| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:36 AM
The Indian Sajha.com of sorts. I am glad I have been at Sajha. But the experience was incomplete. My father's side of the family is from Nepal, my mother's side is in India. And I discovered Sulekha.com yesterday. And I am glad. That site has more in terms of content, but what I like better at Sajha.com is how you can search for all postings by one person and take a look at it all on one page. http://www.sulekha.com Check it out. |
| ananta | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 10:35 AM
Wonderful Website!!! Our sajha.com can learn a lot from it. |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 01:48 PM
Thanks for posting the link. I remember sulekha a couple of years ago. It was gaiing some momentum in terms of visitors, but still had a kind of edge that homegrown websites have. It is interesting to observe how they have changed and how produced the whole thing is now... I think it also reflects well what has happened in India in the last decade or so. Globalization, the Indian boom during the 90s -from Bangalore to Silicon Valley, from Rushdie to Roy, from star tv to MTV India, from movies like Bandit Queen and to real beauty qeens. The economic and media boom brought a sort of legitamacy to India as a cultural and economic world player. Personally for me Sulekha as a website/a cyber community never had that much appeal. It is a product of a totally different country and culture from what I identify with. And additionally I have always had problems with a certain attitude that our larger Neighbour has abuot the little brothers in that subcontinent. Just read below, straight from the sulekha website! You'll hopefully see what I mean. "Thanks to their awesome imagination, creativity and resourcefulness, Sulekha has quickly transformed from a hobby e-zine into one the most popular web destinations for Indians worldwide and a bustling marketplace of thought, opinion, discussion and creative expression. And this exponential growth has been happening solely by word-of-mouth referrals. Sulekha has won numerous accolades; when The Times of India calls Sulekha "one of the finest Indian websites" or India Abroad calls it "extremely popular...a hit, " the credit belongs to Sulekha's conrtibutors. When we say 'Indian' we mean anybody who is of Indian subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) origin. Save this Indian spin, Sulekha has no other agenda. If you are tired of reading same old wire news reports, recycled professional opinion, mind-numbing Bollywood brain-candy, Sulekha is for you. If you are tired of being a passive consumer of superficial fluff, Sulekha is your home. Come be a part of this democratic playing field, pulsating with an amazing diversity of opinions and creative expression. Whether you are a contributor or just a visitor, you are Sulekha's most valuable asset. " Okay... no thank you! |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 02:12 PM
anepalikt: "...When we say 'Indian' we mean anybody who is of Indian subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) origin. ...." I can see how this can offend your sentiments. The term "Indian subcontinent" is a geographical term, just like the Indian Ocean. But India is not Nepal. I hear that to be your point. And I agree. Not to the same magnitude, but I also find the term "Nepali" constraining for me. It is not inclusive enough of the Madhesis and the Janajatis. For example, I have never had "Bhai Tika." I have been into Raksha Bandhan. Nepali is a term of citizenship. But not sufficiently culturally inclusive. Another plus for Sajha: it lets your web addresses emerge as links. At Sulekha, they stay on in black print, like so many ugly, misspelt word parts. Sajha's technology is admirable. The interface on the front page is better than Sulekha's. The use of blocks. Sajha's Kurakani is more interactive than Sulekha's Coffeehouse. You can post something, and it stays there forever. Unnoticed. Or maybe it is just the quality of what I put up there! :-) |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 02:52 PM
Paramendra: You are right. Nepali society is not very inclusive of the different ethnic groups and nationalities within Nepal. It is racist and sexist society. Culturally you might find India closer to home because of the fact that you happen to be from the Terai. But I know a lot of Indians from the Northeast who feel similarly about being a non-mainstream Indian in India too though. I am not minimizing what you are saying about ther term "Nepali" being inadequate for you. But I hope you will see the difference between being upset that mainstream Nepal is biased and discriminatory versus feeling you are not Nepali because the mainstream experince is not one that you identify with. I hope you will continue to point out the discrepancies and problem within Nepali culture and society... I think THAT is what makes you Nepali. Not whether you tied Rakhi or did bhai tika. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 03:08 PM
anepalikt: "...a lot of Indians from the Northeast who feel similarly about being a non-mainstream Indian in India too though..." Reminds of this teacher from my high school (in Kathmandu) who once came to Janakpur to conduct entrance exams for the school. There I am standing by him, and he looks out the window into the sultry summer streets, and says: "Yo ta Nepal jastai lagdaina!" He saw skinny, dark-skinned, dhoti-kurta-walas. Pedestrians, ricksaw-pullers. I don't think he was trying to be mean. Actually he felt he caught off-guard. He felt the unease right after the blurp. That's the point. For me, "Nepali" is a term of citizenship. I have that legal document, and that's it. The tie is primarily legal/political. Culturally I am a Maithil. South-East Nepal. And north Bihar. That still does not make me a "Laloo ka admi," I guess not. I totally relate to the Darjeelinges and the Assamese and the southern Bhutanese (the "madiseys" of Bhutan), the groups you are referring to. I am a proponent of a South Asian economic union. Something that makes economic sense. Will be the only true cure for Nepal's landlockedness. And will facilitate a greater reaching out among peoples suffering from unnatual political boundaries. ".... It is ....... sexist society. ..." Tell me more. Tell me the same thing in about 1,000 words! The legal stuff, the social stuff, the personal examples, comparisons on the issue between the west and Nepal. What change do you think necessary/possible? 
|
| anepalikt | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 03:56 PM
Paramendra: What does being a proponent of a South Asian economic union mean? Will it come at a cost? What is the cost? What does that do to National identities? I think for Nepal "National Identity" is very important... maybe as important as gaas, baas and kapaas. Or is it my years of panchayt kal ko civic education speaking? who knows?! Being landlocked is our reality! We have to negotiate it. It is not a sickness to need a cure for it. I wonder what you mean by "unnatual political boundaries". Boundaries are always unnatural. They are man made. But they are there.There is history behind it. Unless you are saying nations should be be homogenous... and boards drawn along cultural/ethnic lines? Which I don't think you are saying (or at least hoping you are not saying). Anyhow... I think suffice to say, as much as I am a South Asian, I am first Nepali. That is saying a lot. As a female, right?! deemed a second or thirdclass citizen due to my gender! But, still I am Nepali, first and foremost. The cure to our landlockedness I think is selfawarness and voices from the margins! The landlockedness in Nepal is largely a social and psychological reality rather than mere geographics. I think we are still in the early stages of our entry into the modern world. We are still largely feudal and patriarchal. But change is desirable not by emulating the west or joining India, but discovering for ourselves who and what we are and setting new ground rules. Kaso? Don't want to go on about sexism. It is a moot point really. Because what you noted about the condition of women in Nepal in your other thread is all true. We know what needs to be done legally and in terms of constitutionally, but if we are talking about anything beyond that. Well I say, look at this board! Look at how men and women interact with each other. We got a long way to go! |
| shagadelic | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 04:39 PM
Paramendra and anepalikt, excellent discussion ! keep it up. By pointing out the following, I am not discouraging anepalikt to present more ideas.Yes, ideas is what we need ! >>What does being a proponent of a South Asian economic union mean? ( Of course only )Paramendra can better answer this question. >>The landlockedness in Nepal is largely a social and psychological reality rather than mere geographics. Well thought and said ! >>I think for Nepal "National Identity" is very important... maybe as important as gaas, baas and kapaas. Here is where you (and all we Nepalese) seem to lose. Just like the landlockedness is a psychological reality, so is "National Identity".. >>Being landlocked is our reality! We have to negotiate it. It is not a sickness to need a cure for it. Trust me it is, and we definitley need a cure for it. You claim national identity to be as important as gaas, baas and kapaas and that we should negotiate with our landlockedness. Believe me, we just can't negotiate with our lanlockedness at least/as far as when it comes to gaas, baas and kapaas. I am surprised you are ready to sacrifice our gaas, baas and kapaas but not lose "National Identity".. Treasuring our national identity will not provide us gaas,baas and kapaas if ever in the future our land is *locked*. Yes, being landlocked is our reality and we have to understand that. I don't know what you meant when you said *we have to negotiate it*. >>Boundaries are always unnatural. They are man made. But they are there.There is history behind it. Unless you are saying nations should be be homogenous. Nations need not be homogeneous, but the supply of gaas, baas and kapaas to Nepalese ALL over Nepal does need to be homogeneous. >>Don't want to go on about sexism. It is a moot point really....We got a long way to go! That's why you NEED to go on about sexism. |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 07:41 PM
I knew someone was going to pick on the whole National Identity vs gaas, baas and kapaas thing! You said, I don't know what you meant when you said *we have to negotiate it*. What I mean when i say we have to negotiate our "landlockedness" means that we have to come to term with it. Not at the cost of losing the land (metaphorically and literally. India has always been expansionist. I have no illusions otherwise. Being soluble as a nation, having food to eat, having shelter should not mean at the cost of national identity. I don't think the nations in the Indian subcontinent are in the same political stage as say, countries in Europe where they are int eh process of adopting this Paz Europa identity. Even so, remember that EC has been a long time coming. I think Nepal can and should be able to feed its people, treat its citizens equally and fairly, and give all of them the same opportunities, all without having to kill each other in the process or bowing to India. Sexism! I just meant in this tread! But thanks for the reminder! |
| Junkie | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 07:50 PM
Paramendra dai, You claimed never to have had bhai tika. My question is "why haven't you"? If Bhai Tika is of significance to you (and it is to many of us nepali), why don't you take "tikas" from your sister, cousin sis, or make one. Sure, there are nepalis in US. And we don't need a reason to celebrate Thanx giving, July 4th do we. If you include yourself, there's no exclusion. Just my thot. |
| nepali_keto | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 08:55 PM
"...When we say 'Indian' we mean anybody who is of Indian subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) origin. ...." Whatever is written above is pretty much BS. Nepalis aren't taken as Indians. The word "Desi" that Indians use isn't applicable to us. We aren't seen as one of them. Generally speaking, Nepal is seen as a place where people of Indian origin and Tibetan origin meet. In other words, when an Indian(or Pakistani or a Bangladeshi) thinks of a Nepali, he thinks of an individual with Indian as well as oriental features . For instance, Manisha Koirala has sharp nose, but her eyes are almond-shaped, a typical oriental feature. In other words, a typical Nepali looks hispanic, whether he be Bahun, Chettri, Gurung, Magar, whatever (but of course Magars and Gurungs are more oriental featured than, say, Bahun, or Chettri). Only when you go to the periphery(South, near India, or North, near China) do you see people who look different from mainstream Nepalis. Madhesis, who are Indian featured, and not mixed looking are pretty much hated. Northern Nepalis (Sherpas, etc) are also pretty much hated. That's why we came up with words like "Bhote" to belittle them. Although I myself am of pahadi origin, I do not have your typical oriental +Indian features that Nepalis usually have. When I was in Nepal, I was confused for Marwari or Teraibasi. I pretty much felt I was discriminated against, everywhere I went. I distinctly remember a time when a group of kids threw stones at me coz they took me for an Indian. Always felt so different. But still, I know what my offsprings are gonna look like... I know I digressed a bit from what I was trying to say....but the fact still remains that we aren't seen as Indian. I am a South Asian, but in no way am I an Indian. Indian and desi=terms for folks from India, Sri Lanka, Pakistanis, and Bengalis, but not for mainstream Nepalis and Bhutanis. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:21 PM
anepalikt: "...a South Asian economic union ..." The European Union is a possible model, but it is not the best there can be. The idea has worked on a smaller scale. If the 50 states in the US were all separate countries, all 50 would be poorer as a result. I believe that to be the general economic wisdom. But because the 50 states work as one market broadly speaking, they are better off. I think that would apply to Nepal's situation. (1) A larger market, for products and services. A larger pool of financial capital to draw from for investments. (2) Nepal's land-lockedness is perhaps the biggest hindrance to its economic backwardness. Only a South Asian economic union can make that irrelevant. (3) All South Asian countries will have to take major initiatives to institutionalize good governance before an economic union can be thought of. That "homework" would be desirable in its own right. (4) Those Nepalis who come to the US, are they an erosion to the Nepali identity? I think not. Quite the opposite. Their newfound prosperity actually helps nourish that identity. Same logic. A south asian economic union leads to more prosperous Nepalese leads to a bunch of people who have more to contribute to the flourishing of their identity. "....by "unnatual political boundaries". ..." Spelling mistake. Sorry. Typo. I meant, unnatural .... "...as much as I am a South Asian, I am first Nepali..." One of my former bosses used to say, "I am a woman first, a South Asian second!" She was/is an Indian American. On my part, I feel a South Asian first and foremost. But then I also feel strongly Nepali. Over two decades of my earliest memories are rooted in Nepal, half of it in Kathmandu. That memory is precious to me. And that is why I am so vocal against the prejudice against the Terai folks. "...The cure to our landlockedness I think is selfawarness and voices from the margins! The landlockedness in Nepal is largely a social and psychological reality rather than mere geographics...." Now we are talking apples and oranges. Nepal's land-lockedness is not a matter of sentiment. Not identity. It is an economic handicap. I am talking economics. The Nepali market needs ready access to the Indian Ocean. "...not by emulating the west or joining India..." Ideas can be gotten from anywhere. Just because democracy was introduced in the US in 1776, and only in 1990 in Nepal does not mean it was a bad idea, the "emulation." Ideas anywhere are the property of humanity everywhere. And I don't believe it is one-way traffic. The west and east have much to learn from each other. But, I believe, we are also touching upon the larger topic of globalization. And the version we have seen in the past decade is inadequate. There is too much emphasis on larger markets for capital. None for human capital, either in terms of mobility, or in terms of investments in the same. And those arguments would apply to any possible South Asian economic union. I appreciate your participation greatly. Shukriya. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:29 PM
shagadelic: Welcome aboard! This thread is doing well. I am glad to be participating. "....we just can't negotiate with our lanlockedness at least/as far as when it comes to gaas, baas and kapaas..." The choice between economic growth and the national identity is a false one. I hope anepalikt is not suggesting poverty is Nepal's identity, and so we need to keep it going! I feel economic growth necessarily leads to an enhancement of the native cultures. A more prosperous nation will devote greater resources to its cultural activities. Maybe they will have Maithili movies in theaters down the line! Maithili bestsellers! "....>>Don't want to go on about sexism. It is a moot point really....We got a long way to go! That's why you NEED to go on about sexism. ..." Shagadelic, cute point! If anepalikt and the likes will not come forth on the topic of sexism, who will! Because the Nepalis are poor, the Nepalies ought to keep away from talking about economic growth! That logic is leaky. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:35 PM
anepalikt: "....Being soluble as a nation, having food to eat, having shelter should not mean at the cost of national identity. I don't think the nations in the Indian subcontinent are in the same political stage as say, countries in Europe where they are int eh process of adopting this Paz Europa identity. ...." Economic growth, to repeat, does not have to come at the cost of the national identity. Just like environmental well-being does not have to be the cost for economic growth. Europe. I don't believe Nepal has to wait 200 years to get where Europe is today, just becasue that's how long it took for them for their economic transformation. And I don't believe Nepal will be following the European route in the first place. I believe Nepal will largely skip the industrial phase, and get most of its massive growth from the service sector. The idea of an economic union is like democracy to me. It is good no matter where you are economically. Democracy is a great idea, and not just for those who are rich and literate. It is a good idea, period. But then your criticism that Europe has not been successful in its attempts is a historical fact. That can not be disputed. More the reason to look into it and see why not... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:39 PM
Junkie, Bhai Tika is a hills thing. In the Terai we have raksha bandhan. So I do not feel deprived that I have never had bhai tika. Simple cultural difference. It is like, I don't celebrate birthdays. To me it is a cultural difference. I don't feel inferior because I don't. And I have no plans to start celebrating them. It is just that I feel I grew up celebrating festivals, not birthdays, and I am fine keepig it that way. To me birthdays are a western thing. In my culture, the only birthday that is celebrated is the first one, and they do it for six days. And to me that is valid, not that birthdays are invalid for those who do celebrate them. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:42 PM
nepali_keto: Thanks. By describing the "mainstream Nepalis," you have articulated the widespread prejudice in Nepal against the Madhesis and the Janajatis. The "looks" don't define citizenship, except if the country/society is racist/ethnicist. |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:48 PM
No, I am not saying Poverty is our Identity! But I am also saying don't sell yourself to eat! You eat to live and not the other way around! At least thats what I aspire to. I wrote, "I think Nepal can and should be able to feed its people, treat its citizens equally and fairly, and give all of them the same opportunities, all without having to kill each other in the process or bowing to India." Not talking about sexism becaue Nepal is sexist. It's not a leap I would have made. But I did not say I aspire to be logical either. Logic and facts are over rated! Thanks for the stuff on SA economic union. It was too long for me to read now. Will tomorrow and might comment then. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 09:59 PM
Paramendra dai, Fair enuff, that you likened Rakshaya Bandaan to Bhai Tika .... similar in theme but different ceremony-wise. Don't know when Rakshya Bandaan is exactly, but I hope you are not saying that that outta be a national holiday. If that be the case, we need month long holidays to celebrate Dashain and Tihar (or Diwali for some) in US. Anyway, just cuz you celebrate one festival over another doesn't mean that you arein anyway "included" or "excluded". To reiterate, many nepali in Us celebrate 4th july, halloween, thanxgiving .... heck even Christmas, that in no way makes us any more America/Christian than it does in making us any less Nepali/Hindu. Birthdays: that's an international theme. For me it's mostly, for kids and family for one extra excuse to celebrate. Lord knows when I had my last b'day celebration with cakes. But still ..... a beer-fest is a welcome susbstitute. Exclusion/Inclusion: I am ignorant at best about political details. So I refrain from commenting on that.Just that I didn't see how your celebration of Rakhsya Bandaan fits in with your argument. Like I said, we can't have national holidays for Dashain and Eed and ramaddan(for muslims) in US. But one is free to practise it in their homes. That isn't excluding, that is promoting one's vision/culture in their own atmoshpere. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 10:14 PM
Can't get enuff of this ...... Anyway, there are tons (well a little exaggeration helps) of Jewish festivals that aren't celebrated by most Americans. Yet in no way they fret about being excluded despite the prevalent politically (I think religiously) incorrect jokes. And I do agree with you on emulating good ideas from others, as you mentioned in the SA forum posting above. Good ideas are hard to come by. The lest we can do is not to "exclude" it at the mere pretense that is is not nepali-ness. |
| khahare | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 11:09 PM
>>. Don't know when Rakshya Bandaan is exactly, but I hope you are not saying that that outta be a national holiday Junkie, Rakshya Bandaan is coming very near. This August 22 is this year's Rakshya Bandaan(Janai Purnima) Paramendraji, Have a nice Rakshya Bandaan(rakhi bandhne). |
| Junkie | Posted
on 18-Aug-02 11:30 PM
Khahare: thanx for the info. Paramendra Dai: Enjoy the rakshya badaan. Hope you get to see or atleast talk to your sister. It's the least they deserve. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 12:01 PM
anepalikt: "...don't sell yourself to eat..." Even the French worry about their cultural erosion from the Hollywood onslaught. So I can see why you are wary of the Indian influence on Nepal, if the barriers are brought down further. This is definitely a complex issue, an ongoing debate. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 12:03 PM
Junkie, Point taken. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 12:05 PM
Junkie: It is interesting you bring up the Jewish example. Anti-semitism still exists. It is just that the Jews are better organized than ever before to fight against it. But they still have some distance to cover. Being a Jew and being a WASP does not exactly have the same social repercussions, not to my knowledge. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 12:06 PM
khahare: "..Paramendraji, Have a nice Rakshya Bandaan(rakhi bandhne). ..." Thanks. I usually get it in mail. |
| bisun | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 04:50 PM
I don't know if what if what I am going to say is valid for this forum, but I just don't want visitors of the forum to have a one sided view about Maithili culture. Maithili itself has dversity within it. I am a 100% Maithili, and I dont' have Raksha Bandhan with my sister. I do, however, have it from our priest or by myself. We don't celebrate "bhai tika" in the hilly sense either. But we do celebrate "bharjutiya," it is just another term for "bhai tika." They fall on the same day. The brothers take some "chiyura," and other presents to the married sisters, and the sisters welcome the brothers with good and special food ("taruwa" and stuff). When the brothers are leaving the next day, they are given some "suparis" as presents. Now days however, we are having influence from the south as well as from the north. So there are some sisters and brothers who celbrate both "raksha bandhan" and "bharjutiya." At the same time "bharjutiya" is more and more becoming like hilly "bhai tika": My sister last time put a "tika" on me and worshipped me, and I touched her feet, though I didn't really offer her any "money" since I am generally opposed to money giving culture. I personally don't feel constraint by any culture and welcome all of them even at personal level, not failing to celbrate any if I someone is willing to do so with me. It seems most of my family members and villagers feel the same way. Parmendra dai, I miss being in your journalism club that you had started while I was very young. I have always looked up at you, and I really admire you what you have been doing by raising ethnic and other discrimination issues which no doubt exist. I try to read your postings when I can. All the best, and don't feel alone in this. We are here too. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 05:54 PM
Bisun: If this is not Bisundev Mahato! The Budhanilkantha-Brown graduate. Hi. Nice to "see" you. Thanks for your input. And all those details! I, on the other hand, send some dollar bills after my "rakhi" arrives by mail! "..Maithili itself has dversity within it. ..." True. That applies to most groups to various degrees. I hope we keep bumping into each other at Sajha. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 06:35 PM
lau lau Paramendra dai ..... what's a wasp got to do ..... got to do with it? Hope you aren't getting personal here : ) Anyway, minorities suffer, fact ...... change is permanent .... another fact .... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 06:54 PM
Junkie: I was not getting personal at all. I was strictly into politics. WASP = White Anglo Saxon Protestant (the majority cultural group in the US) Jews African Americans NSHCWM = Nepali Speaking High Caste Wealthy Males (in Nepal, a monopoly on power) Madhesi Janajati |
| Junkie | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 07:17 PM
Oh those god damned political jargons .... maybe my dad is right ..... "Tero future ramro chaina, mora" : -) Protestant ho rah majority ..... isn't it Catholic ..... |
| Junkie | Posted
on 19-Aug-02 08:01 PM
Bisun and Paramendra dai: logh bhi kya yaad rakhangaye, jaab milkay chat gayen-gaye do madesh ko daju bhai .... ma pani join garnu parla ..... As for the check that you gonna mail paramendra dai ...... guess who's gonna be the mailman that day ;) |
| bisun | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 09:23 AM
Junkie: couldn't get your hindi line. an explanation or translation would be helpful. thanks. |
| bisun | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 09:28 AM
Parmendra dai: yes, that's me, bisundev. Though I don't really write/post much, I do try to read what I can of your postings, but I do honestly get overwhelmed by the amount of info you pour. I really admire your persistence and energy; hope I had some of them. Anyway, nice to "see" you too. I hope you are doing well; keep me updated plz. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 12:06 PM
Junkie: Fact: the Protestants are the majority in the US, hence the big fuss about JFK being the first and the last Catholic to have made it to the White House. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 12:09 PM
Bisun: This is my attempt at translation. Junkie: logh bhi kya yaad rakhangaye, jaab milkay chat gayen- gaye do madesh ko daju bhai People will remember When the meeting was on chat Two brothers from the Terai Well, Junkie seems to be a poet at heart, a chatman in his chair, lost in space. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 12:12 PM
Well, Bisun, I hope you drop by once in a while, here and now, then and ever. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 08:48 PM
haha Paramendra .... finally a humrous side of you ..... lord knows how we all longed for it :) About my chat: Isn't it amazing what one can do when you go back to Nepal. Am on a quest ...... to experience the hippie life if not in actions at heart ..... and ofcourse online only ;) |
| Junkie | Posted
on 20-Aug-02 08:52 PM
Bisun: gayen-gaye = garen-gaye ..... (meaning to do) ..... as for the meaning, Paramendra dai made it so lucidly clear ...... haha and he went a step further at translation .... I couldn't do a better job myself. Can't get enuff of this chat ...... right or wrong! |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Aug-02 04:19 PM
Junkie: "...finally a humrous side of you ..... " Did not realize I had been trying your patience. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Aug-02 04:37 PM
apelikt: On the economic union topic: European Union Internet Resources http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/GSSI/eu.html Europa - The European Union On-Line http://europa.eu.int/index_en.htm Yahoo Full Coverage: European Union http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=European_Union Globalization and Its Discontents http://www.usnews.com/usnews/briefings/global0701.htm http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/world/issues/wto/ http://www.protest.net/ Why We Protest Robert Weissman, a member of Mobilization for Global Justice, writes: In fundamental ways, the IMF and the World Bank undermine democracy. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/world/A2054-2001Sep9.html "....First, we call on the IMF and World Bank to open all their meetings to the public and media......Second, the IMF and World Bank must cancel the debts owed them by impoverished countries.......Third, the IMF and World Bank must end policies that hinder people's access to food, clean water, shelter, health care, education and the right to organize -- the ideologically driven economic austerity or "structural adjustment" programs that include charges known as user fees for basic health care, indiscriminate privatization and prioritizing exports over production for local needs......Finally, the World Bank must end all support for socially and environmentally destructive projects, such as oil, mining and gas activities, and large dams....." I hope these links will help the participants of this thread keep on with the informed discussions. |
| surya | Posted
on 22-Aug-02 09:06 AM
Thanks Paramendra for the links! I'll save them for when I have time. I am still working on your first post on a South Asian Economic Union. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 22-Aug-02 11:11 AM
Surya: I look forward to what you might have to say, but, over the past few weeks, except for a few exceptions, I have noticed the lack of gravitas in many postings. As if the site is primarily for social purposes. TND carried more gravitas. Many substantial issues were discussed at length. I am against restricting postings. But I wish more people participated more fully. I guess we will just have to wait and see. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:16 AM
Talk of online communities. http://www.sebsonline.com --- This is my high school alumni site. Recognized names. Touch base. People from the same batch. Considering I was at the place for a decade, I guess it is inevitable I spend some time there. Besides the webmaster -Rajan Nepal- is a jolly good fella. He just revamped the site. And it looks wonderful. And the site often gets non-SEBS visitors. http://www.sajha.com --- I have been here less than a month, but it is already my favorite online community. The SEBS site is too small. Not enough visitors. Whereas Sajha is interactive enough. I hope it gets many more visitors down the line though, perhaps thousands every day. I marvel Sajha's technology. The Kurakani section is the best, obviously. http://www.sulekha.com --- I have yet to find an Indian Sajha. Sulekha claims to the number one Indian online community, but it just does not have that Sajha feel. You go there, and post something, and it is like throwing your trash out into outer space. It is lost. Gone. Almost no interaction. Their "coffeehouse" is inferior to Sajha's Kurakani. And part of it is about technology. Sajha's search feature is superior. You can get all postings by one person on one page. That search feature at Sajha makes a big difference. http://www.epinions.com --- I think this is the number one online community out there. It's reach is continental/global. But, to my chagrin, I have so far not been able to get any SEBSers to sign up there, or any Sajhaite for that matter. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:21 AM
And, yes, I need to mention Chaitime.com. The site is no more: the company went belly-up, part of the dot com meltdown, but I was with it. I spent summer 1999 in Philadelphia working for it. The goal was to become the premier South Asian online community. It went as far as raising 25 million dollars in its second round of funding. But it did not survive. It was coming pretty good though. I remained in touch with the CEO for about seven months before she launched it. It got Wall Street coverage and all that. Those dot com days! |
| paramendra | Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:27 AM
Talking about those dot com days, I was just wondering if there are Sajhaites who did jump on the bandwagon ......... Or are still clinging to it in some magical way... I am reading a book right now called dot.con ... But I feel I am still a believe, despite the meltdown. I think there will be a second wave. What do you think? http://www.geocities.com/bhagat266/a/internet120199.html Where is the Internet headed? by Paramendra Bhagat December 1, 1999 The Internet is headed literally everywhere as portrayed in the phrases the Web Lifestyle and the Web Workstyle. What has been happening in the field of Information Technology along with the promises for the near and the long term are fundamental as the Industrial Revolution, only much more profound, much more pervasive, much more rapid and much more instantaneously global. What has happened so far is but the tip of the iceberg. Much of what might happen in less than a decade is barely visible from where we stand. The emergent contours of cyberspace promise to redefine literally all aspects of human life in all corners of the planet. The new millennium promises to be a new one indeed. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 29-Aug-02 01:34 PM
I was hoping this would be the dot com thread, but it never caught on. So let me put down specific questions: (1) Do you think the whole thing was just a bubble that burst? (2) Will it come back in a second, stronger phase? Or is it over for good? (3) Do you know stories from the era, people you knew who participated? (4) What has been the importance of the Internet, you think? For you, personally. For the Global South. (5) Your comments on the digital divide. (6) Will the Windows-based computing be taken over by a browser-based computing down the line, you think? (7) Will ICs - Internet Computers - take over PCs - Personal Computers - down the line? (8) Any software expertise on your part? (9) If you were to design a computer, what would it look like? What features would it have? A screen as good as paper, for example? As in terms of resolution. (10) How much of the 1990s "prosperity" in the US was information technology based, you think? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 29-Aug-02 09:26 PM
AOL Time Warner: (1) Do you think the merger was a mistake? (2) Do you think Steve Case' "vision" of a "trilion dollar company" was outlandish to begin with? (3) Or do you think the rocket will take off after all should broadband arrive soon in a big way? (4) How long before broadband is mainstream in the US, you think? (5) Has the old guard taken over the AOL new guard at AOL Time Warner? (6) Bob Pittman left/got ousted. Is Steve Case next? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 30-Aug-02 02:55 PM
Am I trying too hard here! :-) Okay. What do you have to say about the digital divide in the Nepalese context? In the global context? What hopes do you see for future? How important is it to have wider internet access in Nepal? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 30-Aug-02 02:59 PM
If you would like to launch a dot com this could be a good starting point: Paramendra Bhagat's Small Business Page http://www.geocities.com/bhagat266/l/smallbiz.html All the best. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 31-Aug-02 12:34 PM
Finallyl some IT talk: http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=164&threadID=6767 |
| paramendra | Posted
on 31-Aug-02 12:42 PM
paramendra Posted on 08-31-02 12:30 PM Reply Economy: Super article. I think the importance of IT for a country like Nepal is much more than has been realized. (1) The model to copy the west for the economy is flawed. The model says move from being primarily an agricultural country to being primarily an industrial country. That is flawed. Lacks originality. Does not suit Nepal's land-lockedness. (2) Instead the focus ought to be, move from being primarily an agricultural country to being one where the service sector is supreme: (a) Expatriates, pump in capital/investments. (b) Smart, educated folks, chip in . Do the work. (c) The vast majority: reap the benefits of investments in human capital (3) Need to elaborate (c). If human capital is supreme, as it is in an IT-intensive culture/country/society/company/economy, then making lavish investments in education and health tops the need to build roads and the like as is the case with the traditional model for economic advancement. As in, can you push the literacy rate from 40 to 90 in two to four years. I am talking of efforts of that magnitude. P.S. Please post the web address along with an article. |
| Sujan | Posted
on 02-Sep-02 04:26 PM
>I was hoping this would be the dot com >thread, but it never caught on. So let me >put down specific questions: Unless you are waiting for a response from Sajha visitors, by no means, are these specific questions. They are too general that can be looked up in any business magazine for good inputs, in fact, in most medium of your choice. Since you have the luxury of time to research them I will be very brief in answering them ;o) >(1) Do you think the whole thing was just a >bubble that burst? What do you think? NASDAQ, the tech heavy index, is down 70% from its high. The rate of IPO's was about 125 every week in the last quarter of 1999 as opposed to only 4 or 5 so far this year. Those ought to be some good indications. >(2) Will it come back in a second, stronger >phase? Or is it over for good? For this you need to examine the growth of DOW Jones and the S&P index over the years. History repeats itself. Mining companies, oil drillers, savings and loan franchises, biotech’s, and the internet all had something in common. >(3) Do you know stories from the era, people >you knew who participated? Several. A few got out early and semi-retired, few are back to traditional jobs, and the unlucky few are still riding it out. These were the ones who said they completely understood how to evaluate internet companies (mostly using comparables), and bought into companies who never made a dime before the IPO, and were selling at 500 times annual sales. Yahoo! was once worth $81 B. And at the same time G.M. was valued at $31 B. I hope you are smart enough to figure out the ludicrous valuation and the examples like it. >(4) What has been the importance of the >Internet, you think? For you, personally. >For the Global South. Not a fair question. Internet, for me, as well as everyone, opens up the whole world right before my eyes. And everyone can use that openness to create something new within the boundaries or the limit of the internet. >(5) Your comments on the digital divide. This belongs in a new thread. >(6) Will the Windows-based computing be >taken over by a browser-based computing down >the line, you think? Not likely so. Perhaps you meant: will Windows face fierce competition in the future or will consumers lean toward open-source operating systems such as Linux? Windows is one of many operating systems. A browser is a navigating tool that sits on top of the operating system whether its Linux or Windows. >(7) Will ICs - Internet Computers - take >over PCs - Personal Computers - down the >line? There are no such things as Internet computers. You probably meant computers that can only be used for surfing the net. If that is so, then you are not taking into account the functions and capability of today's PC's, therefore they cannot be compared. If you meant to say will they be integrated together, then this has already been done. >(8) Any software expertise on your part? Java developer >(9) If you were to design a computer, what >would it look like? What features would it >have? A screen as good as paper, for example? > As in terms of resolution. As an undergraduate 3 years ago, I worked in a team who were trying to come up with a design for a 3D monitor. Although possible, putting it out on the shelf didn't make any economic sense. Consumers were not willing to pay $6000 for one monitor. The project died when I graduated. >(10) How much of the 1990s "prosperity" in >the US was information technology based, you >think? Very vague question. No can really pinpoint to a specific number if that's what you are after. However, you can break it down to sectors, such as how much did this sector of the industry (i.e. electronic commerce, storage business ) do last year and so forth. I hope this helps, -Sujan |
| paramendra | Posted
on 02-Sep-02 09:29 PM
Sujan: Thanks for taking the time. Your answers are informed. I guess I could have looked up stuff online, and I have my opinions, but I was missing this topic at this online community. Maybe, thanks to you, this will gather steam. One does not have to conduct research before one brings up a question here. I don't think so. Though I must admit, having realized, tech-wise, Kurakani is HTML-rich, I have been adding links to reference sites. Check out the democracy in China topic started by Ananta. Realizing the Information Future: The Internet and Beyond Welcome the FUTURE of INTERNET! The Future UK Internet Awards 2002 - The Awards Governing the DNS Commons The Future of Internet Voting Future Publishing AppML the Future of Internet Programming PenguinRadio - Internet Radio Directory FAQ 11/14/99: The Future of Internet Taxation Story: The Future of Internet Advertising (and How to Cash In) NewArch Project: Future-Generation Internet Architecture Arbitrary definitions cloud the future of Internet Freeware+ - The Future of Internet Marketing The Future of the Internet - What Role for Europe? XML: The Future of Internet Publishing |
| paramendra | Posted
on 02-Sep-02 09:31 PM
The Future of Internet Metadata FundsXpress: Providing the Future of Internet Banking, Lending ... Paper -- The Future of Internet Worms The future of Internet domain names BBC - Bristol Digital Future - Broadband, internet and tech news LEARN THE NET: The Future of the Internet UCLA Center for Communication Policy - Internet Report Information Warfare, Cyberwar - Future of Internet & Computer ... Mobile Agents and the Future of the Internet CSTB Publication: Realizing the Information Future: The Internet ... ARP NewArch Project: Future-Generation Internet Architecture Transaction Net: 'The Internet & the Future of Money' iConnectHere - The Future of Internet Telephony Going Digital: The Future of the Internet in Greater China Silicon Valley History and Future -- Introduction |
| paramendra | Posted
on 02-Sep-02 09:43 PM
Sujan: By the bubble, I meant, can you compare it to stock market behavior at the onset of the industrial revolution in the US? Similar volatility? Because of new territory? "Yahoo! was once worth $81 B. And at the same time G.M. was valued at $31 B." I am on record saying, in 1999, that companies that don't even expect to be making profits are doomed. That is an abuse of the new economy. You don't have to be making immediate profits. But the expanded market evaluation has to be translated into stuff of real economic value that, down the line, generate profits. That was kind of new. Come up with some great idea, exhibit ability to execute it, and let the market fund you. That felt futuristic. Especially as compared to say Nepal where you largely have to have babu-baje ko sampatti to do anything seriously entrepreneurial. But there was too much of abuse of the new rules. Digital divide. Pehaps another thread? Or perhaps a sub-thread right here. On the IC-PC question, I perhaps did not explain myself clearly. What I am suggesting is this: just like the PC displaced the big machines before it, do you think a leaner, "meaner" IC will displace the PC? As in, do you envision web-based word processing? I would like to repeat my question about the screen, since you seem to have relevant research experience: A screen as good as paper, for example? As in terms of resolution. How possible is that? How far away? The 1990s. Towards the end it was being said, if the US was worth $1, then 33 of those cents got created in the 90s. I feel that has not been credited enough. The IT. The political leadership. The "information age," "new economy" terminology. Thanks again for taking the time. I look forward to hearing what you might have to say. And please feel free to add weblinks for references, or points in your field you might not want to repeat for the lay audience. |
| ? | Posted
on 03-Sep-02 12:40 PM
For the record, PC or personal computer is a category of computer which serves end users to help with tasks such as wordprocessing, internet, games to name a few. The bigger machines (eg, mainframe) were never meant to be replaced by PCs and they are used to provide backend to every existing computing technology especially networking, servers, power computing and of course, the internet. The technology you're trying to refer to ('web-based' word processing) have already been implemented in different office flavors (openoffice, office xp & 2k ). IC or internet computer, as you refer to, is a non existent terminology or vague at the best. The reason is, you'd find it rather hard to get a computer not hooked up to the net especially in the US. Maybe what you're trying to refer to are the internet appliances. And if you're trying to refer to internet appliances, they do exist(web based refrigerators, microwaves, oven etc. and I have seen them at use in south korea). Its just that they're too fancy to be common everywhere. forgive my grammatical mistakes, I am in bit of a hurry |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Sep-02 08:42 PM
?: My response is not an agreement or a disagreement. But I dispute some of what you say. There was a major tussle inside Microsoft in the late 1990s. One camp, Gates included, insisted Windows is it. Another camp suggested everything done on Windows has to be shifted to a web-based platform. That is a radically different approach to personal computing, as put forth. Larry Ellison, the Oracle guy, actually put forth what he called the Network Computer around 1996. It is another story that the idea did not go far. Imagine a screen with such a high resolution that it is as good as paper. Hence no need to print stuff. And imagine rich web contents, text, audio, video. Include serious educational stuff. You could have Ivy League lectures viewed in real time in Kathmandu. The most current journals. A computer that only takes you online would be much cheaper. Starting price perhaps 150 dollars, to go down with popularity. Do you realize the impact that would have on the Global South? The PC is largely a rich country phenomenon. It might touch the elite in the Global South. But only an IC can become the true personal computer all over the planet. Can't rule it out. |
| IT | Posted
on 05-Sep-02 09:35 PM
> >My response is not an agreement or a >disagreement. But I dispute some of what you >say. > >There was a major tussle inside Microsoft in >the late 1990s. One camp, Gates included, >insisted Windows is it. Another camp >suggested everything done on Windows has to >be shifted to a web-based platform. That is >a radically different approach to personal >computing, as put forth. Larry Ellison, the >Oracle guy, actually put forth what he >called the Network Computer around 1996. It >is another story that the idea did not go >far. >Imagine a screen with such a high resolution >that it is as good as paper. Hence no need >to print stuff. And imagine rich web >contents, text, audio, video. Include >serious educational stuff. You could have >Ivy League lectures viewed in real time in >Kathmandu. The most current journals. check out this baby " World's Highest-Resolution Computer Monitor" costs about $22,000 http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/resources/news/20010627_display.shtml >A computer that only takes you online would >be much cheaper. Starting price perhaps 150 >dollars, to go down with popularity. Do you >realize the impact that would have on the >Global South? The PC is largely a rich >country phenomenon. It might touch the elite >in the Global South. But only an IC can >become the true personal computer all over >the planet. i don't if you have seen this before but here is something that might make a difference http://www.simputer.org >Can't rule it out. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Sep-02 03:35 PM
Book Reviews (II) Paramendra Bhagat September 18, 2002 http://www.geocities.com/paramendra/2002/books2.html Bank, David. Breaking Windows: How Bill Gates Fumbled The Future Of Microsoft. The Free Press. New York: 2001. This book is supposed to convince you Bill Gates messed up, that he had the opportunity to move on to an Internet Platform in the late 1990s and leave Windows behind, but I emerged admiring Gates even more. (Caution, the final few pages end on a good note for the Big B though.) My instincts should have lead me otherwise. I spent my final three years at college trying to convince people to work to launch a company whose only product was to be a website. But then we are not in the broadband era yet and freeware resulted in a massive dot com meltdown. The book also whetted my personal appetite for XML and Java, something I hope to delve into teaching myself in bits and parts online. My favorite paragraph-segment in the book is on pages 223-24: ".....Among the .Net "building blocks" Gates identified were Identity and Personalization, all the services of authentication, billing, personal information, and legal accountability; Notification and Messaging, the fabric for knitting digital devices into a real-time communication network that would ultimately subsume the telephone; Storage and Delivery, the distribution and retrieval of all kinds of digital goods, from music to photos to software itself; Directory and Search, the core navigational tools for finding networked resources and information; and Calendar and Collaboration, the central repository for coordinating meetings and schedules." Microsoft is not exactly a start-up, but it has not yet become an IBM. And I was particularly touched to read about Bill Gates' summer 2000 reading vacation in Australia when he took a trunk load of books on health issues in the poor countries. The guy has poured billions into the effort. He can't be all that evil if his heart is in all those right places. The writer covers Microsoft for The Wall Street Journal. "The Internet is indeed a subversive force. From the time it attained critical mass, the Internet has been a great civic resource and a rolling business disaster, sucking the profit margins out of retailing, then music, and then software itself." |
| paramendra | Posted
on 13-Oct-02 03:18 PM
Sujan and SMSainju at Sajha have been posting links to some interesting articles on the IT sector. Recently there was this piece of Linux, and how it was making serious inroads into Windows territory. Been reading such claims for years now. But this particular article was in the Economist. And one in the Washington Post about an Office substitute. Any comments? Are these merely flashes in the pan? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 13-Oct-02 03:29 PM
IT: I visited the two links you provide: IBM Introduces World's Highest-Resolution Computer Monitor --- Read with interest. "...photograph-quality imaging ... The T220 also can show several of the highest definition HDTV channels simultaneously .... Physicians will be able to view digitally photographed X-rays on the display ..... a trading desk .... Automotive -- Crisp digital images can replace hand-built design models ... Weather Forecasting -- Large printed satellite maps and photographs can be replaced with photo-quality digital images ..... The monitor features an active matrix liquid crystal display based on research that allowed the IBM team to use aluminum instead of molybdenum and tungsten, metals traditionally used in displays. " The cost is a bummer. Hopefully it will come down over time. Simputer "... Rs 9000 .... " It is an attractive offer. But is it web-connected? |