| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 02-Nov-02 12:25 AM
Hi all,
If any of you are serious tournament-level debaters (at either high-school or college-level; that is, debaters at the 'varsity level', so to speak, competing against other
school on touranaments), then, I seek your advice.
The format of the debate could be: extemporaneous or prepared.
I seek your advice because some friends and I want to LEARN how debate tournaments are actually organized -- what the scoring processes are, how topics are chosen and given to participants, how the rebuttal and counter-arguments are given in an organized manner, how who goes to finals/semi-finals are determined and so on and on.
Next year, in 2003, at some point, some of us in Nepal are interested - either through the GAA or through some other organization -- in putting our heads together to organize either a high-school level or a college-level Debate Tournament in Kathmandu , and run the tournament fairly and openly and widely, as, well, volunteers.
The rationale behind hosting a Debate Competition/Tournament is simple:
PREMISE: Democracy requires articulate, informed citizens.
ASSUMPTION:
IF
young citizens (high school and collegelevel students) are exposed to the world of ideas, arguments, counter-arguments, the process of finding evidence, defending and challenging beliefs TODAY (with apropriate hype in the media and so on),
THEN
they are more likley to grow up to be the kind of citizens who will appreciate democracy, the kind of citizens tomorrw's Nepal needs all the more.
EXPERIMENT:
Make debate tournaments popular among the young in Nepal, by starting one, and have that replicate, over time, in Nepal in English and Nepali languages.
RESULT:
[Sure, it's almost impossible to come up with a causality with statistically valid attribution, but you get the point.]
By reading this posting, if others too want to host debate tournaments in Kathmandu or elsewhere, then, that's great. The more the merrier.
That said, my original question:
If any of you are serious tournament-level debaters (at either high-school or college-level; that is, debaters at the 'varsity level', so to speak, competing against other
school on touranaments), or if you know anyne who's a serious "organized debater" then, I seek your advice on the TECHNICAL apects of hosting a debate tournament.
Please post your thoghts here or email me via sajha network (sorry that email was not working for some time in October.]
A very happy Tihar to all of you.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| ashu |
Posted
on 03-Nov-02 07:18 PM
Hi all,
I have given UP on Nepal's current King and our CWC-obeying and petty and corrupt political netas to safeguard the basic PLURALISM of Nepali democracy.
The Maoists, with their black-and-white "either you are with us or you are against us and we'll kill you" idea, are not for democracy either.
Intellectuals and columnists continue to churn out tepid, safe, easy and even
specious arguments to suport or oppose democracy.
If this is the case, where then does the hope for democracy lie?
I see hope in Nepal's millions of youngsters -- people in their teens and 20s and maybe even 30s . . . if only some of us devoted some time to expose our young to the art of debating, the art of doing an OPEN INQUIRY . . . a SMALL but important contribution will be made to promote whatever bits of democratic values in our society.
I myself got this idea while reading George Soros's biography sometime ago.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
**************
How Debating Helps Develop Democracy
By Alfred C. Snider *
November 15, 2000
BURLINGTON, VT. -- If this past presidential campaign and ensuing electoral furor has reminded us of nothing else, it's that Americans love a good debate. We insist that our presidential candidates engage in such verbal face-offs. Indeed, debating has practically become a requirement to run for any political office.
We love to watch political pundits going at it head to head, debating over every conceivable issue. It sometimes seems as if there is nothing else on cable television than talking heads having at each other.
We sometimes worry, in fact, that we may have become too argumentative. But amid this saturation coverage, what's often forgotten is what a powerful and important tool debating has been in shaping our society.
Around the world, emerging democracies are anxious to reach the level of critical discourse we frequently take for granted. At a recent conference in Budapest, debate organizers and teachers from over twenty nations complained about the political and social structures still in place in their homelands that prevent such open dialogues from occurring.
The culture of debating often appears first in academia, yet many of these conference participants complained that institutions of higher learning in their homelands continue to see student passivity and professorial authority as the basis for learning. Teachers who instruct their students in how to debate are often criticized by their colleagues.
These international debaters reminded us that in much of the world, adults feel uneasy about young people asking so many questions and arriving at different conclusions than their elders. Open dispute over issues of public policy can make citizens and government officials alike somewhat uncomfortable.
Yet, because it plays such a critical role in academic, political and social development, efforts are under way to institute debating programs and opportunities in nations around the world, from Albania to Uzbekistan. Initially introduced by philanthropist George Soros's Open Society Institute, debates are becoming steadily integrated into academic institutions, as well as social and political life.
These efforts have helped the culture of debating to take root even in some of the least hospitable environments imaginable. In Yugoslavia, for example, Vedran Vucic began a debate program in the early 1990's and found that, even in a climate rife with authoritarian rule and ethnic division, tolerant and serious debating was a popular activity.
Youth debating clubs quickly sprang up around the country and became one of the few venues where young people from all ethnic groups could come together in an atmosphere of goodwill. Tournaments were held in Serbian, Hungarian, Albanian and English languages. Residential summer programs attracted students and debate teachers from all parts of an otherwise divided society.
By 1998, a westerner like myself could be found lecturing at a law school in Belgrade. I gave a presentation on argumentation and persuasion and had the chance to visit various debate clubs around the country. By that summer, Yugoslav students and their coaches were attending the World Debate Institute at the University of Vermont.
While the war over Kosovo last year obviously put an end to such international exchanges, the seeds of debating had taken root. This was witnessed by the fact that public debating, including a series exploring the Serbian role in ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, resumed once the bombing stopping.
So it should have come as no surprise that it was the debaters and their teachers who were among the first up the steps of the parliament building in Belgrade earlier this month as former President Slobodan Milosevic was toppled from power. Nor should it be a surprise that it was those trained in the art of debating who finally convinced the security forces to hand over their helmets and truncheons and join with the people. Their arguments had finally prevailed.
The transformative and illuminating power of critical thinking, open discussion and informed debate is too often taken for granted in societies like our own. Yet, our social and political existence depend on those very qualities.
Alfred C. Snider is the Edwin W. Lawrence Professor of Forensics at the University of Vermont in Burlington, Vt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2000 New York University. All Rights Reserved. The Global Beat Syndicate, a service of New York University's Center for War, Peace, and the News Media, provides editors with commentary and perspective articles on critical global issues from contributors around the world. For more information, check out http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/syndicate/.
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| aeiou |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 09:55 AM
isn't the problem that there are too many debators and too few action-takers?
a ni ra swa bi yu and ne bi sangh are packed with debators, no?
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 10:06 AM
No, actions are over-rated in Nepal.
The culture of holding an open, no-holds-barred, honest-to-goodness discussions/debates is NOT here yet. People are very quick to take offence, hold grudges and may end up ridiculing the other side if someone dares to ask
uncomfortable questions.
Hence, we have all these usual seminars, gosthis, conferences in Kathmandu. . .
where the same old handful of people say the same things over and over again . . . without facing much of a challenge . . . and so it goes, on and on.
The King took an action recently WITHOUT much of a debate/discussion.
The political parties do their discussions/debates BUT they talk past one another,
and not talk to one another.
Surely, as George Soros has done in Eastern Europe, it's time to introduce -- slowly
but surely -- forms of organized debate to Nepal's young people as a small, small contribution to safeguard tomorrow's democracy.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
The Janata
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| Deep |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 10:18 AM
Nepalma bya (at least atit ka) ra debate ko ustai ustai standing chha.
You act first then debate. (it hurts to debate first then act). After the act,either you spend most of your debate on defending what you did or say "nahunu bhaisakyo aba je bho tyasailai milara garnu parchha."
ke milaune? now the answer of this also comes with an act without a proper debate then the act is followed by debate and "milara garne" idea.
Ashu's point sounds good. tyam lagchha tara bhareeeeee gara ramro kam lagchha jasto chha.
Sambho!
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| aeiou |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 10:20 AM
yea i see what you mean about the king and parties and everyone talking past each other. what about starting a "nonsense statement alert" so that every nonsense statement that public people make gets posted somewhere......will make for amusing reading anyway
good luck!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 11:08 AM
Unfortunately, we do not have versions of Late Night Comedy on television (a la Leno, Letterman or O' Brian) in Nepal to skewer/fry the politicians and others for their silly, inane and even insane remarks that they utter day in and day out.
Chatyang Master -- who runs his own humor program on Radio Sagarmatha FM 102.4 -- comes close, but that's about it.
Until then, the only long short-cut, so to speak, is to be patient for even years while continue to do everything one can do to push, push and push the culture of informed debate, the culture of open inquiry, te culture of asking and tolerating difficult/uncomfortable question in and among younger Nepalis.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:04 PM
Ashuji, I think you are taking two of the important action items in grass root level. Your business forum and this debate context in School/College level. It is really marvellous idea which will have profound long term effect.
In India most of the well-funded Universities have an yearly festival where they invite participants from Universities/High School from all over the country. During week long (or 3/4 days) festival participants show off their talents in Exptempore debates/ prepared debates, drama, group/individual talents show, photograpny/arts. I also had chance to represent my Universitiy in some areas. It is great opportunity to enhance your leadership skills. (BTW: This is great time to meet Talented boys/girls too! I am sure if Nepal had such festivals Paschimji would have been HOOKED long time back ...ha ha ha!!!)
Anyway, to give some pointers to you, let me tell you if you really want your ideas to take off very effectively (Nepal does not have time to progress as India or US had, we need to do everything swiftly and effectively, fast - JK) you need to get some professionals who will guide your efforts. And, there are lots of good professionals in big Indian cities, I think you could search in Google and get some lead.
You could invite those experts (who would not only guide the process but will act as judges during the debates) - by offering them 'Foreign Tourism' in Nepal (just ideas...). If you really approach them nicely/diplomatically they may come to Kathmandu happily if you provide them at least travel and room and board expenditure.
I hope I could give exact names and numbers, but, if you think this is what you want to take up, then I may be able to pull some strings from my 'Long Lost Friends' in India.
- iti
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| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:16 PM
BTW: Just got another idea. You should really think of participating in one of those Indian Universities festivals for obvious reasons.
Let me tell you duirng our time the hot Universities close to Nepal would be:
- BE Shibpur, Calcutta
- IIT Kharagpur
- ISM Dhanbad
They have tons of information in their websites and I am more than confident that they will be happy to take up the contingent from Nepal (it is honor for them), and during that time you should also talk to all those experts and ask them how you could you arrange such things in Nepal.
Most of these festivals are in Spring time, so, even if you are late in applying you can go as an 'observer' and you will be ready for 2003 in Nepal.
To add spice in Nepalese Inter Collegiate festivals you should invite top Indian Universities.
Oh my God! I am already excited..........I am telling you all the Nepalese youth will wait for this day whole year, and instead of taking arms they will head to the libraries all year long....
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 07:34 PM
Logical sense,
Thank you for your excellent ideas and suggestions.
Yes, going to India next spring to observe how Indian university/students conduct their debate tournaments sounds like a good idea.
After Tihar, after a short meeting with my friends who are also interested in organizing such a debate tournament, I will contact you for more details and advice.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| aeiou |
Posted
on 04-Nov-02 11:39 PM
in my experience village people have the most colourful language and interesting way of expressing themselves. the very stiff language used in formal newspapers, debate, etc. is not so interesting. but it is what the "educated" people speak. maybe that will change if the debate forum encourages people to speak in their own voice, not mimiking gorkha patra etc.
again--good luck.
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| login |
Posted
on 05-Nov-02 05:43 AM
A remarkable thought and effort Ashu. My sincere best wishes to you and all the people who are committed in making a difference.GoodLuck!!
-LoGiN
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| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 05-Nov-02 04:24 PM
Ashuji anytime. I would be more than happy to be part of it.
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| M.P. |
Posted
on 05-Nov-02 04:58 PM
Ashu, the man of words,
Good luck with this great project. Heard about your remarkable contribution to "Bichalit Bartaman." Just remember that you are not alone in your great endeavors.
Who says one person can not make a difference?
Oohi Sojho
MP.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Nov-02 08:03 AM
M.P.
Thanks for your words.
It's a lot of fun to come up with ideas (even if it means BORROWING some of those ideas from other places) in Nepal.
But it's a lot MORE fun and a lot more satisfying to then spend some time puttng together a fist-class team of diverse/dissimilar Nepalis and then being an effective
catalyst for that team to accomplish its goals -- slowly but surely. Though NOT an
artist myself, this was the kind of small role I was able to play for the success of
Bichalit Bartaman, which involved lots of people and organizations.
On a larger note, having much, much to learn, this is what I am trying to learn in
Nepal: how to work effectively with or even, on a small scale, to lead people from DIVERSE/DISSIMILAR backgrounds so that we can put our differences aside and we
can all then go on to accomplish our commonly-viewed goals as, well, motivated, energetic and focussed volunteers.
The challenge lies in the learning process, and that keeps me busy. :-)
Good to know that I am not alone in ventures like this.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Nov-02 08:06 AM
first-class and NOT fist-class :-)
I have an old keyboard and some of the letters occasionally jam up. :-(
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| shukla |
Posted
on 06-Nov-02 02:36 PM
Ashu,
This thread regarding debating competetion in Nepal brings back a lot of memory.
A long, long time ago, when I was still a teenager (over 30, may even be 35 year ago), there was an intercollegiate debate competetion in Kathmandu. I forgot who organized it, most probably British Council, could be USIS.
You know who won the first prize?: the then Prince Gyanendra (representing Patan College). It may look like a fix, but I thought he truly deserved it, but then what did I know?
The topic was something like" Juvenile delinquency is rapidly increasing in Nepal" , and the Prince was for the proposition. This was all almost 35 years ago! As the French saying goes " more things change, more they remain the same"!
Another memory: a few years before this event, we had organized a Kathmandu Valley High School Debate Competition. The topic was" The current education system is suitable for Nepal". I won the first prize and Madhu Ghimire, now a physician, won the second prize (both representing JP High School). This was a daring subject to talk about when Panchayat had just started. Thank God we were not arrested!!!! Instead, the then Prime Minister Surya Bahdur Thapa gave me a gold medal!! I still have it.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Nov-02 07:43 PM
Shukla-ji,
Many, many thanks for sharing your memories.
It's very, very interesting -- and somewhat ironic -- to learn that the then Prince Gyanendra was a debating champion.
Also, the fact that Surya B. Thapa was the PM, even in those days . . . some people never retire from politics, do they?
That said, it is sad that somewhow, due to various factors, this sort of OPEN high-school or the college-level debate tournaments do not take place in Kathmandu anymore.
Still, not to worry, some of my friends and I are interested in re-starting this sort of tournament and then institutionalizing it so that this sort of events take place in Kathmandu (and maybe elsewhere in Nepal too) later, even WITHOUT us.
Again, thank you for your participation on sajha, Shukla-ji.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Biruwa |
Posted
on 06-Nov-02 09:56 PM
Speech contest among school children is also a good idea. The school kids go to another institute and then then speak a pre-decided speech. This speech may come from an existing literary work of some great author or some article by a writer.
Needless to say this will help them to develop their speaking ability in a crowd. Democracy needs ppl with such ability but our school does do such activities.
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