| Username |
Post |
| concerned sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 08:29 AM
Can you please tell me if this is a threat to Rekha and her family? What does viewfinder think he/s is doing when telling Rekha "to shut up before its too late?" If people threatening you to threaten you and your family for expressing an opinion, should you report it to the authorities? Who knows who this viewfinder is? What if this is not an idle threat? What even if it is? I have noticed how people are always trying to find out your whereabouts. Why is that? Who are these people?
Personally I find this frightening. Site Adminstrator - please address the issue at hand and other folks please speak up.............
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viewfinder Posted on 08-27-02 6:23 PM Reply
ekha aka Reshma naani,
you better shut your pie hole now before it's tooooooo late. it'll do good for you and your family believe me.
yeah! citizen i totally agree with you.
shubhachintak didi
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 08:37 AM
Concerned Sajhaite:
I am not aware of the "threat" you have posted, but if what you have posted is the case then, yes, that is a threat, and grounds for possible legal action.
Due to the Sajha Disclaimer (Terms of Service), the Sajha webmaster(s) are bound by law to disclose the identity of the person issuing the threat, should "Rekha" pursue the matter.
Or that person can post a retraction, and apologize. If Rekha will have it.
You are right. This is a serious matter.
At the least, the guy is some sexist pig. He wants her to "shut up," pure and simple. In his worldview, women come without opinions of their own, they don't disagree, and they shut up when you ask them to shut up.
Other Sajhaites have to jump in and speak against this pest-person, at the least.
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| concerned Sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:08 AM
Thank you Paramendra:
That post I copied is from a thread on "Nepalipan." It is a serious matter! I don't think people realize that the internet is not a void where you throw your two cents and it disappears for ever. If I am threatened by someone online or in real life, I take it pretty seriously. Because I don't know what that person is capable of and how determined that person is. I might shrug off a small comment here and there, but not a threat, that too of me AND my family! I am not Rekha and can't speak for her, but I am hoping that the jerks have not shut her up for good.
What I find amazing is that "viewfinder" is a registered name! So who is it? Does this confirm the questions that have been swirling around here that "registering" does not mean accountability? How does one ensure accountability on a cyber forum?
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:14 AM
Pramendra ji has following statement, appears almost always asking
Sajhaitians to keep on jumping some "rabis infected dog" class silly peoples.
When Sajha.com is too open without any moderation, despite we know
we have to protect minorities, but, I wonder whether we can always
jump on those silly pigs and I guess sometime its good if we just neglect them.
I think lets grow to above some datum and neglect the HATES and humiliations
that come from some mad dogs, as long as its very random and not continous.
Because if we jump on them, either we have to kill them or break their their
backbone, and if we can not do it, we are promoting them. My request to
Pramendra is not to expect whole Sajahtians to jump on every issues and
please, don't use Bush's remarks "either you are with us, or you are terrorists".
What I want to say here is, when you appear in public, lets growup and
absorb some bottom line hates when its random, I mean not continous.
Pramendra ji writes:
"Other Sajhaites have to jump in and speak against this pest-person, at the least".
Meanwhile, I understand the feeling of the particular person who was abused,
it is also a learning process to whom to neglect and to whom we should chase
to until he vanish.
HG
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| your name |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:27 AM
the precautionary principle would hold that these malevolent agents should be prosecuted under the existing laws pertaining to making terrorist threats. we all see what happens in communities like nepal and sajha when the majority habitually cowers and gives in to these criminals, who should be forced to defend themselves in criminal court.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:28 AM
I had always been advocating to have some (few dozen judges) in this forum.
What they have to do is just press on a questionable thread and move it
to we have differences section provided by SAn or even kick oout the
writer "his IP address" .
My idea is:
1. we create 2 dozen judges (so that result is not biased). Based on past
postings. among registered users.
2. Whenever they view any thread, they have a list of optioins
[ ] ban writer and purge the posting (score 12)
[ ] restrict the writer for a week and purge article (10)
[ ] reject thread (score 8)
[] move to other section like we have differences (score 6)
3. if a posting gets total score (total of judges) of
ban writer and purge the posting as early as the score exceeds 120.
restrict the writer for a week and purge article as early as the score exceeds 100
reject thread as early as the score exceeds 80
move to other section like we have differences 60
Well, its a burden to San, but, its worth in long run. Because san will not
have to keep on watching the website and keep on getting complain all the
time that he should or should not ban such silly pigs.
HG
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| Nhuchche |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:33 AM
HahooGuruJi,
I think this site is fine the way it is. I have noticed that you've suggested quite a few times about having a panel of people to decide on things. As soon as there's a panel of people, there's politics. That's the last thing we need on sajha.
As it is noted, anyone who has any problems with any postings can personally email the site admin and it can be handled on a one to one basis. I do not think there has been too many of those where the site admin has been contacted personally.
Personally, I think too many rules would spoil the fun that we all have here at the sajha grounds!
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:42 AM
HahooGuru:
(1) I am against any attempt at curtailing free speech at the site.
(2) But what has been poited out here is a possible criminal act. And for that we have law enforcement people.
(3) Person A can disagree with person B. Person A can possibly even insult person B, make racist/sexist remarks. That might be wrong sometimes, but not illegal, depending on the context. But Person A can not threaten Person B and her family. That is a criminal act not because I disagree with it, but because the law says so.
(4) I think the least disruptive next step would be for the person to apologize to Rekha and take back his words. Along the same thread. Technically speaking, no posting at the site is anonymous.
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| Koko |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:46 AM
Man on Man,
Look at these two tack dogs Paramendra and Haahoo wants to take over Saajha and run it like a Neapali Govt. Agency. Hey haahoo two words for you ma man FREE SPEECH deal with it. If there is any sort of personal threat as nuche said you can email the site admin. But we definately do not want you or Paramendra on the comittee if thats what you are trying to achieve. Besides there has not been any grave incidents here to raise such concerns..
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| concerned Shajhaites |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:49 AM
Hahoo Guru:
You raise an interesting point. The rabid dog analogy only goes so far when talking about interactions between humans and the lack of accountability that some show towards others! But if we ARE to stick to the rabid dog analogy, you don't need to kill or break the bones of the dog to stop its attack! Animals are usually afraid of humans and especially humans who make a lot of noise and bang the pots. I think when Paramendra says "jump in and speak against this pest-person, at the least," he is not advocating for anything more than people speaking up and articulating what is and is not aceptable to them as a Member of this cyber community.
The strongest action against hate/prejudice/persecution is often not the "heroic" and huge "public" acts, but the small defiances of individuals who speak up aginst the injustices. If anything needs to be done, the individual in question, Rekha and viewfinder, will have to do it. But as members of this community, we cannot sit back and watch only. It is simply dispicable to do otherwise... I am not saying you are advocating that by the way.
Your arguement... "when you appear in public, lets growup and absorb some bottom line hates when its random, I mean not continous." is valid. But does an individual have to be stalked or threatened multiple times before the community will act? Does it have to be the same individual who is harasses always for us to act. What about hatred and malice directed at a particular gender or a class or group? Like women? Are we going to choose to remain blind to the forest and simply remain absorbed in trees?
And I have heard this argument... "in sajha you are a public person... be ready to be lampooned, develop a thick skin etc." recently again here on sajha." Fine enough, but what is the line between lampooning versus personal attacks that go beyond your cyber public figure?
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| Desh_Bhakta_Bhattarai |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:57 AM
I agree with HahooGuru
By the way -- Sajha.com should only be for the registered posters + the postings should be checked and accepted by the administraters. Sajha.com is being a little too sajha. There should be a system of "Report Abuse" and "Block Abuser" so that the privelages of sajha.com are not taken as advantages to abuse.
~DBB
DISCALIMER: Just a suggestion for San, I dont say that you have to go on with my idea. I'm just utilizing my freedom of speech.
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 09:58 AM
Koko:
My stated position (right above your message) is the opposite of what you state it to be. I am against the committe idea.
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| threat? |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:00 AM
After reading the Nepalipan thread, I didn't find viewfinder's comments as threats. Since Rekha hit hard on illegals on that thread, viewfinder was warning her to reveal her status or how she became US citizen. It looks like viewfinder knows Rekha and seems to me that this concerned guy(?) is desparate to know her identity as well.
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| concerned Sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:01 AM
KOKO:
Free speech goes only so far... even in this country... the United States of America! If you threaten someone that id ILLEGAL! Noone is saying run Sajha needs to be run like the Nepali Government. Hahoo Guru's ideas are creative and interesting... he has put it out there excercising HIS FREE SPEECH and for us to consider. If you don't like it just say that... there is no need to be personal and vindictive.
Yeah San owns this site and people can deal with problems that arise individually with him. San has been very receptive in the past. But why does it seem that Sajha visitors (and dare I even say, Nepalis in general) seem so disinclined to discuss what are essentially community issues. Why are we so reluctant to take accountability as a community for what goes on in the community! San, has always welcomed visitors to share ideas and take ownership of the site. But it seems we are always insisting that HE deal with it. Is this like a miniature Nepal... as in Nepalis are essentially feudalistic (and seem to want to remain so).. can't deal with democracy and the idea that as a group we can and should govern our ownselves and hold ourselved accountable?
What is it? Enlighten me! (without personal attacks please)
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:05 AM
We have had this "freedom of speech" or "committee" debate at this other web community I am part of. The writer ran for Congress in 2000 and is doing so again in 2002. California 29, the Hollywood constituency.
Filters: If We Don't Speak Today, Will "1984's" "NewSpeak" Become Tomorrow's No-Speak?
http://www.epinions.com/kifm-review-14D6-670147E-3959EBB8-prod1
Why Swat A Housefly With A Bazooka?
http://www.epinions.com/kifm-review-10EC-B9F5969-39673A00-prod3
The Writer's Voice
http://www.epinions.com/user-review-DD8-2FAACAA-39329172-prod5
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| concerned Sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:11 AM
Threat?
Yes threat! I have to admit I did not real every post on that thread about Nepalipan. but I read enough to know that Rekha's opinion was disliked by many. Instead of dealing with her ideas and her "cyber persona"... people had to threaten her... how do we know what viewfinder's intention was. Are you viewfinder? If you are speak up and retract it! If not, don't speak for that person. I am not interested in Rekha and don't care who she is where she lives, eats, drinks or for that matter how she got her citizenship. I respect that she has an opinion and that is hers to keep and express. Besides, this thread and the issues raised here are not about REKHA per se, but rather about issues that are larger than a single individual.
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| ? |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:21 AM
I detest any form of active moderation in the board. I believe it will infringe my right to free speech and expression. Other than that, I hate to have my idea deemed OK by someone who feel that his/her judgement on issues is superior than mine. Bile arguments can be simply be ignored, there is no better solution. If is a thread were to be deemed truely inappropriate, one can have his voice heard by writing to the site admin, hopefully he/she will delete it. The site admin has done whatever has been in the best interest of the participants, time after time in a very reasonable manner. And I have faith in that.
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| threat? |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:32 AM
concerned:
No, I'm not 'viewfinder'. I'm waiting to see her (subhachintak didi? on that thread) coments as well. If you have not read the whole thing, do so first and start making comments later. If it is a real threat (which i doubt) against Rekha, then she should go with authorities who will contact site admin if needed. You claim that you are not Rekha and you are crying with site admin to reveal 'viewfinder's identity. What's up with that? You should have written this in the same 'nepalipan' thread in order for others to understand what you are saying. You are changing the subject here. If you read carefully the other thread, viewfinder has referred to (agreed with) other posters.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:35 AM
Pramendra,
Free Speech is as vague as Beautiful Woman. When you talk using
word / jargon "criminal", then, I am not sure whether you definition of
Free Speech is problematic or wise. Please go and read again your
own posting. When you use word "crime" , you are asking for
"judgement", and then, the judges are those who judge whether
someone has commited "crime" or not.
HG
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:47 AM
We (Pramendra ane me) were talking the same thing, but, using different
words, and different approach. Pramendra wants Rekha to waste huge
time to go to police or authorities and ask for actions. Can we approach
to police for things we could solve it just by introducing more generous
judgement methods. If it is problematic to have some dedicated judges,
then, why don't we let every reader judge the article. When majority after
100 readers say BAN it, ban the posts.
BTW, do you know how a news group is (USE NET) generated? I don't know
recent rules, but, when SCN was there, rule was the readers of some other
user groups used to initiate a proposal and ... after some level of announcements
they had to collect votes and if YES+NO vote exceeds 100, and YES-NO
(differenceS) is also 100, a news group was borned. If we have millions of
usergroup today using such FREE and democratic method, why can not we
use it in Sajha.com. Don't use FREE FREE FREEly, your Freedom limit is constrained by
others freedom. So, we need judges whether you can not have freedom to enjoy
your freedom without hindering others freedom. So, why should we go to
govt. authorities for things which we as community could solve it? Give me
answer, not excuses.
HG
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| ? |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:50 AM
Most of the usenets I post dont have any active moderation at all. Unless of course, when someone is irrational (like exposing address, making threats by full name and other disclosures).
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| ? |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 10:56 AM
I scrolled down the webpage to read the disclaimer and it reads:
BY THEIR VERY NATURE, DISCUSSION FORUMS MAY CARRY OFFENSIVE, HARMFUL, INACCURATE OR OTHERWISE INAPPROPRIATE MATERIAL, OR IN SOME CASES, POSTINGS THAT HAVE BEEN MISLABELED OR ARE OTHERWISE DECEPTIVE. WE EXPECT THAT YOU WILL USE CAUTION AND COMMON SENSE AND EXERCISE PROPER JUDGMENT WHEN POSTING TO OR VIEWING KURAKANI.
and I particularly like this one:
Your use of the Web Site is at your own risk. If you are dissatisfied with any of the Materials or other contents of the Web Site or with these Terms and Conditions, or other policies, your sole remedy is to discontinue use of the Web Site.
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| concerned sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 11:03 AM
threat:
"You claim that you are not Rekha and you are crying with site admin to reveal 'viewfinder's identity. What's up with that? You should have written this in the same 'nepalipan' thread in order for others to understand what you are saying. You are changing the subject here. If you read carefully the other thread, viewfinder has referred to (agreed with) other posters."
I am not "crying with the site admin" or you or anyone for anything. My question in the first post - "Who are these people?" was a rhetorical question. I definitely am not asking you, viewfinder, or Rekha to identify yourselves. I reiterate again, the question at hand is not about a single individual but what WE as a "collective".... a community of visitors to this site deem acceptable. I am not changing the subject! and even if I am that is my perogative.
So viewfinder agrees with other posters (on the issue of illegals verseus legal residents making more money). But the "threat" is his/her own. We have to be individually accountable and as a community as well. Besides, even if eveyone started to say, yeah lets find Rekha and reveal her "real self" that does not make it right. That would be akin to a lynching!
When i asked the site adminstrator and others to address the issue, I am not askign for active "intervention." But rather to discuss the issues at hand. I am not a proponent of active moderation or a panel of judges. But rather of community policing itself... and if you don't like the word "policing" then I how about "accountability" or say, "community standards"!
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| GURU Fan |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 11:12 AM
C'mon HahooGuru,
Learn to accept that you r always not right. Man, sometime you get so rapped up and go detail, with your physics theory etc., to prove your usless point. Thanks God !you have not started to do that on this thread yet.
We missed u when you were absent now you r back, but u came with your head full with of junk theories..
We want our previous HahooGuru back!!
your fan....
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| viewfinder |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 12:23 PM
ohh well...
what is this all about gentlmen? threat and me? Never goes well with my name mind it. not here in Sajha atleast. simply i didn't like her opinion and i dare to reply. what's wrong with it? and there was someone else's reply before me to be noted. FYI I AM SHE not HE. if you want my identity write to me personally instead seeking any help from admin.
No FURTHER COMMENTS.
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| concerned sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 12:39 PM
Viewfinder:
"ohh well...
what is this all about gentlmen? threat and me? Never goes well with my name mind it. not here in Sajha atleast. simply i didn't like her opinion and i dare to reply. what's wrong with it? and there was someone else's reply before me to be noted. FYI I AM SHE not HE. if you want my identity write to me personally instead seeking any help from admin.
No FURTHER COMMENTS."
Must be nice to shrug it off... Nothing is wrong in replying to anyone, but before you hit the "submit message button," you might want to consider WHAT you are writing and HOW it will be interpreted. Responding to someone and sayin gyou disagree is one thing - but to say " shut up or else" is another.
And about your identity... no one gives a crap about that, at least, I don't!
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| viewfinder |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 03:32 PM
excuse me? Mr/Ms concerned sajhaite say it again?
<>
ohh yeah !!! you said something about " submit message button " in your earlier posting right? if i read it correctly. after reading your last lines it seem your fingers slipped and pressed it. accidentally? who knows? unlike you i do not mind what you say or what you write. i welcome any criticism good or bad. even so called threats? after all I KNOW WHO I AM AND WHAT I AM. and remember sajha means cyber vertex.
before signing off thank you for not showing any interest about my ID. i'm very much relieved honestly.
do me a favor don't bother to reply any more. should i say enuff?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< PERIOD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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| concerned sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 04:10 PM
Say, did you shake your index finder and have your other hand on your hip when you said "Excuse me?"
I really did not know "sajha means cyber vertex" or did you mean VORTEX. Either way, it makes no sense or any difference.
From your first response I knew you did not give a damn about what I said or anyone else for that matter. But I am sure it will catch up to you sometime though. Some form of karmic justice will be served. Meanwhile you might learn to be a little humble. Hubris is not a good thing, be it in real life or cyber space.
And you *should be* relieved that noone is interested in your whereabouts or your real identity because that would be frightening and then lawsuits are a drag and very expensive, you know!
And I am not here to do you or anyone else a favor! Ask someone else.
Period?
Oh, that kind of "period." For a second I thought you were on the rag.
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| concerned sajhaite |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 04:49 PM
And since "threat" said I should go back and read the thread that started this discussion in the first place, I did.
And guess what... Euta Thita writes more vociferously than anyone in there about illegal immigrants. How come no one was trying to find out where he lives and no one was telling HIM to "shut your pie hole now before it's tooooooo late. it'll do good for you and your family believe me." I wonder.............
Could it be it is because Rekha is FEMALE? And before Ms. Viewfinder and her friends jump on me - let me put a concept out there - "internalized oppression" as in "internalized sexism." Viewfinder, I have to give it to you. You surely learned your lessons well... if you keep at it you will one day make a very good "typical Nepali mother-in-law" terrorizing your daughter-in-law to tears.
Good job!
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| RX 300 |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 05:32 PM
bull shit thread..Rekha knows how to take care of her self. No one needs to worry about her as smart as she is.
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| Euta Thita |
Posted
on 28-Aug-02 05:49 PM
Well, I think the guys probably thought Rekha, who they believe is someone from Bolder, got her citizenship by not-so legal methods or something, hence the threat. They had threatened her about two months ago too, if I remember correctly....They think they know who Rekha is, but guess what, Rekha is a common name...she could be any of the hundreds of thousands of Rekhas floating around. I don't think they mean to hurt her physically. Coz if they are, they will be in deep trouble...FBI can hunt you down these days...remember homeland security?
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