| Username |
Post |
| Kwashiworker |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 04:28 PM
Hey I had to spend 5 hardearned bucks to buy the directory at the last GBNC function and now they're giving it away for free? I want my money back! or did you think you could just rip of the nice people who paid for it?
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 04:32 PM
Kwashiworker?!!
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 15-Jul-02 11:09 PM
I remember Hemendra Bohra, ever a wise soul and someone with business sense, actually suggesting -- a while back in this forum -- that the directories be given away
for free.
Hemendra's sensible reasoning, if I remember correctly, was: For the GBNC, in the
long run, the larger BENEFITS (with multiplier positive effects) of distributing the directories for free will outweigh the monetary costs.
I, as a sajha visitor, am happy to see some good sense finally prevailing in this
directory distribution.
On a larger, general note, note, working with Nepalis in Nepal and America one thing I have learnt is that rather than offering brilliant solutions, sometimes, you just have to
sit back and wait for a while for people to make their small, small mistakes so that
they themselves can eventually find their own ways back to what works and discard what doesn't.
Maybe that's what learning is all about.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| president |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 08:35 AM
Just a few points:
1. The directory was sold for $2 a piece during Baishakhi Saanjh. Not $5. $15 was the entrance fee for the event.
2. The plan on directories was always to make an attempt at selling as many as possible in the begining, and to eventually give them away for free. Those who bought the directories got to use them earlier than everyone else. We did not want to advertise that the directories could be available for free later as that would deter people from purchasing them. I am probably doing next year's council a dis-service by making this public, but perhaps they would come up with a different plan anyway.
Regards,
Bik.
GBNC.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 09:34 AM
Bik wrote:
The plan on directories was always to make an attempt at selling as many as possible in the begining, and to eventually give them away for free.
**********
Hmmm . . .
This is obviously a unique 'business model': Plan to sell as many directories as possible
in the beginning, only to eventually give them away for free.
Most 'sellers' do just the opposite: give away stuff for free or at discounts in the beginning, build relationships, and once people like the service/product they
are getting, then start charging them.
Then again, hey, I learn something new everyday on sajha dot com.
oohi
"trapped with too much work"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| president |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 10:02 AM
Ashu,
With all due respect, I think we (GBNC Exec Comm) can do WITHOUT your sarcastic comments. I am presenting our line of thought and you are free to comment/criticize it as you please, but please do not be sarcastic. Presenting your arguement without the sarcasm would be a far more effective way of getting your point across. If we have the resources and if we feel it is appropriate, we will respond to your criticism. If you are trying to draw me (personally) into a personal battle with you here, then I am not going to entertain such motives. If your motives were otherwise and I am mistaken, then my apolgies.
Bik
GBNC.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 09:36 PM
Bik wrote:
"If your motives were otherwise and I am mistaken, then my apolgies."
********
Yes, Bik, you ARE mistaken.
In this case, you have made publicly WRONG assumptions about me
and my motive, and have sensed sarcasm/criticism where none was/is
intended.
That is why, I accept your apologies, and trust that you would not
repeat this sort of error of judgment about people who care
about GBNC's progress by
a) thinking DIFFERENTLY from you and
b) without being confrontational or snide.
Then again, like I said, we all learn something new everyday on
sajha dot com.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| shagadelic |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 10:44 PM
Mr president,
I don't think there was any sense of sarcasm in Ashu's posting. I wonder how you got a feeling for it. Anyway, just my thought, and sorry to post something between you two.
Chill baibeahhhh...
|
| keti |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 10:57 PM
I also sensed some sarcasm in Ashu's comments. You have to be able to manipulate the tone of writing into words.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 11:10 PM
Hi all,
Web postings and emails are NOT perfectly amenable media to gauge one another's feelings. Misunderstandings, misinterpretations and so on are likely to happen, even when both parties mean well and respect one another.
Let us keep that in mind, when judging the FQ (feeling quotient) of our
postings!!
Still, in this open forum where I, as a visitor, value mutual trust, honesty and ideas-matter-more-than-contributors stance, I hereby announce to you all that if I ever employ sarcasm in my postings, the symbol I shall use to denote that sarcasm
would be: ^^
This way, you won't have to make false and wrong assumptions and also not
let your biases cloud your judgment. :-)
Hooncha?
oohi
"all for better and clearer communication in cyberspace"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| 4z |
Posted
on 16-Jul-02 11:15 PM
Ashu definitely put FU back in fun. (^^)
PS: hope i got the syntax correct
|
| NK |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 06:45 AM
Ashu with all due respect to me and my intelligence :) :) :) I am willing to bet my phutya dui koudee that you *were* being sarcastic!! And I had a good chuckle. *Now* you are coming back and telling us (me), insulting my intelligence, that you *were* not being sarcastic. I think you just forgot to put that itsty bitsy hat on that posting, that's all.
|
| sangey |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 08:10 AM
Communication is one of the most important aspect of my profession, from that experience, if I may, I would like to put forth my humble two cents.
Written communication, be it email or posting in a bulletin board such as this, is always an inferior choice to get your point across. Communication by definition is only 20% words and rest is comprised of intonation, body movement, eye contact, etc. Sometimes at work, I get email from a colleague that boils my blood. But I resist firing back a response because when I have a face-to-face or telephone conversation with that person, I usually find his/her intention to be completely different and benign.
So, let's not assume one way or the other what the author's motive/malevolence/benevolence/predetermination/conceptual volition/contemplation/raison detre/cui bono/etc. is based on his/her writing.
|
| sweety |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 08:34 AM
hey president,
The directory is free now.
Could you please post the contents of the directory in this site. Even those who do not have the access to ahrd copy of the directory will have chance to use.
Sweety.
|
| president |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 08:49 AM
Dear Sweety,
We have received this request from you and few others. There is one concern with making the directory so readily available. It allows for misuse of the information more easily, especially email addresses. In the past, this has been enough of a concern to not have the directory published on the website.
I will speak with the webmaster and the Council members to discuss this issue in our next meeting and let you know of our decision.
Thank you for your suggestion.
Regards,
Bik.
GBNC.
|
| dozo |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 08:51 AM
I do sense some sarcasm too. Those who were members of GBNC in the past know that financially GBNC is always breaking even. So it is not biggie to sell the thing in the beginnig. And hey.. whoever paid 2$ earlier got to use the directory for last 6-7months. So.. what's the problem?
|
| Jame Bonds |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 09:11 AM
The distribution of the directory at a cost in the beginning with a future plan to give them out for free is a 'unique' business model.
If someone voices their opinion that this is a unique model. Is that sarcasm? It could be, however the writer has made it clear that no sarcasm was intended. Maybe what he intended was an awe at such a unique business model. I think we should take Ashu's word on this. What do you say? After all, he's an honorable man. No sarcasm intended here. (I guess now everyone has to say whether or nor sarcasm was intended lest it be taken as such.)
|
| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 09:19 AM
So what if Ashu was sarcastic? that's just as much a fundamental right as free speech isn't it? I totally agree with Ashu, GBNCs business strategy is the weirdest I've heard by far. Anyone in their right mind would have pointed out what Ashu did. Most businesses initially dole out free samples to whet consumer appetite and THEN start charging for their products. It bugs me no end that Bik and/or other sajha personnel are so quick to respond to a valid sarcastic comment about their plan of action, whereas nothing is done to remove or censor racist, bigoted, sexist postings. Yeah, yeah, don't give me that crapola about freedom of speech and expression. That's a two way street, if those racist, bigoted, sexist postings can go by with nary a remark from any gbnc/sajha personnel, Ashu's should be able to too.
Ok, now that I've totally pissed off all gbnc/sajha ex.comm members, how can I get my hands on a gbnc directory?
|
| san |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 10:00 AM
Hello joie de vivre,
Seems like you have a little misunderstanding about where sajha.com stands. Sajha.com has never responded to any valid sarcastic comments about it's plan of action, and sajha.com ALWAYS makes it a point to remove/censor messages that bothers someone, and sajha.com is notified. It is not possible to hire a full time reader who reads through every posting to do something about racist, bigoted or sexist postings.
"BY THEIR VERY NATURE, DISCUSSION FORUMS MAY CARRY OFFENSIVE, HARMFUL, INACCURATE OR OTHERWISE INAPPROPRIATE MATERIAL, OR IN SOME CASES, POSTINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MISLABELED OR ARE OTHERWISE DECEPTIVE. WE EXPECT THAT YOU WILL USE CAUTION AND COMMON SENSE AND EXERCISE PROPER JUDGMENT WHEN POSTING TO OR VIEWING KURAKANI. "
Please remember that sajha.com is providing a service to GBNC for hosting their web and providing the application platform on a purely voluntary basis. Postings by GBNC members or other posters are solely their individual opinions and NOT of sajha.com.
The only plan of action sajha.com has is to provide a good cyber platform to bring together Nepali Communities, and have mind boggling, awesome and sometimes not so awesome discussions pertaining to and relevent to Nepal and the Nepalese.
Since your initial comment regarding 'sajha personnels' was a misunderstanding, there is no reason to be pissed, and I would be glad to post you a gbnc directory when i get a copy. Do send me your mailing address.
Hope this explains where sajha.com stands, and hope you don't take it in a negative way. Love you see more of your witty, interesting comments.
|
| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 10:07 AM
San dahling, how could I ever take anything you say in a negative way? I guess I hadn't realized that GBNC and sajha.com were two different entities. Though now that I think about it, it should've struck me before. Maybe I should've been born blonde?
|
| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 10:08 AM
and what's up with the chat room? I can't seem to log on. the chatroom seems to be the only interesting, happening thing on sajha.com lately...
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 11:48 AM
I have sort of noticed that too.
The GBNC crew is always too quick to respond to coments or sarcasms.
Whenever people put out suggestions their defense mechanisms automatically kicks into gear. But if people do not point things out to them they will never know. But the president seems to think otherwise.
Someone else had brought this subject up right after the BELATED new years party. I remember the whole crew was up in arms then ...and they are up in arms now...
Last year there was a lotta noise about how the new crew was going to improve everything but I have yet to see any new improvements this year except for the mere carrom contest, ski trip, and one momo paaty. That sure is hell of a lotta improvement I should say. They organized 3 more events than the previous crew... thats a whole lotta improvement ...
On the same note I am not saying that there was no sarcasm in Ashu' s posting. But its just Ashu...he cannot help it. He likes to get his hands dirty once in a while just like everyone else. But that's Ashu to you GBNC crew
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 10:33 PM
Koko wrote:
"On the same note I am not saying that there was no sarcasm in Ashu' s posting. But its just Ashu...he cannot help it. He likes to get his hands dirty once in a while just like everyone else. But that's Ashu to you GBNC crew."
O, Koko-ji, kay ho yesto analysis?
Far from getting my hands dirty, I vigorously wash them with Mayalu or Hamam or Liril
or Lux Saboon twice a day :-)
That said, on a serious note, though, first-hand experiences have taught me
that I have
a) absolutely NO interest in whitewashing the truth as I see it and
b) no intereest in being Mr. Popular or Mr. Likable or Mr. Friends-to-all.
If others want to be any of that, fine.
But I am perfectly comfortable making my own independent analyses, and going wherever the 'pursuit of truth' leads me -- even if it means that I have to make
some powerful enemies.
I, in my own name, assume FULL RISKS for my opinions.
Sure, if I am proven wrong, then, I'll have no problem accepting my mistakes and modifying/changing my thoughts in a good-natured way -- without making excuses, without blaming others, without assuming things about others and without cry-baby stories.
That's me.
In the short-run, I have found out that this this approach makes some people uncomfortable and even alienates some -- as has happened in the past -- who
mix emotions with personalities.
That's fine.
But the great trade-off, to me anyway, has been that, in the long-run, MORE and more people -- close friends and casual acquaintances -- come to see you as a no-nonsense kind of a friend on whom they can always rely for honest and caring feedbacks and comments and ideas so that mutual learning and personal/professoonal growth in a
FUN and ACTIVE way take place all the more.
You know, I want to be -- as I have been to many -- that kind of a friend to people.
And so, it was this open, yet confident and caring, "let's-make-things-better" attitude -- rather than any desire to get my hands dirty" or any desire to hurl sarcasm -- that led me to make my earlier comments here.
oohi
"you won't get any BS from me"
ashu
ktm,nepal
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| daisy |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 10:42 PM
why are people so confused? sarcasm or not, is freedom of speech. Jeez, you people are pretty obsessive stumbling upon individual words and stuff. Grow up. This is a message board, not a ratrace.
|
| shagadelic |
Posted
on 17-Jul-02 11:42 PM
Exactly, Look at ashu's sensible comment and look at mr president's ego which prompted him to defend himself at once. Come on, we can do without having so much ego-problems !
No offense to anyone, but when i mentioned about this new business model ( paid- trial- offer- for- eventually- free- stuff ) to my friends at work today, they ( incuding me ) cracked out and it made the day pass so quickly. Whenever I think of it , I can't help laughing out.
But hey, who knows, this model, in 10 years from now, might be a common practice in a business. May be, then, people will crack out to learn that we had cracked out at this day.
And yes, this is a public forum. Anyone is free to post any of his feedbacks, comments AND sarcasm.
|
| ma.kancho |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 12:15 AM
who is Bik? what is his full name.what does he do for a living.let me know,pz.I know ashu is harvard grad, who was into socio dev projects in Tikapur and rest of Dang.
|
| uks |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 08:58 AM
I can fully understand the rationale behind GBNC's free distribution of direction. It makes PURE economic sense. You just need to understand how new books come to the market. Do you really think the "hard cover" alone costs more than 15/20 dollars. People who are keen on reading the book early on do not mind paying that extra sum. Similarly, people who greatly value directory, I do not think mind paying $2. When the GBNC council, I believe, felt that no more or very little copies will be sold, they might have decided to give it more free. You might have wanted them to charge about 50 cents, but then........
Just wanted to say that this is not a weird model they are following. I find it rather strange that people like Ashu who majored in Ecomomics from a reputed institution fail to understand the rational behind this move. Or are you all crying for that 50 cents?
Constructive criticism appreciated.
|
| Nhuchche |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 10:01 AM
I think this is a valid economic model.
Comanies charge more at the begining and reduce the price later. There is no uniqueness about this. As a consumer I have experienced this many times.
Bought the Xbox when it came out 300 bucks now 200 bucks
Bought the Digital Cam when it came out 600 bucks now 400 bucks
Bought the GBNC directory for 2 bucks now 0 bucks
If companies reduce prices by hundreds of dollars as time goes by, I don't blame GBNC for reducing it's price by 2 mere bucks (let's not go into percentages).
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 10:18 AM
Mr. Sharma,
Your argument is clever, but flawed.
Since, like you, I too love economics and enjoy learning from others, allow me to post this.
Since I do NOT take criticisms personally, feel free to tear my arguments apart.
OK, let's think through this carefully.
For the sake of explaining my reasoning to many non-economist sajha friends too, let
me use simple and clear English.
Economist friends, please excuse this necessary oversimplication.
OK, then:
In the market for mature products (i.e. for products that have been around for some time), consumers have this something called "prior knowledge" about product cycles.
What that means is, for example, you may choose NOT to pay 9 bucks to go see "Spiderman" in Harvard Square ko theater now because you KNOW from your experience that if you wait for a few months more, you can rent the tape from Blockbuster for about 4 bucks or so.
In other words, there's this trade-off, the value of which you KNOW well.
And so, knowing how the product cycle plays out in the case of the Spiderman movie, you may well choose to wait for a few months because you KNOW that the tape will arrive in a few month's time.
Now, consider: What if you did NOT know that? What if Spiderman ko producers announce that the movie will NEVER come out in a cheaper tape format?
What then?
Well, if you really want to see the movie, you then have no choice but to pay that 9 bucks and and go see the movie, right?
Here, your PRIOR KNOWLEDGE about the "product cycle" informs you how you
want to frame your decisions regarding whether
a) you want to see the movie in the theater now, or
b) you would rather wait for the video to come out later.
Whatever you decide, your decisions will be based on what you KNOW about the product cycle.
Same logic applies to the market for hard-cover and soft-cover books too.
If a publisher -- as in the routine case of publishers of medical and science text books in America -- decides that no paperbacks of those books will be issued, then students are STUCK with buying expensive hardcover books. Happens all the time, right?
Students reluctantly buy those hard-cover math, science and medical books because they KNOW that no soft-covers editions of those books will ever be published.
This is how McGraw Hill, for one, makes a lot of money in the textbook market. McGraw Hill is very clever in that it also CHANGES the editions of those books fairly frequently
so that the students will NOT benefit from buying second-hand hard-cover textbooks for their courses.
*****************
Now, let's consider GBNC, which is a PUBLIC institution -- hence has to be all the more transparent in its decision-making process.
A fair question to ask is: How many people -- besides a few chosen committee members -- had PRIOR KNOWLEDGE that the directories were eventually going to be given away for free?
A reasonable guess: Not many
(And, aside: what does this tell you about transparency in GBNC's decision-making process? Nothing positive.)
After all, think about it: If everyone KNEW that the directories were eventually going to be given away for free, how many people would have chosen to BUY the directories in the first place?
A reasonable guess: Hardly anyone.
And that's because, in part, with or without the directory, people already keep a list of their friends' phone-numbers in their dairies anyway . . . and don't need GBNC's directory per se.
**************
Sure, the money involved here is very, very small, but, since you brought up rationality, the fundamental question is this: How can you talk about behaving rationally vis-a-vis a public insitution when that PUBLIC institution apparently hides key information which would have helped people make rational decisions re: the purchase of the directories?
GBNC, my dear friend, does NOT and should NOT operate like McGraw Hill book
publishers.
As Bik himself admitted: Because of the commitee's pay-now-and-get-it-free-later IRRATIONAL decision, he is doing a DISSERVICE to next year's committee which
would now have no choice but to give away next year's edition for free.
Think: If the next year's committte want to sell the new-edition ko directories next year, who would believe them? Based on what people know now, rational folks would just assume that they will wait for a few months more and get the directories for free anyway.
See the repercussions of IRRATIONAL decisions?
****************
If I were on GBNC, I would have followed Hemendra's advice: Send out the directories for free, win people's goodwil and trust, and then selectively ask for donations from the big earners in the community and through their donations
a) cover the expenses
b) and thereby heavily SUBSIDIZE the directories for the rest of the community menmbers.
As things stand, with Dassain around the corner and the new elections coming up, it looks as though the GBNC is -- trying to sound noble by sneakily trying to find a quick way to DUMP excess inventory -- knowing that they will never be able to sell those
damn directories anyway and might as well give them away for free now.
You call that a rational move?
Come on!!
Nepalis in Boston and elsewhere are not that stupid and can see though
half-assed cleverness.
PS: These are my frank and honest thoughts only.
Bik, UKS and others, please do NOT take these comments personally and negatively.
Expressed in an interest to provoke your thoughts ONLY.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
First, GBNC is a PUBLIC institution.
That means, all its decision-making process needs to be TRANSPARENT and KNOWN
to the community at large.
My question: Given this, how many people in Boston KNEW beforehard, for the sake of transparency, that the directories were going to be FREELY distributed anyway?
|
| president |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 11:13 AM
I was in the process of writing a rather elaborate response to some of the issues brought up here but I can see that this discussion might go on and on and we probably will not reach any conclusion. So, instead of getting sucked in it, I will give our rationale and people can come to their own conclusions.
The “business model” analysis......... I’m not sure if those are even the right choice of words for this case. For, not everything in GBNC is about business. In fact, there is very little “business” like things about GBNC. It is a voluntary organization in existence for nothing but the betterment of the community. What is “business” like about GBNC is that it collects enough funds for the day to day operation of the organization. With that in mind, I don’t see anything wrong with the path we chose:
1. Collect funds from businesses and private advertisers and sponsors with an attempt to cover as much of the cost of publication as possible.
2. Sell the directory at minimum cost to the community early on. Buyers get to use the directory before anyone else in return.
3. Eventually make the directory available for free and make it available to as many community members as possible as a good will gesture.
Was this the best possible strategy? Perhaps not, but I don’t think it was a bad one either.
One thing I have learnt over the years is rather than discussing something to death, it is always better to go with something that works well. It may not be the best, but it works. (In this case, whether the directories are distributed for free right from the start or later, the end result is the same: people get directories! Some get it earlier than others and they pay a small amount for it. Others wait and get it later for free.) There are some people who just love discussing and would discuss and debate anything to death. Given reality and the limitations one faces in any project, if there is a model that works well,… FLY WITH IT!
This will be my last posting on this thread, as I do not want to, cannot afford to get sucked into it any deeper. I have 1974AD/Deep Shrestha’s Concert to organize for heaven’s sake :)
Regards,
Bik.
GBNC.
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 11:28 AM
But the prior knowlege to consumers in this instancewas that we were used to getting it for free in the past. Usually couple of more people used to pay for publishing and distributing it. But as the organization grew bigger....cost higher. There is no steady flow of income in the organization.... So I totally understand the exec's trying to get some financial gain by this.....the reason being the Executive comittee before the current left a lotta debt I am told. So the current President had to make somechanges to make ends meet. I am sure given the same circumstances I probably would have done the same.
I know Prsident is just trying...
|
| uks |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 11:29 AM
Ashu, let me make clear that just because the strategy makes economic sense does not mean that I support the move. Having said that let's proceed for the sake of discussion.
You do acknowledge that there might have been excess inventory. Let us also give them the benefit of the doubt: It might not have been their intention to give directory for free. When confronted with this situation, what do you think is the smart move? Dump all these in a trash can. Is this acceptable for a PUBLIC institution like GBNC? The best alternative was to provide the directory free of charge.There are positive externlities to this move and that also need to be accounted. It would have been better had they cautioned us about all this. But then, how could they tell us about this when they themselves can not foresee everything. Undoubtedly, it will be easier for the next committee to alert us about this.
My point is: there might have been BETTER alternatives earlier before it was sold for $2, but after an action is taken, I believe what they did was the best they could do. They did employ sound economic judgemet when they decided to give the directory for free. The next executive committee should decide whether to charge or give for free as Hemendra, Ashu and others suggest. However I think you can't blame this committee for deciding to give for free. Sadly, I do not see better alternative after they saw huge inventory. Please enlighten me. I am desparately waiting to be enlightened!!
|
| uks |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 01:10 PM
sorry, I had not read the President's latest posting. It was not there when I posted. So, "Let us also give them the benefit of the doubt: It might not have been their intention to give directory for free" might be inconsistent. Still the general message is, I believe, consistent.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Jul-02 10:57 PM
Hi all,
No one is saying that the model is a bad one per se.
All I said earlier was: "It was a unique model."
That was all.
But the president mistook it as sarcasm (he has since apologized, though), and
Sharma took it as an attack on a perfectly rational behaviour on the part of the committee.
The point here is not that you are right or I am wrong, or I am right and you are wrong. The point here is to analyse this as a small academic problem.
Certainly, that IS my interest.
Now, feel free to ignore the rest of the posting.
My point for analysis is this:
Fact A: GBNC printed x number of copies, right?
Fact B: There is a cost associated with all that printing.
Assumption A: GBNC would like, at the very least, to recoup that cost.
Assumption B: GBNC tried selling the directories and all that, some money was collected, but it is still left with UNSOLD inventory.
Unknown A: Has the total cost (FACT B) been recouped?
Unless I have missed something, one has turned this UNKNOWN into a known.
This is a significant question (unknown A), and that's because in an earlier discussion with Hemendra on this issue in this forum, the president said that the whole point of selling the directories was to RECOUP the costs.
And that was fair enough, though past lessons -- which I think Hemendra was trying to share -- have taught us all otherwise.
Based on the above, then:
Conclusion A:
If the costs have ALREADY been recouped, THEN, yes, it makes sense to get rid of excess inventory now by giving them away for free.
Conclusion B:
If the costs have NOT been recouped (and it's a fair assumption to make that they
have not been recouped), then, the Committee needs to be more forthright to the community by saying: "Look, we thought we could sell them, but couldn't. Rather
than having the stacks of directories lying around, we thought we would give them
away for free."
Such a statement would have been HONEST and straightforward enough; and, after all, we all make mistakes anyway -- and that's how we learn anyway. Saying that you can't/couldn't sell directories in ways you thought you could is and was perfectly all
right.
But trying to apparently dress up your belated decision as a decided-in-advance marketing decision was what, in my opinion, made the committee look incompetent, irrational, opaque and shifty -- especially when that might NOT have been the case
at all.
And that was disappointing.
Lessons?
a) Running the GBNC is not doing rocket science. We all have made plenty of mistakes in the past. Let us have the humility to learn from our various PAST mistakes by talking to/listening to people who have served GBNC in the past.
b) It's best to be OPEN, forthright and honest to the community members EVEN when
we make mistakes or commit errors and judgment. What the community does NOT want are surprises.
c) I forgot what the third lesson was . . . my mind just went blank.
Have fun everyone!!
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| sweety |
Posted
on 19-Jul-02 08:40 AM
Though not an economist, I did not think that free distribution of the directory was a unique business model rather a simple one.
The vendors at the streets of Kathmandu or the fruit/vegetable sellers try to sell things at moderate or high prices according to demand, then reduce the price of vegetables or fruits bu the end of the day. Some consumers with the prior knowledge of getting the fruits and vegetables of the "madhesis" do not wait for the evening to get those in cheaper price. However, some may wait. Definitely those who did not wait have to pay the higher price but got the oppurtunity to use it earlier. GBNC executive decided to give it for free, the venders don't.
Most of the businesses here have the clearances of the inventories to make space for the new stocks. They sell the things for literally for the price of dirt and even give away in buy one and get one in style. consumers do have prior knowledge of slashing down of the prices at the end of the season or at some sale on some holiday, yet consumers consume when its hot. GBNC gave away in more free style, which I found OK but they could have cashed like Hemendra's thought to ask for some donation for the GBNC.
this is not any corporate scandal to make so much noise against the free distribution of GBNC directory nor it is a unique business model.
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| Jame Bonds |
Posted
on 19-Jul-02 09:31 AM
Ashu's Analysis
> The point here is to analyse this as a small academic problem.
This is not an academic problem. I think it would be bookwormish to analyze a real world GBNC event as a small academic problem. The Fact is that it's not even a problem to begin with. (A-I)
> Fact B: There is a cost associated with all that printing.
This Fact is an assumption, the press might have donated the books, in which case, even if there is a cost associated with the printing, it does not affect GBNC or anyone else, and using this as a factual statement to produce more assumptions later and arrive at conclusions would be taken as a fallacy of someone's analysis. (A-II)
> Assumption A: GBNC would like, at the very least, to recoup that cost.
> Assumption B: GBNC tried selling the directories and all that, some money was collected, but it is still left with UNSOLD inventory.
> Unknown A: Has the total cost (FACT B) been recouped?
> Unless I have missed something, one has turned this UNKNOWN into a known.
I find it amusing at best when the assumer assumes not only the assumed facts but other assumptions as well, in addition to unknown elements to arrive at
> Conclusion A:
> Conclusion B:
conclusions that are purely based on his assumptions and even learns his
> Lessons?
> a)
> b)
> c)
lessons; WHEN, the person responsible for the analyzed act has clearly stated why he did it the way it happened in the first place. (A-III)
What does this tell me about the analyzer?
now comes my
A) The analyzer is full of shiznitz.
B) I have two words for you: "Guess What"
> But trying to apparently dress up your belated decision as a decided-in-advance marketing decision was what, in my opinion, made the committee look incompetent, irrational, opaque and shifty -- especially when that might NOT have been the case
at all.
Again, assumption based on biased opinions of self righteousness. (A-IV)
Final Conclusion:
From evidence (A-I), (A-II), (A-III) and (A-IV), it is clear that it is pointless to go further on this subject.
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| bostonian |
Posted
on 19-Jul-02 05:10 PM
For someone living in Boston for a while, this is typical Ashu for you! Comment on every single thing GBNC does, shirk away responsibility when confronted and then go at length for pages and pages to justify his position!! What a farce!
If Ashu confessedly doesn't mean to be sarcastic despite being perceived as being so by many, then what I can say -- his writing probably sucks!! A good writer can convey exactly what he's means!
Now don't go about boasting how good a writer Ashu is!! Good writers publish, not just boast pages on and on!
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| nemesis |
Posted
on 19-Jul-02 08:21 PM
>Hmmm . . .
>
>This is obviously a unique 'business model': Plan to sell as many directories as possible
>in the beginning, only to eventually give them away for free.
>
Ashu, you have done it again. Sarcastic or not, you are also blazee (go and look into the french dictionary, if you don't know what that is). It is a perfectly normal business model, and applied often enough, that you first have to pay for something, and then get it for free later. The reason, as I might remind you as an economist, is the diminishing utility of certain assets over time. We note, e.g., that tomatos in the morning are sold for a $ a pound (or howmany rupees that might be in your country) and in the evening for 50 cents. More to the point, Business Week (if you have ever cared to read it) requires a subscription (for significantly more than $2) to their magazine to allow you current access to the web edition, however, after one week, everyone is allowed access for free. Does that ring a bell?
Of course, this does not withstand your correct assertion that some people first give something away for free, which they later may charge for. These often are, either beta versions of products (diminished utility), or the market share is so small that it would turn away consumers for that reason alone. But I am sure you learned that in business school yourself.
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| jack |
Posted
on 19-Jul-02 08:22 PM
I agree that Ashu makes a little long posting completely choking the readers ....
u never know what the conclusion is and where it is .....
Ashu u need to be to the point .... i never have enough time to read ur posting ....
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| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Jul-02 08:33 AM
Thanks all for your comments and remarks.
The more voices there are, the merrier it gets, doesn't it?
On a larger note, whether I am right or wrong, I am using my own name here, taking my own risks and putting my own ideas out there in this PUBLIC space to be
challenged
commented upon
criticized by you all and
still remain smiling and
remain quite unfazed/undisturbed
by it all.
My attitude is: If I do this kind of thing long enough, on a small, small scale now here
on sajha.com, it'll only help build the kind of deep emotional stamina to do some really interesting work in Nepal and among Nepalis later on in Nepal's own larger PUBLIC sphere -- where the fight for CHANGE for the better will be a lot more vicious and
a lot more draining but a LOT more important.
I stand by what I wrote in this thread and remain unconvinced by the kind of
after-the-fact rationalization that some seem fond of applying.
Have a good day, everyone.
BTW, a little bit of 'conflict' makes every organization healthier and makes sajha.com healthier and more interesting. Deal with it.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| HAHAHAHA |
Posted
on 21-Jul-02 02:17 PM
HAHAHAHAHA.....Ashu man you need to get a life and shed that style of writing.....you try (not) to be sarcastic but its not sarcastic enough and the lame excuses you come up with fact, know unknown bullshit!! my gawd.....and whatever you wrote in the ur last comment is true then believe me buddy you are getting a lot of goodwill (bad I should say).... if you are still smiling undisturbed and blah blah blah why bother retort with a reply? and chillax dude....ur voices aint reaching no nepali janta!
HAHAHAHAHA........
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| another bostonian |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 06:47 AM
Ashu,
We're sick and tired of your "holier than thou" attitude already.
That's not how you win friends and influence the larger public sphere as you dream about! Even dictators at least have some charisma although they try to shove things down our throat!!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 08:05 AM
Oh Bostonian and another Bostonian kazi-haru.
My aim IS to make anonymous folks out there -- people like yourself --
"sick and tired", and ill and pissed-off, yaar.
Tehi ho, yaar.
Chitta boo.jhyo?
You know, it's a lot of FUN living and working in Kathmandu, having a blast and
giving sleepless nights to the usual, predictably slimey folks in Boston by driving
them totally insane with their anonymously expressed table-banging rage :-)
But like I said, in this FREE forum, deal with it.
If you can't, then, either ignore my postings or shut the hell up.
It's as simple as that, and well within your emotional (hello? hello?)
control. :-)
Then again, hey, we all need entertainment, don't we?
oohi
smilingly yours
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| another bostonian |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 08:21 AM
Oh yeah yeah, so much for all your intellectualizing and having fun!!
Slimey yours! ;)
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| view finders |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 09:28 AM
ummmm.....
stop this tug of war. here are the tips for best buy....
1. BUY ONE GET ONE FREE.
2. 2 FOR $ 3.
3. $1 SINGLE CHECK REBATE.
4. 50% OFF ON ENTIRE STOCK.
HOPE THIS HELPS IN THE FUTURE.
CHEERS !!!!!
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| Koko |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 10:49 AM
My aim IS to make anonymous folks out there -- people like yourself --
"sick and tired", and ill and pissed-off, yaar.
WHY ? Why on earth would you want to do that ?
Man ye have issues.... get over it my harvard friend.
You know, it's a lot of FUN living and working in Kathmandu, having a blast and
giving sleepless nights to the usual, predictably slimey folks in Boston by driving
them totally insane with their anonymously expressed table-banging rage :-)
Who are you talking about ? Are you calling all Boston Folks slimey ? Well I am from Boston and I don't think I have ever banged any tables Ashu. I never thought that Harvard educated poeple would have such farce veiw of any community. How could you stoop so low ?
It's as simple as that, and well within your emotional (hello? hello?)
control. :-)
Then again, hey, we all need entertainment, don't we?
Ye also have a really twisted way of entertaing yourself at the expense of others. Do to other as you would want them to do to you Ashu...
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| Jame Bonds |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 12:29 PM
Ashu, if your aim is to make anonymous folks out there 'sick and tired', and ill and pissed off, then you are implying that you have problems with anonymous postings.
I wonder how many people here post with their real names? Not many, maybe 1%. Being registered does not mean you are not anonymous. As far as anonymity goes, Paschim, KOKO, MadMax, etc are all anonymous since they are not using their real names.
This means you have problems with 99% of the posters in this site! Maybe you need to get a clue and stop posting in internet forums, where 99% or posters are anonymous. The beauty of the internet forum is that it gives people anonymity to post their issues and thoughts. Just because you are ignorant of this or because you choose to be ignorant of this fact, does not mean that the rest of the 99% need to start using their real names.
It seems like you're fighting a lost cause. Your above statement how biased, intolerant, foolhardy you are.
Or, are you paranoid? Does each anonymous poster hold the potential of being one of your enemies that you have gathered throughout your egoistic existence? Is that why you are on a mission against all the anonymous posters - who could potentially be your enemy?
I suggest you see a shrink.
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| HAHAHAHAHA |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 01:35 PM
impressive to see that Ashu you can write without covering more than two pages... and it was rather funny too... :D....good one... although who the hell said this isn't a free forum? All we are doing is also giving our free opinions about you! YOU DEAL WITH THAT..... "we all need entertainment, dont we?" :-D
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| heheee |
Posted
on 22-Jul-02 02:57 PM
Ashu, who is himself the master of anonymity (masked behind names such as Bhupendra Rawat, Kanak Bania, Ram Babu KC) grinding an axe against other anonymous posters on the Internet!!
Did someone say farce?? heehee
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