| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 10:01 AM
Hi all,
Dipak Gyawali -- the Nepali polymath -- has just been sworn in as the new Water Resources Minister of the Kingdom of Nepal at the grand old age of 52.
.
I just wanted to congratuate Dipak Dai on his being the Minister of the Ministry he
knew very, very well, as its outspoken critic.
oohi
"no, I am NOT related to him, but have known him for the last 12 years"
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| baje1 |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 10:18 AM
I never expected him to accept the position- He is indeed an opportunist. How could he join this Panche government
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| dirk |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 10:28 AM
cause he's one of the best for the job. Duh!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 10:42 AM
Dipak Gyawali's career (trained in the former USSR as an engineer and at Cal Berkeley
as an economist and, by his own account, refused to complete a PhD) and his varied intellectual interests have long fascinated, and even inspired me -- though I do NOT share all his views.
An afternoon spent guffing with him is always well-spent.
There are plenty of people who don't like him, and that's fine.
On a larger note, it'd be very, very interesting, even educational, to now watch
this ultimate critic be a part of the Establishment to do his best to:
a) help solve the Maoist problem.
b) help Nepali consumers pay lower bijuli rates, without distorting the bijuli markets.
Both are issues that require NON-PARTISAN and apolitical expertise that people like Gyawali are more likely to bring to the table than someone like any of the disgraced Nepali Congress honchos, for instance.
If Gyawali fails, then, he will fail on his own terms, doing damage to himself.
If he succeeds, then we all will benefit.
Here's a toast to his measurable success!!
I can only imagine and chuckle at the faces of those at Nepal Electrical Authority tomorrow morning!
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 11:49 AM
Dear Ashu,
Congratulation to you for having your "Dipak Dai " in council of ministers:-)
If he says he 'refused' to complete PhD from Cal Berkeley, then it definitely means he is some what unconventional guy.(We will sooner or later find out if that is true! Or it would be great to know if he left Berkeley after passing PhD prelim or before passing!!) In fact, he surely is an unconventional guy. Until some days ago, I saw him bemoaning politics of exclusion, I even read somewhere him extolling virtues of democracy, and it is really so consistent with his those ideas to see him wearing daura-suruwaal-dhaaka-topi to join the puppet government that ignores the reconciliation plea of national parties, and includes people like Kamal Chaulagai and Ramesh Nath Pande.
Now, I can't congratulate Dipak for being minister. He didn't earn it. His degree didn't provide it. He didn't earn the confidence of people to be minister. He is not my minister. He is the king's man.But I surely like to congratulate you, my friend, for having your 'Dipak Dai' in this great council of ministers.
BP once said, "I don't understand the intellectuals of Kathmandu. They don't support democratic forces. They just criticize without offering any solution." (In his atma-britanta) Despite his other weaknesses, BP was right in his comment. We don't understand KTM's intellectuals. At the time when the king is obviously undermining the essence of democracy and national reconciliation, some intellectuals are visiting local haberdasher in Baagbazaar to buy new daura-suruwaal for their swearing-in, and others are congratulating those who managed to sneak into the marionette-sque council of ministers.
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| wy |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 01:08 PM
Biswo:
:-)
Maybe he is planning to fight from within. What's wrong with that? How is it different or worse from what BP did by surgically stiching his neck with that of the King's neck for democracy? Or for that matter what Dr. Shankar Sharma did: resigned on moral ground and then became the VC on the basis of moral obligation.
Or Surya Bahadur dessimating forest resources to win the referendum for the King only to be bitter about the Royal move when they got him. Or what about Mr. Nepal taking down the pictures of his idols (Marx and Lenin) when the American Ambassador came to visit him.
Politics makes strange bedfellows. So, DG is a small fish in the scheme of things known as the Grand Design, so leave him alone. Even getting lower electricity bill will be quite welcome which would be more than what the rest of the ba****** are doing to the country.
Your point about the high moral horse that DG was riding before wearing the Daura Surwal is quite intriguing. Please elaborate on this. I have not been following his horse, so I don't know much about it.
Your point about the Berkeley Ph.D. is very interesting too. :) Once I had heard about a person in Nepal who, upon his return from the US with a MS degree, told everyone that his reason for not accepting an offer to do Ph.D. was that the CIA was following him around at Columbia (I think!).
:-)
Peace!!
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| kewl |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 01:19 PM
Biswo ji..
sorry King did not make u minister...and made Deepak ji minister instead....It's amazing how king made him minister when from last 12 yrs we had all ministers with Phd. Once I was listening to FM inaguration and minister repeatedly said MF for FM...OHHH how can deepak ji be compared to those great ministers.....i agree with u..lets not congratulate them...cuz we r kuwa ko bhygutas...cant do anything by ourself..and cant see positive if others are trying to do something...
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| protean |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 02:06 PM
Deepak Gyawali is definitely an intellectual and a scholar , and his interests are varied and many. I do appreciate his writing skills and the penchant to grasp and lucildy present different subject matters.
However, I am not aware of his executive, policy making, and implementation skills. To be a critical thinker is one thing ( and a great attribute to have), but to be a critical thinker and also be able to formulate polices while being able to execute it with zeal, clarity, and with success, is a whole differnt ball game. There, not only do you need technical expertise, but you do also need more of management, people, and above all diplocmatic skills.
Deepak Gyawali did a Masters in Resource Economic from CAL Berkeley , and NOT a Masters in Economics. This program is a JOINT program of three discliplines of environmental science, civil engineering, and probably economics, and is not a separate department by itself. Students are normally awarded PHD in this program owing to lack of funding because of its joint nature.
It is good that we've an expert of this field in the Ministry and he should be congratulated for this appointment. However, the modalities involved for his appointment (and him taking such an appt. with the current system) is not something we can discuss very fairly.
Let's wish him the best for this appoitnment and all the success! Hopefully, he'll be able to come with smaller scale projects --that he always was fighting for during the ArunIII discussions-- although, the system might prefer to tap on the immense water resource potential-- that Nepal possesses-- by opting for larger projects.
[Hope, he'll be able to get some treaties with India signed, and get a long term plan worked out.]
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| protean |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 02:10 PM
Students are normally =Student are NOT normally
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| kewl |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 02:15 PM
Constitution and sovereign are the words used by few so called intellluctulas and nepalis (NOT ALL PLS!!!!!) living in USA. Sparsha you have written all what I wanted to say...King G is a brave king...i agree its a gamble...he knows better than others its a gamble..GO king G..now either its you or Baburam..
Personally I like to see King g wining this game..cuz..cuz maobadi will make it worst..
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 02:15 PM
What do we want? Do we want Madhav Nepal to lead a cabinet? or do we want to see GPK as our leader? or May be Prachanda? Was not GPK's cabinet was also a puppet government? Yeah, instead of gyanendra, girija was pulling the strings. UML government? was it not a puppet government? where did prashrit got all the money to build a grand house in kathmandu? RK Mainaliji? what about Mahakali sandhi? who did that? why bamdev left uml? cause makune was chocking him and others with his strings. why did bamdev and the company come back to uml? cause they didn't have any strings to play with. Now, let's come to deuba govt. was it not a puppet govt? khum bdr. gupta. wagle and the company were at the strings. In fact, none of the governments in the past 12 years (I am taking 12 years because that's when we got the best system in the world "democracy") have truly worked for the people. now, it seems gyanendra is the controller of the strings. what's new?
It's fine when a prime minister in his own wish goes to the palace and asks to dismiss a soverign body elected by the sovereign people. it's again fine and constitutional when a pm goes to the palace and says, "maibaap, everybody out there are saying push this election away...so here I am ....sardinu paryo sarkar". Did he do his homeworks? Did he really read the constitution? did other political parties read the constitution before going to the pm and asking him to defer the constitution?
Leaders in nepal scream and cite constitution every time some thing happens that does not benefit them. when CIAA grills khum bdr. that's fine but when it calls sujata, gpk says now this is the conspiracy to bring down the democracy. yeah, as if democracy is lurking on sujata's butt. Politicians in nepal are full of "purbagraha". there are very few people who think for the fellow citizens. most of them are opportunists and rarely think beyond their self interests. When all party delegation was waiting to see king and show their solidarity, king left for gorkha. When king came back, they (all party folks) wanted to see king together again. When king said no, they went one by one and kangress spoke against uml, uml spoke against kangress. why couldn't they maintain their solidarity?
what is the constitution to the majority of nepali people? what percentage of the population has heard what the constitution is? How many people know what is in the constitution? how many people know what does those constitutional articles and clauses mean to them? how many people know and how many people care?
Does Chhatra man limbu who is struggling every single day in a remote village of pachthar give a damn whether he is a sovereign citizen or not? what does it mean to Ramdulari chaudhary in mahendra nagar what rights does the constitution secures for her? every time she goes to CDO's office, same bhates are there who don't give a damn if Ramdulari is sovereign or not.
Constitution is nothing but a piece of paper unless people care to know what the constitution is for. nepal is not that stage yet. people have other important stuff to think about these days than reading constitution. Once a friend of mine took me to a village close to indo-nepal border. There after walking here and there we lost track whether we were in sovereign nepali territory or already entered a foreign soil. We approached a hut and asked a guy sitting on his charpai..."is this india or nepal?" he casually answered, 'what do I care?". It did not matter to him whether he was a nepali or an indian.
When people are conscious and know their rights no one can snatch those rights from them. if people don't care or don't have time for such rights, then those rights either get ignored or abused by others.
I don't care whether uml or kangressi or any other parties for that matter are represented in the government. I don't care who forms the govt. king, uml or kangress or some other parties.What I care, though, is if the cabinet is sincere in doing its business. can it deliver what people desire? can it think beyond party line? can it devote itself for the betterment of the nation and the people? if the answer is yes, then that's good enough for me. I care less who is the string master as long as the people and the nation benefit. let's be aware of rights first then no one can fool us. we will draft the constitution the way we want when we know what we want.
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 02:17 PM
sorry, for posting twice. When I posted first, I got some error. So, I posted again. San, if you are reading this can you please take my first posting out? thanks.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 02:43 PM
>Maybe he is planning to fight from within. What's wrong with that?
wyji,
We don't want opaque governance in our country. May be he is planning to do this/may be he is planning to do that, we don't know.In democracy, people go to government first by telling common people what they are gonna do once they go to the government.
All I know is Mr Gyawali (may be he is a real genius, I don't know that either) is joining the government at the moment when we were expecting 'politics of inclusion' to be implemented.
>sorry King did not make u minister...and made Deepak ji minister instead....It's amazing
>how king made him minister when from last 12 yrs we had all ministers with Phd.
Yes, kewlji,
We have real good ministers now. With all PhDs, or those who refused to complete PhDs. Oh,not only PhDs, some refused to complete lesser degrees. Some others probably refused to complete other minor capitalist degrees too (like Ojha, Chaulagai).
Also more inspiring figures are Mandal, Khapangi etc. We got real good ministers when you compare those poor, stinky people from outside districts who got votes of people. Common people and their votes, who cares, haina?
Look, you gloat at this government and jeer me as much as you want. But I know I am on the right side of the history.
Sparshaji,
It is not true that I am supporting the excesses of previous governments. But let me ask you one simple question:Do you really think poor people don't give a damn about who they are living under?Do you think for poor people, it doesn't matter what sovereignty is?
You know I came from a middle class family in Chitwan. I do care.Only in democratic society I can rise. Otherwise, I will be perennially under some elite groups of KTM.
Now, one more answer about why poor and uneducated people were elected in the last parliament. Because more than 90% of people in our parent's generation were uneducated and poor. We were like pre-Industrial revolution England just until some decades ago. If you have that pool of people to select from, how can you have representatives with Oxford degree in parliament?
Instead of perpetuating democratic values, the king has effectively tried to establish plutocracy (and of course, weirdocracy). I don't believe that a nation run by rich people is necessarily 'corruption-free'. Remember Yeltsin era USSR. Those oligarchs who were billionaires were not even paying requisite taxes. They looted nation, bought state owned enterprises in cheap prices, and at the same time, growth of USSR shrunk.In Nepal also, if you look at those who don't pay bank loans, it is not poor Nepali who are not paying them (they have to deposit their jaggaa in banks anyway), it is the rich ones, those who have contact in high level, including ,of course, the son of our Lokendra Bahadur Chanda. How can Chiranjivi Wagle be corrupt and at the same time, Lokendra Chanda be 'swachhchha'? ( I am not defending Wagle, I am glad he is going to CIAA, but the rule is rule, it should be applied to everybody equally.)
Proteanji,
Thanks about illuminating us about his acadamic career. By coincidence, during a paper presentation in Israel about water resource allocation, the cowriter of my paper is meeting a couple of professors from agriculture resource economics next month. So, I am somewhat familiar with the department.
I don't give a damn about what he did or who he is. I care how he is in the council of ministers now. And to some extent, I care how inconsistent it is for someone preaching about politics of inclusion and extolling virtues of democracy to be in a council of ministers like this.
Amen.
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| kewl |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 03:04 PM
>>>>I don't give a damn about what he did or who he is.
Biswo ji,
Are we being attacked by some virus...HATE EVERYONE AND THINK I"M BETTER THAN OTHERS...
well...just a thought...we need some antivirus otherwise it will destroy all of us...
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 03:54 PM
Sparshaji,
It is not true that I am supporting the excesses of previous governments. But let me ask you one simple question:Do you really think poor people don't give a damn about who they are living under?Do you think for poor people, it doesn't matter what sovereignty is?
***
Biswo ji, there is a difference, in fact a big difference to me, between who they are living under or who is/are ruling them. I truly believe Chandra ma mijhar in terhathum does not care whether the lion lives in Narayanhiti or in Singhdurbar. He does not have time to go that far. Poor people only care who their immediate supervisor(s) is/are. They usually care less beyond that. (my observation). There is a huge gap between poor people and middle class people, Biswoji. You know well. So, please don’t put your example when talking about poor people. Yes, I truly think it does not matter to poor people what sovereignty (in political term) is. There are millions of people in our country who have other things to worry about before sovereignty. I am not saying they will ever care. They will care what sovereignty is when the issue of sovereignty climbs at the top of their to-do lists. Not now.
"You know I came from a middle class family in Chitwan. I do care.Only in democratic society I can rise. Otherwise, I will be perennially under some elite groups of KTM."
***
Biswo ji. I also care for democratic society. I also believe only in a democratic society can I rise. But my definition of democracy may not mean much to the people who are living in double-edged sword. People have nothing to eat. Bajeko palako jagga ansa banda garda garda dui dui tukra hat lagya chha. Not many good schools are there in villages. Most of the poor students rarely pass high school, those who pass can't compete with urban school students with strong connections every where and settle for something small to drag their and their family's life. For those who are not literate, things look even worse. They are being destroyed every day more by their own elected or local leaders than by by narayan hiti or ktm. people. Only those who have left their villages and don't have to struggle for "bhare ke kham" idea are concerned with naranhiti and singhadurbur . Swasni ko chyatteko cholo, nam matrako luga lagako chhoro, muskil le "decent" dekhine luga laki chhori..maobadi ko aatanka, security forces ko dabab, hakim ra netako shoshan bata pidit janta ko definition of democracy does not match with mine. I live in the US. If the temp. falls below 70 degrees, I feel cold and turn up the thermostat. I am sick of eating chicken every day and miss kodoko roti for a change, I am sick and tired of my Honda accord. I would like to go for either Mercedes or high grade Acura at least. I want to move to a better neighborhood. I don’t like to see old-car-riding people; I hate to see utility van parked overnight in my neighborhood. My idea of democracy in Nepal sure does not match with that of jetho tamang who sleeps after drinking just plain water on a gundri in a rainyday under a leaking kharko chhano if nobody hires him to carry load from place to place.
***
Now, one more answer about why poor and uneducated people were elected in the last parliament. Because more than 90% of people in our parent's generation were uneducated and poor. We were like pre-Industrial revolution England just until some decades ago. If you have that pool of people to select from, how can you have representatives with Oxford degree in parliament?
Yes, may be poor people were elected to the parliament but how many remained poor after being elected? Is narayanhiti responsible for that the so-called leaders themselves?
I also believe king is getting bolder. He is gambling. I have said before, politics is a game of power. Politics, probably, is "the" game of power. My understanding: king is trying to discount UML and congress. He is trying his best to establish better link with Maoists. He is trying to win them over. If he ever does that, he will turn these Maoists after UML and NC if they don't line up themselves. Let's see how things go.
Before to end, I want to make one thing clear. I am not a gyanendra fan. I want to see my country and fellow nepali prosper. Since I am in a foreign land, my contribution is negligible. I am not there in Nepal to take whatever comes my way everyday. Whoever leads my nation to prosperity and peace wins my support.
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| wy |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:03 PM
Biswo:
" And to some extent, I care how inconsistent it is for someone preaching about politics of inclusion and extolling virtues of democracy to be in a council of ministers like this."
Actually, I was supporting you on your "general statement" about being inconsistent. And I was a little too covoluted in getting it through. Sorry for my "ineptness." You are right on actually! This is the disease called "situational ethics" that many in Nepal suffer from. I don't know much about DG's prognosis to go any further about him. Hence, I asked you.
Also, just listen to the leader of the Sadhvawana Party M. Mandal the way he is groweling at Girija (not that Girija is a saint.). I wonder what happened to all the democratic rights stuff that the Sadhvawana Party used to complain about under the autocratic Panchayat regime. Perhaps the situational ethics bug got him too.
Peace!!
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| Deepak Bista |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:07 PM
Sparshaji,
I salute you with my hat off for your posting with substance and I hope, you be in the council of minister soon in future.
Deepak
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| wy |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:15 PM
Biswo:
"And to some extent, I care how inconsistent it is for someone preaching about politics of inclusion and extolling virtues of democracy to be in a council of ministers like this."
Actually I was supporting your general statement about the "inconsistency," an issue much larger than DG's appointment. I am sorry I was too convoluted to get it across. Pardon me for my "ineptness." This disease is called "situational ethics" that many Nepalis suffer from.
Not knowing much about DG, I cannot make any further comment on him; hense I asked. I would love to see you elaborate on it. You have indeed a very valid point especially in light of the current situation.
Just look at Mr. Mandal the way he is groweling at Girija, who is not a saint by any means, but whaever happened to all the democratic rights stuff that the Sadhavawana Party used to complain about under the autocratic Panchayat regime. I guess, the warmth of the DPM chair has given him that disease too.
Other examples include Girija's Grand design and Deuba's CIAA bashing.
Peace!!
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| protean |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:38 PM
Biswoji,
Thanks for sharing your insights.
Just wanted to share my thoughts on the practice of getting facts right for discussions to be fair. Shedding some light as to what realities are, and how much they can/might be convoluted is what I did. Therefore, wanted to share my thoughts on the matter of the "possible PHD offer & his rejection of it" at Berkeley, a bit more transparent and lucid.
Another matter that I always didn't agree with this appointment is that it kind of contradicted the Anti ARUN campaign that they preached. At that time, it appeared as if the group was extoling the need of small scale projects , and were the typical anti establishment "liberal intellectuals".
Could there also have been an interest to gain popularity as a thinker and an activist at that time? Might have been.
Little is known what the anti Arun group did after the Arun debacle. Did they actually get more projects implemented, or did they just fashioinably decide to switch to a different career, and be an "expert" at it?
At least I am not aware what he and others who were so passionate about water resources, embarked on thereafter. There is also this inconsistency in there. For voicing concerns to a point, and possibly not following it through.
As you aptly mentioned, the need is to be consistent with what you preach. There I agree.
If you talk the talk, got to walk the walk. In the 1995 period, DG was a liberal intellectual that was fighting for the people, and the envrionment against NEA and big projects. As you allude to some time ago, he was extollng the virtues of democracy. Now, he has joined a group of mostly right wing council of ministers under the King.
Is this ironic? Yes, it is.
Was this Appointment expected ? May be not.
So, now even though he has the expertise in this field, I'm not sure whether to completely mark his words or not in the future. There, I agree with you.
But, I do hope that he could contribute, and he may have taken this position after deliberation and reflection (amongst other factors).
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:39 PM
>>>>I don't give a damn about what he did or who he is.
>Biswo ji,
>Are we being attacked by some virus...HATE EVERYONE AND THINK
> I"M BETTER THAN OTHERS... well...just a thought...we need some
>antivirus otherwise it will destroy all of us...
Kewlji,
I don't know if you said "you are better than others", at least, I don't remember anything like that in this thread. So, I can't say that about you.
Now, if you are talking about me, I don't hate anyone. I am raising a doubt. But do you remember what you implied in the first reply? Your implication was I was complaining cause I was not given that post. Well, listen my friend, I am not Gyanendra's man. I am not among those ilks of politicians and intellectuals for whom being a minister is everything.
Sparshaji,
Let's say this much, we are taking a poor man for a ride if we say he is a fella who don't give a damn about democracy.
What is democracy?
It is a principle for social justice, where those who care about popular welfare win the right to govern.
What is sovereignty?
If poor people don't care about sovereignty, how come there are so many poor Kurds, Tibetans, Sikkimese talk about sovereignty? Why poor Bhutanese care about that. Yes, in a normal day when they have sovereignty in their grip, they appear like they don't care. But as the consequence of a dictator's assuming sovereignty affects them (which is gonna happen sooner or later) they start caring about that.
Look, we don't care about AIDS now. The day its pernicious effect affects someone among us, we start caring. Loss of sovereignty is like that.
xyji,
sorry about misunderstanding.
I don't support Girija. I don't support Madhav Nepal. But I don't believe that Gyanendra or Mandal has better history than these leaders. Here is a man who didn't care about popular opinion when producing a proxy convict for his son, here is a man who didn't care about popular opinion when declaring his wayward son the prince, here is a man who was pulling string as the head of Bhumigat Giroha in the past, here is a superrich man who once paid 8% of nation's all tax (again, correct me if this is wrong, I read this in one international newspaper), and here is this Mandal fella whose history would make even a sailor blush: they have no right to rant against those who were repeatedly voted to the power by sovereign people . I don't like these Nepal/Koirala people, but that is the truth.
--
Now one argument was our leaders made 'a lot of' money in the past 12 years. I agree that was wrong thing they did. I have been against that. But who granted those tough rules to CIAA? Not the king. NC and UML made those rules. Can the king subject himself to rules like these people?
In 2046, Nepal's export was controlled by 28 families, according to a report in an international magazine I read at the time (please correct me if I am wrong). Who were they? I don't need to write here. 28 families, out of 20 million people.The 'benevolent' king was ruling us then. That was justice? Not.Equally powerful as king Birendra was his businessman bhai Gyanendra.We knew that.
We complain that Nepal's tax collection is dismal. Who is not paying tax properly? The rich people of Nepal. Who is not paying the loans of Nepal's banks? The royal families and the rich and connected ones. Chiranjivi Wagle, hated he remains, is but a small miscreant in comparison to these monumental villains who sucked the vigour of nation's economy by creating a kleptocracy.Now, people say inducting these rich people would develop Nepal.That is a fallacy.
Now, we have inducted rich people, turncoats, and so called intellectuals in this government. Fighting against these people, demon they are, are the Maoists, most of them are poors. It won't take long before this fight is perceived in Nepal as 'rich vs poor'. I am against Maoists. I absolutely don't like them. But the course of politics is gonna be that way. We can see that. And sadly, we can't stop that as it increasingly seems.
The king is reshuffling the council of ministers in a rate that only heartens the Maoists. The last time this kind of jumpy behaviour was shown regarding formation of council of ministers was during 2046. Birendra made and threw govts fast. But that didn't change anything but the whole Panchayati system. Let's see how it goes. But one thing is clear, whatever the enemies of popular democracy try, eventually people will win. This is the proven truth.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:51 PM
Proteanji,
I agree with you mostly.
About PhD, I have heard that the failure rate in Berkeley Agecon is more than half. I am not so sure but I know that program is tough to get into with an entirely personal effort (I don't know about fullbright or other government scholarship schemes). I would love to know more about that failure ratio stuffs and I hope that Mr Gyawali was actually uninterested in PhD stuff rather than something else.
Inconsistency has been hallmark of KTM's intellegentsia. I have always said this. Ke bhanne khai aru. They control media, they control a lot of things. It is comparatively easier to talk against democratic leaders, but about the intellectuals and their practice? Not that easy:-)
We can only chuckle when we see them changing their position again and again.
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| protean |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 04:58 PM
The appointment contradicts the fact that at that time , the anti Arun group, were the fashionable "liberal intellectuals" , who thought and voiced that there way was possibly a better way, and the status quo has to be challenged. Anyway, the group not going with the norms of the Nepal's politics, and bureacracy, and they had their own ciritical analysis of WHY SO. Actually, DG left his earlier position at NEA before he started his career as an independent expert in water resources.
I support critical thinking, and attempting for reforms.
But, where I don't agree is now he has sided with the King, and the current political system, which I think is not going to provide a conducive environment to practice democratic principles --- given that quite a proportion of the team of ministers are PRE 1990s faces. This fact is contradicts his (DG's) stance (of earlier years) of functioning with the liberal mindset in a democratic fashion.
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| protean |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 05:13 PM
Biswoji,
Yes, I agree with you there. I've always felt that they kind of present the facade of having a liberal intellectual disposition. Thwy control the media, and make their point of view the most heard , and maintain it as the standard and the most correct point of view/perspective. Then, when there points of view is challenged, they are the ones, who start not becoming your good friend. Is this being liberal? I don't think so.
So, how liberal is that attitude? I recall on February of 2001, Kunda Dixit actually nullified the importance of Technology,and especially the IT field in Nepal. His anlysis was done based on the bust of some dotcoms in 2001 that was reported in the ECONOMIST.
Such are our intellectual, ke garne?
I think the program is competetive but possible to get into the MS level especially on a Full Bright. To get into PHD, its possible funding, and finding the interested supervisor isn't a trivial talk.
Let's see if we get some consistency and the truth of his PHD program from his end.
|
| U_2 |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 05:29 PM
Congrats to Deepak Gyanwali for being a water resource minister!! He is probably a most knowledgeable person in water resources in Nepal. He has been impressive, when he acted as a critic of Nepal’s hydropower polices. Every article of his has been successful in tearing apart the government policies, NEA’s activities. His arguments were always solid. But, it is also a fact that he has never ever produced any solutions for Nepal’s problems or generated any new ideas!! He was once a member in the board of director of NEA, but he failed to make any difference there. In short, his trade mark has been complaining, Yo Bhayena, Tyo Bhayena. Now he has an opportunity to do something and prove his ability. He complained so much on how things were handled wrongly in Nepal. Now, he has an opportunity to make them right. Else, his career is doomed!
It will not be easy for him. Interestingly, on the other side, the present managing director of NEA is Dr. Janak, another equally competent hydropower expert of Nepal. How Deepak will deal with Janak will be interesting to watch. Janak was the one who worked very hard to bring in Arun III, and Deepak worked very hard to make that impossible!
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 08:01 PM
interesting comments.
Deepak Gyawali is very VERY unpopular among the engineers at the Ministry of Water Resources.
Don't expect anything cionstructive to happen in Nepal's electricity/sharing water with India issues in his tenure.
Now, Deepak Gyawali will know what it is like to be a Water Reosurcecs Minister and that policies/people he criticized for all these years aren't lame, dumb and stupid.
And some of the most qualified brains, even more qualified than him exist in the ministry that's next to Pratinidhi Sabha building in Singha Durbar.
Its interesting, some engineers at the Ministry must be really HAPPY because in my dealings with them theyh would always say:
"kehi thaha nabhayeko manche bahira basera yesto policy-tyasto policy banaunu parcha bhanera karaucha. tyo aafai hamro thau ma basera heros na. hami pani yaha section officer deekhi suru garera aaja yaha samma ai pugeko"
Someone who dosn't know [the inner workings of the ministry and managing Nepal's water resources] anything screams his thoat off saying this needs to be done, that needs to be done. He should see how hard it is to do our work by being "here". We also started our careers from the sectiobn officer's level and are now the chief of ..... .... ..... ...... .......... ...... ..... ."
Ashu, I don't doubt his qualification and knowledge, but he is, to borrow your own words " yesto garnu parcha, tyasto garna parcha.. [from outside]... when he knows that in Nepal, yo pani chaina, tyo pani chaina."
Writing for Himal on Arun is very different than say, negotiationg with MeeraShankar and her crew at the Ministry of External Affairs in Delhi.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 08:19 PM
Biswo wrote: Birendra made and threw govts fast. But that didn't change anything but the whole Panchayati system. Let's see how it goes. But one thing is clear, whatever the enemies of popular democracy try, eventually people will win. This is the proven truth
Wrong! Birendra did not make and threw govts fast in 2046. Marich Man's govt was replaced by that of Lokendra in 2046 Chaitra for a brief period of time, then BHattarai was sworn in as the PM of Nepal.
Also, the appointment of Chand was to make way for democracy in Nepal--to hold talks with the Congress and Communist leaders, not to preserve Panchayat.
Who is the enemy of the popular democracy? What is your definition of popular democracy? There are other forms of democracy too. plus, "popular" leaders have started to support the King's move indirectly.
The big issue was who has the "karyakarini" adhikar. Now that has been cleared by your very own popular democratic leader, KP Oli. Oli, appearing on NTV's popular talk show, Bahas said "Karyakarini adhikar mantrimandal ma cha tara shri panch bata spastikaran euta aaunu paryo".
Also read the asoj 18 bhasan carefully. it says: arko byabastha nabhaye samma ko lagi rajya satta ko adhikar upayog gari karyakarini adhikar hami ma nihit gari baxeka chau"
Sinc now there is a cabinet "arko byabastha", the "karyakarini" adhikar rests with the King and the cabinet (article 35 of the constitution of Nepal)
so, there has been no assault on democracy.
democracy is here to stay and make our life evebn more miserable (of course you guys who are abroad can't imagine what goes on in DEMOCRATIC NEPAL)
If china can achieve impressive economic growth with authoritarianism, then we should follow that model, enough of this prajatanra, prajatantra, prajatantra. I would say, Panchayat was more Prajatantric and Nepal suhaudo (a right fit for Nepal's conditions). Come on, even Padma ratna got elected from Kathmandu during Panchayat~!
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 08:20 PM
Biswo,
I enjoyed reading your comments.
Thank you.
In Nepal, I call older Nepalis "dais" and younger Nepalis "bhais".
Gyawali, 52, is much older than I am, hence I called him Dipak Dai.
You are welcome to TWIST this fact to suit your need to call Diak Gyawali my dai
in a patronizing-sounding tone.
Unless you have renounced your Nepali citizenship, he's your Water Resources
Minister too, and that may sound unfair to you, but, hey, who says life is fair?
Face the reality as it is, and stop wishing that the reality were something else.
Dipak Dai went to Berkeley on a Fullbright, which is usually only for a two-year
Master's degree. I wouldn't be surprised if he was asked to stay on to do a PhD there.
Soon after finishing his Master's there, he spent time at an institute in Hawaii, where
he finished his monograph "Water in Nepal", before coming back to Nepal for good.
[A decade later, Bikash Pandey, went to the same program at Berkeley, and he too seems to have decided that he did not need a PhD to do the kind of work he wanted
to do in Nepal.]
Now, you are welcome to raise doubts -- oh so subtly -- about whether Dipak Dai's left Berkele AFTER his prelims or before his prelims. Doubts are good in a democracy.
[FYI, unless one wants to be a college/university professor or a researcher at a top-flight think-tank, most smart, capable and ambitious Nepalis and non-Nepalis find it a sheer waste of time to spend years doing a PhD at American universities, and, it is in
this context, I understood what Paschim meant when he once said he might go for
"a quickie PhD" from some British university when he is still young.]
Living in Houston, Texas, you seem to UNDERESTIMATE the level of sheer disillusionment that the word "democracy" conjures up these days in most Nepalis
mind in Kathmandu and the countryside, Nepal -- where I reside and
interact with others.
Sure, the people may not like the King's move in ABSOLUTE terms, but they seem to
give him the benefit of doubt in RELATIVE terms.
All that people want is someone to restore order and let them live and work in
peace -- something that your so-called followers of BP rarely ever gave to Nepali
janata in the last 12 years, and rarely ever helped creat INDEPENDENT institutions
that would check against their own excesses BEFORE it was too late.
The so-called followers of BP, by their constant jhagada one after another, practically made it easier for the King -- ever the shrewd one waiting for an opportunity -- to
step in.
If Dipak Gywali does sometihing good to benefit the country, which I hope he will, then he deserves a chance to be what he is today.
If he fails, then not yours but his reputation will be sullied. Risks are much higher for someone like Dipak Gyawali than to you or to me.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 08:28 PM
mahakali sandhi is the ebst treaty we ever signed with India, sparsha. read the terms of that sandhi. UML started the process on mahakali and Prakash Chandra Lohani signed that treaty with Pranav Mukharjee during Gujral's time. That treaty says, "equal benifits" to Nepal and India.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 08:32 PM
Sparsha wrote: I don't care whether uml or kangressi or any other parties for that matter are represented in the government. I don't care who forms the govt. king, uml or kangress or some other parties.What I care, though, is if the cabinet is sincere in doing its business. can it deliver what people desire? can it think beyond party line? can it devote itself for the betterment of the nation and the people? if the answer is yes, then that's good enough for me. I care less who is the string master as long as the people and the nation benefit. let's be aware of rights first then no one can fool us. we will draft the constitution the way we want when we know what we want.
*** Gajjab bhanyo! 100% agree with you. beer is on me when you are in Kathmandu next.
|
| Garibjanata |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 08:52 PM
I have the gut feeling that Mr. Gyawali could not pass the Ph.D prelimns at U.C. Berkeley.Ani KTM ha gaera,dhak jamaunu bhayo waha le- ki ma ta Ph.D to offer lai lat marera aeko. It might also be possible that no Prof. was ready to fund him or he could not get any assistantship.
DEEPAK GYAwaLi= LOSER at UC Berekely= WINNER in KTM.
Another interesting thing -Someone confided in me a couple of years back that Deepak Gyawali,Kunda Dixit are RAW ko agents.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 09:06 PM
**Chali rahechha, chali rahechha**
Majboor Nepal rashtra ko byegra raajdhani ma!!
"Bahudaliya byebastha ma Nirdaliya Nautanki" -- Part Two -- Dhamaka ka saath chali rahechha -- Kathmandu City ma -- In its grand sixth week -- Nepal fool!!
Ukta ekal nautanki ka mukhya paatra: Shah bamsha ka barhaun kheladi!
-----
More thoughts tonight when I get some time to breathe.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 09:07 PM
Biswoji,
“Sparshaji,
Let's say this much, we are taking a poor man for a ride if we say he is a fella who don't give a damn about democracy. “
I am not taking anyone for ride. When we are talking about poor people a lot of poor people I have met and seen in nepal came before my eyes. I had never heard anyone being concerned where the sovereignty resides? Who is the real “maibap” of sovereignty? I don’t think this is what they question day in and day out. About democracy, yes they don’t give a damn what is democracy. If a system givs them peace and prosperity that is the best system for them. Call it democracy or whatever cracy. Most of the people in nepal are in need of immediate support to move on with their life. I once went to sipaghat in sindhupalchok. That place is barely couple of hours from the capital. That day, it was a “dudh-pitho” day there. It was like a mela. Nutrition Food Project or something similar to this was distributing donated powder milk and flour to local qualified people. I met a guy who had walked six hours with his daughter-in-law to collect that dudh-pitho but unfortunately they lost their card. They were denied the products. That guy was pleading with me to get something for them, for an infant his daughter-in-law left back home six hours away. I was not working for the project but still I requested to the project people. I felt really bad. Now, biswoji, you ask them what is democracy? How much do you think they will care about democratic principle or sovereignty? There are millions of people like them in our beloved land.
What is democracy?
It is a principle for social justice, where those who care about popular welfare win the right to govern.
Biswoji, You must be aware that the official name of North Korea is “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea”. Is North Korea a democratic country to you? To me, it is not. Because my definition of democracy excludes north korea. But their definition of democracy must be such that they call their nation a democratic and republic as well. What is republic? The priciples are just that-priniciples. You define them the way you want. A reknown poet says, “ugly is also beauty”. Big deal. A lot of people start quoting that. If a “chan chune” man says that, in no time people will call him “baulaha”. What is social justice? This is a broad subject. However, I believe democracy should be a system that cares for the welfare of the nation and nationals.
“It is a principle for social justice, where those who care about popular welfare win the right to govern.”
Biswoji, looking at the past MPs and governments. Do you really think we had democracy?
“What is sovereignty?
If poor people don't care about sovereignty, how come there are so many poor Kurds, Tibetans, Sikkimese talk about sovereignty? Why poor Bhutanese care about that. “
You have drawn a different scenario here, Biswoji. What poor kurds, tibetan, sikkimese are talking about is a different kind of sovereignty. Their nation is gone Biswoji. We are talking about a diffrerent type of sovereignty here. We are talking about who has the sovereignty IN nepal? Biswoji, you tell me who has the sovereignty now in nepal? Who was having 2 months ago?
“Yes, in a normal day when they have sovereignty in their grip, they appear like they don't care. But as the consequence of a dictator's assuming sovereignty affects them (which is gonna happen sooner or later) they start caring about that. “
Nobody grips sovereignty. It’s a sense of pride. It’s like an honorary post. When they start caring about it, that sovereignty will be theirs. It always belonged to people and always will. When people demand noone can hide their sovereignty from them. But right now, they have other thing to safe guard. Their life.
“Look, we don't care about AIDS now. The day its pernicious effect affects someone among us, we start caring. Loss of sovereignty is like that. “
Right, Biswoji. We don’t care about AIDS now. But you can’t compare AIDS with sovereignty.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 09:30 PM
I am sleepy but just one question: What exactly Biswo is pissed off at? Biswo, my friend can you tell me once again?
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 09:46 PM
NK, so you are Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning? before it got interesting. Me too. I could not catch what is happening here. What is the core part of this discussion thread.
Whatever looking at Depak Gyawali's name, I think its good that he was given chances, when all others before him failed. Gyawali knew Nepali water and vice versa is also true.
My experience with DG (one one or two emails I received so far: about 8 years back in some other issue, I liked his replies, so kind). I never met him personally, never saw him in real world, but, he can sell his ideas. He won't be another GRJ, that much I am confident.
Malai pani hatar bhayo hou, dhunga-mato ko mantri huna. Nepe ji, help me! You said I know Dhunga-mato, (and vice versa too?). I think SM Sainju jyu can help me, creating a Dhunga-Mato mantri ya Hahoo!Mantri Positions in his Sajhapur Cabinet.
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| Dilasha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 11:13 PM
Sparsha ji, I feel exactly the same way you do regarding this whole issue that you guys been discussing on this thread. This is the first time I've read your postings and I'm glad I did so. Thanks everyone for this great discussion.
|
| Dilasha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 11:46 PM
Just a quick question: I just checked the Mantri mandal on nepalnews....how come not a singe woman is in the main cabinet? Only one woman appointed that also in the assistant category? what sort of a diversity is this?? I'm sure there are way too many capable women out there. what a depressing picture!
|
| Dilasha |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 11:48 PM
singe=single
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Nov-02 11:57 PM
Dear Ashu,
>In Nepal, I call older Nepalis "dais" and younger Nepalis "bhais".
>Gyawali, 52, is much older than I am, hence I called him Dipak Dai.
>You are welcome to TWIST this fact to suit your need to call Diak
>Gyawali my dai in a patronizing-sounding tone.
Ok, I didn't know this fact before. May be because you never said me "Bhai":-)
>Unless you have renounced your Nepali citizenship,
I haven't.
>Dipak Dai went to Berkeley on a Fullbright, which is usually only
> for a two-year Master's degree. I wouldn't be surprised if he
>was asked to stay on to do a PhD there.
You know, Ashu, I am a PhD student, so I don't want to talk about PhD and its 'greatness'. Each degree has its own purpose. Some find SLC enough,some find ISc enough, some go further. But I WOULD like to know if he was offerred PhD and he rejected that (since now he is a public figure, and he himself says that, acc to your first posting).I believe that PhD in Berkeley is absolutely competitive, its graduates often have a great future in acadamia or industry alike, and they just don't offer PhD like that because of lack of funding and high number of applicants. I know this thing, like I said, I have some contacts with people there. I just don't want to buy the argument that someone "refused to complete a PhD" there. To whom he refused, that info would be even better.It is not that I don't believe he is smart, I believe, but those who are refused in Berkeley are also very smart people. (some even go back to teach there.)
>Soon after finishing his Master's there, he spent time at an
>institute in Hawaii, where he finished his monograph "Water
>in Nepal", before coming back to Nepal for good.
This fact just surprises me, Dear Ashu. Because while the whole world dies to study in Berkeley, here our nice and smart and brilliant fella refuses to stay in Berkeley as a PhD student, and goes to comparatively obscure and noncompetitive place, and finishes his monograph. I am not saying anything, all I am saying is this fact just surprises me, makes me more curious about him.
>Now, you are welcome to raise doubts -- oh so subtly --
>about whether Dipak Dai's left Berkele AFTER his prelims or
> before his prelims. Doubts are good in a democracy.
Not so subtly. I raise this doubt openly if he claims he 'refused to complete' PhD. What kind of situation enables a person to claim he 'refused to complete PhD'? For me, that is also another subject to find out from 'our' great minister.
>[FYI, unless one wants to be a college/university professor or a
>researcher at a top-flight think-tank, most smart, capable and
>ambitious Nepalis and non-Nepalis find it a sheer waste of time to
>spend years doing a PhD at American universities, and, it is in
>this context, I understood what Paschim meant when he once
>said he might go for "a quickie PhD" from some British university
>when he is still young.]
Ashu, like I said already, I am a PhD student, so don't want to argue on this. There are a lot of Nepali students doing PhD in USA. They are also as determined as those who don't want to do PhD. No one spends years without any purpose. Doing PhD has its own purposes. Not doing PhD has its own purposes.
As for 'sheer' waste of time thing, let me ask one very interesting question: pick a guy from Mr Gyawali's batch in Berkeley. And compare what he did in his career after doing PhD (take as graduates of 1989 since he did his MS in 86). For your info, this is the list of placement of 89 batch, copied from Berkeley agriculture and resource economics website:
Pier Ardeni
Universita Degli Studi Di Bologna, Italy
Ziv Bar-Shira
Department of Economics & Management
Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Marcel Fafchamps
Department of Economics, Manor Road, Oxford OX1 3UQ (United Kingdom).
George Frisvold
Agricultural and Resource Economics
University of Arizona
Elise Golan (Hardy)
USDA, Economic Research Service
John Praveen
Montclair State College, Department of Economics
David Sunding
University of California at Berkeley, Dept. of Agricultural & Resource Economics
Professors in Berkeley, Oxford,etc. etc., not a small feat, I believe. It is not a waste of time. It is absolutely worth it, at least in my view. I don't know how well respected Gyawaliji is among his peers world wide, but I am sure not as well respected as these people acadamically. It is easy to brag in KTM,( ma laai PhD diyathyo, garina,) after all people quickly believe others there.
Now, it would be even better if he tells us which professor 'offered' this PhD thing. Like I said, I absolutely believe I can check that fact if the professor is someone my coauthor will be talking to in Israel next month. I am sure you will also love to know the fact if possible, don't you? (Since I assume he didn't apply to the department formally for PhD, so department never offered him that PhD thing.) I am not doubting his intelligence, I hope he was offered, I hope he was brilliant and wellknown in his department in Berkeley, but I definitely will like to check this thing. Let's see how 'swaccha' (definitely lying about degree doesn't make some people swachchha) our king's men are.
----
To IF,
Yes, king Birendra changed governments fast during the great 'jana aandolan'. Check your facts. Marichman was prime minister, but his ministers were changed as late as Chaitra 20/21. Then he was thrown away.This fella Chanda came. The king was nervous then, the king was jumpy then, just like now.
----
Sparshaji,
Lekhda Lekhdai haatai dukhyo. Let's agree to disagree. It is already almost midnight haamro yetaa tira. Tesmaathi Dilasha pani jumping to support you:-)
---
NK,
Hmm.. What am I pissed at?
I am pissed at the fact that while someone is stealing my property, a friend is congratulating the thief of being rich. To me, it just sounds eggregious.
----
Guruji,
I hope Gyawali is good, nice , kind fellow like you said. Doesn't matter.He preached the politics of inclusion some weeks ago. He is in the council of ministers that excludes the major faction of our population. I am a democrat. I don't congratulate someone who is there because of nigaaha.
|
| wy |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 01:57 AM
"Dipak Gyawali's career (trained in the former USSR as an engineer and at Cal Berkeley
as an economist and, by his own account, refused to complete a PhD)....."
Myaybe the word "refused" could have been replaced with the word "did not," to avoid all these debates.
In any case,
There are a lot of reasons one does not opt to go for a PhD.
People lose motivation and drop out.
People flunk prelims and terminate their mission and move on with an MS, that too if they pass at that level.
People find a nice job and put Ph.D. on hold.
People get thrown out for some academic dishonesty.
People get into financial bind and terminate their pursuit.
People are not cut out for it.
People's job goal does not require it.
As for refusal:
People refuse to pay back the money. People refuse to be drafted. People refuse to pay taxes in protest. People refuse to accept an award.
So, DG's account that he refused to complete a Ph.D. does not sound too convincing.
Is Ph.D. waste of time? NOOOOO!!!!
Actually, responding to this question is a waste of time. So I am not going to.
But, the bottom line to all those hardworking Nepali students: Keep at it. It is a volunteering mission so you cannot refuse to complete it unless your parents are forcing you to get a PhD against your will.
And, don't let anyone make you believe that it is a waste of time. Trust me, I know a thing or two about PhD. This is not the first time I have seen this types of arguments about the Ph.D. degree around these threads.
Peace!!!
|
| protean |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 02:17 AM
Ashu wrote:
[A decade later, Bikash Pandey, went to the same program at Berkeley, and he too seems to have decided that he did not need a PhD to do the kind of work he wanted
to do in Nepal.]
__________________
This might have been a decision based not because of the opportunity costs entailed, but rather on the similar reasons as to why DG didn't/couldn't pursue the PHD at Berkeley.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 02:24 AM
Guruji,
I hope Gyawali is good, nice , kind fellow like you said. Doesn't matter.He preached the politics of inclusion some weeks ago. He is in the council of ministers that excludes the major faction of our population. I am a democrat. I don't congratulate someone who is there because of nigaaha.
------
Biswo ji,
I am happy that you are getting stronger, confident and bold. No flattering. I remember a Japanese lady (TV celebrity) once distributed a name card that she visited university of colorado as "an invited guest". That pulled a long battle with her very close friend who is also a TV celebrity, finally, she was her biggest enemy, and now the first women is in jail (one of the reason: the lying of being "univ. guest" in her election campaign).
Lets not get confused here by some of us who are portraying Ph.D. is like jackle in the "Grapes are sour" story. It is worth earning Ph.D. "title" even if its for your own personal satisfaction. Getting admission has no guarantee of reaching worth direction and therefore, there are many who abandon it at the middle. I don't know why peoples portray themselves that "Maile ta Masters Degree Prapta garna sakina", to give an illusion that "he had Bachelor degree". Here we should be very clear that if someone says "I am not millionnaire, though", does not guarantee that "he has even 1 dollar in his pocket". I mean there are many peoples who want to pose as if a millionnaire in limiting value concepts (just remember the first course in calculus: limiting value deltaX tends to zero... and asympotic stuffs).......... Just getting an offer for Chair and Desk is not equal to getting a certificate, I don't know why peoples portray themselves as if great for getting such offer. One guy in Japan told me over telephone, "Dai malai ta tyo falano professor le usko e.g. Kyoto Univ. ma aija ki aija bhanera bhaneko chha ma k garou." . I told him straight "GO" answer. After sometime, when met the Professor in some conference and when he knew that I am also from Nepal, he explained that (I did not ask the details) "tyo falani Nepali student le malai, mero lab rakhi deu na bhanera khub request gareko thiyo. Do you know him?". My reply to the professor "Well, I don't him in detail, but, I just know him as a Nepali in Japan". Such "I am not millionnaire though. Well, I could not by BMW car, you know. I did not go for Ph.D. you know. I don't like Ph.D. study, you know. " type of peoples can be met quite frequently. I just smile and make him happy "you are so great", and I don't disappoint him "So, you have Masters degree right? where (which univ) did you get your Masters degree?", neither I ask like "So, you purchased Toyota Royal Saloon, haina ta, because you did not like BMD?". Let him/her enjoy. As we know in maths, when we talk nearest round number(e.g. nearest thousand) : 501 to 1499 all can be assumed as if 1000. Public in Nepal also like approximate things like that. For them 501 is also 1000. .............. K Garne, this is real world.
---
"PhD is not offered usually, I guess its earned and conferred upon you based on your independent and original contribution to the human society. It is not like getting certificate after SLC or ISc or BA or MA exams, because you can get these certificates without posing any originality, without being uniqe, but, just being a commoner. Only Ph.D. title is conferred that tells the world that "This fellow did something extraordinary original that no one could do in the past. S/he owns that special knowledge, and thats why we call him Ph.D. Dr. Saheb" ". Well, sometime great peoples are given Honrary PhD. e.g. Late King Birendra had many Honrary Ph.D. degrees.
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 04:26 AM
Biswo Bhai,
Look, you are welcome to believe what you want to believe, and that's fine.
I have quite a few former classmates who did -- according to what they sent to
our class reports -- drop out of Berkeley ko and Harvard ko and Princeton ko PhD
programs for a variety of reasons, some of which refer to what WY is saying here.
I, for one, am NOT going to judge those friends negatively or even raise doubts about their abilities either privately or publicly just because they did not go on to earn doctoral degrees, and am happy to accept their decisions as something that they thought were in their own interests, and let that be that.
I, for one, do NOT like to second-guess why people do not pursue PhDs, and accept their own reasons as something they are happy with.
NOT everyone, after all, needs a PhD from America to do the kind of thing one wants
to do in life in Nepal or elsewhere.
Sure, a PhD can always be an asset in some contexts.
But, on a larger note, having met and worked with too many Nepali PhDs in Nepal who are underpaid, overvalued, brimming with inane self-importance and pathetically out-of-touch with realities, I have decided for myself and myself alone that unless I really, really and really want to go into academia and become a professor someday -- a desire I want to feel from the bottom of my heart and not based on some external expectations of any kind -- I, for one, am not going to spend my time pursuing a PhD anywhere. That's for me and me alone.
[My parents and relatives are already impressed with me as I am now :-)]
I can imagine Deepak Gyawali and Bikash Pandey -- both of whom had pretty good careers going for them in Nepal before they went off to Berkeley to pursue a Master's degree each on Fullbright scholarships -- also making similar decisions for themselves,
to suit their own long-term interests too and that's fine by me. I need NOT
second-guess their motives, UNLIKE what you seem to be doing here.
OK, Dipak Gyawali said he "refused" to do a PhD at Berkeley.
Big deal.
What's there to be worked up about?
**********
That said, unlike you and many others here, look, I took risks, and went out and informally worked with some lawyer friends in Kathmandu to file a petition against the King's move in the Nepali Supreme Court (see how that thread "Don't question the King" got started here on sajha). The SC threw out that and other similar petitions.
Given that, what do you expect me to do in Kathmandu?
Pack my bags and leave the country in disgust?
Can you say the same thing about yourself and others who post here? No.
You can prattle and prate about how we need democracy and all that, but unless
you are willing to put yourself on harm's way, you have no right to judge others
for being this and that . . . for not suiting your agenda and your thoughts.
Sure, the King's move was unconstitutional, and I did what I, a private citizen could do.
But I am not someone who likes to bang his head against the wall, when I know that the wall would not budge and the only result would be that my head would start bleeding.
Look at the way the King -- ever the shrewd one -- going about what he's doing. He seems to have GENUINELY tried to get the political parties on board. Those parties, with their massive ego, zero strategic thought and stupid "either all or nothing" sort of
reality-denying mentality decided NOT to have anything to do with the King.
The result?
They are out of the loop altogether, with DWINDLING support base.
And the King went ahead and formed his own cabinet.
Now, look, we can
EITHER
continue to focus on SOME of the better things that are likely to come through all this and then look for ways to PUSH for those better changes through people like Deepak Gyawali (knowing fully well that if he fails then he does more damage to himself)
OR
continue to bicker about the legitimacy of the King's move while the whole nation
seems to have moved FORWARD to desperately look for ways to make peace and
push for development in RELATIVE terms.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| KaLaNkIsThAn |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 06:18 AM
Ohooo Dipak dai JYU,
Congratulation hai!! congratulation!! Malai tha thiyo hazur ekdin mantri bani bakshincha bhanera. Hune biruwa ko chillo paat ke hazur. Ani bhaujyu s anchai hoi bakshincha? Hazur mero buba ni sanchai hoibakshincha. Hazur ta buba ko "langautia yaar" hoi bakshido rahecha. Bharkhar mero buba le sunai bekshera po ma Jhasanga bhaa ko ta. Pasupati naath le hazur ra hazur ko kurshi ko rakshya garun hai!! hazur maile reciever rakhne aagya paam hazur. Hus ta hazur, ma phone gardai garaula hazur. Namaskar.
[bau ko saathi po parecha, yesso source force lagauna lai thikka paarera raakhna paryo ni hoina??? es pali chai amrica jaana paincha jasto cha... "ma aaudai chu, monica??, i mean pamela"]
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 07:05 AM
I thought the PhD debate originated here differently. Ashu asserted publicly that his Deepak dai "refused" to go on to do a PhD at Berkeley. A refusal implies that an offer was made. I'm not interested in second-guessing his private intentions, but I am now interested in finding the truth behind a publicly asserted statement.
Did he refuse an offer that was made? Did he refuse an offer that was never made? Did he actually ever claim that he refused such an offer whether made or not made? Did Deepak dai's Ashu bhai inaccurately assert on Sajha something that DG might or might not have made? Or is Ashu rightly and accurately reporting publicly a claim that Deepak dai made to him in private? Or has Deepak dai's claim about his "refusal" been public knowledge all along?
What is the whole truth here?
The big deal is the following: once a claim has entered a public domain, the accuracy and truthfulness of that claim is important to verify if people seek to. Especially in this case because it is now tied to the integrity and credibility of a public figure called Deepak Gyawali -- an unelected royal nominee to the cabinet -- who since yesterday has also become every Nepali's publicly funded and publicly accountable Jalshrwot Mantri.
-----
On the king's latest action, I salute the two political parties -- Nepali Congress and UML -- however discredited and disgraced their performance of the past 12 years have been, for *refusing* to send their nominees to this unconstitutional cabinet. They have done the right thing by not legitimizing, through participation, this illegitimate creation of Narayanhiti.
It is sad (perversely delightful to many) to watch the king scrapping together a cabinet by collecting offshoots or rejects of the two political parties, and some independent folks. It is more sad to watch a country heading to put up a pretence of "operation" under a multi-party democracy by alienating and marginalizing the country's largest political parties. The king did NOT make a genuine attempt at inclusiveness. A genuine attempt on this king's part would have meant at least redressing mildly his constitutional blunder of October 4. A *minimum* gesture could have been a royal proclamation that categorically states that the executive authority resides in the PM. Even this latest expansion was not based on the PM's "recommendation", but mere "consultation" -- a huge difference. There was no question whatsoever of the parties joining this cabinet -- literally a bastard progeny -- without the king making a single amend. I'm glad for the uncompromising position the parties took. And I think, the king ignores those main parties (however unpopular right now) at his own peril in the long run.
Let me also commend a fellow Nepali citizen, Biswo, wherever he is based, for his strong opinions on this subject. For me, much of this debate is "déjà vu all over again", so I do not want to add anything, but let me end by saying, yes, Biswo, I think you are right to say that you are standing on the right side of history. And I salute you.
|
| Deepak Bista |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 08:03 AM
All sahaites,
What is a big deal whether or not Deepak Gyawali offered a place for a Phd in Berkerly? What really matters whether or not he performs/discharge his duty as a minister. Phd or no Phd, if he is an intelligent person and has commitment for what he is doing he will perform well. Let us not waste our time to figure out whether or not he was offered a place for phd or whether or not he refused undertaking his phd programme. Ashuji should not have brought this in the first place.
This is my two cents worth
Deepak
|
| kewl |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 08:18 AM
Dear all,
What a waste of time..After reading so many comments from MR Biswo ji, I still dont understand why hes so upset about DG. There are people in ktm who are more worthy and useful than these PHD holders. DG is well known name in nepal..not because he did not accept phd offer..but hes been raising his voice for some cause...(good or bad...). As a Nepali thats important to me...I respect them who atleast stays in Nepal, raises his/her voice for something....To be frank I never knew about DG PHD issue before...and Biswo ji..for your kind information...PHD degree from some respected institution alone wont make people great...I can give you examples who are great without degrees .....Believe me..after reading few comments here I feel more scared to do PHD...cuz it takes ur ego high up in air ....and you are far from reality....
...
and let me say one thing..I guess everyone here are my "dai" and "didi" based on my age...and i think its ur generation who failed miserably...dont balme GP and Makune alone...U were the ones who supported them in eletion...elected them ...Wats the use of PHD degree when u go around makune and gp for their blessing...just to be more "democratic"...and ya..if u sit with GP u r democratic..and if u sit with king its ...wat...sugggest me name pls..guruji haru...
|
| Jhilke Kyailan |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:15 AM
Paschim, u took the words right out of my mouth when you said
"**Chali rahechha, chali rahechha**
Majboor Nepal rashtra ko byegra raajdhani ma!!
"Bahudaliya byebastha ma Nirdaliya Nautanki" -- Part Two -- Dhamaka ka saath chali rahechha -- Kathmandu City ma -- In its grand sixth week -- Nepal fool!!
Ukta ekal nautanki ka mukhya paatra: Shah bamsha ka barhaun kheladi! "
reading about what is happening in nepal is leaving me with a sense of helplessness as I have never felt before......the hole is being dug and people are queing to jump right in....the sad part is it could be their best alternative....others have begun to position themselves for the peace of the pie......quite interesting to observe how the dynamics of power politics works...who are the leaders and who are the followers in disguise (drag)?????......
What do I do (personally) do I stay? do I go? Do I shout or do I keep quiet ?..... What if anything can I do? Questions question..too many questions for which I have no answers??????? Only now am I begining to fully appreciate the power of shakspeare's words especially,
" To be or not to be....." Must read more.........
People are right....Ram Bahadur Ghale in Syangjha doesn't care, gopal parasd Pudasaini from bardia doesn't care, but, people who can read write, think and analyse should....why, because it is the right thing to do, it is their duty to care for people who at this time have not the compensation to do so.......they may not care now but they will one day.....history has proven it to be so...everybody will care one day......
Things are moving with such velocity that it almost seems orchastrated....lots of thought has gone into it....and the hapless "democrats" are falling into preset traps right left and center.....
Question remains ( to borrow a pharse from a song) "should I stay or should I go....if I stay there will be trouble..if I go it could be double...)...patience...patience and partnership...thats what is needed..said the Ram to shyam.....
However, must give credit where credit is due.....hats to G, he knows the game and how to play it.....
antim ma.......Ashu ji, have followed and greatly enjoyed your contribution over the many months since I found Sajha...but tell me why.....OH WHY...has your postings in this thread left me feeling very very dissapointed.....
|
| rbaral |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:32 AM
There have been stances when I have declined a PhD offer. But I would not state that as a "Refusal to a PhD Offer". Because I was never conferred to, I had no choice of refusing it. However, I was accepted on a program, at more than one occasion, upon successful completion of which would lead me to become a PhD. Job offers have always outweighted, in my case, an acceptance to a PhD program.
Ashuji:
Biswo ji, I am with you. Your curiosity is genuine.
Namaste, Rishi
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:46 AM
Paschim wrote: On the king's latest action, I salute the two political parties -- Nepali Congress and UML -- however discredited and disgraced their performance of the past 12 years have been, for *refusing* to send their nominees to this unconstitutional cabinet. They have done the right thing by not legitimizing, through participation, this illegitimate creation of Narayanhiti.
----
O sauy the opposite. The congress and UML have lost whatever little respect I had for them. Politicans are supposed to take responsibilities, not run away from the responsibilities. The congress and UML have lost their credibility by not:
1) accepting the reality
2) by proving that they are bunch of whiners who wants chi chi pani papa pani, and when they get both, they say, we want nana pani..
yo pani bhayena , tyo pani bhayena... i think they should pack their bags and go to Korea and or Kashi.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:51 AM
read the first line as:
I say the opposite
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:57 AM
also, why the congress and uml refused to join the governmnet?
answer: because they wanted to form their own governmnet. They didn't want to be a part of the "coalition". If the king had appointed Madhav Nepal, he would be praising the King. The same applies to Girija too. The only reason they are complaining is that , that they didn't get to form the governmnet. plain and simple.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 11:02 AM
Paschim wrote:
"yes, Biswo, I think you are right to say that you are standing on the right side of history. And I salute you. "
I also have high regard for Biswoji. BUT, time will tell who is standing on the right side of history. Time, of course, unlike in Mahabharat, is mute. However, historians will speak. History may be a book on past but heavily relies on who accounts the "past". In Ranakal, the history probably glorified Rana purbaj. In panchayat era, history glorified mahendra and panchayat and denounced multi-party idea and supporters. If history is written today, it probably will denounce maobadis. If maobadis come to power tomorrow, history probably will glorify prachanda and the company and denounce multi-party system. So, I, at least, can't assume how history will evaluate us. HISTORY IS A BOOK OF WINNERS.
Jhilkey kainla,
"People are right....Ram Bahadur Ghale in Syangjha doesn't care, gopal parasd Pudasaini from bardia doesn't care, but, people who can read write, think and analyse should....why, because it is the right thing to do, it is their duty to care for people who at this time have not the compensation to do so.......they may not care now but they will one day.....history has proven it to be so...everybody will care one day...... "
Yeah, people will probably care ....ONE DAY (I don't know about everybody though, even here in the US not everybody cares). I assume you are talking about democracy and sovereignty.
What is right thing to do for those who "can read, write, and analyse" ,Jhilkey Kainla?
"You say it's their duty to care for people who at this time have not the compensation to do so..?"
what are you talking about?
When people are powerful and free enough to care, they will find what they are looking for. It's not like inventing a medicine for an unknown cancer. But today is not that one day...we have a long way to go.
Also, you may have read today that Badri Mandal is talking about Const. Assembly. Why is a "king's man" talking in that tone and content? I still think, the real threat king sees is not from UML or Kangress but from Maobadis.
King probably is trying his best to have a working relationship with prachanda&co. He is gambling.
I don't think UML or Kangress or RPP are serious enough for peace and prosperity of nepal and nepali people. they usually talk on party line. Their behaviour in the past 12 years have shown that they are opportunists. I am talking about the leadership not every cadre. It still is not too late for them to prove who they work for. nation and the people or self interest?
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 11:10 AM
Hi all,
I really don't care whether Dipak Gyawali has a PhD or not, nor do I particularly care whether his professors at Cal Berkeley asked him to stay on to do a PhD, and that
he, by his own account, decided otherwise and/or refused.
Even if, for the sake of argument, he was indeed bragging the whole thing to me
and others, I really don't care, as long as he makes sense when it comes to talking rigorously/intelligently about Nepal's policies related to hydropower and water
resources -- his area of supposed expertise.
I, for one, will be judging Dipak Gyawali on how much he can accomplish as the
Water Resources Minister, and that's really that.
[I am well aware that there are people in this forum who dislike Gyawali for their
own reasons, and I am NOT going to buy their biases and am willing to give Gywali
a benefit of doubt and see what and how he delivers for the progress of Nepal's
water resources.]
Like I said, others have been prattling and prating on sajha about democracy in
Nepal -- from afar, WITHOUT putting themselves in harm's way, without risking
anything and simply back-slapping one another AS THOUGH such back-slapping
would be an argument-for-democracy in and of itself.
I call these people "irrelevant democrats", the kind who enjoy brilliantly discussing
the engineering behind ship-building on the deck of the Titanic, insisting that the
ship should not be sinking . . .
Unlike what these irrelevant democrats think, Nepali janata are NOT so stupid as NOT to realize what the King did might not have been constitutional, but in a subdued mood they seem to have thought that King's move was the MOST agreeable among the options available to them.
If the King too does not deliver on the expectations created by his taking over the whole political apparatus, then, the janata will not hesitate to go against him, one way or the other, sooner or later. I am sure the King too knows this very well, and is playing his card shrewdly. So far, he has benefitted from the disarray that surrounds the major political parties.
More than on the political parties, which raised the art of exclusion to sch a level that they remained aloof to janata's crying needs, let us have MORE faith in the collective wisdom of the Nepali janata . . . yes, the very janata who got screwed by the so-called democratic parties in the last 12 years, and let us stop implying that the janata are too dumb to understand what's going on.
It's the political parties that are dumb and keep on underestimating the janata and use democracy as a clutch when they suddenly find how dangerously irrelevant they are fast becoming with eroding popular support.
By saying all this, I am not ABSOLUTELY supporting the King's move, but only that
when alternatives appear to be khattam, even the King's move looks dangerously appealing.
facing reality as it is, what do sajha's self-declared, and back-slapping democrats have to say about this?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 11:12 AM
When people are powerful and free enough to care, they will find what they are looking for. It's not like inventing a medicine for an unknown cancer. But today is not that one day...we have a long way to go.
--
Yes, we have a long way to go. The political parties need to compromise and accept the fact that their irresponsible behavior of the alst 13 years forced the king to make that move.
yo pani hundaina, tyo pani hundaina.. yo pani thik chaina, tyo pani thik chaina..i mean, what the fu*k they want?
UNL wants a govt formed under artilce 128 but without using that article (k bhanna khojya madhav nepal lai gayera sodhnus)
Girija wants to become PM
Sher Bahadur says, the king should reinstate him as PM to correct the constitutional error..
so, what could the king do?
seriously, these leaders are like school kids who don't hand in their homeworks and always come up with excuses suchas " aaja ma birami bhaye.. tauko saro, pet gilo bhayo.., i did my homework but gharma chutyo.. hijo rati batti gayo.. my brother pissed on my notebook.. blah blah blah...) so, what do the teacher do then>? take disciplinary action against those kids, so taht they learn that they need to turn in their howmeorks on time.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 11:20 AM
Wait a minute, Ashu. ( I prefer Biswo only. Don't say me bhai, please:-) I was just trying to make a point.)
If you think that just because you signed a petition against King's move make your contribution to restoration of democracy more significant, then ,look, I have nothing to say about such claim.
I would not divulge, but I am also a participant of such 'international' movement. I have also signed a web based petition.It is not that I am just sitting in front of computer and expressing my sorrow over King's appropriation of our constitutional right.
--
For that PhD thing again and again, it is easy to claim in Nepal (to some of docile 'bhai','baini', 'sasurali') which university offered one what degree, and who refused what. Until yesterday, you wrote lots of times about such claim made by Bikas Pande etc, and I didn't bother to raise a doubt.
Because I didn't care. Bikas to me was nobody. Not my friend. I read his articles couple of times during Arun thing, he impressed me, he looked brilliant engineer. All was fine.
But now, you come here, celebrate your 'Dipak dai''s success (I remembered such kind of congratulatory messages in Gorkhapatra,really) and claimed your Dipak Dai refused to complete PhD. It made me pause.
Now what's a big deal?
It is a big deal, because I think it is probably a lie. Lie is big deal, evenmore because 'Dipak dai''s boss claimed he would be making 'swachcha' government. 'Dipak dai' 's boss is big deal now.We know how 'swachhchha' other fellas he chose are. Now let's know how veritable 'Dipak dai' is.
---
Am I underestimating the sheer disillusionment towards democracy in Nepal?
Well, prove me this thing by election. Chunaab uthdaa manchhe jamma garna silaa khojnu parne le janataa ko guff dinu bekaar chha. We have seen royal nominees competing in the elections in the past. Some king supporting intellectuals like Bhesh Bdr Thapa tried to compete elections,reportedly spent millions, couldn't win the election, proving that people are more unsure about them. Marich Man competed, and lost. To say that King has popular mandate is lie. Hold an election and we will see who people like. You can not just sit inside your house, and write , people are disillusioned with this thing/that thing, this thing need to be proved.
--
Xyji and proteanji,
I share your opinions.
---
Guruji,
I agree with you.
I mean if we celebrate someone who 'refused to do PhD', then why not we celebrate some Milan Chakre like dada who 'refuse' to do SLC from Tandi highschool?
We all know what this is. Hudai nabhayeko, paaudai napaayeko PhD refuse ta sabaile garchhan ni.
--------
Paschim,
Thanks for your commendation.
There is no doubt in my mind what this is: this is what our scriptures say 'binaashkaale biparita budhdhi'.
I also agree with you about that PhD claim. napaayeko PhD sabaile refuse garchhan , I know.
---
kewlji,
If you don't understand what I am upset about, while a lot of others seemed to not only understand but actively participate in the debate, then it is certainly not my fault. You are welcome to join the debate, or abandon it at any time you like.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 11:23 AM
so taht they learn that they need to turn in their howmeorks on time.
read this as : so that they learn to hand in their homeworks on time.
Ashu wrote: It's the political parties that are dumb and keep on underestimating the janata and use democracy as a clutch when they suddenly find how dangerously irrelevant they are fast becoming with eroding popular support.
---
exactly.. and what do you do when you realzie this? you just issue statements that have words/phrases that nobody understands..bring in karyakratsas.. plan for a revolution and grand design and what not.. make your karyakartas applaud on your k k k k bhasan. and think, jantas are stupid..
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 12:35 PM
Biswo wrote:. Marich Man competed, and lost. . You can not just sit inside your house, and write , people are disillusioned with this thing/that thing, this thing need to be proved
--
Marich man got more votes than Padma Ratna.
"To say that King has popular mandate is lie. Hold an election and we will see who people like"
How do you know its a lie? hold an election and all those 205 cartoons will be back.. not because people like them, but they know how to win 'elections'
"You can not just sit inside your house, and write , people are disillusioned with this thing/that thing, this thing need to be proved"
Biswo, now this is a strong statement. Even if ashu is sitting inside the hosue, but still his house is in Kathmandu, Nepal. And even if he sits inside his house, the chances of him hearing/seeing what goes on in the streests are more than someone who is connected to Nepal via internet and who is 5000000 miles away.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 01:02 PM
I careless whether Dipak Gyawali refused an offer to Ph.D. program or not, but, yes, I think its wrong to claim what is not true as such. I think I got Biswoji's concern on this issue.
The worst political party in nepal is NC. This goddamn party got majority in the parliament not just once but twice. And both time damn bhates couldn't sort out their petty differences. "dissolving the parliament" became a game. yaso uso garyo..kuro milena ki....maibap ko chakari ma gayo....garyo binti "parabho udaidinu paryo yo damn parliament". Kangressi were and still busy calculating who is gaining who is losing weight in the party or in the rival party. I guess the need of the hour for girija kangress is to collapse shere kangress and teach him a lesson. shere kangress is trying to collect whatever is left. The same bhate who went to king with a recommendation to dissolve the parliament now wants the parliament back. Shere says if he is reinstated to the position of PM, everything will be constitutional. Yeah right. Girija with his shaven head was waging his tail with a "dam" in fron of this king in Hanumandhoka then. Now, he talks about grand design. What the hell was he doing then when he was aware of this so-called damn grand design?
Why couldn't all these political parties join the government and work for the betterment of the nation and the people? If they sincerely devote themselves to the service of the nation and still narayanhiti interferes then they should resign from their position. They should publicly condemn how they were interfered; What they wanted to do and how they were discouraged. Will they do that? I doubt. Work for us- the people -dudes if you bhates want to our leader.
If Madhav nepal was appointed the PM and had he inducted all these current ministers in his cabinet, all UML dudes would've been singing how effective the cabinet is. Now, since that's not the case, the cabinet is full of ineffective dudes for them. No one is good. Ishwor Pokharel says, Madhav Nepal was offered the PM position but he declined. Why? because he (Makune) wants to be an elected PM. What is more important to Madhav Nepal? become an elected PM tomorrow or sort out the black clouds looming over the nation today? Girija is rapidly becoming another bhattrai. He will say whatever he feels like saying. Slowly people will stop taking his comments seriously. This girija dude is a serious villian. He talks about constitutional monarchy but he himself couldn't become a constitutional president of his party.
What does matter to us whether cabinet is king's or Madhav's or Girija's? If the cabinet works for us, shouldn't we be happy?
In the US, we all know, American people do not elect their president. Electoral college does. In the last election, Gore got the more popular vote but Bush got more electoral college vote. So, Bush is a selected president by the electoral college. Anyway, The US President is not a member of the congress. He can't summon the congress. If he wants to address the congress, he has to ask speaker and VP for that. None of his cabinet members are elected. President does not have to come to the congress to tell that body what is he or his cabinet doing. He can't dismiss the congress, but congress can impeach him. Why can't we have a similar system in Nepal? I think this type of system is better for a nation like us. Let the PM be elected directly from the people. Let him/her form a cabinet with whoever he/she wants. Let the parliament function as a legislative body. "boka kin bech pani banda hunchha".
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 03:05 PM
Sparshaji,
I don't support Girija/Makune things. I know one thing: democracy. There is one way, straight way, right way, correct way, and that is our solution. Not king, not hukum pramangi, not paade pajani, that era is over.Shailaja lost election, KP Bhattarai lost election, Jagrit Prasad Bhetwal lost elections, those who were considered strong and indefeatable lost election because people didn't like them. That is what I want. I support what you said about other things, things about USA politics etc. but let's face it, at the hands of a despot in Narayanhiti, we are worse off. Just a quick question: do you think we are better in the last month?
Petrolium price shortage, a daring attack by Maoists and subsequent loss of human lives, ministers like Mandal, how are we better now? For your information, our 'clean' ministers haven't even declared their properties. These are not clean people, these are opportunist fellas, I have no doubt about this, it is just a matter of time before the whole country realises this.
---
Now IFji,
It seems like you don't care about numbers. No one is living 5,00,000 miles away. The earth has a radius of about 6000 KM, yes, that's right. That makes the perimeter of about 40,000 KM. That's the farthest we can live even if we measure in one direction only.
Well, it is the weakest repeated argument thrown over and over by you guys that those living outside of Nepal don't have right to talk about Nepali politics, or don't know a damn thing. This is another example of 'politics of exclusion'.
Look, I have right to speak about Nepal's politics. Sajha.com is a place that connects Nepali people from all over the world. Everybody talks about his/her country. I am in USA for study, you were here for study and I am sure you talked a whole lot about Nepal in gbnc.org and soc.culture.np, and so did Ashu. So please keep this nonsense with you.
Now, for Winning Padma Ratna , yes, great! But you don't win election by getting more votes than Padma Ratna , do you? You have to be number one, and that's what Mandale, Rajakaa pichhalaggu and quasi-intellectuals can't do. They can't persuade people, and that's why they lose election. Simple and straight.
In democracy, you have to demonstrate your right to govern by winning elections. There is no short cut. Only cowards and opportunists govern with nigaaha. This statement will look strong to you, but this is the truth.
---
Now for Ashu,
Let me just reply to your one more inane argument .
>I really don't care whether Dipak Gyawali has a PhD or
> not, nor do I particularly care whether his professors at
>Cal Berkeley asked him to stay on to do a PhD, and that
>he, by his own account, decided otherwise and/or refused.
Well, I care. You wrote it here, I care. I want to know what the hell happened. If "Dipak Dai" is lying to his sojha sajhaa bhai bahini in Kathmandu, I want to know, now that he is in 'swachhchha' government.
Look, when some fellow posters talked about their work in planning commission, you asked them for detail, didn't you? Now, I want the detail of this thing if you can provide. Can you tell me in exactly what words he said he 'refused to complete PhD from Berkeley'? I am tired of your repeated ranting about 'Dipak daile pani phd garna refuse garnu bhayo, Bikas (dai or bhai?) le pani PhD garna refuse garnu bhayo, ahaa kya mahaan, brilliant people , pakkai aba ta raamro din aauchha etc. etc.' Otherwise, your claim is something you better tell to kids around Jaawalakhel.
Which of your friends in Harvard refused PhD offers, btw, Ashu. And from which universities did they get offer and refused? People getting PhD offers from different universities refuse offer of relatively lower ranked universities, I know. But someone refusing PhD offer in Berkeley and going to Hawaai? Something fishy going on there. You don't care , I care, because inquisitive I am about this thing, and specially intolerant I am about lies by public officials (now that they are).
Look, I don't blame you. People lied to you probably, but looks like you are more gullible than I think you are. I hope you are not, I hope I will be proven wrong, but 'proven' is the key word.
Have fun now that your dai is minister.
(This last sentece is in a lighter note:-) )
|
| zero_creativity |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 03:41 PM
What is important democracy or stability ( security)? I guess this is this main issue of this thread. However there is another interesting issue about phd thing which isnot my concern.
But as far as my understanding, Chand ( King's) governement is also incapable to restore peace in Nepal.
I am with Biswo cocnerns. Sovereignty means a lot for average nepali like me. During 12 years I agree that we didnot get anticipated success but we did have sovereignty. Look today, situation is even worse now. Not even better than incapable Seuba Government. Can somebody convience me how situation will be improved in following days with same beaurocrat and same army and same police. It is also old wine in a new bottle. We dont need this government by sacrificing our Democracy.
But still I think this is time to be united. King should give power back to Nepali people and make an apology with nepali people. It is time to make a strong govenement in Nepal including all political forces (if possible including Maoist). Otherwise only one winner will be Maoist who is getting all advantages of this chaos.
Biswoji good arguments!!!!! Keep it up.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 04:00 PM
"I don't support Girija/Makune things. I know one thing: democracy. There is one way, straight way, right way, correct way, and that is our solution. Not king, not hukum pramangi, not paade pajani, that era is over.Shailaja lost election, KP Bhattarai lost election, Jagrit Prasad Bhetwal lost elections, those who were considered strong and indefeatable lost election because people didn't like them. That is what I want. I support what you said about other things, things about USA politics etc. but let's face it, at the hands of a despot in Narayanhiti, we are worse off. Just a quick question: do you think we are better in the last month?
Petrolium price shortage, a daring attack by Maoists and subsequent loss of human lives, ministers like Mandal, how are we better now? For your information, our 'clean' ministers haven't even declared their properties. These are not clean people, these are opportunist fellas, I have no doubt about this, it is just a matter of time before the whole country realises this."
Biswoji, I am not a defender of Hu. Pra. , Paade Pajani or the King. King does not need my defense. I am not against democracy either. But democracy only works when leaders and followers both know/realize/understand what democracy is (same definition). This takes time. Right now, most of the nepalis don't have time to enroll in democracy 101. It's save-your-gardan 101 tops the list these days. This is not the time for political parties to fight over who should be the PM, who should hold home ministry, who should hold defense….or who can caugh and who cannot. Nation is in dire need of national consensus. Instead of working to create an environment for national consensus, they keep complaining. Political parties have completely forgotten the "sovereign" people. They are focusing too much on narayanhiti. They know they are weak.
Shailaja lost the last election. She might be elected in the next one (whenever that is). KP Bhattrai won the last election from Bara, I think. Yeah, he had lost couple of times from ktm. Jagrit Bhetwal also lost the election from Chitwan. Surya bahadur lost the election from dhankuta right after multi-party system was introduced. But he quickly gained his seat back. So, what are we talking about here? Same person wins and loses election from the same constituency, Biswoji. I am not as sure as you are on this election winning/losing matter. I have seen unpopular people winning election and popular people losing election. Many other things play role in an election besides popularity/unpopularity. Especially in our country, election incorporates many unofficial tactics.
I also want bad people to lose election but they many harip bhates emerge as damn winners. Is Girija a popular leader? Not to me. This system of contesting a seat from more than one constituency is something I don't like also.
" do you think we are better in the last month?"
Biswoji, Defenders of "Democracy" say 12 years is too short period to evaluate a system. And you are asking me to evaluate a government, which is not even 120 days old?
" Petrolium price shortage, a daring attack by Maoists and subsequent loss of human lives, ministers like Mandal, how are we better now? For your information, our 'clean' ministers haven't even declared their properties. These are not clean people, these are opportunist fellas, I have no doubt about this, it is just a matter of time before the whole country realises this."
In the past too, we had petroleum price hike. I am not sure what caused this hike. We do not produce petroleum in Nepal. So, I am not sure whether the hike was rational or not. Maobadi's attack is not something new. They've been carrying out attacks no matter who is the string master.
" These are not clean people, these are opportunist fellas, I have no doubt about this…"
Ok Biswo ji. Fine. But can you provide a list of "clean" and " not opportunists" people in Nepal? I want to know who do you think are "the people" to lead our nation.
With high regard,
sparsha
|
| wy |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 04:33 PM
Ashu:
"Even if, for the sake of argument, he was indeed bragging the whole thing to me
and others, I really don't care, as long as he makes sense when it comes to talking rigorously/intelligently about Nepal's policies related to hydropower and water
resources -- his area of supposed expertise."
Don't take it otherwise Ashu, and I like your postings quite a bit. Even when they are unfair and uncalled for, I find them logically articulated. But on this one, you are being very situational about your judgement.
Importantly, I think you should care. Because, you constantly claim to have a critical mind, and I think you do, and how you are so good at asking sharp questions and that how you have touched many many lives with your intelligence and how you are admired by those 3000 names on your palm organizer, and plus how easily you do not get fooled by so-called intellectuals and their accomplishment (I believe this too). You demand higher standards in critical thinking (peer reviewed papers) and you expect high integrity from people in high offices. Even your remark about Paschim and Arnico as a general statment, I found to be quite consistent with your views.
I had a genuine feeling about meeting with you in Kathmandu just to see how you were like in person.
Now, on DG and the issue of Ph.D. you are being very selective. Why is it so hard to acknowledge perhaps that you made a mistake in characterizing his statement. That will just end all this. Or that DG is just a human being like many other foreign return Nepalis who need to do a little bit of a white lie, because of our culture, to fend off all those prying relatives and friends. That will end this too.
I swear, it is very hard for me see you defend statements like: PhD is a waste of time, so and so refused to complete his PhD at Berkeley, and I don't care if DG lied to me about it.
If someone else had made that satement, you would have shreded that person apart. Again, I am recalling a incidence involving MP and his simple question about security in Kathmandu. Then too, I thought, you were doing fine, knowing your style of posting--no offense. (I did not like what MP started doing afterthe initial round accusing you of a rape.)
Peace!!!
|
| ??! |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 05:21 PM
Election? and Choice? I read somewhere an article about democracy. Yes, in democracy we have choice to elect somebody our leader. However, what choices are available? Just few suckers. We will have to chose less sucker of them, one at a time.
Though that was a humorous article, it seems to be true in Nepali election. Otherwise why the same person losses or wins while contesting election from the same place? The difference of expectation and outlook of people to a particular candiate among all candiates counts. Anyway, I am still convinced that democracy is choosing the worst candidate of all candidates (with few exceptions).
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 05:26 PM
>In the past too, we had petroleum price hike. I am not
>sure what caused this hike. We do not produce petroleum
>in Nepal. So, I am not sure whether the hike was rational
>or not. Maobadi's attack is not something new. They've been
>carrying out attacks no matter who is the string master.
Yes, exactly my point, Sparshaji.And we differ in our analysis right there too.
We had these evils in the past too. But we had right to remove the prime minister. Our right was with us. Now king throws everything of the system in tupsy turvy . He claims of inducing 'clean' people in parliament, he lurches dangerously along a path that leads to noise, mutual distrust and destruction in this dire situation, and all this for what? He hasn't been able to deliver on what he promised. "Swachhchha people?" "Sakshyam Sarkaar" etc. etc.. all are gradually becoming joke.
Since the king claimed so much, this government needs to be better. It has to prove it is better. This price raise, according to Nepali newspaper, was because of remark by DPM Mandal who said prices would rise. If flippancy of DPM was responsible for this, don't you penalize the DPM? Or aren't you supposed to penalize the petrolium merchants? Now if you are DPM, you are saying price would rise, what the heck you expect the venal oil merchants to do? Hide and wait, right? If you stuffs is worth twenty rupees tomorrow and ten rupees today, what you do? Hide and wait, right? That's what happened this time. Something different from what happened in the past shortages. Again I am not defending the past crises, just pointing out blemishes in new things.
The same evil of last 12 years are now all over us plus an arrogant king and centralised power. Given the choice, I prefer less evil: the system of past.
>" These are not clean people, these are opportunist fellas, I have
> no doubt about this…" Ok Biswo ji. Fine. But can you provide a
>list of "clean" and " not opportunists" people in Nepal? I want to
> know who do you think are "the people" to lead our nation.
Sparshaji, of course, you are on the top of my list. :-)
On a serious note, I don't think I am entitled to 'choose' clean people. My principle is 'people' will be given choices, and they will choose. Whoever they choose deserves to rule us(them). They(or someone elected by them) have to be given choices. That's my point.
|
| ??! |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 05:33 PM
And that is democracy. At least we had choice to take best among the worsts. Now we have lost that right too.. we are left with no choice but to accept what is given by someone's daya maya kripa.... aru je je sabdharu chhan.. tinai tinai..
I think Biswoji's point lies there...
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 07:40 PM
Some 12 hours ago, I posed a few simple questions about an assertion that has been publicly made here about a public figure.
***Did he refuse an offer that was made? Did he refuse an offer that was never made? Did he actually ever claim that he refused such an offer whether made or not made? Did Deepak dai's Ashu bhai inaccurately assert on Sajha something that DG might or might not have made? Or is Ashu rightly and accurately reporting publicly a claim that Deepak dai made to him in private? Or has Deepak dai's claim about his "refusal" been public knowledge all along?***
This morning, I was hoping to find a straight answer, so that fresh doubts about the integrity and credibility of the Minister could be settled. Didn't see one.
So I have just written to Minister Gyawali, forwarded to him this discussion, and politely requested him to clarify what the truth is about an assertion that has been attributed to him in public.
I am looking forward to the Minister's response so that my faint concern that he may have lied to Nepalis in Nepal about this extremely important issue put to rest for good.
|
| NirajBS |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 08:27 PM
Biswo says: I know one thing: democracy. There is one way, straight way, right way, correct way, and that is our solution.
******
I am a little surprised by the tone of moral certitude in your lines, not only given the results of Nepal's experiment with "democracy" for the past twelve years, but also because such "undisputed" paths are usually found in Marxist literature that usually champions the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. 'Democracy' doesn't guard itself in quite such absolute terms (which is to its credit) and the reason why we find many communist parties in a democratic country but not vice-versa.
I think the larger issue is: most Nepalis, living both within Nepal and outside. are deeply disillusioned with the "democracy" practised in Nepal for the past dozen years which has brought Nepal to such a precipice. Unless we believe in the "grand design" theory of Girija Prasad, many would argue that the constant jousting for power both between parties and within parties (esp. NC) left a power vaccum that has now been filled by the extreme left and the extreme right. The mainstream political parties, esp the NC, has lost little of what remained of its legitimacy. The King's actions, without doubt, is a setback, adding chaos to confusion. But he is able to act with such impunity only because the other political players have largely discredited themselves.
Given this scenario, the Nepalis who still have faith in a democratic society should come with better arguments, than just parroting that 'democracy' is the best possible system in the long run and saying it's superior to other systems because people can periodically vote every five years. It may well be that democracy is the best possible system in the long run, but as someone famously put it, we are all dead in the long run. And a 'democracy' that fails to deliver the goods (like in Nepal) will have little other than its sense of vacous moral righteousness to fall back on.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 08:44 PM
Now IFji,
It seems like you don't care about numbers. No one is living 5,00,000 miles away. The earth has a radius of about 6000 KM, yes, that's right. That makes the perimeter of about 40,000 KM. That's the farthest we can live even if we measure in one direction only.
---
Biswo ji,
I am not a physicist or astrologer, so yeah i don't care much abouty nos. so thanks fior corerecting me. but, that no. was to imply that you guys are farther than nepal, and are NOT CONNECTED with the reality.
Biswo, you seek security and peace, not freedom of speech and elections if a bomb goes off 200 meters from your house.
You don't care much about democracy when all the democrats are portraying themselves as JOKERS.
You don't care much about democracy when youi come home, watch TV and all you are shown is mancheko-lassh. The destruction caused by the maoists and small children crying over their parents' untimely death.
THAT"S WHY I SAY< TALK POLITICS GUYS BUT COME ACCEPT REALITY. JUJST BEACAUS YOU OER SOME OF YOUR DEMOCRATIC FRIENDS--WHO ARE D/C FROM NEPAL--DO NOT SUPPORT THE KING'S MOVE OR STILL GO ON AROUND SAYING IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL, THEN, GOOD LUCK..BUT YOIU GUYS' RANTING DOES NOT AFFECT US, NEPALIS WHO ARE IN NEPA BECAUSE WE ARE NOW HOPING THAT SOMETHING POSITIVE MIGHT HAPPEN.
BANDAR LE AFNO GHAR PANI BANAU DAINA, ARKAKOP GHAR PANI BANUNA DIDAINA... COME ON, YOU EDUCATED FOLKS, WHY YOU KEEP ON RANTING WHEN YOU KNOW THAT ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANY EFFECT WHATSOEVER. INSTEAD CHANNEL THAT ENERGY TO SEND SUGGESTIONS TO THJE MISNISTERS, LET THEM WORK, ENCOURAGE THEM TO WORK IN A GOOD MANNER.
I WOULD RATHER SUPPORT, AND MANY NEPALIS NOW SUPPORT THE KING THAN MAKUNE SAKUNE BHAKUNE AND ARDHA PAGAL GIRIJA.
ITS IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE I WANT TO STAY AWAY FROM THIS REALLY STUPID WASTE OF TIME DISCUSSION BUT BEFORE THAT I WANT MY VOICE HEARD.
SO LONG, PADHYA LEKHYA GHUMYA, K K GARYA BUT LIVING IUN FANTACY LAND INTELLECTUALS AND PESUDO INTELLECRTUALS.
YOU GUYS ARE THE INTELLIGENT ONES... MAAN KO LADDU GHYTU SITA KHAU, BASA.
SPARSHA: GOOD ARGUMENTS THERE. BE CONSISTENT.
|
| NirajBS |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 08:47 PM
Paschim say: I am looking forward to the Minister's response so that my faint concern
^^^^
that he may have lied to Nepalis in Nepal about this extremely important issue put to
^^^^^^^^^^^^
rest for good.
Paschim,
It seems like the debate about Minister DG making the remark about his offered PhD is getting out of hand.
It's more likely that, he was asked by his advisor if he wanted to continue with a PhD. If that is the case, how is one to verify that ? It will be DG's words against others. It's been over sixteen years since DG has graduated from Berkeley and it's unlikely that a Professor will remember a student for so long.
But why do you say it's an extremely important issue? And if it's one, why only a 'faint concern'. And in any case, do we usually put our ministers under this level of scrutiny ?
This looks more like a Senate hearing over a Supreme Court judge :)
Best
Niraj
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 09:02 PM
WY-ji,
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Dipak Gyawali lied to me, and that I in my Biswo-awarded "gullible" avatar, reported DG's "lie" as some truth here.
Now, who's being HARMED here?
Was I harmed?
No.
I can very well tolerate occasional bluster, bravado and "foo-ee-fai" that some Nepalis express about themselves in and out of Nepal.
Was DG himself harmed?
No.
His career seems to have taken off quite well without a PhD. Do a google search on
him and read his papers and presentations.
Was Berkeley's economics department harmed?
No.
Every year, it gets more applicants than it has seats for.
So, EVEN if, for the sake of pure argument, Dipak Gyawali did lie to me about his PRIVATE -- and I repeat PRIVATE -- achievement, the CONSEQUENCES are small enough for me to overlook and let that be that.
Unlike Paschim and Biswo, I am NOT going to judge and question ENTIRE Dipak Gyawali on the basis of whether or not he might have told me a little white lie once upon a time, and even if he did indeed tell me such a white lie about his PRIVATE -- and I repeat PRIVATE achievement or lack thereof -- I consider that to be insignificant for me to get worked up about.
So, on a larger note, even IF people do tell little white lies about their PRIVATE selves
to get by in this world, I am NOT going to get worked up over their white lies like our friends Biswo and Paschim . . . who seem, if my intuition is correct, more and more eager to find a way to nail and slam me for my knocking Paschim's that "under-30 work for NPC" claims down by a few notches last month than in accepting Nepal's realities as
they are and then pushing for ways to make our society more democratic, even
when doing that appears to be a BIG challenge right now.
Biswo's attempt to draw up a parallel re: how I went after Paschim over the
Planning Commission gigs and tie that up with my inconsistency CONTINUES to demonstrate that Biwo has a remarkable capacity to compare apples to
oranges and call them both onions.
Look, I am NOT an investigative journalist, but the more I find out about Pashim's NPC work, the more convinced I get that his was a good, temporary and modest contribution, and a fairly ROUTINE practice in Nepal's development work, and if my saying that publicly makes Paschim -- especially Paschim who has even implied that I
was being jealous and more -- well, tough luck, ke garne and that's life!!
Just as I expect Paschim to keep me honest in public by FAIRLY challenging -- even vehemently -- my thoughts and ideas, I too expect him to accept my questions
without getting personal and without publicly or privately ridiculing me and without
seemingly trying to revenge himself upon me for DARING to question him once.
If he cannot play a fair game, then, that's his problem, NOT mine, and I, for one, in my own limited capacity, am not going to remain one of thse easily impressed, awe-struck Nepalis for long.
As for PhD programs, I well understand people have dfferent reasons for
completing and not completing them, and, nlike Biswo, I am NOT going to second-guess
and impugn their reasons either way.
Maybe it's INCONCEIVABLE for someone like Biswo to imagine that SOME people -- Nepais and non-Nepalis -- would actually say "no thanks" to top-rated PhD programs
all the time, but I one would have no problem imagining some people saying just that to pursue other options that are more in line with their interests. This was my point, EVEN if what DG told was the truth. [I already told you even if he had lied to me, I wouldn't have cared in the LAREGE scheme of things.]
More later.
I'm running late for my Chinese class at Biswo Bhasa campus.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| sucharya |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 09:41 PM
In Nepal "PhD" is used as a handy tool of "rent seeking" by not only PhD holders but also non-holders. I still do not understand why one need to make irrelevant reference of "refusing PhD offer" if one is comepetent and smart professionally.
Once again, a hair-splitting debate on PhD? Given that the debate is so samartly steered by sajha stars Biswo and Paschim, I would be happy to see this issue ("refusing PhD offer") beaten to death so that it is closed once and for all.
Sucharya
--------------------------
|
| wy |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 09:53 PM
DG's statement on the massacre a year ago:
"Moreover, at this time when the massacre of King Birendra and the rest of the royal family has left a serious political vacuum and raised fears about the survival of Nepal as a nation, Prince Gyanendra's no-nonsense clarity of direction as demonstrated during the funeral was reassuring, says Deepak Gyawali, who has worked with Prince Gyanendra in the King Mahendra Conservation Trust. He can be ruthless, but who knows, it may be the very reason he may get along better with Girija Prasad Koirala than the vacillating King Birendra."
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:01 PM
Sucharya: liked your argument on "PhD rent seeking" syndrome in Nepal.
I remember such issues, a man who does not have SLC pose "Masters Garna sakiyena, to illude I have Bachelor" : is it a White lie? Such trend was quite often heard in college class rooms. Tyo Sir le "PhD." hapera ayeko re? Tyo sir ko PhD ko thesis arko le chorera usle po PHD. payo re, ani yo bahula jasto bhayera hideko re? Well, when you are in highschool or intermediate or even Bachelor in Nepali colleges, these things are exactly fitting in "yo hallai halla ko desh ho". Everyone seeks higher "RENT" by spreading that rumors. They tell it in Nepali, using "asosthama hatohata" fashion, and then, someone translate it using wrong words, because there are hardly 20% words in nepali and english that can have exact translation fit on all instances. "Malai PHD gare huncha bhaneko thiyo, tara maile swikar nagari farke". ........... It reminds a joke that someone spread in our college days. A beautiful girl was in front of our campus, we were in hostel. So, we (including me???hahhahh) used to peep through when she passed infront of campus and towards bus station. ........... When she was not seen for a few days, some one spreads "make a guess", falano le tyo KT lai udayera lagyo re ...... After a week later we hear, she is pregnant re........... then, after few months ...... breake bho re tyo keta sanga ... abortion gari re .......... And, she was seen as normal the same route .............. kya hai "pet bokera ani falera pani .... ajhai salakka pareki chha ba..........". The cycle repeated several times, .......... I don't what happened to the end. In Nepal such rumors continue in all spheres..... Its all rent seeking sickness or syndrome or whatever we call. I still wonder, what DG said in exactly Nepali if someone translated it in English.
Sucharya ji, Sanchai!! Sashiburi desu ne!!!
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| wy |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:11 PM
Ashu,
I am honestly now curious about DG. Could you please point me to some site where I can see his vitae? Since he is a public figure, it would not be unfair for me or anyone else to check out his vitae to see his credential to see it matches his public reputation.
I checked the google as per your suggestion, I did not see a single substantial piece that was of noteworthy. A bunch of news comments and talk quotes and news bites came up. He had something about NGO being in the new bottle.
I may not have done the search properly.
Honestly, in Kathmandu it is not that difficult, with or without PhD, to get noticed and perceived as WOW, U ta Bhayenkar Genious Cha. It may all be about self-promotion too. I know some very bright and hard woking people who have made a difference in Nepal, and yet they are very low key person.
Peace!!!
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:49 PM
NirajBSji,
I agree with you about the performance of political parties in the past 12 years. But that doesn't provide any pretext for what is clearly a despotic act by the king that is taking the country towards the divisive and unpredictable path.
King is not looking at our interest. He is looking at his own interest. He is looking for pawns to do that for him. This is what I understand from his acts, and his past speeches. He is not answerable to anyone, how can we believe him, how can we correct him?
I agree my staunch belief in democracy to some extent sounds like an intransigent position evinced exactly by the followers of non-democratic faith, even partly resembling to that of communists , but isn't that what two-thousand-year long practice of human civilization adequately, rigorously proved already?
----
Dear Ashu,
Yes, I wanted you to say this: you don't care even if he lied to you.
And to tell you the truth, I adequately know you why you don't care even if he lied to you. Friends, dai, bhai, naataa gotaa, these are damn weakness for a lot of people. Only very few courageous people can 'renounce' their minister acquaintees if need arises.
Here you are, a few days ago signing petition against king's move, and a few days later, congratulating Dipak dai for becoming minister and justifying king's almost all moves: that 180 degree turn, something only few people can do.
Now, you are a master of portraying yourself as victim, I know that, no more need to whine about how I and Paschim are being vindictive , how I am comparing apple and orange bla bla bla. Look, that NPC thing, I could have berated you if I wanted at that thread. I didn't do because I thought being inquisitive about 'publicly made claims' were ok. But look at you, you are contradicting yourself again and again, and now, you are whining saying 'these guys are taking revenge'.
I don't take 'revenge'. That ruthless word is not in my dictionary. Kings, dictators and some mean people do that. But please, practice what you preach.
Look, if you are posting something here, congratulating some fella openly, loudly, claiming the guy is this much mahaan, that much mahaan, and he did this, he did that, you don't have to be snappy when someone asks you if your claims are verifiable.
Where am I wrong? But you wanted an escape, tried to manage one by connecting that NPC thing of Paschim here, something utterly irrelavant, blaming me of taking care of Nepali politics from Houston, TX and bla bla bla.
It just shows that you don't want to be questioned. It is fine for you as long as you can ask other questions. This is not fine when others ask you question. This is a hypocrisy very few people can adroitly show.
Sorry for spoiling your party, after all your 'Dipak dai' is minister now, my friend.
|
| sucharya |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 10:49 PM
wy,
Appreciate your creative skepticism!
ISI web (for Science Citation Index) is more appropriate place to look for one's PEER REVIEWED works (rather than google.com).
Problem among intelectuals in Nepal is that they do not make any disctinction between publications in reputed journals and newpapers op-ed pages. Same is the case with original and second hand ideas.
HG Gurudev: Hontauni sashiburi desune!
Sucharya
---------------------------------------
|
| U_2 |
Posted
on 19-Nov-02 11:08 PM
One of the things to watch in coming days would be how Deepak Gyawanly will handle the issue of exporting surplus electricty currently available in Nepal. NEA has been trying very hard to sell this surplus electricty to Bihar and UP in India to its reduce its losses. Recently, Ajaya Dixit argued against such export in the Kantipur. Since Deepak Gyawali and Ajaya Dixit thinks alike, it will be interesting now to watch how DG will deal with NEA and handle this issue.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 04:06 AM
Biswo,
Why do you even care about Dipak Gyawali, given that he is a part of the
"illegitimate" cabinet?
Since Gyawali's portfolio itself, according to you, is illegitimate, does it really matter to you whether he lied to me or not?
This is what I found most curious.
To take NirajBS's points further, why are you and Paschim so worked up over the VERACITY of what DG said to me when that was, in the larger scheme of things, a relatively MINOR, hard-to-verify and harmless throw-away remark?
If you are trying to imply that DG was NEVER offered a position at Berkeley to begin
with, and that he lied to me and how that reflects in a khattam way on him is, well,
go ahead and imply that.
I, for one, am simply NOT buying your far-fetched characterization of DG for reasons
I have already given you. And I am NOT as gullible as you think.
Since YOU -- and NOT paschim -- brought that NPC ko kura and tried to draw a
parallel here, it's obvious that you are trying very hard to portray me as someone with double standards, when the fact remains that there ARE distinctions that you seem
to be either deliberately or unintentionally blurring for all the wrong reasons.
That's so because you seem to draw NO distinction between what is private and what is
public. This is where you and I have fundamental differences.
Paschim's self-asserted NPC works were public enough to be questioned and verified here . . . adding more to the debate here so that we all can benefit from a discussion re: how policioes are made and unmade in Nepal. Dipak's one-sided assertion was harmless and narrow enough to be either believed or merely smiled at, and that would be that. This is the difference I want you to understand.
What more do you want to tell you as honestly and as openly as these forums allow?
Finally, though I do NOT agree with all of Dipak's views, I do hold him in high esteem, and my personal congratulations to him (for being a Minister for his own reasons)
need NOT be construed as a wholesale applause for the King's move.
If Dipak Dai can reform the NEA so that more power/bijuli can be produced more and cheaper bijuli in Nepal, then, that would be a contribution enough, and I am rooting for his succcess . . . . and that is what I told him on the phone this morning.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 08:43 AM
Biswoji,
What is the real issue here regarding Ph.D. stuff?
* What Ashu said DG said? or,
* What DG said?
"My principle is 'people' will be given choices, and they will choose. Whoever they choose deserves to rule us(them). They(or someone elected by them) have to be given choices. That's my point."
I got your point, Biswoji. But that is exactly what we have been doing for the past 12 years. People had choices (between bad, worse, and the worst most of the time) and they chose. Unfortunately, whoever they choose DID NOT deserve to rule us (them). They (or someone elected by them) were given choices but they failed miserably. They still have choices and they again are failing. However, the day is not over yet. If they want they can still correct their position and win people's heart.
I will support whoever works honestly to maintain and enhance peace and prosperity in the nation. To me, peace in the nation to pave the way for prosperity is more important, today, than a definition of democracy and residency of sovereignty.
|
| kewl |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 09:55 AM
OH GOD...Whats' the issue here...? Mr Biswo ji..cant you simply agree that DG has been raising his voice for some issue in Nepal..and its better to have some knowledgeable guy on that chair rather than some stupid...
>>>>>
My principle is 'people' will be given choices, and they will choose. Whoever they choose deserves to rule us(them). They(or someone elected by them) have to be given choices. That's my point."
Are you in Nepal or USA..If you are in USA your principle works but in Nepal IT DID NOT WORK. Last 12 yrs we have seen it. Things need to be changed...
|
| Jhilke Kyailan |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:08 AM
To blame the current crisis on the last 12 years is not a very fair analysis....No one doubts that the current batch of politicians ("democratic", not the best word to describe them but only to differentiate them from the current batch of ministers who have been ROYALLY appointed) especially in the Nepali congress and particularly GP, and his advisors, have failed miserably. Those of them who are corrupt should be properly investigated and dealt with. But are they not a by product of the general states of Nepali politics for the past 2 centuries????? Shall we talk abou the injustices of the past???.....Ghush khanne ta panchayat ma pani thiye...I know of one guy who was telecoms sachib and had 12 phones in his name and during that time, built 8 houses in Ktm...many such examples abound......will he and those like him ever be punished?????? Sparsha, I think you need to open your eyes to the fact that the politicians of today were bad but the ones from yesterday even worse...especially because we couldn't vote them out from power.....plus I was told (have no independant verification, but i consider the source reliable) that one of the reasons we had such idiotic leaders in the parties today was that during the panchayat most of the intelligent, capable, morally strong leadership of the two largest parties (then in opposition were killed). So no wonder.......
As for ashu, I don't doubt your democratic credentials.....any maybe you have put your self in "harms way" as you have pointed out so many times......no doubt the situation in Nepal is difficult at the moment and one must carefully choose ones words, saying the wrong thing could land you in some trouble, but clarify one thing please, how can you, on one hand, sign a petition such as that, and on the other extend congratulations , on a public forum, to a man(qualified as he may be) who is benefitiing from the very same thing you were petitioning against???? Don't know, but couldn't that be mis-interpreted by people ( and unfortunately there are many here who seem to deliberately mis-interpret anything and everything you say).
|
| Jhilke Kyailan |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:09 AM
sorry about the "double talk"
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:28 AM
"Sparsha, I think you need to open your eyes to the fact that the politicians of today were bad but the ones from yesterday even worse...especially because we couldn't vote them out from power.....plus I was told (have no independant verification, but i consider the source reliable) that one of the reasons we had such idiotic leaders in the parties today was that during the panchayat most of the intelligent, capable, morally strong leadership of the two largest parties (then in opposition were killed). So no wonder....... "
Jhilkey ji,
What you think is your thought and I, obviously, don't own them. You, of course, are free to think the way you want. However, "hijo ka le ni ta ghus khaka thiyeni.." is a lame excuse. What bad things panchayate bhrasta dudes did should not work as a precedent for the leaders in this "democratic" system. These leaders were supposed to be better. "nabhaye yo bahudal..prajatantra kina chahiyeko thyo?". The question should be how better are we today not how worse. If we are worse off than the system has problems. Serious problems. We must realize this. " Panche bhrasta thiye rey bhandai ma tyo chalan chalaunai parchha bhanne chhaina." Corrupt behaviors of yesterdays should not work as a license to continue on corruption (moral, ethical, socio-economic, political..) and make things worse.
"I was told (have no independant verification, but i consider the source reliable) that one of the reasons we had such idiotic leaders in the parties today was that during the panchayat most of the intelligent, capable, morally strong leadership of the two largest parties (then in opposition were killed). So no wonder......."
But I wonder, jhilkey ji. Two leaders were killed(?) and the system went out of control? what kind of system are we talking about here? Are you blaming the death of BP and Madan Bhandari for all this chaos? I wonder....seriously wonder!
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:00 AM
JK wrote:
**************
As for ashu, I don't doubt your democratic credentials.....any maybe you have put your self in "harms way" as you have pointed out so many times......no doubt the situation in Nepal is difficult at the moment and one must carefully choose ones words, saying the wrong thing could land you in some trouble, but clarify one thing please, how can you, on one hand, sign a petition such as that, and on the other extend congratulations , on a public forum, to a man(qualified as he may be) who is benefitiing from the very same thing you were petitioning against???? Don't know, but couldn't that be mis-interpreted by people ( and unfortunately there are many here who seem to deliberately mis-interpret anything and everything you say).
***********
JK,
Thank you for bringing this up, and asking me this question.
Allow me to answer this as clearly as I can.
I opposed the King's move NOT by shouting myself hoarse on sajha, nor too by dispensing a list of "yesto hooonoo parcha; testo hooonoooo parcha", but by informally getting together with a few lawyer friends (who, by the way, worked much harder on the petition than I did) to see what legal levers could be pulled in Nepal.
When the Supreme Court threw out the petition, then, it was clear that unless one wanted to be a saheed all the way, be ready to get arrested and all that, there was
not much of a Constitutional/legal argument to be made as long as the Constitution stands as it is in today's Nepal and as long as the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution as it does today.
Once I grudgingly accepted this reality as it was, then, I looked around for an alternative. The political parties seemed to offer NOT hope and solutions, but draining jhagada after jhagada, and were doing nothing but bickering amongst themselves, using the democracy to suit ONLY their interests. As the US Ambassador put it, "The house was on fire, and [the netas were] arguing [who'd] seep in the master bedroom."
I then looked for NGOs, members of the civil societies and so on and on. They too
seem largely nonchalant, and, despite their rhetoric, non-commital about the whole
idea of democracy. I mean, nobody, except for Krishna Pahadi of Shanti Samaj, wanted to stick their necks out.
Which led me back to re-examining the King's move.
I saw the King making an effort to reach out and placate the political parties; I saw his hand-picked PM doing the rounds at the netas' houses and offices, practically begging them to join the interim government, to help him conduct the elections and to work together to put the Maoist mess behind us all.
But what I saw was nothing but the netas' sniffing and snorting, and refusing to put their petty differences aside, and working together for Nepal's sake. Instead, they were simply massaging their egos and and were driving an uncompromising and even silly bargain as though they were -- with the King in control of the state apparatus -- in
any position to choose.
What's more, the netas also FAILED to provide any credible alternative to the King's move, nor did they even make an attempt to rally the public behind themselves.
It was then I concluded that all that the netas want for themseves is power and that too NOT for the betterment of janata . . . just like what they were doing for the last 12 years.
Which led me further into examining the King's role again, and, in a way, I resent the political parties for unwittingly creating a scenario in which the King has now emerged
as the relatively less sullied and the most credible player in the game. This King is like "King Mahendra times two"
As for Dipak Gywali: I don't know why he chose to accept the King's offer. But I
know that he is one helluva smart guy, and he must have his reasons -- reasons
that I need NOT second-guess.
Whatever those reasons are, I, for one, am wlling to CELEBRATE his being the
Minister NOT because I applaud the King's move per se [notice that I have NOT talked about other recently appointed ministers at all] but because what Dipak Gyawali as Water Resources Minister -- with his articles, contacts, intelligence and professonal experience -- could mean for our wretched Nepal.
At the least, Dipak knows that he is under a lot of pressure to PRODUCE something
good and worthwhile in the water resources sector so that he can go back, later, to public life with his head held high. Else, he runs the risk -- all the more -- of being
nothing more than a quack.
And you know what?
As a Nepali citizen, who knows and admires DG, I CELEBRATE that motivating factor n him, that pessure for him live up to his words, by OPENLY and PUBLICLY congratulating Dipak Gyawali on being a Minister.
So, yes; one can NOT like the KIng's move overall, while singling out individuals for
raising hope for a better Nepal, knowing fully well that -- like in any love-affair, I
suppose -- disappointments might result.
I don't know whether this is clear to you, but I have done my best to explain my
thinking.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:09 AM
>Why do you even care about Dipak Gyawali, given that he is
> a part of the "illegitimate" cabinet?
People care about illegitimate things going on their sorroundings.
I cared about illegitimate moves by king and protested, for example.
You know why people care about those illegitimate things, Ashu?
So that they can remove them, so that they can lessen harms arising out of them. People don't leave illegitimate things free, they counter such illegitimate things. That is what I want to do.That's why I care about this illegitimate,invested with no public confidence, cabinet.
>Since Gyawali's portfolio itself, according to you, is
>illegitimate, does it really matter to you whether he
> lied to me or not?
Look, it wouldn't have mattered to me whether he lied to you or not had you kept that to yourself, BUT you made a public assertion here in sajha.
I am tired of your repeated 'tesle pani berkeley ko offer chhodyo, usle pani chhodyo, phd garnu bekaar chha..' type of claims. So, I just wanted to check the fact. Why should you be so sad about that?
You have hinted that it is probably 'inconceivable to Biswo' that 'smart' 'bright' bla bla people 'routinely' reject offers from top schools in USA. Look that was a pretty demeaning thing, but I tolerate that.Of course, It is conceivable to me that some people reject offers from top schools, but it is more conceivable to me that a lot of people brag that they rejected offers from those schools even though they never got one. Look, for example, now if you claim you rejected PhD offer from Harvard Econ department, I am not going to buy that, because I don't believe you can get one (just an example). Plain and simple. Same thing about Gyawali too. Prove me wrong. Show me proof since you are making a 'claim'.
[ On another note, a quick check of google as your suggestion didn't produce any 'peer reviewed' scientific study from Gyawali. Will you show me, honestly? Now don't tell me to look at Himal books published books, and quotation in some newspapers.]
Now you make a claim publicly, and you whine when someone asks you about that, I mean that is really a sad and unintellectual thing.
You think you can ask someone about their publicly asserted claim, and I can't ask you about your publicly asserted thing, well, then I understand your position too. I mean it is perfectly fine for me if you want to have such idelogical position.
---
Sparshaji,
The issue here is :
Whether:
Gyawali lie to Ashu and others about his acadamic achievement.
Or
Ashu deliberately lied here.
Or
If he really was offered PhD thing, and refused to 'complete' that PhD from Berkeley, then what was the basis for that claim?
--
I know the current government is packed with all sorts of people, from loan defaulter to (attempted) rapist, from communalist to opportunist, and I want to know if it is also composed of liars too or not.
Plain and simple.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:09 AM
Ashu,
I enjoyed the content you put forward in your reply to JK ji.
"As the US Ambassador put it, "The house was on fire, and [the netas were] arguing [who'd] seep in the master bedroom."
So true.
|
| jira |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:25 AM
Keta ho! yo thaam ali sano bho jhagda garna . Mailey woota arko thread kholdya chu, thulo thaam cha..chawuda. Balkoni ni cha lurey lamrey harulai. Bicchama thulo ring ni cha kusti khelni bhaye. Sutera dhyaan dhyaang gaurni umpire ni rakhya chu talab khwayera.
Poorba bata mazza sanga ghaam awuncha zado ma. Nyano cha tya. Heen heen keta ho, uta jaaam, thulo thaam ma gayera jhagda garum, herni lai ni mazza...
|
| wy |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:25 AM
Guided by my genuine curiosity about DG and his scholorly achievement, often praised on this any other threads, I did spend time doing a search across a variety of academic search engines and came away empty handed. I did go into science index as well but not too thoroughly.
Can anyone help me guide here? His vitae or any info abou this scholarly work!! Not Nepali Times and Kathmandu Post type pieces or interview clips?
That said, a person who has a Masters degree from a good school plus an open (non-corrupt) mind, who is decently versed in issues and who listens to other's ideas, and is capabale of raising issues and is modest and thoughtfiul and who does not have an ego bigger than his brains is of course going to be a lot better than some of our morally and intellectually bankcrupt representatives.
That does not mean you just can pick a technocract and put him or her in the chair. It takes a lot more than a degree to lead and make a difference.
|
| wy |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 12:00 PM
Did more search on different data bases and found nothing on DG's work.
Peace!!!
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 12:06 PM
Biswo,
Now, you are questioning my integrity, after calling me gullible and more.
Wow, man!!
I now have THREE strikes against you on sajha.
STRIKE ONE:
The Poet Issue:
Once even after I confronted you with some poet's dubious poetry.com credentials, you clung on to your claim here that the poet was indeed a great one, giving gaali to me at the time.
This episode showed me that you REFUSE to accept evidence that contradicts
your viewpoint.
STRIKE TWO:
The traitor issue:
When an editor of a Nepali newspaper expressed reservations about the strength of Nepali Army, you said "down with such a traitor", and when that editor later came to sajha and explained his position, you still did not believe him, and continued raising doubts about his statements.
This episode showed that once you make up your narrow mind, you are closed to any explanations that may widen that closed mind, and it's futile to reaso with you.
STRIKE THREE:
The Dipak Gyawali issue . . . which is here for all to see.
This episode shows to me that when you run out of LEGITIMATE arguments, you resort to ridiculing others, calling them "gullible" and even gong to the length of questioning their integrity over PICAYUNE issues that are NOT even the crux of the arguments
here.
You would make a Maoist proud.
*********
Now, you are welcome to rant and rave, jump up and down, and foam at the mouth, but, you know what, we are not in Chitawan anymore. Deal with it.
That said, I post stuff here as honestly and as openly as I can, and unless I come across better evidence, I stand behind ALL OF my postings, and and that is what makes me oohi ashu for better or worse here . . . and that's that
********
WY,
DG is NOT an academician in an Ameican sense.
Not being a university-based researcher, he has not published tenure-track articles that can show up in Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature index.
His journalistic yet analytical writings can be found in the past issues of Himal, and his semi-academic pieces can be found in this journal called "Water Nepal", which he edits along with others from South Asia.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| jira |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 12:11 PM
woota woota .. woota thaam cha mazza ko
http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=8093
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 12:44 PM
Ashu,
Fine, that is fine, if you think you are great or you won those debates on poetry.com issue, traitor issue or this Gyawali issue. [It contradicts your claim in one previous thread that you 'try' to stick to the subject at hand! But that is how Ashu is, we all know!]
Yes, we are not in Chitwan anymore.
What more?
Do you want me to go back and engage in mudslinging like you do here?
And it is pathetic that when I ask you something about the claim you made so shamelessly and publicly here, you are going back to years and trying to divert issue.
You are welcome to discuss with me about anything you like anytime including those issues you picked up.
But that doesn't prove anything about whether you lied here or not.
Look, next time you make any claim here, be prepared to answer the questions people raise. You can cry, you can whine, you can go back, you can make bogus claims, you can do all things, because sajha is sabaiko sajha.
Your 'strikes' only shows your desperation.It doesn't answer my valid questions.
|
| wy |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 01:23 PM
Ashu,
There is no such thing as Nepali versus American academician. To be a well-versed "scholar" over a subject matter (e.g. water resources) and also do a good policy work, you need to produce and be reviewed. Then you move up the ladder and get into the policy positions.
It is true, especially for him who seems to be hailed as a technical expert who knows about this stuff for Nepal. Newspaper pieces (including Himal) and interview, no matter how well articulated they are, don't count.
Others may differ with me on this, but I am not willing to accept someone's personal assessment declaring him to be sharp, intelligent, great, and better than everyone else in Nepal . Lofty claims require lofty evidence. Like you Ashu, I am not gullible either.
You have repeatedly criticized Neplai "intellectuals" for not doing research to back up their claims and that you are generally have no patience and respect for those who publish in pupular magazines without much peer reviewing. That is, you demand higher standards. I have no problem. You criticized Paschim and Arnico along the same line... needing more proof...saying "I, for one, am not going to accept the so-called policy stuff Nepali intellictuals people claimed have written, and so on." You demanded a lot of clarification. I had no problem there either.
You just can't be selective.
That said, DG is not bad for the position, but let's not try to make him into someone he is not. When you claim that despite refusing to complete his PhD at Berkeley (still can''t fathom this statement) he has become very successful intellectually in the area of water resources issues in Nepal, your are elevating him to a totally different level, and that requires some proofs. It has to be more than your personal assessment, especially in a public forum like this. People are entiled to ask questions especially about the public figires.
I am sure if I met DG I would like him too, and I may appreciate his understanding of the water issues too. I have nothing against DG, and actually I would prefer him overanyone from the gang of 205's.
Peace!!!
|
| wy |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 01:30 PM
"I, for one, am not going to accept the so-called policy stuff Nepali intellictuals people claimed have written, and so on."
Sorry it is not a direct quote. I just used to make a point.
A minor clarification on the following:
"There is no such thing as Nepali versus American academician. To be a well-versed "scholar" over a subject matter (e.g. water resources) and also do a good policy work, you need to produce and be reviewed. Then you move up the ladder and get into the policy positions."
I am talking about a relative rigorousness in case of Nepal.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 01:49 PM
Sparshaji,
The issue here is :
Whether:
Gyawali lie to Ashu and others about his acadamic achievement.
Or
Ashu deliberately lied here.
Or
If he really was offered PhD thing, and refused to 'complete' that PhD from Berkeley, then what was the basis for that claim?
--
I know the current government is packed with all sorts of people, from loan defaulter to (attempted) rapist, from communalist to opportunist, and I want to know if it is also composed of liars too or not.
Plain and simple.
******
Biswoji,
Just look at this scenario:
Ram bahadur "Bibas" dude was working on a masters degree at some foreign univ. He was a good student. Once, one of his professors casually asked him over a cup of coffee in "Shiny Rock Cafe", "..so mr. ram bahadur...since you're an impressive student why don't you go for a Ph. D. program? OR, Would you like to go for a Ph.D. program?" [This is not an offer, please note]. Ram bdr. dai for whatever reason says , "I've not thought about that yet....." Later, Ram bdr. dai returns back to Nepal. After 20 years, one day over a cup of tea at Batase misthanna bhandar, ram. bdr. "bibas" dai says...."saala PH.D. garne bhanya thyo..tara maile garina..."
Now, did Bibas bro lie or not?
That professor may not remember what he might have said to a Bibas dude over a cup of coffee some 20 years ago in Shiny Rock Cafe.
Now, does our ram bdr. "bibas" qualifies to be a "liar" and becomes a condemned one? should we trash every good thing he might have done and scream "liar...liar" at him?
"I know the current government is packed with all sorts of people, from loan defaulter to (attempted) rapist, from communalist to opportunist, and I want to know if it is also composed of liars too or not.
Plain and simple. "
Biswoji, I hope you will remain as vigilent, vocal and critical as you are right now. Since I like to follow your comments, I will be paying attention to your words on different issues and especially when a new cabinet forms with constitutionally elected dudes by the constitutionally declared sovereign nepali people.
I have a lot to learn from you, Biswoji.
Regards.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 01:52 PM
Biswo ji,
One more thing: In my above posting I am neither defending Ashu nor DG. That scenario I posted above is not to defend the people in question but just to learn your reaction.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 02:55 PM
xyji,
I am sure you know that is exactly my point.
Did I ever say DG is dumb guy? No. He is probably better than "Gachhchhadar" etc who were 'jalashrot mantri' before.
But here is a claim made by either 'Dipak dai' or 'his bhai' about how mahaan, brilliant the guy is. Now, it turns out he doesn't have a single 'peer reviewed article' in scientific magazine (Correct me if I am wrong). Publishing political articles in magazines which is run by your friend's relative etc., that's not a big deal. If you don't have people's vote, and you are claiming to be a full minister, you have to show what the hell is your expertise. Where am I wrong here? right?
--
Sparshaji,
I agree with you and in deed we have to learn a lot from each other.
But my point regarding Dipak's case is this: look ,even if he were offerred by a professor for PhD, I want to know 'which professor' offered that position.
In my experience, we live in a small world.[Some graph theorists/anthropologists said the maximum degree of separation is 6: that means there are at most six people between you and a member of tribe in Papua New Guinea or even in Greenland by which you are connected.] Not today, not tomorrow, one day , some of us is very likely to meet the professor. We can ask that question. If DG were real smart, even if the professor wouldn't remember that 'casual' offering, but would say 'may be I offerred' or something like that. But the professor would totally forget the guy if he was dumb in the class. This is the truth.
What's wrong if I want to know how that rejection claim was made. Look, this Ashu fella is celebrating this investiture as minister and claiming he 'refused to complete' PhD in the same thread, don't we have a right to ask, 'how'?
Now look, how he is behaving when I asked the question, he is like I know how you were last year, what you did in Kunda case, poetry case, bla bla bla. I mean this is the most pathetic reply I have ever read in sajha.com. I am asking about an assertion made here, and this fella is insinuating this and that about me, from I can't say anything about Nepal from USA to it doesn't matter to him whether Dipak lied or not to all the garbages. All I wanted was a straight answer of a straight question,
|
| Shiva Shiva!! |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 03:16 PM
Biswo,
I agree with some of your points.
No one grants PHD. You have to achieve it. And its not easy to get in to PHD. So far as DG is concerned, I don't think he rejected it. I am sure he couldn't get into it. However he has pros and cons so far as National issues comes. He is the one who advised on Mahakali issues to UML and he is the one who campaigned against the Arun III. I think he is one of the people of INTEREST GROUP in Nepal.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 03:21 PM
Shiva Shiva!!
"I am sure he couldn't get into it."
Now, this is quite a strong statement. ......
Hari Hari!!!
|
| Yatree |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 04:43 PM
Ashu, Biswo, and other well-known names in this feud are highly regarded contributors of Sajha Samaj. You have your fan base. What you write carry weight (even if you don't realize it) and are read by many with interest. Just look at the thread's viewership - viewed nearly 2500 times! (OK, some of those viewers came to watch tamasha!)
You guys have to learn to realize and say enough is enough. The thread started with a simple congratulatory gesture and ended up with personal accusations - leaving a bitter taste in you. (Some of the spectators might have said Khuchching!)
In my opinion, Ashu should stop interjecting absolutely unnecessary, uncalled for, unrelated, unverifiable (want more un_'s?) things about others. If he has not realized, "by his own account, refused to complete a PhD" was absolutely unnecessary in his posting. And that is the cause for this bitter debate. (Well, if any storm was building between you two for a while, then I don't know.) If not that, may be Biswo would have found something else to explode. In any case, you don't need to win all the discussions and debates. I still have to see Ashu saying, "I'm sorry, I was wrong" or "I went too far".
Some readers still don't understand why Biswo Jangeko?
Now, Biswo should stop making a mountain out of a molehill - in this particular case. (And to be impartial, Paschim is in this Dyang too.) First, Ashu's posting doesn't say that DG refused to complete PhD from "Cal Berkeley". He might have refused from some unnamed university, who knows. Even if he did not receive any offer from any university and DG said he "refused", so what? Don't we all say that? I may say "I refuse to go to Nordstrom or Macy's" or I may say "I absolutely refuse to go to Victoria's Secret [at the dismay of my wife:)] or watch their show on CBS tonight" (just wanted to add this thing). This means I chose not to go there. It is as simple as that.
Biswo has not raised such "truth test" for the past ministers. If you believe what they say, GP, Gupta, Wagle, Gachchhedar all were born wealthy. Satte, Satte, Dhro-Dharma bhrastaachaar garya haina - all of them say that and you didn't make such a fuss about their truthfullness.
I think what Biswo and many of us are pissed off (a la NK) about is that the King's action was illegal and he is getting bolder by the day. There are these so-called clean people willingly becoming King's pawn. They may end up simply being bali ko boka. For me, appointing DG as Water Minister is similar to making Roger Ebert as a director of a movie. Ebert and DG are just critics - and they are good at their jobs. Now, directing a movie or a being a Mantri is a totally different cup of tea.
Anyway, folks, learn to when to say when. Call off before both parties end up flat on the floor - bloodied. You don't have to win all the discussion all the time. Sometimes, saying "I am not going to answer that" or "I am not going to stoop that low" or "no more mudslinging" will make you a better person.
Now, cool down. You got to have something better to do: Go watch a movie, try to get a date, work on your project/dissertation, or try to get your friend's Saalee's email address/phone number. :)
Peace!
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 06:02 PM
Biswo writes:
But here is a claim made by either 'Dipak dai' or 'his bhai' about how mahaan, brilliant the guy is. Now, it turns out he doesn't have a single 'peer reviewed article' in scientific magazine (Correct me if I am wrong). Publishing political articles in magazines which is run by your friend's relative etc., that's not a big deal. If you don't have people's vote, and you are claiming to be a full minister, you have to show what the hell is your expertise. Where am I wrong here? right?
----
This is worthy point to be noted. If someone is "SCHOLAR", I guess s/he should have atleast one publication in an international peer reviewed journal. I personally consider a person is a real "outstanding" researcher if s/he published atleast one full length paper in an international journal paper, but, I consider him more a "GHAPHASTAC TAPTIPE" researcher who publishes 100s of papers in international conferences, symposiums and workshops, but, has no single journal paper. Here, I again want to classify "journal", I am referring to the top 5 journals in your field. Lets say, the top 5 usually have monthly issues (usually), and 10papers in each issue. Thus, they altogether publish about 500 full length papers every year (lets include the special issues too). So, there are below top 5 journals, and publishing a paper in those below top 5 will not be very diffucult, but, in those top will be extremely difficult, thus, to put your research paper in top 500papers in that particular year in your particular field. ...... If don't publish a single paper in 20years of "scholary" life i.e. 500*20 = 10000 papers, then, we can estimate where you are in your field. ............... (This is just a gross data). So, woman is not a perfect woman if she has not delivered a baby and a man is not perfect man if he has not married and has a kid, similarly, a person is not "grown up researcher" if s/he does not a full length paper published in one of the top 5 (in his field) journal papers.
Well, why top 5? Top 5 journals usually have unique specialities: lets see in my field:
1. Number 1: Usually contains very real and unique project oriented case studies. Less pure research oriented. (e.g. Macro stuffs......... They talk big things. e.g. big biz. house with research labs ..........)
2. Number 2: Purely on model and its verification via experimental works. (micro stuffs. They have graduate students)
3. Number 3: Publication of field observed data. (scaling problems between micro and macro..........)
4. Number 4: Purely Numerical: to see everything in computer simulations. Developers of "XBOX" GAME in that particular field. (Peoples without research funds, usually play with XBOX, that they don't need Lab or Field testings). usually, poor professors: origiin from developing or semi developed countries, especially, migrated Indians and Chinese in USA (who don't have or could not establish any link with peoples in industries).
5. Number 5: Mix of all these 4. Thats why its Number 5. (those who don't have strong base on Number 1-4, love this journa).
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| Poonte |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 06:04 PM
Dhannae ho pravu!!!!!!!!!
Yo achakali ko khaderi ma aja kata bata pani pardeu?!?
Bhagwan shree Indra (aka Yatree) ki, jai!!!!!!
|
| Yatree |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 06:37 PM
Poonte,
Mero Jaya manayeko maa mero aashirbad : Timi Chaandai Thulo bhayes!
- (just couldn't resist. :-]
[Now, wait until I get slammed. Yahan yestai hunchha.]
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 06:42 PM
Timi Chaandai Thulo bhayes!
Yo kasto Nepali ni! "TIMI" and "BHAYES". Human right hanan ko issue uthaunu parla jasto cchha hai. Correct garnu la, ASAP.
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| Yatree |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 06:47 PM
No, gurujee, no human rights ko threat for me. Haamee "peoples" ko Nepali yestai ho. :)
"Poonte" laii "Thulo bhyes" bhaneko nee! Aafnai bhayera po bhaneko.
Peace!
|
| U_2 |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 07:04 PM
Just for info. here is one paper published in an international journal, Future, written jointly by DG with A. Dixit.
Dipak Gyawali a,*, Ajaya Dixit 1,b (2001). "Water and science: hydrological uncertainties,developmental aspirations and uningrained scientific culture." Futures 33 (2001) 689–708
a Royal Academy of Science and Technology, PO Box 3323, Kathmandu, Nepal
b Nepal Water Conservation Foundation, PO Box 2221, Kathmandu, Nepal
www.elsevier.com/locate/futures
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 07:11 PM
WY,
Let's get hold of ourselves, shall we?
Dipak Gyawali is NOT exactly up for tenure for an endowed chair at MIT or Harvard
for us to be questioning and evaluating whether he has a series of peer-reviewed articles to begin with. He has now become a politican, for God's sake.
OK, before you misinterpret that sentence above, let me make this clear.
Sure, you have every right to be curious about DG's intellectual output, and I have referred you to appropriate magazines and journals. If those the stuff printed there
do not count for you to hail DG as a scholar, well, fine.
Who's been saying that DG is a scholar?
Go back and read all my postings, and show me where I have referred to Gyawali
as a scholar. At best, I have said that I remain impressed with his varied intellectual interests and have even called him a polymath -- statements which are DIFFERENT
from calling him a scholar and hailing him as a genius as such.
Don't get carried away and start putting words in my mouth to make your points.
And, on a larger note, maybe because he's not a scholar as such, DG is NOT a
tenured professor at Berkeley or Harvard but remains a Nepali
"intellect-entrepreneur" -- someone who sells his intellect to write/to learn
about water-related policy stuff.
And, you know what, whether you like him or not, among the crowd that does that in Nepal, his appears to be the loudest voice and the also the most sensible when it
comes to water-related issues.
And because he has been writing about and dealing with water-related policies for more than 20 years, maybe he will just do - ad this is my hope -- a few right things about how Nepal should manage its water resources.
Is this too much to ask?
That is why, I am WILLING to put politics aside (and I have given a short account of
why I've REALISTICALLY come back to re-examining the King's role in Nepal, without necessarily approving of it -- something that is very hard for you guys living in America --dealing only with black-and-white scenarious and NEVER with ambiguities --
to understand and accept) . . . and am most eager to see how DG translates, within the confining mandate that he's been given, his ideas into actions and then SUCCEEDS at the Water Resources Ministry.
Why can't you accept this?
Sure, yes, on a larger note, I did and do demand a lot from Nepali PhD-wallahs, ESPECIALLY and ESPECIALLY when they set themselves up as scholars and
NOT as mere jaagirays at the UN, the UNDP, the IMF, the World Bank and so
on. This is the distinction I want you to keep in mind before you collapse
several strands of my distinct arguments into an irrelevant one.
I do NOT demand per-reviewed articles from every Nepali PhD-wallahs, but ONLY
from those whose primary self-image is that of a scholar.
So, where's the talk of my being inconsistent?
Finally, I continue to wish DG my very best and am rooting for his success.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| protean |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 07:54 PM
All,
There are two conflicitng issues at hand:
1. It is that DG mentioned that he refused to accept the PHD offer at Berkeley owing to the opportunity costs of continuing with it while he could alternatively return to Nepal and utilize his expertise in the field.
2. That DG gives the "liberal intellectual" portrayal of himself in his opinions and papers that have been published. During the Arun debate, he was the anti corporation, but for the people and for the environment when he proposed that for looking into smaller scale projects. To strive for reforms is great. How active was he in getting any small scale projects into Nepal after the Arun Debacle is something that I've not delved into, but perhaps we could bring to this forum. He talks of the politics of inclusion and the support for democratic values. Subsequently, he decided to work with the primeminister that was proven to have been ineffective (who the citizens didn't elect) and a King, who decided to usurp power and decided to dismiss a democratically elected government,thereby nullifying the democratic virtues existent in the country.
By evaluating these issues in 2, we can ponder if Dipak Gyawali is going for his own personal reasons, or is he really the liberal he has purported he is?
Both 1) and 2) are important answers that the public should be aware of. As it has often been the case that the leaders of the past are villified and blamed, and their image tarnished, the new system and its operators try to get by with these psuedo intellectual and desh bikash rhetorics and claims of their intellegence and acumen.
If we find the truth to 1 and realize that DG was not truthful about the PHD program in Berkeley , then we've a person whose credibility is in line.
As far 2 is concerend,if he talks of extoling democratic and liberal values, then we've a person who goes into a system where one person is deciding for a country and chossing his own team.
There are some here in Sajha who've been writing about democracy in Nepal in this platform have done so to voice their opinion about the King's move,which is their right to do so, and they've been coined a label. DG also talked about the liberal values and democratic virtues. Can we also give him that label? Most ironically, he has now decided to work under the stewardship of someone who decided to dispel a demcratically elected government. What do we call him? A true democrat or Not?
At this juncture ,do we beleive and trust that DG is a true liberal democrat, or do we call him an opportunist? That is a debate that the public can engage in and they should.
Challenging the intellectuals and their real claims should be something we should be entitled to, and Ashu himself had written about this in his Shreesha Karki postings about the reactions from these "intellectuals" such a move brings about in Nepal.
Having said that, I think that Mr. Gyawali is an expert in the water resources field and has been a critical thinker. I find some of his writings interesting.
However, there is a lot at stake when one has to balance between critical thinking, managing, making strategies,and implementing processes and reforms, and executing orders. Now that he has taken this position, I hope Mr. Gwaywali will be able to be successful in his appointment and utilize his talents.
Now, he is a public official, I think, it would be very important that we should strive to know both the answers to 1) and 2) above.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 08:21 PM
Protean, along your point no. 1 -- an assertion attributed to a public figure was made publicly. It is now also clear that remark was lifted from a private conversation. Regardless, once such a claim has entered a public domain, the veracity of that assertion can be questioned by anyone. I think the debate can end if straight answers are given, and if some people stop taking Sajha for a ride.
The credibility and integrity of a public person who is said to command some respect and has been touted as untainted in Nepal is in line. That is why this issue is important. This is NOT about making teel lai pahaad.
Acting as though he is above questioning here, Ashu has tried to repeatedly *fudge* and *downplay* the episode. This, all the more, leads me to believe that either Dipak Gyawali or his bhai, Ashutosh, is lying about an assertion attributed publicly to Gyawali. *Ideally* one of them would either, i) say, sorry, I goofed this time, or ii) tell us what the truth is. Why is this so hard? There is no need for unnecessary novellas and diversion tactics.
As an aside, it is a rather sorry sight to see Ashu making a juvenile cry along the lines of, “oh, you are just trying to take revenge”. Frankly, I seem to have over-estimated his emotional maturity. Look, if you can’t handle this simple enquiry with grace, what kind of “honest” public debate do you keep repeating here that you say you are trying to promote? Next time you ask me some deserved questions over claims I make here publicly, do I then say, oh, you are also trying to take revenge for that other episode? Let's grow up, shall we?
----
I have not yet received a response from Minister Gyawali on this topic. I used his publicly available e-mail address. If I don't hear from him, I hope to meet him in Nepal and ask him this question in a week or two. I want to clear my doubts on whether a person whose works I have read with respect is also a liar -- more important to ascertain now that he is also a public figure.
|
| gorkheni |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 08:32 PM
Biswo ji and Ashu ji,
Kina yasto jhagada? Tapai haru ta yo desh ko naya generation madhya top students haru hoina ra, including Pashim and aru sabai thula thula college ma adhyan gareka nepali haru.
Tapai haru ta hami jasta kehi na kehi ka keti ra keta haru ko mukh bata ayeko kura lai dhyan dina hunna. Taipani haso utcha kina bhane yesta sana sana kura liyera tapai haru kasto emotional hunu hunhca. Ke bhanu, afno ta visa pani expired, 8-10 hajar dollar debt ma, america ayera college padula bhaneko ta paisa nai pugena. Ke garne yasto tal cha, ya yasto po chinta cha. nepal gayo bhane , jabarjasti budo sanga bihe garaidinchan. America basyo bhane, survival nai garna garo cha. Yo gana gaune aru dherai nepali haru chan. Tara tapai haru Harvard , MIT, MA, PHD garne manche haru lai yo bare ma thaha chaina hola. Tapai haru in between the lines padnuhuncha , hami haru bill ko line bharna koshish garchau.
Galti kasaiko chaina , tara mannu parcha, tapai haru ko bhagya chahi ekdamai chamke ko cha!! Sabai padaiya nepali haru milnus, desh bikas garnus, ani hami lai farkana incentive dinu paryo. Akhir, 20 years ma Nepal ko manti mandal , Hahoo guru, Biswo, Ashu, Paramendra , Biswo Sitara etc hunu paryo. And of course teti bela Gyawali can be a senio advidor, hoina ra ?
Narisaunus hai. Angresi khattam cha mero, nepali ma type garna audaina!!
|
| wy |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 09:06 PM
Ashu,
Ashu wrote:
"but remains a Nepali intellect-entrepreneur" -- someone who sells his intellect to write/to learn about water-related policy stuff."
" remain impressed with his varied intellectual interests and have even called him a polymath -- statements which are DIFFERENT from calling him a scholar and hailing him as a genius as such"
" because he has been writing about and dealing with water-related policies "
Ok, so DG is an intellectual entreprenuer with varied intellectual interests. No problem here, Ashu. I can settle with this.
Intellectual entreprenuer? hmmmm...I need to ponder about it.
Peace!!
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 09:27 PM
U_2 : thanks for informing us the publication list. I salute Deepak Gyawali now for the journal paper that he published while working Nepal. You can find very rear such peoples in Nepal (who stay in Nepal and publish paper in international journals). Most of the univ. prof./teachers (in TU or KU) in my private conversation, say, kina chahiyo tyo journal paper? Because you publish in journal or in conference or 4 paged paper in some local .... (even newspaper) it weighs same. I met one univ. teacher in Nepal, who told me that he even did not declare his all publications in his job interview in Nepal, because he won't get score for all his publications, so, he said (he told to me that he was told by his employer) that he kept those undeclared papers for future promotion.(great joke indeed. You can use your publications ,that were published long time before joining the current job, in promotions turn by turn and get promotion? I was surprised the promotions in Nepal are like Universal studio or Disney Land, where you take enough money in your pocket, buy a minimum ticket at entry and buy only the tickets for amusement that looks interesting. I lost the meaning of promotion: ??????? help me). This is the trend in our coutry. ........
Well, sometime back, I had chance to look at some south asian universities candidates for promotion to Professor from Reader, I was surprised to find their procedures. They send the CVs and publication lists to outside (outside country) for peer review and scoring, out of list of candidates who deserves the best. The journal papers and conferences paper, reports, to the job done as hostel warden, too do get equal share, but, the score given to journal paper of international standard does not line up with any other achievements. ................ So, publication of journal paper from Nepal should qualify someone to be named as "SCHOLAR", whether you like my idea or not, but, I have my own criteria, and Dipak Gyawali deserves hat-off salute.
HG
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 09:46 PM
Regarding "refused of receiving Ph.D. degree" issue, even if DG lied publicly, what should be our final destination, should be as mentioned in Bill Clinton's case.
Punishment should also fit the Crime. Punishment should not be bigger than the level of crime and the damage caused to public by such crimes. In Japan, peoples say if you make a mistake, you get multiple times punishment. Court orders some punishment, i.e. universal rule. But, the employer also gives punishment on the crime that employer has no relation. "Matsuzaka", the pitcher in S., drove his girl fiends car for about 50m, and did not have driving license, striked the car on parapet wall (no one was hurt), only car was slightly hurt. Then, police came. His friend did not lie, she spoke all the truth, which she could have kept and that car could have been repaired from Matsuzaka's one lucky ball. But, Matsuzaka was taken to police custody. .... Was fined 200,000yen. the case did not rest here. The employer punished him for the crime that he already got punishment, by fining him 6 month's salary, and suspended his job for 6 month or 1year (forgot).......... His advertising agents pulled the plugs, asked for damage ..........
............. This is the trend in Japan. So, anyone who makes a mistake, will be punished several times of the crime, you deserved. This is our Asian style. It happens because many criminals escape even without appearing at court for the bigger crimes they did. So, when a fish is caught, public officials and all directly or indirectly related to his crime, will start punishing him multiple times, forgetting that punishment is the job of court. Court's punishment hardly counts, compared to the total punishment a criminal gets. So, criminals also try to hide any level of crime or mistake they commit. ...... Its a social problem.
Well, while going through some website for some other item,I saw the frist quote
"the highest result of education is TOLERANCE". So, un-educated societies have least tolerance when a crime is committed by "sano tino MRIGA or oralo lageko Mriga", and the tolerance is very high when its committed by "HYENA".
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
"the highest result of education is TOLERANCE". --Anon.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:05 PM
Oh ok. Thanks Biswo. [sorry about the delayed response]
and Hahooguru, I think there is a little ammendment to my yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawning thing. It goes like this:
First it was : oh ok.
Then: What???
After that: I cannot believe it.
Then again: Oh!
Then it became: Jesus freaking Christ, I cannot believe this is happening.
And: Pachim, My dear! you Too??
Then it was: Shut the ___up!
At the end: Whatever!
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:13 PM
the end is yet to come..
end: where's my khukuri?
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:23 PM
Paschim,
I wrote the phrase "my intuition tells me" so that I actually STOPPED short of accusing you of trying to revenge yourself upon me.
Go back and read my posting and be fair to the issue, can you?
Now that you have jumped up and down and have said that you are NOT trying to revenge yourself upon me, I am happy to say that, hell, my intuition was wrong at NO expense to you. :-)
On a larger note, I wish you had cared as much for Chiranjivi Wagle's integrity this DIRECTLY when that Wagle was the freaking minister.
Enough said.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:25 PM
Paschim,
I wrote the phrase "my intuition tells me" so that I actually STOPPED short of accusing you of trying to revenge yourself upon me.
Go back and read my posting and be fair to the issue, can you?
Now that you have jumped up and down and have said that you are NOT trying to revenge yourself upon me, I am happy to say that, hell, my intuition was wrong at NO expense to you. :-)
On a larger note, I wish you had cared as much for Chiranjivi Wagle's integrity this DIRECTLY when that Wagle was the freaking minister.
Enough said.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| sangam |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 10:31 PM
Low blows!!! one after another.
Keep it up 'Bidhawaans'.
|
| Garibjanata |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:06 PM
GUYS,Please stop this pretentious nattering and mud -slinging.Why are you all wasting your precious time writing( Both sides: one side exaggerating,hyperboling about his tiny-winy accomplishment;the otherside him criticizing and dissecting him into smithereens ) about this undistinguished person?
|
| jame bonds |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:30 PM
When someone says "refused to complete a PhD", what does that mean?
If he refused it, he must have been offerred the opportunity.
If he was offered the chance, he must have applied for it - since you can't get admission to a PhD without applying for it.
So my question is: did he apply for it; got admission; and refused it?
or, did he say "no I don't think I want to complete a PhD" when some professor asked him if he wanted to go on for a PhD degree".
My professor once asked me if I wanted to become the President of the United States and I said "No I don't want to."
Next time I give an interview to a Nepali buddhijiwi I should include the following statement: "I refused to become the President of the United States!"
My 3.1415926... cents
|
| gorkheni |
Posted
on 20-Nov-02 11:42 PM
maybe:
Ashu was jealous that Paschim and Arnico did that job in Nepal (plannign commision). He therefore went about by thrashing the job they did on the thread. of course didnt say i am jealous directly.
Biswo and Paschim are living in USA, and therefore jealous that Ashu is well connected in Nepal, and a popular guy with 3250 frens. Amrika ma 50 friend banauna ta garo, if we all went bakc to Nepal, even we would have at least 200/300 contact, hoina ta?
Maybe Ashu feels that who are they to come from USA and wirte a paper about nepal ko bikas for South Africa hoina? kam na kaj ko, akhir Deuba didnt go.
Biswo ra Paschim ko view pani i unterstnd that ashu thinks that he is Mr. I am always right. So called debater, cannot even think of the possibility of losing an argument for once in his life. Ulto 5/7 barsha adadi ko kura le po attack garcha baaaaa.!!
Biswo ra Paschim , nepal needs you and you will make more and more contribution as time rolls by , i am sure of that . amrika basera karauna matra milcha, nothing else. later on in life, i am sure you can give alot to nepal.
Ashu , one day you will fall in love, and then know that you are gonna have to make sacrifices, and may have to lose as well face it or at least be prepared. you cannot be always right. harvard graduates also make mistakes, ki kaso? look at nash , pura pagal ra disillussioned bha hoina? try to be less defensive, specially if youre not guilty.
Ke garne. Anywyas, you guys all are smart, and Nepal needs more smart people like you all.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 12:18 AM
U_2ji,
Thanks for the link to the article. I hope he has some more 'peer reviewed' articles. I don't want to comment about the article or journal since I am not a 'polymath' but I must say I have a feeling, after looking at the editorial board, about the level of the journal.
Sometimes I think khai ta raajaakaa maanchhe? Are these the people depending upon whom the king is planning to take the country towards the right direction? Just found out a new leader to have tete-a-tete with the anti-corruption obsessed king is , guess who, Bijay Gachhchhedar. Nothing wrong with this , of course.
---
NK,
Appreciate your comment. Shut the _ up nabhanidinubhaye I will be even more thankful. This sajha is very likely to remain the only forum where we can shout loudly if the king is going to pursue his current course.
--
IFji,
Khukuri's time was before 2046. Then, if you didn't like dissenters, you could use Khukuri with impunity. I know your obsession with king's dictatorship, and it seems you definitely miss the good old days when dissenters were shown khukuri.
Of course, looks like the time when dissenters were shown 'khukuri' is gonna come soon. Keep your fingers crossed.
--
Sangam, Garibjanata, Gorkheni and Jamesbond,
Appreciate your point of view.Please remember that hot discussions are integral part of sajha. I want it to be 'no spin zone':-)
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 12:42 AM
Biswo ji,
it is my time to defend IF ji "khukuri", I am sure he is talking about "khukuri rum". when you are tired, then, comes "khukuri rum"........ Don't say its beofre 2046, Khukuri rum is still famous and it comes repeatedly. Canada ma ta ke ke prize pako bhanthe, yahi rum le hoina ra bhanya? Tyasaile, 2046 agadi tyo lagne khukuri authyo, aba khukuri rum chai kukhuri ko masu sanga aauchha.
Jai kukhuri and khukuri.
HG
|
| Chasma |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 01:30 AM
Finally winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnner is:
1 2222 333333333333333333333333333333333
BISWO......
Ashu couldnot give answer of Biswo. Sorry,Ashu you are runner up. Accept this reality.
Biswo is king of Sajhapur.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 01:37 AM
When do you know that Ashu is going lose the competition?
Answer: When he uses "Look Mr. XYZ....".
Why "Look Mr. XYZ ..." is sign of Lose?
Peoples say in debate, the person who get angry first will lose the competition in the debate. A person who does not have arguments to win, all drained out, will start getting angry, that is the last trick left to pose as a winner.
Well, my suggestion will be to silently switch to new thread, if you are sure you are not going to win the competition. Well, its idea stolen from "SITARA": it good to tighten your lips some time (its not her exact words, its skeleton is same as what she recommended me. I went to Himal for 1.5months silence DHYAN. Sitara ji, arigato.
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 02:53 AM
Biswo: I am already starrted butying khukuris.. you never know when you need those..k garne, that's the only weapon you can possess legally in nepal.. and you never know when your congressi and communist gundas come after you.. so, its always better to stay prepared..:-)
hahhoo guruji,
khukuri bhannale maile bhanna khojeko khukuri nai ho. kukhuri katne khukuri ra kateko kukhuri lai kapa-kap khana khukuri rum... hijo raati matra khukuri rum khako..yetso majja aako k bhanne.. sabadai chaina..
guruji, aaja mero day off bnhayeko le yeso sajha pur mai ghumdai basira.. ajha manab adhikar manch ko sambidhan banauna yaha ko sallah ra sujhab chahiyo.. maile jaal-jhel garera sampurna karyakarini adhikar guruji ma nihit gareko chu.. kina bhane.. one person has to make decisions and shold have the final words on issues.. hoina ta.. nabhaye nepal ko jasto jhoor sambidhaan bancha..
la guruji.. tapai sake khanus.. (tyo "male " ra "mountain" charachetr brand sake khanus".
ma chahi newari yela khojna janchu..
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 03:00 AM
ok: from getting to yes.. jhagada banda garne upaya:
1. biswo, ashu, wy and everyone involved: write down what you disagree on in points. no explanation just points.
2. then post it here
3. then take out the irrelevant points
4. discuss the relevant points
5. negotiate without giving up
6. finally, get to yes.. or agree to disagree and set date(s) for future talks
but before all this:
set protocol : say, you won't bring out the issues that aren't relevant to the discussion
you won't resort to personal attacks
you won't make deregatory remarks about each other
Then go to step 1.
remember, debates are part of life.. so are the compromises..
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 03:41 AM
Ashutosh, answer the question. Don't fudge and divert the topic yet again.
----
On my part, I will answer you, as I have answered questions of this type in the most candid, honest, graceful, patient, truthful, and serious manner, which is as follows:
I have cared directly about Minister's Wagle's integrity at two levels over the last decade: personal and as a citizen. I cared about his integrity when he was freaking minister EIGHT YEARS AGO, not only now, and took a decision THEN as a very young person in response that I judged was going to be most effective from a personal end. That was one of the strongest personal decisions of my life -- one that has entailed huge social costs and required immense courage. Now, if you are a bit sensitive and have some decency, and as someone who knows me, you would respect that *personal* decision, or at least seek not to ridicule it when under temporary fire. But I KNOW you and never expected anything better from you. But, for your own good, be honest with yourself, as we have been through all this in the thread "On Sleaze, Vice and Corruption". [p.s. in the interest of public openness, San, can you provide a link of that thread pls., so that readers on Sajha can review it -- I couldn't find it in the archives]
Second, as a citizen, I have supported fully the recent CIAA's drive against corruption including recent actions against my former MP from Gorkha-1, Chiranjivi Wagle. As we speak, I am glad that the laws of our land are taking their due course in investigations against him and others. I now hope the CIAA drive expands to investigate all senior bureaucrats and politicians who thrived in the Panchayat kaal to now, and that this drive does not end up being just an ad-hoc-ish gimmick of the King and his "illegitimate" cabinet headed by a public loan defaulter (PM), an attempted rapist (DPM) and some other opportunists (who I hope are also not liars).
I also recognize and laud the last democratically elected parliament that passed bills to strengthen the CIAA now enabling it to take the kind of actions against that very parliament's former members.
Enough said.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 03:57 AM
In the seventh line of the second last paragraph above, please replace the word *of* with *for*.
The word *of* implies that the executive has some control over CIAA. It does not; CIAA is a Constitutional entity, free from executive pressures.
But the word *for* touches on the socio-political reality where actions of one organ of the state may benefit others (ccainet and teh Palace in this case) often for the national good, but sometimes perversely. I thus meant to use the word *for*.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 05:00 AM
Paschim,
Wagle is in jail right now -- and NO thanks to you, my friend.
That's the reality.
You can dress up your incredibly personal opposition to Wagle in any way you want, and that's fine, but, you know what, your kind of passive opposition was a cop-out,
and can never be used to throw corrupt people into jail in Nepal.
Ever.
You avoided Wagle by your own choice; you did not want to get your hands dirty, so to speak, and by wanting to keep yourself purer-than-thou, and, now, on sajha, you seem to want chocolates for doing just that.
Was Wagle harmed by your action?
No.
So?
Why don't you admit that even though you hated that guy, there was NOTHING much for you to do, except distance yourself from him, and mind your own business and wish that he would be caught one day?
That sort of admission would make you appear to be more honest than the one who's trying to put a quick one over others' eyes.
Finally, for someone who seems unwilling to let go of Dipak Gyawali's relatively minor and hard-to-verify claim about that Berkeley PhD program -- a claim I reported here as EXACTLY as I understood and heard it -- it's pretty ironic isn't it to be caught like this?
I like the fact that you yourself have taken it upon yourself the burden to
a) Email Dipak Gywali
b) and, are on record, that if DG doesn't respond, then you'll ask him in Kathmandu.
Either way, look, since you have put yourself on this fact-finding mission at your own expense, I can confidently say that: Unless you have some sort of concrete answer from Dipak Gyawali, you have no right -- understand NO right -- to judge me or Dipak
G in any way to suit your nattering suspicions.
You are supposed to be some sort of a consultant for some UN agency.
Tell me: Is this how you give your recommendations to your clients . . . announce that you are on a fact-finding mission first, and then give the judgement BEFORE the facts are in?
Give me a break.
oohi
"having a good day"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 05:29 AM
Finally,
This kura-kani is NOT about winning or losing.
Good, solid discussions are well worth doing because they are VITAL to democracy -- either on sajha or in the real world.
It is in that spirit that I have taken part in this kura-kani here.
No hard feelings to anyone, hai.
That said:
What I wrote about DG's "refusal" was BASED on what he told me in a conversation once. Since I was not carrying a tape-recorder at the time (not that I carry one, anyway!), I was relying upon my memory to truthfully report what I heard and understood then.
Truth be told, at the time, I was actually more amused than impressed when DG said that to me, and was willing to brush that claim aside as something not worth getting worked up about.
If some people on sajha want to make mountain out of a molehill, they are welcome
to do so -- at their own expense.
I know that they are trying very hard to lump the charges of "lying" to me, as though I committed a serious crime, but you know what, why the hell would I lie FOR and ABOUT DG anywhere? Think about it.
Finally, though I do not share all his views and though I do not know why he accepted the King's offer, DG remains -- as far as I am concerned -- one good hope for the betterment of Nepal's water resources, and if DG does something to live up to his promise, I, for one, would be more than happy.
If he doesn't, well, then, I would have no hesitation to NOT take his criticisms seriously later on.
Meantime, I continue to root for DG's success.
oohi
"still having a good day"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 06:18 AM
ashu:
7 out of 10 on conflict management!!
Prof. Freak
School of Advance Freaky Analysis and Jhagada Studies (SAFAJS)
|
| jhilke kyailan |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 06:29 AM
Ashuji, thank you for your answer. I think I am more appreciative of your position now...although I probably would not have extened my best wishes to DG on a public forum...mais c est psa grave...chaque un son truc....
Sparshaji, I was not implying that past corruption of the panches granted a license to the "democrats" (once again I use this word for a lack of a better one) to be corrupt themselves. My point merely being the situation today is a culmulation (???) of the past 200 years and not just the past 12....... and, I didn't mean BP or Bhandari, but other grass roots level people (comtempories of the senior politicians today) who were making significant arguments against the absolute rule and were thus,murdered by the panchayat regime in their heydey..... These were the people who would have been leaders today had they not been eliminated.....and lasty, my arguments for a democratic system stems not from the like of the present batch of politicians (in fact I detest them) but more from the dislike of concentration of power, whether in one man (the king) or one group (his supporters) and especially that without accountability. King G may be a good man, a capable man etc....but let us not forget HE IS A MAN (although we have been told he is Vishnu).....Have you not heard of the saying
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Like any man too much power will corrupt him, unless ofcourse you do believe he is the "Vishnu avataar"...
|
| Arnico |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 08:25 AM
yawn!
yaaaaawn!
Gorkheni... your first message got lost in the noise here... you may want to repost it in a new thread. Do share your problems... hopefully Sajhapur can build into a community that helps out its members in need.
|
| Paschim |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 08:43 AM
Paryo bhane arko installment thokchhu bhanera aako ta kuro selayeko jasto chha -- la thik chha…rish utheni, bhannu parne kura dherai bhaye ni aaja nabhanam. Ahile lai yetti.
Where’s Jira when I need his mood-changing quips?
Anyway, here’s a toast to Sajha’s diverse pool of talents and their collective aptitude to provoke, celebrate, and amuse.
Paschim ---- just back from a fantastic first date with Akira-Shubert-the-CNN Correspondent-in-Indonesia-look-alike who laughed gorgeously when I taught her to pronounce the Nepali ukhan “joon goru ko singh chhaina usko naam teekhe”; am a little drunk from overdrinking bourbon; she asked me out, but blushed when I asked her age; I know I will regret tomorrow for having posted what I am writing now; but am about to go to bed, and you know what, I couldn’t care less” :)
|
| Arnico |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 08:51 AM
Paschim, drink less, and go on more dates!
:)
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:07 AM
"she blushed when I asked her age;"
I did too :)!!
Paschim caught offguard
Paschim caught drunk
Paschim caught flirting
All for the sake of fun!
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:10 AM
"Barha barsa ramayan padhayo sita kaski joi" jasto huni ho ki..but my question is why are we after DG?
The way we are after DG reminds me of ritik roshan kanda. some of us rediculed those of us who went out and protested what ritik roshan allegedly said. It seems to me that same sort of thing is going on here. Nobody has heard what DG said regarding Ph.D. issue. It's Ashu who brought that point not DG. We should have directed our questions and dissatisfaction towards Ashu not DG. I personally appreciate Paschim's stand on this. He wrote an email to DG. He wanted to know where the fact stands. Bunch of us running behind a rumour (yes, rumour...how do we know what Ashu heard is what DG is said?). Questioning ashu is fine but thrashing DG without knowing the fact is simply WRONG.
If I say, "malai hahoo guru le bhanya waha lai Harvard le PH. D. garna bolako thyo rey waha le reject gardinu bho rey", then should you guys start attacking hahoo guru and waste no time in tearing his integrity and whatever reputaion he has away? Come on. I hope Paschim will post what he heard from DG on this Ph. D. Stuff. Let's reserve our comments until then, shall we?
JK ji, your point is noted. I never thought King was bishnuko avatar and never will. Peace is what we need right now more than anything else in our nation. this is not the time to fight on party lines. We need consenus. No one, yeah not even naranhiti, can stand against the will of united nepali. But we have to show that solidarity first. I am not against every soul linked with kangress, UML and other parties. There are good people (who truly put nation first) within those parties but the leadership in each party is disgustingly narrow minded and selfish. Now, RPP and NSP are complaining that their people did not get positions in recent cabinet expansion. What is more important to them? This just irritates me.
|
| jira |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:21 AM
Auni ke bhayecha ta DG lai ?
PHD garekkai ho rey ta ki offer matrrai khayeko? PHD nai garya hunu parney ho mero beechaar ma ta. Someone please clarify me. Oh! Mercy....
|
| deep |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:36 AM
Jiradai,
DG lai Barkli le aau dai garam pi eh di bhanya rey tara ke surma ho DG le "jh*t pani gardaina pi eh di si eh di" bhanya rey...malai mungling ma sapana restaurant and lodge ko "yaha khana ra basneko ramro prabandha chha" lekhya signboard muni chya khada bhanya DG le...tyastai bhanya jasto lagchha....motor ra haran ko ghau ghui ni thyo hun ta...
sachhi tyo khane ra basne ko ramro prabandaha chha bhanne signboard ko barema ni ke jira dai...kasto mu** khattam lodge ta yaar tyo....sutne chahi chhaina? khane ra basne rey....ke bhaat khaisake si raat bhari basi mattai rani ta? euta kuro ni....
ani tha chha....jira dai...dhumbadai lai MIT le "aau babu ek choti p h d garera jau bhanya rey...chilim ko sura ma dhumba dai le "reject" gardya rey.....haina?"
khai ke ke...
|
| jira |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:49 AM
Phd ko kura garda mero ewuta dukha ko kahani samjhey..jhatta bhanna man lagya thiena tara kuro ma kuro chalya huna ley batai halya ni....
Malai tyo Standford ko naam bhanna namilney department chair lay 2 maina jati agadi " hera jira, dherrai sajha ma nabaraliwu...yaha kyai chaina..khali jhagda matrai ho tatto na charo ma... chainey kuro garney haina...baicharik swatantrata cha bhandai ma jatha bhabee phalakchan...Timi jasto yasto hoanhaar manchay lay yaha lagnu hunna. Heena jaam, ma grant sant meelamla, sangai basawun, Ma sikawunchu timi PHD gara bhanyo rati sutni belama phone garera. Mailey bhaney, " Offer ko lagi dhanneybaad, tara hya PHD garna thalyo bhaney bholi malai Nepal bata mantri khana bolawuna saukcha, jana mildaina..pheri tapai lai apthyaro parcha" ..bhanera bhandii. Ahiley yata ni chaina woota ni chaina...Aulpatra bidesh ma...
|
| deep |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 10:09 AM
Jira dai, thyakkai la...ma lai ni thyahi bhanya thyo la....khali farak ke parechha bhane malai chahi tyo standford ko euta departmentko bhitra rakhya chairma basne le phone garya thyo sutne belama jiradai lai chahi tyahi department ko baira rakhya chair ma basne (hamro nepalma ni baschhan ni tyo department sipartment baira chairma....chya sya launa parchha...machhe bolauna parchha...ke ke parchha ke ke ni..haina jira dai..) le fon garechha nunu garne bela ma. Jiradai le ramro garya ho nagara...tyasto baira chair ma basne le bolayore bhandaima yassai koi janchha ki kyaho sajha chhodera? haina bhanya jiradai....
la aba yaha ka dhurandhar harule mero dhandeso fuskaunu bhanda agadi nai ma chai suikuchcha thoknu paryo.
Sambho! aaudai chhu...ekkai chhin....la masitarne....khai chilim kata paryo feri yehi belama...
|
| jira |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 10:19 AM
Auni tyo DG lai chai kalley phone garyo hola hagi tyaso bhaye? offer nai decline garnu parney gari.. sanchhai kalley garyo hola hagi?
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 10:20 AM
Sparsha wrote:
"Questioning ashu is fine but thrashing DG without knowing the fact is simply WRONG."
Yes.
Agreed.
And I, for one, have always WELCOMED questions.
When I was asked whether I misrepresented DG's throw-away remark on sajha,
my answer was: "[Since I was not carrying a tape-recorder at the time], this is what
I honestly remembered to the best of my memory."
I take FULL responsbilities for my postings and stand behind them in my own name, without SECOND-guessing DG's remark.
What I find interesting is that some people are not only thrashing DG for reasons best known for themselves but are also attacking me for being some kind of his "chamcha", as it were, even when I have taken pains, right from the beginning, to explain that I do not share all of his views and am only congratulating DG in the hope that he will turn out or be a good Minister. That was all.
You know, what's more, I have even been ridiculed for calling DG, who's more than 20 years my senior -- Dipak Dai!!
Haray shiva!!
********
Sparsha wrote:
"I hope Paschim will post what he heard from DG on this Ph. D. Stuff. Let's reserve our comments until then, shall we?"
Siince Paschim has taken this grave responsbility to resolve this matter of utmost national importance, yes, let us patiently await for him to discharge it well.
Amen!!
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| jira |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 10:34 AM
" jira dai**..) le fon garechha nunu garne bela ma. Jiradai** le ramro garya ho nagara...tyasto baira chair ma basne le bolayore bhandaima yassai koi janchha ki kyaho sajha chhodera? haina bhanya jiradai**.... "
Chya ..aphu bhanda thulo manchey lay dai ka dai lako kasto nasuhako....
|
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 11:06 AM
Ye Jira !! khoi yeta ta kura selayo jasto cha ...ko aaune ho uta kushti khelna ...Jira nai aau la ..maile hanuman kattu pani kinera rakheko chu..ani tyo MERO kheta Hilo pani tannai cha ...la aau
|
| jira |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 11:18 AM
woota jana maneynun ketaharulay, apthyro cha rey, motor jandaina rey, hya dhokkai agadi bus awuncha rey...yattai bheed badhi sakyo pheri. tyo jagga timi nai kamawu. 2 maina pachi timrai naam ma pass gardeemla. hapey mailey tya, bheed jamma garna sakina banjho khate ma
|
| DHUMBASSE (DUMBASS) |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 11:31 AM
JIra !! tyo pashupatiko dhoka ko CHiya pashal thah cha !! hehe..:)
tyo chiya khandai shanibara sahnibara side hanne chiya pasal ke ta , pettima basera...hahaha ..
tyo side ko picture hera ta ..dekhindo rahech tyo seto ghar pani, chiya pasal bhako..madse le yetro thulo bahdnama chiya pakauthyo..ani dandule glassma chiya halthyo..
Shnaibara ketahruko bhid..yek jhyappa teha bhajan mandalima bhaajan ga jasto garera tane pachi ani bistarai bhitrai dekhin side handai thakera bahira aayera tyo petima basera chiya dindai side hanya thaha cha..
jira lai ke thaha tyesto kura..
Jira majale ghar basera padhi ra hunthyo...re kya ajha lastma ..hehe :)
|
| NK |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 12:06 PM
Shiva shiva, Biswo, Those comments were not directed *only* to you. It was my reaction - in 'sar sanchep'- after reading this thread.
|
| jira |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 12:10 PM
Seto pasal bhanda yaad ayo ewuta ghatna. Eik deen ma baralindai baralindai baralindai pashupati pugya thee 12 bajey tira tyo pani ama lay bhanera - "babu aja thulo ekadashi, charrai dhoka khoolcha darshan garera ayes". Ma chai ewutai dhoka bhyeyera tyai seto pasal agadi Raam-dana ladawundai chya khayera magney magney jhagda garya herera basi ra thee. Chya ko gilas ma ke lagya raicha bhanera herdai thee..paket maryo packet maryo bhanya sunee. Yaso herchu ta "Chhala ko jutta layera bhitra jana manahi cha" ko muntira basera ewuti aaimai kaan chamdai karai ra raichey. Taumma dhoti ra cholo laga aaimai ko kata packet marecha bhanthanee. Eik cheen pachi bandur dhapawundai police aai pugyo.. "Khai ka maryo pocket?" bhanera sodhyo. Mero kaan ma packet maryo bhanera ragutpaucchey bhako kaan dekhai police lai. Jutta lawuney nihu ley ewuta awara lay soon ko jhoomka kannai bata thootera bhagecha ..kuro bujhda.
Aaimai dookhya ra harako toad ma karawuna thali woota..malai chai joke bhai ra...musu musu hasdai baki chya sakkain
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 12:12 PM
>When I was asked whether I misrepresented DG's throw-away
> remark on sajha, my answer was: "[Since I was not carrying a
>tape-recorder at the time], this is what I honestly remembered
>to the best of my memory."
Ashu, let's be honest ok, it was not your reply when you were first asked the question. You were angry, you said not only Dipak dai, but also others too did this, you implied PhD was sheer waste of time, (even implied you also didn't decide to go for PhD for that reason), pulled the stuff of totally irrelevant past issues ("Strikes") , oh, boy, rather than providing a straight answer.
I had been very charitable to you, all I wanted to know was how did he 'refuse' to complete PhD. (One of your replies was it was inconceivable to me that some people refuse PhD from top schools..)and didn't use 'chamcha' etc word either. Now, as a master of the art of portraying yourself as victim, you are 'producing' all these things now, which is also fine for me.
Look, I was even implying that probably you were too gullible to believe him, which now you seem to be implying.("I was actually more amused than impressed when DG said that to me, and was willing to brush that claim aside as something not worth getting worked up about." ) Obviously, you were not willing to brush that claim aside, you wanted us to believe that, when I questioned that, you fumed, you were enraged, you implied 'doing PhD is sheer waste of time, this guy also refused to do PhD, that guy also refused to PhD', and I asked you for evidence. Do you want me to sit down and say, 'ho Ashu dai. Hamro Dipak dai ta kasto mahaan'???
Pahilenai malaai pani shankaa thiyo bhaneko bhaye bhai haalthyo ni. I wouldn't have pushed you that far. My issue was this: whether a person occupying nation's one of the highest position lied to people or not.
Look if he lied to you in private, he probably also lied to others. Prevarication is a habitual thing.It is very likely that he also lied about his PhD thing to others. If he is habitual liar, I can't believe he is gonna be honest in his job. If he didn't lie to you, then you lied here. If that is not the case, please prove what you claimed. Very plain and simple.
|
| Garibjanata |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 12:48 PM
Dear Jira dai, Yo out of context ko kura ho,taipani gari halu.Tapai le Pahupatinath ko kura garda jhal-jhali manma ayo MRIGASTHALI ban ko.Tyaha ek jana famous PADE SWAMI dyan garera chaubisai ganta basnu huncha,tapai le pani waha sanga bhetne awasar ta paunu bhayo nei hola,kunai tyam ma.Waha,PADE SWAMI, le malai derai barsha agadi,tyahi thau ma(mrigashali) ,PIPUL ko rukh muni auta -SLOK SUNAUNU BHAEKO THIYO.YO SLOK PAD PURANA ma cha.
LAU SUNUS TA YO SLOK:
PRATHAMA PADANTI,DHURA,DHURA PANDANTI,
MADYAMA PADANTI TUEIKA TUEIKA PADANTI,
TUSCHA PADANTI DHAMA DHAMA.
PADE SWAMI LE SLOK TA SUNAUNU BHAYO, TARA MERO SANSKRIT KO GYAN ekdum KAMJOR CHA,MAIELE TAS ARTHA KEHI BUJINA.PLease can u translate the PADE hymn into ENGLISH for me.
|
| SITARA |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 05:47 PM
Stolen from Hahoo guru ko Human Rightest thread....when he made Sitara the treasurer of his Human Rights movement!
The Economics of Human Rights and Character Abuse:
1. I might ask every one to cut down on character abuse....fewer word per posting.
2. More white spaces in every postings.
3. NO animal abuse.... Kalanki ji le, he has been abusing his mouse re...overclicked and Not underweared!
4.Focus on the common human wrongs of Biswo and Ashu....."I am Right!"
5.Agenda: ... "What is Wrong with Human Rights? Nothing!", "What is Right with Human Wrongs? Everything!"
6. Solution: "Let us all Agree to Disagree in Everything!"
7. Compensation: "If you can't handle the heat.......Walk away---------> "FIRE EXIT"
8. Budget Analysis: We start from ZERO and end with ZERO
9. Conclusion: Profit:
a. larger brain
b. bigger mouth
c. smarter defence
d.better offence
e.peaceful compromisation
d.Smaller ego (profit by default)
Loss:
1. Loss of time ( a perishable commodity)
2. Loss of words (a non perishable commodity)
3. Loss of ego (a recyclable commodity)
4.Loss of face ( a cyber identity)
5.Loss of pride (not a loss, pride is man's downfall)
6.Loss of eyesight, finger mobility and sanity ( for all that we have medical insurance)
And I do Digress from the Phd. holders to the Phd. Na holders... from the Phd. wanna holders (like me... :S) to the Phd. rejectors!!!
But this is posted to all educated thinkers.... who beg to differ!
Always a Zennist in zest! :)
|
| U_2 |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 07:11 PM
If filling the ministry posts in Nepal by DG kind of people is a good thing to happen, why should any one even bother about politics in Nepal? Wouldn’t it be just simple to place an ad in Gorkhapatra seeking most competitive people of Nepal to run the country? And then select our ministers based on their clean images, education (Harvard, Berkley?), publications, expertise (past experiences), etc. Who will select? Let’s hire a consultant for that. There would be no need for election then, no need to pay for 205 MPS, no political parties, and no need for politicians at all !! Why would anyone even care for which political system would be good or bad for Nepal?
|
| Nepali Kanchi |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 07:17 PM
Before Silvio Berlusconi won in Italy,the left party was in power. What they did is, the hard core politicians ran the country from behind the scenes, and they appointed the intellectual/ technical professionals to head the country , including the prime minister. That way the country was run by techocrats , and the politicians were all backstge. I think it was pretty successful strategy.
|
| paramendra |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 07:20 PM
I was going to read all the posts to the thread --- but I gave up after having come down 40% of the way. I am bursting at the seams to say a few things. I will go back and read the rest later.
Ashu's initial comment was largely social in nature. He knows the Gyawali character in person, apparently. And now the character is in the cabinet. I can appreciate the good feeling on his part. Despite my thoughts on King G's move, I have been happy to see a Madhesi for Deputy Prime Minister. I don't know Mandal personally. But he is the Sadbhavana supremo. And I am glad he has been an outspoken DPM so far. Now I would like to see a Madhesi Prime Minister asap, that's all. And I am not happy there are only two Madhesis in the cabinet. And only one woman! That is despicable.
Read: I don't think Ashu has proven he is a "Mandale," as in a Panche.
And there are so many individual comments that I would have liked to respond to, but there are technical difficulties. I sit at a public computer that does not let me open up more than one window. (Yes, write a letter to the Leesburg, FL, mayor...)
About the whole Ph.D. debate, frankly I had never heard of this guy before. I had been avoiding this thread for the longest time thinking someone posted something here instead of in the section at the site where you can post greetings. The only Deepak Gyawali I know is a high school classmate who works for Oracle. And I did not think he was being "congratulated" for something. So I was keeping away.
At my own loss!
I just was hoping the thread would instead morph into a renewed debate on Arun III itself. Will somone please summarize the two sides' positions? And we could go on from there.
And I have intensely disliked some of the expressions here that are resembling of things I dislike about some of the Kathmandu attitudes. So patronizing of those who live outside the valley.
My summary: I think Biswo in the Man of the Hour at this thread. I am surprised so few understand or pretend not to understand what he is really saying. I am surprised more people are not adding to his chorus on democracy. Democracy is no "relativity" theory. It is quite simple as a concept.
Sparsha: "...I live in the US. If the temp. falls below 70 degrees, I feel cold and turn up the thermostat. I am sick of eating chicken every day and miss kodoko roti for a change, I am sick and tired of my Honda accord. I would like to go for either Mercedes or high grade Acura at least. I want to move to a better neighborhood. I don’t like to see old-car-riding people; I hate to see utility van parked overnight in my neighborhood. My idea of democracy in Nepal sure does not match with that of jetho tamang who sleeps after drinking just plain water on a gundri in a rainyday under a leaking kharko chhano if nobody hires him to carry load from place to place...."
This is so off target. This is such a patronizing attitude to have. With friends like these, does "jetho tamang" need ......... you know what. This is the NGO-Pajero culture decadency that makes Kathmandu such an unattractive place. I am not surprised Gyanendra is a Kathmanduite!
Democracy is not for the rich, not for the educated, it is for everybody. Need I elaborate? Democracy is needed precisely because most Nepalis are poor, most Nepalis are illiterate. Duh.
No sympathies for Wagle-Gupta-Khadka. But what about the corrupt from the Pancha and the Durbar circle? What about King G's corruption? The businessman G's corruption? Is it true he bullied the Himalayan Bank guy into writing off his personal loans from the bank?
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 07:36 PM
I guess it is obvious I have few good things to say about King G and his move. But let that not cloud the fact that I think Girija Koirala has been a disgrace. And I would like to see the Nepali Congress further decimated. That is the party responsible for the mess from the 1990s. Ranas --> Shahas ---> Koiralas? Nah.
Summary: Go for a Constituent Assembly by making the Maoists agree to a ceasefire, lay down arms and a subsequent promise to respect the outcome: a possible retention of the monarchy by the people, though a truly constitutional one where noone is above the law. On the other hand, make King G speak up and say he will agree to it if the outcome is a republic. That he will not try and do something funny.
But the thing is, I don't see that happening. King G is in no hurry. He just snubbed the political parties once again. If the Chand cabinet goes on for another two years, why would that make him unhappy? His interpretation of the Article 127 is probably the only thing he likes about the 1990 constitution.
But then let the Koirala Congress and the UML speak up. They are not doing it. If the king keeps on the way he is, will the two parties go for a republic? At what point will they? If not, do they want a new constitution, one that leaves no room for any misinterpretation by the palace? Do they want a constitution without Article 127? Speak up. They are not speaking up. Either way.
Koirala just wants the old parliament to be revived. It is not in the king's powers to do that. If the king were to "revive" that old parliament, now THAT would be unconstitutional. So if Koirala is making a demand for an unconstitutional step, is he not saying his becoming Prime Minister again is what democracy and constitution are all about? Is he not just trying to finish off his rival Deuba? Koirala is the worst thing that happened to Nepal in the 1990s. And King G might be the worst thing that has happened since!
|
| U_2 |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 08:19 PM
Small hydropower projects are safer, says minister
Himalayan News Service,
Kathmandu, November 21,
Dipak Gyawali, minister for water resources, has said that small hydropower projects are less risky for Nepal, which should gradually enhance its capacity for bigger projects.
"We can repair any damage to the small projects, like we did in Puwakhola. But if megaprojects are damaged, we won't be able to repair them," the minister said.
So he would stick to his earlier stance for small and medium projects?
"The question of risk is more important than the shape of the project," he said, adding that exercises are presently going on at his ministry on various issues concerning water resources development.
"My views on water resources development are all documented. I needn't explain them now," said the minister, a well-known expert on water resources.
About the political situation, Gyawali said there was nothing suspicious about the motive of King Gyanendra, who he said has reiterated his commitment to multiparty democracy since he was crowned. The King is following the constitution, he said.
He also said the monarch and the parties should work together to resolve the present crisis. Asked whether there was a grand design against democracy, as was alleged by a leading politician, he said: "I don't believe in a grand design. For that you need a grand mind and grand control."
He said he was opposed to the constituent assembly the Maoists have been demanding. However, he added that there is always "give and take when you sit down to negotiate". "Everything is negotiable for the sake of people and the country," he said.
According to him, the present government is committed to early elections but the political parties need to create the right environment. On the drive against corruption and the action by the Commission for the Investigation of Abuse of Authority (CIAA), he said, "The CIAA should be strengthened."
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:17 PM
Dear all -- I have today received a detailed clarification on the matter from Minister for Water Resources, Dipak Gyawali. I thank him from taking the time from his busy schedule to send me an e-mail. He has asked me not to circulate the contents of that *personal* e-mail. So in the interest of private trust, I can't post it here.
But I have replied to him "summarizing" what he told me. Because I do not want to mis-represent in public what he is saying, I have sent back my summary of his clarification to him for verfication, so that in the interest of public openness, I can then post them here with his consent.
After I hear from him again, what I will post will be his *public* clarification over a public assertion attributed to him that has been challenged here.
I thank Minister Gyawali for appreciating the gravity of this issue which impinged on the integrity and credibility of a public official, and thus taking the time and interest to respond.
Mr. Gyawali also says he tried to open this thread, but couldn't for technical reasons.
Please stay tuned for more!
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| gorkheni |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:45 PM
baf re baf. aba ke huni hole. kasto suspence lyaunu bhaeko Paschim jyu. ani kati hint dinu na truth ke hola bhanera hami pani guess garu, ramailo huncha ni. \
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:58 PM
>His interpretation of the Article 127 is probably the only
>thing he likes about the 1990 constitution.
Paramendra, I like that! And of course,no doubt about that. Reading his message on the occasion of constitutional day was really really funny.
>If the king keeps on the way he is, will the two parties go for a republic?
I think what Nepali people are doing now is parallel to this story in Mahabharata.
Shishupal was allowed 100 sins to commit by Krishna. Krishna just kept on tolerating Shishupal whatever he did, and Shishupal got bolder, and continued to discharge fusillades of insults to Krishna. It is said that his last moment was in a 'shabhaa' in a palace where both Krishna and Shishupal were present. Shishupal was under the impression that he could say anything to Krishna, and Krishna was just a weak person. After 90+ insults, he kept on insulting Krishna even more, and reached 100, .. and the rest, as they say, is history.
We don't know what is '100' in this case, but people are just counting. If the king misunderstands this as 'weakness' of common Nepali people, he will be inviting that predefined, almost certain destiny.
That said, I hope that he understands what is at the stake. I want our country to present a united voice against the scourge of Maoism rightnow.
--
Paschim,
Good job.
Waiting for the reply.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Nov-02 09:59 PM
Thanks Paschim for your work.
I too look forward to what Dipak Dai has to say so that this matter can be laid to rest.
It would be better if Dipak Dai were able to open this entire thread and read it. But never mind.
When was the last time a Nepali Minister visited sajha.com?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 02:08 AM
Paschim,
if he can post the clarification. The value of sajha.com will go one grade up. San King gets part of the credit. The number of visitor will increase. Paramendra ji, why not you start dessiminating the information, like Pepsi did in Kathmandu when it schedualed to arrive in KTM in '80. ....."for the first time in town"...... The ad. was so funny, I was surprised what is coming in town. It was Pepsi, the rival drink of Coke. That time we did not have TV (at least me) and did not what the hell is that Pepsi Mark looked like distorted South Korean flag............... So, our chief of the advertising department, Paramendra ji must be flooding another $50M ad. banners around the cyberspace that his classmate @ Budha Paschim will be briging a news i.e. clarification from Nepal's incumbant minister .......... against the accusation of "white lie" that he was seeking RENT from "he refused Ph.D." .................
Lets see how much it will hit our BOX office: Sajha.com.
Do you H@hoo! Join Sajha.com
Aru Pachhi!?! after you join Sajha.com
HG
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| torilaure |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 02:24 AM
Well, looks like the fireworks has cooled down(at least for now). I mean who needs WWF when so much PYROTECHNICS is going on here in Sajha.
Looking forward to the reply from Dipak Sir (before anyone says "here goes another one again.." let clarify that I did take his class for a week last year and also I do respect him as well).
Amar
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| Jhilke Kyailan |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 02:27 AM
Biswo, Paramendra...., From what I hear (don't quote me on this) there are elements within the Nepali congress who are seriously considering forming an alliance with the left or far left against the ..... (guess who??) They are gathering strength and have begun making plans for their aims of repuiblicism........(politics makes strange.....)
On another note I just want to say one thing, true that the current bacth of politicians were/are/will be corrupt, but sometimes I think, at least they are new people and not the same old elite blood suckers who have been sucking the country dry for the last few hundred years...it makes me (sick) laugh, when Ranas, and certain people connected with the old regime allege corruption, they have the nerve...The circle is increasing and the Kathmandu elite can't take it, they feel threatened.....Although he is no angel, the Ktm wallas have always seen GP as the epitome of the real threat to their hold on power...from people outside the valley......Don't like him much personally, but don't like the Ktm elite even more.......Had an argument with one the other day....he was saying the people in Nepal were not ready for democracy....aree baba.....whose fault is that?????
What is DG going to say......this thread has reached its thrilling climax....
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 06:20 AM
Aba arko manche tira pani public accusation lai clean up garna tira lagne ki ta.
Badri Prasad Mandal was accused of RAPE ATTEMPT when his former friend Deepak Bohara (both were assistant ministers) was hospitalized (without any real reason to be hospitalized) and they tried to enter to nurse's hostel north of Bir Hospital and tried to rape some young girls studying nursing. I want someone to send our concern and clarify his position, and if this is false "framed accusation", then personal clarification from Mandal might honor respect on him. Who can take this job? for the sake of sajhapurians?
I am still wondering Dr. Alok Bohara, former teacher in TU, went to USA using his elder brother's influence (same way as Jr. wagle earned a lot of money exploiting his father's public position) when he was public figure i.e. minister or MP in Panchayat time? I want to get such clarification too. Because Aloka Bohara (younger bro. of Deepak Bohara?) writes a lot of article on corruption and misuse of powers, so why not we make sure he is pure ?
Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 08:37 AM
Hi folks:
Not been taking a lot of (proactive) tours in Sajhapur lately, but couldn't resist this one...
Biswo and Paschim have raised some valid points about Ashu's claims that Deepak Dai (mero pani Dai hai, Biswo !!). That he refused Ph.D. from Berkeley.
I have known Deepak Dai for the last 10 years or so, and do hold him in high esteem. But let's no digress: did he refuse the Ph.D. offer? Of course, it needs a clear answer, without getting into some fudgy rhetoric.
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| rbaral |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:09 AM
Being Ajay Dixit Sir's student, I have met Deepak Gyawali a couple of times when they (Dixit Sir and DG) had an office around Putali Sadak. All I know about him was for his clarity of concept, independent views, and forceful expression that I had repeadedly witnessed in his writings. He deserves a respect, a lot of it. I would not hesitate to congratulate him on being a minister. I would also not have trouble believing him of refusing an admission to a PhD offer. In my opinion, declining an admission to a PhD offer is not that of a big deal, if he ever had. Accepting admission, completing coursework and getting a PhD would definitely be a deal, though.
On an another note, admission to a PhD program from a reputed school, in my opinion, is not as competitive as has been thought. For a person who already has an MS and credible research publications, admission to PhD comes handy. Especially if someone has research skill, experience, and is in an especialized field.
Still, I remain inquisitive to know the truth.
Namaste, Rishi
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:21 AM
Paramendra:
Sparsha: "...I live in the US. If the temp. falls below 70 degrees, I feel cold and turn up the thermostat. I am sick of eating chicken every day and miss kodoko roti for a change, I am sick and tired of my Honda accord. I would like to go for either Mercedes or high grade Acura at least. I want to move to a better neighborhood. I don’t like to see old-car-riding people; I hate to see utility van parked overnight in my neighborhood. My idea of democracy in Nepal sure does not match with that of jetho tamang who sleeps after drinking just plain water on a gundri in a rainyday under a leaking kharko chhano if nobody hires him to carry load from place to place...."
This is so off target. This is such a patronizing attitude to have. With friends like these, does "jetho tamang" need ......... you know what. This is the NGO-Pajero culture decadency that makes Kathmandu such an unattractive place. I am not surprised Gyanendra is a Kathmanduite!
I don't care whether you label my posting on the target or off target. I was expressing my views. "With friends like these, does jetho tamang need what? more parmendras? What does paramendra like to see ASAP? no not peace...not anything else but a Madhesi PM. Yeah, Madhesi PM is the need of the hour. Nepal will be destroyed if we don't have a Madhesi PM as soon as possible. He is glad that Mandal is DPM. How clean Mandal is? Parmendra cares less. why? because mandal is a Madhesi. He wants more madhesis in the cabinet. I am sick of this guy's madhesi cry. No matter what the issues is, he opens up his madhesi "pitaro" and starts to cry.
What I was talking about on the posting you, paramendra, quoted is, "democracy does not mean anything unless people are interested in democracy 101. Who goes to sleep hungry 10 out 30 days in a month is more interested in food than in democracy." "bhoko bahnchha dada wari kham, aghako bhanchha dada pari kham" sunya chha yo kahilayai? Paramendra ji? Artha tha chha?
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| wy |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:59 AM
For whatever its worth,
I did some checking through some search engine on Dr. Bohara and a few dozens articles popped up. He is a full professor at the U. of New Mexico. I also heard somewhere that he got his Chance;llor Medal at TU, whatever that means. He also seems to have publisehed pieces on higher education and political economy in nepali newspapers.
Peace!!!
|
| Suna |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:02 AM
Paschim!!
Mailey kani kani euta kabita racheyko thiye a la nursery rhyme istyal and u overlooked it! Dherai serious guff ma matrai phasna hunna rey kya :) hanikarak for your health!
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| jira |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:05 AM
Khai kehi patta lagyo PHD ko barema ? Sanchhai offer deny garya ho rey ta ? Ki yuassai hawa ma lattey dya? ke ho ke ho khai...patta lawunu paryo hai chanddai...manchay woota mantri bhai sakyo, profile bhaney aulpatra......
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:10 AM
RBaral ji,
Namaste! Dherai Samaye pachhi, bhet bho ni ta. Maile ta khuba Avatar fere tyo TND ra SCN Pachhi ta. Tapai ta ooohi! RBARAL nai hunu hundo rahechha. Khusi lagyo tapai ko recent note padhda. Aghillo pani padheko ta hunm tara reply ko time nai napayeko ni.
Maile khasai Dipak Gyawali bhanne manche bhanera TV ma dekhe ko 1988-89(?) ma ho. There was an interview in NTV, interviewed by I guess Oohi! "HAWA-Bijay nick name in his campus days: as you know he used to be campus top in campus debate competitons... " Bijay (now Vijay Babu). He was seating on the chair in front of computer, talking on Nepal's hydropower. He was very sarcastic "as young Nepali, I guess it is natural "RENT SEEKING TRICK". Chair ko dui arms mathi hath rakhera chair agadi pachhadi vibrating mode ma ... ekdam relaxed bhayera was speaking with Bijay Kumar (?if my memories are not bad) .......... I remember the company he was associated was "integrated development(ho ki TECHNICAL ho birshe) services (or consultants?), Pvt. Ltd." because it was also written in the TV screen. Many peoples said, "yo ko rahechha ... kya ghagdan rahechha ... kasto tagada boldo rahechha... kya twakka twakka nadarai kan thik parne rahechha ...". next day, we discussed a lot on that particular interview. I also remember "HAWA" BK interviewed an actress, and peoples criticized BK for the questions he asked to her "tapai kali ramri bhanchan ni" (black beauty...), khub ghamandi hunuhuncha re .... ityadai ityadi... ahile ko developed world scale bhanne ho bhane tyo complte sexual harassement ho. .... I mean DG was hit in nepal since then, I guess.
Well, afu paryo tak tuk copy garne ani twist garera new origina ljasto dekhauna sipalu re kya. Do you Hahoo!? ta copy gariyo. Dipak Dai ko company ko naam pani copy garna man lagera "salega Integrated fulbutta Services, Pvt. Ltd. bhanera kholna khojeko tyo mula company register ko office le manne hoina. Louja bhanera hamle pani .... milne naam theldeu, naam le matra hune bhe kina hunna tyo ra kaam saam payena .... tyo company flop bho, Dipak Dai mantri hunu bho .......... hamro company le tax tirna nasakera flop. He bhayean bhanera bidesh ma lahure baniyeko chha: Hahoo!Guru ko avatar ma.....
Yo sab lekhe ko Dipak Dai lai kahile dekhi One sided chineko bhanera ni. Maile pani chineko (one sided) dherai bho bhanera proof gareko ni....
La Aru Pachhi!?!
HG
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:34 AM
Guruji,
I have seen Dr Bohra's publication list somewhere. He is a real smart guy who 'can' do research. I think he did PhD from Colorado, Boulder. I haven't formed my opinion about his 'political' pieces yet, but let's not doubt his intellectual ability. I don't know him, haven't met him yet, but I know him by some of his journal articles.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:35 AM
Hey Village Voice,
Before you totally misinterpret and twist my claim, let me make this very, very clear.
I myself NEVER claimed that Dipak Dai refused an offer to do a PhD at Berkeley.
That was NOT what I claimed at all.
Go back and read my posting, way above.
What I DID claim was: "BY HIS OWN ACCOUNT" Dipak Dai refused an offer to do
a PhD at Berkeley. I was merely reporting -- based on my own memory -- what
Dipak Dai once said to me. Like I said, I was not carrying a tape-recorder at
the time.
Was Dipak Dai lying to me?
I don't think so.
Was and is Dipak Dai capable of completing a PhD at Berkeley?
I don't see why not. He's gone to do research for months at Oxford and other
places in the last 10 years.
Even if, for the sake of argument, Dipak Dai was, let's say, showing some "saan" to me by that claim, do I mind?
Not at all, and that's because that "saan" is, as I have explained earlier, a harmless one, more amusing than serious, unlike what some Paschim and Biswo seem to be implying here.
Would I lie for or about Dipak Dai in any capacity?
No. I have no incentive/motive to do so.
Village Voice: you're a journalist. I'd appreciate if you could please keep these points straight in your mind. That's all, thank you.
oohi
ashu
ktm.nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:38 AM
Almost 4000 viewings!
Wow!!
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| jira |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:40 AM
Thuikka!!
I pay my last tribute to sajha.com
BYE
|
| Yatree |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 11:07 AM
Guru jee,
About Alok Bohara: don't go there - about-turn garera pharkiye hunchha. He is smart and capable on his own account. He was a Lecturer of Statistics at TU before he left for the U.S. Doesn't that say anything? He was teaching the graduate students then.
He left for the U.S. BEFORE Dipak Bohara entered politics. Dipak was just a Mandale then. I think Dipak is Alok's half brother - totally different. Alok wasn't even in the Mandale group.
Alok is an old friend, although I am not in touch with him for ages. Leave him alone.
Peace!
|
| NirajBS |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 11:13 AM
There is an interview of Deepak Gwayali in the new edition of 'Saptahik Bimarsha'. The link is in Nepalnew.com site. He has some pretty interesting things to say. Nothing about his 'offered PhD' though:). For that we still have to wait for that posting from Paschim.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 11:14 AM
Alok Bohara is a TENURED professor at the University of New Mexico.
A few years ago, I read one of his co-authored papers in "American Economic
Review" -- one of the flagship-journals of the economics profession.
Alok, whom I do NOT know personally, is an academic achiever in his own right.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 11:29 AM
This is just for info only:
One of the smartest Nepalis I have ever had the pleasure of knowing GAVE UP a
PhD program in electrical engineering at MIT after spending three years there.
He had a straight A average at MIT grad school.
He told me that he was just plain bored doing electrical engineering all the time,
and I believed him.
He then went on to become a banker in Europe for some years; and, later decided that
he liked studying after all, developed a passion for urban planning and went back to grad school at Cornell to finish a PhD in urban planning.
He's now an assistant professor in Illinois.
Moral of the story?
There do exist Nepalis, however few, who do say "no thanks" to top-rated PhD programs because they want to do something else.
Again, this is just for your info only.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 11:55 AM
Ashu,
I had a friend, De Cai , a graduate of Qinghua University, who went to do Chemical Engineering in Cornell (Ranks real top in Chem Eng). He also had straight A in his PhD there. He studied there for three years. But he later had a real problem with his professor, who at a point even threatened to cut off the assistantship. So,according to him, he 'himself' left the school, and went to work in Baton Rouge, LA for almost a year. Last year, he told me he would be joining University of Texas, Austin for PhD in winter. I think sure he is doing PhD there rightnow.
--
Your friend say 'No Thanks' to PhD program after he went there. That is not the case of Mr Gyawali. That's why the question. All I am asking is how the claim was made? On what basis? Now, that Mr Gyawali himself had written to Paschim, let's wait, shall we?
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:00 PM
shu,
I had a friend, De Cai , a graduate of Qinghua University, who went to do Chemical Engineering in Cornell (Ranks real top in Chem Eng). He also had straight A in his PhD there. He studied there for three years. But he later had a real problem with his professor, who at a point even threatened to cut off the assistantship. So,according to him, he 'himself' left the school, and went to work in Baton Rouge, LA for almost a year. Last year, he told me he would be joining University of Texas, Austin for PhD in winter.
I think he is doing PhD there rightnow.
It is not inconceivable to me that some leave PhD program after joining it. Some are forced to leave. Some leave for a better program, some leave to earn money etc. etc. What is inconceivable to me is some 'turn down' Berkeley PhD to write monograph in Hawai.
--
Your friend said 'No Thanks' to PhD program after he went there. That is not the case of Mr Gyawali. That's why the question. All I am asking is how the claim was made? On what basis? Now, that Mr Gyawali himself had written to Paschim, let's wait, shall we?
|
| Horizon |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:01 PM
OK Ashu,
Who is Saurav Dev Panta ?
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:10 PM
Biswo wrote:
"Now, that Mr Gyawali himself had written to Paschim, let's wait, shall we?"
Logically speaking, how do YOU know "that Mr Gyawali himself had written to Paschim?"
All we have so far -- whether you like it or not -- is Paschim's self-reported assertion here that he had received something from Mr. Gyawali.
That's all.
When you are jumping up and down, on one hand, saying that you do not believe my self-reported account of what Dipak Dai once said to me, what then makes YOU turn around and somwhow believe Paschim's self-reported assertion that Mr. Gyawali
himself had wriiten to Pachim?
In oth cases, you have NO proof.
UNLESS and UNTIL we all see Paschim's posting, why don't you keep on swallowoing your own medicine -- NOT believing a word of what others claim to have heard or received until you have seen the proof yourself?
Or, do you have an excuse?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:17 PM
Horizon,
I do NOT know Saurav Dev Panta.
I do know one Saurav Dev, but his surname is something else.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| protean |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:20 PM
Paschim,
Thanks for the initiative. We'll soon find out the veracity of this claim that has been much discussed.
Ashu,
The person did decide to pursue a PHD at a top rate University albeit a different field. In this case, he was offered a PHD and he didn't puruse it as he wanted to switch careers.
But, In the case of Dipak Gyawali, he mentioned of a PHD offer that he rightfully declined. But, he has pursued the career in the same field uptil now. He could have done it for the opportunity costs involved. But, it is equally probable that he might not have been offered that opportunity.
Having said that, we'll soon find out the truth about this matter.
|
| binay |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:31 PM
Here we go again.... please, please spare other people's personal life in this public forum. I think we all know where we stand in this PhD debate, so pls let's not drag more people and their integrity in this discussion just to make an argument for the sake of argument. Saurav left his study in MIT for a job with the Union Bank of Switzerland, so what? Does this proves doing a PhD is a sheer "waste of time"? No! He eventually return to academia and finished what he thought was appropriate thing for him to do. Looks like he wanted to take a break... Personal priority shifts from time to time.
|
| Yatree |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:34 PM
Adapted/copied from a newspaper. I am NOT saying all of the following quips are relevant here. Discussion is good, but not like: baans kaatera dhungro, dhungro kaatera sinka, sinka kaatera thunka ...
Here you go. Take you pick which one you like the most.
All in a jest - no offense!
- At first I thought you guys were going around in a circle. Then I realized it's actually a downward spiral.
- Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
- So many stupid people, so few meteors.
- I was going to tell you about the Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought "what good would that do?" when you are hell bent on negative thinking.
- Computers let you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and whisky.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:44 PM
Binay-ji,
Keep your cool, and think along this line.
Stories like Saurav's need to be told so that we all know all the more that there are MULTIPLE and DIVERSE paths of completing and not completing a PhD . . . and that there is NO one-size-fits-all approach, and that people make academic decisions based
on what is appropriate for them and those decisions may change for them depending
on whatever contexts come up, and that the rest of us should learn to live with their decisions, without second-guessing and being suspicious of their whatever motives.
I started this thread to simply congratulate Dipak Dai.
Biswo (first) and Paschim (later) have consistently and repeatedly -- for reasons best known to themselves -- focussed on the PhD thing as though that were the MOST IMPORTANT THING here.
Just so you and others know this and can please keep this separate from a
general PhD debate.
oohi
"some of my good friends in and out of Nepal have doctorates"
ashu
ktm,nepal
I am merely responding to their
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:55 PM
Binayji,
I didn't say anything about Saurav. I don't know him. But my point is he can say 'he left PhD' because he does have 'proof'.
All I am asking for is that kind of proof from Gyawali. Is that too much to ask after such claims are made here?
This thread is not about 'general PhD' debate. This thread is about whether someone occupying public office lied or not. If he didn't lie, fine. If he lied, that would also be fine because he might still be better than some others in this bataase council of ministers.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 12:58 PM
Ashu,
Desperation, desperation.
Paschim said it here. In public domain. And I believe Paschim more than a lot of others who keep on making UNVERIFIED assertions again and again. If Paschim lied, I would ask him to correct it here.
|
| Jame Bonds |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 01:04 PM
Attention discussion participants,
I wanted to bring to your notice that he who gets the last word in, wins the debate. That is the natural law that defines the winner of any discussion.
|
| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 01:13 PM
This discussion seems to relate to three intertwining issues:
- the Ph.D. issue
- the claim of having refused to complete Ph.D. from Berkeley
- the viability of democratic system in Nepal’s context
(I will not address the upmanship going on between certain individuals.)
Regarding the first issue, I have this to say: Go for it if circumstances favor. I will salute your diligence, intelligence and solitary journey through a painful path in your life’s journey.
Regarding the second issue, the truth will come out soon if paschim follows through on his pursuit. But to me the question is: What does the phrase mean? How does one refuse to complete a Ph.D? Protean’s comment makes it clear that there was no Ph.D. in that program. So what program was the Ph.D. offer for? One cannot get a Ph.D. in a program without enrolling first. And if one has enrolled, then what extenuating circumstances could be there not to complete? There are many as suggested by “wy,” although not exhaustive. Does it mean that DG was in the program and he failed to complete it? “Refuse” seems to be a wrong word.
Regarding the last issue I see some strengths and weaknesses on arguments on both sides of the issue, exemplified by sparsha and Bishwo, particularly. Basically there is an agreement on both sides that democracy is the system to aim for. And there is also a universal agreement that the so called democratic leaders are not competent to lead the process. If that is the case, how can democracy ever be implemented effectively in Nepal? Wouldn’t democracy in Nepal be like having a beautiful Boeing jet and giving the control to a team that has not only never flown that type of jet, but also are either inebriated or have other personal ineptitude to fly that airplane. If that is the case, the plane if it ever gets off the ground, more than likely crash-land. But in our case, it seems like the control tower scuttled the effort on the ground itself. Wisely? Who knows? Or was it just due to the “weather” report that just came in from the meteorology department? “Severe tornadoes developing ahead, flight condition poor, visibility 10 meters, no clearance for a take off.”
But unfortunately both sides skirt the issue about democracy to some extent. The problem is to see the larger picture, or the whole picture. Sparsha rightly points out: “how many people know and how many people care?… Constitution is nothing but a piece of paper unless people care to know what the constitution is for. Nepal is not that stage yet. People have other important stuff to think about these days than reading constitution.”
Rightly so. No matter how much we extol the benefits of democracy, it cannot stand on mere theoretical postulates. The pillar of democracy is “people” so to expect democracy to function relying on people who are more concerned with their everyday needs is expectation not based on reality. Let us remember that individuals have hierarchy of needs. Immediate psychological needs and security issues have to be fulfilled before they show interest in intellectual needs. Bishwo may be a middle class but that is not an average Nepali. And to expect poverty-stricken Nepalese to share middle class values will not stand on the avenue of logic.
However, sparsha and his followers take the argument too far when statements such as these are made: “I don't care who forms the govt. king, uml or kangress or some other parties. What I care, though, is if the cabinet is sincere in doing its business. can it deliver what people desire? can it think beyond party line? can it devote itself for the betterment of the nation and the people? if the answer is yes, then that's good enough for me. I care less who is the string master as long as the people and the nation benefit. let's be aware of rights first then no one can fool us. we will draft the constitution the way we want when we know what we want.
I will support whoever works honestly to maintain and enhance peace and prosperity in the nation. To me, peace in the nation to pave the way for prosperity is more important, today, than a definition of democracy and residency of sovereignty.”
Let us also remember that we had peace but hardly any prosperity during the Panchayati authoritarianism. And let is also not forget the system was a virtual sultanistic monarchical system geared towards the benefit a small ruling elites. It will be a foolhardy expectation to “think” and “assume” that Nepal is going to achieve growth and prosperity by reverting back to an anachronistic system that has already failed in Nepal. The logic of power politics, the track record of the puppeteer, and the recent developments show clear signs that “compromise” is not going to be coming forth, whether regarding democracy or Maoists. And “peace” there will never be unless the insurgency is stopped. God forbid the suggestion comes true that the king will win them over. Then it will be exploitation of the poor by the collusion of both the left and the right.
So what Bishwo needs to accept are reality based arguments: “For those who are not literate, things look even worse. They are being destroyed every day more by their own elected or local leaders than by narayanhiti or ktm. people…. It's the political parties that are dumb and keep on underestimating the janata and use democracy as a clutch when they suddenly find how dangerously irrelevant they are fast becoming with eroding popular support.” And statement like this never flies: “I know one thing: democracy. There is one way, straight way, right way, correct way, and that is our solution.”
|
| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 01:14 PM
What way is democracy? Does democracy has one way? I doubt it! Democracy can have various institutional make-ups. That is the crucial issue. It is apparent that what has been practiced as democracy in Nepal was not quite a democratic way. It is important to figure out what democratic institutional mechanism will best suit Nepal? It is important to ensure that corruption be minimized. It is essential that no reserve domain of privileged power linger on. It is crucial that transparency be there in all governmental and bureaucratic affairs. Yes, there are essential to have to make democracy work. How likely is it in Nepal’s given context of poverty and feudal legacies? It will have a chance if the middleclass, who cherish freedom and equality of opportunity also carry the burden of those who do not care about these issues just now.
What sparsha has to realize is that we do not want peace and stability of a graveyard. What the king will give us is “masssnghatko sunyata”. (suggest you to read “Shadow over sangri la” if you have not done it yet) What Bishwo has to consent is that applying democratic values in Nepal is troubling. Those who want to preserve it for progress have to bear more responsibility and be vigilant, as also bear more responsibility for it to flower.
Those who want democracy to have a stable role in Nepal have to situate Nepal in the international trend of globalization and figure out how best we can raise income of poor Nepalese. Most agree that tourism and hydropower can give us comparative advantage. In that regard, the best public goods we can provide is “peace and stability”. But the sadest reality is that democracy is under attack from all sides. The left has thwarted it by taking advantage of the freedom, the right has been reactionary, and the “democratic” leaders have associated it with self-promotion and enrichment. Sparsha says it aptly: “when CIAA grills khum bdr. that's fine but when it calls sujata, gpk says now this is the conspiracy to bring down the democracy. yeah, as if democracy is lurking on sujata's butt.”
So to Bishwo my question is: Who is going to fly the Democracy jumbo jet? You might say, let new leaders take over. My question is, where are they and how are they replace the dickheads that are in charge of the parties?
And to sparsha my question is: If the monarchy did not make difference to the people under the panchayati rule, what gives you confidence to assert that it will happen now?
|
| najar |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 01:32 PM
To put this case to rest for once and all, may be Ashu can request "Dipak Dai" to visit this site/thread or ask to try again (did paschim say DG tried to get to this thread) and address the pressing issues that have emerged. If he took time to respond to Paschim's query, I am sure he would not mind sparing another half an hour , well may be little more (considering the length of discussion we have in this thread) for public interest.
That way there is no heated debate over who said what, wo reported what, who lied, who did not blabla .....
sorry folks, i know i don't belong here, just had jump in ....don't have much to contribute on the issue either...so i am outta here and leave it for all the intellectuals of the house :)
|
| najar |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 01:43 PM
ok, one more statement--there is one risk of Minister DG visiting this site. He might get addicted to it like the many of us here--what is a consequence there? instead of working hard to develop the country, DG will be posting message in sajha..heheh
|
| Rusty |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 02:45 PM
The truth behind the assertion-- DG refused Ph.D. from Berkeley -- must come out in Sajha. I know people are working on revealing the truth. If it is possible, we want DG to visit this site and comment what really it is.
|
| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 03:00 PM
Why making so big deal (about something which seemed so trivial to me during our studies?
During our time most of us laughed at PhD students (saying loosers, did not get good job hence had to stick to 4/5 years of junkie life - I agree today I would not say that, PhD is important and I would also do it today given the right circumstances ) and almost whole pack of us said 'No Thanks to PhD' programs.
Most of the US Universities are preying on good Master's students to continue with their PhD programs as long as you are 'Better than Average'. And University like CAL Berkeley is even more on that because they have more PhD programs than they have Master's (48 of them in my last count and most of them are among top 10 - hence makes it a #1 Research University, I think Stanford came #2).
Typically, Americans are not big fan of joining PhD's hence Facultiy's fish a lot of good Master's students from overseas and prop them to enroll in PhD programs.
During my time out of 24 Master's students in my department 22 were foreign graduates.
But, when industry pays you in equivalent (MS or PhD) then students are left with difficult choice of continuing with PhD program or not. So, many of us take a logical choice of doing or not doing PhD depending upon once' circumstances, conviction and interest.
So, should all of my friends and myself keep telling people 'We Did not Accept PhD'. It is so childish claim.
For God's shakes, Deepakji merely been offered the 'Admission' in PhD program and he chose not to go through it, whether he would complete it or not is even bigger question.
So, let us say Amen to this claim.
I don't even see any importance in looking at what Deepakji says to Paschimji.
Big deal!
- iti
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 03:32 PM
Siwallikji,
Please use "Biswo" in stead of "Bishwo":-)
You have raised good points. Let me offer some of my views on that too.
> Bishwo may be a middle class but that is not an
>average Nepali. And to expect poverty-stricken
> Nepalese to share middle class values will not
>stand on the avenue of logic.
OK, if poverty-stricken Nepali don't have to share 'middle-class' value, then how logical it is to expect them to share this 'elite class' value of authoritarian regime? In my view, democracy is the right given to exactly those poor people to choose their ministers/leaders.
I have heard a lot of Chitwane cursing their MP. Particularly this one is interesting" aaja nikai chadhera hideko chha, vote maagne belaa thaahaa paauchha' to MP Ranabhat by a person who worked as 'bhariya' in my friend's 'cement ra rad ko pasal'. What is that? That is a perception of privilege even that 'bhariya' was feeling.
I don't want any more top-down approach implemented in Nepal. Wasn't 103 years of Rana Rule a top-down approach? Wasn't Panchayat a top-down approach? Isn't 150 years of one-way sucking of blood enough for us? Now, we want a buttom-up approach. Only that can make people feel empowered.
>So what Bishwo needs to accept are reality based
> arguments: “For those who are not literate, things
> look even worse. They are being destroyed every
> day more by their own elected or local leaders than
>by narayanhiti or ktm.
I do accept reality based arguments, Siwalikji. I am also not a Congressi or UML guy, and I have always criticized Girija/Sher Bdr/Madhav Nepal when needed.Just because your driver is bad, you don't throw away your tractor, do you?
Sher Bdr was engaged in horse-trading, one of the most infamous acts of democracy. Isn't the king doing same? He is offering this thing and that thing to entice greedy leaders of mainstream parties. MPs like Ansari(?) were later rejected by people in election, can any one of us do that to ministers or the king now?
It is also very interesting to notice one special royal tradition. If Mr X's father was a loyal servant, Mr X is also likely to be 'given' the privilege of being a loyal servant. This thing is true in household jobs, like dwaare, susaare, dhaai aamaa, bla bla bla. This thing is also true in other jobs. In particular, I was close to a family member of one previous anchalaadhis:his daai was anchalaadhis, he was anchalaadhis, his son was colonel of army etc.etc.So, the royals effectively helped to create this kind of elite classes. Where is the interest of common people?Living inside the cocoon of family interest, they effectively blocked nation's path to development. Numerous lives were sacrificed just to get the right to vote, right to form one's own party etc., in the post 2017. We can't undo that easily.
There is nothing but a dark, unpredictable path ahead if Gyanendra chooses to go this way anymore. Currently seen 'passive state' of people is not a 'laahaa chaap' of agreement to the capricious moves of the king but a process to count the number of Shishupal's sins. Once it reaches '100', they will act ferociously.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 03:45 PM
"And to sparsha my question is: If the monarchy did not make difference to the people under the panchayati rule, what gives you confidence to assert that it will happen now? "
Siwalik,
I enjoyed your response. Jado ma night bus bata hetauda ma orlera ek cup "blender" ma ghumako coffee khako jasto ramro lagyo comment herda.
I am about to leave for the day. So let me quickly respond to your question, "And to sparsha my question is: If the monarchy did not make difference to the people under the panchayati rule, what gives you confidence to assert that it will happen now? "
I have never said narayanhiti is the only quarter that can deliver peace and prosperity. I am willing to give it a chance. That's all. If it can't improve things or make things worse, we should deal with the institution accordingly. I am fed up with current leadership bodies of all major parties.
Who do you suggest should lead the nation then? Where do I see with hope? Narayanhiti is status quo, Mao talks about defunct paradise with pointed guns, UML, NC and others see nothing beyound self and temporary gains and are clear reflection of "awasarbad and palyanbad", common people are either trapped and/or "bichalit" and/or "bibas". I am angry and frustrated.
|
| Yatree |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 03:57 PM
U_2 posted from Himalayan News Service, Kathmandu, November 21,
"Dipak Gyawali, minister for water resources, has said that small hydropower projects are less risky for Nepal, which should gradually enhance its capacity for bigger projects.
"We can repair any damage to the small projects, like we did in Puwakhola. But if megaprojects are damaged, we won't be able to repair them," the minister said. "
In the current situation in Nepal, hard to defend big and small projects and even harder to start a small hydro project.
Someone near and dear to me "works" in Nepal's small hydro projects - building small dams and generating electricity to 200-300 household, e.g. He is one of the best in the country. Now, he is practically unemployed for several months. He is an expert in the field; there is big demand for such small hydro projects; there is enough foreign and domestic capital waiting to pour in.
Still unemployed.
He can not take dynamites/explosives to the project site - too risky of being Maobadi's shikar. Some of the already built plants are being destroyed by them. Risk of physical harm in a remote area is the biggest concern. (And they don't need small hydro in the cities.) So, he can't get a new contract. Even if he gets one, he can't start it now. At this point, donors are just sitting and waiting. So is he. And it has been many many months.
Therefore, not only big hydro projects are threatened by Maoists. Small projects are not safe either.
First of all, the government (whether King G's or elected) should do everything in its power to solve the Maoist problem - by negotiation or by force. The Mantris should stop making sweeping policy announcements and work on solving the biggest problem the country is facing - Maoist.
Peace!
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 05:14 PM
I came back to clarify a point and drop few more words.
In my above (immediate) posting or response to Siwalik, I have talked about giving narayanhiti a chance. That chance I am talking about is not a permanent one. I want peace to prevail. If this current cabinet can positively work on that ASAP then I am willing to give it a chance.
Ok, Siwalik one more point. Peace in Panchayat kal you 're referring to was more or less "prevailing" peace. Now, we are talking about "restoring" peace. There is a difference. Prevailing peace is an achievement in itself, however, not an ultimate sole goal. Prosperity will take us ahead but without peace prosperity is not possible. Relatively prevailing peace in panchayat kal was good but our leaders then could not lead the nation towards prosperity. They failed there. It was sad and now we are paying prices. Big time.
I am honestly ready to give chance to UML, NC or any other parties with different leadership. But their goal should be promoting national interests (peace first) not party or personal issues.
About Biswoji's shisupal story: I think that is a defensive take. You don't win because you defeat somebody but win anyway when someone is defeated. It's like saying, 'kaal naai manchhe mardaina". So whenever a person dies, it's easy to say ,"kaal aaisakya re chha...kaal aaye pachhi kasaiko kehi lagdaina". You don't win as long as manchhe does dot die, you will be losing, in fact, but that lost seems insignificant. When the manchhe dies, you win.So, if kingship falls then Biswoji might say, "see, the kingship just committed it's 100th sin...I told you...it's gonna fall" .
We have thousands of sisupals roaming in Nepal but I don't know who is Krishna or who is counting. Ironically, most of the time sisupals keep counting , as they please, sins of other sisupals but what they do withose counts? Flush down the toilet as soon as they get to win and grab the positions and benefits those recently downed sisupals did. Now, the loser sisupals start counting. This cycle is going on for a long time. Tamashe janta lai prajatantra ko paath banta hune gari padhaune ti sisupals afai arajak chhan. Bhate haru.
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 05:44 PM
Sparsha: You don't win because you defeat somebody but win anyway when someone is defeated.
Win and defeat: It reminds my son's explanation why he was 2nd in the exam, and I asked "why don't you study hard and become first in the class?". He said: "its not I don't study, that boy studies more than me. Kasto padcha tyasle. I can be first if I switch to another school, he switches to new school. " In today's competitive world,
winning is a relative thing. That is why Americans came up with grading system over percentile system of ranking students. Well, when you rank students, with Grades A to F, it is worthless to compare the student of last year and this year graduates: more like internal competitions. In grading system, its hardly matters how well you did in the exam, it matters how worst was in others answer sheet. Thus, in grading system, you take your rival to an worst restaurant "south asian restaurant that has hot spicy food: pay his "BILL" " Next day you will have good grade. Unfortunately, its true.
In Sajha.com also now we are competing to win by poisoning others stomach, make him less competitive. Our competitions are like Nepali Players who are gold medalist in SAARC game, can not even qualify in Asian Game, and worst is in Olympic game? I am wondering whether our players win at SAARC games not because they are good, but, because their rivals are not really worth. ................ I really hate when we have such derogatory competitions.
HG
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 06:56 PM
Najar,
I could well have requested Dipak Dai to come visit this site, and share his comments here. I would like to think that I do have enough of influence upon him (and many
other PUBLIC individuals in Nepal) to make such a request.
But, you know what, I thought about it calmly, and decided AGAINST it.
That's because the whole PhD issue that both Biswo and Paschim have pounced
upon and are elongating the discussion for is so TRIVIAL and UNIMPORTANT (in the
larger scheme of things), that I have decided it's not worth abusing my whatever little influence on Dipak Dai to request him to come here and settle these people's
suspicions.
If they want to settle their suspicions about DG's whatever credentials and remarks,
let these people do their own homework and convince themselves.
Why should it be my tauko-dukhai?
That's my attitude.
This PhD-refusal issue is important -- for reasons best known to themselves -- ONLY
to Biswo and Paschim, and NOT to me, while others in this public forum are justifiably and understandably curious about the CONTEXT behind DG's that throw-away remark.
Strategically, once Dipak Dai -- a Minister -- comes here, there will be, given the nature of Internet postings, lots of other related and unrelated questions too, and pretty soon
Dipak Dai will be spending all his time answering anonymous questions and charges on sajha.
We all saw that when Kunda Dixit visited this site last year -- there were more questions
than answers, and our Biswo -- who is defensive to the nth degree, and is more heat than light -- was NOT satisfied with Kunda Dai's answer, and kept doubting him EVEN after Kunda Dai had shared his version of the then story.
What guarantee is there that such a thing would NOT happen again?
Paschim has grandly taken the responsibility to find the truth and nothing but the truth on our behalf. Let him fulfill his promise to the sajha community, and deal with that.
Meantime, I continue to have very high respect for Dipak Dai, and wish him well in his new venture as a Minister.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| LamjungKunchha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 08:03 PM
I am glad it is starting to take a turn into a viable intellectual discussion topic rather than some public figure lied or not lied about something. But I did learn something about Sajha forume though. I realized it is very unforgiving. Slip once, then fire of cremation will be more soothing than the wraths of sajha critics. But hopefully these few sentences did not resurrect the already dead issue.
Biswo your stand against the King G's move should be applauded. It may be attractive to romanticize the king as the saviour who is going to save us from the current diaspora but the reality is far different. Yes, many of our political leaders were corrupted but one thing they were not, they were not nominated based on some one in the Narayanhiti's like or dislike. They were elected with majority of votes. For whatever reason they were granted the permission by huge chunk of people to rule over them.
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 08:21 PM
Hahoo guru ji,
Winninng CAN be relative, I agree. But look at this: team A is playing football final match against team B. A scores 1 goal whereas B remains at 0. Now where is relativilty here? A won. Period.
However, I was not calling Biswoji a loser. I have high regard for Biswoji. I am not sure whether you got that point.
Lamjungkanchha ji, Biswoji is indeed an impressive fellow. I try to learn something from his every posting. BUT that does not mean I agree on everything he writes. Disagreement does not necessarily indicate disrespect or enimity. I am not sure how romantic it is to think “king is going to save us". Whether nominated or elected corrupt is corrupt. Just by being elected a corrupt can't be a saint.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 08:45 PM
One thing that is getting more and more clear is that:
Whatever one thinks of the King's move -- which I, living and working in Nepal, have realistically and very, very reluctantly come to accept (see my reply to Jilkai kalyan earlier in this thread), and eagerly hope his move is a TEMPORARY (how temporary, I don't know) assertion of undemocratic authority BEFORE peace and elections happen in Nepal -- one can be pretty sure that Nepali democrats living afar, and safely throwing their "yesto hooonooo parnay. thiyo; testo hoon.noo parnay.thiyo" kind of reality-denying statements are becoming more and more irrelevant in the larger democratic calculus of Nepal.
Unless these democrats are willing to directly put themselves in harm's way, take
risks on behalf of democracy, their subtle and not-so-subtle chest-thumping that they are ideologically pure means NOTHING, absolutely nothing.
Babu Ram too, for instance, claims that he is ideologically pure, as far as his particular ideology is concerned.
Hence, this myth of ideological purity is over-rated.
In politics -- as that famous American philosopher Richard Rorty said in a public lecture in Kathmandu last year -- only legislative, tangible victory counts.
He said that in the context of explaining the paradox between the incredible prevalence of [ideologically pure] leftist scholars in college and campuses in the US and the the paucity of their influence on in the domain of legislation.
Since then, I, for one, have been reading up a of Rorty's stuff and have become increasingly interested in Rorty's syle of PRAGMATIC approach to doing and
discussing politics.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:09 PM
Sparsha: But look at this: team A is playing football final match against team B. A scores 1 goal whereas B remains at 0. Now where is relativilty here? A won.
The football played (opening ceremony) between that african country and France is an example of what I was trying to refer. Zidane, bichara of the whole series, could not do well (he even did not play on the very first game), and their opponent got the advantage. .......... Well, world record breakers in olympics are real heros who really win. (I am not telling here whether Biswo or Ashu is winner, I am just referring a general remark, lets not compete in that way. I never make wrong ugly comment on any one, I just put my comment / analysis. Rest its readers whether to accept or twist or reject my analysis. I just leave things "asosthama hatohata". My main point is "lets not become victim or lets not victimize indulging ourselves in .... such kinda competition. Lets win fairly, more importantly, lets win the way it happens in PokeMon cartoons. As you might know, the speciality of PokeMon is they Pocket Monsters are like Parlimentarians of developed society, who bring new issue and discuss and discuss, finally, come to a point and "no one really wins, in fact, every one wins", and it (the reviewer) is said that it is therefore one of the best cartoon ever made for kids and its not only entertaining but, its also educational, because it teaches kids to "agree to disagree", and you don't have to win all the time. Well, we guys here also have the same motive I guess? Our aim, if I am not wrong, is to make nepali society a better than before our fore-parents had, so we must be trying to come to some better end through discussions and discussions:
For me, who spends a lot of time in learning the mechanics of nature: why material behaves this and that... finally, why it fails. What should we do to make everything fail together i.e. corollary, nothing fails early immatured. I can see quite good resemblance between what I do everyday here in computer simulation "numerical simulation of 2nd to 4th order differential equation". In fact, at macro level all natural pheonomenon can be explained, but, in micro level every individual has different behavior, I refer it: "material imperfection" i.e. in human psychological and mental differences. If all individual elements of society are statistically equallly good, then, failure starts because of "material imperfection, at individual level: e.g. some peoples are very cool, others are very much short tempered .... the global failure is due to expansion/propogation of such failure at individual level ... when one fails, it transfer to another ... that also fails and it continues ... if you can not reinforce it..... then, global failure occures... ". This is what I do here everyday, I play with elements that you can call it human, I call them in my paper as sand or clay particles .... or steel or concrete or rock ... They have quite good similarity when they make a mass: society.
In Nepal, in 1996, BRB's heart and brain were broken when he lost election. (it was at that time, at individual level: material imperfection. BRB was different element, at micro level of society. But, he transferred his failed feelings/angers to antoher ... it expanded ... propogated ... Nepal govt. could not reinforce the failures on time, now it failed like a slope fails in rainy day? The failure of krishnavir in Prithvi highway, was not sudden, it started probably from top where water percolated inside the microfissures... and our engineers in Road Department could not reinforce or detect it, and it triggered in such a way, it killed peoples, it obstructed vehicles, hampered economy in national level. Well, I suggested to one engineer in Road Department that you just wrap the slope with a few plastic sheets, especially along the corners .... and gradually find some solutions .... I don't whether he understood or not .... but, Krishan vir created problem again and again. Our problem is that we don't try to understand the root level mechanism.... If Deoba had tried to listen, to BRB at that time, .... and later several time, they got some hints that something could trigger .... Well, it seems neither they have good surgeons nor they had good diagonisticians...(chk spl.) ... to detect the quality of the material and variance of the material. They used the same old thum rule "who spent more time in jail" to study the risk of failure of slopes: /nepali society ... we are passing through such bad situation. Now, they are hoping to have opponents to suffer stomachache. Girija enjoyed when Deoba had stomach problem ... ....
One thing we should remember from that Dutch story, where a kid inserted his hand inside the hole when he found water was leaking... He saved the country, and later honored. Do we have such vision? We hear quit a lot: Think globally/ macro things, and act locally / micro level (i.e. improve the error involved at material production level). All road goes to Rome. All phenomenon can be explained by 2nd order laplace equation or forth order diffusion equation, only matters is the local boundaries.
Sorry to be long. I am in daily biz. of explaining mechanics of nature. For me sand and a human looks very similar. ....Both are individual elements of nature, both when come closer make a lump..........
....
HG
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:11 PM
Now, what's up with this price hike on petrol and LP gas?
Govt. rejected NOC proposal on price hike and asked NOC to review its proposal then within 24 hours NOC pees on cabient's rejection and hikes price. Nautanki drishya ek ho ki keho?
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:12 PM
Oh! its time for party. I as an element of the party, the party won't get success. We are going to have MOMO Party... Great ...........All Nepalis around here are sitting together.... I have to rush.... I brought Kimchi, the Korean Achar... and that will reinforce the party.... hehehe...
Aru Pachhi!!
HG
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 09:19 PM
"Our aim, if I am not wrong, is to make nepali society a better than before our fore-parents had, so we must be trying to come to some better end through discussions and discussions.."
Guruji,
Yeah. ho la ho..tyo chahi ho. Desh ko dasha din dinai bigridai gayo...afno desh ho maya lagchha...ke gare sudhrinchha hola dasha desh ko jasto lagchha....aba Trikal ji lai dekhauna pani khai deshko janma miti, time milauna dasha sudharna bhanda garho hola...
Anyway, you right Guruji. I want to see peace returning to our beloved Nepal. I want to see my Nepal and fellow Nepalis prosper. I want the whole world no notice our Nepal with immense regard.
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| Kalanidhi |
Posted
on 22-Nov-02 10:58 PM
Ashu,
What a BRAG!!!!
First of all, let’s review what you wrote originally.
"Dipak Gyawali's career (trained in the former USSR as an engineer and at Cal Berkeley as an economist and, by his own account, refused to complete a PhD) and his varied intellectual interests have long fascinated, and even inspired me -- though I do NOT share all his views."
Here is my comment: this is supposed to be the description of his career from your point of view. Isn’t it? Within a sentence, you enormously RATTLED about his academic background stating – he, by his own account, refused PhD from Berkeley. I think this is a sheer lie and you’re painting his career with black spots. You could have focused your exaggeration on his work/activities and contribution for the country, instead of blabbering about his refusal to PhD at UC, Berkeley.
It reveals that you have a tendency to evaluate people (intellectuals) by standard of universities/colleges they attended. I think that’s not the way you should assess people; you have to look at how he/she has handed out his life for the country.
Just to let you know the fact; I am also going to UC Berkley as a PhD student. After this controversy in Sajha about DG, I asked few professors, who had been affiliated with the department of economics for numerous years, and they didn’t know him at all.
Kalanidhi
UC, Berkeley
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 12:33 AM
kalanidhi, UCLA bata UC Berkley sareko? la la badhai cha.. congrats...
look at how this thread has changed its course:
first, there was a heated discussion on PhD
then, PhD issue was set aside to examine whether or not the King's move was constitutional and the recently formed cabinet legitimate.
then, back to personal attacks
then, again on the "broader" issues (sideling the original issue being discussed)
then, when everyone ran out of topics to discuss and/or tired of their suga-ratai, back to PhD and "bashing" each other for their views
then, each poster started labeling others who did not buy their views as feudals, undemocratic.
then again, back to PhD issue by some of the people who get free enetertainmnet from the heated debates for no reason whatsoever.
and
the funniest and most important thing:
all the educated people falling in the trap laid by the people who just wnat them to fight and enjoy the show.
gajjab cha ba!!!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 01:57 AM
Kalanidhi,
The day after Dipak dai was sworn in as a Minister, newspapers in Nepal carried his
short bio.
I don't know about you, but I like the fact that a Berkeley grad is now running
Nepal's Water Resources ministry. I just hope that -- from what I know about Dipak Dai and from what I know of him in person -- he lives up to my and many others' expectations, and that does what he can do as a Minister DESPITE the constraints.
That is why, I continue to wish him well, and want him to succeed, and am rooting
for him. (And no, I am happy where I am, and I don't expect to land a job at the Water Ministry myself; so my words of praise are genuine and are offered to Dipak Dai in a public forum without any ulterior motive.)
I am glad to note that there are others posters here who too think highly
of Dipak Dai oin their own ways, and that's great.
As for that PhD-refuse garay ko remark, you guys are, by now, more than FREE to interpret it in any way you want to portray me as this and that.
And that's fine.
I, for one, am at complete peace with the fact that:
Just as Dipak Gyawali can be a lightning rod for many people in the Water Resources sector who simply hate his guts, I can be, on sajha, for better or worse, be a lightning rod for some people who have come to hate my guts, and are willing to make a
mountain out of a molehill of a remark.
And that's fine too.
That's the kind of price I am perfectly willing to pay -- WITHOUT making excuses and WITHOUT being defensive -- for being very visible and for being very provocative,
and making people like you think enough to use a pseudonym to share your anti-Ashu remarks here in this public forum, and still be able to reply to you in a tough but civil
tone.
Thank you.
oohi
Writing allows me to clarify my thoughts, beliefs and ideas . . . to myself."
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| kalanidhi |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 02:40 AM
Ashu,
Thanks for your explanation. What you totally forgot here was grasping the core of what I implemented in this thread. I solemnly have nothing against Mr DG. He was indeed a great intellectual person, who I was also personally influenced by, because I grew up in the same locality where he developed his cerebral aptitudes.
What I am talking about here is the assertion that you’re making about DG. I think one shouldn’t evaluate people (intellectuals) by standard of universities/colleges they attended. Rather, he/she should assess people by looking at their involvement in the society of a country. Repeat- "You could have focused your exaggeration on his work/activities and contributions for the country, instead of blabbering about his refusal to PhD at UC, Berkeley."
I think you got the wrong idea of my proclamation. When you started your thread, you initiated with *off beam* statement that deliberately/ fortuitously mislead your opinion. That’s what I think.
Kalanidhi
UC Berkeley
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| kalanidhi |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 02:42 AM
Isolated Freak,
I didn't really want to reveal my secret identity here. But, being a student of UCB, I couldn't resist myself, thus I came out from taciturn background. And, there’s no personal attack here, rather there has been the issue of fraudulent to the Nepali people by feign elements.
Kalanidhi
UC Berkeley
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 04:23 AM
Dear all -- I have today received a detailed second email from the Nepali Minister for Water Resources, Dipak Gyawali, again in a personal capacity. But he has now approved the summary of what I read as his private clarifications to me which I sent to him for verification yesterday; has provided extensive supplementary information for public use as I see fit; and given me full consent to circulate part of his clarifications publicly.
To do full justice to Mr. Gyawali and the gravity of the issue at hand, do give me some more time to allow me to present, as I promised here on Sajha, his clarifications in the most clear, detailed, honest, verifiable, and readable manner.
I am quite confident that with what I will post within the next few hours, after done with some personal weekend commitments, the issue of Mr. Gyawali and a claim attributed to him can be laid to rest conclusively.
Until then, dhiraj rahaun!
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| RBaral |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 06:46 AM
One thing is haunting me. with the unlimited resources available to DG, how he DID become unable to visit this site, how he did become unable to remove the technical difficulty.
Though DG could be safely assumed that time did not permit him.
I would like to see him effectively contributing to the nation, though
Namaste, Rishi
Hahooguru - Namaste to you from a fellow Pokhareli.
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 07:05 AM
I think Rishi ji 's comment is very noteworthy. It seems DG is a personality who can handle computer very well, opposite to many in the current cabinet. Why not we make a joint request to Deepak Dai to visit sajha.com frequently in a section that San can create for his use. e.g. he can visit once a week for half hour or so and teach a new trend to his fellow politicians that internet is a place where they can directly reach to public or their supporters while seating in their own room. Save a lot of time. We don't have any cabinet members who had ever reached to public directly from their room using internet. If Paschim can convince him to take this advantage and become the first Nepali cabinet member to use internet, that will also be one great service to country. We need to start from somewhere and it might be a good time.
What San should be careful in creating a space for him?
1. First avoid misuse of words or foul languages. So, we need a group of moderators who only trim the foul languages and accusations without enough data or facts.
2. The moderators should compile the questions raised by participants, ask the writers them as short as possible, so that he can save time in reading. I mean all questions directed to him in that period, should be precise, altu faltu guff or background should be removed to make it precise, as a minister we should not create situation to waste his time here more.
3. Keep the section very warm and friendly. No personal gali galoz, a step forward to attract more political leaders to internet forums so that they will be accessible via internet, that is the best way for we people to reach them and avoid hurdles... What I mean is we should be descent. Well, registered users with verifiable name and address can be exempted of moderation, a gesture to authentic and moral responsibility that Paramendra was raising here. I mean those who come up with verifiable address should remember that in future they will have to pass through scrutiny when they become public figure in future. Every old men or women were kids in the past. So, be responsible, your turn is coming and what you said in the past will be carried over in future.
HG
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| khai_k_Vanu |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 09:25 AM
Waiting for Round II, Paschim post it soon!
Possible Scenario:
Ashu: You see I was right and you were wrong.
Biswo: You see I was right and you were wrong.
Ashu:.....................................................
Biswo:...................................................
Ashu:..................................................
Biswo:.................................................
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 06:18 PM
That is what POCKET MONSTERS were doing in PokeMon and it had $6billion biz. in 2000. Our PokeMon @ Sajha.com, the Pikachu(s) are good, they are all having good points all most all the time, and as statistics say, there is nothing perfect, nothing is 100% reliable i.e. risk free, well evereything is bounded by "double quote: conditional". Lets not try to judge who won, here they should not be on who won, it should be on "what is right, what is wrong: irrespective of who say it".
HG
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 08:57 PM
As per Jayahos-ji's sensible suggestion from the other thread, "Minister Gyawali Responds", I post below for purposes of Sajha record his verified clarification over a disputed assertion attributed to him:
--------
I convey below the gist of Minister Gyawali’s clarification, which he has read and verified, and thus can be interpreted as a public clarification over a claim attributed to him publicly:
1. Mr. Gyawali says that three of his professors at Berkeley "wanted" him to continue into the PhD program. The three professors had interests in the following topics, a) arms control (he says he spoke Russian fluently and this was before Gorbachev's Glasnot had taken full swing), b) Society & Technology, and c) “Coevolutionary" development economics.
2. Mr. Gyawali did not name the three professors who wanted him to do a PhD, but has informed as a note of personal interest to me that one of them, Professor John Holdren, has since moved to Harvard University.
3. At Berkeley, Mr. Gyawali says he declined to (formally) pursue these (informal) invitations from his professors.
4. He says he has "no idea" if that decision to not pursue those informal invitations can be called a "refusal".
5. He says his main reasons for not pursuing those informal invitations were the following:
i) He was always intent and committed on coming back to Nepal.
ii) He felt he already had the "tools" to get on with his career with two degrees -- a professional engineering degree (MSc in Hydroelectric Power Engineering from Moskovsky Energetichesky Institute in Feb 1979) and Berkeley's MSc in Energy and Resources (although the Fulbright identification during selection was "resource economics").
iii) He felt he did not need a PhD because he did not intend to teach. He quips that he thinks he is a very bad teacher, but a very good lecturer. He says he then came back to join HMG's Electricity Department (which had then become the Nepal Electricity Authority in his absence), worked for a year fighting within, before deciding to resign and take his fight outside in 1987.
iv) He didn't foresee spending another 5 years doing a PhD out of Nepal at a time, that he says, was the most exciting period (in hindsight) in Nepal's water history, which included Tanakpur, Arun-3, Mahakali, etc. He further says he instead chose to spend a shorter time on a fellowship at the East-West Center to finish a monograph, which is being brought out by Zed Books in January 2003 under the title "Rivers, Technology and Society".
v) By staying on in the US, he would have missed the 1989 "blockade" and the Jana Andolan (he was arrested for one night at the TU arrest of intellectuals). He says his first public article against the $5000/kW Arun-III (as opposed to what Hari Panday and Hari Bairagi Dahal have now actually built as the Piluwa Khola project in Arun Valley at $1200/kW in Nepali currency) was published in 1990 immediately after the restoration of multiparty democracy.
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| M.P. |
Posted
on 23-Nov-02 11:43 PM
Paschim wrote:
"As per Jayahos-ji's SENSIBLE suggestion from the other thread......."
Hmmm...Jayahos,
bujhe aafailaai hai :)....ki mero gidda ko aankhaa bhayera dherai bujhyaa ho?
M.P.
PhD offered student
Mahendra Ratna Bahumukhi Campus
Tahachal.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 24-Nov-02 09:00 AM
R Baral wrote:
"One thing is haunting me. with the unlimited resources available to DG, how he DID become unable to visit this site, how he did become unable to remove the technical difficulty.
Though DG could be safely assumed that time did not permit him."
*******************
R Baral-ji,
Minister Gyawali can visit a Web site, read the contents of a discussion, and not
post anything by himself. :-)
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 27-Nov-02 02:47 PM
"...Mr. Gyawali also says he tried to open this thread, but couldn't for technical reasons.."
I am impressed. If the guy comes to Sajha.com, the premier Nepali online community visited by Nepalis all over the world, I am impressed. Hi there, Minister.
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 27-Nov-02 02:54 PM
"...Nepal will be destroyed if we don't have a Madhesi PM as soon as possible. He is glad that Mandal is DPM. How clean Mandal is? ..."
Yes, Nepal needs its first ever Madhesi PM. And I am glad it just got its first ever Madhesi DPM. As for Mandal, he is a public figure, subject to public scrutiny just like any other. Go for it.
"...He wants more madhesis in the cabinet. .."
Madhesi hum lenge sau mein pachas.
"..."democracy does not mean anything unless people are interested in democracy 101. Who goes to sleep hungry 10 out 30 days in a month is more interested in food than in democracy." ..."
Your patronizing attitude astounds me. It is not democracy versus food. It is democracy for food!
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| batauli |
Posted
on 27-Nov-02 07:42 PM
Paramendra, I don't see why could be so thrilled when a "madhesi" is picked and placed.. the practice you oh so abhor....
Paramendra: And I am glad it just got its first ever Madhesi DPM.
batauli
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| bipin |
Posted
on 27-Nov-02 08:12 PM
Paramendra:
What's up with Mandal kicking out Triphati?
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| HahooGuru |
Posted
on 27-Nov-02 09:13 PM
Bipin: if you are not Madheshi, then, Paramendra ji might answer " thats none of your biz. Its our internal matter". My Guess re kya.
Am I right Paramendra ji?
HG
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