| Hari |
Posted
on 24-Apr-01 08:10 AM
This was sparked by the recent exchange between ashu and Hom Raj in another thread on the usage of "jee" or "ji" in the Nepali common speech.
The closest equivalent to "jee" in English (that I can gather) is using the unfamiliar "Mr." or "Dr." or another title to address someone that you have limited contact with and is generally considered an "acquaintance" or a "colleague" rather than a "friend" at which point the use of the titular modifier drops, and the first name is used instead of the last.
In Nepal too, the same thing applies, but I've noticed that except for lifelong friends (high school and college buddies, or one's "gaunle" or some distant relative) that usage of "jee" never completely disappears. Perhaps this is the same in the US, and perhaps I just haven't been here long enough to notice it.
So, coming back to the actual exchange between ashu and Hom Raj of the usage of "jee". ashu claims that since he is younger than Hom Raj, Hom Raj need not call him "jee". This is not really a difference across cultures. Even here in the US, someone younger is usually not referred to as a "Mr." except in "professional" settings when working in, generally, a superior/subordinate relationship or a relationship as colleagues from different departments.
Dui Paise Musings,
Hari
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| sally |
Posted
on 24-Apr-01 12:40 PM
As a native speaker of English, I've got couple thoughts about formality/informality in English and Nepali.
I agree with Hari; I don't really think of "ji" and "Mr" as precisely equivalent. But there are lots of things about how people give respect in English that aren't taught in English classes overseas!
Both "ji" and "Mr/Ms/Mrs" are ways of showing respect, of course. At least initially. But in English--at least in America in the last few decades--we've tended to show respect by INformality.
In our culture, a high value is placed on putting people at ease through friendliness. I think this value exists in every culture; it's just expressed differently. One way we've been expressing it over the last few decades has been through dropping courtesy titles. To call someone by a "respect title" not only implies distance; it's actually pretty uncomfortable for a lot of Americans these days.
There's been a real generational shift. My dad recalls that in his youth, there were still elderly people around who insisted on referring to their own spouses as "Mr. Jones" or "Mrs. Jones." That holdover from the Victorian era has long since vanished, but my dad--a transitional generation--confesses to being uncomfortable when younger people call him by his first name. He prefers to be a "Mr."
In my dad's generation, people would first call each other "Mr"--especially if they were different ages--and then, as they got to know each other, would drop the courtesy title if they were roughly the same age. But now, it's different. There are many, many people who I know only by first names. Usually when you meet a person and get their phone number, they write only their first name--not even including the last name--and sometimes it will be months before you ever learn it.
Professors often prefer to be called by their first names. Kids call their friends' parents by their first names. In some elementary schools, teachers are known by their first names. (This depends partly on the area of the country.) Basically, the under-40 generation and a considerable portion of the Baby Boomers dispense with "courtesy titles" almost completely until you get way, way up the ladder.
It would actually feel rude to me to call my supervisor "Ms. Kelly." Even during my job interview, there was no "Ms/Miss/Mrs." Same with her boss, and the guy above him ... I've never called any of them by anything other than their first names.
Interestingly, it really doesn't have anything to do with GENUINE friendship. I'm not buddies with the vice president where I work, but I call him Tom. Anything else would feel wrong! I really think it can most accurately be seen as a way of showing respect through politeness, since an appearance of distance and aloofness is rude. (Even if, in personal terms, you ARE distant!)
On the other hand, I've observed that Nepalis often call each other "ji" and use "hajur" forms even when they're very close friends. It seems to have less of the distancing effect of the modern "Mr." while perhaps retaining more of what was originally intended (and probably felt) by people who, a century ago, used "Mr" and "Miss" even for their friends.
But in Nepal, too, that may be changing with more contact from the West--as we saw in the comment about using/not using "ji."
Just thought I'd throw in my own dui paise!
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