| Username |
Post |
| makuro |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 12:16 PM
From : Kathmandu Post(Sunday Post?)
Men, Marriage & Mentality
Perceptions of single Nepali women in US
By Smriti Dhungel Gyawali
PHOENIX, Arizona, Sept 28:Kanchana Adhikary, 25, drives her newly bought Silver Jetta as she hums her favorite music "Kabhi Kabhi", on her way to work at Motorola Corporation. Her designation, Electrical Engineer, for the past two years.
Now living an independent life in her apartment she adds, "When I was in Nepal I always dreamt of leading an independent life, I guess sometimes dreams do come true. Coming here has not only made me independent but has changed my outlook, it has made me aggressive in decision-making and in believing that women are just as equal as men in every way, no matter how the tradition in Nepal tends to make you feel lesser than them."
Like Kanchana, there are thousands of young and single Nepali women who come to the United States for higher education. A few years in America changes their perceptions on traditions, marriage, and men, perceptions that used to bewilder them while making major decisions of life.
According to Nepal Rastra Bank reports, based on research from foreign currency transactions, the number of those going abroad was 5,002 in 1995/96, which stood at 12,000 as of December 2001. Each year, about 1,400 Nepalese leave on student visas to pursue higher studies abroad and statistics show 38 percent are females.
The ANA (Association of Nepalese in the Americas) reports that registration for the Annual Convention in July, showed that 40 percent of the students enrolled were females.
Surprisingly, when questioned on their perceptions towards marriage and men, the young and outgoing Nepali students had a lot to say.
Yukta Regmi, 17, from Tennessee said, "I would love to marry a Nepali guy but what I see is that Nepali guys think very low of women unlike American men, and I don’t know how they will treat us."
Manisha Gautam, 19, from Virginia had something very interesting as she openly spoke out, "I think marrying a Nepali guy here is okay but marrying in Nepal is not in my list, as most traditions there are too extreme and it is very tough living with rigid traditions."
Adds Kanchana, "I don’t mind living in Nepal after marriage provided my husband’s family are understanding, give me enough space, and respect me; but if they are dominating with the "do-this-do-that" attitude, no way would I want to stick up with them, I would rather live independent."
Talking about social pressure from parents to marry in own castes, these women had different views. "I have an American boyfriend and I have been living with him for the last two years. I dared to open up to my parents about this," recalls Nishal Pradhan, 23, from Washington DC. "But It was amazing how coolly they took the whole thing. They even came to America to meet him which was a huge relief to me."
For others like Priya (Identity not disclosed) it was a different story. "My parents insist that I marry a Newari guy, but I don’t know how to tell them that I am already engaged to an American," she said. "It would break their hearts. It is sad as they are still looking for a husband for me."
Karishma Upadhyay, 24, from Minneapolis, adds, "Of course there is parental pressure towards marriage but I would at least want to get to know the Nepali Guy from my caste, that my parents choose for me, before I come up with a definite answer. I think the time factor to know any guy is important."
The role of the husband was another issue that most girls wanted to stress on. Suruchi Jyoti, 25, from Boston, came flat out with. "In this aspect, I am glad that I am westernised. It is only fair that a "male spouse" should contribute to the household duties as well, since "women spouses" are nowadays contributing to the household earnings, whether it be in Nepal or the US".
Adds Sweta Lamichhane, 18, from Maryland, "Despite having been brought up in the US, there is this pressure to marry a Nepali. I want to marry a Nepali guy but one who has been born and brought up here too as there would be a better understanding."
Young single women studying abroad all have their personal perceptions that they are entitled too. According to most young women, the changes in their perception have made them better and more competent, whether the "in the name of cul
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| makuro |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 12:17 PM
chopped off portion....
Young single women studying abroad all have their personal perceptions that they are entitled too. According to most young women, the changes in their perception have made them better and more competent, whether the "in the name of culture" rules favour them or not.
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| ??! |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 12:37 PM
Okay, time has to come to change for Nepali men to give equal respect to women. However, I wonder what the author wanted to focus? A change in paradigm within America born, America grown up Nepali women? or those who came to America for higher studies and settled later in the US? Students can't take their SLC exam until they are 16. Then they have to wait for result, look for schools and apply for VISA and whole other things. Isn't it too early for these 17 or 18 year old girls (if they came from Nepal for higher studies) to brag about? If they are grown up here... no problem... they said so....
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| Katmandude |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 04:28 PM
I read this article...as a nepali male, I am curious what women expect from men who are here in US?
I have lots of married friends and they treat their wives very well or at least it seems so.
What specificially do women expect from nepali men who are here in US?
Just curious...
k'dude
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 05:25 PM
I guess these women need some serious rapping in the head. To hell with women who advocate equality with men. Yeah, like drinking and smoking and going to bars will make them equal. Men don't get pregnant, you know, women do. It's their prospective babies that will be affected in the long run if they go on a binge-drinking rampage because of keeping faith in ludicrous ideas like, "Oh, I am so equal, I drink and smoke and love bungy jumping!!" .
If we really want equality, then let's toss men and women in the same boxing ring, or let's put them together in the same race course. Remember these women's names, people! They are bona fide S-L-U-T-S (or bhalus, as we like to call them) by Nepali standards; try to avoid them as much as possible. These women aren't educated, for Christ's sakes. They go to sucky third tier schools and aren't even able to score passing grades in introductory courses, much less graduate.
Now, I don't agree with what Pat Robertson has to say about non Judeo-Christian religions, or his other views, in general, but he is right about one thing -- feminists suck! I hope these women end up marrying men with penchant for homosexuality and cross-dressing.
How hard is it to find an educated woman raised with proper moral values??? If you go to high-caliber schools, you'll see P-L-E-N-T-Y of NEPALI women (heck even American women) who will meet your expectations. Don't get ensnared by women at the bottom who root for equality. That's the bottomline!
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 06:14 PM
Wow!!!! Quite an article there!!!!!!!!!!
Ok...before we jump into conclusions....Note the age of the women interviewed. There is a slight bias, there don't you think??????????? It is definitely a slanted article as far as age and maturity goes. Regardless of where these ladies were born...here or in Nepal, they do belong to the MTV generation.....with it's western affectations! The west is as notorious in spousal abuse as is in the East. Hence, Social services and home for battered women exist here! Anyways the misconceptions depicted in the article clearly shows that the writer did not do her home work!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since when did teenagers and early 20yr olds start representing the perceptions of single women in US. Come now.... if I sit down and meticulously tear apart this article and its credibility, the very fabric of the title will go up in smoke! This is a "quickie" article written to incite many!
Bhedo ji,
It is not about feminism that most "educated" Nepalese women are concerned about....it is about "open-mindedness". To incite your kind of reaction was the purpose of the article.... so that the writer can say "And I rest my case!!!!!" And yes, I have known more Asians who are open-minded than Americans! Otherwise, racism would not exist here now would it? Many westerners are taken in by the "foreign" and the "exotic" when they accept spouses from outside the Western culture. And vice versa too exists!
My thoughts on this...........???????????? A half baked article. However, listen to what the girls are saying too.... without denouncing their views.
Speaking for myself, I respect my culture and cultural values however, I do value my space and independence....which does not indicate that Nepali men are going to encroach on my space! Anyone can, man, woman, friend or foe. I think it is more of an individuality issue than anything else! The freedom to choose and make decisions based on those choices. However, this very same thing is applicable to Nepalese men too....hoina ra?
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 06:25 PM
Ho Ho Ho Sitara, I agree with you 100%. Good thing you detected that fallacy. Would you mind telling us curious folks how old you are? You are very very.......intelligent!
I love you! Wanna get married????
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| ??! |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 06:45 PM
Kasto bhedo raichha!
Just kidding man...
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| Biruwa |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 07:02 PM
This article has sensationalized the issue of equality among the two biggest 'Jats' in this world. It is true that men r uncomfortable around women who are high achievers. This might have something to do with evolution, as also with the cultural environment in which they grow.
Theory of evolution also suggests that fortune favors the hero /ine. It definitely does not help if wo /men started giving in to pressure and meekly accepted other sides victory. Ofcourse, it does not have to be either side's victory. Co-existence is the ideal outcome.
Katmandude, I too have seen Nepali men treat their wives with respect. If both r intellectually equal it becomes hard to dominate the other half. Could it be that the Girls here in US (talking in general)have a misconception of the whole issue due to some prejudice?
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 07:54 PM
Dear Bhedo ji,
A marriage proposal...well, you do flatter me! I am as young/old as you want me to be!
But thank you for asking! :)
As for marriage, please give me your definition of marriage...does it match mine? ;)
Thank you though!
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 08:06 PM
Hmm, my definition of marriage.....actally, I'll let you define it. I'll let you write the prenuptial agreement....I'll just sign it without even reading it.....wouldn't that make you happy????
However, there is a catch. One of the pacts must be a no-divorce policy. Once you get caught in the web, you can't escape. Whatever or whoever we face, we face it together. That's all.
You can be certain that I'll treat you like a princess. I'll be your slave, and I'll try to satisfy every demand of yours.
Oh, and I got hariyo patta, hehehe :D.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 30-Sep-02 11:02 PM
Told myself I would not touch this with a ten foot pole, but as always I cannot seem to keep away!! :)
Sitara: yes this seems to be an article written with not much depth, but c'mon! What up with this Bhedo guy?
Bhedo:
"Remember these women's names, people! They are bona fide S-L-U-T-S (or bhalus, as we like to call them) by Nepali standards;"
Woahhh! Say, what qualifies for a "SLUT" according to "Nepali Standards"? Is there like a guideline/a criteria sheet that I missed out reading?
"They go to sucky third tier schools and aren't even able to score passing grades in introductory courses, much less graduate."
Ahem! Didn't I just read that one of the women actually has a pretty decent job with Motorola? She must have graduated! And who cares if she went to a "third tier" school (whatever the crap that means). Did YOU go to an Ivy League school? If you did, well... uhh... sorry. And how many Nepali men who are in the states actually go to a first or even second tier school much less an Ivy League school? And even if they do go there, does that mean they are inherently better, smatter, kinder, gentler? NOT!! "Educated" men AND women can be just as stupid, immoral, cruel and dumb as anyone else.
"Feminists suck! I hope these women end up marrying men with penchant for homosexuality and cross-dressing."
hehe. If this were not so pathetic and funny, I would puke! I am a feminist!! And very very proud to be one too!! If you have to side with Pat Robertson to denigrate me, well more power to ya!!
"Don't get ensnared by women at the bottom who root for equality!"
There you go, men... find doormats to adorn your doorsteps, women who will lie down for you to wipe your shoes on, women who have the "proper moral values," whatever that means, because it seems being independence and voicing ones opinions as these girls (however immature and biased by youth) have done is equal to being immoral and having no "breeding" (by the way, is it about pedegree now?).
God!!
Whatever the age of these girls interviewed, wherever they went to school, you can't say they don't speak for a lot of Nepali women who want independence, freedom and the right to self-determination. Does not mean these women don't want family and community. Just that they seek reciprocity, respect and a willingness to negotiate how they live and breath.
I know many Nepali men who are wonderful husbands, fathers, brothers and friends, just like other men from around the world. I have seen an equal number of bigoted, narrowminded and dull men who might not beat their women, but kill them slowly with their callosness and casual cruelties. Nepali and otherwise!
Please. You can't say though that being female in an average Nepali household is easy, hai! Of course all marriages are fraught with their own challenges, their uniqueness and cultural implications, but the social pressures that come with Nepali marriages are not easy burdens to bear. Be a little sensitive here, men, and maybe reflect a little deeper into what these youg women seem to be saying on the surface. YOU might be open minded, but marriage in Nepali families often seems to mean you marry the bloody clan!
I mean, c'mon. Only this week Nepal passed the women's rights bill!! What does that say to you about the status of women in our country? That was legal rights of women.... it took this long! How long will it take to change the millinias of sexism and mysogyny in our cutural and social institutions.
Anyway...
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 11:33 AM
Anepalikt....hehe!!!! I knew it was you!!!
Save your breath...requires will power!!! ;)
Bhedo ji.....very nice proposition...really!! Almost accepted it. ;)
tyo Divorce ko clause ley chaini maryo..... what if you and I fall out of love ni???
:( we are all entitled to our freedom hoina ra?
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 12:00 PM
Sitara :)
"Will power" koon chari ko nam ho? Hehe
I am basically fatalistic anyhow.... no free will, kya!
I guess I should be happy that at least you did not tell me I was hysterical!!
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 12:04 PM
Post natal hormonal rage ta hoina???
chora re??? Congratulations, sweety!!!! :) wish you and yours all the best!
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 12:15 PM
Dang, girl! You are harsh!!
But hormonal ta hormonal... arkai hormonal hola. I think I be hanging around you and SimpleGal too much these days. Maybe my hormonal wave length is simply trying to synchronize with yours. :P
Be nice, natra mero chora lagai dinchu timro pachi!! He is Mr.Alpha Male, remember!! You won't be able to shake HIM off that easily. :)
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 12:20 PM
Your chora is welcome in my class...the problem is I might just spoil him plain rotten!!!!
Hormonal..huh...is it that time? :P
According to the article, aren't all Nepali men alpha males???? ;)
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 12:40 PM
Awwwwweee! melt my mommy heart... unless I remember that you teach kids with special needs! :( Now that would not be nice. Regardless... kids can always use some special attention. So a little spoiling is always good:)
About that time of the month... I'm just talkng my cues from you, girl!:0
"Aren't all Nepali men alpha males?" haha I'll let the men respond.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 02:32 PM
I teach special needs kids too!!!!! Inclusion!!!
also, TAG kids......Talented and Gifted kids!!!
:)
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| Sangey |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 03:13 PM
I could not help but get disgusted with Smriti Dhungel Gyawali's article. Mind you, not because of the statements those girls made - it's wonderful that they want to be independent (even feminist), heck, more power to them, whose father what vitamin, eh? What I was disgusted with was the very poor quality of journalism (if one can call it journalism) that I saw here in this article.
First, Gyawali has posted views of only teen-age or early twentys girls. I see no balance there. What do women in other age brackets think? What are the opinions of the married Nepali women with successful professional career? Hey, you know, there are quite a few of them in this very US of A. What do men think? How do parents see this subject matter as? If one is to analyze a socialogical issue for publication in a national daily, c'mon, at least do an honest job and analyze it well. Gyawali has dished out one sophomoric excuse of an article here.
Second, she has to do something about her writing. Since her article gets published in the Post, I am assuming she is a professional writer. But for God's sake, can we see better sentence structure? I have read better papers written by 10th graders in Kathmandu. Smriti Gyawali, please do us all a huge favor and enroll yourself back in English 101, PLEASE.
Third, let's see some citation. These numbers she has whipped out, seems like they are from her rear-behind. Which NRB report shows the statistics of Nepalis leaving for abroad? What ANA publishing showed 40 percent of the students enrolled were female? Just because these institutional names are dropped, are we the readers supposed to presume she has put lot of investigative effort into her work? I say NOT.
I have seen another article by Smriti Gyawali published in Ktm Post few months back. That too was laughably, or should I say pathetically, written. I cannot fathom why the editors of the Kathmandu Post, the most widely read newspaper in Nepal, accept articles from a person with such inferior writing capability.
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| JhismiseBihani |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 03:29 PM
I agree with you Sangey. After reading that article, I find no credibility in the numbers she has cited. More importantly, she definitely needs to work on her writing skills.
Maybe she wrote it for the Wave magazine which targets in teens in Ktm but accidently got printed in Kathmandu Post (which does not necessarily mean that some of the Ktm Post reporters cannot raise their own standards.)
JB
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 04:34 PM
Woman! That's one long article that you dedicated to me. But I did expect that from you. Anyway, I too laughed when I came up with the following sentence
"! I hope these women end up marrying men with penchant for homosexuality and cross-dressing"
Good to know that I made someone laugh.
So, ready to dump your husband and marry me anepalikt?
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| Naresh_karki |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 04:48 PM
This article creats confusion to the people who read this artilce back in Nepal.
As sanglyji told, this is not well researched article and doesnt reflect entire Nepali girls who live in States. I hope Kathmandu post will not publish such kind of article in future.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 05:50 PM
It was pretty funny, Bhedo. But if I dumped my husband it would not be for you or anyone else. And if I were you, I would stay clear of my marriage, my husband and especially, my son. :)
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 06:03 PM
All right, all right! I'm backing off. BTW, how old is your son? Alpha male huh? Could become a world leader..who knows...let's hope he doesn't develop into another Bill Clinton...
and how old are you? Don't give me that "You don't ask a woman's age" crap....I genuinely wanna know....
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 06:14 PM
Bill Clinton is a sleeeeeze bag!! Alpha male? I think I am gonna hurl!
I am old, admitted an old crotchety woman:)
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 06:17 PM
Bhedo..ji
Thou art fickle!! :(
Anepalikt... we are asking about your spirited age ni! ;)
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| ashu |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 08:47 PM
Sangey,
There you go, with your trademark analytical skills!!
Misuse
abuse, and
gross misinterpretation, not to mention
ignorance of statistics
is rampant in Nepal -- all the more among people who you'd think would know their
basic Stat 101. Often, the assertions one makes in public go unchallenged in Nepal.
And that's something for all of us -- those who care about an appropriate use of stat for pulic debates -- to watch out for, and be vocal about, I guess.
That said, unlike their counterparts at The New York Times or similar publications, the Kathmandu Post ko editors do not -- because of poor resources and because of relatively unenlightened management -- have the access to fact-checking mechanism
of any kind. The editors often have no choice but to believe their (overseas) reporters, even when some of their sentences and facts make you raise your eye-brows.
Then again, I thought -- far from providing insights -- SDG's article merely
reinforced the usual stereotypes middle- to upper-middle class folks in Kathmandu \
seem to have
(maybe by watching too many of those Ekta-Kapoor-made TV serials where "independent" women often come across as those "bad, bad" girls who smoke, swear, lie on satin sheets and change boyfriends the way their change their bras)
about young Nepali women educated and working in the US.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 09:04 PM
Hey, whats wrong with "bad, bad" girls who smoke, swear, lie on satin sheets and change boyfriends the way their change their bras!
haha Ashu... :)
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| ashu |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 09:22 PM
Anepalikt,
Nothing's wrong with "bad, bad" girls.
Just pointing out the sort of easy stereotypes that SDG's article (in tandem with those Zee and Star-Tv serials -- quite popular in Kathmandu) reinforces.
Tetti ho, yaar.
As for my personal preference, ahem, I like to side with that original
Bad Girl -- Mae West.
As West herself famously put it in that movie called "I'm no angel":
"When I'm good I'm very
good, but when I'm bad I'm better."
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| 242 |
Posted
on 01-Oct-02 10:12 PM
Sitara, dear, "quickie" is a quick one, this writer albeit unbalanced in writeup demonstrates targeted enunciations- a 'longie' in that. Haina ra?
The data re:ana is correct.
The fact of the matter is, it has caught our attention and has initiated a discussion. What more can you ask of your article- if you were a journalist.
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| Poonte |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 08:19 AM
I think KTM Post also suffers from a lack of good articles in English, and is sometimes compelled to resort to whatever they get in order to fill up the space.
Just a thought...
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| Sangey |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 11:00 AM
Indeed, Poonte, is it not sad that the #1 English Daily of Nepal has to resort to whatever they get in order to fill up the space?
242 mentioned that the data regarding ANA is correct. How so? I went to their website and, for the life of me, could not find any statistics listed. So where are all these studies being hidden? If these numbers do exist, wouldn't they be published in proper manner for all those concerned to see? Data such as these is incredibly helpful in solidifying our Nepali Identity here in North America and solidifying Nepali Identity is one of the prime directives of ANA, if I am not mistaken.
242 further asserted, "The fact of the matter is, it has caught our attention and has initiated a discussion. What more can you ask of your article- if you were a journalist." Sir/Ma'am, I would ask for something substantial from a journalist, not some rabble-rousing, immature, ineptly put together sentences. I would ask for a gritty analysis of the changing roles of Nepali women living abroad. I would ask for cogent arguments, which would be pleasant to read even if you don't agree with the author. Now, that is what you would ask from a real journalist, or for that matter, even from a freshman taking English 101.
Let's hear from the woman herself, Smriti Dhungel Gyawali, on this subject. I challenge her to submit a rebuttle here in this public forum. But before doing that, I would encourage her to read some of the articles in Sajha's Kurakani posted by likes of Paschim, Parmendra, Biswo and Ashu, so that she will have samples of fine writings right here amongst ourselves. Nothing personal, I'm just asking for clarification of what she said and why she said so, with valid articulate reasonings that behooves a professional publishing writer.
My name is Sangey and I am tired of "ke garne" low standards we Nepalese consistently subject ourselves to.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 11:12 AM
Thank you Sangey ji,
My opinions exactly!
242 ji...
Just a note from ALL schools of Statistics:
"There are lies, DAMN lies and Statistics!!"
And then there are the Consumers of "THOSE" statistics!!!!
:)
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| 242 |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 08:52 PM
The ‘consumer’ in me accepted when told of the data, did not ask for the stat sheet. I also see immense value in publishing such statistics. The cynic in me saw no motive for ‘lies’.
There is NY Times then there is NY Post. Some find NYT provoking others NYP. I was speaking of the NYP journalist. Have yet to enjoy a Kathmandu Times. I wasn’t looking to get enlightened with that article and I’m satisfied. Agreed it doesn’t have aftertaste to entice much thought.
Don’t know if SDG will respond to these postings but hope she takes it as constructive criticism that they are.
: >
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 08:54 PM
242 ji...
What about the critical thinker in you?
:)
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| 242 |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 09:14 PM
'Critical thinking' neurons were not fired up by the article : )
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 09:18 PM
242 JI
No???????? hehe!
Cute, I must say....hmmmmmmmm definitely endearing, in your confession!!
:)
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| 242 |
Posted
on 02-Oct-02 09:28 PM
sadhubad! wasn't exactly purging though.
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