| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 29-Jul-02 04:34 AM
Lucia is a Dutch journalist.
This article appeared in a foreign newspaper.
I am posting this here to stimulate your -- fellow-Nepalis' and fellow Nepal lovers' -- thoughts.
Comments, criticisms and disagreements welcome.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
*****************
Truth obscured
By Lucia De Vries
Nepal's 'watchdog' journalists became toothless pets
on the night of November 26 last year, when the
government declared a State of Emergency.
With their constitutional rights suspended and a
hundred reporters arrested over the following three
months, the Nepalese media have had no alternative but
base their reports on news bulletins provided by
the Defence Ministry and the Royal Nepalese Army.
These bulletins, little more than psychosocial tools
of war for boosting the moral of security
forces, raise more questions than they answer.
On November 26 and 27 two allegedly Maoist newspapers
in Kathmandu were raided. Ten journalists and
supporting staff were arrested. A day
later the Minister of Information, Jayaprakash Prasad
Gupta asked the media 'not to publish or disseminate
interviews, articles, news or reading materials
or audio-visual or commentaries encouraging the path
taken by Maoist terrorists or promoting or intended to
support related activities like physical assault,
loots, abduction, arson, murder and violent,
disruptive and terrorist activities'.
A day later it became clear that Gupta's request was
an order: his Department of Information had formed two
news monitoring cells, both print and electronic, 'to
keep track of news related to the army and police
operation against Maoist terrorists and other related
news'.
On December 29, Defence Secretary Padma Kumar
Acharya announced that journalists who want to travel
to troubled areas require permission from the Defence
Ministry. That day, some forty journalists were
arrested in Rupandehi district. In March, Reporters
Sans Frontiers disclosed that more than one hundred
Nepalese journalists had been arrested since November
26.
These four developments (the Ministry's list of do's
and don't; the monitoring bodies; the restrictions of
travel to the Maoist heartlands without permission;
and the large numbers of journalists who have
been taken into custody) have resulted in a heavy
dependency on the authorities' news bulletins. They
can be heard every hour on Radio Nepal, and on private
FM stations.
They are repeated in the news columns
of newspapers, and on TV in the evening. They
invariably start with the sentence: "Today, in
security operations across the nation, ... [x number
of] terrorists have been killed." At first the
bulletins appeared on front pages, or as a headline,
particularly when security personnel were
killed.
Soon, however, these repetitive sum-ups were being
moved to page three, or condensed into one or two
lines.
How reliable are the bulletins on which the Nepalese
media (and in theirwake the international media*) base
their reporting? The general impression among
media-watchers is that they cannot be trusted, yet
neither can they be regarded as totally baseless.
Usually the numbers are right, as is the name of the
district, but there is so little background
information that such bulletins can barely be
interpreted, even if
they could be verified by other sources.
The authorities' concern for the morale of the army is
clear in guidelines released by the Ministry
of Information: no news can be given which 'will
demoralise the Royal Nepal Army, the Nepal Police, and
civil servants, spread negative feelings, and which
will damage their prestige'. The majority of those
killed are called 'terrorists' or are 'suspected of
being terrorists'; unless they cannot be Maoist
insurgents anyone's standards, as in the case of
children.
The location and manner of deaths are usually
obscured, stating the victim was killed during 'an
encounter'. The bulletins seldom mention
innocents being killed, and when they do it is said
people died 'in the crossfire'.
Devoid of any background information about the person
and the circumstances, these bulletins leave the
readers and listeners guessing what really happened.
Was the person killed a hardcore fighter; somebody
forced to carry out manual tasks by the insurgents; or
an innocent villager?
Was the deceased killed during an encounter, or
purposely shot after being detained? Did the victim
die of instant killing or as the result
of torture? How are so few innocent people killed? Why
are so few people detained and so many killed? In
short, the bulletins raise more
questions than they answer.
Often the bulletins make little sense. An example
being a report published by The Kathmandu Post on July
4: "One suspected terrorist is believed to have died
after he ran away from the security forces, the
Defence Ministry said today. The suspect, Dal Bhakta
Tamang, was arrested in Burtibang of Baglung. Tamang
was being taken to the Security Forces' base camp
when he ran away and jumped into the Badi River. As
his hands were tied, the forces believed that Tamang
could have drowned to death.
The security forces have launched a search for him."
A reader knowing nothing about Tamang, his village,
the strategies of the insurgents, or the general fears
of villagers in this Maoist heartland, may be easily
tricked into thinking that Dal Bhakta was a fool
when he jumped to his death. But did he have good
reason? Possibly, if one takes the following into
account.
Burtibang is as remote as it gets in the Nepalese
mid-hills. From the district headquarters, Baglung, it
is a tough three-day walk to the village. Baglung
district, in the Mid-West, borders Maoist
heartland: Rukum to the North, Rolpa to the west,
Myagdi to the east.
The heavily forested Royal Dorpatan Hunting Reserve to
the north acts as an arc between the districts: hard
to penetrate for soldiers with heavy
packs and an ideal escape route for insurgents moving
to bordering districts.
Perhaps that was why the Royal Nepalese Army set up a
base camp in nearby Bhimgithe, in December last year.
As the markets of Burtibang and other VDCs are no
longer functioning, Bhimgithe has become the main
bazaar of the area. People visiting the market must
present themselves first at the army camp. As the
records of all households of Burtibang's fourteen VDCs
are with the army, details about every individual can
be checked easily.
The army has introduced a ration system, to ensure
that no food goes to the insurgents. Per family, only
35 kg rice can be obtained weekly.
Burtibang is a constituency of the Rastrya Jana
Morchan, the National People's Front (NPF). This
Marxist-Leninist party has officially
denounced the Communist Party Nepal (Maoist) and
follows the government's line in calling these
insurgents 'terrorists'. The local NPF leaders
regularly warn the locals against supporting or
joining the insurgents, as a result of which they
receive threats, including a death threat in one
case.
The security forces, apparently unable to
differentiate between different shades of red,
have come down heavily on party workers. A few days
after the State of Emergency was called, a NPF party
worker, 42-year old Ram Bahadur Shahi was arrested
while carrying his father to a Gurkha pension payment
office in Syangje. After taking him to a makeshift
army camp and covering his face, soldiers shot Shahi
execution-style.
On February 28 Tulsi Aryal, Burtibang's VDC chairman,
was called to the Bhimgithe army camp to claim the
bodies of three persons from a nearby VDC. He
was shocked to find the lifeless, mangled bodies of
three young students, Tham Bahadur Bishwokarma,
Mitthum Mahat and Hik Mahat, the latter only
eighteen years old.
On March 11 VDC chairman Aryal received yet another
order from the local security forces, telling him to
take ten NPF party workers to the mobile camp. Five
days later Aryal was called to the camp to receive
seven of the ten detainees. They had been tortured,
and were compelled to report every to the barracks
every other day. At least they were alive. Roshan
Dhoj Malla, Dor Bahadur Chhantyal and Tika Chhantyal
had been taken away by helicopter, to an unknown
destination.
It took Aryal another week to find out what had
happened to them. Roshan, Dor Bahadur and Tika had
been taken to Argal, a village known to be pro-Maoist.
While local villagers were forced to watch, the
blindfolded party workers, their hands tied
at the back, were severely beaten. The men could be
heard weeping by onlookers,who were told to walk away.
Roshan Malla, the oldest of the three, is reported to
have shouted: "Don't harm the others just kill me."
Instantly, the three men were shot. They were buried
haphazardly, with some body parts sticking out of the
earth.
Ten days later Aryal and a group of other
party workers reached the scene and managed to rebury
their friends in a proper manner.
I interviewed a sad looking Aryal a few weeks later in
Baglung headquarters. He phrased his sentences with
care, and with attention to the daughter of Roshan
Malla, who had come to Baglung for her SLC
exam(which she failed). "The hardest part has been to
inform the families.
Dor Bahadur's wife was heavily pregnant when I came to
her house, and she fainted when I told her the news.
Ram Bahadur's 85-year old father kept on saying: 'I
should have died, not him." The loss of Roshan Malla
however has affected me most. He was a very cultured
and politically conscious man, always concerned about
others He left a wife and ten young children behind
with almost no resources." Aryal showed us a
photograph of his friend, a tall, poorly dressed,
serious looking man, standing in a boat on
Phewa Lake.
The VDC chairman took some time answering when asked
for his opinion about the security forces. "It is as
if the State machinery does not think as if it is only
able to carry out orders and is unable to make
distinctions. During my visits to the camp I got to
see the standard torture inflicted on detainees which
has shocked me greatly. The detainees are blindfolded
and beaten for hours with boots or pipes. They are
put in a pit and water is poured on them, so they fear
they will drown.
A gun is put against their forehead and prisoners are
asked to make a last wish. Witnessing these atrocities
has been mental torture for me. In the name of
fighting terrorists cruel things are being done to
innocent people."
The evening after the interview, Aryal received news
that his office had been burned down and his wife and
children threatened by Maoists. He left for Burtibang
the next day, ready to face the two forces that
slowly but surely erode his belief in justice and a
truly democratic society: the Maoists insurgents and
the security forces.
In a village where atrocities such as these have taken
place it is understandable that Dal Bhakta did not
trust the security forces when they led him away.
Other reports confirm that people fearing cruel
treatment by the security forces have taken desperate
actions.
A Kathmandu-based development worker was told by women
in Sindhupalchowk how a Maoist fighter who found
himself injured when a bomb accidentally
exploded, cut his own throat and died. According to
the women, the man did this because he expected to be
tortured by the army and would die anyway.
What if Dal Bhakta was a Maoist fighter who had been
instructed to commit suicide? Until now, Maoist
insurgents have not followed the path of groups
such as the LTTE to operate suicide squats. However,
during police actions 'Romeo' and 'Kilo Sierra ll'
incidents took place in which detained Maoist
fighters leapt into rivers. As they were usually
handcuffed to a cop, they took a 'class enemy' with
them.
The level of fear and cruelty among both parties,
army and insurgents, has reached such a level that it
would not be surprising if detainees from either side
felt encouraged to commit suicide rather than wait for
the inevitable torture and/or death carried
out by the enemy.
What if Dal Bhakta did not jump but was pushed? In
Melamchi, on April 17,a youngster called Shiva Lal
Ghale was pushed down a landslide by security forces.
When he managed to grab hold of a tree, a few soldiers
climbed down towards him and shot Shiva Lal at
gunpoint.
It is possible the soldiers acted out of anger. That
same morning a bomb had exploded further along the
road, damaging a vehicle of the Indrawatti Micro-Hydro
project, which was heavily protected by an army
battalion.
The soldiers captured two people, one of whom escaped,
the other a carpenter who said he had nothing to do
with the explosion. (The army was only ready to
believe him after the man had been beaten by them with
boots and PVC pipes for nine long hours). None of the
people in Shiva Lal's village had be able
to give given any useful information and by the time
soldiers met 22-year old Shiva Lal, washing clothes in
a stream, they were angry, frustrated and
ready to kill.
The following morning, at the boy's cremation on the
banks of the Melamchi river, most of the village was
present; expressing their anger with the security
forces. Shiva Lal was a popular boy, haasne khale, the
kind that laughs a lot.
He used to play volleyball in the river bed every
afternoon and was known to be a caring youngest son,
spending most of his time on the farm, helping his
parents with daily chores. His death was announced on
Radio Nepal in the evening: "In Melamchi, during an
encounter, an armed terrorist has been killed." Shiva
Lal's sister-in-law was shocked when she heard the
bulletin. "It is sad enough that our youngest brother
has been killed, but the fact that he is called a
'terrorist' makes it so much worse", she said.
Adding, "I will never be able to believe those
news bulletins anymore. Who knows on what grounds and
how these people have really been killed?"
From the little we know about Dal Bhakta we can safely
conclude that Tamang, like Shiva Lal Ghale, was not a
Maoist fighter. He was the owner of a small hotel that
was occasionally visited by insurgents who
requested or forced him to provide food and shelter.
Pari Thapa, a member of parliament who hails from a
nearby VDC, knew him and is convinced that Dal Bhakta
was pushed to his death. "The security forces are in
for the kill and rarely keep people in detention. They
wanted to get rid of Dal Bhakta,but it would look bad
if his body were found with a bullet. So they pushed
him." How can the Thapa be so sure of this? He is the
Burtibang representative of the National People's
Front and has seen worse.
How do district-based journalists feature in all this?
Do they not send reports and interviews which help to
interpret the government's news bulletins? Ram Saran
Acharya, the Gurkha based correspondent for
the Space Times Daily and Radio Nepal, explained his
position with a catchy one-liner: "Mero kalam banda
chha," "my pen is closed."
I interviewed the Baglung journalist Hira KC, managing
director of the New Daulaghiri Daily, after one of his
staff had gone to view the bodies of the three
NPF party workers in Argal. His colleague, Baglung
editor Badri Prasad Sharma, had been arrested in
December and was still in jail.
"We published a small write-up on the bodies, not
mentioning the security forces. We basically cannot
write about the army. If there is any news which might
anger the security forces we simply keep quiet. We
have to follow the rules laid out by the army and
local authorities, otherwise our lives are in
danger."
The Nepalese media, and civil society more generally,
has been compromised by what publisher/journalist
Kanak Mani Dixit calls an 'unwilling[ness] to
test the limit of the government's restriction on
press freedom.'
The least to blame are district journalists and
correspondents, who bear the brunt of the authorities'
harsh means of obscuring the ground reality in
rural Nepal.
The truth about Dal Bhakta remains hidden. Was he a
Maoist sympathizer who provided food and shelter
willingly? Was he an innocent villager,
detained for the wrong reasons? Did he jump or was he
pushed?
Every day the news brings more bulletins. The
number of people killed during the past seven months
has reached 3,500, 75 percent of them by security
forces in 'encounters' and 'crossfire'. In a country
where footage of dead bodies acts to de-sensitize the
viewers, in which killing (suspected) insurgents is
described as 'wiping out', 'eliminating' and 'taking
out', and in which truth is obscured by sterilised,
faceless reporting, the story behind
these cruel numbers might never be told.
By Lucia de Vries
(De Vries is a freelance journalist based in
Kathmandu.)
* The Dutch and Belgium papers I report for regularly
carry sterile statistics of those killed in Nepal,
taken from international press agencies. I have not
been able convince the editors that these
reports do not convey much and are not necessarily
true (such as in the case of the Lisne Lake
operations, when the army, in order to strengthen
Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba's quest for foreign
support, claimed 550 Maoist fighters were killed,
while in fact, according to the findings of
freelance journalist Shobha Gautam, only 20 bodies
were found).
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 29-Jul-02 11:40 PM
"Every day the news brings more bulletins. The
number of people killed during the past seven months
has reached 3,500, 75 percent of them by security
forces in 'encounters' and 'crossfire'. In a country
where footage of dead bodies acts to de-sensitize the
viewers, in which killing (suspected) insurgents is
described as 'wiping out', 'eliminating' and 'taking
out', and in which truth is obscured by sterilised,
faceless reporting, the story behind
these cruel numbers might never be told. "
*************
No comments from anyone?
I can understand why posters with identifiable names would hesitate to 'bite the bullet', so to speak, on this one.
But even from anonymous commentators -- why this silence?
Then again, that's what we all -- even those of us who are die-hard opposers of the Maoists -- live amidst: silence and fear in Nepal.
I rest my case.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 29-Jul-02 11:42 PM
"Every day the news brings more bulletins. The
number of people killed during the past seven months
has reached 3,500, 75 percent of them by security
forces in 'encounters' and 'crossfire'. In a country
where footage of dead bodies acts to de-sensitize the
viewers, in which killing (suspected) insurgents is
described as 'wiping out', 'eliminating' and 'taking
out', and in which truth is obscured by sterilised,
faceless reporting, the story behind
these cruel numbers might never be told. "
*************
No comments from anyone?
I can well understand why posters with identifiable names would hesitate to 'bite the bullet', so to speak, on this one.
But even from anonymous commentators -- why this silence?
Then again, that's what we all -- even those of us who are die-hard opposers of the Maoists -- live amidst: silence and fear in our beloved Nepal.
I rest my case.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| tired |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 12:11 AM
Ashu,
Everyday so many news of killing, now posters are tired of opposing such things.
Or listening news of everyday killing, our 'manbiaya sambedana' is dying slowly.
Or we are afraid of opposing such atrocities(by maoist and government) due to 'some' visible and invisible reasons.
Or may be we are fagat janata haun
Jaslai bhot halne adhikar chha,
Tara tinle chunne netako kam ma prasna uthauna paundaina
Jaslai janatako yuddha ladna uksainchha
Tara janatako lagi bhaner nirdosh janataharu marinda
Netako mahan 'chhakang' ko samarthan gardai
Tali pitnu parchha
Aafno bibekma banchna paindaina
|
| sanomanchhe |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 12:27 AM
>>Today, in security operations across the nation, ... [x number
of] terrorists have been killed."
I want to add in that the missing line
"Troops recovered weapons, socket bombs and explosives from the clash sites."
>>I can well understand why posters with identifiable names would hesitate to 'bite the bullet', so to speak, on this one.
But even from anonymous commentators -- why this silence?
Anonymity does not always mean to hide oneself. Its sometimes because there is nothing to expose about!
Why don't they (Lucia and others) spend some time to write about atrocities of Maoist and condemn their activities? I was stunned by reading article from Dr. Tulsi Bhattarai in today's issue of Kantipur.
Why and why does not the army become more sensible? They might not be aware of the existence of international tribunal and courts on war crimes, but they sure are going to to know these things if they donot show respect for human rights.
Only dialogue can lead to a peaceful solution. Unknowingly or knowingly an environment conducive to safe landing for Maoist has emerged due to dissolution of parliament and fresh election. They have also shown interest to sit in table, although this might be another of their strategic ploy. BUT, why not to capitalize it?
Journalists: Be aware of your rights and duties!
No one but journalists themselves can protect their rights!
|
| wonderer |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 12:45 AM
A very well written article I've read in a long time. I appreciate the effort Lucia has put in for this article and her own research. It had never occurred to me that we've been behind a 'purdah' since such rules started to take place. There forms an empty space in my heart with no feelings on it. It's like a book I am reading, where it starts out with a perfect world and as time goes by everything start to break apart.
Kudos to the courage of Lucia.
|
| Satya |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 07:12 AM
Thanks Ashuji for the posting. I tried to post my feeling several times yesterday all in vain. There was some error which forbade me to post. This might be the reason there was no response from other visitors. Fortunately, I had saved the contents in Word.
While I am 100% against the Maoist I strongly deplore shoot at sight policy of the government, which tarnish our image in the international platform. As one of the poorest countries in the world we Nepalese have difficulty to get visas to travel around the world even for genuine cases. I am still proud to be a Nepali though I encounter humiliating response when immigration officers of foreign countries examine my Nepali passport. What will be advantage of shoot at sight policy? Death of innocent people at the hand of security forces who are supposed to be protected by the government? Yes. It helps the Maoist to defend their terrorist activities. It helps the Maoist by providing willing recruits instead of forced recruits.
I never believed government’s casualty figures and its stories about the encounter with Maoist. If the government does not change its disgraceful policy the we Nepalese people will have no hope.
|
| klingonsofftheportbow |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 09:39 AM
lucia de vries? thanks, tiwari, i needed a belly laugh today! i could tell stories from the days when i knew her, but i've learned to let others be their own undoing.
|
| QreUS.. |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 03:00 PM
>No comments from anyone?
>I can well understand why posters with identifiable names would
>hesitate to 'bite the bullet', so to speak, on this one.
>But even from anonymous commentators -- why this silence?
>Then again, that's what we all -- even those of us who are die-hard
>opposers of the Maoists -- live amidst: silence and fear in our
>beloved Nepal.
>I rest my case.
>oohi
>ashu
>ktm,nepal
Time to drag all those big names. Time tested sajha-wisdom says, a little provocation goes a long way to make a thread hit. Permiso.
Here is what I think about the strange silence of sajha celebs on such a fiery subject as the systematic genocide being carried out by the Royal Army.
Biswo: Feels a commitment to support the RNA no matter what. Remember how mad he was with Kanak Mani Dixit who expressed his lack of faith on the RNA. Remember the infamous 'Down with the traitor' ? Biswo has often *criticized* the atrocities of the police, but he is not going to do the same about the army. There is something about it. But I do have have a clue.
Paschim: He is partly Biswo. He probably knows more than anybody else about the military atrocities. But finds his silence as a tradeoff of his hatred towards Maoist. Wait for a day when everything will be too unbearable for him.
NK: In her heart, she knows that the soil of Nepal is such that nothing but rebellion can grow on it. But she is miseducated about Maoists by Thomas Thuene. Read Suskera. Thomas does not know anything about Nepali Maoibadiz. All he knows is about the bad Kommunists of the East Germany. Yet he appears to be able to *educate* NK how terrible are Maobadiz in Nepal.
Hahooguru: He is pretending neutrality and still recovering from the bruises of the attacks from various avatars of his cyber enemy.
Nepe: Mr. On and Off. Old commie. Harbors strong abhorrence to all royal thingz. But lately he is finding his solace in hot lips and streached curve of a female anatomy. Is he walking towards insanity or is it an escapism ?
Arnico: Partly Nepe. But more pragmatic. Knows there is no point talking about thingz with the people pretending deafness.
Ashu: Acts like a bartender. Serves the drink. But does not drink it himself.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 09:43 PM
Alright, I succumbed to your provocation this time. But just some quick points:
1. As a private citizen, not a bearer of public office entrusted with any accountable authority, what I say on what topic, when, why, how, and to whom, is entirely a subject of my choice.
2. The only thing I am answerable to is my own conscience, and since my first day here, I have spoken my mind. In doing so, I have been critical of a whole range: the vanity and the feudal heavy-handedness of the Palace and the Army, venality of samsadbadi politicians, and the criminal disposition of the Maoists. I have also said good things about ALL of them, including the radical zeal with which the Maoists launched their progressive 'social' agenda. That was in the past - now, they are mere butchers. Search all my old threads since December 2001. And if you are kind to me, you may just be surprised at the consistency. Try.
3. I was one of the very few people, alongside Biswo, to talk here very openly very early on about the vices of the Army as an institution - how they are as incompetent as any other nepali institution, thus weak both in capacity and legitimacy. But the Maoists need to be completely disarmed, and tried as per the laws of the land, and it's only the Army and the Police - our brave boys who are fighting a necessary war on our behalf - who can facilitate this process today, so that the civilian leaders can ultimately settle a negotiated political solution.
4. But I remarked on Sen's disappearance, warning that if unjustified excesses are continued, Deuba should realize that he could be tried in The Hague one day. Same holds true for the Generals in the Jungi Adda. With a numbed press, I am not as informed as you think. But I have my sources, and I am increasingly becoming aware of the tactics of the Army like I am of the Maoists. Just two days ago, right here, I talked about the "mis-informed shootings of the Army".
5. Qreus-ji, you may continue to covertly sympathize with a lost cause, but just because I find it totally unnecessary to respond to a thread in a publicly displayed private website, it doesn't imply silence. And that false silence, or not, says nothing about where a person stands on the issue.
|
| Junkie |
Posted
on 30-Jul-02 09:57 PM
If only I had a chance to meet Lucia I'd question her:
what was the ratio of the coverage of Americans mistakenly bombing the Canadians and some Afghan marriage ceremony to the "successful(?)" drill of Americans in the war against terrorists (Osama).
A state has to use whatever means to protect its sovereingty. Words often speak louder than actions. Case in point: the American failure in Vietnam and Russians failure in Afghanistan.
If public psychology is wavered, there will be severe repurcussions. Not even 911 can help!!!!
|
| after dinner mint |
Posted
on 31-Jul-02 08:36 AM
please saar, just one more pubic psychology...
...it waver thin!
better get a bucket.
|
| Satya |
Posted
on 31-Jul-02 10:31 AM
Dear Junkiejee,
I understand you but still disagree with you. Khaire is the dada of the world and does whatever it likes to harm only (mainly) others. One khaire life = 1 billion Afgan lives. But in our case we are harming ourselves., not the khaire.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 01-Aug-02 01:56 AM
Querus wrote:
"Ashu: Acts like a bartender. Serves the drink. But does not drink it himself."
********
Fair enough, yaar.
Living and working in Nepal and using my own name in this forum, there are risks I
can take here, and there are risks I'd rather not take here.
Tetti ho,
Still,t o the extent I can, I have been pushing the envelope . . . to get people like yourself talking and discussing, and taking that as a small contribution, and learning to be happy with it.
Know what I mean?
Then again, hey, I do find comfort in your words, especially when one puts in the context of what Doug Coughlin says to Brian the bartender (aka Tom Cruise) in that movie "Cocktail:
"The bartender is the aristocrat of the working class." :-)
Would anyone care for 'sex on the beach'?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| Koko |
Posted
on 01-Aug-02 08:04 AM
QreUs,
I would like to know who Thomas thuene is ... Does he teach maobadi 101 or bad communists 101 class I can take somewhere ? I am completely blind about these issues. All I can get is what the news media provides which at times is not the whole truth, nothing but the truth... Not knowing which media sympathises which group makes it even harder to pass judgement on who is actually telling the truth.
This is just one article.. one point of veiw. THere might be some truth to it but is it really trustworthy ??? I don't know. I have heard of atrocities on both sides. Maoists targeting rich innocent folks, and the govt. forces harrasing innocent poor village folks. What are we to do ??? Victims on both sides are Nepali...
|
| QreUs ko helper |
Posted
on 11-Sep-02 07:19 PM
I am reviving this thread especially for ANEPALIKT who does not seem to be knowing the flip side of the civil war in Nepal.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 02:00 AM
>Biswo: Feels a commitment to support the RNA no matter what. Remember how mad
>he was with Kanak Mani Dixit who expressed his lack of faith on the RNA. Remember
>the infamous 'Down with the traitor' ? Biswo has often *criticized* the atrocities of the
>police, but he is not going to do the same about the army. There is something about it.
>But I do have have a clue.
I am surprised to be provoked this way:-)
Anyway, I request QreUS to remember those postings in which I advocated infusion
of civilian authority and intelligence in RNA.
Do I support RNA?
Yes, I do. This is an institution associated with my country, and this is an association
with glorious history where a lot of my friends now work. I had seen RNA boys
jumping at the turgid Kair Khola in 2041 to save people of Banshi who would otherwise
have been submerged. They protect jungle of Royal Chitwan National Park, without
whose hardwork wild animals would have been extinct by now. Good things need
to be appreciated.
Do I support RNA(officers) no matter what?
No. I support truth.I don't support misinformation. I am against all those RNA people
who fail to respect fundamental rights of unarmed innocent people in Nepal enshrined
and guaranteed in our constitution.If there is mass murder, let it be known. Let
criminals be tried and punished by the law of land.
Nation's institutions are our strength. Those people who love to ridicule all our
institutions are not going to make us any better when they rule us. They try
to instill in our youngster's minds that our nation is made up of weak structures
and that the future of coming generation lies in fleeing elsewhere.
Those who ridicule RNA don't present any alternative to offer resistance against
the rebellion. Talk? Wasn't it tried? The first attack, the first murder, all started
by a force whose electoral basis had shrunk to unvisibly low when it decided to
raise arm in despair.
Truth, untempered by people's ideological association, is what we need now.
Like a friend of mine told me somedays ago, "RNA claimed they killed 3,000 terrorists.
Looks like they killed commoners, otherwise how could they attack with such
ferocity again now?" Questions like this sound more true day by day. If
"everybody who were killed were Maoists" formula was used to enumerate the
killed rebels, then those people who are behind this calculation should also be
brought to justice.
Here is a force whose stated aim for now is to block national election and create
constitutional crisis in nation, here is a force whose tool for running nation is a
shibboleathe long ago considered outdated, whose shady leaders are in the lap
of those people who constantly tried to undermine our nationality: what kind of
fitting retaliation can anyone think of against them, btw?
>But I do have have a clue.
What clue do you have? Will you please share this with me?
|
| suna |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 08:33 AM
As a bystander/spectator to this thread (who does not have enough interest/information on the indepth whys of the maoist movement), I could not resist to ask a few questions:
1. Is Nepal a democracy?
2. Why are people surprised that there is uproar in Nepal? Education/awareness does make people want some kind of equality. The Dalits are a good example of this. Now should we have the government (most of whom are upper castes) give orders to shoot any dalit rallying/opposing in any way?
3. Has anyone in Sajha come forward to give us their POV on why he/she is a maoist sympathizer?
And a final thought, QreRS, you have claimed that NK's version has been marred by that of her husband Thomas. If that is true then tell me how is that any different from the version we have about these so-called maoists in Nepal?
And NO, I don't support massacres on either sides but I support getting rid of the disease called corruption. And NO, I don't believe I'm a maoist.:)
BUT, I do believe that every person has a right to feel what he/she feels and if that turns into a movement then doesn't that say something about the system?
Achano ko pir khukuri ley k jandacha.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 09:19 AM
-1. If the blow, in the name of getting words out, is delivered below the belt, I don't respond. I am utterly bewildered. How does one respond when when one is in shock?
0. When some statement is too far off the truth I just shake my head and let it pass.
1. When I am too angry at some statement, I don't respond. Saliva in my mouth starts pouring like a torrential rain. I sure don't want to embarrass myslef by drenching other party in my saliva. Unless of course he has a good mind to bring an umbrella.
2. I don't like to repeat my self over and over again as some people are fond of doing here in the board. It is just not that attractive :)
Finally Qureus it was very low of you to drag Thomas's name here. What is next? My Calra-Nina? I am interacted with you a couple of times here in the board. And they were done in a good faith and taste. Your comment in this particular thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 10:54 AM
QreUs ko helper (are you the cat then?): Mero name kina bina sitti ma? "am reviving this thread especially for ANEPALIKT who does not seem to be knowing the flip side of the civil war in Nepal." Dont assume nuthing kitty cat (remember to assume is the make an ass of u and me!)
|
| Nepe |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 11:09 AM
Me next, QreUS.
I have no comment to make. Just read my lips. If I start, a lot of people who have not followed all of my postings since Dec. 2001 will jump on me and say I am a half supporter of Maoists. Even our aadaraniya Gurudev had thought so about me until I made it clear that my commitment and faith in Democracy and Freedom are rock solid. And it is consistently so since I broke my affiliation with certain party politics almost two decades ago. Although I do not have anything to regret but only to cherish the evolution of my self through various natural stages, it has been still a strange feeling to see that some of my former colleagues are now central leaders of Maoists. Do I sympathize with them ? NO. Do I understand them ? I guess so. Do I fantasize they take a peaceful path, join the mainstream and use the existing democratic institutions to contribute to establish a democratic republic (not the socalled people's republic) possibly as a long, hard but constructive process, thus strengthening democracy in Nepal ? Yes, I do. Do I think it is likely ? No, not at this moment. But I know most history were unpredicted.
Now the royal Nepal army. My views are similar to that of Paschim. I just want to emphasize and add one thing. I know as a fact that the loyalty of the RNA is to the king but not to the democracy of Nepal. Consider this as an insider's view. This is not my mere hypothetical knowledge. Now I can not say more than this. Just read my lips, as I said at the beginning.
I am not for a cheap emotion (except for the curves of the other sex :-)). When a cold calculation is needed, I am ready to do it.
|
| suna |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 11:12 AM
Nepe
there seem to be two of us who think along similar lines.
Anyone next???
|
| QreUS ko helper ko helper |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 11:35 AM
your flippant observations are completely irrelevant. anepalikt has, unlike you, done actual good work for the betterment of average nepalis AND sajha.com--whereas you haven't even done JACK SQUAT! your malik's crack about rna's systematic genocide is bunk, as proven by the mere fact that the two of you are still, unfortunately, sqwaking.
|
| Nepe |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 12:15 PM
Suna,
I don't think you discovered me just now, or did you ?. In my case, I am constantly aware of your views since my ride in Sajha in December 2001. If nothing else, I was struck by the most beautiful, yes the most beutiful, nickname in Sajha, Sunakhari. My brief but memorable time with Parijat, my fascination with Darjiling and exotic names of flowers, were other ingredient of my fascination with your writings. And yes, we do think along similar lines in many issues.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 12-Sep-02 11:15 PM
The locals said that the rebels had been building their positions around the neighboring villages of the district headquarters two to three days ahead of their attacks. They also said that the rebels had been already assembling near Sandhikharka at about 5:00 p.m. Sunday.
KOL (a part) Arghakhachi ... how it happened:
It has come to light that the rebels had also blocked trails leading to northwest and east of the district headquarters, a postman said. A government employee said that eight rebels each had also kept four rocket launchers surrounding the hill areas aiming at the security bases. It is suspected that they had gathered here from Pyuthan, Kapilvastu, Gulmi, Dang and Syngja districts as they spoke regional dialects.
Before taking over the district headquarters, the rebels had built health camps at nine places. Police suspect that most of the medical personnel were Indian nationals. There were a large number of women and children whose duty was to attract attention of the security forces towards them so that the rebel fighters could easily take over them from other sides.
...
--
What were those Khume'S peoples doing in GuptaChar Department?
When Maoists were building power in nearing village since 3 or 4 days before?
Were they sleeping? It looks the APF, were themselves masterbating, if not
what were they doing? Why could not they remain alerted. .... Being it was
district headquarter where peoples every village usually (almost everyday
) come and visit offices, could have leaked the things..... But, why?
Khum Bahadur's man does not work? Shame on Khume. He is real Khumro
occupying Home Ministry.
HG
|
| QreUs.. |
Posted
on 13-Sep-02 07:02 PM
I am writing in this thread after one and a half months ! Phew ! Now the Sajha celebrities have broken their silence, spoken their minds (have they ?), They deserve thanks and due apologies etc.
Since I seem to be despised by most of them, I will be brief.
Paschim,
My admiration for your responsible and prompt response. You mentioned about *a lost cause*. Do you have *a found cause* ? Otherwise what moral right do you have to call it *a lost cause* ?
Ashu,
I am glad you found comfort in my word. But you are still a bartender.
Koko,
Find your answer at http://www.suskera.com/may2002/mao.html
Biswo,
Better late than never. Thanks. And I meant to say I do not have a clue.
Nepe and Suna,
No comment necessary.
NK,
I had no idea you are so fragile and insecure. If I caused you emotional torment, shame on me. But if you have courage to look at it objectively, you will find my intention was harmless. Thomas’ essay on Maoists in Suskera was very relevant here. Let readers decide for themselves, but I am sure they will agree with me on this that it does not even scratch on the surface of Maoist war. I am tired to prolong this. I leave you alone with your poetry. By the way, they are good. A lot of them are like Maoists themselves (good side indeed).
Anepalikt,
I think helper is right. You have yet to convince me otherwise.
Have a nice weekend !
|
| NK |
Posted
on 13-Sep-02 08:42 PM
Qreus, I thank you.[tonight, Ihave decide to respond only to the praise that is bestowed upon me. Even they are back-handed] I might respond to Hahooguru's posting on my last kabita. Or better yet, I should leave that to Jayahos. Hello Jayahos, you there? Do you know what the hell hahooguru is talking about? I got no clue.
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 08:52 AM
Qreus:
If you are not convinced (about what no?), thats good cause I am not trying to convince you. If people don't take what is said at face value thats their thing.
|
| GeoGods |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 09:54 AM
QreUs.. 's comments are annoying. He is trying to get more attention by annoying the stablished personalities. Its time to handle him with care. He should be replied in one nice sentence "Thank you, QreUs.." for anything and for everything he writes against or in favor of you. Do not write long replies. Your reply should be as short as possible, and its the only way we can kill such anti-social element. Neglect his all long postings, so that the he gets zero out of his long postings. Neglect him.
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 12:07 PM
So, What is wrong with Human rights?
And questioning "facts"?
Would such a questioning make me a Maoist, traitor or Desh drohi???? And according to whose definition? Remove the political agendas, vested interests and "patriotic righteous", "moral" issues... we are still discussing a poverty stricken people of a poverty stricken country. Based on the basic standards of "human decency" human rights demand looking beyond the facts and figures of the "good" and "evil" sides! but ofcourse, we can choose to say RNA is correct to go "nuke" the Maoists...because it is a war on "Terrorism"...as the Esteemed George Bush states self-righteously. Behold, the avenging sword of Gabriel! Hence, the RNA is empowered to commit good deeds along with the bad .... After all, all is fair in love and war...right? Esp. war on terrorism! If the boundaries of "good" and "evil", "right" and "wrong" were so clear, the globe would be redefined along with its lattitudes and longitude; equator (tropics of....this and that). One more addition of "the axis of evil"; not to mention a clear line of demarcation of "hell" zone and"heaven" zone!
According to Eric Fromm, (to paraphrase) The society is such that it structures and restructures itself to suit the time and environment of a particular people. "Revolution" itself is another example of such a restructuring...given that the discontent rises from mental, physical, human....... limitations. The image of "revolutions" change as time pass by. Alternating from being hailed "brave" to "oppressive", to "inhumanly violent", rebels have been labeled according to the theorist who comes along next... But in its wake, the "war" leaves a mental and psychological trauma...for those involved and those "NOT".
Ok...Too abstract is it?...Well,
Nepal, an "insignificant" tiny dot on the globe has exited at its own space and rhythm, within its own mystique, culture and traditions. Its antiquity many questioned but its existence few!! (but we all know that...hoina? drilled into our heads from 19 whenties). A rich pot-pourri of legends, hearsay, scriptural narrations and herioc ballads have been instrumental in creating an aura of a "shangrila" existing in the far off reaches of the Himalayas. But such an aura has been strongly woven by one common thread, of sovereignty; of a brave Himalayan kindgdom. The "harmony" of the " 4 jaat 36 barna" cannot be denied. How can it be??? Prithvi Narayan Shah, himself dictated it be so! The monarchy in all its glory and props (RNA) has existed as a symbol of "unification" can we even question that? How can one question the "Hinduness" of a "Hindu Kingdom". The question is redundant. PERIOD...(or is it?) Born of a legacy of romance, mystique, political aspirations, the monarchy (and its props) has held absolute sway over the people....rich and poor (....how can it not if Fear has been one of the unifying factors!!) The aristocrats basked in the deflected radiation of the crown while the "commoners" writhed in its malignant effects....(but who cares about the far off cries echoing around the magnificent, "peaceful" Himalayas!)
I remember idly reading the backs of my school books as the patriotic songs osmosized (does this word exist?) into my brains... I never questioned the system existing under the crown. Why would I, I was comfortably numb at the illusions of the "ma Nepali, mero Nepal" all "thriving" under the same system. So...when I heard about the "Maoist insurgencies"... I thought, come now....Maoism in Nepal, where the very institution of Monarchy has been deified....literally???????
I remember the spark of "revolution" during the Panchayat system which aimed at the system not the crown, despite the "jagjagi" of the "Pampha Devi". The form of monarchy only changed with the word "constitutional"...not much else! At the hue and cry, one would have thought "all" rebelling people had read Rousseau's "Social Contract" and the Guillotine would have inspired another French revolution....it was sharpened for the Panchyat system...not more, not less......
I also recall the developmental waves that swept through the country fattening pockets and feeding sharks. Radio Nepal boomed " Sano pariwar sukhi pariwar...Dhaal prayog garnuhos!, Educate the girl child, Brikcha Ropan,.........." But failing all efforts...books were printed on developmental limitations of the Nepalese mind, culture, traditions and terrain:
-Nepal is a difficult mountaineous country...communication and dissemination of information is almost impossible!!!
-Most Nepalese are illiterate, hence, ignorant.
-Nepalese are Not open to change and new ideas.
-They are steeped in religious superstitions and traditions.
-They do not recognize the benefits of 'modernization' and 'civilization'
-Hence, the Developmental Nepalese Cause for positive change is surely doomed....!!!!!!!!!!
But, here is the irony:
How the hell did someone manage to plant an alien seed (...to Nepalese religion, culture, traditions) of the most "alien" concept of Maoism....????????? Apply this question to the developmental woes of the contributing donors and our own government.
How the hell did the seed take root and spread slowly and steadily into the far "impossible" reaches of the "impossible" terrain?...I though dissemination of I information was non existent!!!
I thought Nepalese were not open to positive changes..?
When I read the "safe" facts printed or spewed in various media... I feel more ignorant than enlightened!
My one question is....WHAT was involved in the painful process of mental and psychological change of a whole psyche????
What are the "Majbooris" that make a conservative people want to die a "desh drohi" than live a "live" corpse"???????
So......Call me a Maoist if (on grounds of human rights) I seem to sympathize with those "criminals" whose only crime is to rebel against the very system that made them so!!!!!!!
So....do tell, what is wrong with Human rights???????????
"Truth" is obscured is it.....whose? "Truth" is only an opinion!!!!!
Please excuse this loooooong post.
Hahooguru...I seem to be inflicted by a milder case of "meandering" Abstract stream of parallel thought!!! ;)
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 12:14 PM
Also, please edit the typos... my woe (too lazy to use the 'Word", copy and paste!!)...... :(
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 12:40 PM
Sitara:
Bravo! So true.
But 4000 to kill 30? How is that ever justified? Also, remember how a mob tortured those three policemen in Kalimati ten years or more ago?
Human rights should be applied to all parties involved. Yes, first and foremost the government and its agents, but I refuse to make excuses for anyone anymore.
|
| Nepe |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 03:25 PM
Sitara,
Shocking ! I am dumbfounded !
Never had seen such an explicit, audacious, uninhibited, piercing and though-provoking view on this subject in Sajha before (sorry folks, if I am dishonoring you !).
You are my hero.
Deeply in admiration with you,
Nepe
|
| suna |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 07:50 PM
Our list is growing is it not Nepe?
:)
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Sep-02 10:44 PM
Nepe ji, and anepalikt,
Thank you! I can only shift gears and say...
It broke my "philosophical heart " reading Khalil Gibran:
"....For what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst?
Verily when good is hungry it seeks food even in the dark caves,
and when it thirsts it drinks even of dead waters!"
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 15-Sep-02 02:08 AM
Sitara-sis,
Please excuse this loooooong post.
Hahooguru...I seem to be inflicted by a milder case of "meandering" Abstract stream of parallel thought!!! ;)
--
I am lost. As I am getting old, I am getting too many information and my
brain is not able to sort out to reduce the amoung to call it finite information. ..
I am virtually "INTELLECTUAL DUMB". ... When I you are seriously talking,
I can not offer, except my Itellectual silence ...... Tauko mathi baat go (=gayo) .
Sorry Sister. I am just a dumb, within the intellectual Hanashi.
HG
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 15-Sep-02 06:47 AM
Guruji: (I dare not call you broda)
Your fan called upon your name to help her sort out her affliction (of having posted a loooooong post). If, guruji himself seems to be going through some internal transformation, I can only wait for the cocoon to break and the metamorphosis to be complete. :)
Dui haath jorera, respectfully waiting for the "Maun Dharan" to pass.
:)
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 15-Sep-02 11:03 AM
Sitara-sis compliments:
.. internal transformation, I can only wait for the cocoon to break and the metamorphosis to be complete. :)
...
I wonder whether it will be like Mahadev on Kailash for 1000s years Antardhyan
to get CyberGyan. Well, HG will try to look through the specks of SEMANTIsm.
In fact, guru got that "intellectual silence" from his fan, at time, when he
was desperately looking for way out of bottle neck. Now, all bottle necks are
seems to be cleared because of that simple formular "intellectual silence".
HG must try to see /visualize / feel and keep on watching how far $ dances
@ Sajha.com in HG intellectual absence. Well, when HG was discussing his
limited knowledge on relation, corelation. covariance, standard deviation...
stuffs with intelligent peoples (but beginners), and he asked them what
is r=? when y=a ? Well, they did study that when data is congested, then,
its called uncorrelated data. But, they could not explain, y=a ? Well, I
claimed, "hey, whether its y=a or x=b, its called x and y are indifferent to
each other. and therefore r= 0 in either case. ..........
Similarly, HG's intellectual silence will not change the number of postings, will not change
number of visitors, will not change learning process..... @ Sajha.com, therefore, its
indifferent i.e. independent of HG. ................ I am going to keep away
my negligible intellectual ability. .... So, do not waste your valuable time, by
waiting me to break the silence. .... Its worth nothing ....
Sitara: Dui haath jorera, respectfully waiting for the "Maun Dharan" to pass.
Well, as I wrote before about a gentlemen offering his neighbour a chewing gum,
to keep the env. peaceful good for reading, and the chewing gum from you
via Sajha.com, "intellectual silence" is full of taste, joy, I am addicted to it and
chewing cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewing chewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwing ......
It never vanishes just the way chewing gum does not, unless you swallow or
spit it................ Please let me enjoy as long as my jaws don't crawl ...
or tired. ....
Truth obscured. Itellectual silence pays, because $ vibrates .... want exit.
Have fun.
HG
|
| Biruwa |
Posted
on 20-Sep-02 05:10 PM
And I am back in the game.
|
| Biruwa |
Posted
on 20-Sep-02 05:21 PM
Sitara,
Learn to listen to others!
Learn to read what others say first before replying!
|
| Biruwa |
Posted
on 20-Sep-02 05:24 PM
My above request to Sitara is in response to her childish behaviors in the other thread. Find the link to that other thread below:
http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=6982#42878
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 20-Sep-02 08:56 PM
Biruwas ji...
If that is the best you can do...."I must admit, I am impressed!" :)
Hey, if it has served your purpose!!!!
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Sep-02 10:24 PM
........... How do you feel about paying for our children to get only half an education? I mean, after all, how can they be getting a good education when they’re getting only half the story? ................... (copied from somewhere, somewhere=internet)
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Sep-02 10:25 PM
Are we talking about Transparency? ".....half story..........".
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 21-Sep-02 12:38 AM
Only the "enlightened" ones can quantify knowlege based on limited experience.....!!!!!!
The "ignorant" ones can only bow in humility at the vast expanse of the unknown!!!
Biruwa ji:
Sure, Childish is as Childish sees!!!!!! :)
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 21-Sep-02 08:45 PM
Khagendra Sangroula'S article:
http://www.kantipuronline.com/kantipur_html/kantipur_news4.htm#1
---
First can be neglected, as always. 2nd part talks truth and is satisfactory,
and written in understandable language to Nepali Peoples.
A new word was introduced:
LauhaChari = Helicopter.
Instead of LauhaChari = Iron Bird,
it could have been:
FirFire Chari (because firfire= is helical too) ...
HG
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 21-Sep-02 08:55 PM
Khagendra Sangroula'S article:
http://www.kantipuronline.com/kantipur_html/kantipur_news4.htm#1
---
First part can be neglected, as always. 2nd part talks truth and is satisfactory,
and written in understandable language to general Nepali Peoples who went
to public schools, well, not for those "ELITEs" who went to private "BOARDING" schools.
A new word was introduced (those "ELITEs" will complain the following name translation
into Nepali): Our SO CALLED ELITES who went to private "BOARDING" schools have
good command in english, but, don'T know what else they own. Its my observation
based on a ELITE school, the criteria they told me to admit a kid into grade I.
Well, Grade I, if I know correctly means a kid who is supposed to learn things
from 0, but, our ELITES went to school 4 years before reached to Grade I...
haaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahah........... Great Joke and suprise to my Japanese
friend........... Nursary Lower KG Middle KG Upper Kg then, Grade I....
These ELITEs who spend 4 years before Grade one will criticize Khagendra's
attempt to translatation of Helicopter to Nepali Version.... Because
Khagendra is disrespecting these ELITES who spend four years to get into Grade I.
Wowowowwwwwww, its Nepal. Enjoy the translation.
LauhaChari = Helicopter.
Instead of LauhaChari = Iron Bird,
it could have been:
FirFire Chari (because firfire= is helical too) ...
HG
|
