| Username |
Post |
| jame bonds |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 03:03 PM
I just went to go to a site completely in Nepali script, and to my disbelief my eyes hurt trying to read the articles in Nepali Script. Am I getting americanized or is it the way Nepali Scripts look in the web?
It is a scary concept for me to get a headache when I try to read articles in my own language!
|
| do |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 03:37 PM
Good for you, if thats what you want to hear. =)<<<<
|
| Biruwa |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 03:57 PM
If its not the screen problem,
YOU SUCK BIG TIME!!!!!!! :(
|
| Madhav |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 04:08 PM
May or May not be. If you can talk with your mother in Nepali, probably it will take time to get you Americanized.
|
| DWI |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 04:25 PM
Cool down people.
I think its just normal to feel that way. You're used to reading alphabets in the computer screen, which is different than a normal book as immense light is coming out of the screen. This gives the sense of different environment than just a regular book. When you see Devnagari font in computer, your brain might take a while to adjust to the script.
I think I have already adjusted to Kantipur now. As 'do' said, if you feel pride on being 'Americanized' then be happy.
|
| Arnico |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 04:58 PM
I do think that Nepali script requires a larger font size to be able to read comfortably on-screen. I think part of the reason is the number of "twists" and "turns" that our letters contain within the height of a regular letter. What is the visually most complex letter in English? B, R, H, small a? Each has an upper and a lower half...quite simple to read, to figure out the shape of, even when very small.
Now compare that to some of our letters and combined letters, like the "chhe" (third last consonant in the alphabet), or ddha (of Buddha)... or even "ha" or "dha" or "ee" ...
I can't read Nepali script on-screen without increasing the font size compared to what I can read in English/German/French etc. (you should be able to do that in your browser too).
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 05:08 PM
Jame bonds ji
I sympathize with you. Out of practice bhayera ho ki kina...Nepali script padhda speed reading garna sakdina....mailey
:(
I also have difficulty reading phonetic Nepali written in English.
Does that make me Americanized????????
I don't think so!
|
| Thakkar Sharma |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 07:37 PM
Sitaraji,
It looks like you'r somewhere in the middle. You are now about to leave Nepalipan, but can't say exactly whether you are heading towards Americanpan. But becareful somebody will need to find out word similar to Hispanic to match your background. Peolple here eat burger instead of 'Bhuteko Makai'. Drink bear instead of 'MOI' (Please ask me if you don't know what is meaning of MOI), take dinner late night, go to night club instead of 'Rodi' and so and so. And after all talking in English with fellow Nepali. And I bet you are not an exception. After doing all these and many more, you must be considering yourself as americanized. Correct me if I am wrong.
I must say this is a good topic to discuss.
|
| Biruwa |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 07:50 PM
Hi James Bond,
Sorry for my quick reply above!!!
May be there is some prob. with screen or may be you just need to increase the font size as the nepali script needs bigger font size just to equal the actual english alphabet size!!
|
| jame bonds |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 07:55 PM
Guys chill out, did I ever say I was proud to be getting 'americanized'? In fact I said it is a scary concept for me if not being able to read nepali script was being americanized.
Oh well, we live in a doggy dogg world.
Rock on..
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 08:01 PM
Sangat Gun Ko Phal - Nepali Ma
Affected by association - English Ma
Induction - Scietific society Ma
Natural selection - Nature Ma
Whether you like it or not it is bound to happen. You will slowly get transformed to the majority of the society where you live. Havn't you found a Sardarni in Kathmandu talking sweat Nepali? Enjoying 'Bhutun Baji' with her friends?
It is neither a curse, nor a great achievement, but it is 'natural' to be Americanized after sometime if you are in USA - provided you are not aloof in Montana Jungle (no offense Montana Sajhaites). Talk to a Khalis Nepali friend after five years with whom you had lost contact, and ask him, 'Saathi Ma I Amercan Bhayen?'.
By how much, to what degree, and for good or for bad is only questionable.
It is only 'LOGICAL'.
Havn't you noticed, many so called Sajha OutSider has slowly fallen into the 'Sajha Main Stream'? That is only natural.
It is 'Sitara' effect or 'Paramendra effect' or it is 'Bitchpatrol effect', or now 'M.P.' effect but, people change.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 08:17 PM
Sometimes even *you* make sense Logical Sense. :]
Still, I did not get the last line. Come again?
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 08:28 PM
Common NK, I have always been making 'Logical Sense' :-)
What is this 'Square Smile' now? You wrote :] - miss type or deliberate?
Oh, the last line was to say that due to different posters 'induction effect' other Sajha posters get influenced and all Sajha posters slowly get 'Sajhaite effects'.
Meaning 'Sajhaites' will show a different behaviour from 'TNDites' and so on.
(Only Sitara, Paramendra, Bitchpatrol and MP were mentioned just because they are' Volume' posters or 'Intense' posters - of course there are NK effect, Biswo effect, Ashu effect, or Paschim effect and list goes on)
Did you notice how many posters became 'journalists' after 'M.P.' persona?
|
| NK |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 08:46 PM
Got it!
that square smile was no accident, as our analyst baje would tell you there is no such thing as an accident. It was just a beeeeeeeeeeg smile. that was all. I thought subtle gesture goes unnoticed and cues present itself as miscue in this land so why not a smile that nobody would mistake for a smirk. :]]]] There! Just to make sure y'know.:]
|
| psychodreamer |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 08:49 PM
Thakkar bro Nepal ma ta manche haru beer nai piudaina hai...Moi matra drink garcha hai..i don think when you said "poeple here eat burger instead of 'Bhoteko Maki' " is funny either. you are not good at Sarcasm
Om nama Shivaya
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 08:52 PM
Thakkar Sharma ji....
Darshan hajur!
Hajur ko ekagraha drishya ma jasto nalayak mathi pareko dekhera..... Malai ati nai aafu prati ghrina ko bhawa upa bhawa mahasoos bhayeraheko cha.....yo Dashain ko Shubha Awasar ma.
Kripaya hajur ko karuna maya drishaya ma jasto Americanized Neprican bata hatai dina ma, hajuraki charana ma binati chadhaoondachu!!!!
And on that note:
kodo ko roti, gundruk ko jhol, moi, saaga ra sisnu khayera basnu ta
Malai pani maan thiyo... tara ke garne, bhagya ley saath diyena malai......
Had to come to US to be Westernized...as KTM did not afford me too many opportunities of doing that!!!!!!!!!!
And Sire, (...this, I will address you in Shakespearan English, not American...) how can the likes of those such as myself correct the likes of those such as yourself, who are blessed with the insights of a seer and most profoundly conclude that those such as myself may practise being anybody else other than a Neprican!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And with that, I conclude in Sanskrit:
Arunewa bodheyen purwa santamasey hrinte l
taat aabhirwavedatma swayamewanshumuniwa ll
I'm sure your very authentically, original Nepali self can translate that!
And a Happy Dashain to you too!!
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 09:14 PM
Logical Sense ji
I will give you a very valid and logical term which will make Great sense to you ! This, from Sociology/Anthropology or even Human Developmental Psychology:
It is called "Enculturation": A slow (?)but sure process of getting into the thick of another culture and adapting to it (Not necessarily adopting it).
And I do confess that I Do NOT suffer from Ethnocentrism to the extent that I have shut myself out of your Sajhapur Shahar.
Ke Garne hajur, Sajhapur ghoomna matra ayeko thiyen, but decided to stay on and get the Greencard too!!! I do not stray too far away from my real American life either!
It just so happens I am a new immigrant (and a die hard one at that:)....and we all know the trials and tribulations new immigrants and/or foreigners or minorities have to pass, to gain citizenships.
And, the reason why you do see me post so often, is because, like any new immigrant, I am trying to make a living by making threads-ends meet, doing odds and ends jobs...in almost every thread....
And no! us new immigrants have no intentions of displacing the hierarchy of the Hundreth Generation Sajhaites!
So sue me for that or just shut your eyes and say SITARAM!SITARAM! SITARAM! and oh don't forget to bathe in suna paani either!!!
Happy Dashain to you too !
:]
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 10:29 PM
Open your check book and write out a check for Sajha!!
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 10:40 PM
Been there and done that too!
and Now I am broke... big time :(
Lost my job with The Sinking Nepal too!!!
Sniff Sniff!!!
:P
|
| czar |
Posted
on 14-Oct-02 11:13 PM
Hitler wanted to cleanse the Fatherland of the non-Aryans who were supposedly polluting the landscape. He questioned their Germanic qualities and found them lacking. So his regime put to death six million Jews. The rest, as they say, is actual history.
Stalin, Nikita Kruschev, Mao, Khomeni, Sadam Hussein et al put to death or caused the death of millions of those whose credentials and creed they found questionable.
Pricelless historical treasures in Afghanistan destroyed by another bunch of late.
Each has something in common: that a certain group believe they define the essense of something Be it belief, genetic purity, ideological beliefs. And lamentably find others lacking in it. Further, they take it upon themselves to setting things right in a manner they see fit. The so called 'others' don't merit the respect as human beings. They would treat their pets better than the 'others.'
Do I detect such an attitude expressed in Sajhapur this day ?
I wore jeans, did that make me American ? I ate apple pie and like it too, ooh..yankee leanings. I have zero interest in American football, baseball. The INS must surely rule me to be an undesireable alien.
I love momo, implies I am mongolian. I dont read the nepali vernaculars or pay much attention to the Nepali newspapers, that must brand me as an arastriya tatwo. I like opera, ke furti dincha ? I like Narayan Gopal..oho ramrai cha.
I love the Himalayas, I ache for a sight of them, I have cruized the net till dawn, gazing at pictures of the beloved mountains I miss with every fiber of my being. Hmm..desh premi.
I have walked many a hill and valley, drunk from many a silent pool where but the wild animals of the forest come to quench their thirst on hot summer days. Harumph..not bad.
So just who is the arbitror of just what constitutes a Nepali, or Indian or Chinese or you name it ? I wonder. Can they step forward please.
I would ask, have you ever watched a sunset or moonrise from 45,000 feet sitting in the cockpit of a jumbo ? If you have, I then ask you, do you see any borders on the lovely blue planet you float above ? Show me please.
I reside on this blue planet, third from a G2 class star in what we call the solar system, spiral galaxy Milky way. What if I choose to align myself to the citizenship of the Milky way galaxy. What then ? Who then, are the judges of purity here ? Andromedan ?
Dasain ko suvakamana sabailai.
|
| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 12:16 AM
Czar, Namaste !! Gajjab chha la gajjab. Sabailai dashainko subhakamana.
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 02:07 AM
NK, loved your beeeeeeeeeeeeg smile :] Let us call it Smile SQUARED! (Smile to the power of two)
Sitaraji, Gajabcha Yanhako expressions, as always!
I wonder though, you did not give up Sajha after the school opened as you mentioned before. That means, you are robbing off time from someone else? ;( Poor he/she/it/they - I pity he/she/it/they.
-iti
|
| SOULFREE |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 05:08 AM
Jame bro, (damn, looks like I am following this guy today... whereever he goes, I am there... Is that a coincidence or Jame bro posting on every posting...!!)
Jame bro, it sounds like a big problem to me. May be you are Americanised or May be not. But there are couple of things I wanna make sure before I send you over to DR DRE (who just sits there and operates). 'the word is not enough'.
1. How many 'vodka martini' did you have, before you got home-sick and opened up Nepali Website and couldn't read a thing. (Try another day).
2. Are you sure you were reading Nepali? "daaru paryo pachi chinese pani nepali dekhinchani. (dr. NO?)
3. When was the last time you had your eyes examined? I know some people don't wanna accept the fact that they are growing older, and they need eye-glass. (Tomorrow never dies, and you are growing older every day)
4. Did you consult some hot brunette, Halle Herry look-alike, beauty with the brain before you down load 'preeti' font? Or should we assume, you downloaded 'kantipur' font insted of ' preeti'? (golden eye winks!!).
5. Did you let Miss M know about your recent problem? If not, then let her know, so that she could reccomend you to Dr. NO, and prescribe for viagra.. I mean prozac.(licence to kill -- yeah baby)
6. Is Real slim shady Mr Q still alive? May be he could come up with some new gadget for your "view to kill???" eyes. Hey don't worry, those girls they won't know. Its not sixties dude. They have contact lenses these days. No sir, it has nothing to do with your contacts with girls, and it doesn't look like condom.. well sort of.
So, just answer these question so that we could evaluate your case.
You only live twice, and die another day!!
|
| SOULFREE |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 05:16 AM
Sitara Ji,
Could I borrow that "nepali to english" dictionary you brought from Kathmandu? And could you stick a note with a translation of those two sanskrit lines... My language translator doesn't translate Nepali to English!!!
Please!!
:}
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 05:38 AM
Logical Sense ji..
Hehe! My poor "studies" is suffering and so is my " sleep"!!! But the Research subject and Sajhapur happen to exist in the same computer, so, thankfully I do not have to run out and look for a cyber cafe......to post one-liners in Sajha. :)
:( "They" were last seen headed South cursing Sajhapur!
Soulfree ji,
You can even borrow my " thicharus" :)
CZAR ji,
To use the expressions of men out here:
Wah wah kya mara!!!! :)
Thakkar Sharma ji...
Ahiley yo 5 bajey ko ghadi ma, yo Dashain ko din, hajur ko agya liyikana, Nawa Durga Bhawani ko charana kamala ma euta diyo baalney prayetna gardachu...!
Hopefully, she does have the grace to accept a diyo from this angrezi speaking Neprican. I f , I get discriminated by my own kul devi..... ma kahan jaoonla ni hajur launa! Malai ta bityans nai parcha!
:)
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 07:10 AM
Logical Senseji,
Sorry, I seem to be working overtime and illegally (again as a new immigrant) AGAIN!!. Please I beseech you: do not report/deport me to NK (Natualization Kommissar), who will gleefully deport me to Cyberia. :(
And yes, my 10 children and my dead husband's soul (lol), my reason, logical sense and TV time are dying of neglect!!!!!!!!!
Oh WEll!!!
:P
|
| Soleil |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 07:24 AM
Aaaannnncccccccchhhhhhhh ni ho, raddiz ni ho som haru.
Jame Bonds, saathi-bro, you didn't quite bond your title with the content. You simply stated that you faced difficulty in reading Nepali Script over the net. That could be very much possible but, that doesn't make one Americanized or anything. Anyway, I hear you, it is quite uneasy to read Nepali Script on a computer screen as to read a book published in Nepali. It might be due to the script's twists and turns as you have mentioned, you must also have realized that most of the Nepali Fonts that they are available over the net are not error proof. In other words, the Nepali Fonts on the net differ variably; like Kanti Font differs from Gorkhapatra Font, though they both are in Dev-Nagari. I am not talking about the styles, but the letters themselves that are totally different than the conventional scripts used in the text books, consequently leading to confusion and difficulty in reading.
Abu khas kuro garaun. Hamro saathi haru Aagra kura garda Gagra kina banaune bhanya? Hey Cetamol!..... khalti ko ghau.... maile ta kuro nai bujhna sakina. Kyarrnu?
Burger ko sato bhuteko makai ra Beer ko sato moi khandai ma manchhe Nepali hunchha? Uso bhaye Goray Khaire lai bhuteko makai ra moi khwaundai ma Nepricanized hunchha? Thakkar Sathi, timro kasto khappar ho tyo?hehehehehe..... Ani khubai angreji chhantya chha. That makes you a Neprican or an American? Implied your own description of one being Americanized, Thakkar bro, you are one too.
Sitara, hajoor gardish ko sitara, kripaya yo dharti ko andhakaar ma ajhai prakash chhardai janu hola. Tapain lai dhanyabad!!!
Czar, waiting for that night to gaze upon them Sitaras together:) hehehehehehe
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 12:14 PM
Soliel and czar...
Don't you even dare!!!! hehehe!!!! :)))
I will wear my burka! Thakkar ji Yo, Sitara gone Muslim too!!!!
:P
|
| Dilasha |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 01:16 PM
Sitara jaan, salaam wa-alekhum!! :)
Czar, intersting! :)
|
| surya |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 06:52 PM
I have always wondered what people mean when they say so and so is "Americanzed" anyhow. It is usually used derogatorily. And whenever someone does use the term as some sort of badge of honor, well that always reeks of some inferiority complex.
Anyhow, Czar ko kura ramro lagyo... silent pool, cockpit and all.
|
| Thakkar Sharma |
Posted
on 15-Oct-02 10:21 PM
Sitaraji,
I am glad you are back somehow to Nepalipan. From your views it looks like you are pretending yourself as an americanized person. Or may be you wish all others to call you as an americanized person. It's hard to believe that a person who can read and write in Sanskrit, can hardly read Nepali written in roman. Was that sanskrit slok just a 'cut and paste'? just curious.
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 06:34 AM
Sharma ji;
Darshan hajur!
Why this more than mild (obsessive..?)interest in Sitara's background and Nepalipan? Hmmmm interesting! You, sire are welcome to thrive in your opinion/s because your prejudice becomes you!
|
| Poonte |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 07:05 AM
I wonder how many of you self-proclaimed staunch Nepalis actually went to Rodi ghars, ate bhuteko makai, drank MOI, wore only daura suruwals (traditional fariyas, for ladies), or even loved listeniung Jhyaure music...
Just be who you are, enjoy the hell out of being yourself, and worry not about what you are becoming--Amrikan or Nepali, still a part of beautiful humanity :)
|
| Thakkar Sharma |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 07:27 AM
Poonte Bhai,
You are right. That is what I meant. Just be what you are. Don't pursue which cannot be achieved. I think nobody will be americanized if could not read roman nepali. We are not able to be fully Nepali how can we be americanized.
Sitaraji,
Nothing personal. I thought you are feeling americanized because you cannot read roman nepali fluently but you can write sanskrit slok. I was just curious since I believe sanskrit is more difficult than roman nepali.
|
| chipledhunga |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 08:23 AM
8:22 am. Office aeko adha ghanta bhaeko chaina, Sajha ma chirisakiyo. Anyway, looking back at Czar's posting, let's try to define what is Americanization. Certainly, most of us do wear jeans, eat apple pie, and watch American TV shows. So are we all Americanized then? Even when in Nepal, we used to wear jeans and listen to American music. So were we already Americanized even then? Most of the Nepali ladies wear kurta suruwal, so are they Indianized (or Punajabified to be more specific)? I am a non-newar but I love Newari dishes, so am I Newarized? A little more on myself: I love Thai, Indian, Middle Eastern, African, and Korean dishes as well, not to mention momo and thukpa that were introduced to Nepal from Tibet. So am I Tibetanized, Koreanized, Africanized? I love American music as well, so does that make me Americanized? At the same time, I love Nepal, I love Nepali food and music, I love traveling in Nepal, I am proud of our culture aadi ityaadi...so am I still a Nepali? My near-zero interest towards basketball and American football should actually make me anti-American, hoina ra? Well, I would rather say I am globalized, and I am sure it is the same case with everyone. Also what is the fine line that distinguishes between being and not being Americanized? Well, the bottomline is, be appreciative to foreign culture without sacrificing your own values and culture. Yeta ae pachi alikati yaha ko culture ma pani bhijna saknu paryo. It is not that I don't want a long Dashain ko chutti right now, tara ke garne? Yee, ekadashi ko bihana office aeko chu, ani lunch ma chiura tarkari hoina sandwich khanchu.
Going back to the original posting, yes, it is not too easy to read Nepali font on the computer. Althoough I have been reading it for several years, still I find reading in English more comfortable. Like others mentioned earlier, the complex structure of our alphabet makes it realtively difficult to read for any given font size.
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:09 AM
Poonte ji, Chipledhunga ji, Soliel ji, Czar ji, Psycho dreamer ji;
My points exactly, but "some" of us can't resist showing off our brilliant one-sided, tunnel visioned knowledge....acquired painstakingly through selective hearing and reading!
But who are we to take away "their" moment of flickering enlightenment!
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:26 AM
Soleil!
I caught you!!
There is another thread for that i.e. making fun of my oh-so-revered accent! Please do visit us there.
:)!
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:31 AM
Hoina, can someone give me the definition of an Americanized Nepali? I think one should do as they feel like doing. Guniu cholo looks very very cute but alik context mileyna kya, can't be halloween everyday! Plus, I would have a tough time finding matching shoes for my guniu!
Now that is starting to get cold again, I have to go get a pair of hunterwali boots. Imagine that with guniu!!
Just a thought!
|
| Poonte |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:37 AM
I have seen old Indian ladies walking arounf malls wearing a sari and those hunter boots...
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:44 AM
Suna
Good one!!!!!!!
I'm sure Sharma ji does not mind the freezing cold as he must surely bathe in chiso pani "janai samayera, ardha nagna going "Hara Gangey Hara Gangey"!!!!!!!! " The authentic Nepali that he is!!!
But Sharma ji; just a cautionary Note: Practising such ethnic Nepalipaan in inapropriately snowy water may freeze ALL your digits off, rendering them inoperable.!!!
:)
|
| chipledhunga |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:46 AM
Talking about old Indian ladies, I once saw a couple of them eating in McDonalds. Gai ko masu bhaeko burger khae ki grilled chicken sandwich khae ki aru nai ke khadai thie, tyo ta I did not notice tara they were wearings saris and had tikas on their foreheads. So are they Americanized, still Indians, or globalized :)?
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 11:50 AM
Chipledhunga: they must be messed up!!
:)!
Like a whole lot of us....I hate this nepalipana being shoved down people's throats. One can only swallow what one find palateable if not, its just FINE to spit it out.
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 02:33 PM
"Saralikrit" - my dear(s), is the answer. Make it easy, so that everyone adapts to it.
In English they call it "KISS" - Keep It Simple Stupid.
If we want to preserve Nepalipan as a culture in 'Bidesh' then we must make 'Nepalipan' adaptable and so simple that it will get swallowed easily and we don't have to spit it out.
"Survival of the Fittest".
You can think of many ways to make it simple:
1) Saari in McDonald? Does not make sense, but, looks so 'lovely' in Nepali Pooja. If you are a visitor that is different story.
2) Dasain Tika at 11:01 AM? Which time, EST, CST, MST, PST or Nepali Standard time? Rather what is convenient to your family 8:00PM after all days work, perfect. There is no 'Dasain' Bida in US.
3) Jamara without 'bali' is not a Amercanized dasain.
etc. etc.
For me I would say, 'Good Americanized' is better than 'Bad Nepalipan'. Drinking bear in Kathmandu bar with your 15 year old son in the name of being 'liberal' is 'Bad Nepalipan'. Asking your son to accept 'college loan' for his medical studies in Atlanta is 'Good Americanized' even though you have plenty to give to your kids.
Coming back at 2:00 am drunk to your wife and kids in Baneswor chowk home is 'Bad Nepalipan', but, washing dishes to help your wife while talking to your kids with their shool day is 'Good Americanized'
- iti
Sitaraji, hope you will balance your 10 kids and 1000s of Sajhapur fan - for me got to go (NK - style - LOL)
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 16-Oct-02 02:59 PM
"Asking your son to accept 'college loan' for his medical studies in Atlanta is 'Good Americanized' even though you have plenty to give to your kids"
Should read like this:
Asking your son to accept 'college loan' for his medical studies in Atlanta is 'Good Americanized' even though you have plenty to give to your kids to teach 'Responsibility' and 'Accountability' - as a good parent you are always there to help if needed!!!!
|
| Soleil |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 07:47 AM
Just another point to ponder. If a person adheres to "Nepalipan", he/she will be tagged a "typcial stereo-typed Nepali" - Gaunle- Pakhe- without a doubt. As I have seen many times; most of our valuable Sajhaites have done that. I don't understand the fuss here about being Americanized.
|
| jamE bondS |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 08:01 AM
I don't think being americanized is a big deal if being americanized is doing things the american way. As they say, In Rome do as the Romans do.
I think we are confusing being americanized with 'trying hard' to become americanized. This 'wanna - be' americanized attitude is what puts me off. Specially the ones who try to sound american.
For example:
Trying to mimic American Accent so hard that the listener feels embarassed listening to you. Hagne lai bhanda dekhne lai laaj.
I know some ladies who try so hard to 'sound' american, I feel very much embarassed in their company. Ke ko thyas mane thyas ni. I suggest if you really are trying to sound american, ask your friends honestly how they feel about your accent.
Sometimes some of these people do get the accent right. But once in a while their Nepali accent comes in or their grammar gets screwed up, and boy can you see them turn red and start to perspire.
I've noticed that most of the time these gentlemen and ladies, have gone to a 'lesser' of schools. Not to name any names, but school in Nepal which were not of high caliber and ones that did not encourage the English language.
Once they come to the US, they try hard to sound american, while most people who went to good schools retain their own 'nepali' accents.
|
| Bathroomcoffee |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 10:21 AM
How about those wanna be hip hop kid at the Dasain Party ? I hate people speaking loud trying to sound like them(like you don't have an identity of your own). But you start a conversation and you cannot pass beyond "How you doin" part in English. And they are the very ones that go back home and add on a fake Amrican accent even while speaking good old Neapli.
|
| Poonte |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 10:54 AM
Bonds,
You sound almost discriminatory when you make the comparison between what you call "schools of high caliber" and the other "lesser" schools; and you certainly discriminated against women when you said, "I know some ladies who try so hard..." in your 4th paragraph.
I do not have any problems with WHATEVER accents that people come up with (include the wanna-be-someone accents too) as long as I can comprehend the message s/he is trying to convey to me--afterall, the purpose languages, in any accent, is communication, which, being served well, I am happy.
What I have tremendous problems with, though, is discrimination and stereotyping.
|
| jame bonds |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 11:04 AM
Poonte,
I don't think it's discriminatory to call some schools higher calibre. Haven't you seen US magazines that publish top 50 colleges. Don't tell me you call that discriminatory!
And I don't thing I'm discriminating the opposite sex when I say I know some ladies who do that. I just happen to know more ladies who do that. Remember that I am writing what I know from my personal experience.
If I made a blanket statement saying ladies do that, then, you could say I'm stereotyping. But when I say I know some girls who do that. I don't think I'm stereotyping.
In fact, I have tremendous problems with discrimination and stereotyping as well.
|
| Poonte |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 12:21 PM
James,
Ahem! (trying hard to be very polite, hai...)
Categorizing schools is not stereotyping, agreed indeed. However, you chose to stereotype that category by claiming the students from "lesser" schools tend to "Americanize" their accents more. I also sensed a negative connotation in your claim, some kind of a disgust at the students from those "lesser" schools because, as you claimed, they "try hard to sound American". Forgive me if I am wrong. Nevertheless, the point I was trying to make was that Nepali accent, American accent, trying-to-sound-American accent...why should it matter if it conveys the intended message properly?
About the ladies, I apoligize. I mistakenly excluded "some" from your sentence the first time I read it.
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 12:33 PM
As for me...
My English is just book knowledge, painstakingly compiled in the dhip dhipey mainbatti ko oojyalo!
My accent made in my school in Nepal; a "third world country"! It is NOT deletable!
My appearance, very Nepali; chance paye tha gunyu, cholo lagai chulthi pani banidintheyn....(.Teej style) but it is not very practical at the moment!
I think therefore I am!
I think Nepali therefore, I am Nepali!
The moment someone defects in their thinking of being a Nepali,...s/he is no longer one. The truth of this matter lies in the soul of the Nepali not in the accuser!
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 12:55 PM
What "defects in their thinking of being a Nepali" mean? Curious.
Defection.
Are we talking about Citizenship? exile? Allegiance/ affinity? I am reminded of Prasnachinna's lovely column.
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:01 PM
"defection" = "adopts a new country/language/culture.............with the intentions of disowning one's own roots"
This implied meaning has been used loosely to allude to "defecting" from "Nazi Germany by Germans" ; "Russions to US" during the cold war....blah blah!!!
Note the word "loose"
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:06 PM
how about defects in one's thinking?
I had to read it twice and finally understood it to be usable in BOTH SENSES! :)
I thought I was having a very very senior moment but I turned out to be a whiz!
geeeez!
now "loose"! hm Sitara Miss you've gotta stop this play on words :)!
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:08 PM
opppppps on second thoughts weren't we being hounded for being too americanized? hehe now wait till they think we're anglicized! Or is that too much on a tangent?
We shall see!
|
| jame bonds |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:13 PM
In my posting, I said SOME ladies do that. And out of this SOME ladies, MOST of them went to schools in Nepal which were not of high caliber.
If you sensed negative connotation in my observation of SOME people who try hard to want to sound like Americans, hey you have every right to do so. After all we're all expressing our own opinions here.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:27 PM
Even at times when American themselves are struggling to define what being an American is, we here in Sajhaland are trying to tell each other what kind of a Nepali is Americanized thus bad. Some say wearing a sari to eat at McDonald "does n ot make sense," and some other say trying to talk in fake American accent is Americanized thus bad and embarrassing(!), and yet other faction seem to think "thinking Nepali" is being non-Americanized therefore thoroughly good (?) - Must be since "Americanized Nepali" is unsavory. Indeed, how shallow thinking we do have! And, yet another cyber persona, james bonds comes with a whiff of elitist smugness and declares:
"I've noticed that most of the time these gentlemen and ladies, have gone to a 'lesser' of schools. Not to name any names, but school in Nepal which were not of high caliber and ones that did not encourage the English language.
Once they come to the US, they try hard to sound American, while most people who went to good schools retain their own 'nepali' accents. "[!!!!] [Exclamation marks are entirely mine, please note]
He goes on to clarify in his next posting that this is his personal observation. Well jame bonds, my friend, from my "personal experience" I have also noticed that all the people who goes by the name "jame bonds" are through and through Americanized!! (This "Americanized" is based on your definition of Americanized. I don't have my own definition yet.]
Wear a sari to go to disco or Denny's and wear a butt showing micro mini to a church or wear a burka to your work. Unless of course God herself has commanded that these Americanized or not enough Americanized are not allowed. [No, personally I do not believe in those gods who sit somewehre in cloud nine, drink som ras, and listen to some badly tuned harp] Or, if these places have a strict dress code and explicitly says that the renegade are subjected to lashing then they should be free to wear whatever the heck they want to wear. If they are comfortable wearing then let them be. Hip hop kids? Does freedom of expression rings a bell? That is what they choose to wear and WANT to be that day or that month or that year or rest of their lives. If they cannot speak English properly then their mothers should worry. Hopefully they will learn by the time they are out looking for a job. Maybe you yourself can teach them.
All I say is be what you can be. Just be (yourself). I am of the mind that conformity stifles you and chokes you. Labeling is bad whatever form or design it may come. We are supposedly in a free country but looking at these comments sometimes I think we are in some sort of cult where everybody should act and do according to some higher power.
All power to all those “Americanized” Nepali. I think only you know and have the guts to show how confusing and sometimes intimidating and startling to be in a foreign culture!
|
| jame bonds |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:42 PM
I think becoming Americanized is neither good nor bad. It's something that happens by living in America for long.
What I personally think is repulsive to some extent is some people FAKING being Americanized by FAKING American accent.
If you start getting an American accent after ten fifteen years, then it's only natural. BUT, if you've been in the US for 2 years or so and you try to have an American accent, I think that FAKING stupid.
If you fake American accent, you might dislike my observation. But i'm just saying you don't have to fake anything. Be proud of what you are. Don't be a wanna bee.
Just Be.
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:44 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen!
No matter how much you try/discuss/fight/scare/go tangent/be unhappy but it is bound to happen.
Whether we like it or not slowly we will become Americanized/Anglicized/Aussiezed (if there is a word like that).
If we try hard not to become, our kids will be. If we say to our kids 'over our dead body', our kid will not say that to their kids.
But, on the contrary we need not to be that worried because in Nepal they are loosing 'Nepalipan' in faster pace than we are gaining 'Americanpan'. So, stay on your course, all of Sajhaites are doing 'Just Fine'.
- iti
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 01:50 PM
I know generally what defection means, Sitara. I am interested in the nuances of cultural/national identity in the context of how a particular identity might be defined by the mainstream within that group.
Were the Germans who left Nazi Germany less German than those who stayed behind? or the Russian who left Russia? No. Defection or Exile does not necessarily mean turning your back on your roots. And neither does adopting a new country. Identity and alleigance does not seem to me an either or proposition. Legally obvious, that might be different when dual citizenship might not be an option.
As to being called "Americanized"... that is always such a gaali, even when people think they complimenting you. For example, some American friends in Nepal once told me I was "Americanized" for speaking my mind and speaking it well. I was NOT flattered! As if!
And those who try to be "Americanized" (and there are those) well, thats just dumb... because mostly it does not seem to mean emulating the worthwhile charateristics of what being "American" means - like cherishing freedom, democracy, equality, justice (I am not saying these are exclisively "American" characteristics ni pheri), but rather seems to mean copying some of the more unsavory things like consumerism, extreme individuality, glorification of gender and racial violence and hatred, promiscuity... and on and on.
Going back to the original posters post... reading Nepali is personally becoming harder by the day for me just because I don't read it much. Nothing to do with my being "Americanized" or less "Nepali".
je hos........... sano kura ko kasto chal phal:)
|
| koko |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 02:18 PM
Its all a matter of perception. How you see it. The person trying to project the accent might be oblivious to your observation. Its the same thing when different ethnic groups in Neapl have different accents in Nepali too. Rai Limbu's don't speak like Newars and Sherpa don't speak like Bahuns. But that does not make anyone a less better person or more. It all depends upon the way YOU see it. Its ok to try and speak like Americans but its a whole new thing if you are totally being all flaky about it.
|
| Hellbound |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 04:00 PM
How do you determine if one’s getting Americanized? In most cases, you simply judge one’s Americanism by looking at how his/her accent is, whom he/she hangs out with, how he/she dresses up, and what he/she eats. Say for instance, Mr Prad, who only hangs out in American parties with bunch of hippies and always stay away from Nepalese community, is referred to as Americanized. Ms. Tina, who’s been in the US for only two years, tries to talk with American accent, she’s summoned as Americanized girl. Is this how we supposed to identify if we are Americanizing?
It’s so typical that one tends to mingle with his/her surrounding atmosphere, especially language, custom, and culture. NK mentions " American themselves are struggling to define ‘Americanization’ ”. I agree to the fact that there’s no particular litmus test for Americanization.
Throughout the entire 19th Century, North America exerted a powerful attraction on the people of densely populated Europe. Ethnically, the USA had become a mirror of Europe. Between 1820 and 1920, no less than 33.3 million people settled in the USA. By 1900, the USA was a colorful mixture of nations. The new immigrants had other customs, other languages, other ways of thinking, other religions, and other skills. The nationality issue suddenly became a problem. Even the most superficial observer had to see the danger of a racial mosaic within the nation's boundaries. Many occupations were practically monopolized by individual nationalities. In the housing industry by 1910, for example, the Irish did the excavation, the Germans the rough construction, the Italians the interior work, Native Americans the plumbing and the Jews the painting. The most basic areas demonstrated the disunity of the USA. The problem of Americanization was clear. Seriousness, in the beginning, behind the FAILURE OF AMERICANIZATION was not recognized. People assumed that the environment would encourage unity and settled for economic equality. Immigrants had to adapt to the environment at least outwardly to avoid unnecessary difficulties.
More later!!!
Hell
|
| czar |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 07:02 PM
The Irish were the cops, and quite often, the law breakers given their penchant for drinking and brawling. (A movie that examines a small part of this due at Christmas this year: The Gangs of New York)
The Native Americans were the scaffolding experts. The apparent ease with which they scale dizzying heights meant they were the people who laid out those cross beams and put up the skeleton of the empire state building.
Today, many a native american reservation will find tall steel poles set up where youngsters play and develop these skills that serve them well later. As they setup the cross beams and girders, 80 stories off the ground !
Then there is their contribution to military service and their near unbreakable code during WWII. No one on this planet speaks Cheyenne save their tribe !! ('The Wind Talkers' I think, with Nicholas Cage, released earlier this year)
Incidentally, one of those Irish gangs in New York were the Hellhounds too I think and their nemesis were the Ducks.
You spin a good yarn Hell, so keep going. Or be prepared to be hounded !
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 07:04 PM
Hellbound ji
Another angle to "Once upon a time in America"....nice I must say!
To continue your point.... and about schooling/education:
The concept of "Americanization" was supposed to be unified under the education system of USA. The US education system was set up to push the concept of "United We Stand...." hence the pledge of allegiance...indivisible...with liberty and justice for all. The Patriotic Blah blah was to protect the new world from England, France...and other European countries...This, a direct consequence of the independence war with England! Has it succeeded? nope! The diversity in the US has just served to confuse the whole issue due to differences in opinions, culture, language, social norms, status, class,...
As for the education and schools in Nepal, regardless of the "higher" "lower" "better" or "worser" tags, the system was/is set up to fit the Colonial era! Colonization took over and established a system of creating an elite group of people to prolong the life of educational colonization. Although, Nepal claims to have never been colonized... she and her people "suffer" from indirect colonization from England. Hence, the popularity of " English boarding Schools" to produce a select population who fit into carrying on the hierarchy of the colonial countries. A tendency to create a class who believe and know that learning the dominant language will help them fit into a "larger" society. With some attention to details "we" can see the tendency of being labeled Anglophile, Francophile.....etc!
France colonized the education systems of some countries in Africa: Cameroon, Senegal...., some in Asia: vietnam;.... England: Nigeria.. most Carribean Islands, Indian Subcontinent... Japan: Taiwan..; Italy:....Ethopia,... Erythria (sp?)... And so on...to mention a few. In in their wake, the dominant countries have left a trail of confusion, identity crisis and civil war. The partition of India and Pakistan is such an example!
so.... if we for a minute think that we have not been affected/influenced by the dominant education system, we are in denial! We are all a product of our society...and our society which hankers after a "western" education produces people like us who can speak, write and talk in English!
There is a heartrending song sung in Africa : "Je Te Plumerai" ( I will pluck or fleece you). The French "national anthem" of the process of colonization... A satirical song to a Lark. "I will pluck you, I will skin you, I will break you......." Not that we are "suffering" from such a devastating effect of direct colonization...However,...
As for being Americanized.... I am sure we have all heard of the McDonald's, Starbucks, coke....... popularity!!!! And let us not forget MTV and Beatles mania.....!!!
And oh Sharma ji,
I hope this, answers your question in a round about theory-baddha way! Or are you still STUCK on speculating upon Sitara's "BACKGROUND"/education??????
|
| czar |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 07:23 PM
In Amrika, ...
U never "mess-up" things, U only "screw them up."
U don't stop at the "signals," but halt at the "lights."
There R no "petrol pumps," just "gas stations."
U no longer meet a "wonderful" person, U meet a "cool" guy
There R no "soft drinks," only "sodas or pop"
Life's no longer "miserable," it "stinks."
U don't "sweat it out," U "work U'r butt off."
U don't stand in a "queue," you are in a "line."
U R not "deaf," U have "impaired hearing."
U R not "lunatic," U are just "mentally challenged."
U R not "disgusting" U R "sick."
U can't get "surprised" U get "zapped."
U never ask for a pencil "rubber" U ask for an eraser...a rubber is a condom!!!! ??? !!!
U don't ask somebody "How r u ?", U say "What's up dude?"
If U see "World" champions (or Series), read "USA" champions (or Series).
If someone gets angry at U, they get "pissed" at U.
You do not say " He is a trouble maker," rather u say "He's a pain in my ass" !
U drive your car on the Parkway, and park on the Driveway.
Well, u don't say life is boring u say LIFE SUCKS !!!!!
In short U don't speak English, U speak American !!
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 07:26 PM
Wrong thread CZAR....
Go to "only in America..."
;)
|
| dirk |
Posted
on 17-Oct-02 09:31 PM
Czar....you don't say "that was quite marvelous, old chap".....you say "Right On, Dude, it was awesome"
|
| Soleil |
Posted
on 18-Oct-02 06:34 AM
And duuuuuude! it was awesome, indeed!. hehehehehee. Dat was raaaaaaaaaaaaad!
tara mero gobre buddhi ma kuro chahi patakka chirena ho. Hana yo Amrika vs Ne-Paul ko war ho ki kya ho? Ki Jihaad nai chhedna lagya ho? Hey Cetamol khalti ko ghau, jati nai tarka bitarka diye pani aakhir gorkhay ko purano ukhaan satya:
"Wori pari ghumaayo, maajh ma thwaak!"
Peace
|
| Nhuchche |
Posted
on 18-Oct-02 06:40 AM
Looking forward to getting Americanized.
|
| Nhuchche |
Posted
on 18-Oct-02 06:41 AM
Forgot to add that this was the scene at the Post Office in Kathmandu of people mailing thier DV Application. Photo from nepalnews.com
|
| Rusty |
Posted
on 18-Oct-02 11:04 AM
I couldn’t resist myself from posting in this thread:)
Sitara finally seemed to be grasping the subtle point of ‘Americanization’. I see people misconstruing the terminology. I agree to the fact that there’s no litmus test for one’s Americanization in this multicultural society because the concept of “Americanization” is still obscure and Americans are still juggling up with it to define.
The concept can be narrowed down in this unrestrained thread. Sitara mentioned that the concept of "Americanization" was supposed to be unified under the education system of USA. Looking back to the US history, the term used to describe the movement during the first quarter of the last century, whereby the immigrant in the US was induced to assimilate American speech (not the accent!), ideals, traditions, and ways of life. As a result of the great emigration from Europe between 1880 and the outbreak of World War I, the Americanization movement grew to crusading proportions. As Latin, Jewish, and Asian immigrants swelled the populations of American cities, many industrialists and government officials developed growing concerns about the revolutionary potential of immigrant workers. Fear and suspicion of the newcomers and of their possible failure to become assimilated gave impetus to the movement. When the US entered into the war, Americanization was made an official part of the war effort. Many states passed legislation providing for the education and Americanization of the foreign-born. Large rallies, patriotic naturalization proceedings, and Fourth of July celebrations characterized the campaign of Americanization. Hence, the movement of Americanization was basically for educational purpose to the new comers.
What I see here in Sajha is that the concept of ‘Americanization’ is getting mingled with whatever the terminology best describes ‘the adaptation of another culture’. Enculturation?? Sitara mentioned the term somewhere in this thread, which means ‘getting into the thick of another culture and adapting it (not necessarily adopt).’ I don’t have lots of concept about these sociology terms, but the bottom line is that the originator of this thread may be suffering from 'enculturation' (borrowed word!). He has been living in the US for so long that he’s acclimatized with his surrounding atmosphere, and become uncomfortable with his own native scripts bit-by-bit. One cannot summon him as an Americanized Nepali. The same thing is true when someone ‘tries’ to speak with American accent, regardless of how long he/she stayed in the US. In my opinion, trying to adopt other’s culture/custom/language is not a bad thing unless we don’t forget our cultural root.
Bhul chuk bhaye maaf!!!
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 18-Oct-02 11:52 AM
wow, Rusty ji,
I must say.... you certainly have the historical facts on the education system and its purpose in US... Pretty impressive hajur!
:)
|
| Bitchpatroll |
Posted
on 18-Oct-02 12:04 PM
What is Americanized ?
What does it mean to Americans and what it means to Neapli people is like talking about apples and oranges. It is two totally two dirfferent topics.
Change in life is inevitable, it happens all the time. Social, cultural, economic, you name it you go into any field you will witness changes taking place all the time.
Now the question that we have to ask here is..was it a natural change or was it forced upon, or self invented ? If it is the latter two that that could have a totally negative impact upon the observant. But if it is natural then people will not even notice it.
|
| Soleil |
Posted
on 19-Oct-02 07:18 AM
Hyaa katti halla gari ra bhanya......jati bhuke ni taar tamya lagne bhaye ni euta kuro.....
I don't know what is the exact meaning of the term Americanized, nor do I care if I am being Americanized. To me, everybody, all of us, who went to school and learned the very first alphabets : ABCs; we were spontaneously Americanized, or Anglicized to some of you. So, what's the big ordeal? And, some of us here in Sajha are, I believe, in dillusion, though they take pride to be Nepalese, hence show their prejudice by barking in the so called Americanized language (English).
Nepali Dog's English Bark? (Nepali Kurkurko belayeti ghukai?)
Lau ta keta keti ho, bhukera matra mukh ma maad lagdaina kyaare..ki kaso? Mam ko tarkhar ma lagen ma ta.
Peace
|
