| Username |
Post |
| Hom Raj |
Posted
on 03-Apr-01 11:34 PM
Sorry to post this as a separate thread when it’s really a response. But it’s darned long. Probably it does tell you I love to write or at least babble sometimes. Anyway anyone who's tired of this subject can skip it this way. I promise it's my last word on this subject unless there is a really good reason :)
First, to Rekha-jee: You wrote:
“Hom Raj, had you been at this affair like I was, you would not have even deducted that this was a SCAM!
… And the person who did get the first prize, did NOT have any of the qualities that many other contestants had, not only Adwiti.”
That’s one of the reasons that I had posted the url. I assumed people would click on the winner too. At first I thought, about this winner, that she looked like a drunkard to me. She’s still there. Anyone can go and visit her and make any judgment call you wish to make. I thought people would click on this “first prize winner” and realize what I already knew—and what I thought the winner made obvious—which is that poetry.com is not serious. Again, I did think at the time that it was newsworthy as news, if not as literature, since it seemed to be a big phenomenon. Even though I knew something, I still thought that. Which shows what a good scam it is!!!
Btw, I think Adwiti’s poem was better than the first prize winner. Certainly her performance was infinitely more charming.
You asked what makes a poet. No one can answer that question. However, let me ask you this. Why do we come to university to get our degrees so we can be validated? Why can’t we gather a bunch of villagers and tell them we have gotten a PhD? After all, maybe we have really good ideas! Maybe all our friends love our ideas! Why do we have to go through all this rigorous work and sleep deprivation and getting our writing crushed and cut and deleted and criticized to earn that precious diploma?
Moreover, why don’t American universities recognize a bachelor’s degree from Nepal as a bachelor’s degree? There are 24 million people saying that is a bachelor’s degree. But you bring a Nepali BA to America and they say, “Hey buddy, you just did a couple semesters work. You’ve got a long time to go.” But we agree to this judgment; and when we study, we see the sense of it. So legitimation does matter to us. In poetry, validation means publishing in peer reviewed journals. It doesn’t mean you “are” or “are not” a poet, but it is important.
Biswo-jee: You mentioned to show this to Sangraula. What does Sangraula know about English poetry? Of course he is a good writer in Nepal, but a good Nepali writer cannot necessarily judge the subtlety of English writing. Even native English speakers cannot all write and understand poetry.
As I’ve seen it, here are some of the typical misconceptions among Nepalis about writing in English:
(a) writing in English, poetry does not have to be correct grammar.
Agreed. You can bend grammar. But you have to know you’ve done it on purpose. It should come out that it was done purposefully, not by not knowing. This is not necessarily relevant to Adwiti—I’m speaking in general here—but if it’s in English, who should judge? Someone who writes in Nepali? People like us who are second language speakers?
(b) Just having a jumble of ideas makes it a poem. No, it does not. Poems are not just a stew of ideas. This is relevant because I think we, as second language speakers, are often judging the IDEAS and not the POETIC EFFECT AND FLOW. The subtleties, environment, voice, etc.
When I write poems I show it to many people before even I call it a poem. By “many people” I mean native speakers, especially writers! Believe me I have whole notebooks full of what other Nepalis would probably think are finished poems, and which I sometimes think are more finished than they are, until I show them to someone who says, “Hey, this doesn’t even flow in English.” It’s really hard to be a writer in one’s own language, let alone in the language of other people.
I’m sorry if this offends or discourages anyone. Certainly it’s fun and challenging to try and write in English (although just speaking for myself here, thank God for grammar checks on computers.)
I’d love to see Adwiti’s work in Nepali.
Finally I want to say something encouraging. Perhaps this will put the quote about poetry.com discrediting a person in context. I know one poet and professor of English literature who, having one time participated when he was really an emerging writer in this poetry.com, he felt publicly embarrassed in the same way. He never references that work, except when he warns students. BUT TODAY HE IS A RESPECTED POET. Perhaps the same will be true some day of Adwiti. I wish her the best because Nepal needs more readers and writers!!!
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Apr-01 12:50 AM
"Biswo-jee: You mentioned to show this to Sangraula. What does
Sangraula know about English poetry?Of course he is a good writer
in Nepal, but a good Nepali writer cannot necessarily judge the
subtlety of English writing. Even native English speakers cannot
all write and understand poetry."
Dear Homraj ji:
My point was not regarding Sangraula, it is regarding Ashu. I
didn't say to show this to Sangraula. I said Ashu once posted
an information that he's presenting a show with Khagendra
Sangraula. My posting and the information posted about the
show are below as verbatim:
from my last posting:
" Ashu is presenting a show in Martin Chautari with Khagendra
Sangraula, he certainly has some literary contacts and acumen,
can't he make judgements about the poems published in 'Verses from
Himalayas'? "
from the posting in the past:in the thread "Talking shop in catmando"
" Date: 24 April 2001/ 11 Baishakh 2057
Martin Chautari Classic Literature Discussion Series (Month
5)Topic: A critical look at Shankar Lamichhane's collection of
essays: "Abstract Chintan Pyaj" Led by Khagendra Sangraula and
Ashutosh Tiwari "
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Apr-01 01:29 AM
Biswo,
I appreciate your respect for Khangendra Sangraula, a Nepali
writer I admire for his compassion and honesty even when I disgaree with his political beliefs.
But having known Sangraula for some years now, I would say
that he would be the first person to admit that he is not an appropriate/competent person to judge the merits/demerits of Adiwiti Subba's poems, written in English.
You have hinted that Adwiti Subba has written "world-class"
poems. Your respect for her seems sincere and is
admirable.
It's just that some of us once-burnt-twice-shy, a little jaded non-poetic readers simply wish that claim by supporters like you to be validated by some "world-class" poetry journals before getting carried away, again.
Meantime, Adwiti is free to continue posting her poems here and elsewhere. And we are all, myself included, are free to
continue to ENJOY Adwiti's poems as they are.
Namita, for one, has continued to post some interesting/enjoyable poems here, without her supporters claiming those poems to be "world-class" ones.
oohi
ashu
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Apr-01 01:45 AM
Dear Ashu:
You got me wrong about that world class stuff. I didn't hint that
about Adwiti particularly.I sincerely admire her poetry, and I
agree with you that achievements should be proven by literary
journals. It was my point about everybody when I wrote my comments
about Elitism which is still there in the pertinent thread.
Contrary to what you or other a few people here want to stress
or insinuate, I haven't endorsed poetry.com, I wrote that I found
its acts 'shocking', but also don't want to ridicule a good writer
just because she was awarded in the competition associated with
the organization.I also want our friends to introspect themselves
when they quickly go to brand somebody else as something
disparaging,or when they err by rushing to judgement/announcement.
To tell you truth, I am an admirer of Namita's poems. She is the
only person I have asked to publish poems in this site by sending
a personal email.And I don't know Namita personally.While writing
my thesis, I have read her poems several times and tried to crack
the meaning of those simple and brief lines.
And finally, I don't agree with Khagendra's politics, but I agree
that he is one of the greatest writers of our time. This is my
most sincere opinion about him.One of the fellow posterers here,
whom I don't know personally, has got a mail from me some weeks
ago: a novel written by Khagendra Sangraula.A proof that I love to
talk about him and disseminate his writing.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Apr-01 02:46 AM
Biswo,
No ONE here is ridiculing/disparaging Adwiti
and her efforts.
If anything, I see people taking great care NOT to
blame Adwiti herself while trying to get their points
across. I certainly am trying my best to do so.
At the very least, it's fair to say that we are all
outraged that she was fooled by poetry.com in the first place.
Once we understand the extent of 'for-business' strategies of poetry-com's bashes (as detailed on those MANY Web links dating from 1998,1999 and 2000), then that's ENOUGH of a reason for the rest of us, GBNC Web site visitors, to continue NOT being fooled further by anyone's poetry.com achievements.
Let's get this point really clear.
What I wrote just above does NOT prove that Adwiti is a
good writer. Nor does it say that she's a bad writer. All it
says is that: She was a victim of a scam, though I would
have liked to hear it as such from herself, rather
than having to take her supporters' word.
And so, the logic of my retraction was that:
NONE of us -- who really care about literature --
should be in the business of promoting scams by publicly
writing articles that would, in all likelihood, talk about
those scams in positive, respectful tones.
After all, EVEN after those Web revealations, fans like Diwas Khati onward to San Pradhan and others, people have actually
said how much they have enjoyed reading Adwiti's poems. And that's great.
On another note, Hom Raj asked, without expecting to get answers, legitimate questions about the publishing house that has brought out Adwiti's first book of verses.
Since Adwiti's poetry.com achievments have now been
brushed aside to focus on the book, any CRITICAL reader
of poetry can ask: "Just who is her publisher?" Who are
her evaluators, and so on and on -- NOT in an effort to
discredit her, of course, but it's just that -- because
of this shocking poetry.com episode -- everything she and her supporters say about her poems is now unfortunately OPEN to question and is going to be taken with a large grain of
salt until, I am sorry, that sense of trust is restored.
oohi
ashu
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Apr-01 03:29 AM
Dear Ashu:
OK,boy.
These questions are not certainly for me, and it is for Adwiti
and her publishers.
But I certainly feel obliged to answer some of the questions
about her evaluators, because that was also a basis of my
introduction. Here is something that I knew when I wrote
the introduction for her:(All from the clippings I have)
1. Her evaluator for her publisher: Dr Robert Andelson, a retired
philosophy professor from Auburn(according to The Auburn
Plainsmann, Thursday March 15th.)
2. Sudipta Chanda profiled her in The Statesman, Friday 26 January
2001.
3.One of her recommenders is Henriett Faas from The Netherland.
According to the introduction about Faas, she is related to
University of Leiden, has published five volumes of poems in
Holland, and can be reached at henriettefaas@hotmail.com
4.Another paper clips that I have is from Spotlight(East
Alabama's Weekly), where the article is titled 'A Sample of
the East comes to Auburn' and profiles Adwiti. The profiler
is Annie Bond. I don't know her , but her email is
anniebond@journalist.com as given in the end of the article.
5. Patrick Cotty profiles her in the Auburn Plainsmann, there
is no more information about the writer, no contact address etc.
These were information available to me, and I am not including
the reports of Gangtok Times and others that didn't have the name
of the writers.
Again, it is not always easy to answer such questions. For
example, I have published half a dozens of stories in
Garima/Madhupark/Yuvamanch/Kantipur Koseli (all were published
at least three years ago), and if you ask me who my evalutors
were, I can't answer you.
Another thing: Granted hers is not a big publisher. But will
Knopf publish her poetry in a handmade Nepali paper with such
care?Will Penguine? The reason I liked the book was also because
of the service it was doing to our country/indigenous industry.
Auburn already imports garment,and artifacts from Nepal, and I
have seen people were impressed with the Nepalese paper on the
day of poetry recital.It is very easy to antagonize friends
and well wishers of Nepal by disparaging their effort, but man,
it takes a lot of efforts to improve the image of your national
product in a foreign country.
As a person who loves to live alone, I am not a friend of Adwiti
and don't confuse yourself about that.We met for only two times,
and that's all.She lives in beach(Gulf Shores), three hours drive
from here,and that's her permanent address.I have never been
to that place, though I have been to Moblie several times in
my way to New Orleans. I want to see things objectively, and
I hope you will also see things that way.
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