| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| paramendra | Posted
on 03-Oct-02 12:11 PM
Christianity is an okay religion within the framework of religious diversity. Without that frame, it sucks. Any comments? |
| orion | Posted
on 03-Oct-02 01:28 PM
Provocative. But I think the same holds true for every other religion or ideology. |
| montou | Posted
on 03-Oct-02 05:04 PM
Dear Paramendra, Since you brought up the topic regarding Christianity, I could not resist not replying to it. You may think its bias as I am a Christian. Christianity is much more than just a religion. Its a relationship with Jesus Christ who came to earth and died for our sins. Its a personal relationship with God. I dont want to go in detail as to how I became a Christian and how rotten is my past. But once upon a time I was "spiritually blind" and never thought about God, until the moment when God's Grace came to me and opened up my eyes. I am really thankful to God that He saved my soul and His Grace freed me from the sinful life. I am happy now and have peace of mind because of what Jesus did on the cross. I wish I had a simpler way of saying whats Christianity is all about. I wish I could tell you everything about Jesus Christ and what He did for us. I wish I could make you understand what it means to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Anyways the point is Christianity is not just another religion. Its about a special relatonship with Jesus Christ. I am more than willing to answer if ther are any queries regading Jesus Christ. By His Grace, Montou P.S. NO JESUS , NO PEACE, KNOW JESUS , KNOW PEACE!!! |
| Desh_Bhakta_Bhattarai | Posted
on 03-Oct-02 05:10 PM
Guys!Guys! Guys! Don't bring religion to sajha.com! Thats propaganda. I believe that there should be no comments on any one's religion! Live and Let Live ~DBB |
| paramendra | Posted
on 03-Oct-02 06:14 PM
Montou. Thanks for sharing your heartfelt words. I am happy for your spiritual experience. And it would be beautiful if more people similarly talked about their spirituality. But I was just banging on the old drum of religious diversity/freedom of religion/separation of church and state. Just curious though, no disrespect intended, have you had a chance to share your experiences with those from other faiths who have similarly found "peace?" |
| montou | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 01:49 PM
Dear Paramendra, Thank you for the reply. Yes I have shared my faith with people with different faith. In the first place I have shared that with my own family and closet friends. But none have accepted Christ so far. And its not upto me to change their minds. All I can do is to tell them the TRUTH and God will work in their hearts. Finally its upto the Lord who will change their minds. But I do pray everyday for all those who dont know the Lord. By His Grace, Montou |
| paramendra | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 04:57 PM
Montou: It is trickier than that, I believe. Almost a chicken-egg situation. (1) Many hard core Christians believe if you don't accept Jesus, you go to hell. If that applies only to Christians, fine -- all that talk of revival, and rededicating oneself to Christ. But once you try to fling that net on all humanity problems arise. So non-Christians go to hell? (2) Many hard core believe non-Muslims go to hell? (3) Which hell are the two groups referring to? Two different hells? (4) What for a Buddhist like me who does not believe in heaven/hell? Solution: A political/religious/spiritual acceptance of religious diversity. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 04:58 PM
Sorry. Typo. Is: (2) Many hard core believe non-Muslims go to hell? Should be: (2) Many hard core Muslims believe non-Muslims go to hell. |
| Montou | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 08:25 PM
Dear Paramendra, As a Christian I have to believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. But its a really disturbing thought to say that all non-Christians go to Hell. I personally dont want to believe that. Its a scary thought that even my family members and closet friends not making it to Heaven with me. So even being a PAKKA Christian its hard for me to accept the fact that non-Christians go to Hell. I believe they neither go to Heaven nor Hell, unlike Christians who will make it upto Heaven. By His Grace, Montou P.S. I have really thought about this issue alot |
| Tropical | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 09:16 PM
Dear Montou (mootu!) If people like you are in heaven, then who goes to hell LOL! Democratic Hinduism |
| Montou | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:49 AM
Dear Tropical, I hope there is no Hell. Personally I think nobody deserves to go to Hell. By His Grace, Montou |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:35 PM
"I believe they neither go to Heaven nor Hell, unlike Christians who will make it upto Heaven." Will the Muslims make it to heaven, as they say they will? What about the Hindus who say the same? Is that a shared heaven, or different heavens? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:45 PM
montou, then where will we end up? are you also an isolated freak like me undergoing treatment from Dr Pagal Bahula at lagankhel aspatal? montou, here's a thought: why don'ty you convert back to whatever you were before so that you can join/or take your family members with you in heaven. a heavenly family reunion. |
| Montou | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:57 PM
Dear Paramendra, Your question is very good one. I also think about the same a lot. One of us has to be right. There cannot be Heaven for all of us. So who is right? I don't know. Let me pray about this and learn more so that I can get back to you. By His Grace, Montou |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:00 PM
Montou: My thought on your vexation: all of them are right. "Heaven" is a spiritual concept. The Christians employ it, the Muslims do, the Hindus employ it. The Buddhists don't. We don't believe in heaven or hell. The closest concept to that we have is one of "nirvana." Heaven is not a section of the universe/outer space our "souls" (we Buddhists don't believe in souls either) get transported to. It is a spiritual concept. And so the hardliners in all religions need to chill, and live and let live. Peace. |
| Montou | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:07 PM
Dear Freak, I might be little crazy now but I was insane before I became a Christian. And Freak, I would not trade my present situation for anything. I am happy that I am a Christian though some may think I am a little crazy. As for your question "where will we end up?" , I dont know. All I know is that Jesus is the only way for Eternal Life. I dont know what happens to those who are not Christians. Its hard for me to make you understand about Christianity. But once your Spiritually Blinded eyes are opened and come to know the Lord, the joy can be comapared to none other. So I can pray for you like I have been doing to all my family and friends. So one day God's Grace will come upon you and you will realize what the Lord has done for you. I guess I better stop here. By His Grace, Montou |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:13 PM
The undercurrent of conversions has crept into this thread. A person's freedom to choose one's religion is a basic human right. Montou, if you were a Hindu before, and are now a Christian, and are happily so, all the kudos to you. I don't see you as someone who betrayed the faith, or anything like that. You made your choice. I am not one of those paranoid Nepali Hindus who are alarmed that, gosh, 0.02% (I don't know the figures) of the Nepalis are Christians! They also happen to be high caste. I personally think all the so-called Dalits ought to make the choice to convert en masse into Buddhism or Christianity and take the air out of the caste system. I mean, that whole freaking mentality that even Ivy League educations don't seem to cure, that sense of entitlement. |
| punte | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:17 PM
Montou It's fine to be cristian. your god may bless you. Lord Shiva will bless me.. But don't f***ing try to convert people of other riligion to christianity If you do so you will go to hell |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 05:05 PM
Montou Ji.... Congratulations on your having found your spiritual path way!!! Now if you go beyond King Jame's version of the Bible, you might find additions to the 10 commandmants: 1- Thou shall acknowledge every individual. 2-Thou shall acknowledge the freedom that accompanies every birth. 3-Thou shall acknowledge the freedom of thought, words, deeds of everybeing. 4-Thou shall acknowledge the free will of every individual. 5-Thou shall acknowledge that every birth is a creation of a higher power. 6-Thou shall acknowledge every birth as having a right to navigate its path. 7-Thou shall Not impose thy tunnel vision/s on God's creation. 8-Thou shall Not impose thy biblical rhetorics of King Jame's Bible. 9-Thou shall practise what thou preaches and save thy own soul first. 10-Given these above premises: Thou SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERATION UPON GOD's CREATIONS in any way, shape or Form!!!! In layman terms..."Keep your hands off our cookie jar!" A tip: Jesus Christ was known to have been belonging to the spiritual group of the "Nazarene Sect".... You might want to research this before you cast an eye upon our spiritually blinded eyes. For if you do....you might get "an eye for an eye". Pray, keep to objective reasonings/ philosophies on any great religion such as Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism..........and other "isms" that have been borne and respected by humanity! May the Lord grant you MORE than a Tunnel Vision!!! PEACE!!! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 05:09 PM
Disclaimer: The above 10 commandments have been compiled and paraphrased during the course of her readings in Christianity and Spiritualism!!!! |
| ? | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 05:26 PM
This might not apply to every one but certainly encouraged: I suggest people to read Gita because, I claim to have found my true calling in it. I wont go to specifics of my experience as people can justify their mysticism any way they want but being cautious of not emphasizing it on other. I am of the belief that people have the right to lead their religious life as privately as their sexual life. I do not believe a god is a man or any for that we can symbolize rather the energy, in the most simplest term, ubiqutous in every point of the universe. It/she/he pervades in you and we live in it/she/he. I reject claim of the unmanifest god if you want to discuss about it. |
| Montou | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 05:47 PM
Dear Punte, Dont get so mad man. I was just trying to tell the Truth. Anyways I will be praying for you. By His Grace, Montou |
| Montou | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 05:54 PM
Dear SITARA, Thank you for the info that I was not aware of. Anyways SITARA ever since I came to know the Lord, I have been amazed by what Jesus did for us. And Jesus is all that is in my mind. I am truely convinced about most of the stuff in the Bible. I want people to have hope in the Eternal LIfe in Jesus Christ. And I want people to see that as well. Thats all. If you call that a Tunnel Vision. By His Grace, Montou |
| Desh_Bhakta_Bhattarai | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 07:48 PM
Propaganda! Propaganda! Propaganda! This thread is turning propagandist! ~DBB |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:31 PM
montou, don't pray for me my christian (KRISTAN in nepali) brotha, i am bettr off w/o your prayers. jai jai gorakh , jai jai kali.. jai bhandrakali, jai mankamana, jai tettis karod deuta, Jai christ, jai mary, jai mohammad, jai buddha bhagwaan, jai guru nanak, jai bahai, jai mormon ko joesph dai, jai bijaypur ko buda subba.. see montou, you have to have this attitude. christ, christ matra dherai nabhana..you do yoiur thing, you be happy, and we do our things we are happy...shy are you just hammering christ christ christ on our head, when you clarly know it in your christ-filled head that 90% of the sajha visitors are liberal hindus (of cours, we are all gonna rot i n hell, because we are not christians) but you know what.. given the choice, i would rather go to hell like that woody allen's character in the movie, deconstructing harry.. hell is the place to be, you drink, you smoke.. you can commit more sins... |
| hyaterica | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:44 PM
kya diyeko yaar , IF... a good one after a long time..may you maintain the same spirit! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:14 PM
Isolated Freak ji, May the lord save your wicked soul !!! ;) May the lord save my wicked humor!!;) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:30 PM
amen to that! |
| sally | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 01:28 AM
Montou, This is interesting to me, because I have some relatives as zealous as you. Very good, sincere people--although a headache to be around when they start to sound like robots stuck on a tape loop. It's irritating and off-putting, even if done with the best of intentions, and it alienates those of us whom they consider "unsaved." I think the best way to convert people, since that seems to be your bent, is to lead a happy, peaceful, charitable life that shows the values in which you believe. Remember how Jesus didn't say things directly, but was always using parables? Well, the Christians I've been most impressed with as people seem to abide by the principle of good storytelling: show, not tell. Which effect do you want to have? Do you want people to think, "What a happy, loving person, doing so much good in the world. I'd like to be just like him! I wonder what's his secret? I'd really like to talk to him about this Jesus thing." Or, "What a pain in the butt! That sure must be an awful religion. If I became a Christian, maybe I'd turn into a zombie, too, and spend my time spouting that pre-packaged conversion drivel. So I'd better steer clear of those churches, or I might get infected!" 'Nuff said? |
| Biruwa | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 01:11 PM
Sally, very well said. "Come to my parlor" said the spider to the fly. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 01:30 PM
lol |
| surya | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 04:49 PM
Paramendra: You want to elaborate why you think Christianity sucks? If you think it sucks.... just say it sucks. No need to adds "frame of religious diversity" in there..... that is PC bullshit. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 05:19 PM
Surya. I stand by what I say, the way I say it, not to select phrases from my statement. |
| montou | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 11:37 PM
Dear Sally, Thank you for the response. I do understand what you are getting at, but still its hard for me not to share my faith. I wish I could just keep quiet and be happy for my own salvation. But being a Christian that I am, I am also concerned about other people. It might sound a little weird but thats who I am. I dont care what the people say but am going to reach out to as many people as I can. I am here to convey the message and rest is upto the people. I know that people make fun of what I am doing but that is expected. It seems foolishness to people. Being a Christian is not easy. There are lots of hardships involved along with the peace that you get. Its really hard to live in the world and yet not be a part of it. I totally understand you, Sally, when you said the best way to convert people. I tell you one thing that if you were in my situation you would not want to keep quiet as well. If you had received the Lord's Amazing Grace, you would not just keep quiet with your new found Faith. If you were given a new life and forgiven of your past, you would not want to not obey the Lord. You would not just keep quiet if you realize how much the Lord has done for you. Anyways I better stop here. By His Grace, Montou |
| hyaterica | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 11:47 PM
>>I am here to convey the message and rest is upto the people. >> >> rest is upto the people. Isn't your own thinking clear to you, montou? If rest is upto the people, why bother resorting to their thinking? Why? If only christians understood..." I am here to convey the message and rest is upto the people." |
| montou | Posted
on 07-Oct-02 12:09 AM
Dear hyaterica, I really did not understand what your point was. All I meant to say was that I am going to convey the message but it all depends on the people how they react to it. Some people may be receptive to the message whereas others just reject it. May be it would be more reasonable to say that "I am here to convey the message and rest is upto the Lord." By His Grace, Montou |
| hyaterica | Posted
on 07-Oct-02 12:22 AM
Paramendra wrote : >>>I personally think all the so-called Dalits [all dalits are, needless to say, hindus] ought to make the choice to convert en masse into Buddhism or Christianity and take the air out of the caste system. I am giving you a chance to call me one of those paranoid Hindus. Had you ever tried [ I assume you were a so-called Dalit Hindu before converting into a Buddhist],for the person you are, your effort in converting people's[Hindu themselves'] mentality about dalits would have borne more fruit than your call to *convert them en masse* into Buddhism or Christianity and take the air out of the caste system. It was your choice. But your above call is pretty losing. And with this call inside you, you expect people to accept you as their leader in future :-) Talk about mentality. |
| hyaterica | Posted
on 07-Oct-02 02:23 AM
yo, neglect these four words..." had you ever tried"... I was gonna write something else..and somehow i ended up writing reconstructing the lines with looking back... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 20-Oct-02 02:14 PM
(1) I feel the conversation with Montou is not over. Montou, I would like to know how much you know of other faiths, and what you think of them. (2) As for the line about Dalits becoming Christians and Buddhists, that is not my original thinking. That is Dr. Ambedkar's idea. And I see his point. If you disagree with what he is saying, what is your "solution" to the prevalent casteism? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 20-Oct-02 02:15 PM
Also, another similar topic: English is not a language to me. I might as well be writing code in one of the computer languages. Comments? Thoughts? |
| Montou | Posted
on 20-Oct-02 08:39 PM
Dear Paramendra dai, I thought that this thread had disappeard. Thank you for bringing it up again. As for me, I am all convinced about what Jesus Christ did when He was on earth 2000 years ago. I so admit that once I was a chief of sinners and now I have repented of that and have a new life in Christ Jesus. It was God's Grace that came to me and forgave me of my past. And only in Christianity, I believe, it talks about God's Grace. And as for knowing other Faiths, I have not been able to read the holy books of other Faiths. And I have to admit that I am kinda slacking off in that. But I do not agree with what Hindus worship. I mean Hindus worship things that were creared by God, like sun, cows. In Biblical terms they are worshipping idols and thats not right. About Buddhism, I just know that Buddha was a great man but He is not God. Jesus died and rose again but Buddha did not. We can admire Buddha for what he did and that was real exceptional but he cannot be worshipped in place of God. I being a Christian, do not agree with most of the Christians. There is a difference being a Christian. Its a life of relationship with Jesus Christ. There is much to Christianity than just saying one is a Christian. Many Christians do not practice Christianity. They come to church once a week on Sunday and thats about it for them to claim themselves to be Christians. And because of these "Hypocrite" Christians there have been very weak witnesses to the rest of the world for Christ. And I am all for the extreme Christianity. If all the Christians who claim to be Christians were "real" Christians, we would have won the whole world for Christ in no time. But thats not the reality and we have to deal with that. This reality just makes me sad but will in no condition lose my Faith in Christ. I will follow Jesus till the end. I am doing it not because somebody pointed a gun at my head but because of what God did for me. Another big thing in Christianity is the many denominations. I totally do not agree with that either and have been thinking about it since I became a Christian that is last year. The division of churches goes back into about 1500. So there is about 500 years of history into that. Its not a simple task by any means to get these all churches together. But I really want to work towards the unity of these churches. I know it seems impossible but with God there is nothing impossible. If its God's will it will happen in His timing. If I live for about 60 years then I have roughly 35 years to work towards my VISION. We will see. I just have to pray a lot and seek His guidance. If its His will, He will guide me where I need to be. I guess this is it for now. By His Grace, Montou |
| Soleil | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 07:49 AM
Jesus Bhai...gothane Gurung....katti halla gari ra bhanya? Timro Heshu le timilai maya nagare ni ma maya garchhu bhayena? The very basic ideology your Heshu forgot to mention that you can never win an argument. :) Jesus Bhai, if you are happy, that's fine with us with whatever doctrine you believe in, but DO NOT BOTHER others with your whining. Let others live in peace as well, if you so much believe in thy GOD, and believe GOD created humans. I can clearly see that others speaking their beliefs and perspectives bothers you, and you get into an argument. Jesus Bhai, it goes for others too. So, STOP preaching and start being content. The isms doesn't matter, its the conscience that matters. Peace!! |
| chipledhunga | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 08:47 AM
Montou, it was only after chatting with you yesterday that I took a peek in this thread. I am not going to object or comment on whatever prompted you to convert into Christianity, and whatever doctrines you believe in. Tara aru lai yesari convert garauna khojne kisim le chahi post garna bhaena. Let people follow their own beliefs. Respect others religions and cultures. This is what I learned as a graduate of a Christian college. |
| Paani | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 09:39 AM
Lot of free thinking hypocrites on this thread. Want to see double standard within our own community ...here it is in black and white. Shame Shame Shame..Your education, your degree all... Phoootta jhyal bata bahira |
| NK | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 09:40 AM
If you are an old timer sajha reader as I am, you probably knowh what I mean when I say every topic is recycled eventually. Take this talk on Christianity thread for instance. People have talked to death (of course not literally, thank God! ;)we don't live in the era of 'Crusade'. Hello Montou, you there??) again and again and again about this topic. I was holding back for this long, but today I caved in. Maybe it is the trauma of losing my voice [do not fret dear reader, it is just temporary :)...] Montou you said something intriguing or startling depending on readers. You said, "Jesus died and rose again but Buddha did not. We can admire Buddha for what he did and that was real exceptional but he cannot be worshipped in place of God." So the whole basis of your faith is because Jesus came back to life (resurrection, I guess you Christians call it)? Interesting. Is that why as a true christian, you have to believe in 'Miracles?' An unexplainable fact that people profess experiencing. Other people mght think those miracle seers are crackpots but for Christians they are true believers. Hmmm... I am trying to understand. Interesting. So to believe in God you have to believe in miracles. For you no miracle no God. And of course you believe in a single God therefore other non-believers are in need for "saving." So far so good, but do you see something is terribly wrong with this line of thought? Because only Jesus came back from God therefore he is the God, and because he is The God others are imposters. Buddha, Ram, Sita, Krishna, Indra et. al You may talk about being kind and humane and tolerant BUT these attributes are secondary in your religion. The most important thing in your religion is to identify who this God is and pledge allegiance to this God. Therefore, the zeal to convert other "non-believers" and "save" them disregarding what actually their faith is, what actually they believe in, how humane they are, how tolerant they are, how acceptence they are of other people's shortcomings. Do you see blood bath coming? Now compare this to what Buddha says and what a true buddhist is expected to do. Read what Krishna Murthi says. Do you know why Zen Buddhists say, "kill the teacher?" Think about it and come back to me. we can have nice dialogue over virtual cafe au latte'. Montou think about it what is |
| NK | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 09:48 AM
Please read, "Because only Jesus came back from death...."instead of "from God." And, I got no idea why that very last line is there! Some renegade sentence I guess. Rebel without a beginning or an ending! :) |
| Deep | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 10:13 AM
NK, What are you talking about? The best line that I found in your comment was the very last line.."Montou think about it what is". I guess you forgot to add few dots after "what is". Kaso? kya darshaink chha "Montou think about it what is" ke ko rebel hunthyo? |
| NK | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 10:26 AM
Deep, Now that you mentioned it I see what I was trying to say! Yes, yes put those dots :)) It does make perfect sentence. How quintesential NK :)! |
| Biruwa | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 10:50 AM
Mr. Montou, You say Buddha died. My religion does not believe so! So please know about what you are speaking, specially if you are talking about other religions for which you clearly don't have any respect or regard! Another things is that "jesus was the son of God" not god as you proclaim !!!!!!! Thus you even do not know your adopted religion. But I can understand that since it has only been a year since you shifted your religious thinking. Also Hindus or believers in Sanatan Dharma worship Sun, Cow as gods or demigods. Apparently you do not believe in that. That does not make it any more right or wrong for us. We have our own belief system which is in contradiction to yours. You say "they are worshipping idols and thats not right." What gives you the right to say whether we are right or not?? Do you want to start a new crusade to rid the world of non-believers? Your thought process suggests so. Again let me repeat: "come to my parlor." |
| Biruwa | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 10:50 AM
said the spider to the fly. |
| koko | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 12:27 PM
Mountou states: And as for knowing other Faiths, I have not been able to read the holy books of other Faiths. And I have to admit that I am kinda slacking off in that. But I do not agree with what Hindus worship. I mean Hindus worship things that were creared by God, like sun, cows. In Biblical terms they are worshipping idols and thats not right. About Buddhism, I just know that Buddha was a great man but He is not God. Jesus died and rose again but Buddha did not. We can admire Buddha for what he did and that was real exceptional but he cannot be worshipped in place of God. Montou your perception of religion sounds very juvenile and very on the surface. If you talk to any of the true believers of any faith they will vigorously defend themselves. But the question is can you defend your your Bible in terms of logic and reasoning ? No. Same with most religions. You can pick any man of cloth from any religion and they will tell you that theirs is the only way and there is no other. People defending Bible often resort to their most familiar term FAITH when they cannot explain something. Now being a modern Human Being I have to rationalize everything. Now my faith in Bible from the scientific point of veiw would be the same as i would have in Blac Magic or Voodoo. How on earth can I have faith in something that cannot be explained in terms of logic and reasoning ? Its impossible in this modern world. If you look back in the history there are a lot of cultures out there in this world that existed before Jesus that worshipped idols. To them that was their life and culture, there was nothing wrong with them. They did not see any problems with their religion, culture, or society UNTILL the christians came and told them. Its the same way the Moslems look at Christianity as Infidels. Now the point about Jesus coming back from dead. Did you know that the Bible was not written untill after 200yrs after it actually happened ? It was orally transferred for about 100-200 yrs. Now when you tell your story orally words get twisted around. Anyone who has played the whispering game when they were kids knows about this. That the accuracy cannot be trusted when you transfer history orally. So the question of Jesus actually coming back from the dead is still a question. Besides without scientific proof I am sorry to say I DON"T BUY THAT. Then again you are going to tell me I have to have faith...but sorry mate no proof no belief. Now lets get your story straight about Buddha. He never considered himself a god. He is a teacher. I think you should read up on these thing before you start talking Jibberish. He showed the path to reaching Nirvana...No heaven No hell but free from the burdens of LIFE CYCLE. So we are talking about apples and oranges here. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:35 PM
Montou: But I do not agree with what Hindus worship. I mean Hindus worship things that were creared by God, like sun, cows. In Biblical terms they are worshipping idols and thats not right. About Buddhism, I just know that Buddha was a great man but He is not God. Jesus died and rose again but Buddha did not. We can admire Buddha for what he did and that was real exceptional but he cannot be worshipped in place of God. Montou, I must say you are looking at your faith with no regard for religious diversity. Christians talk of the miracle of resurrection, but then Hindus also talk of Hanuman's long jump across the strait into Sri Lanka. Hinduism is a much older religion. It is a monotheistic religion with a rich history and many tributaries, that's all. Look at your own faith. What is your denomination? What do you think of other Christian denominations? What do you think of Mormons? How can you agree or disagree with the fundamentals of Hinduism? Or other religions? Christians' dangle Christ's figures all over. Is that not an "idol?" Muslims prefer empty space. Go check out their mosques. In their worldview, you are the one into idol worship. Christ's resurrection is a Christian "belief." It is not a fact. Each religion is a belief system. To understand a Hindu or a Buddhist, you will have to get into their shoes, instead of looking at them through your prisms. You say Jesus is the son of God. Muslims think that claim blasphemous. Maybe the Christians and the Muslims need to talk! As for Buddha, he is a teacher, he never claimed to be God. The Buddha On God. "He preached that the individual was a product of ignorance and an illusion which were responsible for all the suffering and evil." |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:42 PM
Montou, so what is a Christian? "They come to church once a week on Sunday and thats about it for them to claim themselves to be Christians." "If all the Christians who claim to be Christians were "real" Christians, we would have won the whole world for Christ in no time." "... and they brought syphilis and the Bible..." ".... with a Bible in one hand, and a gun in another...." "...because of what God did for me...." And what was that? "But I really want to work towards the unity of these churches." Do you think that possible? Or do you think the trend is towards the opposite? What were you before you became a Christian? |
| Chaakman | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:48 PM
And who are you to ask these personal questions ? Pry inro other people's business ? If you want make a statement..please do not go around asking personal questions. thank you |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:48 PM
chipledhunga: "This is what I learned as a graduate of a Christian college." Of Institutions And Individuals: Budhanilkantha And Berea |
| BathroomCoffee | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:50 PM
He thinks he is Param Indra, Mein sundar Hoon. |
| Jhinga | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:53 PM
Param Indra ? King of gods ? No wonder he thinks he is Mr. KNOW ET ALL |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:53 PM
BathroomCoffee has posted to the following threads Total Topics: 4 Outputting threads 1 to 4 Subject Originator Posts Last post Christianity paramendra 1 10-21-02 1:50 PM Crisscrossing America On 18 Wheels paramendra 1 10-21-02 1:32 PM POSTERS paramendra 1 10-17-02 2:26 PM Am I getting Americanized? jame bonds 1 10-17-02 10:21 AM This is how Bitchpatroll started. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 01:59 PM
When you present Christianity as the only religion, sh-t happens: (1) The colonialists were full of good intentions to save the world. Save souls. Reclaim the "savages." Be a "civilizing" factor. (2) Slavery was thought to be condoned by the Bible. (2) The apartheid people thought they go their authority from the Bible. (4) There are countless racist groups today who all claim their authority from the Bible. |
| Bitchpatroll | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 02:00 PM
Did someone mention ma name ? Why Mr Minder is talking outta his ass again ? Do I need to get ma whip out again ? Lets be civil and stick to tha topic shall we ? This like a perfect tools for Mr Other people's bidness. Always prying into other people's business. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 02:05 PM
And I also responded to your comment in the Posters thread. :-) |
| Bitchpatroll | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 02:07 PM
are we playing tag team ? |
| Bitchpatroll | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 02:09 PM
I ain't interested .. I only repond to things i want.. And thats how I like to play it. So you can stop Baiting me. I play by ma own rule. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 02:13 PM
Cool beans. |
| P_Rai | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 02:43 PM
Hi all, Is Hinduism the best religion or Christianity or Buddhism? How can you say if you know nothing about any other religion. Isn't that an insult or domination to any other religion followers. Is that truth speaking or your personal ego speaking. How about adopting the best part of every religion and creating your own religion.......for instance smartness from Jews, unity from Muslims, cleverness from Christians, peace from Buddhists etc etc. That might be a good idea for us(Nepalese) in this critical situation when we are always in the receiving end. That might help us to balance out our lives in between eastern world and western world..what do you guys think? |
| bhedo | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 04:59 PM
It really really sickens me how people have tried to turn Hinduism into an Abrahamistic religion by maintaining that Hinduism is actually a monotheistic religion, and not polytheistic. Guess what folks, you guys don't know jack, for that isn't the basis of Hinduism. Rather, reincarnation is the essence of Hinduism. Monotheistic aspects were later incorporated into Hinduism when ancient sages wrote the Upanishads (about 300 BC or so, maybe even later, although the correct date is controversial). It's more correct to say that Hinduism is polytheistic as well as monotheistic, depending on what the person in question believes. The general mass usually don' t see Hinduism as monotheistic. To them, Ganesha is very seperate from, say, Indra. Some "educated" folks who know a great deal tend to feel ashamed of their pagan roots and do anything possible to hide the Truth. Let's face it folks, Hinduism is a culmination of various religions brought to the Indian subcontinent by invading barbarians. The Sun worshippers were Scythians, Indra + Vishnu worshippers were Aryans, Shiva + Kali worshippers were dravidians. Only today do we see a fusion of different "sects" of Hinduism. And why haven't we taken into account all the regional gods out there??? Do not judge Hinduism by comparing it with Abrahamistic religions; the difference is sky and earth. We are totally different. People not brought up with backgrounds in Hinduism tend to focus on the concrete and miss out the abstract. Oh, and majority of Europeans today are atheists. It's only in USA where religion is as strong todays as it was in the past, says my European friend. These are just my random thoughts. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 05:50 PM
Interesting. So is Hinduism a monotheistic or a polytheistic religion? There is talk of a Parameshwar. That one God. It is such an old religion, it is like merging Christianity and the Greek mythology that preceded it. The end product is more like Hinduism, in all its complexities. Over time, differences arise. Look at all the Chrisitian denominations. The Mormons are also people of the Bible, but their outlook is quite different from the other groups. Such divergences are there in Islam, in Buddhism. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 21-Oct-02 06:12 PM
Yeah, I agree with Paramendra, it's like merging Christianity and the ancient Greek religion. I think our beliefs are much more diverse, AND perhaps even more complex than, say, Christianity. "Zero" itself is a philosophy, not just a number, for example. We could say that had we not survived Islamic invasion, we wouldn't have Hinduism anymore. Yet, at the same time, had foreigners not invaded India in ancient times, Hinduism wouldn't exist in today's sense. You might never have gone to a temple or celebrated Hindu festivals, and still you can be a Hindu. I think Hinduism allows for more options and creativities. There are people who believe in godmen, while others perceeve them as phony; there are people who worship snakes, rats, elephants, and there are others who believe that the ultimate power has no defined characteristics. In the end, it all depends on the person, if you ask me. He can choose whatever path he wants to take. He can be a monotheist or a polytheist; a Vaishnavite or a Shaivite, etc, etc. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 22-Oct-02 01:31 PM
I guess this thread has the potential to emerge as a talk on: (1) The politics of religious diversity (2) Inter-Faith Dialogue On (2), a comparison: In the Christian belief system, only humans have souls, plants and animals don't. In the Hindu belief system, all living beings have souls. What are the ramifications? |
| Aludai | Posted
on 23-Oct-02 02:14 PM
Religion and belief in God are two different things. I have studied this quite extensively and I think religion is a kind of system devised by smart people to rule, govern and bring some kind of order in the society.All the religions will tell you to be good and do good.The problem comes with the expansionist policy when one says I am superior to the other. Believing in God is a different things.I believe in God without necessarily beleiving in rituals and for me religions are like rituals. Hinduism is more of a philosophy of our part of the world than a unifying religion.It is compatible with so many different names for God and is therefore very inclusive.It never says that a person who does not believe in a particular God goes to hell.It is an evoling philosophy which tries to define the existence of humanity and the purpose of life. People often point to our caste system as its downside.I believe it to be part of our social evolution rather than Hindu philosophy.As we become more educated, people will be more mobile across the social strata and this will gradually go away.In a sense this exists everywhere.There have been examples of people making slaves of fellow human beings in all society. In summary, I do no not think any particular religion is superior to another.I am happy and satisfied with my religion and my God giving me insights into aspects of human life.It is nice to discuss philosophy, but please don't talk of miracles- I know you are only hoping for one.This never happened and will never happen- this is my belief.You will be a very unhappy person at the end of the day if you try to say that you are superior to others and put so much effort in trying to prove it- you can never do it.Converting someone by giving money or use of force is basically very poor utilisation of your resources. |