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| Username | Post |
| paramendra | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:04 PM
Do The Madhesis Need To Prove Their Loyalty To Nepal? Everyone who lives in the Terai is a Teraiwasi. The term Madhesi more accurately describes the Terai natives. This thread is a spin-off of another thread that has veered off from its subject into obscure territories, and I thought it better that a new thread be started. Statement:The cards are stacked against the Madhesis in Nepal. I strongly believe that to be the case. Do you agree? Do you disagree? If you agree, what solutions would you like to propose? It has been my experience at this site and before that there is a strong feeling of denial to that reality of prejudice: hamee sabai Nepali. We are not hamee-sabai-Nepali in our dealings, but we bring up the slogan when someone raises his or her voice against the prevalent injustice. And people routinely resort to personal attacks in their attempts to "shut" you up. It is another thing that they do not succeed, but that aspect of the discussion can not be ignored. It is there, and it is unpleasant. And the silence of the "good people" is deafening. And now this whole loyalty issue has come up. So if someone speaks against injustice, against the existing reality of exclusion, that person is being disloyal? What exactly is that loyalty to? To the status quo of injustice? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:09 PM
For reference: the original thread I make mention of.... |
| Tranquiller | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:14 PM
Interesting topic: The cards are stacked against the Madhesis in Nepal. Is it your way, or other way: Madhesis in nepal have stacked the cards agaist rest of the Nepali people??? I utterly disagree on your statement even though I am not a racist. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:17 PM
"Madhesis in nepal have stacked the cards agaist rest of the Nepali people..." Please elaborate and explain what you mean. |
| Tranquiller | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:25 PM
parmendra The statement is self-explanatory. Do I need any elaboration? I don’t think so…. |
| Biruwa | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:29 PM
Paramendra, It is interesting that you should bring this issue to sajha land :) You obviously don't know your stuff. Madhesis is a term to describe the people who live in Madesh. So just as not all tarai is not madesh so not all terai baasis are madeshis. For one, you definitely have to prove your loyality because of your mixed blood. Now I am not trying to talk to you in a derogatory manner. But you did say that your mum is indian. |
| batauli | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:44 PM
Paramendra, Does it ever occur to you that maybe YOU are stacking the cards against yourself on behalf of all the Maithili speaking South Asian Terai Wasi Madhesis? And time and again you ask for elaborations. Mr Paramendra, you do not respond to others (particularly mine) comments, and narrow down the scope of discussion to suit your agenda.. and want elaborations.. What is this, a college term paper....? Do The Madhesis Need To Prove Their Loyalty To Nepal? No, no and No... Everyone who lives in the Terai is a Teraiwasi. The term Madhesi more accurately describes the Terai natives. No one is discounting this. This thread is a spin-off of another thread that has veered off from its subject into obscure territories, and I thought it better that a new thread be started. Okay.... Statement:The cards are stacked against the Madhesis in Nepal. Please elaborate... Also see my response above... I strongly believe that to be the case. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Why do you so strongly believe that to be the case ? I don't. If it has been your personal experience, then I too could say the same for myself. But I don't see anyone doing anything (socio-politically) to stack cards against any particular ethnicity. How about fielding a NSP candidate from Jumla Humla... If you agree, what solutions would you like to propose? Mr Paramendra, you are not looking for solutions.. You are just looking for everyone to say "bichara... madhesis".. It has been my experience at this site and before that there is a strong feeling of denial to that reality of prejudice: hamee sabai Nepali. We are not hamee-sabai-Nepali in our dealings, but we bring up the slogan when someone raises his or her voice against the prevalent injustice. You are not "hamee-sabai-Nepali' because according to you Nepali is a club for Nepali speaking folks from around the world... and you choose to exclude yourself. And people routinely resort to personal attacks in their attempts to "shut" you up. It is another thing that they do not succeed, but that aspect of the discussion can not be ignored. It is there, and it is unpleasant. And the silence of the "good people" is deafening. Have you been "shut" up? Keeping your personal feelings and experiences aside, you don't have a valid point here. Obviously some ppl would like to hear less of same old arguments from you because it seems for you.. euta kaan bata bhitra arko kaan bata bahira. And now this whole loyalty issue has come up. So if someone speaks against injustice, against the existing reality of exclusion, that person is being disloyal? What exactly is that loyalty to? To the status quo of injustice? Mr. Paramendra, you created that exclusionary clause.. you choose to exclude yourself.. Who or what you want to identify yourself with is your personal choice.. but when you make pawns of all the madhiseys to advance your agenda, then I think the peoople you so passionately represent want some loyalty from you... batauli |
| gbncorg | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 01:59 PM
paramendra, Shodesh ko Madhesi ki Bidesh ko Madhesi ???? Shodesh ko Madhesi does not need to show any proof, but Bidesh ko Madhesi...........I don't know...... |
| wy | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 02:09 PM
ParamendraJi: I don't know why you ask these questions. You do seem to have all the answers. I am from the Madhes too; actually a few generations; and I am of Pahari origin. Actually, some of my friends of non-paharia madhesi origins do resent the fact that many UP and Bihari Bharatiyas cross the border and take away jobs from the Teraibasis. Do you favor closing the India/Nepal border and implement some sort of passport system? |
| wy | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 02:14 PM
The reason I ask this question is that many non-pahari madhesis do not go to India for a similar type of job opportunities. Generally, those venturing out to the lands of Lahure are the ones from the pahar. So closing the borderwill affect the paharis more than the Terai madhesis. It will certaintly bring some inconvenience for the borderbasis. Still, do you favor closing the border to protect our Teraibasis from job losses caused by those competing Bihari andUP bhaiyas? |
| wy | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 02:45 PM
Now, speaking of the maltreatment of the mdhises (Paramendra's definition), I will agree to you that, yes there is this Ye Madhise mentality. But, the places that I have lived have also seen people who have gradually climed the ladders and are doing quite well socially and economically: business communities, farmers, lawers, and teachers. I have also witnessed quite often the treatment of the madhises of the lower strata by the same upper class madhises and they get treated pretty rough. I am not saying that everything is hunkydori. The other issue I would like to throw at you is also that not until recently many bordertown school children used to chant "Janagana mana adhinayak.." and "hamara rstrapati is Rajendra prasad hai." And, I myself used an atlas that had Everest located in India and the teacher did not bother to correct it. I know, I know, we have moved way beyond all this. But, I still ask you the following question: Will you support implementing a passport system? Do you support amending the Sugaili Sandhi? Are you willing to fight for a better deal for our hydro treaties with India? Would you fight to get an unhindered passage to Bangladesh from the East (which is only a few KM)) |
| Dhotee | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 02:51 PM
Oye Paramendra Babu aap ki jay ho, Wah wah aa aapnay kya kamal kar diya...dhotee fad kay rumal kardiya Aap yek hi to ho jo humlog ko ka baat samaj tay ho. Hum aap ko duwa daytay hai ke aap ko pradhan mantri ka seat melay. Aaap ka ohi Khalee sisi aur alu piyaz babuwa, Dhotee |
| nayabato | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 03:07 PM
What an inquisition…I think the subject is deprived or linked to the one about castism..however every reader must own up that they probably grew up with the term.. Hey madheis lok, bhari bok Yeak paise dinchhu Mayro khhota dhoke It still reverberates in my ear… and to this day it is still heard around Nepal I must have been oblivious to the fact that people living in terai where madheis? I still don’t believe it but then in a country where if you do not Arian, most likely you will be called bhhotay, its not surprising My perception was that it was the migrant workers who had been labelled with this unique brand However I always have respect for them for they working hard, collecting plastic, old metal, bottles, selling fruits, fish and other various items to sell to the stupid and ignorant neapllis….yes I love Nepal but the people there can be bhaydas…not knowing the fact just because someone else is more innovative, more determined.. what kind of society is it when one cannot marry another from different? Or cannot touch the lower castes..like the ones who collect the rubbish..clean the street..are they any lesser than the average nepali? Are the higher classes of neapli from the same league as the ones created by Hitler? Or are you so scared of admitting it? You have a king who obisouly is the man himself, the army the ss and the police the sa..what a set-up…...yes the ones who keep the uneducated apart in order for them to reap the benefits. Like civil rule determines…one who is born in the land has the right to call themselves nepali until another status is obtained and loses this right, if one obtains a nepali nagarita, then they also gain the right to call themselves nepali.. It is not the nepali society to brand medheis..bhotay etc, that right belongs to the ones within the caste not outside it. so the answer would be no..they do not have to prove it to anyone unless they are not from nepal..as for the solution well until the thinking and the small mindness of the religion is ousted then it will never be possible to solve the problem. |
| nayabato | Posted
on 04-Nov-02 03:19 PM
and dhotee ji aap indian hey ya nepali? qui ape ko hindi sirif aatahey? nepali log to nepali may lakhtay hai..hum to nepali ho ker bhi hindi may leknay para hu? qui? aap ko indian pm ka jarurat hey to indian patra layker khali jaya..na muhjko hindin pasdhen hey nor wusaka politics..yeah nepal ka baat ho ra ha hey....yehi to nepal ka barbadha ho raha hey wohi indian log ka 23rd state statement say..sab indian ko to hindi bhasa vi nai bholta hey..ingraji to chalta hey..dhtoee nam liya to aap ko indian samjay ga.. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 07:34 AM
"...How about fielding a NSP candidate from Jumla Humla... " My dream. What's wrong?
What can be done?
References:
|
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 07:36 AM
".....Do you favor closing the India/Nepal border and implement some sort of passport system? ..." Nepal got something similar in 1989 and did not like it. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 07:50 AM
"...I am from the Madhes too; actually a few generations; and I am of Pahari origin. Actually, some of my friends of non-paharia madhesi origins do resent the fact that many UP and Bihari Bharatiyas cross the border and take away jobs from the Teraibasis...." The Teraiwasis of Hills origin are of special interest to me. Folks, we accept your kind. People with your last names are half the MPs from the Terai. But can you imagine a Yadav winning an election from Baneshwar? The Nepali Speaking High Caste Male network benefits you, but works against he Madhesis: that is the difference. "...I have also witnessed quite often the treatment of the madhises of the lower strata by the same upper class madhises and they get treated pretty rough..." The Terai has plenty of its own social ills: casteism, sexism, the dowry system, Hindu-Muslim strife is some pockets. But that does not the discrimination against the Madhesis as a group any less true. "...recently many bordertown school children used to chant "Janagana mana adhinayak.." and "hamara rstrapati is Rajendra prasad hai.".." You must have crossed the border without realizing! "...? Do you support amending the Sugaili Sandhi? Are you willing to fight for a better deal for our hydro treaties with India? Would you fight to get an unhindered passage to Bangladesh from the East (which is only a few KM))....." (1) Yes, I would support the signing of a new treaty that reflects today's reality. (2) Absolutely. If I am in a position to. (3) Absolutely. The Madhesis are not fighting to be Indians. The struggle is to seek equality within Nepal for their kind, and claim Nepal for their own just like any other ethnic group. "..What an inquisition…I think the subject is deprived or linked to the one about castism..." "..I must have been oblivious to the fact that people living in terai where madheis? I still don’t believe it .." Still don't? |
| wy | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 10:08 AM
Paramendra wrote: "Recruit Madhesis in the army in an active way." Ask the Indian government do it. Why are they themsleves so interested in only those Pahari Bahadurs and not the Madhesi Yadavs? There must be some reasons. Paramendra wrote: ".....Do you favor closing the India/Nepal border and implement some sort of passport system? ..." "Nepal got something similar in 1989 and did not like it." You are asking everyone's opinion for whatever reason (class project?), so what is your own opinion? Is it so hard to say YES? Common Paramendra, try it. Paramendra wrote: "References: AVision For Nepal DefendingThe Sadbhavana MainstreamingSadbhavana (People's Review, 1999) " Oh pleeeease! You don't need to do it on every posting. Paramendra wrote: "...recently many bordertown school children used to chant "Janagana mana adhinayak.." and "hamara rstrapati is Rajendra prasad hai.".." You must have crossed the border without realizing! " Perhaps, I did, because those goddamn pillars keep moving, and for some strange reason they alywys seem to be north bound. How knows, they may be on a padyatra toward the holy Himalayas. Paramendra wrote: " "...? Do you support amending the Sugaili Sandhi? Are you willing to fight for a better deal for our hydro treaties with India? Would you fight to get an unhindered passage to Bangladesh from the East (which is only a few KM))....." (1) Yes, I would support the signing of a new treaty that reflects today's reality. (2) Absolutely. If I am in a position to. (3) Absolutely. " Good to hear it. So, if you ever decide to write a petition to the Indian leaders, count me in. Paramendra wrote: "A federal form of government. Five states. Eastern Terai, Western Terai, Eastern Hills, Western Hills, Kathmandu." I remember a long exchanges between you and someone else, I forgot. Nice attempt, Paramendra. But, do some more homework, before dividing the country so casually. |
| wy | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 10:21 AM
Paramendra: "...I am from the Madhes too; actually a few generations; and I am of Pahari origin. Actually, some of my friends of non-paharia madhesi origins do resent the fact that many UP and Bihari Bharatiyas cross the border and take away jobs from the Teraibasis...." "The Teraiwasis of Hills origin are of special interest to me. Folks, we accept your kind. People with your last names are half the MPs from the Terai. But can you imagine a Yadav winning an election from Baneshwar? The Nepali Speaking High Caste Male network benefits you, but works against he Madhesis: that is the difference. " Don't be selective, Paramendra. Adress the issue: what do you have to say about those Bihari and UP bhaiyas? Paramendra wrote: "...I have also witnessed quite often the treatment of the madhises of the lower strata by the same upper class madhises and they get treated pretty rough..." "The Terai has plenty of its own social ills: casteism, sexism, the dowry system, Hindu-Muslim strife is some pockets. But that does not the discrimination against the Madhesis as a group any less true. " Do you think it could well be the class (economics) issue as much as the color issue? How else would the Maoists be able to recuit an increasingly number of the Madhesis for their cause. Do you think, they are only doing it to fight against the invaders from the North (Paharis) or theare are some other issues too. Think about it, Paramendra. Don't be so narrow in your approach: anti-pahari. Your quest for truth will perhaps vastly improve. |
| wy | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 10:23 AM
Sorry, posting again: Paramendra: "...I am from the Madhes too; actually a few generations; and I am of Pahari origin. Actually, some of my friends of non-paharia madhesi origins do resent the fact that many UP and Bihari Bharatiyas cross the border and take away jobs from the Teraibasis...." Wy: "The Teraiwasis of Hills origin are of special interest to me. Folks, we accept your kind. People with your last names are half the MPs from the Terai. But can you imagine a Yadav winning an election from Baneshwar? The Nepali Speaking High Caste Male network benefits you, but works against he Madhesis: that is the difference. " Now, now, don't be selective, Paramendra. Adress the issue: what do you have to say about those Bihari and UP Bhaiyas? Paramendra wrote: "...I have also witnessed quite often the treatment of the madhises of the lower strata by the same upper class madhises and they get treated pretty rough..." Wy: "The Terai has plenty of its own social ills: casteism, sexism, the dowry system, Hindu-Muslim strife is some pockets. But that does not the discrimination against the Madhesis as a group any less true. " Do you think it could well be the class (economics) issue as much as the color issue? How else would the Maoists be able to recuit an increasingly number of the Madhesis for their cause. Do you think, they are only doing it to fight against the invaders from the North (Paharis) or theare are some other issues too. Think about it, Paramendra. Don't be so narrow in your approach: anti-pahari. Your quest for truth will perhaps vastly improve. |
| wy | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 10:25 AM
Sorry, discard the earlier postings:L I got it backward, I am in a hurry to get out of here. I apologize. wy: "...I am from the Madhes too; actually a few generations; and I am of Pahari origin. Actually, some of my friends of non-paharia madhesi origins do resent the fact that many UP and Bihari Bharatiyas cross the border and take away jobs from the Teraibasis...." Parm: "The Teraiwasis of Hills origin are of special interest to me. Folks, we accept your kind. People with your last names are half the MPs from the Terai. But can you imagine a Yadav winning an election from Baneshwar? The Nepali Speaking High Caste Male network benefits you, but works against he Madhesis: that is the difference. " Response: Now, now, don't be selective, Paramendra. Adress the issue: what do you have to say about those Bihari and UP Bhaiyas? wy wrote: "...I have also witnessed quite often the treatment of the madhises of the lower strata by the same upper class madhises and they get treated pretty rough..." param: "The Terai has plenty of its own social ills: casteism, sexism, the dowry system, Hindu-Muslim strife is some pockets. But that does not the discrimination against the Madhesis as a group any less true. " Response: Do you think it could well be the class (economics) issue as much as the color issue? How else would the Maoists be able to recuit an increasingly number of the Madhesis for their cause. Do you think, they are only doing it to fight against the invaders from the North (Paharis) or theare are some other issues too. Think about it, Paramendra. Don't be so narrow in your approach: anti-pahari. Your quest for truth will perhaps vastly improve. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 10:43 AM
parmendra, could you please post the thread on TND in which a prof. at Duke who also happened to be a Tarai basi just blew you into pieces? Didn't you have the same discussion on TND a few years ago? If I am not mistaken, you did and not many tarai-basis came to defend you. |
| KK_Rai | Posted
on 05-Nov-02 02:46 PM
Parmendra, I have been reading your posting for ages, Initially I thought they were thought provoking, but now I am bored to death by unending repetition. I especially like to respond your point about unequal representation. Well what about the overrepresentations in fields like teachers, health workers (including doctors)? I don’t have anything against all those mehtas , yadavs , jhas, working hard in small health posts in remote part of Nepal , infact I hail them .There are very few schools in Nepal where there are not any Jha Sir solving theorem 13 with SLC hopefuls, or Thakur Sir defining solution and solvent. Don’t go far-fetched with your age-old data , just look in the list of all the policemen killed by Maoist and notice all those bhagats , chaudharys , and sahas . I did not use to look the list in such way but your countless bickering made me too conscious about it . Not only that you will also find the substantial number of TERAIWASIS (parmendras definition) in the latest list with all those police officers with False certificates. By the how many of so-called teraiwasis line up to get into army or police ? For example SeTaMaGuRaLi are over represented in British Gurkha Regiment and believe me there is reason for this . (Will you cry for equal representation there too ??) Believe me most of those who are into Police or Army work really hard to get in. They don’t have any other ambition than getting into police or army. Or else who will wake up at 4 am in the winter morning to exercise . Similarly I have seen my so-called TERAIWASIS friends waking up at 4 am in the morning and Guess what they do .. Study .. So no surprises that most of them end up as something else than police and army . I am proud of them , they are serving our motherland , I am proud of Mehta working in the remote heath post at Terhathum , healing people ,delivering a baby and basically supporting our health system. I am proud of that jha sister who immunised me against polio , measles and tetanus , I am proud of Thakur sir who really taught me to like Math . I never have seen them as anything other than my country fellow . Only ones I resent are those high caste educated MADHESIS who for their own sleazy reason are fuelling this hatred fire,and make me think them as others . Hope you will exclude from this group !! By the way about Language … Since you agree Nepali should be taught as the second language .. Why cant it be the LINK language instead of Hindi ?. It will also better the link between Terai and the rest of kingdom ?? Just a thought … |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 12:09 PM
"...Ask the Indian government do it. Why are they themsleves so interested in only those Pahari Bahadurs and not the Madhesi Yadavs? There must be some reasons..." The Indians and the British do it because it is nice to have people who will die on your behahf. It is not about the people from Nepal being extra brave. It is about being mercenaries. The British sent the Gurkhas to the Folkland/Malvinas Islands. The Indians sent the Gurkhas to Sri Lanka. Frontline stuff. Are you proud of that? More Nepalis died than any men from any other non-warring nations in the two world wars. Are you proud of those deaths? Nepalis going abroad to die on behalf of foreign governments is no different from those who go or get sent to the brothels of Bombay. In both cases, bodies are being sold. As for the Madhesis and the Nepali Army: it is a country of the Madhesis as much as Pahades. And that's why. As simple as that. It is called equality under the law. "...Do you favor closing the India/Nepal border ..." Well, do you? Because I am not sure you do. All the raw deals you claim India has given Nepal were worked out by Pahade Nepalis, not by Madhesis. Take responsibility. "...So, if you ever decide to write a petition to the Indian leaders, count me in. .." I am not about to write petitions. Petitions on behalf of people who will not even engage in any meaningful dialogue for domestic justice? "...before dividing the country so casually..." Federalism is about decentralization. It is not about chopping off the country into pieces. Your metaphor is misplaced. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 12:16 PM
"...Adress the issue: what do you have to say about those Bihari and UP bhaiyas? .." The reason the Nepal Sarkar is against the passport system is because many many many more Nepalis work in India than Indians in Nepal. That is why the Pahade-dominated Nepal Sarkar is against work permits. "...Do you think it could well be the class (economics) issue as much as the color issue?.." Of course class is a factor. And it is not about color! Don't even go there. All Nepalis are brown, just different shades. And just because class is an issue does not mean regionalism is not. The Maoist insurgency has primarily been a hills phenomenon. The incidents in the Terai have been isolated and not systematic. A pro-Madhesi, pro-justice approach is not an anti-Pahadi approach. isolated freak: "Parmendra, could you please post the thread on TND in which a prof. at Duke who also happened to be a Tarai basi just blew you into pieces? Didn't you have the same discussion on TND a few years ago? If I am not mistaken, you did and not many tarai-basis came to defend you." That is not my recollection. Well, bring it on. Let's see you bring those links. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 12:22 PM
"....unending repetition.." It is more like the reality on the ground has not changed. "...the overrepresentations in fields like teachers, health workers .." That is an interesting point. I don't think there is overrepresentation even in those fields, it is just that the Madhesis are less underrepresented in some select fields. "....Only ones I resent are those high caste educated MADHESIS who for their own sleazy reason are fuelling this hatred fire,and make me think them as others..." Name a few please. The call is for social justice, not for creating divisions. The call is to end the divisions that exist, not to create new ones. "...Why cant it be the LINK language instead of Hindi ..." Hindi IS the link language in the Terai. That is the reality. It is not a choice to be made in future. The only question is, will that reality be recognized or not. |
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 12:39 PM
Bholi ta CHATTH , AAFU ta lgiyo Mawala tira Chath Manauna... re kya ajha latma... |
| batauli | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 01:03 PM
Paramendra, Hindi is not THE link in terai.. unless your terai consists of only "your types..." mister... Janakpur and Chhappra Champaran does not make terai for Nepal. batauli |
| Dhotee | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 01:40 PM
Para Babuwa ye Dhotee ka Namaskar, Ab aap bass vee karo, bahot ho gayee yee khicha tanee. Hum Dhotee logan ka aab dhotee to na ra haa na rahaa, aab bachee huyee langotee vee udanay ka yeerada hai kay aap ka? Yesa na karo Babuwa. aap to amrica omrica chalay gaya bahoot hogaya, aap ke yea sararat say to hum logan ka aalu, piyaz aur kahlee sisi ka dhanda vee bhand hoga. Eedhar aap ka nathneeya pet se hai, thoda paisa waisa bhjhat ho ke nayee babuwa? Maloom nahee aab hum logan ka ke hoie gawa? Humra ashirbad hia babuwa ke ser ke uppar. Thoda aapna oh bolad Pressurwa check karawa lena ha babuwa. Bkee hum next lettarwa pe lekhat hau. Oww aap ka suvachintak, Dhotee |
| kasiram | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 01:57 PM
hey paramendra, you wrote "A tri-lingual education policy, so that the first language of a child is one of their subjects at school all the way through 12 years of high school". do u know how many different languages are spoken in nepal? so u want a class in newari, maithali, hindi, kirati vasha, tharu, marwadi and the list goes on? they are having enough problem running the education system now, imagine what would happen with the kind of system you want to implement. there are many nepali children here in the US whose first lanaguage is nepali. do u want the option of nepali all the way through high school? and that goes for children who speak other languages other than english as thier first language. do you want the education system to accommodate all those people? c'mon now paramendraji. be realistic. if you are so worried that hindi is not taught in schools in nepal, do they really need to TEACH hindi? i mean, i learned hindi by just watching doordarshan. and we all studied little indian history in school. so whats the need? we all can speak our own first languages at home, but in school why can't we just follow the good old nepali language? hell, i am a bhaun and i am not complaning that they took mandatory sanskrit away from high schools and sanskrit is my first language. what do you got to say to that mr. P |
| KK_Rai | Posted
on 06-Nov-02 01:59 PM
>Name a few please. The call is for social justice, not for creating divisions. The call is to end the divisions that exist, not to create new ones. You very well know who I am refering to If not for example- Parmendra Bhagat ! and well if one is fighting for social justice why not start at home . You do acknowledge the fact that Terai has its own shares of social injustices .Did I miss reading some of your posting regarding this equally important problem ? >Hindi IS the link language in the Terai. That is the reality. It is not a choice to be made in future. The only question is, will that reality be recognized or not. Strange isnt it ? Hindi the link language and even then you dont think it should have a place in your own EDUCATIONAL POLICY. I agree with batuli , Hindi seems to be the link language only for those urban , educated and of course high caste TERAIWASIS who has LINK with INDIA , not the whole terai . Many terais ethnic communites knowledge of Hindi is just at par with and not better than the average Nepal . Please review ,who you represent ! Ever tried to LINK yourself with a old DHIMAL lady from Jhapa in Hindi ? You always has this wonderful percentage 50% . Population of teraiwasis . May I know where did you get that magic number ? According to the lastest national census the total population of TERAI( inner including) is 53.9 percent and MIND you this is the total population of TERAI not TERAIWASIS . Just a thought |
| bajai | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:29 AM
p, instead of focusing on madhesis, or your clansmen, can't you ever raise yourself to think for nepalis as a whole? people like you INVITE yourselves to be scorned at, you should have learnt by now.. if all of us here have no qualms about referring to the other as another nepali, what do you find so offending in that? and be careful when you hint at non-existent statistics. correct your 80%. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 08:50 AM
Parmendra, Here’s what I was referring to. I am now sure that you are one of the reasons for TND’s shut-down. Now, I see the same thing happening with Sajha-Kurakani. Parmendra Bhagat discovered that the web (especially Nepali web-sites) was the best medium to spread his anti-hill people sentiments, in 98/99. His first victim was the Nepali e-zine, TND edited by Rajpal Singh. I believe that one of the reasons that they had to stop TND was Parmendra’s nonsensical pieces. Now that Parmednra has discovered sajha.com to spread his nonsense, he will rest only after this site gets shut down like TND. With Parmendra’s ever increasing posts on his personal life, his anti-hill people remarks and sheer nonsense, Sajha-Kurakani has started to lose its readers/posters as it is slowly turning into Bhagat.com. As Bhupendra Rawat rightly noted on TND a few years ago: “Parmendra Bhagat has become a hopelessly confessional contributor. Under the bandwagon of racism, he now has one product to sell: himself, himself and himself. You'll be damned if you try to argue back: just keep your thoughts to yourself and scroll on and on. So much for dialogue and discussion. No wonder reading TND these days takes less than three minutes.” A brilliant Prof. at Duke thought that Parmednra needed writing lessons: I have, however, been disappointed lately by the waste of TND space for the irrelevant materials you have been sending to TND, materials that do not relate to Nepal in any significant way nor make any point. There is no relevance I can see, for example, posting about your New York visit or all the disconnected nonesense about America, free market system, and general platitudes about racism. Besides violating the confidence of the folks who hosted you and who may not want to see their names dragged in this way in public, there is no point, no public relevance of such a posting. It does not belong to TND. Who cares what you do or did or will do in your private life, how you spend your leisure, where you go during vacation, who you meet and so on? They may be of importance to you, like the album of private memories, but as mere pieces of information, they are useless, worthless, and irrelevant for others. Because you are not a star of some sort or a public person so people could be curious about your personal habits and quirks, they are not worthy of even the mudslinging tabloids. In scattered bits and pieces they don't make any sense; they only lower your credibility as a writer and reduce whatever persuasive power you as a writer possess even for those who are sympathetic to your cause and want to see your arguments effectively made. *** Parmendra’s strategy has been to: 1. provoke readers by posting sheer nonsense 2. never reply to anyone with arguments 3. reply to those who can’t reply him back or who go right on Parmendra! 4. go start a new thread on something else (for example, Lara Valley and madhise’s loyalty) 5. Repeat the steps (1-4) My assertion is that, that Mr Bhagat is a prachar hungry individual, nothing more. According to Rawat from TND, “His claims about racism certainly ring true, but then again, everyone knows that he's no "madhisay" on a bike, peddling kauli-bhanta to middle-class homes in Kathmandu. That is why, his shoulder-rubbing with that "mashisay" on the bike at times seems too calculated to serve his own purpose, and rings sort of hollow.” But, Parmendra hasn’t realized this yet. He sees himself as a messiah, a savior of the madhesis, but interestingly enough, not a single madhisey nepali has come to defend him or his views, instead, “ Even some tarai-basi Nepalis have railed against Bhagat's tactics: Surely, it is not the case that Bhagat is the only one who's been right ALL THESE TIMES!” (Rawat, TND) Bhagat, kuch samajh aaya? I guess not. Here’s closing remarks by Rawat (this one is so good that I don’t think I can come up with anything better): All said and done. if Bhagat's goals were to initiate a dialogue on race and racism in Nepal, it's safe to say that he has failed. The whole debate has pretty much been Bhagat and Bhagat and Bhagat, and I have learnt nothing new since his first couple of postings. So, laurels to Bhagat for raising the issue of racismin the beginning; and darts and darts to for everthing that followed after. Of course, Bhagat, being Bhagat, will hit back at me: but that's fine. |
| wy | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:02 AM
What a freaking job, freak! |
| NK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:09 AM
hmmmm..... |
| Poonte | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:12 AM
Oh, Lord! Have mercy!! |
| NK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:15 AM
Dante? :) The most famous first line! |
| jira | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:17 AM
mandaina mandaina, yuasley je gaurey ni terdaina..saddhai kichkich saddhai kichkich, yuaslai too much freedom bhayeko democracy jasto bha cha sajha.com. Yuasta lai nai ho thik parna belabelama dictatorship hannu parcha. Post garna sathhai thread nai bhasma, ki kaso San! Ke cha bichaarr? Teska GF ko Th*** herna aa ho ra hami!! |
| kalankisthan | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:23 AM
what is Th ***, Jira jyu?? Nepali ko sappai curse words haru, ek by ek yaad gare, Th*** ko artha ko atto patto bhayena... what is Th***? |
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:24 AM
Jira Bao !! ke bidhi rishako !! ammai ! bhasamai garla jasto!! la mero email padhera malai Emaille hana ta bau! Bhedo buddhi bhaye pachi kasaiko kehi lagdaina re kya, Maile pani padhe Isolated Freak ta Freak nai hunu parcha .. re kya ajha lastma |
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:25 AM
Thelgada wala bhanya hola!! ..re kya ajha |
| NK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:26 AM
Tsk jira, the king of jhyaure and deusirey. Could you please tone down a bit? Let's not be disrespectful to the woman in the picture. "Our" issue is with Paramendra and what he posts. Not some woman in some picutre he took the liberty to post. Ok, hmmm... that(the pic.) was also his posting. Never mind, still ,let's not zero in a particular anatomy of the woman. It sounds a bit vluger and "unbecoming." :) Did you follow recent Mass. guber. election? That is why that smiley face. |
| jira | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 09:48 AM
NK! I am neither disrespecting anybody here nor was it my intention to disrespect the women in the picture. If you have time, please look at my earlier posting in the same thread. I am tired of this bull shit. I hope I do not have to type any more asterisks. Can you take it this time? I still feel sorry for that women who is posing innocently and has unknowingly become the victim of this EVIL guy. This is what happens when you put something in the public forum. I just want him to acknowledge that. Prior to this, have you ever seen anyone asking about his personal life? Perhaps, not. I would see you asking Parmendra not to do this kind of heinous act rather than puting one more Tamacha on me ( Dukhyo rey kya ajha jhan last ma :-). I am not trying to be funny here. Thanks to Dhumba for this great trademarks. jira |
| dhumbasse (dumbass) | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 10:17 AM
AAja Hamro Jira bauko serious hune palo aayo justo cha ..rekya ajha lastma..:) |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 10:19 AM
This thread is proof that the idea is not to "covince" the unconvincable. The issue asks for your political defeat, not dialogue. You can go on thinking right along in your rut. Be stuck in that mental frame. The world will pass you by. Give it a few election cycles. |
| NK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 10:22 AM
Jira, why that exclamation mark after my name? Did you think I won't hear you if you call my name softly? I am old but not that old re kya ajha lasta ma. [lol] so u ask me to ask paramendra to ask the woman not to pose for his camera? ok, i will try. asha gara bhar napara hai ta? |
| Bathroomcoffee | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 10:23 AM
osted on 11-05-02 1:08 PM Reply as anyone noticed that evertime the site admin or 'san' writes, this one guy always has something to reply about. Is this some sort of chamcha giri I wonder. Posted on 11-05-02 1:20 PM Reply ecause he a loooooooooossser with no orignality thats why. Always scheeming and kniving to better himself. stealing others ideas making them his own....He is a DESH DROHI carries a Nepali passport but does not like to be called Nepali. He is like the scum of the earth... oh yeah and he also is a master of Hypocrisy. He claims to be a vivid advocate of racism, castism, women's right etc etc But does not back down from calling people names like Bahadur.. HAVE YOU NO SHAME ? And still has the insolence to come back here as if nothing has happened and try to engage people into his SAME OLD SAME OLD discussions. |
| batauli | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 11:43 AM
Paramendra, How about somewhere in the past you said you had converted to Buddhism? Didn't have confidence to be what you are.. who you are.. where you are... or what..? Talk about loyalty.. issues.. ali ali hunchhha ni.. re kya lastama... (thnks dhuma;) batauli |
| NK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 11:45 AM
LOL! |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 12:00 PM
"...you said you had converted to Buddhism..." Yes. I did. A few years back. I grew up a Hindu. My family remains Hindu. But I am a Buddhist. I was Hindu by birth. And I looked around. There is too much self-righteousness in the Christian and Islamic worldviews. I think. Not that I ever seriously considered either of them for me. All along I had a soft corner for Buddhism. Finally I made the leap. I never owed you or anyone my religious "loyalty." This is not about being a traitor. And I am glad NK is having fun. I made my choice. Buddhism has all the pluses that Hinduism has and none of the minuses. The gist of the Geeta - the theme of change being the only unchanging reality - is there in Buddhism. My major gripe with Hinduism was the caste system. To remain Hindu would have been to agree with it. And I strongly disagree with it. Buddhism is a thinking religion. You don't have to accept anything on faith. Whereas, in Christianity and Islam, that is where it all starts: faith. Do you believe that...? Einstein described Buddhism as the most scientific of all religions. Buddha was born a Madhesi, hello! But that was a minor point. :-) I just had to add that detail to spite some of the gadflies at the thread.
I just had to throw in a few links. |
| NK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 12:09 PM
The trouble with me today My dear, is my decision to goof (g)uff. I hope you are not thinking I am laughing at your expense. I sincerely hope not. If nothing (and nobody) is being spent , how can one laugh at the non-existent expense, right? So , let me just have some fun. " Do you know what I mean [2000; NK, Paramendra Bhagat...Interim....]?" |
| batauli | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 12:11 PM
Paramendra, This "gadfly" was not looking for your religious loyalty.. just as a way of connecting this change in you to something else so much lacking in you: Have you ever tried to think (sorry, think is a strong word.. ) of the issues you are fighting for.. from a different platform.. like.. maybe there is something else in play that is not allowing the madhises to be "more" Nepali, besides your contenson that upper caste pahadiyas are playing unfair... jmt batauli |
| KKM | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 01:01 PM
batauli, You are one heck of a writer! Loved reading your responses. Keep it up. You might be another Samrat in the making. Now back to the issue: well, side issues. Like is or not, paramendra raises some very interesting and thought provoking issues. Having been born and partly raised in "madhes" (rest of the time I went to school in the valley) I can understand some of his concerns. That does not mean that I agree with them. In fact some of them indicate to me (a layman) that he might be missing a screw or two....The whole language issue.... Like P, I was born in a Hindu family and decided to take-up Buddhism. Not because I disliked Hinduism (for the reasons paramendra describes above) but because Buddhism has answers to some of my spiritual questions. Having said that, one question to paramendra, are you a Buddhist or do you practice Buddhism? Depending on which one you fall under, you will either continue on your path of suffering (mental in this case) or you have way too much time on your hand. In that case shouldn't you be practicing Buddhism? Bujhnelai yo kura gairo cha, na bujsne lai.... you know what comes next! |
| Poonte | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 01:38 PM
Caste system, as it is practiced today in our society, is NOT a part of Hinduism. Not every trait of cultural practices of a society can be attributed to the religion that society is embedded in. Original casteism, as it appeared in the Geeta, stratefied the manushyas according to their deeds, not by their birth rights. Unfortunately, the CULTURAL aspect of our society at some point seems to have distorted the original meaning of casteism, and not only made birth rights a must in casteism, but also started to use it to discriminate against certain castes. DO NOT BLAME THE RELIGION FOR THE MISGIVNIGS OF IT'S FOLLOWERS! Note: This is not an attempt to make you a re-born Hindu. What religion you choose to guide your life is your own perogative. I am just trying to clarify a misconstrued statement that you bring up again and again. |
| Poonte | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 01:39 PM
PS: la jaa re ke ajha jhanai laaaaast ma ;) |
| nayabato | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 01:44 PM
Converted to Buddhism, why for religious reasons, then you people should have remained with in your religion. For anyone who thinks or takes is as a religion, well what can I say? Did Buddha give you rules and regulations? Did he say now I am enlightened hence what I teach needs to be followed as a religion? Please, it is a way of life or belief; this does not mean that it is a religion. That is what is so wrong about religion, it does not want to change with ever developing surroundings, and Buddhism in the other hand embraces all beliefs. Dalai lama does not ask you to change your religion but to look for good things within your own. As for Buddha, he was born into a sakay family, from what I have read. In relation to the original inquisition, no one needs to prove to be a Nepali. It is the system that defeats us all; it is that we should be trying to change. In regards teaching Nepali as second or third language, why breakdown a country when it is already falling apart. We should be more innovative in bringing in a constitute that will embrace us all and see us as equals no matter what our background is. The main item that holds us back from this is the backward thinking that is associated with religion, which goes hand in hand. Yes Hinduism is greatly to blame for, as Nepal is a Hindu country. And those of you who do not agree with this, well why cannot a cow be killed? Surely a Nepali who is not from Hindu background is stopped from carrying out such an act; hence you see the rights of individuals being impeded upon. As for links with India, it has not brought us any benefits when they all want to do is control us like puppets and make us their 23rd state, do I need to say anything? If you are a true Nepali at heart then you already know the answer. To you people |
| SIWALIK | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 02:50 PM
How does one prove one's loyalty to Nepal? Are the Moist loyal? Are the monarchs loyal? Are the democratic parties and leaders loyal? Who decides? Are Madhesis not loyal just cuz they are madhesis? Do the Sherpa's and mountainous people need to prove they are loyal to Nepal? Loyalty comes from thoughts and action, not birth or region. Contrary to the idea that caste system is not a part of Hinduism, I suggest, it is an integral part of it. As I have argued caste system that was a functional distinction during the Vedic period, became entrenched social distinction after Manu. There were three reasons for Buddhism's decline in India: 1. Licentiousness of Buddhist monks and community a la Catholic priests recently exposed. 2. Revival of Hinduism under Manu who countered Buddhist idea of equality by arguing "Yes we are all equal, but not necessarily in this life." 3. Muslim invasion. But we have fused two different threads now... |
| wy | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 02:59 PM
Paramendra: Do you agree that Budha was born in Lumbini, Nepal? Just curious! |
| KK_Rai | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 03:33 PM
Parmendra, Well i am still waiting for your answer on that 50 percent thing . Ever thought , this very statement of yours may as well be valid for you too.. By the way , all those MADHESIS [who you (mis)claim to represent ] who first think of them as Nepali dont have to prove theirs loyality to OUR country but now I am in serious doubt , you might have to .. Just a thought |
| bhedo | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 04:23 PM
Buddha certainly didn't resemble modern day Madhesis. He was of Scythian ancestry (Shakyamuni, as he was called), and most probably white skinned. |
| nayabato | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 05:12 PM
Ok it seems like we have fused the thread but surely are they not linked? If one feels that one has to prove his/her loyalty then this is a classic example of one being discriminated against. One feels below the average expectation, which the social group has set mentally or is it only in the person asking the question? One can should look at the situation together to get more insight for one has the roots in the other if this were not the case then this discussion would have never been started. The problem is that many of the issues we like to look at are all intertwined hence to view a specific section is difficult, for it is not in the context of books or lectures anymore. Your thought |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 06:43 PM
" Do you know what I mean [2000; NK, Paramendra Bhagat...Interim....]?" Oh, that patented line! I recognize that. "..... maybe there is something else in play that is not allowing the madhises to be "more" Nepali ..." I don't think the Madhesis are trying to be more Nepali. Those denied citizenship certificates want that piece of paper: those with it want equality, legal and social. "..another Samrat in the making.." Who is Samrat? Just curious. "...The whole language issue.... " Since the status quo is unjust, and you don't like my idea, what do YOU suggest should happen? "...either continue on your path of suffering ..." You misunderstand Buddhism. It does not ask one to suffer silently, but to get out of the rut of suffering. Some people similarly misunderstand Gandhi. He actually said violence is better than inaction. "..society at some point seems to have distorted the original meaning of casteism, and not only made birth rights a must in casteism, but also started to use it to discriminate against certain castes.." Well, how do you propose we change this current status quo, since you do think it is unjust? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 06:50 PM
"..it is a way of life or belief; this does not mean that it is a religion.." Buddhism is a religion. Just like Christianity, just like Islam, like Hinduism. Funny, some fundamentalist Christians talk of Hinduism the same way you are talking about Buddhism. That it is just a way of life, and not a religion. "...he was born into a sakay family..." And Jesus was born a Jew. So? "It is the system that defeats us all; it is that we should be trying to change." This is positive thinking that asks for a unity that does not insult the Madhesis. "...In regards teaching Nepali as second or third language.." The status quo is unfair. How would YOU modify it? "...And those of you who do not agree with this, well why cannot a cow be killed? Surely a Nepali who is not from Hindu background is stopped from carrying out such an act; hence you see the rights of individuals being impeded upon. ..." Valid point that asks for sincere dialogue, since a similar utterance by Padma Ratna Tuladhar brought down a UML government, I believe. "...with India, it has not brought us any benefits when they all want to do is control us like puppets and make us their 23rd state..." This is another big topic that asks for dialogue. India is huge. Nepal is small. Nepal is basically landlocked by India. India has dealt many unfair hands in the past. On the other hand, there is no geographical escape. There is this immense cultural bond between the two countries. Nepal should refuse to put up with any Indian hegemony. But Indophobia is no answer. That is escapism. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 06:56 PM
"Contrary to the idea that caste system is not a part of Hinduism, I suggest, it is an integral part of it." True. "Do you agree that Budha was born in Lumbini, Nepal? Just curious!" That is a fact. How do you form opinions on facts? "...that 50 percent thing .." What's that? "...all those MADHESIS [who you (mis)claim to represent ] who first think of them as Nepali dont have to prove theirs loyality to OUR country but now I am in serious doubt , you might have to .. " Look at you: you are a Homo Sapien first, a human being. Then you are an Asian. Then a South Asian. Then a Nepali. Then a Rai. The same applies to Madhesis. ...... Then a Nepali. Then a Madhesi. Then a Maithil. "...One can should look at the situation together to get more insight for one has the roots in the other ..." Caste. Regionalism. What is missing is gender.......... The worst part about talking these issues is I don't get to talk about my favorite topic: the national economy. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:00 PM
Rapid Economic Growth For Nepal: What Would It Take Paramendra Bhagat October 7, 2002 http://www.geocities.com/paramendra/2002/nepal3.html What would it take? This is a topic I have visited often from different angles. And I expect my interest to remain. One, my personal history of having grown up in the country, where my parents, my brother and sisters live, and the emotional attachment that will forever remain. Two, my predilection for active politics. I dabbled in politics with the likes of Hridayesh Tripathy before coming to the United States to attend college. I became my college's student body president at the end of my freshman year, a record. I read everything on Bill Clinton I can get hold of. I have broached the possibility of some day running for Congress, although, for now, I just want to be able to write full-time; the possibilities of going into software or law remain. I keep up with the news on Nepal - the internet makes it oh so easy - and have become a regular at Sajha.com. I am a news junkie in general anyway. Three, as a student of politics and economics, the second poorest country comes across as a human laboratory of interest, for there are many countries similarly struggling. Heck, there even might be messages for the poor pockets in the rich countries if we ponder hard enough. Four, with an ingrained disposition to counter tendencies against racism I don't envision a future where the West will always remain the rich island in the ocean of poverty that is the Global South. The Global South's path to wealth does not, can not, will not have to be imitations of where the West has already been, but new headways as intellectually stimulating as any. Someday perhaps many parts of the South will hopefully have overtaken the West. Why not? My limited academic training in the intricacies of economic theory might hinder me in getting specific with the details, but my broad suggestions ought to appeal. More important, I am willing to give it a try and put forth my views for a broad, ongoing discussion. And my political background and instincts should compensate for and otherwise guide what I have to say. That probably puts me at a distinct advantage, for no matter what we might cook up in sharp company, ultimately those ideas have to be taken to the broad public, and implemented with their participation. For Nepal, I see a three-pronged strategy:
I am aware my proposals are vague. But they give a specific enough framework so we can hold discussions. I look forward to them. I hope those with more specialized knowledge than mine will fill the gaps, and come up with specifics. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:08 PM
Paramendraji, it is ironic that I have read (seen) your "Rapid Economic Growth" several times in Sajha, but, you lash out on BP and BC for posting same rheotoric on you many times? I know, I know you want to be like a 'Politicians' and be able to talk same thing like a Parrot all through campaign (like how US presidency campaigns goes), and bad mouting and talking economy is not same thing but, Kani LOGIC Thik Nai Bhel Bauwa? - iti |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:16 PM
LS: I have failed to ignite a discussion on the topic, despite the presence of many fine minds. It seems controversies around personalities have an easier time doing that. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:35 PM
Paramendraji, Here is my observation. This is a 'Virtual Forum', nobody is interested in 'Reality'. They are facing reality everyday, why bother coming to Sajha. They come here for fun and while having fun, learning is BONUS. But, if you are smart then you need to 'Wrap' your 'Reality' around 'Virtuality' and then you will be surprised how that thread 'Rocks'. Examples: Try asking the characteristics of each character in Sajha, nobody replies. Start a 'Gaijatra of Famous Sajhaites', you learn a lot about all the Sajha Characters. Raw 'Politics Sucks', 'Paramendra Bhagat Appointed PM' was biggest success - it is virtual 'Politics'. M.P. very cleverly wrapped around his political thoughts in his mastery of words. Want to know more about Sajha Characters, don't ask directly, just start a 'Red Carpet Award Ceremony', that pushed the poplularity to limits. Want to do some 'Charity', don't talk, just start a 'Least You Can Do' - small but with an example'. So, basically if you want to give your children a bitter pill, wrap it around with HONEY! - iti |
| ruck | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:47 PM
L.S. A little bit of Sugar helps the medicine go down hoina? Ruck |
| Jayahos | Posted
on 07-Nov-02 07:51 PM
Paramendra We have people here working both in macro and micro level and some are working in both level. It will be great if they also contribute to your Rapid economic growth: What would it take. My simple observation is: putting aside the issues of corruption and politics for now, let's look at our resources that can be exploited for a rapid economic growth. What are our resources and how can we capitalize them? In my schooldays I was taught that 'HARIYO BAN NEPAL KO DHAN', now BAN is not considered as DHAN. (Though, CK LAL has written a good article on how Swedish use BAN as DHAN). Now popular jargon is Water Resources and RM Shrestha, Prof. from AIT, once in a seminar in Nepal pointed to the fact that the notion that Nepal is second only to Brazil in water resources does not hold water. Deepak Gyawali and AM Dixit relentlessly argue that our water resource is limited. With Bangladesh trying to exploit its gas resources, selling our electricity - in case we are able to produce it by any means - is next to impossible. Resource is not the limitation. Japan imports raw materials and exports products! Tourism and Carpet industry had shown some promise but it was not sufficient to lift the country. So, is it agriculture and industry based upon agriculture that we should focus in? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 11:18 AM
"...basically if you want to give your children a bitter pill, wrap it around with HONEY! ..." You just might have offered a nugget of wisdom! On another topic, how often have you heard the Repubs talk tax cuts? Do they talk about anything else? Jayahos. Looks like you are about to prove the wisdom wrong! Great .......... :-) I guess, we can just expect some diversity.......... |
| Bathroomcoffee | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 11:57 AM
Hay Paramendra... Why do you come here ? why ? You don't consider yourself Nepali .. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 01:38 PM
Paramendra bhai, I am glad I made my point clear. You are doing good job in Sajha community by keeping it lively and diversifying the topics discussed. I like your enthusiasm, but as others, I may not like all of what you say, but that is fine. You may not like all what I have to say too, but we still can work together for ONE goal and that is what exactly democracy teaches us. BCji, I have not read anywheere Paramendra claiming he is not Nepali (not that I read every posting posted in Sajha). Please let us know where did he claim that? Or, is it a bias to tell all Terai basi as Indian? Many of Nepalese were born in Indian hospitals (or in another country), they get married in India (or elsewhere), they get Bratabandha in Kaasi, all these don't make them non-Nepali. Let us rise above that. Day and nigt he thinks and acts for development of Nepal (in his own way, we may not like it, but, we need to give two thumbs up for the effort) and Nepalese, in my opinion, logically that makes him PAKKA friend of Nepal. I really don't care if he carries an Indian passport or US passport. I wish we had more of Paramendra in Nepal!!!!!! - iti |
| SIWALIK | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 01:56 PM
I think this forum is open for everyone. In fact, the diversity speaks and bodes well. No one has the right to ask why someone comes to participate. I would like to urge for more of tolerance and less of acrimony. Thank you very much! |
| Deep | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 03:24 PM
Siwalik ji, I agree this site is open to all (unless san thinks otherwise) regardless of the nationality or color or race or sexual orientation and the like. Content is what matters the most. One does not have to be a Nepali to post something here. But I think I know where "bathroomcoffee" is coming from. He seems pretty disgusted with Parmendra's postings and most if not all ideas incorporated therein. I am all for diversity. I wouldn't support a motion to ban Parmendra from here. I am not a Paramendra fan but I clearly recognize his previlige to post ideas here in sajha. I agree with LS when he says and I quote "You are doing good job in Sajha community by keeping it lively and diversifying the topics discussed. I like your enthusiasm, but as others, I may not like all of what you say, but that is fine. You may not like all what I have to say too, but we still can work together for ONE goal and that is what exactly democracy teaches us." But I am not comfortable with his last sentence, "I wish we had more of Paramendra in Nepal!!!!!! " Unity in diversity is what should be the case in Nepal "E pluribus Unum" not division in Unity. I wish more Paramendras with adjusted tone and ideas in Nepal". More the number of people resembling present day Parmendras, greater the possiblility of civil war in Nepal. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 03:41 PM
Deepji I stand corrected, and I agree hundred percent with you, we don't need lots of present paramendra but we need lots of Paramendra with adjusted tone and ideas in Nepal with full of Wisdom!!!! - iti |
| NK | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 05:06 PM
That's right Logical Sense. Like I said sometime even YOU make sense :). I come here for fun and learning? kun chara ko nam ho han tyo learning bhanya. Still, if i learn something here that is good and fine (ashu's trade mark, i think). But first and foremost I don't come here with any agenda. Well unless u call having fun is an agenda... |
| Junkie | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 06:01 PM
Param dai: Yeni haru lay ja bhane pani, Mero tah foll support chha tapai lai. As long as you keep the compact one-two liner comments. Love the power in brevity and "dictionary" herna nah parne language. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 08-Nov-02 09:43 PM
"I really don't care if he carries an Indian passport or US passport." I carry a Nepali passport! "More the number of people resembling present day Parmendras, greater the possiblility of civil war in Nepal." All my stances have been to be within the bounds of electoral politics which offer enough options to work towards social justice. You defend to unjust status quo. Maybe YOU should change your minds. |
| deep | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 12:37 AM
Paramendra: I carry a Nepali passport! Deep: I am neither thrilled nor disappointed. Paramendra: All my stances have been to be within the bounds of electoral politics which offer enough options to work towards social justice. Deep: Bunch of debatable ideas. "stances", "bounds of electoral politics", "enough options", "social justice", please elaborate! Paramendra: You defend to unjust status quo. Maybe YOU should change your minds. Talk about democracy "Maybe YOU should change your minds." BTW, how many MINDS have you seen in me? And how many of them am I supposed to change to revoke the decoration you kindly offered "defender of unjust status quo"? Deep: Any one who does not share your views is a defender of unjust status quo. What's new? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 11:47 AM
The words ....... You defend the unjust status quo. Maybe YOU should change your minds. ....... were addressed to a collective "you" and not just to you. |
| nayabato | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 01:51 PM
Hi. These are some opinions. (Oh, that patented line! I recognize that. "..... maybe there is something else in play that is not allowing the madhises to be "more" Nepali ..." I don't think the Madhesis are trying to be more Nepali. Those denied citizenship certificates want that piece of paper: those with it want equality, legal and social. ) Due to the bureaucratic inefficiency that are constantly are at the top, but one must realise that one does not require jewellery to identify ones self. ("..another Samrat in the making.." Who is Samrat? Just curious. "...The whole language issue.... " Since the status quo is unjust, and you don't like my idea, what do YOU suggest should happen? "...either continue on your path of suffering ..." You misunderstand Buddhism. It does not ask one to suffer silently, but to get out of the rut of suffering. Some people similarly misunderstand Gandhi. He actually said violence is better than inaction. ) Concur but to use that action in a corrective and wiser manner will be much appreciated by the whole rather than only a few factions. (..society at some point seems to have distorted the original meaning of casteism, and not only made birth rights a must in casteism, but also started to use it to discriminate against certain castes.." Well, how do you propose we change this current status quo, since you do think it is unjust? ) To extracts the roots be a good start. Then right dynamics, not as fashion but as a realistic path needs to be pitched onto the arena. How the public absorb it is their own free will but to enforce then a defensive barriers start to be built. ("..it is a way of life or belief; this does not mean that it is a religion.." Buddhism is a religion. Just like Christianity, just like Islam, like Hinduism. Funny, some fundamentalist Christians talk of Hinduism the same way you are talking about Buddhism. That it is just a way of life, and not a religion. ) That is a way of looking at it, all religions are the same, yes then, why do they always bring the badness of people rather than good? It is a fact that all religions are created by humans, unless there is some solutions, which I have not come across, however if some are know then please inform…. Other is that every person has a view and it will always be different to another’s, hence all writing must be encountered as thoughts and if one is convinced then that need not be a religion? The other will always have the power to decide, hence to take this away is surely wrong but also the person is under hypnosis. So if all can make the choice then why not choose the one which benefits you but has a positive effect on the community. ("...he was born into a sakay family..." And Jesus was born a Jew. So? ) Just a view of the Buddha’s background, important for Nepalis ("It is the system that defeats us all; it is that we should be trying to change." This is positive thinking that asks for a unity that does not insult the Madhesis. ) Also for all others ("...In regards teaching Nepali as second or third language.." The status quo is unfair. How would YOU modify it? ) Why modify? Think more like the Japanese, consume ideas and assimilate and ways to benefit a society to highten its exitense. Diversity already exists in Nepal, so the second stage would be to amalgamate on the concept of Nepal, not to defrayment it. ("...And those of you who do not agree with this, well why cannot a cow be killed? Surely a Nepali who is not from Hindu background is stopped from carrying out such an act; hence you see the rights of individuals being impeded upon. ..." Valid point that asks for sincere dialogue, since a similar utterance by Padma Ratna Tuladhar brought down a UML government, I believe. ) My apologies. Not too familiar with the individuals within politics of Nepal. ("...with India, it has not brought us any benefits when they all want to do is control us like puppets and make us their 23rd state..." This is another big topic that asks for dialogue. ) Anyone who is up to date in news should not have to be informed on this point, where does one start, why not with the embargo restrictions that exist when it suits or want to tighten the circle by the Indian government? (India is huge. Nepal is small. Nepal is basically landlocked by India. India has dealt many unfair hands in the past. On the other hand, there is no geographical escape. There is this immense cultural bond between the two countries. Nepal should refuse to put up with any Indian hegemony. But Indophobia is no answer. That is escapism. ) Is there? I am neapli that in its own or the way I think, talk, behave, eat, life style is a different kettle of fish? Yes hegemonic control is not allowed but can be reviewed if time has brought a friendlier situation in this planet, including the neighbours. In regards to escapism, how can it be looked upon as a magical extravagance of Mr. Houdini? When there is no base to start from. ("Contrary to the idea that caste system is not a part of Hinduism, I suggest, it is an integral part of it." True. ) To a point but still why a Hindu country when there are others? Many of us embrace all yet why then do we still have classifications? ("Do you agree that Budha was born in Lumbini, Nepal? Just curious!" That is a fact. How do you form opinions on facts? )  Espically when hegemonic tendencies are displayed. ("...all those MADHESIS [who you (mis)claim to represent ] who first think of them as Nepali dont have to prove theirs loyality to OUR country but now I am in serious doubt , you might have to .. " Look at you: you are a Homo Sapien first, a human being. Then you are an Asian. Then a South Asian. Then a Nepali. Then a Rai. The same applies to Madhesis. ...... Then a Nepali. Then a Madhesi. Then a Maithil. ) Globalisation is good but to lose your self in the system can have detrimental site effects. ("...One can should look at the situation together to get more insight for one has the roots in the other ..." Caste. Regionalism. What is missing is gender.......... ) Why should it be a dividing point? Without them that mechanics of realism will disappear at this time in evolutionary stage. (The worst part about talking these issues is I don't get to talk about my favorite topic: the national economy. ) Interesting issue but need to get back to studying. Take no offence from my views, hope they can be enjoyed as I have of so many here at Sajha. Pachhi bhaytula |
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 01:05 AM
"Due to the bureaucratic inefficiency that are constantly are at the top, but one must realise that one does not require jewellery to identify ones self." That piece of paper - the citizenship certificate - is no jewelry. Without that life is hell: you can't buy or sell land, you can't apply for government jobs, you can't attend government colleges, etc. And prejudice is a much larger reason. Bureaucratic efficiency is a much smaller reason. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:05 PM
I am so glad there is this thread, and the one on caste dynamics, and there is one on housewives that has kind of veered into some more Sajah socializing, which is just fine. So important to keep the conversation going. And the one that Ashu started, on the evolving community standards. Sajha is both a ----------- (1) chiya pasal and a (2) cyber think tank. A hang out place as well as a venue for serious discussions like the one on Demoracy In China. The traffic used to be 700 per day. Then it shot up to twice that. Now it has come down to about a thousand. I am surprised it is not more like 7,000. And so glad Tihar was business time for Sajha, important for long-term viability. The limitations of cyber talk, as well the opportunity to comingle across major geographic distances. Like Bill Gates would say, "information at your fingertips." Masala at your fingertips. My failure to get some Sajha hastis to come along to http://www.csmonitor.com/monitortalk/ .......... ha! |
| Kwasamachaa | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:12 PM
Hey who are you tio come and tell us what we can post and why we cannot post here ? San runs this place so shut the fk up. We do not want to come to your talk period and stop baiting us. Why don't you do us all a favor and keep quiet for a couple of days at least we do not have to hear this dog fight everyday. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:24 PM
Machaa: This is a platitude. Anyone can come here and post to the hilt. The Sajha technology makes that possible, and freedom of speech and the Sajha TOS protects that. So you can talk as much as you want, and on any topic you want. And you don't have to listen to/read anything. Others may talk as much they want, and you don't have to listen to any of them. So I don't understand why you think I want you to not talk. You can post anything anywhere at the site. "...so shut the fk up...keep quiet for a couple of days ........" You are the one who has problems with ME doing some talking. "...We do not want to come to your talk period ..." MonitorTalk is a wonderful place for talks of U.S. and global politics. I was just extending an inviation, like some extend invitations here for "Boston get-together"s. I would have ignored your post if it were not for the fact that your shut-up mantra is relevant to the topic at hand. I have heard Nepali men say that to some of the women at the site. And I have had people say that to me. It is a very politically loaded attitude to have. The Madhesis are supposed to know their place, eh! Summary: you have an attitude problem. |
| Kwasamachaa | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:53 PM
And YOU DON"T HAVE ANATTITUDE PROBLEM ? " I am so glad there is this thread, and the one on caste dynamics, and there is one on housewives that has kind of veered into some more Sajah socializing, which is just fine. So important to keep the conversation going." I was talking about this, shit for brains.. I am sick of this dog fight everyday. Its nice and quiet when you are not around. I am sick of you and your MARSHYA talk .. Everyone gets descriminated everywhere. Nepali's get called Bahadur in India and are treated accodingly. Koreans get descriminated by the Japanese, Taiwanese descriminate by chinese, Even in the land of the free there is descrimination between various racial and social groups. It happens all the time the Strong will always oppress the weak. It has been going on since the begining of time. And If you had the oppertunity.....GIVEN THE NATURE OF YOUR BEHAVIOUR(oppertunist) you would indulge in the same manner. |
| Kwasamachaa | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 02:43 PM
I am Newar but you don't see me crying because sopmeone called me a Jyapu or padaa. And you don't see any newa's saying they are from South Asia because someone called them a Jyapu. Unlike you everytime someone calls you a Marshya you cry like a little baby. and when someone does give you an inch ..you try to gain a foot by making statements like ... "I went to school. I received part funding from HMG for which I don't feel thankful for to ANY "Nepali" at this site. The whole attitude that it is YOUR country and I need to be THANKFUL, or people like me need to be thankful for being there --- that IS the problem." |
| nayabato | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 02:54 PM
kwasmachaa, your point is well noted, however I ask you, will the human civilisation never get rid of this hereditary dieses? And in regards to the certificate, well we are the future and if we cannot even break out of our shells in regards to religion, caste in the line of politics, then what good is that democracy? Also, to talk and review other political systems in the whole wide world or even the universe, can be a good learning process, however it not to imitate them but to build one that suits all in Nepal and maybe spread it. Your thoughts |
| Kwasamachaa | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 03:46 PM
I don't think it will be eradicated..but maybe controlled. Cause people have differences all the time. Just because of that you do not denounce your citizenship. Only stupid people with idiotic approach with an ego as big as the universe will do that. Since the begining of human history we have been fighting with each other alll the time..sometimes war, sometimes verbal,political or whatever... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 06:32 PM
Two wrongs don't make one right. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 06:47 PM
Kwasamachha: You say you are a Newar. That people sometimes call you a jyapu or a pada, and that you take it and move along. You also cite examples of discrimination from beyond Nepal. That reminds me of an article Nuru Lama wrote in the Nepali Times on the Bahun issue. And there was a raging discussion at the SEBS site because of that. Actually I came to Sajha from that discussion for the first time. I will say to you what I said then: Tackling Ethnic Issues In Nepal My question: should you not opt to take offense? Where do you stand on the Newari language, the Nepal Sambat, and the valley as a possible state within Nepal? I am surprised we don't see more common ground than we do. |
| Kwasamachaa | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 08:11 AM
When you say things like I don't feel Nepali thats where I draw the line. You want to rake all the benefits of Nepal and say I don't feel I belong here ? We get descriminated all the time too.. But do you see me complaining ? There is descrimination everywhere you see. If you are not a native in any country, you are going to be treated differently. I am sure you have noticed that here too. But I am just sick and tired of your ranting and raving about the WHOLE MARSHYA ISSUE..LIKE YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE BEING DESCRIMINATED. "I am surprised we don't see more common ground than we do." I WILL NEVER JOIN FORCES WITH SOMEONE LIKE YOU. I AM HAPPY AND PROUD TO SAY THAT I CAME FROM NEPAL. I am happy to mingle with the Bahadurs, Bahuns, Chetri, Sherpas and all the 4 jaat 36 barna of Nepal. At least they are loyal and honest.. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 10:46 AM
Well, check this out --- an interesting thread started by isolated freak: "...We get descriminated all the time too.. But do you see me complaining ? ..." There is racism and there is internalized racism. |
| Kwasamachaa | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 11:08 AM
Whatevaaaa.... Racism is racism..be it color of your skin, or your ethnic background. Just like jyapu is dergatory so is Madisey. There is no internalization of these terms. Its clear what it means...You are confusing yourself and others..It would be nice for once if you just keep quiet and not talk bullshit... for a while. Cause you are not making sense. |
| Bitchpatroll | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 11:20 AM
Yo Yo Yo ma peoples, I have been sayin' it all along..Minder here is got a serious case of REVERSE RACISM. He only sees the rest of Nepal being descriminative towrds him..he does not see his own bias towards other NEPALi folks. This two faced donkeys ass is never going to meet face to face because of his bias. He only know how to pick out the negative aspects..he does not see the positive things he has gained from Nepal. But hey thats his loss ... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 07:20 PM
BP, you and your twin BC, are but a side show......... |