| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| VillageVoice | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 05:10 PM
1. Yes, yes, the politicians screwed it up and all that. But it now clear that King Gyandendra always had a dangerous design. You can't justify a coup. That makes him a dictator - much like Musharraf. He is an old man old man in a hurry. 2. Was he reponsible for the Royal Massacre? This development certainly gives credence to the theory. 3. What of the Maoist insurgency and particularly the recent spate of violence after the emergency? Did he engineer them - with a design to instill fears among the population at large and postpone election and then subbert the consitution???????? But more importantly WHAT NEXT? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 06:21 PM
I second you, VV. It is people of Nepal who choose who their PM should be. This is in deed a very sad day for our democracy. More later. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 06:42 PM
VV ji and Biswo ji; I fear for our country! This just seems too smooth.... since the massacre.... not one question seems to be answered! :( In KTM when I was last there, there was divided loyalties regarding the throne; apathy was wide spread...people were so disheartened... and now this??? |
| bhedo | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 06:48 PM
"Yes, yes, the politicians screwed it up and all that. But it now clear that King Gyandendra always had a dangerous design. You can't justify a coup. That makes him a dictator - much like Musharraf. He is an old man old man in a hurry. " Coups can be good. Did you know that Saddam Hussein was actually developing his country rapidly before war with Iran broke out? As long as the leader doesn't think retrogressively, dictatorship might be good for miniscule countries like Nepal. Of course, it all depends on the leader and his mentality. However, Gyanendra will not do that, because he probably is thinking of winning over the public. "Was he reponsible for the Royal Massacre? This development certainly gives credence to the theory" Conspiracy theory. You got no proof for this. Gyanendra is a pretty astute politician. He knows that he can win over the general mass if he somehow manages to choose wise politicians. "What of the Maoist insurgency and particularly the recent spate of violence after the emergency? Did he engineer them - with a design to instill fears among the population at large and postpone election and then subbert the consitution???????? " Conspiracy theories are usually wrong. Gyanendra knows how to play the game, but don't make him dumb. He is very shrewd. He is no Birendra. Since the constitution allows the King to act during cases of emergency, he did no harm. Deuba is dumb and incompetent. |
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 06:54 PM
Manche ta bhenda bhayepani kura ta gatilo garcha ( no offense ni pheri) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 06:54 PM
Bhedo ji; You are right....Gyanendra...is very wily and ruthless! A great "political player"!!! worries me all the more!!! |
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 06:56 PM
Sitara! looks like your research project gonna have to wait for your attention. kaso. hami nepalko barema chintit chau. Tapai pani tyestai hunu hundo rahech , Khushi lagyo. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:09 PM
What are you worried about Sitara? That he might round up all maoists and their supporters and torcher them till they die? Hey, I'm all for it, if he opts to lead Nepal, that is. But why will he? Does he want to taint his character even more? BUT stability is the first, right now. End justifies the means. I am actually OK with draconian measures. |
| MP | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:20 PM
Deuba was shocked...........no wonder of the action that has been recently taken by Gyanendra. I am thinking whether we need Gyanendra or not ....??? I have not made any conclusion yet. What do you guys think??????????? Can't we be ruled by any elected president????? Otherwise, there is no difference between Maoists and Gyanendra-s (Gyanendraism)!!!!!!!!! TOOOOOOOO BBBBAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:30 PM
It is a good move by King. Sarbadaliya baithak was big mistake. It was also an unconstitutional move. Its time to jail all the corrupts and CIAA has gotten full mandate. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:35 PM
Here I have to disagree with VV and Biswoji for the most part. No doubt political parties/leaders screwed up big time. Not that I am a blind supporter of king G but VV ji why would you say King had the dangerous design? I think comparision between Musharraf and G is crude. I also don't buy VV's assertion that King G is a dictator. I don't know about the palace incident but I wonder what new proof(strictly related to that unfortunate incident) does VV has to think he (G) may have role in that. Just because VV does not what the king did does not mean G is responsible for every bad thing. Not a factual argument. Now, VV is wondering whether King G is Prachanda's boss. A terribly long stretched imagination, I think. Too harsh comment. And Biswo ji is seconding VV's idea. I can't believe this. Since when PM is elected by the people. People only elect MPs. people have no say on who do they want as their PM. Besides, why forget it is Girija who initiated this chaos. If he had not been so cruel with Deuba this situation could've been avoided. And Deuba? what does he know about the Constitution? How much does he know? What did he want more than a year postponment for? It was Deuba who was trying to violate the Constitution. King couldn't have restored the parliament after the Supreme Court's ruling. Deuba had no constitutional right to stay on power after six months. He should have gone with the original plan and should've held at least first phase election. If things developed rough then he could make a reasonable argument for the postponment of the election. As someone said in another thread, when Political leaders/parties violate the Constitution that's OK but when king tries to enforce the Constitution that is a consipracy against the democracy. Give me a break! as if the democracy is protected by everybody but the king! |
| Eternal | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:42 PM
** Give PEACE a Chance!!! I have been in the US for almost 5 yrs, and ever heard any good news about Nepal. Knowing that Gyanendra took control of power.. made my day! I'm glad for Nepal. I'm neither against democracy, nor favoring the king. I'm pretty sure like myself, every Nepalese around the globe want Peace, & Stability in the country at any cost. We have seen corruption, terrorism, poverty... while we had so called DEMOCRACY. If king is able to wipe out all these bad patches, and restore the Peaceful image of Nepal... every Nepalese are ready to pay any price, no matter it is democrary or freedom. What you folks have to say about this? |
| Desh_Bhakta_Bhattarai | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:48 PM
I had written a long article about democracy in Nepal, but nobody bothered to look at it and the worst part is -- nobody commented on it! It took me two non-stop hours to write the article, and what was the number of people who read the article? Two. Yes, two -- one was good old Mr.Biruwa, next was Mr."Neither Mathematic nor reality", the next was Mr.fRank and the it was me, myself! I guess my article was too mechanical, and therefore nobody bothered to look at it! In that article, I had written about the birth of democracy in Nepal, its ten years of survival, the Panchayat "Kaal" and most important of all, the re-birth of democracy. I had also written some comments about the future of democracy. Though I stated it as a question, it is still an important question -- will democracy in Nepal last longer? Here's a paragraph of my article: ...From all this, we can surely infer that Nepal hasn't used its democracy properly. The democracy, which took us 30 years to obtain, has sucked up the country more than the "Panchayat" had done. I fully support democracy, but I come in doubts, will this democracy last longer? Am I right or wrong? ~DBB P.S. You can catch the whole article at : http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=6519 |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:48 PM
King's next move will decide whether Paras will be King of Nepal or not. King Gyanendra is not only a old styled seater on Golden Chair, but he was good manager of the hotels and Mahendra Conservation Foundations. He want to get credits from public to raise his son's image up, so that people like him to be King of Nepal for some more generations. All these backgrounds will lead him to rescue Nepal from current chaos. Jay Gyanendra. Ek KingBhakta |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 07:59 PM
Ousted PM Deoba murmurs: "I wanted elections, I had decided to postpone elections because everybody requested me to do so. That is why I decided to defer elections as per the Constitution and according to the wish of all political parties," Deuba further said, adding, "I cannot be removed constitutionally." When he dissolved the parliament, he even did not ask his council of ministers, now he complains that he consulted other leaders. I find peoples very happy. I talked with several peoples over telephone, none of them disliked this move. |
| Nepali Kanchi | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 08:47 PM
This announcement has come when from today, saturday, we have a long week-end, monday being the leave for 'ghatasthapana', the first day of 'dashain' and at a time when the whole nation is in 'dashain' mood. Note Gyanendra also announced Paras as Crown Price during the festive moods of last Dasain. A time when most Nepalis are busy celebrating !! This man is really out to spoil all the fun, isnt he? |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 10:03 PM
kanchi, don't worry. Now, mood is better. Every one is enjoying. Only, those who got tickets in last few elections are unhappy. Additionally, some guys who thought of getting tickets in due time are also unhappy. We commonners are now relieved of those thuggs and corrupts who ruined our life for last 12 years. Who cares their politics from now onwards. Kanchi enjoy gara maiya, enjoy gara. Don't worry much. King gyanendra is good politicians, educated, a good manager, well travelled, well known, the best person in Nepal. Don't worry much, trust him. He is trying to win trust of the people, and trust is the thing we lost in this 12 years of so called crazy Demo-crazy. Take it easy. After night, we will good morning. We are heading towards good morning getting rid of all these burglars. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 10:49 PM
Hi folks, I think the most important question of today is not whether Gyanendra’s step was GOOD or BAD, but whether it was RIGHT or WRONG. The most important legal question of today is not whether one or two dhara of sambidhan can be interpreted as giving the king the power to do this, but whether the spirit of the sambidhan is wounded or not. The essence of 2047 ko sambidhan was supposed to be the sovereign Nepali people. That, in a plain language, means no bastard but Nepali people themselves can dismiss their prime minister. Today is a dark day. Even if things take turn to consolidate democracy in a few days, damage has been done. If nothing much, Gyanendra compromised the aesthetics of the sovereignty of the Nepali people. The most ridiculous part of this dirty drama is the reason given by Gyanendra to sack our prime minister. He says he was dismissing Deuba because he was postponing the election. And he says he too is postponing the election. What a crap logic. And what is this clean image joke. Since when he got the constitutional tool to measure the cleanliness of an image ? It is not his job. We do that ourselves, in the ballot box and in the court. Anyway, my heart is bursting to say so many things. But I don’t know where to start. Anyway, today is a dark day for the spirit we thought we instilled in the nation. But in a different way, it is also a bright light day, bright enough to see that we are keeping a pet tiger at our home. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 11:25 PM
village voice, if i were the on starting this thread, it would ahve been lright because i am an isolated freak, but you , *** scholar using words such as grand design and coup is not right. fisrt of all, this is not a coup. coup is not supported by the constitution but the king's move is supported by three articles of the constitution of the kingdom of nepal, 2047. so, no, this move cannot be termed a coup. grand design and all that, seems like you too have started believing in conspiracy theories. what the king did was actually the need of the time, nothing more. even , if he had reinstated the parliament using article 127, it would have been a sheer violation of the constitution, if he had agreed to deuba's proposal, then too, hat would have been a great blow to the judiciary. so the king had to go with the best of the worst options available to him and it is that simple. here's what major dailies of Nepal had to say about the HISTORICAL royal move: The political parties failed to respect the constitution and what the king did was in full accordance with teh constitution of Nepal. Some newspapers published special editorials in which they all supported the king's move. A well written editorial is of the Himalayan Times. Only, newspaper that published a rather vague editorial was Nepal Samacharpatra. The Front Page of Space Time (nepali) had a commercial that expressed sincere gratitude to the King for his last night's action, published by someone from Morang Byapar Shangh. Village Voice, you have been away for a while, so you haven't witnessed the sudden upsurge of Nepali nationalism among the youths. Raja aau, deesh bachau and hamro raja, hamro desh, pran bhanda pyaro cha are probably the most widely used slogans these days. My only question to you sicne you are into journalism, live reporting and things like that, would you have supported if the King had agreed to postpone the polls? would it have been constitutional? can't the King exercise powers vested on him by the constitution of nepal, rajya-satta ko adhikar, badha adchan fukau prawadhan and sankramankalin prawadhan? would an all-party governmnet have been constitutional? if it was a coup (borrowing your own word) then, wouldn't the king be stating that the constitution of nepal 2047 is not in efefct and wouldn't he have issued a draft constitution (masyauda sambidhan)? do you honestly believe that what the leaders for the last 12-1 years actually abided by the constitution? don't you think, all the major political parties defined the constitution the way they pleasesd for the last 13 years? So, whatever happeend, happened for good. Its not 17 saal, and even it was, i would wholeheartedly supported the King's move. And finally, weren't we better off in the panchayat? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 04-Oct-02 11:39 PM
Sparshaji and others, This is a sad step because it rolls back our achievements of the past. Let's ask this single question: who chooses a prime minister in Nepal? Another question is: If this is going to be precedent, can the dude in Sheshnaag throne dismiss any popular PM and ask for another election in future? If an election on the whim of president or king brought peace and lasting democracy, then how come Gulam Ishaq Khan's frequent moves to dismiss his PMs couldn't make Pakistan a better place? The question is damn simple: Gyanendra alone can't do any good for our nation.It is us, laobaixing (Chinese nice word for commoners), who will build our nation. I am not seconding VVji's implication about murder though, just to make clear. Another thing is : I don't believe any single person. No Girija, No Sher Bdr, No Madhav Nepal, No Gyanendra, No Pratyush Onta, No Ashu, No Swarnim, No Arnico, Nobody. It is system that will save us. It is a group of peole who have credibility and who can be 'elected' in election who can save our nation. It is that simple. And Gyanendra erred a lot, and either he or his descendants will be paying price for this , if he doesn't reverse himself soon. |
| Nepali Kanchi | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:51 AM
I dont know the validity and accuracy of the Himalayan Times, but they report the Maoist response::: Maoists smell conspiracy Himalayan News Service Kathmandu, October 4 The Maoists in a press release issued here today questioned the motive behind the move for an all-party government.They said the move would impede prospects of finding a solution to the crisis through negotiations. "There is no doubt this is yet another conspiracy aimed at scuttling the prospects to end the civil war through a round table conference proposed by us, " said Puspa Kamal Dahal alias Prachanda in the statement while accepting that "the country is facing a very critical situation." The conspiracy to impose elections after dissolving the House of Representatives has been proven unsuccessful with the general people protesting against it. "Instead of seeking an easy and sensible way out by initiating peace talks after reviving the House of Representatives; forming an all-party government to put off the elections is a move by the fascist elements to repeat the history of 1950 and 1960," Dahal said. The Maoist leader also appealed for a political solution to the current crisis. "Our party has been continuously appealing to the political parties, intellectuals and the general public to take necessary steps in overcoming the crisis facing the country." |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:54 AM
biswo what a lame posting. for the people, to the people and by the people is the ideal system but for that you need to have enough ground preparations. i think the chinese system is somwhat autocratic, but i am not so sure and china has been developing, there are hardly any protests etc. then, why, a small third world, povert-rideen country needs democracy and everything. what's the sue of deemocracy and freedom of speech when the leaders don't know what they are talking about. we were better off in panchayat atleast we had a sense of security then. now, biswo, would you be willing to go to rolpa and be a candidate if the elctions are held? would you be willing you to put your head at stake to preserve the syetem that you are advocating? No. its easy to just lambast anyone, but you have to find yourself in their shoes and think 2000000 times before reaching to any conclusion. you care for the system, that's great to know, but what have you contributed to the system in the last 30 days except making lame arguments in public forums. let's face the truth dude. have you, from your side done anything for the betterment of nepal and the nepali people? biswo, ever read the theory of resistance? this theory of aihwa wong (what's the spelling?) and other modern day social anthropologists? it says when an existing syetm is replace by something new, the society in the long run develops a resistance towards the new system and longs to go back to the old system. this is what happened in nepal. panchayat was replacecd by a system alien to nepal, rather say, unfit for nepali conditions and the people slowly started showing their dissatisfaction with the system by using arms and by not abiding by the rules. the system failed. . |
| Nepali Kanchi | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:59 AM
Isolated Freak, Are you trying to say our ocuntry is not fit to be a democratic nation? I think that is quite a strong statement right there, and in long the course of history, 11 years is nothing in order to test the validity/ strength of any one system , dont you think? I am surprised that Nepalis feel that democracy is a failure, and that we should give this up so easily! |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:01 AM
Isolated Freak from Nepal. Paschim also from Nepal. Paschim is completely silence on this thread. IF=Paschim. IF speaks the mood of Kathmandu. For all this mess, following peoples are responsible: 1. Girija : the main culprit. Who never let others occupy PM post. always played tricks to oust him from chair. Its end result of Girija's move. All party goverment was also idea of Girija. Later he dismissed it, when he smelled that Deoba will be head of cabinet, not Girija. The differing opinion on All party meet, was key in dismissing Deoba. 2. Deoba: poor guy who wanted to cling to power by any means. He tried the same trick several times. Guys without background suffer this problem. 3. Madha Kumar Nepal. The worst opposition leader in any democratic country. He never worked as real opposition leader, but his move was always to discredit government and try to find ways to share the power. Dhairya nahunu nai yasko ek thulo mistake. 4. Other ganyamanne party: always confused. Anything is fine type of mentality. 5. Nepali Congress ka 2nd row leaders. Mostly Girija ka chamchas. 6. KPB london janu while problem was expanding like cancer. 7. King's objective is find ways to improve his image, out of this mess. Open room for his son to occcupy the Gaddhi. I am confident that King will form a government from the peoples recommended by Nepali Congress and UML. Do you remember, how King saved himself from the last massacre mess. He appointed Makune in the committee and screwed him up. Was not Makune appointed in the committee, the report would have been burned down and country could have passed through another series of violence. I am watching him from that day, that he is very genious. I am sure at this time too, King will ask Makune to recommend some one from their party to head the cabinet. As always Amale is interested in sharing the govt., Amale will finally send Bamdev (the most cunning man) as their representative. Bamdev will say he will not stand for election, but, will keep a room silently, upon completion of election, he will ask one UML MP to resign and become candidate in the vacant constituency, and got elected. Most possible trick. Well, Girija is idiot, he speaks one thing in one moment and speaks when he leaves the scene. King will use his weakness, and I suspect Girija may be willing to head Cabinet by himself, by sacrificing the candidacy for MP, and using the same trick I thought Bamdev will apply. Our leaders will eat 3 pathi chuk if they smell its free. Its a good chance for them to ride the ladder to get the power. Lets see further developments. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:29 AM
just for the clarification purpose, i am not paschim. paschim is maha bidwan, where as i am an introvert, isolated freak. |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:40 AM
there can be various swaroops or avatars of same person. I ever heard that Big Guys usually move in mass with different avatar so that no one in that mass can notice you. Bollywood stars to Hollywood stars, they adopt this trick enjoy life in various forms. If they don't do it, then they will be trapped like in Open jail. Anyway, your swaroop is not important, nor your name is important as long as you deliver to us. In long run, your avatar matters. |
| goonda | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 06:29 AM
I am wondering why most of the sajha Bidwans are casting their doubt over king Gaynendra’s action, putting up everybody’s own theories about killings and etc. (For those who don’t know is still a mystery, and those who knows are the person that public would not accept to hear from.) For me, I won’t say king Gaynendra a lesser of the evil because I don’t want to be prejudice but definitely, no doubt he is more capable and better as a person and as a leader compared to almost all the neta’s that we have known so far. I admire his calculated steps, a leader indeed!!! And if some says so,if his every action is to ensure that his preceding generation continues the kingship, hopefully he would do something good to win back public support and confidence. |
| goonda | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 06:33 AM
supposed to be Preceding = Succeeding |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:44 AM
Isolated Freak ji, I understand that things were going from bad to worse. I seriously personally don't believe there was ever a true form of democracy that ever took place. The only thing that changed was the word "constitutional" for the monarchy. The principle of democracy is the idea that not a ruler ora a small group, but the people as a whole, determine their own fate and make their own decisions pertaining to matters to common concern. Ideally, every citizen is equally responsible for and influential in making decisions. But democracy has a hard time operating in states with tremendous inequalities of opportunity and freedom. But here is the catch: How can the people express "their" will if they do not have any will or conviction of their own, if they are alienated automatoms, whose tastes, opinions and preferences are puppeteered by bigger machinations. In such a cricumstance suffrage becomes a dream and "democracy" the dream merchant. I fa government can prove that everybody has a right to vote but the votes are not counted honestly, or if the voters are afraid of voting against the governing party, the country is undemoctratic. In a country like ours, "democracy" is/has been a "commodity" with the loudest advertisement and propoganda. How many of the people actually understood the meaning and the actions required of a democratic people? So, I personally feel "democratic" anarchy was allowed to flourish not democracy. Yes, it is definitely the sign of the times that has demanded a change; any kind of change. Gyanendra has very shrewedly stepped in to take over. But do not denounce those who question the motive of a king who came into power from the most vicious bloodshed and massacre of a ruling royal family.The fear is toward the suspicious nature of the person holding the monarchy. Face it the "mysteries" are still not solved....the answers given did/do not tally....only "safe" news was allowed to be broadcasted. In the face of such massive fear and suspicion, the king now steps in to take sole power. Ofcourse the people are afraid for the country and what the implications of this centralization of this power means. This sudden move of power by the king adds another dimension to an already existing intrigue and fear. As long as answers about the massacre are not given to the people, conspiracy theories will rise in abundance. If one can speculate upon the massacre, why can't one specualte upon the events leading to the "coup"? You are asking people not to be critical thinkers but blind followers???????? Come now...isn' t that an underestimation of the intelligence of an educated people? So, VVji started this thread with this title, and Biswo has expressed concern....but guess what as long as the word "murderer" is associated with the crown, people will start threads meant to provoke reason and logic. It has nothing to do with VV ji's being a journalist and therefore how he "should" word the title of the thread. As far as I am concerned we are all a group of Nepali people concerned for the welfare of our country. I have said before, you , sire do come across as informed and educated in matters of Nepalese Law, but do not for even one moment of your informed state of mind disregard the opinions of others less/more informed than yourself. This is yet one other form of democracy we are talking about: "FREEDOM" of SPEECH and EXPRESSION WITHOUT being subjected to unethical scrutiny.... especially within an educated context such as Sajha. So ok you are in Nepal...great!!! Does not mean you have monopoly over the expression of views....So, please bear with those of use seeking answers from our uninformed positions. Also, you apparently know more about the Sajhaites like, VV ji, Paschim ji, Biswo ji....or have taken the trouble to compile whatever composite of them.... please respect their opinions for what they express without referring to their profession..... Now, we are ALL Nepali....seeking information. It would suit you to respect this very basic detail. Thank you!!! Also, thank you for cutting out the Psychobabble and incoherency in your otherwise coherent reasonings! Appreciate that! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:51 AM
Bhedo Ji... Yes, I still denounce anykind of inhuman activities. PERIOD!!! Do you have a problem with that????????? If you do.... here is a suggestion from a Professional Counselor, "DEAL with IT!!!" :) |
| VillageVoice | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:54 AM
Hi all. Tks for the response. A lot has been said here since I posted my message yesterday. And a lot has been said that runs counter to the spirit of my "disturbing questions." That's fine by me. It's a learning process. In hindisight, I admit that I may have gotten a bit carried away last night. And I must confess I knew very little about what had transpired on the ground. My reaction was primarily based, though not entirely, on an e-mail from a friend whose readings of fast unfolding events in Nepal have generally been bang on the target: "THERE'S BEEN A COUP IN NEPAL. KING HAS SACKED PRIME MINISTER AND HAS TAKEN CONTROL." Here I am a day later, or rather after a night of distubred sleep. But I know I am not alone there :) Now without much ado, let't get back to a more important business at hand. While I would scale back some of last night's rhetoric if I were to post the message again, the basic premises of my argument remain unchanged: The question before us now is not who is better - the king or Deuba (and our elected leaders) - "incompetent and dumb", as isoloated freak likes to call the deposed prime minister. But whether the king enjoys (according to the constitution) the discretionary power to dissmiss an elected prime minister. And just as impotantly, whether the king has the luxury even when it's a POPULAR (however does one decide that??) move, going by "the quiet streets of Kathmandu", and "generally suppportive newspapers". If the sweeping rights enjoyed by the American press under the First Amendment, for one, were put to popular vote now, they may not survive a media-wary public. But fortunately for the press, and the US deomocracy at large, the constitution guarantees press freedom. And buoyed by the safety net, UNPOPULAR ideas continue to flourish in the marketplace of ideas. Pretty similar is my argument in questioning the validity of the king's move - regardless of its opopularity. Does the Constitution give him the leeway? Nepe has put the point very well. He writes: "The most important legal question of today is not whether one or two dhara of sambidhan can be interpreted as giving the king the power to do this, but whether the spirit of the sambidhan is wounded or not." I would go a step further, and remove the word "legal". Otherwise it largely conveys my reservations. I couldn't have done a better job. Tks, Nepe :) I agree with you isolated freak that Deuba *is* "incompetent and dumb." (I had said so much the night before the royal takeover in another thread "Kissinger..." where we discussed whether Onta's entry into Nepali politics would make the country a better place). But does that, according to the constitution, offer sufficient ground for dissmissal? Now another important point. (To those who are interested, read my comments in the first thread on the topic started by Ashu, "Deuba replaced", yesterday.) As far as my understanding of the 1990 constitution - modelled on the Westminster system - is concerned, the King does *NOT* enjoy discretionary power. He is only the rubber stamp, much like the British monarch. The constitution was drafted after 30 years of Panchayat, where the king reinged supreme, and the framers of the constitution took great pains to strip him of discretionary authority. I am not arguing here whether that was a wise move or not, but stressing on the spirit embodied in the constitution: THE SOVERIGNTY RESTS ON THE PEOPLE [NOT ON THE KING] - as has been categorically stated in the preamble (?) of the 1990 constitution. Let me add, I am no expert on constitution, and will be closely following the counteragruments here and elsewhere. Have a good weekend. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:58 AM
point noted sitaraji (star). will be more careful in reffering to people. yes, i don't have monopoly over expressing views, but some of the views expressed are so lame that it does not seem to arise from people who are so well-educated, well-versed and who have already left their mark in the cyberspace. Also, i totally agree with you for the most part, except for the one on situation that led to King Gyannedra's accession to the throne. Its not time to give much weight to the conspiracy theories and just face the fact although it sounds the most difficult thing to do at this moment. jai desh, jai naresh. glad to have come arocss you. Sitara, are you willing to be my personal counseler/therapist. I too am in great need of a therapist who would make me come out of isolation, this confinemet in assylum does not rock at all:-( |
| ebony_firefly | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:02 AM
yeah ! nice chance to restore the tarnished image.... |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:04 AM
Village voice, dhara 27 (3) of the constitution of nepal recognizes the king as the symbol of nepali nationality and unity, and gives him rights to use his best judgement in preserving the constitution of nepal. article 127 also says the same. so, the institution of monarchy has been recognized as an entity that can make decisons, so the institution is just not merely a rubber stamp one. there is also another article that gives rights to the king to "Prime minister lai sachet garaune" if, the PM is one dumb stupid like Deuba. yeti ho.. pachi lekhchu la. |
| VillageVoice | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:04 AM
Sitara, tks. Appreciate it. |
| ebony_firefly | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:05 AM
nice chance to restore the tarnished image of monarchy. |
| SOULFREE | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:20 AM
Why doesn't king line 'em politicians and shoot them, and start a Fresh one. The young Lot. Whole world knows what these politicians did in last 10 -12 years, and still we worry about them? KILL 'EM ALL!! Look at the leaders we folllow......... |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:57 AM
Sitara seems to be a beneficiary of the proposed all party government. He is running behind the conspiracy theories.Better take some sleeping pills. No bullshit here @ this moment. :-( FYI, peoples in new road and business community have welcomed the move with Diyo-n-candles. |
| kreep | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 10:07 AM
Ppl are celebrating!! We here are living in hell!! Corruption!! loss of law and order and what not. Now we see a ray of hope. Today the houses are all lighted. It's as if diwali's come days early. A danish whom i met couple of years back said that for a democracy to work properly, 90% of the ppl in the country should be edcuated as well as have enough income for their fooding and lodging. If these are not met then the votes will sold leading to undemocratic elections. What is the use of giving someone an electric vaccumn cleaner when his house doesn't have electricity.You just can't take anybody to a cockpit and ask him to fly!! Mind you, just because you know what democracy is all about, just because you know your rights in democracy doesn't mean all the nepalese know about it .What is the literacy percentage in nepal? (take that into consideration) As far as I can see, democracy has been misused by the manipulative polticians. King used his rights which is vested upon him by the CONSTITUTION and kicked the imcompetent Deuba out.he exercised his rights that's it. So coup is out of question.If you were here you'd know how much ppl have appreciated it. You'd know what so called democracy ( I don't believe it's democracy at all) has given us. Right now I am going to New Road to see the lights!! It's fireworks time!! Jai Nepal |
| KingBhakta | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 10:14 AM
Kreep, inform us, what you observe there. Jai Nepal |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:20 AM
KingBhakta ji... If "Democracy" can be translated into action by, multiparty system and/or monarchy...then I am for it!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for being a benificiery or whatever.... How about "vague" institutions of Humanity, Equality and Grass root level development???? If you can translate this into a multiparty system or a "consititutional" monarchy...then YES I am a SUPER advocate of this system!!!!!!!!! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:28 AM
Isolated Freak Ji; Thank you for your response I appreciate it. You are a smart one....that you are! You do thrive in deliberate/conscious action...!!! ( a compliment...ni! :) And since you asked for my counsel on NOT being in isolation, Here is a professional suggestion: ;) Change your Cyber user name...That way you don't have to live up to its expectations: in "isolation" and/or in "freakishness".... :) Hope it helps!!! :) |
| kreep | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:32 AM
New road is full of diyo nai diyos, so is darbarmarg ason and other places. Ppl are going around with mithais. Ppl sees hope.. I hope these hopes turn into reality. Another news is that Khum Bahadur tried to leave ktm by road but was returned from thankot asking him to stay at ktm for some time. Well let's see what tomorrow beholds for Nepal. Jai Nepal |
| SOULFREE | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:38 AM
What? Khum bahadur was asked to stay at KTM??? GOOOD... Let them stay in kathmandu, and another KOT parva HO JAAYE. Those politicians are no good anyway. We chose them to bring us good. We hoped they would take away our misery. All they did was bring us Misery. KILL 'EM ALL. (sorry folks, just watched RED DRAGON.. i am violent right now) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:44 AM
Soulfree ji... Free your soul.... Free your mind... lest loose your vocabulary!!! and watch your freedom decline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hehe!! :) Hope the movie was good! I like Martial arts movies esp. those that bring in the philosophy of the TAO!!!! :) |
| SOULFREE | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:55 AM
Freed my soul, thats why I am soul free Freed my mind, you could call me mindless Whats vocabulary got to do with soul and mind If you call this a freedom, I'd rather lose my face. Sitaraji and Martial arts? Doesn't go together..... By the way, Red dragon was better than Hannible, but not as good as "silence of the lambs". |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:14 PM
sitaraji thanks much for your advise. here's an update on the situation in nepal: everything calm, people actually went on the streets to support the king's move. india is a bit diplomatic in it's response and in a vaguely diplomatic language has supported the King's action. peopel are actually celebrating the hub of kathmnadu, i.e, newroad, ason and at other places. glad that village voice has realized that its not a coup-de-tat. also glad to know that there are other rajbhakta, deshbhakta nepali expressing their views and updating everyone with the news/rumours they have heard. and glad to have come across sitara rarararararaa, i'll buy you RARA chau-chau in Nepal. |
| DWI | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:39 PM
I am mum founded. Don't know my reaction towards the whole ordeal. I want to support it because: 1. Those corrupt leaders weren't doing anything good anyways. 2. The country desperately needs change I don't want to support it, because: 1. The 1 year stale, Royal coup, is making sense once again. 2. Tweaking the constitution and finding its loophole means something bad is coming 3. The situation of the country will be worse. Maoists will be enraged, a bigger civil war in making. 4. We are starting all over again, after B.S. 2017. I still don't know how to react. I just hope for the best..if that is remotely possible. I was also surprised (happily? don't know) by the reaction of citizens of kathmandu. God bless Nepal. |
| Naresh_karki | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:45 PM
Any reaction from Maoist side? This is the most important thing right now. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:48 PM
Hi Isolated Freak and others with dissenting opinion: Yes, people were out in the street supporting G's move. Does that make it a right move? No. Why? Because such 'support' is not verifiable. We had such moves in 2017 too. So much for welcome and Mithaais. If the king thinks street protests gauge popular sentiments, then what about the street protests the day he was made the king? What about the thousands of people who protested against his son and signed a petition? So much for these street protests. Our country is rule of law, not the rule of mob. We are not Mogadishu or Senegal. The king ,if, thinks he has popular support, he has to prove it by getting vote. Otherwise, his roles are simply like to sit down in the palace and receive the ambassadors and take care of his new born gradson. It is that clear. The nation of Nepal is owned by sovereign people of Nepal. Deuba wanted to unconstitutionally extend his term one more year. The king had one simple alternative: to turn it down. Look , just because someone's leg is suffering from gangerine doesn't make that any Ram or Shyam of the town can amputate that leg, it is the doctor who should amputate the leg. Ditto with Shere. I am pretty sure that people would have thrown the Shere like a fly in milk had the elecitons been held on Nov 13. The king has overreached the authrority vested in him by the constitution, either he or his progeny will pay a price for this. No one will ever believe the king in future. Btw, if the election is held soon, may be damage will be less. |
| DWI | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:53 PM
Naresh BBC was reporting that there is an "upsurge in the rebel's attacks." No details. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:55 PM
"A danish whom i met couple of years back said that for a democracy to work properly, 90% of the ppl in the country should be edcuated as well as have enough income for their fooding and lodging." Hogwash. Democracy is needed to provide that eduacation, and that food and lodging! Not the other way round. "Khum Bahadur tried to leave ktm by road but was returned from thankot asking him to stay at ktm for some time." Does the CIAA now need to go after this guy or what? Was he not into harassing the CIAA? "...(sorry folks, just watched RED DRAGON.. i am violent right now) ..." :-) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 12:57 PM
Soulfree ji FREE????????????????? Didn't I just see you lamenting ... about being addicted to Sajha?????????..... :) Words and freedom: -A conscious, deliberate act of FREE choice -A conscious, deliberate act of FREE will power ;) Sitara and martial but ofcourse: :) Martial art was started for self-defense by the temple monks!!! I have broadcasted on being a ZENNIST and even been denounced/attacked for that....by the so called "liberated openminded view holders"..... But that is what martial arts is about.... THE PUSHING Hands... Use the energy of the provocator to defend oneself!!! :) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:05 PM
Isolated Freak ji..... Ra-Ra-Ra- RASPUTIN?????????? :) To what do I owe such an honor of being bought a RaRa Chow Chow?????????? :) Is that what they use these modern times...as a substitute for : "I'll buy you dinner?" ;) "I'll buy you RaRa chow chow" Or how about "let's grab a RaRa...together, next time you are in town"!!! ;) Thanks anyway! |
| COPY&PASTE | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:08 PM
Naresh Karki ji, Maoist Reaction: KATHMANDU, Oct. 5 — Nepal's Maoist rebels denounced on Saturday a move by King Gyanendra to dismiss the prime minister and assume direct power as ''fascist'' and called for a ''united struggle'' against the move. King Gyanendra shocked the impoverished nation on Friday when he fired Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba and said he was temporarily assuming power. http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters10-05-085415.asp?reg=ASIA |
| kreep | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:44 PM
"Hogwash. Democracy is needed to provide that eduacation, and that food and lodging! Not the other way round." I have doubt on the DEMOCRACY we have in nepal. if this is DEMOCRACY then, I have to say 13 yrs of DEOMOCRACY has proven otherwise. |
| mangal_bazaar | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:44 PM
Is there any chances that King Gaynendra would call or nominate Babu Ram Bhattrai or to handle the situation as he did to Madhav Kumar Nepal during massacre controversy? How would it be like? |
| mangal_bazaar | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 01:49 PM
Is there any chances that the King would summon Babu Ram Bhattrai to handle the present situation of Nepal ? just as he did to Madhav Kumar Nepal during the massacre controversy. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 02:00 PM
KingBhakta Ji... To revisit a small detail: You have forgotten to add "S" on the "HE" Sitara is FEMALE as in SHE!!!!! Thank you...:) |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 02:26 PM
Kreep, what we have had is not-enough-democracy. Not democracy. Don't tell me you liked King Birendra's partyless nautanki better! |
| orion | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:10 PM
Dont be fooled by Gyanendra - the man has alwyas been a critic of democracy. While I hope, like many others on this forum, that he is acting with good intentions, I honestly doubt if he is. If democracy in Nepal is replaced by Royal autocracy, then the problems of the country will worsen. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:15 PM
Sure did love Birendra's "partyless" better. At least we didn't have to face this mess we're facing today. Maoism,higher lvl of corruption, god knows what else. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:17 PM
Bhedo: The corruption has not become worse, just more widespread. I mean, look at all the loot of the royal palace and the panchas. As for Maoism, well, we still have the same army, the same police. What rabbit would Birendra have pulled out of his hat? |
| bhedo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:40 PM
Just more widespread? What do you mean by that? Maoism arose as a byproduct of our ever-burgeoning democracy. Had Birendra been ruling Nepal, there would of course be no maoists, no congress, on communists, no nothing. At least we would have peace. In retrospect, monarchy was much much better. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:42 PM
Bhedo. It blows my mind ........ your support for absolute monarchy does. The country stagnated under King Birendra. |
| ? | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:46 PM
Maybe out of context, and seriously out of topic for this thread: I am sincerely deluded with any form of system. To be short, I think anarchy is the only way out to any solution. Survival is the key and only those fit to survive will run the show. The greater good for the greater mass cannot be achieved perfectly by any means and history is there to prove it. There will always be a few who will predetermine the destiny of the masses. So political systems like monarchy, oligoarchy or democracy for that matter, have failed to live hopes of the masses( or atleast haven't been able to succeed everywhere). The only great experimentation that remains to be, is anarchy, absolute chaos. No rule at all. No coercion, no laws and no common good. On the slighter note, please read an essay called 'The tragedy of commons'. All of a sudden it made a lot of sense to me, and this time much intuitively. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:47 PM
Stagnated? And how? Were there thousands of people dying? Nepal has a plummeting economy right now, am I correct? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:49 PM
The Tragedy of the Commons by Garrett Hardin (1968) What's your point? |
| ? | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:52 PM
The point is, you got an insight( rather incompletely) on what my views were on the various political systems. The essay was just an interesting one, so I suggested fellow readers to read it. Dont be too damn objective all the time. |
| ? | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:54 PM
or go figure, in abbreviated sense. |
| orion | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:57 PM
Maoism is the result of more than just government action in the mid ninetees. Decades of opression and negligence came to the surface because democracy provided the vehicle for grievances to be expressed publicly. It is tragic that the democratic leaders treated these aspirations shabily - but to argue that the monarchy would have prevented the armed struggle is preposterous - it had 30 years to do so and chose not to. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 04:59 PM
Do you think this would have occured if the King were still ruling Nepal? I don't think so. |
| orion | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 05:20 PM
If you mean the Maoist movemnt - yes it very well could have happened if we had direct rule of the King. I mean the poverty and despair that todays Moaists made an issue out of existed long before ganesh man launched the movement for democarcy. I think it would have been worse, because atleast with democracy the state could always make the argument that there was an alternate democractic and inclusive system in place that the Maoists should use to achieve their political goals. If enough military power was applied to force the Maoists to negotiate, I would not be suprised if they eneded up joining the system when thier found their rear ends getting kicked. Without democracy, the Moaists movement may actually have been stronger because the Maoists would ahve sought to give voice to the entire anti-monarchic political forces - and mind you there are many. They would have been the democrats, the socialists, the social justice advocates - everything the Monarchy was not and the situation could have been worse because the only option left would have been to remove the monarchy. The parliamentary system acts as a buffer, a go-between vehicle, between the diverse and often contradictory political streams in politics. Circumventing democracy, can sometimes produce short term gains, but in the long run the monarchy, people and country will suffer badly if the problems of democracy are dealt with by destroying the system itself. My 2 cents .... |
| bhedo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 06:15 PM
I don't think so. Read this: "The political front of the now non-existent communist party of Nepal (Unity Centre) broke into two before the 1994 midterm elections, renouncing parliamentary politics and boycotting elections. One faction of the party headed by Dr. Baburam Bhattarai, now the political front of the underground communist party of Nepal (Maoist) is providing support to the "People's War." " Now, if the king were ruling Nepal, there would of course have been no communist party, and no split of the two distinct branches of communism. Looking at Nepal's state for 10 years, Nepal's democracy has failed us. It's better for us to revert back to the original system, as it was suiting us better. Don't let Nepal turn into another Afghanistan or another Iran. Both these countries faced dire consequences after the Kings were ousted. There are just wayyy too many ethnic groups in Nepal all right, and each ethnic group has nothing in common with the other. Our king has: 1. Oriental blood 2. Pahari blood 3. Indian blood (wasn't Mahendra's mom an Indian? Even if she wasn't, big deal. I know Prithvi Narayan Shah married an Indian) He represents all ethnic groups of Nepal. There is no way we'll have an entity that will represent all factions. It's just impossible. We need the king. He represents everyone. We are in dire need of a tyrant who can ruthlessly get rid of scums in Nepal. We need someone who isn't afraid to kill maoists and their supporters mercilessly. Gyanendra is known for his ruthlessness. This is indeed a good news for Nepal. And Hindus of the Indian subcontinent venerate the King, since he happens to be the ONLY Hindu ruler remaining. BJP, hopefully, will understand. If not, Shiv Sena will. It's time for some serious actions. No more rhetorics. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 06:31 PM
wah wah! Bhedo ji.... Such *educated* argument/s!!!!!!!!!! Truly enlightening on the use of reason, logic, hearsay and prejudice!!!!!! Saanchai ek adbhoot namoona! You surpass Bush; the avenging angel himself. :) |
| bhedo | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 06:50 PM
Sitara, seems to me like you would even have let Al Qaeda walk free. No need to shove your anti-violence bull down our throats. War is a precedent to peace. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:20 PM
sitara, i'll go with the last one. let's grab a pack of rara next time you are in town (of course, a bottle of carlseberg too). i am an isolated freadk, so no job, no money, no honey and really into raj-niti becuase nothing else to do! Biswo, you make strong sentences without any evidencee, you go on and on bashing tghe king, advocating democracy and you seem to have some sort of hatred developed topwards the institution of monarchy. when you are debating, one important factor is to hear what the other party has to say, think and calculate and address yor opponenets, of course without giving in, but, with some respect, and by not making big statements whnich neither you nor anyone can prove. sitara rararaa up for a pack of RaRa eh. manche hunu ta sitara jasto. she knows how to make her point without giving in, and without sounding pretentious. isolated freak salutes you-- your diplomatic skills and your calmness, i wish i had these two qualities. |
| kreep | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 08:50 PM
I would go for anyone who is ready to dictect towards the betterment of nepal. Like I have stated in my previous postings, ppl see ray of hope in the KING. The polticians we have, scares me. Maybe looking from outside it seems wrong, but for those living here it's one move we welcome.Anyways what do we have to loose? Freedom of speech ( did we have it b4 friday?), security (Gundas have become the Netas).shops are looted in the middle of the day. Ppl are getting killed at 12 noon. k bhanney.. it only frustrates me. Beurocracy doesn't work withuot chaplusipan. If this is DEMOCRACY, speaking for myself, I don't WANT IT. And if you go around you'll find helulva lot like me. Just becoz it worked in some places doesn't mean it works everywhere.Just like the way WDB, EMI's policies have been proved wrong in the developing countries. We can't base things on theory, one has to see if it's feasible and practicle. |
| kreep | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:01 PM
by the people, to the people, for the people, !! Is this what we have here in Nepal?? Just like the Ray-Ban sunglasses, Levi's pants, Gap t-shirts, Democracy too is just a LABEL. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:09 PM
Isolated ji.... Its a deal! We'll get rara-ed out!!! but you do bring me to shame sire, with your misplaced compliments!!! Thank you all the same!!! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:37 PM
sitara: i thin k my commpents are right in place and i came to that conclusion after a long calculation. you deserve 3 packs of rara now. anyway, getting back to whoever wrote that we never had freedom of speech and security, dude, i am with you. all we had was party-cracy, where the party leaders were free to do anything, say anything, get CLASS A army secrity, and of course define the constitution the way they deemed fit. we, the people, ended up getting nothing. and now, the King has become the voice of the people, he is doing exactly what we, the sovereign people opf nepal want him to do and we should support the king's move. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 09:44 PM
kreep, the coming anarchy is the book for you. i too believe that democracy does't work everywhere ebcause look at Yugoslavia, Indonesia, African countries who have been "experimenting" with democracy... Democracy has failed miserabley in those aforementioned places/countries. this notion of democracy is destroying the whole world as the Christianity in the medieval times destroyed the local cultures of Europe. World Bank's policies have failed miserabley in poor nations. I agree. World Bank's policies have been to always make poor nations dependant on it. IMF did not bail out Mexico during the financial crisis, nor did WB went to help mexico out.. so, you know who directs the WB, IMP and many donor agencies. alrite, time to get some work done. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Oct-02 11:59 PM
Isolated Freak ji; There are policies and then there are implimentable policies. There are developments and sustainable developments... There are democracies and ideologies... there are doers and the wanna doers... and then there are sceptics !!! like me! ;) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 06-Oct-02 12:38 AM
and there are freaks like me :-) |