| Username |
Post |
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 05:11 AM
HERE you go all of you politically correct people,
The Breaking news
His Majesty King Gyanendra has appointed Lokendra Bahadur Chand as the new Prime Minister of Nepal and Badri Prasad Mandal as Deputy Prime Minister, Radio Nepal said Friday afternoon.
The interim government has 7 full ministers and 2 assistant ministers. Dr. Badri Prasad Shrestha has been appointed Finance Minister, Narendra Bikram Shah Foreign Minister, Dharma Bahadur Thapa as Home Minister, Gorehe Bahadur Khapange as Women Affairs Minister and Dr. Upendra Devkota as Health Minister.
The assistant ministers are Anuradha Koirala and Gopal Dahit.(more details to follow)
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| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 05:20 AM
If this news has already been spread at Sajhapur, I have to say I admire all of you guys' curiosity about Nepalese political situation.
Anyway, Now what? We have a another Raag Singer here appointred by the king to the post where his duties can also include to dance as a puppet.
What is the reaction in the populace? I am going to call my family and will be back with morer news if I get to return in time.
This is my prayer time.
Jay shambhoooooooo!
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 05:28 AM
no reaction whatsoever so far. streets are calm. there are people of clean images. andr narendra bikram shah is probably the best choice for the post of foreign minister, the same can be said to Dr. Upendra Devkota who has been appointed health minister, and if Ambika of dwarika's is our new tourism ministerm, i think the king made a very good choice and got the right people for the right job.
anywya, i don't dance to anybody's tune:-)
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 06:05 AM
Thanks Dhumbasse for the news.
My quick reactions:
1. This is a CLEAN and SAFE choice that is also small. Promise of last week delivered. Good SOCIAL names, largely APOLITICAL. Which leads me to conclude that this is a very WEAK team to negotiate difficult questions of the day like Maoism, Good Governance, and holding elections soonest. The cabinet will put on a smiling face, while the king will continue to run the show from behind.
2. The King was conscious of ethnic (and to a small extent gender) balance. That's good. He is aware that populism counts.
3. Chand is not great, but not bad either. Not great because he is an uncritical Durbar loyalist who will do whatever G says, he doesn't have a strong party base, and is not known for bold leadership (more a status quo person)...but not too bad also because he is relatively clean, has been at the helm during transitions, important things have been coaxed through him such as the 1990 negotiations over democracy itself, is also not a hated politician, but largely sensible and NICE. Also a writer; authored the famous, "The Twelfth Player". Has won Nepal's Nobel for literature, the Madan Puraskar.
4. This team is unlikely to deliver big, or fix burning problems -- but it won't be disastrous also -- The worst fear that the King will resurrect the nasty reactionaries is gone, but by appointing a weak, but nice, team, he REMAINS in charge. An affront to the 1990 Constitution once more. I would have hoped for a stronger PM and DPM, with nice faces like Upendra, Ambika and Anuradha that King G has RIGHTLY picked for social, not political portfolios.
5. I think, we should give this team some time to set the tone. I am not optimistic unconditionally. It will absolutely need the support of political parties to deliver. But if Chand can rise to the occasion, he CAN act as an honest broker, form coalitions and alliances to at least make an honest attempt to solve some problems. But only through wider support from outside the cabinet.
6. I'm happy that G didn't opt for outright disaster; I positively acknowledge the NICENESS in the team, but am only VERY cautiously optimistic about this apolitical team's ability to translate its niceless into real political dividends.
7. A small chapter in history has been written. As a concerned citizen of Nepali affairs, my very best wishes to the new experiment, Mr. Chand, his team, and my parochial loyalties to Upendra Devkota (hope he places a call to his school buddy Baburam in Delhi soonest).
8. The wait is not over. It has just begun.
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| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 07:37 AM
*The worst fear that the King will resurrect the nasty reactionaries is gone, but by appointing a weak, but nice, team, he REMAINS in charge. An affront to the 1990 Constitution once more. I would have hoped for a stronger PM and DPM...*
Am with you there, paschim. Lokendra B. Chand is a nice person but that doesn't really go far, really. In his choice for Prime Minister, King's utmost concern it seems was personal loyalty.
And because Chand is just about the only person (and Badri Mandal to some extent) well versed on raj-kaaj, I fear the Palace could get a free hand. Upendra D. and Badri Shrestha get my vote as "good choice." Narendra B. Shah, another Gyanendra loyalist?
Ambika Shrestha is a tourism entrepreneaur and Anuradha K a social worker - both of relative distinction - but don't really know how they would fare as leaders of a divided nation.
Would like to hear from others. What's dharma b. thapa's background?
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| biku |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 07:47 AM
I can't agree more.
It is obvious that the steering is in the backstage.
However, most of appointed are nice faces and "theoretically" probably the bests in their respective fields. Now, its time to be slightly optimistic and hope for them to deliver in real life. Thinking critically, if even they can't deliver big , who can?
If this is a conspiracy of some sort from King G, then strategically speaking, his __th move (also) looks good indeed.
Not only in the class, it seems that in politics as well Dr Upendra Devkota and Dr Baburam Bhattarai are going to be competitors. In school life though Dr BRB came first and Dr UD second, Dr UD had more leadership skills, it is said. So, now what- remains to be seen
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| kunjan |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 07:58 AM
Lokendra B Chand: Loyalist to Monarchy(?) Country again like in transition period of 2046 saal(but in different context)
Badri Prasad Mandal: Also active in panchayati Politics in the past & became minister, Now Acting Chief of Sadbhawana, Representative of Tarai(?)
Dharma Bahadur Thapa: Former Home Secretary, Former Anchaladhish(Panchayati Prashashak?)
Narendra Bikram Shah: Former Foreign Secretary and Nepal’s representative to the United Nations; Papers write that He is 'Durbar Nikat'
Upendra, Ambika and Anuradha :Good reputation in their field, Yet to see their Political(?) Leadership.
Gore B. Khapangi: Representative of small party? Janajati Group?
Gopal Dahit: Who? Not Heard before
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| Orion |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 08:53 AM
Pluses:
--------
- Relatively clean PM
- Many technocrats.
- Some uncertainty cleared.
- Fresh faces generally tend to bring about new ideas and approaches
- Not too many polarizing figures
Deltas:
---------
- PM is perceived as being too close to the Palace.
- As someone mentioned, given the political standings, or the lack of them, among this group, it is likely that the King will continue to wield tremendous clout.
- The King said nothing about where executive authority lies which leaves the question open to different interpretations and will continue to make him controversial.
- The main parties have been snubbed again - whether one likes it or not between the NC and the UML they captured over 70% of the votes in the last election. Parties representing the largest sections of the populations have been shut out. Perhaps this will change with Cabinet expansion, perhaps not.
- This cabinet by it's very composition is a Kings cabinet and not a people's cabinet. The vehicle that links the government and the people - i.e. parliament - has not been resurrected. The aspirations of the people as expressed in the previous parliament have also not been represented because barring Chand and Mandal, none of the other cabinet members have been elected as representatives ever in their careers. So who is this cabinet accountable to? The King? It cannot be accountable to the people, because it's actions are not subject to scrutiny by the people, as represented by members of their constituencies elected to parliament.
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| ??! |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 09:26 AM
The team is relatively clean, small and not a disastrous one. There is likely expansion in the team by including more members from NC and UML.
Likely scenarios:
1. The moist problem is seen by King G as an venting (outlet) of bad governance. I suppose he is trying to restore the people's faith in governance (not political parties) and slowly isolate causes of moist problem. It seems to me that we won't have election soon. This cabinet will try to hold dialogue to solve moist problem. However, it is less likely that this team will be able to get full confidence from moist. Yet, there are chances.... who knows.... Inclusion of Dr. Devkota in the cabinet could be some positive gesture from the government to Dr. Bhattarai.
2. The king's team is an outcome of well thought plan. There are obviously some well known figures like Dr. Devkota and Anuradha Koirala whom people will readily accept to be their ideal persons in life. Inclusion of Badri Mandal is an effort to capture the Madhesi sentiment (don't blame me as racial, madhesi=madhesh ma basne, not a slur). Similarly, Khapangi's presence in the government could be an effort to segregate Janjati's support to Moists.
Whatever the reasons are, the team is regionally, professionally, minority balanced. However, as Paschim noted, it's still a weak team in itself.
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| chipledhunga |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 10:54 AM
Just a quick comment on the cabinet. PM Chand, with a not so bad image. A small and compact cabinet. Koirala, Shrestha, and Devkota are successful personalities in their respective fields, but how are they going to fare in the political environment with so much responsibility? What about the few others whose names were largely unheard of before? How capable are they of handling their positions?
On another note, wasn't Badri Prasad Mandal a pretty controversial figure while he was a minister during the Panchayat era?
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| bideshi |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 11:19 AM
If there is no conspiracy behind all these,then this cabinet seems ok.Maybe this cabinet will talk with maosists and atleast bring some solution with devkota leading the talks with his childhood buddy.We,as a neplease want peace and prosperous Nepal.So,If this happens(?) then we don't care whoever rules the country.
Infact these so called damn political leaders had exploited the country so much that we were in need of someone to come forward and take responsibility and if G has no plan to take over the country but to stop all those curroption and deteoriating conditions of the country,then we'll welcome that.GOD BLESS NEPAL!!
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| WXW |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 11:58 AM
Why Loke?
1. Did you read today's Bimarsha. Lokendra was acceptable to UML (because UML shared government with Loke before but in Bahudal, they can not blame Loke as Pancha), Kangress also said OK via Bimarsha, RPP have joys, and Sadvawana got their Madhesi BP in DPM post, what else a party with 7 seats could achieve. All parties should be satisfied. No reason or slots to object it, at least for a while.
2. It was reported that Dr. UD has cut throat competiter of Dr. Bhattarai and vice versa. They don't speak face to face. Dr. UD 's parents were locally rich while Dr. Bhattarai's parents were directly or indirectly SOSHIT from Dr. UD's parents.
3. This cabinet is a good prize to honest and dedicated peoples. At least commoners will not join in bandwagon of AMALE or NC, if they start protest from tomorrow. Divide and rule. King had successfully divided the political leaders. Sadvawana party will come up now and it will be a third largest party. Its a big challenge to NC and UML. Both will become representative of Pahadiya Nepalis only, and all Madhesi candidates in NC or UML will loss election. Next government will not have majority of anyone. Thus, whatever achieved until next election will raise King G's image much above, because these parties will again start their rock and roll of corruption once they get position of ministeries and the old formulas of pulling parties to form a government will continue. Nani dekhi lageko bani chuddaina. A long term trick to BADNAM NC and UML. They will always indulge in corruption and King will come to front play his duty depending on demand and go back to the rear row, very frequently. King G will remain center of power, his relevancy will not die.
4. All corrupts will find space in Jail. They have no escape to heaven. CW, GRJ, Khume, Gachhedar, JP Gupta, and Bamdev, too, must be shivering their body. It should not be surprising if Deoba also finds space in jail.
5. Government employees will be tharka man. K hune ho kasto hune ho. they will be working perfectly fine.
6. election of local bodies will be carried out first. it determines whose goverment will be formed next. if they don't do this first, Bamdev like peoples will again misuse the power and do whatever means to capture the local bodies. Local bodies are a place to employee their cadres and allow them to misuse money allocated for local developments. Local bodies had MALE (BAMDEV ) and Bamdev was not in power for last 2.5 years and it is said that all of them went to Maoists because they were not getting anything after Bamdev group lost last election.
7. AMALE's supporters will move to Maoist, and join the Bamdev's supporters and strengthen BRB's CPN.
Dont forget to check Friday news on early Saturday morning in Nepal?. Friday is our King's most favourite day and he knows very well why its called Happy Friday? Cheers with limited reservations.
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| COPY&PASTE |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 12:18 PM
>>Dr. UD 's parents were locally rich while Dr. Bhattarai's parents were directly or indirectly SOSHIT from Dr. UD's parents.
I know cousin of BRB, who wa senior to me in college life of kathmandu. Although they have very closed relationship, his cousin is totally in opposion of BRB's ideology's.
Upendra Devkota; from liglig, Gorakha
Baburam Bhattarai; Khoplang,Gorakha, Their home are in one and half hour distance, both finished SLC from Amar Jyoti Janata Ma. Vi.(operated by UMN, Nepal), Luitel, Gorakha
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| nepaliketo1 |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 01:58 PM
oK Guys if you say lokendra bahadur chan has clean image then anyone can be called so
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| nepaliketo1 |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 02:04 PM
I think Dr.devkota and Mrs.koirala are doing excellent work it their field. Dr. Devkota is the top neurologist. By bringing them into dirty rajnity they won't be able to do work help nepal in there field. Politics in nepal makes people currupt whoever he/she is
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| Parijat phul |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 03:20 PM
Yes, Dr. Devkota is a very well known Neurologist. I think one of two top neurologists in the country. And by the way he is the one who attended to the victims of the royal massacre last year and had also worked on Dipendra. He gave an interview on the royal massacre last year in one of the internet papers, it could very well be Kathmandu post that I saw it in. I wish I could post the link to that interview. But I don't remember the details. If anybody else is aware of it, may be he/she could post it for the rest of the Sajhyites.
I am afraid nepaliketo 1's apprehension about "by bringing them into dirty rajnity they won't be able to do work in Nepal in their fields" might very well come true.
Losing Devkota's skill as a neurologist in Nepal to Nepali politics will be very unfortunate for many patients in Nepal. Having had to seek his medical authority in regards to a very close family member's health, I can tell you how rare it is to find the kind of medical skill that Devkota has.
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| Parijat phul |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 03:35 PM
Sounds like with people like Devkota, Koirala (two I am most aware of), this cabinet seems to be more of a technocrats' cabinet. Somehow the way things are unfolding like appointing apolitical, and technocrats to the cabinet, looks like King G is making the same moves as Mussharaff when he first came to power. Somebody in another thread made the same analogy as well.
Can this cabinet really stand up to the King G when time comes? Although "the clean" guys might be on the driver's seat (for the outside world to see), the real guy telling the driver where to drive towards is sitting cozily in the back seat of the big limosine with its shaded windows. Chauffers are mere drivers, they can be replaced anytime, its the owner of the limosine that is there to stay.
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| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 03:53 PM
talking about daktar shahebs, dr. devkota's a solid neurologist, an outstanding suregon. But that doesn't necessarily make him a good mantri, which requires a different set of skills, etc.
for now, i give him the benefit of doubt. i don't see him being "diplomatic," for example, to please palace officials. he can be quite outspoken. ask his patients. but not so much as dr. sundarmani dixit, though :)
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 09:15 PM
parijat ko phul,
dr. devkota is affiliated with Bir Hospital, and now that he is our new swastha mantri, he will work (people are optimistic) to reform and rearrange the sarkari hopsitals. this way, many patients from pahad, tarai, himal who are deprived of good medical care because they just happen to be out of the valley with no money, they will get good medical care.
he might not be a good diplomat, but who cares. Narendra Bikram Shah is a good diplomat, he can deal with issues pertaining to foreign affairs and the maoists.
Anuradha Koirala and Gore bahadur Khapangi can work towards social reforms.
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| iXY |
Posted
on 11-Oct-02 10:41 PM
VV ji kya tapai ta. If Dr. Devkota's classmate Dr. BRB, an architect, could be a political leader what is wrong with Dr. Devkota leading in the same direction. The ultimate destination of all road is to lead peoples. All road leads to rome and all road leads in nepal to singha durbar. Dr. Devkota will rise very fast because of the bonus he gets being classmate of Dr. BRB. Diamond cuts diamond, Dr. Devkota will be great source to those who want to make BRB out of focus in issues related to intelligent technocrat turned to a politician.
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 01:23 AM
If what they wrote above is all, I am sorry to say I am not impressed by the reactions of Paschim and Village Voice to this breaking news. As I said the same thing in another posting too, my dear friends’ postings appear to abandon the Yaxya Prashna of the moment and been tricked by the minor details of the puppet cabinet, or the abaidh santaan of the king G. Without going into detail and perhaps to the delight of some nirlajja king G. ka dhupaure haru in this and many other threads, I just want to share briefly my conviction that yes the experiment (Please note that Gyanendra in his sambodhan called it PRAYOG not ABHYAAS of Prajatantra !!!!) of last twelve years failed. Yes, the parliamentary parties failed. Yes, Deepawali in the rajdhani and mofasal are disparate popular voices. But nobody is bothering to ask why and how it happened. Most of us are mesmerized by the chatak of the king. My dear friends and potential foes, let me put some ignored facts down here.
It is wrong to say the democracy of the past twelve years failed. The correct thing to say is- the semicracy of the past twelve years failed. I have been utterly disappointed by the failure of the Nepali intelligentsia to recognize the satta sharing between the monarch and the parliamentary parties as a reality. In their bid to legitimize the dhat kura of the ‘constitutional monarchy’, they lied (yes yes yes they lied) that people became sovereign and the palace became just ceremonial. Thanks to king G.’s move, asaliyat saamne aa hi gayaa aakhirkaar (Paramendra, thik bhane maile ?).
Democracy brings change. But the semicracy ? The more it tries to change the more same it remains. Proof ? the corruption of the bureaucracy and the politicians. I am particularly bewildered by intelligence of some friends who think that the corruption is the gift of the last twelve years of the so-called democracy (Note that this is the major, actually the only assumption, of dhupaure arguments running these days ). No, it is merely the continuation of the palace sponsored corruption of Panchayat Shiva ratri with some diversification and decentralization to accommodate new players. The inability of the semicracy to break that chain is all about the corruption of today including the political parties. And that inability is nothing but the burden on the shoulder of the parliamentary parties to protect the interest and prestige of the palace. You can not do the thing if you are not given the starting point. And the starting point is the darbar and darbariya- from the account of the Swiss banks of Pampha Devi and her family to every royal sachibs to Jar sahebs to Surya Bahadur Thapas to…you go on. Was the semicracy supposed to do it ? Was it even equipped to do it ? Get real friends. Enough of Prajatantra ko bakbaas.
Now, since the parliamentary parties, in reality, did not have the power and right to cross the threshold to systematically fight the corruption, the only thermodynamically logical (any entropy Guru ?) state they can eventually be in equillibrium is to be compatible with the prevailing environment. That’s exactly what happened to our political parties. They became corrupt. They became corrupt because they were not allowed to destroy the house of corruption- the raj darbar and the chamchaas. It is the greatest joke on the earth that the Nepali king wants to eradicate the corruption by sacking the corrupt political parties who has been protecting him from the dangerous republicans.
Can we hope anything from the kathaputali sarkar of a Panche loyal to the palace ? Yes, the dance choreographed by the shrewd Gyanendra.
(And Isolated Freak, don’t even think to ask me to be mindful to the language I use. I am not polite like Paschim.)
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 01:30 AM
f what they wrote above is all, I am sorry to say I am not impressed by the reactions of Paschim and Village Voice to this breaking news. As I said the same thing in another posting too, my dear friends’ postings appear to abandon the Yaxya Prashna of the moment and been tricked by the minor details of the puppet cabinet, or the abaidh santaan of the king G. Without going into detail and perhaps to the delight of some nirlajja king G. ka dhupaure haru in this and many other threads, I just want to share briefly my conviction that yes the experiment (Please note that Gyanendra in his sambodhan called it PRAYOG not ABHYAAS of Prajatantra !!!!) of last twelve years failed. Yes, the parliamentary parties failed. Yes, Deepawali in the rajdhani and mofasal are disparate popular voices. But nobody is bothering to ask why and how it happened. Most of us are mesmerized by the chatak of the king. My dear friends and potential foes, let me put some ignored facts down here.
It is wrong to say the democracy of the past twelve years failed. The correct thing to say is- the semicracy of the past twelve years failed. I have been utterly disappointed by the failure of the Nepali intelligentsia to recognize the satta sharing between the monarch and the parliamentary parties as a reality. In their bid to legitimize the dhat kura of the ‘constitutional monarchy’, they lied (yes yes yes they lied) that people became sovereign and the palace became just ceremonial. Thanks to king G.’s move, asaliyat saamne aa hi gayaa aakhirkaar (Paramendra, thik bhane maile ?).
Democracy brings change. But the semicracy ? The more it tries to change the more same it remains. Proof ? the corruption of the bureaucracy and the politicians. I am particularly bewildered by intelligence of some friends who think that the corruption is the gift of the last twelve years of the so-called democracy (Note that this is the major, actually the only assumption, of dhupaure arguments running these days ). No, it is merely the continuation of the palace sponsored corruption of Panchayat Shiva ratri with some diversification and decentralization to accommodate new players. The inability of the semicracy to break that chain is all about the corruption of today including the political parties. And that inability is nothing but the burden on the shoulder of the parliamentary parties to protect the interest and prestige of the palace. You can not do the thing if you are not given the starting point. And the starting point is the darbar and darbariya- from the account of the Swiss banks of Pampha Devi and her family to every royal sachibs to Jar sahebs to Surya Bahadur Thapas to…you go on. Was the semicracy supposed to do it ? Was it even equipped to do it ? Get real friends. Enough of Prajatantra ko bakbaas.
Now, since the parliamentary parties, in reality, did not have the power and right to cross the threshold to systematically fight the corruption, the only thermodynamically logical (any entropy Guru ?) state they can eventually be in equillibrium is to be compatible with the prevailing environment. That’s exactly what happened to our political parties. They became corrupt. They became corrupt because they were not allowed to destroy the house of corruption- the raj darbar and the chamchaas. It is the greatest joke on the earth that the Nepali king wants to eradicate the corruption by sacking the corrupt political parties who has been protecting him from the dangerous republicans.
Can we hope anything from the kathaputali sarkar of a Panche loyal to the palace ? Yes, the dance choreographed by the shrewd Gyanendra.
(And Isolated Freak, don’t even think to ask me to be mindful to the language I use. I am not polite like Paschim.)
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| iXY |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 01:45 AM
Nepe ji back. MP, the Chief Editor of Sinking Nepal Daily, catch him before he goes underground again. He is the only outspoken republican in Sajhapur. Scan his computer IP address (internet's XY positions) and interview him for our sake.
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| Satya |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 02:33 AM
Here is another republican!
Thanks Nepe for coining the term “semicracy”. I have posted my view in another forum that the failure of last 12 years is not the failure of democracy. But due to my limited word power my posting is not as convincing as yours.
Phaschim’s quick reaction seems to come in terms with the current real situation. “I'm happy that G didn't opt for outright disaster”. But I am suspicious of the king’s long-term goal.
VV says, “ I fear the Palace could get a free hand.” I say Palace has already got free hand since king Mahendra’s coup. “In his choice for Prime Minister, King's utmost concern it seems was personal loyalty.” What else could we expect?
I agree with biku “If this is a conspiracy of some sort from King G, ..” I prefer the sentence without “of some sort”.
Orion’s comment “The King said nothing about where executive authority lies which leaves the question open to different interpretations and will continue to make him controversial” is very important in present context.
Bideshi says “If there is no conspiracy behind all these, then this cabinet seems ok.” I feel there is already conspiracy.
IXY: I have noted your coordination!
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| kunjan |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 03:04 AM
Interesting Article by Khagendra Sangraula on this topic.
http://kantipuronline.com/kantipur_html/kantipur_news4.htm#1
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 04:39 AM
Nepe-ji, khai ke bhanu?
Dherai mahina aghi yehanlai binti gareko thiyen -- ma baata dherai asha nagarnus bhanera. I have a tendency to disappoint over time. Aba tyehi anumanit kram ko ek bindu maandinus yeslai.
Aakal-jhukkal saath payeko chhu, natra eklai ladi raheku chhu yehan, bidhi ko raaj ko damfu pitdai -- dui chaar jana le bole holaan, tara jamin ko dhulo rajniti ra aam biswa ko aitihashik disha-nirdesh DUBBAI ko aad liyera ma karai rahekai chhu ekdam lonesome para le -- dekhi rakhnu bhayekai chha kasta kasta manchhe baata kasta kasta kisim ka prahaar aaunchhan, eklai khepi raheko chhu. Tara pani gaurab chha, ek inch yeta uta garya chhaina aafno adaan bata.
Aba tapain aaunu hunchha ra bhannu hunchha, timi haru pani bikyau. This is unfair.
Nepe-ji, we have a fundamental difference -- you are a staunch republican, against the monarchy in an absolute way. I'm not, I believe in legally and constitutionally restraining the institution. Like a true republican (and ironically, like your nemesis the monarchists) you also just trashed the 1990 constitution by saying the transfer of sovereignty in 1990 was a sham. Right here, I disagree with you. I think until the late 1990s, before our representatives started losing the moral high ground, monarchists were a defeated force. It is the democrats' follies that has allowed them to resurrect, that almost paved the way for full-blown retrogression recently. But despite the follies of politicians, what the king did remains wrong. And the truth is, 1990 and its achievements are NOT a sham -- and you do a great disservice to a 50 year old struggle by denouncing the movement as loudly as your enemy Royal stooges.
Yes, I agree with you on the origin of the original sin -- sleaze, vice and corruption -- being the Palace; it all began in an institutionalized manner from Mahendra's days, and got worse after 2036; and the new people after 1990 were so easily co-opted. But you seem to think the design always existed, they never really gave up power. I say no. Their design to stage their comeback was ad-hoc, and prompted when samsadbadis started bungling. I remember speaking to a very senior person who worked at the Prime Minster's Office in 1991 and then in 1997. He says he was shocked to find the change in the nature of interaction between the elected PM's office and Durbar in those two periods. In 1991, the people's reps reigned supreme, reactionaries fled, king lay low; by 1997 (actually 1995 onwards and all that hung parliament hangama), our reps began to err in such a way that a slow resurrection was facilitated. I thus KNOW our gains then were real -- and the utopian republican ideals of revamping the whole thing, perhaps in the original way the Maoists intended -- wouldn't have worked, probably won't work. That's why I am a realistic democrat -- one who believes in competitive politics, the current Constitution, and in improving our existing mess from within. I will always oppose attempts to seek redresses through quick fixes, such as this latest Royal maneuver AND Maoist despotism. You are well aware of my positions AGAINST the Maoists. And you have seen how firm my stances have been AGAINST the royal experiment of last week.
I am a flexible realist within the broad parameters of my rigid ideals. Damage has been done, but our next move is to limit that damage. While condemning, warning, protesting, we still have to move on to preserve what remains of the current khaka. And that means having this new royal installment work for us to hold the new elections and elect a new parliament soonest. I have big hopes from the new parliament -- it should be radical enough to curtail royal excesses and remove all constitutional ambiguities. I hope that parliament takes concrete steps to sever the tie between the palace and the source of its illegitimate power, the Army. All this in addition to a continued pursuit of a progressive social and a bold economic agenda, alongside the political questions of governance, from anti-corruption to devolution. I am a kramik sudharbadi, a samsadbadi who believes in setting concrete institutions and getting things done in a slow, process-and-system oriented manner. I don't believe in bloody revolutions and overnight solutions. So the "bold" republican goals of starting anew by restructuring everything, beginning with the abolition of the monarchy, is something that's not on my agenda. And neither is any of this royal nautanki my kind of opera.
I am thus surprised to hear you were disappointed. About what, I ask?
I was responding to the very micro news of the new govt., and giving my quick reactions on the pluses and the minuses. Has my macro view of the situation changed on the Great Royal Error and our immediate goal of restoring the Parliament? Not at all. Not an inch. My next interest is in seeing how we can elect the next parliament as soon as possible so that the process of democratization is not derailed further. Within that frame, I will of course be observing the minute details, and it was in that spirit I was evaluating Chand's team. If you re-read my points, you will see a recurring theme: it is nice, but weak to take on the immediate hurdles that are in the way of electing that new parliament that I want elected badly. I say, to remove those hurdles, this Chand team will really need the support of samsadbadis. I thus hope Chand recruits a few clean heavyweights from the major parties. I also hope that the Maoists cooperate with the samsadbadis, so that the king is not given another excuse to solidify his regressive hold.
Myself and Village Voice are among a very lonely minority here taking all kind of prahaar from a camp that you call "royal dhupaures". Now, you jump in, and prahaar from the other end. I know yours is a fond, affectionate prahaar, one from an ally, a true Comrade. Tara yo bich baato ko bedana pani sundinus, Nepe-ji. Yeti sunera pani bikekai hau bhannu hunchha bhane, thikai chha, maaf paun, yehan bhanda thulo sochne wa aghi jaane saamarthya kahilai bhayena, thiyena.
Bastab ma tyo bhram pani kahilai paliyena!
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| Jayahos |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 05:33 AM
>>Without going into detail and perhaps to the delight of some nirlajja king G. ka dhupaure haru in this and many other threads.........
Otherwise cool and MADHYAM MARGI NEPE appears UGRA when it comes to GANATANTRA vs. RAJTANTRA (as if he hails of KIRTIPUR!!).........:)
When it comes to the question whether the move by KING is constitutional or un-constitutional, straight forward answer is: IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL FROM THE VERY BEGINING. In the first parliamentary election when KP Bhattarai, a popular and well accepted leader from all KHEMA at that time, lost election and a question was raised whether he can become PM and run in by-election (as it is possible even in INDIA), BN UPADHYAYA said - no, he can not! This provision, remarkably different from the traditional practice in many countries, was placed in the constitution to prevent the KING from redundantly declaring anyone as PM. This is the spirit and word of the constitution! KING's MOVE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
Now next question is: Whether he has good intent or not? I have every reason to doubt his intentions, but even his intenstions are good - does end justify means?
About his intention:
1. Most of the key members, except Dahit and Anuradha jyu (I have no idea about their connection to him!), are either his close associates or have significant connection to PANCHAYATI RAJ. King still seems to have PANCHAYATI hang over. Does anyone have idea that Dr. UPENDRA is using the same vehicle the KING used to own?
2. What new change does he expect from LB, a person rejected by people and a PM already for three times?
That said, LB was PM in transition period from PANCHAYAT to MP DEMOCRACY. Is he going to perform the same role to take the country from MP DEMOCRACY to MAOISM?
:P
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| iXY |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 06:14 AM
Jayahos ji,
I disagree with you on "That said, LB was PM in transition period from PANCHAYAT to MP DEMOCRACY. ". LB was PM in Bahudal, so his PMship around dead end of Panchayat is irrelevant. Its bahudal badis who accepted his Premiership. Kangressi and UML both should now regret for the way they were indulging themselves in power house. Every thing we have today is byproduct of UML and NC's misuse of public support during last 12years. I join to say that last 12years should have been an Abbhyas, neither an experiment of Bahudal nor a research on Bahudal. But, our leaders behaved like the kid Kalidas.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 06:15 AM
nepe,
be polite, cruded, raw, rude what differencee does it make? your choice! but a friendly sugegstion, it doesn't harm to be polite, it will help you make your way to the top.
ok these are irrelevent given what we are discussing here.
I agree to disagree with you.
and i don't think you did your homework well before posting that message.
how do you even know that someone name pamfa devi existed? and that she had accounts in swiss banks?
here's what pamphadevi means (exclusievely for you)
write pamphadevi in nepali.
pa with point on the top ( this is sometimes said pan or pam depending on the word)
pa=panchayat
fa=fascist
de-desh
vi=virodhi
that's what it means. now, you have your RIGHTS to say that this is all tod efend the monarchy, and you are free to iunterprert anyway you deem fit.
another thing is that swiss banks value their customers' privacy. they wouldn't just give information on the accounts with large sum of money. i have even heard that if you are depositing a very large sum of money, then, they issue you a code (PIN) to access your account. I might be wrong on this because i don't have a swiss acoount, or else i would have posted my PIN here.
about being dhupaure, this and that,w ell i can very well say, you are a baburam ko dhupare or prachanda ko chamcha or this guy's this and that guy's that. so let's refrain from making this thred where one gets realluy personal. You have your theories, your ideology, fine, but that does not mean that you go around making deregotary emarks to every one who supports and respects the institution of monarchy. you have your views, i have mine, and putting my views in PUBLIC in a democratic forum like this makes me a dhupaure, then the same can be said to you too, hoina ra?
in other thoughts, well, i guess i am a dhupaure and so are the 90% of the hindus and buddhists (note i am saying 90% of the buddhists and hindus, not the total nepali population) are dhupaures because we like the king and say he is the incarnation of lord vishnu and every morning i pray and light dhoop to vishnu, which means, i am lighting dhoop to the king. the same applies with the buddhists too, every year at samyak puja, they have to wash his feet thinking of him as lokeswara. so, yeah, dhupaure bhaye dhupaure.
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| kreep |
Posted
on 12-Oct-02 01:43 PM
Ignorant ppl. Stop reading books and try to understand what Nepal is really made up of. Some postings here makes me laugh! Yaeh,great deal of knowledge about the system but not of what is occuring in Nepal.
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 13-Oct-02 12:51 AM
Paschim,
Tapaain sanga ko baat-chit bhanda sukhad kura kamai holan. Sahamat hunda pani aananda laagchha, asahamat hunda pani aananda laagchha. Aba mero disappoinment chanhi tapaile aunlyaunu bhaye jastai mero aafnai karanley bhayeko ho- I kept expecting too much while being aware of the unlikeliness of it. Tara euta naya kura pani bhayo ni haina ra ? After His Majesty revealed/signaled what he is up to/what he is capable of, I thought (now I can see, naively) that perhaps my dear friends Paschim, Biswo ji and VV ji might reconsider their strong support for the ‘constitutional monarchy’. Well, I certainly underestimated these chattan.haru.laai. Tara, this is not the first time I failed to melt hearts of friends and NKs !
Tapaain ley bhannu bhayo:
>Aakal-jhukkal saath payeko chhu, natra eklai ladi raheku chhu yehan, bidhi ko raaj ko damfu pitdai…..Tara pani gaurab chha, ek inch yeta uta garya chhaina aafno adaan bata. ..Aba tapain aaunu hunchha ra bhannu hunchha, timi haru pani bikyau. This is unfair.
No, I did not say that. I have never doubted the integrity of Paschim. Nepe biklaa, Poorba maa ghaam astaaulaa, tara Paschim baata autocracy ko samarthan-ghham kahile udaaune chhaina. Siyo ko tuppo jati pani shankaa nagarey hunchha yesmaa. My only fear is that the buyer might well benefit by what you do or do not care to do. Tetti ho.
>Nepe-ji, we have a fundamental difference -- you are a staunch republican, against the monarchy in an absolute way. I'm not, I believe in legally and constitutionally restraining the institution.
Yes, Paschim. We have fundamental difference. I think we will continue to enjoy the respectful disagreement on this for some time.
>Like a true republican (and ironically, like your nemesis the monarchists) you also just trashed the 1990 constitution by saying the transfer of sovereignty in 1990 was a sham. Right here, I disagree with you.
No, I did not say it is a complete sham. By calling it a semicracy, I am recognizing the partial transfer of the sovereignty to the people. As it must be somewhere in our exchange in the past. I share your view that 2047 ko sambidhan is the second most significant Upalabdhi of Nepali janata after 2007 saal. Let me also add that hisabai garne ho bhane I have sacrificed some tears, a lot of sweats and 5 precious years of my youth to eventually bring it. Ansha nai lagaune ho bhane mero bhaag maa ek dhaaraa, dhaaraa nabhaye ek upadhaaraa, upadhaaraa pani nabhaye ek dui shabda parnu parchha. Kunai mu** G. ra si laai yo sambidhhan laai langauti banauna dinna kya ma. Janata laai ajha badhi poorna samprabhuman banaaune kura po gareko ta maile. And that will be the largest upalabdhi of Nepali people in their entire history. And that day, whenever will be, you will write that very sentence in your yet another historical posting (speech for the new Nepal sarkaar perhaps ?) and I will be saying I agree ! Kripaya eslai Nepe ley paaleko bhram nabhanidinu hola.
>I think until the late 1990s, before our representatives started losing the moral high ground, monarchists were a defeated force. It is the democrats' follies that has allowed them to resurrect, that almost paved the way for full-blown retrogression recently.
Paschim, let me tell you that you picked the most important part of the argument of today. It seems that the consensus among Nepali intelligensia is exactly what you just wrote. And this is exactly where I differ with them. At the surface it looks true. But this is a chicken or egg first argument. You say the near resurrection of the retrogative force is because of the follies of the democrats. I say the follies or inability of the democrats is the only inevitable result of the compromised democracy (Semicracy, I am going to patent this word :-)). This is actually the main thrust of the argument in my last posting. You have recognized, in the specific context of corruption, an unchallenged continuity of the system from Maharaj Mahendra’s rule to today. But you assert that there was no (political) design to stage a come back in future. I agree with you regarding the later. I have never said there was a DESIGN, I have only said there was no RESIGN from the possibility. I am not blaming anybody. As a matter of fact, I understand that given the time and the power relationship of that time, 2047 ko smabidhan was a grand upalabdhi. It must be cherished. As everybody did, I too believed that so much power at the hand of people must be enough for the rest to achieve as a process of kramik unnati. I hoped then to see the secondary manifestation of democracy- transparency, accountability and good governance- and the final fruits - rule of law, justice and bikas. The rest is history. Today’s mess in front of us is chikh chikh ke kah rahi hai, there is something missing in this simple raj-ganit. Chhoto formula ma bhannu parda, I think while DEMOCRATIZATION is essentially an incremental process, DEMOCRACY is not. DEMOCRACY is a revolutionary and all or none phenomenon, at least in the Himalayan kingdom of Nepal. Semicracy did not work. It is not going to work.
>In 1991, the people's reps reigned supreme, reactionaries fled, king lay low; by 1997 (actually 1995 onwards and all that hung parliament hangama), our reps began to err in such a way that a slow resurrection was facilitated. I thus KNOW our gains then were real -- and the utopian republican ideals of revamping the whole thing, perhaps in the original way the Maoists intended -- wouldn't have worked, probably won't work.
You may be right. But it was about then. Let’s talk about now and future.
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 13-Oct-02 12:52 AM
Contd.....
>I have big hopes from the new parliament -- it should be radical enough to curtail royal excesses and remove all constitutional ambiguities. I hope that parliament takes concrete steps to sever the tie between the palace and the source of its illegitimate power, the Army. All this in addition to a continued pursuit of a progressive social and a bold economic agenda, alongside the political questions of governance, from anti-corruption to devolution.
It sounds nice. But here are my reservations. First of all, you are setting up a very liquid and personality dependent system. It works only if we have bold leaders, only if we have sadhu raja and only if we have loyalty shift of the army. Then it is a design where the struggle between monarch and the parliament is most likely to continue for years (or even decades). For a country like Nepal with relatively easily manipulative people (do Maoists growth and recent fresh Deepawali not say anything ?) and the lack of affordability for a prolonged political conflict (we are not Britain/Ireland or Spain), is it a good option ? I doubt. And as for the pursuit of a progressive social and a bold economic agenda, just by simple logic and undeniable evidence from the whole past decade, it is not compatible with the monarchy. I have been arguing this all along. And I am sure everybody can explain this much better than my artless articulation. I wish I am as articulate as Paschim or Sitara or there are so many Sajhaites I envy.
> I am a kramik sudharbadi, a samsadbadi who believes in setting concrete institutions and getting things done in a slow, process-and-system oriented manner. I don't believe in bloody revolutions and overnight solutions. So the "bold" republican goals of starting anew by restructuring everything, beginning with the abolition of the monarchy, is something that's not on my agenda. And neither is any of this royal nautanki my kind of opera.
I am sorry to say this, but you are misrepresenting the republican agenda, Paschim. You know I am not talking about Maoists ‘Sarbahara ko adhinayakatwa’. Republican democracy is everything you described above plus one damn revolution, may be red, may be velvet.
> I am thus surprised to hear you were disappointed. About what, I ask?
Aafai bhannu hunchha mero disappoint garaune baani chha bhanera, feri sodhnu pani hunchha. Ke chaal ho ? Katai yestai yestai garera lonesome basnu pareko ta hoina, Paschim ?
> I was responding to the very micro news of the new govt., and giving my quick reactions on the pluses and the minuses. Has my macro view of the situation changed on the Great Royal Error and our immediate goal of restoring the Parliament? Not at all. Not an inch.
Well, this does not disappoint me at all.
> My next interest is in seeing how we can elect the next parliament as soon as possible so that the process of democratization is not derailed further. Within that frame, I will of course be observing the minute details, and it was in that spirit I was evaluating Chand's team. If you re-read my points, you will see a recurring theme: it is nice, but weak to take on the immediate hurdles that are in the way of electing that new parliament that I want elected badly. I say, to remove those hurdles, this Chand team will really need the support of samsadbadis. I thus hope Chand recruits a few clean heavyweights from the major parties.
I undestand your perhaps pragmatic interest to see things settle peacefully and as soon as possible. But I look at it differently. Putting my republican agenda aside, I think it is the second in a row rajaley sambidhan laai latyaye ra janata ko sovereignty laai BITULO paaridiye. I don’t think it is a matter to be put under the carpet. First, we should not allow a wrong precedence to take place. Second, we should make G. feel and understand Nepali people can and does punish ( at least morally for now and legally in future if possible) him for his wrongdoings. Third, Chand and his cabinet should know that the king can not force a parachakri sarkar on the people. And last but not the least, there is no significant advantage of the illegimate Chand sarkar to ignore the damage to be revamped right now. Gyanendra ko nirnaya firta gari sab bhanda jayaz bikalpa, parliament reinstate garnu parchha. Is reinstating the dissolved parliament is unconstitutional ? It is not constitutional. But it not unconstitutional too. Besides, it is morally right. If the husband of a widow revives, should she reject him ?
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| nuts |
Posted
on 13-Oct-02 01:07 AM
yeso nepe ko post lai matra scroll down garya, it took a while for his two posts to scrolled down..haina some people can just write.. I have a philosophy paper due monday, nepe. Shall I e-mail the topic of the paper to you ? :--)
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