as anybody else about what exactly he is doing to Nepal’s young democracy, people like Puskar Bhusal should know that by Nepali standards Deuba may be a fine politician. And, sadly, possibly one of the better ones amongst a lousy lot. But it would be to everyone’s benefit not to overdo his “western trained” credentials. Deuba was in London on an under-financed holiday, not for any hard academic training.
Name provided, by email
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| Honesty |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 05:38 AM
Here is some more about Deuba:
* When Deuba lived in Maitidevi, he always carried a day old Times of India with him. However, no one ever saw him actually reading that newspaper. He never mentioned anything about what he had read in the Times of India either in hours of conversation that I used to have with him.
* While in England, perhaps Deuba associated only with Indians, Pakistanis and Nepalese living there. Upon his return, he told me in serious tone that it is not necessary to know English to live in England.
* I once asked him which book he has read in full. He replied in the negative.
Interesting fellow, this Deuba. You are free to add your own Deuba lore.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 08:34 AM
On Kaangressis, TOI, and Angrezi.
Like Paan, that neat Nehru-le-layeko-jasto-khairo-sleeveless-jacket, and uparkhutti lagayera Saptahik Bimarsha padhdai chiya pasal ma gaff garne (of the kind - sunnu bho? hijo party office ma Girija babu le ta danak dinu bhayechha ni), the Times of India was a routine accsessory to be seen among "pucca" second generation Kaangressis before 2046. They "carried" it because Krishna Prasad Bhattarai read it religiously and had told his English-ma-jhoor chelas to improve their English by reading TOI.
Thus what little angrezi second generation leaders speak today probably owe their "fluency" to their occasional glances at TOI before 2046. Sher Bahadur's activists actually partially contend that he is a better neta-ji than Ram Chandra or anyone of his rank because Sher "lived" in England, and can talk with "bidshesis" in angrezi. But the PM, on his part, is brutally honest about his language abilities. When criticized for an indifferent performance at the SAARC summit (by his St. Mary's grad wife among others who coached his speech many times), Deuba retorted, "malai nepali ta ramrari bolna aaundaina, ke angrezi raamro bolena bhanera gaali gareko?" True. Deuba prefers Dotel to Nepali to English.
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On a general note, however, I feel that while being versed in English (or other languages like Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Spanish, French, Arabic, and Russian) opens and widens a whole new window of access to mind-expanding material, it is not and should not be necessary to be "good" in English to be a neta-ji in Nepal. I really hope that our neta-jis make growing use of translators and actually speak in Nepali when they go abroad or meet bideshis. They should focus on communicating better, not trying to prove a point in really hopeless English that they have heard of the language someplace. If a perfectly fluent (in English) Vajpayee can address a UN General Assembly in Hindi and the Chinese leaders take with them pretty translator girls wherever they go, I don't know why our leaders choose to become clowns by choice whenever they get interviewed by the Beeb or CNN. Hire a dobhase, damn it, and keep your self-esteem intact.
Having said that, a reliable source present at the occasion confirmed that Deuba was "not bad at all" during his tete-a-tete with the equally stellar George Bush when they met a while back at the Oval.
Anyway, my point is: use language to communicate, not furti dekhao. Because no body buys your furti if you're not communicating, hoina? Hami sabai Nepali lai chetana bhaya.
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| NK |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 08:44 AM
Very true Paschim. It should have been a no-brainer for our neta that language is there for a reason, i.e. to *communicate.* Why do they always make a fool of themselves trying to talk in a language they are clearly uncomfortable with??? Can YOU, Pachim, send a letter immediately to our government and make it a priority to hire a interpreter when they go on bidesh yatra?
ps I just finished reading your Dilli Bhurtel and Gauthali saga. I did not know you had attached the photogrpah at the end. Appreciated it. :) You are one good-looking Chitwane/Gorkheli! :) Will spread the word around!
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| bhainsi |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 10:05 AM
Ok people, I understand that people (netas) who cannot speak English fluently should not embarass others and themselves by speaking clumsily. The point as you mention is to "communicate." However as we move forward it is not effective to suggest that Nepali leaders of tomorrow should not make a sincere effort to become well versed in English. I think countries like Russia, China, Germany and to a lesser extent India can get away with their leaders bringing along translators. In Nepal's case it would not work because more often that not we are always on the receiving end of the bargain. First we need to become a modern, self confident nation but because we have created a pattern of dependency trying to ask for $500 million in aid money with a Swedish donor and insisting on speaking your language to communicate that in a meeting is I have to say a very bad idea. Jai Nepal.
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| interpreter |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 10:09 AM
>>I really hope that our neta-jis make growing use of translators and actually speak in Nepali when they go abroad or meet bideshis. They should focus on communicating better, not trying to prove a point in really hopeless English that they have heard of the language someplace...
I am 100% agree with Paschimji, I don't know why our leaders don't think to use translaters when they realize that they can communicate well in foreign language. I have been embarrassed listening our leader's and high level official's talk with foreigners. I don't hope our leaders should be perfect in everything, but they at least can use nepali thru interpreter when it is difficult to express something for them and keep our self-esteem intact. I have seen that many USA educated(I mean joined univ.) chinese leaders always use interpreter in formal talk with foreigners. Our leader's language skill ramro chhaina bhane kin 'junga bahadur english' ko furti lagaundai kura garne? better to hire dobhase.
Another concern is for Hindi, Our leaders from girija to madhav nepal, surya bahadur to bijukchhe, they like to talk in mixed(?) Hindi when they meet indian leaders, journalist or pther indian peoples? At the same time our leaders always say that we are oppressed by india's bad policy. Why don't they speak in nepali or in english at least in some formal meetings.
>>, Paschim, send a letter immediately to our government and make it a priority to hire a interpreter when they go on bidesh yatra?
Good Suggestion, NK ji, I was also thinking for this. I have met many nepalis of same such opinions.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 10:54 PM
Bhainsi-ji, I hear you, but the point was, so how do we communicate "better" to negotiate and secure better terms for Nepal internationally (and maybe, yes, ask for that 500 million a year politely - this happens to be nepal's annual aid in flow). I'd choose to speak in my native language than make a fool of myself by speaking a language that I cannot communicate well in. If you can speak and communicate well in that other language, nationalistic symbolism aside, fine and good. The advice applies more to the current crop of netas - and I think people like Deuba's time can be better used elsewhere than in trying to brush up English at the age of 58. I agree with you, knowing 2-4 languages well is always helpful. I hope that the next generation of our leaders are well versed in at least one of the 5 UN languages (Russian, English, Mandarin, French, and Arabic). That skill will do them good, and also the country if they happen to go around speaking on our behalf, as neta-jis do.
Interpretor (of maladies?), glad you agree. Thanks.
And NK, I have actually made this point quite often informally. In February, I communicated this advice forcefully to the PM's senior advisors as well. Maybe a formal "open" letter that also gets published in the newspapers will nudge them to rethink this misplaced bias for bigreko angrezi...and, on that thing, thanks NK for noticing! So, has a long lost firebrand sister been found for me then? :)
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