| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| ashu | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 12:58 AM
Hi all, Even though Paramendra may not need this defense, I felt like posting this, especially after seeing comments against him in that "democracy in China" thread. I don't know about all you other Sajha folks, but I, for one, am sick and tired of some ANONYMOUS guys ALWAYS and personally attacking Paramendra Bhagat on this site, as though our collective' silence on the issue then becomes a permissive license for such slimey attackers to go on attacking Paramendra all the more. No one -- and certainly not a fairly well-known and recognized and identifiable poster who always does add some value to this site -- deserves this sort of REPEATED harassment, time after time. I, for one, am NOT always going to be mere speactator -- and I say that not to butter up Paramendra, but that this sort REPEATED harassment is just wrong. I mean, it's one thing to agree or disagree with Paramendra's ideas and thoughts. It's even OK not to like him personally for whatever reasons. But these repeated PUBLIC attacks -- on UNELATED threads or elsewhere - are totally ridiculous, offensive, unacceptable and shows the utter khattam-taal of the attackers. Whereever his mother is from, regardless of what color his skin is, Paramendra is a aluable member of sajha, like every other 1000 unique users. So what if Paramendra repeatedly brings up the tarai ko kura? If you like it, read it and add your thoughts to what he says; if not, then ignore his postings. How difficult can this be? Come on, sure, disagree -- even vehemently -- on matters of ideas. But let's ry hard to make sajha.come free from useless personal attacks based on one's mother and one's skin color. oohi "tired of all these senseles attacks" ashu ktm,nepal |
| Junkie | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 01:15 AM
I second that. Argue the views not with the person. Tara kay garnay, Professor haru lay bhujdaina. I say, "Grade my paper, why do you give me demerits for citation or lack of it :-)" ..... oops I meant :-( |
| batauli | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 01:33 AM
Agree and Disagree: As long as Paramendra uses his personal preferences and hatred for certain groups of people to present his arguments in a PUBLIC forum, and provides NO substance or counterarguments, everything after that is a fair game... He can choose what and how much information to divulge, or at least be able to manage such information. Sajha has seen enough examples of BP and twin BtrmCoffee disappear into thin air... I would not worry. One cannot control thoughts of others, but can certainly in some creative ways channel those so that they don't eventually become Paramendra bashing... batauli ko dui sabda |
| Biswo | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 01:33 AM
Ashu, You are right. But we know, Paramendra is a pachyderm fella and is irrepressible, I hope these faceless racists attacking him will notice that soon. -- People don't understand that badmouthing a person is not an effective way to prove a point. It actually undermines their own point, it obscures what they are trying to say, and it eventually impairs their own cause. I disagree with Paramendra in a lot of issues. But I defend his right to be as rightful Nepali as rest of us. If he is not taken in RNA, he needs to be taken if he fulfills all other criteria. If he is manhandled , heaped racial slurs just because of his complexity, then that is shame for all of us because it only demonstrates how justified he is in his grievances against majority of Nepal. Any attempt to inject venom of racial intolerance shouldn't be tolerated. We must collectively resist that. |
| M.P. | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 01:50 AM
Talking along Biswo's lines, one thing we all need to learn is to RESPECT other's views. I do not agree with Paramendra's views 90% of the time [seems like we are both think Nepal should be a republic and that counts for 9 of the remaining 10%:)]. I personally respect Paramendra for having a gut to stand amidst Pahadis and speak up for "underrepresented" Teraibasis. "I don't agree with what you say but I will, till death, protect your write to say it" [Voltaire. Not the exact quote]. For those who do not understand the significance of right to speak and keep on following Paramendra, all I have to say is: "Khuttaa taandai gara" [Kunti Moktan]. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 02:07 AM
Khutta tah tane hunchha ..... tara remember khutta tanday, you do have to bend down ..... aba Aashirbad pani mage hunchha. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 02:23 AM
Just when I was about to get embarassed thinking, oops, yet another thread with my name in the subject line, perhaps this by some OP, after MP and NP, well, Ashu, I think this is less about any person - me - and more about community standards. Words are telling, and so is silence. Has the hate speech bothered me? Yes and No. Yes, in that hate speech is hate speech, hate words are hate words, ethnic slurs are ethnic slurs. Of course they are a bother, individually and on behalf of a community. But also no, because what I have been subjected to here is nothing compared to what the Madhesis get subjected to out in the streets of Kathmandu or in the corridors of power in Nepal. Bottom line: Sajha is no Nepal. This is a cyber community. And people need to speak up when they see something unwont happen/said. And so I am glad the voice has finally been raised. Let their speech be protected, even hate speech, but let the speech of the sensible people be louder, and more prevalent. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 02:30 AM
Lau Paramendra dai ...... "let the speech of the sensible people be louder" ..... what about ....what about us? ..... (trying to sign, tara might be a lil *high* pitch? |
| Junkie | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 02:31 AM
sign=sing |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 02:43 AM
Junkie: I stand corrected. Let the speech of the sensible be louder, and let the singers sing. Dil khush? |
| Junkie | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 02:48 AM
Hash Sarkar ..... ani sutna pardaina :) |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 03:11 AM
Okay ----- bye! :-) |
| Junu | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 06:51 AM
Ashu thanks for bringing this thread."So what if Paramendra repeatedly brings up the tarai ko kura? If you like it, read it and add your thoughts to what he says; if not, then ignore his postings. How difficult can this be? " Paramendra is always offended . Whenever he writes something, people just make fun of him especially BITCHPATROLL dude always offends him. Personally I don't know Paremendra but I am using his writing to write paper for my class. They are very informative. |
| czar | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 05:02 PM
Parmendra B. makes a marvellous target. He invites many a gun to swivel his way, ever the alluring duck in the shooting gallery. All that buckshot fired his way... Still flies, despite the tail feathers in disarray at times. I view his as a reminder in the lessons of democracy. He has every right to speak, whilst I have the freedom not to listen to him ! Oh joy ! Thats not to put a halo on the fellers head either. He still hasn't a clue who the Sacketts are, and that, to my mind, is a serious handicap for a feller who wants to be guv'ner of Oregon. Even if he doesn't know what 'baar sign' is, he still got my vote. Cheers! |
| NP | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 05:51 PM
Dear Sajha, With my friends, I think I am also integrated in your mudslinging subject matter. Usually, I stay away from any controversial topics. But, I must say something here. Notice that I have written my thread with ‘good’ sense of humor, and also that I haven’t trespassed his private property and attacked his personal life or his political hype. If you don’t see eye to eye, you can re-scrutinize the thread and extort any odious mistreat. http://www.gbnc.org/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=7875 Parmendra said the thread was less about him and more about ‘community standards’. I sturdily agree with what he said. It was supposed to be hilarious, which I had explicitly (in bold letters) cited on the top of forum. So, what are you fussing about? You can’t merely invade our ‘freedom of speech’ unless we are harmfully attacking him. Mr Bhagat has summoned us “Pahadiya Bahadurs” numerous times. Of course, these racial slurs don’t hassle me at all because I am pahadiya ‘by birth’. I candidly respect him for what he is. Also, not to mention, Mr Bhagat is a true advocate of his ethnicity. But, we have RIGHT to make hilarious scenarios and retaliate his advocacy and based upon his acceptable and unacceptable behaviors in sajha. Now, I am inspired to make another “humor” thread on Ooohi Anshu:) I don’t know anything you, but I will try to make the best out of what I perceived from this thread “defending Parmendra.” How about that? Don’t worry. It will be very very funny:) Parmendra, You got mixed up with OP, MP, QP, RP, or whatever. Are you paranoid by surplus driving?;) You don’t baffle with my brother M dot P dot within?????? Do you? I know my brother M.P. is very bright and distinct; nobody in Sajha can be akin to him. However, get this in your head…NP, a new comer in sajha, is totally a different individual who has good sense of humor:) NP |
| krishna | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 06:22 PM
Ashu! It is remarkable and outstanding work from you to defend Paramendra with all this personal attacks going on against him. You should have started this thread a long back, dont you think??? As far as I know and as far as I have been actively participating in this Sajha bulletins which is now been for about 2-3 month, Paramendra has been constantly attacked. I am sure that, it was going on before I arrived in Sajha. My point is, it was going on for a long time. So why are you defending him now?? Why now??? Why didn't you do it before?? Is it because you were attacked too??? Don't forget that he used racist slurs and prejudice based comments towards Nepalese people. I dont have any problem with him filling this Sajha thread with his encyclopedia and dictionary of postings. But when he says comments like, without his views, the postings here in sajha are not relevant and for that matter horrendous, then I have a problem. We all know its never too late to do the right thing but Please do answer my queries in proper etiquette. Kind Regards, Krishna.. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 06:47 PM
Thank you Ashu, for your initiative to voice against the personal attack a fellow Sajhaite, Paramendra Bhagat, is receiving from a few posters continuously while other fellows seem to be choosing to remain silent perhaps due to the distance they find themselves at from Paramendra’s strong views and ideas on sensitive subjects and perhaps (my assertion) the sharp, undiplomatic and bold language Paramendra uses. What is happening is not right. You should be disgusted with the attack. And you should be bothered by the silence. As Paramendra also asserted it is about the community standard and about sending a message to the voilaters, it is not about how great or not so great Paramendra is. I have found, not so rarely, very respected posters encouraging/rewarding posters like Bitchpatrol for attacking/ridiculing Paramendra, directly or indirectly, in words or by tone of their words. I do not expect a perfect world in Sajha and I am aware of the prejudices/sensitivities an average non-Madhesi Nepali harbors towards Madhesi Nepali. However, what is happening against Paramendra is intolerable and should be challenged. Personally, I do not agree with all of Paramendra’s views. But I will always defend his right to express his views. I may agree with some of the views of BitchP or Junkie, but I will always defend Paramendra from being attacked by them. On a minor note, lately some poster have started to cite Paramendra calling Pahadiyas ‘Bahadurs’ and use it against him. Fellas, I am well aware of the circumstance/reason Paramendra did it. He did it not to insult Pahadiya community, but in response to calling him ‘Madhise’ again and again. I approve that. These stupid Pahadia must get a taste of name calling. Muji Bahadur ho ! Lajja bhanidiyen, ajha lasta ma rey kya ! Thank you Biswo, M.P., Junu and Krishna for your frank and right voices. |
| ashu | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 08:20 PM
Nepe, You've said it well. *********** Again, let us agree or disagree with Paramendra -- even vehemently and in strong tones. But let us not go after him personally, using racial slurs, using his mother's references and so on, especially in UNRELATED threads. Paramendra has been critical of high-caste Nepalis, yes. But his criticisms are GENERAL enough so as not to target anyone in particular. The same can't be said of the attacks that have been made against him personally. ******* Krishna wrote "As far as I know and as far as I have been actively participating in this Sajha bulletins which is now been for about 2-3 month," Krishna, I have been on sajha (GBNC) since March 2000, and I have fended off many attacks against me and have also defended quite a few posters and non-posters. There is NEVER a right time to defend somene from constant attacks. Your question: why now should perhaps be why not now? oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| czar | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 09:58 PM
Nepe, Perhaps you understand well Parmendra's rationale for doing what he does, in the style that he does it. Not all are so priveleged I am afraid. I don't advocate hostility and don't support personal attacks. Yet, BP and others also have the right express their views, however unpalatably presented. I struggle with the notion that they somehow have lesser rights than Mr. Bhagat. How BP et al choose to exercise their freedom of expression is entirely up to them. If they are viewed as not prescribing to the thought that one can disagree without being disagreeable, then its entirely their choice isn't it ? They have the freedom to make that choice. I agree fully that Mr. Bhagat has every right to be free from persecution and abuse too. It hasn't been an entirely pleasant experience for him I am sure. If, however, he were to engage in deliberate provocations, then he must also be fully aware of the responses he is likely to garner. I do not imply its somehow his fault. Merely point out the joys and pains of freedom of speech. On a side note, it has often angered me to watch the treatment meted out to vegetable vendors, even intervened on occasion. Agreed, our southern people often face a horrible situation and it needs remedying. All it takes is a change of attitude. This is good a place as any to start. |
| neonepali | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 09:59 PM
the conspicous absence of BITCHPATROL in this thread is unbearable. the real BITCHPATROL please stand up!! a few months back, after seeing bitchpatrol ridicule and personally attack paramendra, i had voiced my despair to him. it is nice too see that people in sajha do care about the 'niceness' within us. |
| NP | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 10:11 PM
Anshu....Double Standards !!! I know you take Parmendra to the edge of river with friendly grins, and cast him as the bait for your fishing!!! "Speak for yourself....you have the audacity to go after Paschim and Arnico...in an irrelevant thread" I think this much is good enough for draining your spinal cord for now!! If you challenge, I can speak for myself!!! NP |
| diwas k | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 10:30 PM
Defending Paramendra? I don't think he needs any defending. He stands by what he believes in, presents his views (sometimes quite murky), discusses, debates, and floods the gbnc.org messageboard. Isn't that the holiest thing to do down here? I don't know why he does what he does and how he does, and I don't see the need to know those right now. Besides, his posts are too long anyways.. and going after those URLs he provides is a days hard work. So I don't know if I would agree with his views or even form any opinion.. padhne mauka pani paunu paryo ni!! But he would be missed if he decided not to be here for the simple reason (at least for me) that he is so far the ONLY voice at gbnc.org of the Terai basi Nepali. Posters, whose real identities are just a few clicks away, will always be faced with these bekaam_ka_kura hurled at them by anynomous posters. It will be a real problem for a long time. But life must go on... and somethings are here to stay... Keep posting _diwas |
| Junu | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 10:31 PM
Np, I don't know who the hell are you. Why you want to irritate people? Ashu is just defending paramendra in this thread.Why you want to attackt Ashu by saying "Speak for yourself....you have the audacity to go after Paschim and Arnico...in an irrelevant thread" Stop talking like"If you challenge". You can't challenge with Ashu. He is Intelectual person. Learn good things from him. I think you are the same MP who blamed Ashu as a rapist. If you really want to challenge Ashu, write your full name. Don't hide behind the PARDA ok. Good night. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 10:50 PM
Junu... ji Obviously, you have no idea what NP is talking about..... !!! I suggest you spend a little more time on the threads before you let your contextual unawareness (ignorance....if you please) flash its brilliant dhipdhipey light! |
| Junkie | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 10:59 PM
Kay yesto dheknu paryo .... achhamai .... kalle po jaal garyo ...... Timee hamee "sajha" lai ..... Tesai gaja-chor dosh lagayo :-) Sorry might be out of context! Bore lagyo, tesailay :-)) |
| Nepe | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 11:30 PM
Czar, This is my first conversation with you. Let me use this opportunity to tell you that I read your postings with a great enthusiasm. You have a great writing style. Your postings are immensely dense, deep, smooth and flowing; in a word, sophisticated. And when you flirt, oh boy, no rival can even think to stand on your way. Our megastar Sitara must have reasons to call you a knight in the shining armor ready to rescue a damsel in stress in a minute’s notice. May I ask if you don’t mind to rescue a tad in distress too ? hehe ! > Perhaps you understand well Parmendra's rationale for doing what he does.. Yes, I think I understand Paramendra and his style well. Cuz I think, were I a Madhesi, I could be worse than him ! Hehehe. >I agree fully that Mr. Bhagat has every right to be free from persecution and >abuse too. It hasn't been an entirely pleasant experience for him I am sure. Are you kidding ? if I had been attacked like him since TND (The Nepal Digest) days, I would be living in a mental institution by now. It is the thick skin of Paramendra and some rare sympathetic gesture of good people that saved him. As Biswo ji warned above , Paramendra is a pachyderm fella and is irrepressible. Like Biswo ji, I too hope these faceless racists attacking him will notice that soon. >..Yet, BP and others also have the right express their views, however > unpalatably presented. I struggle with the notion that they somehow >have lesser rights than Mr. Bhagat. Throwing racial slurs and harressing constantly, I would struggle to tolerate that. Look at Bitchpatrol. The only purpose, declared by himself, he registered this alias is to go after Paramendra and he has been honest and faithful to his purpose. He is clearly obsessed with Paramendra. I think he is sick. I would like to hear authoritative opinion of students of psychology, any Sajhaite ? > I do not imply its somehow his fault. Merely point out the joys and pains >of freedom of speech. This is probably a good piece of wisdom Paramendra has already learned very hard way. Ki kaso, Paramendra ? >On a side note, it has often angered me to watch the treatment >meted out to vegetable vendors, even intervened on occasion. Truly a knight in shining armor. No kidding hai ? Seriously, I never understood the pain our Madhesi brothers go through until some kids in Sithamadhi called us, a group of Pahadia young students in India tour from my campus, Saalaa Pahadi Bokaa ! Anyone ‘Saalaa pahadi Bokaa’ sharing this kind of experience ? |
| ashu | Posted
on 09-Nov-02 11:56 PM
Yes, NP. I did challenge - quite strongly in fact -- what Paschim and Arnico had written up about on that National Planning thread. I was happy to challenge them, for my challenge -- as you must have seen -- did bring out a lot of interesting details (re: how policies are thought up about, drafted, planned and delivered in Nepal) and other RELATED stuff that perhaps would NOT have come out in this public forum, where, at times, let's face it, it seems that people are happy to praise one another to the hilt for just keeping their nose clean. I would welcome both Paschim and Arnico and anyone else to challenge me on the basis of my ideas and thoughts anytime anywhere . . . and add to my learning and knowledge. By now, you must have figured out that I do NOT mind being pointed out -- either by my seniors or my juniors -- where my flaws in reasoning lie and where my gaps of knowledge are glaring. I believe in creating and then learning to manage this sort of "creative conflict" so as to learn from others. And I am passionate about learning. Now, let me ask you specific questions. But did I call Paschim and Arnico names? No. Did I make fun of their mothers? No. Did I make fun of their ethnic backgrounds? No. Did I tell them to go back to where they are from? No. Did I bring in UNRELATED information just to humiliate/ridicule them? No. Did I divulge contents of private conversations to create a rift between them and others? No. Did I delve into their backgrounds and make veiled and false statements to give meat to the personal attacks? No. Did I become miffed and then stop engagng them altogether in their other threads from there on? No. So, what does all this tell you? I play tough even to the point of driving some people up the wall, but I try to play fair, and stand behind what I write while knowing that ALL My postings are OPEN to challenges and criticisms all the time. It is in this spirit that I created this thread: That is to say again and again: Attack Paramendra's ideas and thoughts, even strongly and in vehement tones; but stop attacking Paramendra for the color of his skin, for reasosn where his mother is from and for others such khattam reasons. That IS the distinction that I want you -- the younger brother of M.P and a journalist to boot -- to understand before you continue to confuse a) the attacks on the thoughts and ideas, with b) the attacks on the person either verbally or physically. a) is quite different from b) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:03 AM
Np, thank you fr your question. With answers all formulated in my head, I was actually waitng for someoe like you ask that question. So here goes my answer. Yes, I did challenge - quite strongly in fact -- what Paschim and Arnico had written up about on that National Planning thread. I was happy to challenge them, for my challenge -- as you must have seen -- did bring out a lot of interesting details (re: how policies are thought up about, drafted, planned and delivered in Nepal) and other RELATED stuff that perhaps would NOT have come out in this public forum, where, at times, let's face it, it seems that people here are happy to praise one another to the hilt for just wiping their nose clean. I would welcome both Paschim and Arnico and anyone else to challenge me on the basis of my ideas and thoughts anytime anywhere . . . and add to my learning and knowledge. By now, you must have figured out that I do NOT mind being pointed out -- either by my seniors or my juniors -- where my flaws in reasoning lie and where my gaps of knowledge are glaring. [This is so because, some time ago, I talked about he importance of having a BIG self-confidence and a SMALL ego and the two -- though cnfused by our fellow-Nepalis to mean the same thing -- are QUITE different.] And so, I believe in creating and then learning to manage this sort of "creative conflict" so as to learn from others. And I am passionate about learning. Now, let me ask you specific questions. But did I call Paschim and Arnico names? No. Did I make fun of their mothers? No. Did I make fun of their ethnic backgrounds? No. Did I tell them to go back to where they are from? No. Did I bring in UNRELATED to the policy-discussion information just to humiliate/ridicule them? No. Did I divulge contents of private conversations to create a rift between them and others? No. Did I delve into their backgrounds and make veiled and false statements to give meat to the personal attacks? No. Did I become miffed and then stop engaging with them altogether in their other threads from there on? No. So, what does all this tell you? I play tough even to the point of driving some people up the wall, but I try to play fair, and stand behind what I write while knowing that ALL My postings are OPEN to challenges and criticisms all the time. It is in this spirit that I created this thread: That is to say again and again: Attack Paramendra's ideas and thoughts, even strongly and in vehement tones; but stop attacking Paramendra for the color of his skin, for reasosn where his mother is from and for others such khattam reasons. We in Sajha -- al 1000 of us unique users -- deserve better. That IS the distinction that I want you -- the younger brother of M.P and a journalist to boot -- to understand before you continue to confuse a) the attacks on the thoughts and ideas, with b) the attacks on the person either verbally or physically. a) is quite different from b) Again, many thanks for your question. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| czar | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:23 AM
Nepe, You're a scholar and a gentleman. Might I exclaim that your wit matches your prose ? I have no qualms about denouncing racial slurs and do so unequivocally. Its a truly demeaning and wrenching experience. To have to endure it constantly would, as you put it, have led us mere mortals to the loony bin. That Mr. Bhagat as yet maintains some degree of levity is admirable and attests to his strength of character. Hats off to you Mr. Bhagat. What I venture to question, however, is whether BP etc. enjoys the same rights as Mr. Bhagat in sajhapur ? If there is to be freedom of expression, then all must be able to partake of it equally. Then again, SanGod can hit the mythical 'Del' key and effectively end the argument. |
| lonely | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:32 AM
Paramendra does not need any defending, does it? Do you param ji, an intelligent and a profound writer need any support? I don't think he needs any as he has been well clarifying with ideas and thoughts. Tara, tarai base ra pahadi oesnot sound good to me, we all are Nepali no matter where we are, Himalayas, Hills or Tarai, right? |
| czar | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:42 AM
Nepe, There's a rumour about that I disappeared round the bend, duck in arm ! |
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:42 AM
Just like that energetic Arnico-Ashu-Paschim thread morphed into an informative discussion on the Singha Durbar bureaucracy, I hope this one morphs into how our prejudices play out in normal, day to day social interactions.
|
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:58 AM
Junu: "Personally I don't know Paremendra but I am using his writing to write paper for my class. They are very informative." I have never felt more honored at this site! :-) |
| nepal2000 | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 02:12 AM
Good people eventually raise their heads and speak up against unjust and unwarranted attacks and harrasment. I applaud. Rabies infected dogs and bitches run around and soon enough die in a sewage spewing out of smelly bathrooms. Some of these people have nothing else to do other than show their venomous fangs (nichha parera) whenever and whereever Paramendra shows up. When you see your face in a mirrow, you do 'meow' and run away. You have no courage - you pussy cats. Go get a life. If not go get some somat. If you don't like to read someone's postings, then don't. Who is forcing you? Helloooo, is is too hard to understand you retards? Yes you have freedom of speech. But you very well know there are limitations to your freedom. If you ever cross the line, you could be sued. If you live in America, you could be deported. Don't take your anonymous identities too seriously. Some times pack mentality among human is quite interesting. I was amazed (and disappointed) that some very unexpected individuals joined the pack attack. If you live in Madhes or if you have friends or relatives who live in Madhes does not make you less of a bigot. It is defined by your behavior - either you are or your are not. Ask yourself. You are a bigot once you judge people by the color of their skin instead of content of their character (just borrowing the gem). If you have an intelligent point to make, then say it. Don't start with "Oh, I know how it feels to be a Madhesis because my relative lives in Madhes" or "I live in Madhes". Just so you know, I am a pakka Pahadi. If living in Terai for a couple of months makes me Madhesi - so be it :) [Funny, people of Kachhaad and Langauti culture call a Madhesi "Dhotee". Also, Dhunga ra syaula le safa garne haru, Madhesi lai "Lota" bhanchhan. Ha! And they think they are insulting Madhesis! Have some shame, pussy cats.] |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 08:15 AM
Paramendra the Professional Provocateur! Just some observations since I have started posting in Sajhapur: first: -Paramendra is one hell of a smart guy! He knows how to push people's buttons. And he does so goodnaturedly and gleefully. -Paramendra is well read, well informed and diligent....He uses these virtures to "play" the "thick skinned" abooj. -Paramendra thrives on initiating discussions,.....any kind!!! And from the reactions he gets, he meticuliously notes down small details in his Proverbial black book (this, for future reference). -Paramendra thrives on attention...any kind; as long as it has the word "Paramendra" in it. -Paramendra provokes his attackers by flaunting his "vulnerable" spot..his "Madhiseness"; flaunting, taunting and daring people to embark upon yet another tirade of discussions where Paramendra is the center of attention! That is his bait!!!!!!!!!!! And those who take it swallow it hook, line and sinker!!!!!!!! -At times of lull, Paramendra will post his wife's pic...as a bait (with an intention of starting social discussions.....ya!) and yet again Paramendra triumphs as people jump into the forray giving him exactly what he wants: A heated discussion about Paramendra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Paramendra has learned to take in insults "good naturedly" because he usually initiates it!...He is in control of the attackers' emotions....he knows how to get under their skin! He has the last laugh! -Paramendra has a filing and storing system which is impressive ....all tied up in threads ans links too...will not hesitate to let lose the lassos at anyone...especially, those who DON"T want his links! If he were an animal, he would be a packrat! -He reminds me of a shrewd, khunkar politician who will do anything to get into the news... even invite hate!!!!! He thrives on any kind of attention:neative or positive! It is called negative publicity! My conclusion, Paramendra is smarter than Ashu gives him credit for! he is beyond being run off cyberia! Paramendra is one hell ofa smart guy.....and HE ends up getting the last laugh! And Ashu's avenging Paramendra's reputation comes nothing short of being condescending and patronizing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 08:27 AM
typos: virtues |
| SimpleGal | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 09:52 AM
Paramendraji, Before I left for my little work related trip yesterday, I read this thread. And like you said, Paramji, ms. Junu's declaration of having used your writings for her papers was, to me, the most resounding statement and indelible stamp of what and how you stand *fundamentally* here at sajha. No matter what our orientation, the voice of the many is underscored in importance, prestige, and ponderings over the voice of the one. But I for one strongly aver that often times, the one voice speaks more voluminously than its antithetical counterparts combined. I once read, don't know the source, that "Behind every revolution, there is only ONE man." Need I say more??? In peace. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 11:05 AM
SimpleGal, thanks for your kind words. Sitara, thanks for your attention! :-) It's curious you put it that way: the attention part. Honestly, I would have preferred issue-based discussions and those alone. But this site is more a hang-out place than some cyber think tank, though it can easily be both. Look at the most popular threads here - the "bestsellers" - .. they are all about the Sajha personalities: not just me, a bunch of us: you are listed in each of those yourself! But, I take it, your statements and my observations are all in good nature. In my case, I use my real name here: I don't see why I would do it otherwise. Last night I went a cultural performance cum "feast" cum dance organized by the local Indian Students' Association: I was not wearing a mask! Same principle. And there is my personal website. And my stances on issues of public importance. And, at this site, there are quite a few people I know well in person. So the interaction is not always pure cyber. And I have been voluminous. Perhaps more than anyone except YOU! Perhaps. Put all those together and you get "TNT ... dynamite ... powerload." Ha! Examples of attention!
None - except six - initiated by me .......... Examples of free speech! P.S. Why do you sound like that Russian Emperor in your observation! ;-) Something's cooking up, looks like it. |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 11:27 AM
"And Ashu's avenging Paramendra's reputation comes nothing short of being condescending and patronizing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " Sitara, Look, I am not going to fall for your verbal charm, so let's get this one straight, shall we? Though I did take the pains to say upfront that Paramendra might NOT need my defense (see the first postng of this thread), I did NOT realise people like you would see this whole effort as something like my trying to "aveng[e] Paramendra's reputation" . . . (whatever the hell that "avenging" bit means!). As a sajha visitor, I, for one, do NOT like people's hurling racial insults to make a point when there is none to be made . . . and where there are clear cases of nothing but harassment. When enough was enough, I, for one, took the risks to post my thoughts to say, well, enough was enough, and let's get on with life, while agreeing/disagreeing with Paramendra's ideas and by NOT hurling personal/communal insults at him personally. Is this a difficult concept for you to grasp . . . especially for someone like you who deals with special children? Come on!! Paramendra may or may not thrive on getting the attention he needs or does not need. But that's NOT -- let us agree -- for you or for me or for anyone else to declare as such in public. I mean, quite bluntly, who are you, anyway . . . some Tony Soprano's psychoanlayst to be making such patently absurd kind of comments about other people's VIRTUAL personalities? Besides, when Paramendra himself is on record for saying (see above, and I quote his exact words) a) "someone engaging in hate speech does not have an extended right to be propped up by the deafening silence of the good people" . . . b) "And so I am glad the voice has finally been raised. Let their speech be protected, even hate speech, but let the speech of the sensible people be LOUDER, and more prevalent." [emphasis mine] (given the above (a) and (b) bits evidence, your charges of my "being condescending and patronizing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [towards Paramendra]" sound as hollow as, well, some of the poems I see posted here. Have a great Sunday, and please do not "hajoor" me to death on account of this minor disagreement. :-) oohi "no bullshit; just straight dope" ashu ktm,nepal |
| bhedo | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 11:33 AM
LOL. Good one Ashu. I agree with you. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 11:35 AM
Paramendra Ji I am definitely amazed at your tenacity! What I have written above is an honest observation of you as a person....(cyber?). Was not meant to slander nor uplift you hajur! You, sire, have a personality that few can ignore! As for my cyber name: I would like not to mix my cyber name with my real one...... It is also called compartmentalizing! You know a matter of personal choice and deliberate action! :) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 11:48 AM
Ashu ji You just expressed an opinion and so did I, hajur! ONE Strong opinon: MP's accusation of your conniving to rape someone was A Personal attack: unwarranted, unprovoked and undeserved!!!!!!!!! And take it as Sitara's verbal charm if you will! BUT attacking someone else's dignity and integrity (Arnico's and Paschim's) is also a personal attack hoina? But we may both possess different versions of the English dictionaries, encyclopedias and thesaurus! And a whole different set of ethics too! My opinions entirely, Hajur! :) |
| czar | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:08 PM
To the Gallery, rogues included. I WILL support Parmen's RIGHT to express his opinions. Just as I support EQUALLY the rights of those that oppose him to express theirs. Its of no import to me just what their opinions or grievances are. Au contraire, I find this all hugely amusing to watch. I congratulate Parmen, as I have done earlier, on the skill with which he gets such dramatic results. An interesting observation is that neither party has been adult enough to accept that each of them may have some responsibility for the present ugly impasse. Can one side be truly blameless ? Consistently, without fail ? It has to be, right ? Of course ! Parmen's snide remark about 'sounding like a Russian Emperor' indicates to me that the conspiracy theories abound, are alive and well in his thoughts. Robert Ludlum for winter reading ? I'd reccommend 'The Road to Gandolfo' by the same author ? Its a comical farce. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:31 PM
"...Was not meant to slander nor uplift you hajur!....." Sitara, you have never ceased to be on my good side. Rest assured! :-) "Parmen's snide remark about 'sounding like a Russian Emperor' indicates to me that the conspiracy theories abound, are alive and well in his thoughts." Sorry. I was just trying to have some safe fun at the expense of you two flirting souls! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:31 PM
CZAR!!!!!!!! You DA Russian Emperor?????????? hehe!!!!!!!! I thought you were Spanish! Don Quixote; my knight in shining armour! How dare you change cyber personalities!!!!!!!!!!!!! at the click of the mouse in the house! But on second thoughts, people still hung up on that? :) |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 12:36 PM
"BUT attacking someone else's dignity and integrity (Arnico's and Paschim's) is also a personal attack hoina?" Sitara, You are jumping from one topic to another, of course, to "fasao" me, as it were. But like I said, I like you as a sajha visitor, but I am not going to fall for your charm. Still, to answer your question: If you go back and read the related postings, I did challenge -- in very strong terms -- certain claims made by Paschim and Arnico . . . claims I felt were increasingly one-sided, unchallenged and too "wah-wahed" As ONE result of my asking sharp questions, the ensuing discussions DID bring forth MORE information about the way Singha Durbar makes or does not make policies. Now, that's called learning, even if some of the questions did ges on some people's nerve!! Sure, you might not have liked the particular tone of my "voice", so to speak. And that's fine. But you cannot mix one thing with the other to come up with an false conclusion, like you have done here. Let me explain. If you are saying that I should never have challenged Paschim and Arnico in the first place, then, I disagree with you, and I remind you that as far as I am concerned, NO ONE -- including myself -- is above sharp questioning by one's peers on pertinent public matters. But rest assured that, contrary to what you seem to believe, I never did attack their integrity and dignity . . . for a check-list, please do read my response (in that question-and-answer format) to NP above. Sure, Arnico and Paschim might have been miffed with me and even angry at me for putting them on hot seats and forcing them to explain in GREATER details of what they actually did, while IGNORING Paschim's "you are jealous" type of unrelated comments at the time. But those are the risks I WILLINGLY took for myself, with eyes wide open. That said, if you can find concrete evidence to back up your charges of my attacking their "integrity and dignity" then,, I'd be happy to look at them and modify my views. If not, then, please do NOT see sins and lump others with charges where no sins have been committed. Surely, as a counselor, you already know this sort of thing -- ie. the need to weigh evidence carefully before passing your judgment and NOT confusing your own opinions as facts -- and do not need, of all the people, me to remind you of these counseling basics, hoina ra? oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| nepal2000 | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 02:10 PM
SITARA, As I understand, you are implying that Paramendra's postings were provocative enough to attract attacks, harrassments, and even stalking from some other posters. Would you use the same argument if someone wearing a "provocative" clothing is raped? Oh, she shouldn't be wearing those inviting clothing - extend that to he shouldn't be posting inviting/provocative postings! Is that it? Blame the victim? As soon as someone dropped Paschim's name, you jumped in. You have been critical of Ashu since Ashu-Paschim exchanges. What's the matter girl? :))) [You know a bunch of Sajhaiites are trying to get that Lami's pagari] Khoi, nahune belaa Poorba herera ARATI(S) garna lagya ho kee :) Paramendra is thik skinned, capable of defending himself, mentally fit enough to weather the heinous attacks and harrassments doesn't mean other good people in Sajha keep quiet and watch helplessly. Peace. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:05 PM
Ashu ji Obviously, we don't see eye to eye! And, I don't intend to go point by point into details about the whys and wherefores of why I choose to disagree with you! Obviously, We (you and I) work from a different set of ethics! Nepal ji YOU have Missed my point! I have NOT condoned any kind of personal attack. But, if you choose to interprete it so.... So be it! As for the "Rapist scenario", I am not even going waste my breath....because it is irrelevant! As for attacking Ashu ji... If you delve into the threads where MP has accused Ashu of trying to rape a woman.... I have been quite vocal against such an attack on Ashu's reputation, dignity and image! Now, if that translates into my trying to "dhoop jalawo" (or doing arati) at Ashu's direction (which happens to be Purwa too), well, what can I say (at such a thought)except....chew on it, regurgitate and try digesting it! :) |
| bhedo | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:09 PM
Sitara hates the guy coz he went to Harvard and is a lot smarter than her ass will ever be. Too many jealous mo fos over here. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:25 PM
I hope this thread which was launched as a stand against personal attacks against yours truly does not end up being a launch pad against anyone else! :-) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:41 PM
Bhedo ji Since you mentioned Harvard: I do sincerely wish that you get into the top 5 colleges in the country! Might require a little more effort on your part! But you do seem interested and diligent enough on getting the right scores in GRE scores! .... And now about language use..... the professors of the ivy league schools Do emphasize on refined vocabulary and elaborate semantics! If you don't know what that means, I suggest you read any book by Hayakawa.... A linguist and an expert on language and semantics use! Good luck! |
| paramendra | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:46 PM
"...... the professors of the ivy league schools Do emphasize on refined vocabulary and elaborate semantics.." :-) |
| nepal2000 | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:47 PM
Sitara: You wrote: -Paramendra thrives on attention...any kind; as long as it has the word "Paramendra" in it. Really? Even Bitch and Bathroom's attention? -Paramendra provokes his attackers by flaunting his "vulnerable" spot..his "Madhiseness"; flaunting, taunting and daring people to embark upon yet another tirade of discussions where Paramendra is the center of attention! That is his bait!!!!!!!!!!! And those who take it swallow it hook, line and sinker!!!!!!!! You must be out of your mind! No one would want attention of the ilks of Bith and Bathroom. -At times of lull, Paramendra will post his wife's pic...as a bait (with an intention of starting social discussions.....ya!) and yet again Paramendra triumphs as people jump into the forray giving him exactly what he wants: A heated discussion about Paramendra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could it be an innocent thread? Would you give him a benefit of the doubt that you have given to others? -Paramendra has learned to take in insults "good naturedly" because he usually initiates it!...He is in control of the attackers' emotions....he knows how to get under their skin! He has the last laugh! Why don't you believe him when he says he doesn't like THAT kind of attention (from Bitch and Bathroom)? -He reminds me of a shrewd, khunkar politician who will do anything to get into the news... even invite hate!!!!! He thrives on any kind of attention:neative or positive! It is called negative publicity! Again, you are losing it, SITARA. So he is "Khunkhar". He even likes negative attention! Hmmmm. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 04:58 PM
Paramendra ji :) Thanks for keeping me on your good side! Is that your right or your left side? Nepal ji Do you know anything about the concept of playing "the devil's advocate" ????????? You throw anything (the good, the bad, the ugly) out there to see, gauge and understand the splash it causes.... and the ripples it leaves! Only, the shrewd can dare play such a game.... and I rest my case! :) |
| czar | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 08:38 PM
It is very interesting to note that in a thread discussing personal attacks, one is launched against Sitara. Parmen, your words proved prophetic. So, this Johnny come lately resorts to obscenity and I quote it as saying "he went to Harvard and is a lot smarter than her ass will ever be. Too many jealous mo fos over here. " When a person resorts to abusing women, its a clear indication of ability and class. I say, she probably has more quality and class in her stinky left toe that you will garner in this life. If the same brat has a limited vocabulary and has to resort to vulgarity, I tell ya, try smoke signals. Its less demanding on the cranium. Ya light a fire with a some newspaper, get a blanket and flap over it the smoldering mess. And the message transmitted will be thus: hot air. It is interesting to note that this whippersnapper further considers himself the ultimate authority on matters he obviously has no grasp of. The notion that the only determinant of intellect and ability is the schools one goes to. Anyone who has not attended Harvard is immediately relegated to the backwaters of stupidity. Einstein, had the gall to show up with his wacky theories. How dare he, the bum, he never did attend Harvard ? Now lets see who else, oh yea, Steve Wozniak..how dare he design the Mac ? Lets see your credentials..hmm..no Harvard. Off with yer head. Now lemme see, radar.. the one device that has had a huge impact on changing the course of WWII. The stupid bloody limeys, how dare they invent it without attending Harvard? No wonder their empire went kaput. The inventor of the Walkman, how dare SONY engineers innovate without showing up in Boston and at least standing in harvard square prior to making the product? The nerve of those unforgivable wretches. |
| czar | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 08:49 PM
To the gallery, rogues included. Do what you want with your time and resources, fight as much as you wish. I couldn't give a hang. What I do care about is the treatment meted out to the womenfolk here. In my book, all present are ladies and shall be treated with respect. If they prove to the contrary then walk away.Just DONT ABUSE WOMEN. That I will not tolerate. So let this be fair warning. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 08:55 PM
Save me your lecture. My IQ, according to this site: http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/GREIQ.html is 151. And I'm just 22. And people who go to Ivy League Schools have higher IQ than people who go to, say, some shitty third tier University. IQ isn't just about one aspect you're good in; it measures how well rounded you are. So, just writing poetry doesn't make you intelligent. Is the person in question also good at solving analytical problems? How fast does his/her brain work? These are some of the questions that IQ tends to answer. So, I'm probably smarter than most people here. I don't need to show it to you all. I know I am. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 09:04 PM
hoina yaar bhedo ...... third reich ko bhandai mah hepna pani mildaina yaar. Chitta dhukyo yaar ..... tara you are right, sabai yesmart bhaye ko not-smart. Barbaad chha life. |
| Junkie | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 09:05 PM
oops I meant third tire hai ..... Padhnay bela gaja tira lagiyo, aba saab lay hepchan! |
| bhedo | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 09:09 PM
Tyo ta thik bhanyau, tara I got to teach this nincompoop a lesson. He doesn't seem to know the difference between colloquial english and formal english. Tara ma ke garne. It's his education that's showing. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 09:11 PM
CZAR ... My stinky little pinky??????? haha! Hajur ko writing lai ta mannai parne ho! .....And there are those who dare think with a mind akin to swiss cheese and brains operating like echoe chambers..... thoughts resonating, reverberating, vaccilating and resounding like the age old adage of the empty vessels set adrift in a sea of ignorance!!!! Bhedo ji... I am sure YOU are impressed by your IQ. I pray the ivy league schools are NOT....well at least not the way you seem to be! :) Still, good luck! |
| bhedo | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 09:13 PM
Ivy league schools are not the way I seem to be? That doesn't make any sense. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 10:05 PM
Alright,I gotta sleep. So, we'll continue this tomorrow. Sitara, thanks for wishing me "luck", in a way. It's not my IQ score that they'll want to know, it's my GRE score. Sooo, my IQ score isn't insignificant. I was merely pointing out to that idiot...uhhh, what's his name?.......that I'm not as dumb as he thinks I am. You said you're in Maryland, right? I think I know you!!! You're cute!!!!!(okayyy, I was just scaring you...). May your man( and I hope he looks like a chimpanzee) sweep you off your feet and take you to some faraway jungle in africa..... Take care. |
| czar | Posted
on 10-Nov-02 11:34 PM
Bhedo, You are correct in assuming I am a nin...what ? damn..I can't spell words that long, let alone comprehend them. Anyways, for losing my cool and resorting to name calling, I am guilty as charged. That too with a recent minor. What I don't accept is uncouth behaviour. An eye opening display on a another thread directed specifically at Sitara. More of the same on this one as well. Why does an intelligent and classy woman make some men feel insecure and threatened ? Perhaps they aren't so much the man they wish they were. Does it lead to nail biting insecurity ? Its something that gains credence when I see the responses here. I just wonder, is it cultural ? Does Nepali culture condition the males to think of themselves as being superior? Is this expressed in the the need to assert this at every given opportunity. Especially when faced with capable, independent and successful women. The method of choice to do this, of course, is the dismissal of their opinions. Failing that, then get downright hostile and abuse them in the foulest terms. Then feel smugly superior flaunting one's insecurities. Er.. I meant capabilities or what passes for them. If pieces of paper and standardized tests were IT, then its heresy to contemplate that some of the most successful people didn't quite have them. Take Jack Welch, he is dyslexic. He would score terribly in the standard IQ test. The Wright brothers didn't, regrettably, ever attend Harvard either. Nor did they have suitably placed hyperlinks to do evaluate their IQ. Come to think of it, they didn't have hyperlinks then . What jerks, those Carolina brothers, to have even had the gall to exist in such an age. A discussion, argument even, requires that the disagreeing party be capable of making some semblance of sense of the arguments put forth. In the absence of which, its an exercise in futility for me to continue. Especially in light of the fact that the other party is incabable of disagreeing, merely being disagreeable. I rest my case. |
| bajai | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 10:31 AM
ashu and p, it is sometimes wise to pause and think, why is what is happenning, is happenning? paramendra, have you ever done that? when you follow the ideology: an eye for an eye, can peace be anticipated? granted, you wish to be vocal about a good cause, but spewing vehemence in retaliatioin isn't such a good option, is it? a noble cause with flawed foundations gets you----into this mess. |
| Poonte | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 11:02 AM
I am tempted to renounce my alliance with the Bolsheviks--I humbly embrace you, The Czar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lemme know it you ever need a hit man, free of charge! ;) |
| BathroomCoffee | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 11:16 AM
all you folks defending Paramendra...here it is.. I kept quite. I was only a mere observer before the whole Bahadur Issue came into play. Just like he has the right to voice his opinion...I have the right too. To top it all when he refused to call himself a Nepali [getting free everything(from education to scholarship under nepali quota) from Nepal] that just blew the fuse. Once he used the Term BAHADUR then its all a fair game...I am quite surprised that Being Nepali all u are defending him...ESP Mr OOhi |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:31 PM
On second reading, Sitara, I second nepal2000's observation that some of what you say amounts to a blame-the-victim attitude. And the metaphor of "provocative clothes" are apt. I would like to draw your attention to this paper: The Intersection of Race and Gender Relations: A Contemporary Perspective http://www.geocities.com/bhagat266/c/racismsexism050500.html |
| Bitchpatroll | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:34 PM
uh ohhhh !! Here we go again Mr Minder is Pimping his college paper again like a PIMP DADDY... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 01:46 PM
"....you wish to be vocal about a good cause, but spewing vehemence in retaliatioin isn't such a good option ....." I apologize for my one/isolated/technical use of the term "Bahadur." Now will all those who have ever used the term "Madisey" at this site take their turn and apologize, and renounce use of the term? See your double standards, do you? For the longest time, this site has had a silent audience that just does not see much wrong when hate terms are used against the Madhesis/Teraiwasis. But those same silent, "good" people come running to "correct" me. Double standards? Afno aang ko bhainsi na dekhne, aroo ko aang ko jumra dekhne? "....when he refused to call himself a Nepali [getting free everything(from education to scholarship under nepali quota) from Nepal] that just blew the fuse..." I have elaborated on this topic a few times by now. Just like the term "mankind" is not inclusive of women, the cultural term "Nepali" is not inclusive enough of Madhesis. For if that term also includes the Indians of Darjeeling, but does not include the Maithili speakers of Bihar is proof of it not being inclusive enough of the Madhesis of Nepal. And as a legal term of citizenship, it deliberately excludes about 33 lakh people who have been denied that piece of paper called the citizenship certificate. If the term wishes to be inclusive enough, that impasse needs correction. I went to school. I received part funding from HMG for which I don't feel thankful for to ANY "Nepali" at this site. The whole attitude that it is YOUR country and I need to be THANKFUL, or people like me need to be thankful for being there --- that IS the problem. Being a Madhesi in Nepal is not to be a second class citizen. Much as some characters here would have you believe. Because of that piece of paper, that country is as much mine as it is yours. And my gripe with BNKS is that it claims to be the national school but less than 5% of its students are from the Terai. I don't need to particularly express thankfulness. What I need is an apology for that disparity, and a remedy to correct that discrepancy. |
| hard_ | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 02:09 PM
--> Just like the term "mankind" is not inclusive of women, the cultural term "Nepali" is not inclusive enough of Madhesis.--> When you were asked where you are from by some stranger in some street in some foreign country, there's no issue of one being a Madhesi or Madhise or whatever the lingo u like to call it. DON'T TRY TO ENVELOPE YOUR SORRY ACT WITH YOUR PATHETIC POLITICAL PROPAGANDA. When you prefer to say you are from INDIA to people around the globe, you don't have any RATIONALE to feel anything about the people of NEPAL and what they prefer to call you. In this forum, what I've seen so far is, as long as people participate in your discussion and Agree, you are fine with but as soon as one VOICES an opinion of distrust and ambiguity and obnoxiousness in your ideas, you blatantly try to put them off LABELLING them either as:
|
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 04:13 PM
hard_ji, I see your frustration. Could you please tell me where exactly did you read where Pareamendra says he is not NEPALI? I am sorry, I don't read many postings which seems just a rhoeteric and I may have missed that out. It is kind of ironic and would like to read the context before reacting to it. I would be totally disappointed on this. I have many many Teraibasi Madhesies friends who are so proud of being a Nepali. If it is true, then a person who seems to be well educated like Paramendra sounds like he is LOST and CONFUSED or he is just pushing Sajhaites to their limits for some hidden agenda!!!! - iti |
| hard_ | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 04:32 PM
http://www.gbnc.org/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=7708&show=all#18672 and http://www.gbnc.org/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=7708&show=all#18839 might interest you too. You can derive your logic and make some sense about the unsensible ones. ----------------------- Sayonara from this thread. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 05:03 PM
Paramendra ji About "provocative clothes": Well, seems like you found a piece of thread to chew on! Go ahead, chew on it, floss with it if you have to, get it out of your system but pray leave me out of your verbal hygiene! I am not interested in discussing your personal agendas and pet peeves! |
| kasiram | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 05:04 PM
"And my gripe with BNKS is that it claims to be the national school but less than 5% of its students are from the Terai. I don't need to particularly express thankfulness. What I need is an apology for that disparity, and a remedy to correct that discrepancy." yes Mr. P, you are right on the money. Since I from tarai as well, let's demand an aplology for other disparities we see in our society. lets speak aginst those organizations where taraibasi are not equally represented. How come they are so few or hardly any tariwasis who are mountain climbers or porters? why is it only sherpas? its an instuationalized discrimination against the people of tarai. I demand an apology from the sherpa community. I demand an apology from Radio Nepal which only gives the daily weather forcasts of other tarai places such as Nepalgung and not not eastern tarai places such as Birtamod or Chandragadi. Another unequal representation of tarai regions and direct "we don't give a f*** about u guys" attitude shown by the people of Radio Nepal which is in ktm. I hope your with me on this Mr. P. I want RN to say "birtamod ko adhiktam tapkram..." strating tomorrow morning and a formal apology for keeping all the eastern tara basis under the dark for all these years beacuse of which i still do not know the official average tempertaure of any places east of Ithari. I demand an apology from all the panwalas of ktm for not making paans as mitha as the mitha paan made by the panwalas of tarai, especially the ones made by eastern tarai paanwalas. when tarai basis are in ktm, they deserve a mitho mitha paan if nothing else. last but not least, i want an apology from king G himself. Why can't a taraibasi be a king for once? homecome its always the shahs of ktm? are we incapable of being kings? I hope Mr P will rally behind me on this since we are fighting for the same cause. equal representation and equal opportunity for taraibasis. |
| lonely | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 05:09 PM
Paramendra alone is enough for rest of the forum ho ki kya ho? And the amount of posting Paramendra had done is probably the highest ..I think hai..I have not calculated and don't have to do that either. Tara it looks like its Paramendra Vs nepali (pahadi...po ho ki the term he uses??) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 05:17 PM
Kasiram hajur! Damn you are good! And, I was born in the upatyaka.....against my will!!! I wanted to be born in Chitwan...! NOt only that, I was born in a "third world" country!... I had to leave my matribhumi because of my birth! And now...I am culturally displaced, lonely, belligerant and absolutely annoyed at having been a brain-drain of my country! And I blame the stars for that...if not my Fate!!! And all this globalization "crap" makes me realize how insipid my birth has been...although, I don't deny that I happen to live in the US, Life has been UNFAIR!!!! Why can't the world be a better place...why can't we all have been born "FIRST WORLD" ???????????????????????????????????? |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 05:32 PM
"And I blame the stars for that ....", hmm STARS? TARA... SITARA...????? Any LOGIC in why you chose the name SITARA? :] Just a diversion - this thread is TOO THICK for my Logical Brain..... |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 06:23 PM
hard_ : If I say discrimination exists, and you say it does not, that is a difference in opinion. If I espouse federalism, and you don't, that is a difference in opinion. And we can agree to disagree. But ethnic slurs are not a difference in opinion. Come talk to me on the specifics of the various issues I have raised. Be my guest. You have the option to not ready anything I post. I am a Nepali citizen. My mother's side of the family is from India. Culturally I consider myself a South Asian, as that term more fully describes me. That has been my statement all along, misconstrued to fit the twisted Indophobic minds that come and go. Logical Sense: How do your Madhesi friends who are so proud to be Nepali feel about the plight of the Teraiwasis in Nepal? Just curious. Sitara: Looks like you are taking a break yourself. To each his or her own. The fact remains that you said what you said. And the metaphor of the "provocative clothes" is fitting for your gender. Someone else pointed that out, and I agree. Kasiram: In your attempt to sound a cynic, you actually raise some valid points. A Madhesi might not become king, but could become President in a republican Nepal. Why not? The trekking industry is in the private sector, but the civil service is not. And even in that industry, if there are barriers to entry for the Teraiwasis, that can be a legitimate cause for concern. Radio Nepal does need to offer a big apology for its large scale exclusion of the non-Nepali languages. The paanwalas in Kathmandu. I think they do a good job of catering to the market demand. Lonely: Yeah, it is getting lonely out here! ;-) Are there any other Madhesis in cyberspace at all! Or some open-minded Pahadis, for a change? Sitara: Don't even get me started on racism as a topic as it plays out in the global arena! Like Kasiram, you make more sense than you realize. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 06:42 PM
Sitara, with all due respect, I would like to invite you to this other web destination. I hope you will click on the link provided, come along, and join the fray. Let the discusssions begin: Parallels can be drawn between the Sajha discussion on the Terai issue and the MonitorTalk discussion on the race issue. One can enrich the other, or so I believe. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 06:49 PM
Paramendra, my Madhesi friends feel 'at home' in Nepal and they are proud of being Nepali. Having said that, yes there is discrimination, yes there is Pahadi, Madhesi, Kathmandu feelings but WHERE IS NOT (after more than 200 hundred years of democracy is US out of discrimination)? But, all of us consider this is OUR problem, it is internal to all Nepalese. And we need to work on it. We need to do better job on it. That is why all of my friends are all CONTENT in being a Madhesi.... We not only have Madhesi descrimination but we have many other social unjust, equally important. You seem to tent this as an 'Bi-Lateral' or 'Foreign' problem, I think that's where all Nepalese in this forum alienate from you. I am thankful to all my Nepalese Madhesies that Nepal is yet to see any Madhesi uprising/terrorist (can you even imagine that, nobody will be able to stop the uprising - shear number of people will roll over Kathmandu). But, you know the fact "Teraibasi Madhesies are Equally or even More Nepali than any Nepali from any parts of Nepal" and thank God we don't have many Paramendra's in Nepal (I strongly retract my earlier point when I said - I wish we had more Paramendra's). When we were college students lots of 'Paramendra's' friends from nearby India used to say 'Tell Us We will do all the terrorizinig in Nepal' during any Strike etc. But, I had many of my 'Paramenra' type of Madhesi friends who always used to say to them 'Nepal is Off limit to you guys, keep us alone that is our sacred land, we will deal with it, it is our problem'. In Madhes that kind of Paramendra I know. That is why I had all the respect for you, but, I think you have tarnished your image. Of course I still love all of my Paramendra friends in Nepal! They will never do any harm to Nepal and Nepal's interests! You are talking you being half Nepali, but, many of my Paramendra's were all Indian recently migrated and they had full faith and love about their adopted country. - iti |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 07:30 PM
"....but WHERE IS NOT (after more than 200 hundred years of democracy is US out of discrimination)? ..." But look at the social transformation ---> from slavery to no slavery, from segregation to no segregation. Things have changed for the better, and continue to do so. And the change has to be engineered. It does not happen on its own. "...And we need to work on it. We need to do better job on it..." That is how I feel. One does not have to be a Madhesi to work on it. Any more than that one has to be a woman to feel strongly against sexism. "...and thank God we don't have many Paramendra's in Nepal ..." What do you mean? I have all along talked of electoral politics to make the gains. "..I think you have tarnished your image. ..." On the other hand, I feel my opponents have the urge to demonize me so I become an easier target for attacks. It is a tactic on their part. I am for constructive dialogue. |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 08:22 PM
Three days away from Sajha and you miss out a heck of a lot, dontya? :) well, when i first saw the title of this thread "defending paramendra", i went, hmmm defending? that also Paramendra? for what? isn't he strong enough to defend himself? then i read ashu's and the first few comments and understood the gist of it. Thank you Ashu for bringing this issue. Can't agree more on what you, Biswo and Nepe ji have already mentioned. Param ji, I don't think I need to tell you how i think about you as i'm sure you've already understood throuh my delivery of your acceptance speech. :) However, I just want to mention that you are an amazing personality...for someone who's able to withstand such vitriolic comments from certain sajhaites and continue to strive in this forum with such vibrance is for sure commendable. Hats off to ya! I totally agree that it is something to disagree or agree about issues but totally different and unacceptable to throw dirt on someone's character and background thus hurting his esteem. The other day I was having a conversation with a friend of mine over the phone and he said- Dilasha, i know i've been the topic of people's discussion so many times, the main subject of their malicious gossips in the east coast, i also know that i don't have a proper degree, a proper job, and smoke the holy smoke most of the time but god darn it I'm happy and I don't care if people talk bad about me, in fact when i hear such things then i feel that i am an important person to them hence i don't feel bad about it all..... I want to tell you a similar thing i told my friend Param ji.....these people who visciously attack you; either they are extremely threatened by your presence in sajha hence their hatred towards you or they absolutely love you...and you know what i think the truth could be? They ABSOLUTELY love you....they can't live without you Param ji, because THEY are the ones who love you so much that if they don't find your posting, they'll be shattered, just like the drug addicts devoid of drugs who go berserk in search of their power bar that'll help them sustain, these are the very people who will miss you a lot when you disappear from Sajhapur which i hope will never happen of course. Isn't that a wonderful feeling? Deep within those words of hatred and animosity, I can see their love and affection towards you, and therein lies the beauty. And to see or not to see, (which i'm sure you have) is upto you Param ji :) |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 08:34 PM
Dilashaji, sorry for ignoring your point.... Paramendraji, you are missing the point. There is no 'dialog' needed here. Unless you start saying 'it is OUR problem' there is no need for dialog with YOU. Definitely there should be dialog with all those Madhesies who have adopted NEPAL as their home land (not with YOU), similarly there could be dialog with all those Tibetans who wants to adopt Nepal as their COUNTRY. If you think you are Indian, then even Nepali Madhesies will not like you to represent them, PERIOD. I think they have much more dignity than asking Indians to represent them for their RIGHTS in Nepal. That is my piont nothing else. - iti |
| Junkie | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 09:34 PM
Dilasha jyu ..... hmmm did you mention drugs somewhere ..... let's talk more about it :-) Parmendra bro: Dunno about others, my hatred for you stems from the fact that you (might?) spend more time online than me ..... tara kasari? |
| NeoNepali | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 09:39 PM
>>But look at the social transformation ---> from slavery to no slavery, from segregation to no segregation. Things have changed for the better, and continue to do so. And the change has to be engineered. It does not happen on its own. How are you trying to engineer the social change Mr. Bhagat? I see no constructive arguments in your opinions, infact i see no remedies. All you do is rant and rant and rant! I am astonished that people of your caliber having some political know-hows continue to spit anti-Nepali 'sentiments' and expect us to join your discussion peacefully. You say that you are a Nepali citizen, but 'culturally' you would like to be identified with maithili speaking Biharis. I don't have a problem with that, infact i am proud when Indians living in Darjeeling identify themselves as Nepali. But they are Indians afterall, period. So what are you trying to say when you constantly repeat the phrase that you are south indian and the term 'Nepali' is not inclusive enough. When you and your beautiful wife have some kids, with whom are they going to identify themselves with? are they going to be errr..'world citizen' because i have no word in my geographical vocabulary to link a Nepali and an American. It is my politics however that i am INDOPHOBIC and proud at that. But this phobia has nothing to do against any Indians, it is simply against the state and their hegemony and so on. You treat the word INDOPHOBIC in such a way that it is a crime to be one, but i am one. Why i am one is a different topic but i am an INDOPHOBIC. Coming back to the original statements made by you that USA has progressed in its racial realations, i think you live in a fantasy land. Yea i agree that people do not utter N words in public but you and i both know what goes through most of their minds. If this cosmetic 'progress' is what you are fighting for the Madhesis than boy they are unlucky. If you want to make me a believer, be inclusive and do not provoke me. If you want me to think before i address you as a 'madhisey' then i would also like to request you to be sensitive about my pride and the love for my country. peace! |
| kasiram | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 09:57 PM
Yes Mr. P, you are right on the money. You said “Radio Nepal does need to offer a big apology for its large scale exclusion of the non-Nepali languages.” I could not have said it better myself. Why is that we don’t have programs on Radio Nepal that are in other languages. I want to hear RN programs in limbuvasa, tharuvasa, chaudarivasa, maithalivasa, newarivasa, Sanskrit vasa(want more of it) any many more vasas. On Saturday afternoons in nepali natak on RN, I am tiered of hearing Sangeeta say to Pradip “Pradip, malai chodera najaoo Pradip, timi bina yo sansar andhyaro cha Pradip. Ma timro bachha ko aama banne wali chu Pradip” only in Nepali. Wouldn’t it be nice to hear Sangeeta say this line in all the other languages as well? What a wholesome program that would be. Just like the oreo cookie. Both black and white. That is the kind of world I want to live and that is the kind of world I have imagined for my kids and my kids’ kids. But then again, I also believe that kids should not be having sex. So I do not really worry about my kids’s kids. And if adds such as “mitho sapanako lagi pyanther” and “ guruba: raju timro daant ta moti jhai chameko cha ni. Raju: kina nachamkosta ta sir, dabarlal danta manjon jo prayog garchu” were aired in all the non-nepali languages, we would have fewer starving kids out in the street and less kids with bad breath and more kids with healthier and brighter teeth. So I believe it is up to you and me Mr. P to resolve this problem once and for all. For Sangeeta does not represent the nepali girl next door that we knew growing up. Because Nepali was not her first language. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 10:02 PM
Dilasha, those words are strong and affectionate. Thank you. They are mature. Logical Sense: You have decided to join the flock. You are probably right: there might not be dialogue between us. What dialogue with those who deliberately twist words posted barely three or so posts above yours! Junkie: You thingamajigger. NeoNepali: Quite a few contradictions. "I see no constructive arguments in your opinions.." Please scroll up and check out one of my earlier posts where I talk about what's wrong, and how those wrongs can be righted. You seem to have hit a roadblock/mental block with cross-cultural marriages and cross-cultural children, don't you? No wonder you have a hard time grasping the sense of identity of someone like me who is not even the product of a cross-cultural marriage, just a cross-border one. It is one thing to hold a policy discussion on India-Nepal relations, quite another to be Indophobic, an irrational fear of everything Indian. Maybe you should translate your grasp of race relations in the US to the social situation in Nepal. Then you will better understand the Madhesis. "If you want to make me a believer, be inclusive and do not provoke me...." Why don't YOU try and offer a few solutions to the ethnic problems in Nepal? Maybe you have better ideas than I do. "...before i address you as a 'madhisey' ..." You are not going to use what is equivalent to the n-word. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 11-Nov-02 10:04 PM
"...For Sangeeta does not represent the nepali girl next door that we knew growing up. Because Nepali was not her first language. ..." I am with you Kansiram. Sorry, Kasiram. The non-Nepali languages need their due place in the national psyche, something that has been denied them. |
| NeoNepali | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 01:21 AM
>>You are not going to use what is equivalent to the n-word. >>I apologize for my one/isolated/technical use of the term "Madhisey". need i say more. >>It is one thing to hold a policy discussion on India-Nepal relations, quite another to be Indophobic, an irrational fear of everything Indian. "agulto le haneko kukur bijuli dekhi tarsincha". May be the cruel policies of Rajiv gandhi to block our borders from the rest of the world, making Nepal come to a stand still hasn't faded away from my memory yet. May be the "Delhi sawari" of our political leaders more than often to get blessings from Indian leaders cannot be digested by my nationalistic pride. May be the bully pulpit India uses to its advantages when signing treaties with us hurts my Nepali ego. May be..... So my concerns for my Nation is irrational to you. How about your irrational fear of everything 'Pahade'. From your postings and opinions i feel like you are suffering from PAHADEPHOBIA. Why not hold policy discussion rather than provoking sentiments? >>No wonder you have a hard time grasping the sense of identity of someone like me who is not even the product of a cross-cultural marriage, just a cross-border one. Mr Bhagat, i think it's you who is having a hard time grasping the identity of yourself. I for a change simply answer 'Nepali' if asked where i am from. If they would ask me further, then i would divulge to them my cultural and physical history. The point i am trying to make is that your literature espouses hiidden sentiments that you would not like to be called a 'Nepali'. I get the sense that somehow Nepal is just a land where you got your citzenship, no more no less. You have to understand that i (and many) Nepali feel ashamed that a fellow Nepali values his country at such low esteem. >>you should translate your grasp of race relations in the US to the social situation in Nepal. Then you will better understand the Madhesis. As far i am concerned, there is always this fear amongst the majority that the minority are dangerous. That when push comes to shove, people always tend to side with their own race, religions etc. I have friends who were practically chased away from an Indian college because he fell in love with an Indian girl. I have testimonies of people living in terai who have experienced whole 'gau' or 'tole' of Madhesis of Indian decent attack them for trivial matters. I have testimonies of 'bahadurs' and 'kanchas' being dragged out of 'chiya pasals' to be beaten to a pulp by hordes of Madhesis of Indian decent. 'an eye for an eye' is not what i am preaching. I believe that we should have legislation banning such discriminations, and there is one in Nepal. Now all we can do is hope for the best and work towards bringing people together. Your anti-pahade rants only helps to divide us Nepali into more fragments. 'sancho huna lageko ghau lai kotyayera ke faida', but pour some more medicine so that it can heal better. You are right that i have an extensive knowledge of racial tensions and discrimination that goes around US. I have been using that knowledge to enlighten you, but i believe it is easier to straighten out a kukur's puchhar than your puglist mentality. I for one believe in Martin Luther Kings approach rather than LA riots. i rest my case. (translation = i need some sleep!) peace |
| paramendra | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 10:39 AM
Isolated Freak has started an interesting thread. I am glad the feelings are being vent: |
| BathroomCoffee | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 11:00 AM
What do want now Pramendra (big ego baboon)..So what ? Are you happy now ? Do you know why there is INDOPHOBIA ? or do we need to give you more reasons ? |
| SITARA | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 04:56 PM
Parmendra ji Your quote: "Sitara: Don't even get me started on racism as a topic as it plays out in the global arena! Like Kasiram, you make more sense than you realize." Start you up????????? And after that you are fully automatic?????....is that a Promise or a Threat??????? :P CZAR: It takes all kinds to make this place an interesting one to live in!!! :) Logical Sense ji: SITARA: Absolutely, Logical user name hajur! :] Bhedo ji: Guilty as Charged! I AM Cute, hajur!!!! Finally we agree on something! And if I have met you in MD.... you must have totally blinded me with your brilliance! Tis a Pity I Don't follow the Scent of A Brilliant Bhedo.... My olfactory glands cease to operate when IMPRESSED by such malodor! |
| bhedo | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 05:57 PM
Guidance counselor huh? Don't you need a PhD for that??????? |
| SITARA | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 06:06 PM
Good question! Educational Counselor.... need an M. Ed. for that.... :) (one will suffice!) but going for my 2nd MA/ Phd. at a bottom- tierd school!!! :( Ke Garney hajur.... My IQ did not quite match yours! I sorely lack in that dept! But seriously: Have you decided what you want to be when you grow up? A Sheep or a Goat? |
| bhedo | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 06:12 PM
Going for MA/PhD huh? Well, I just wanna be your husband when I grow up, Sitara. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 06:37 PM
Bhedo ji.... Mwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! :) Maybe next life hajur!!! Es life ma ta line laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamo cha ! :P |
| bhedo | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 08:31 PM
Well, I'll just break into the line and get in front. No biggie. Aba ta chance cha ki?????? Ah, someone just gave me a cyber-kiss. I now know the meaning of bliss........ |
| nepal2000 | Posted
on 12-Nov-02 10:34 PM
Hehe :] Enjoying the dohoree between Sitara and Bhedo. Bhedo, Arkai juni ma bhaye pani aasha ta rahechha. Good luck for the succes in this juni though. Saas bhainjel aas. Sitara, you know he is only 22? You know generally females have longer life expectancy. So it might work out just fine :)) IF you two hook up, you will have to find an isolated place to settle down. Else the neighbors will do birodh/julus. Eek jana le Bhyaaaaa garne arko le Myaaaa (Oops, Mwaaaa) garne :) LLCC Peace. |