| Username |
Post |
| Tropical |
Posted
on 29-Nov-02 10:11 AM
The weapon inspectors found nothing at the iraqi sites. Given the fact that the yankee's want desperately to find an excuse to denounce Iraq and an excuse for their stance against Iraq the UN team found nothing in Iraq.
I also don't find it appropriate for America to go about trying to "kill" everybody and anybody against it! As if America stand for all things good and all else is evil and bad. This is a very difficult thing to digest being a foreigner in this country.
I am suspecting that if the economy goes further down then the white supremacists will start attacking people of different races and may rememble the Nepal scenario where people are today killing their neighbours.
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| rabi |
Posted
on 29-Nov-02 12:03 PM
Weapons inspectors did not find anything UNTIL NOW (a week or so since they started).
Every nation believes that it stands for all things good. At least those in power do. I am inclined to suspect that cmparatively US may be better of the evils that all nations can be. No doubt powerbrokers in the US can be arrogant and disparaging of others and their priority is to look after US interests (mainly economic).
However, it appears to you that US is trying to "kill everybody". It appears to me that rise of extremely violent Islamic zingoists dreaming to have a kingdom of the "last prophet" is the deadly cancer of the world today.
About your analysis:
worsening US economy->white supremists killing other races->civil war in US
I pass the opportunity to respond.
I have plenty of issues with many US policies, but I am also not looking forward to a worldwide Islamic hegemony. I also have doubts about George W and the wider clique itching to invade Iraq.
However, here's a question for you that I sometimes ask myself: if the world is to have one superpower, which country would you want: Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Japan, Germany or any other nation?
If given the kind of monopoly the US enjoys, would you think any other country would behave better than the US does right now? The US at least pretends to promote equality, tolerance and freedom, and occassionally does live up to its promise.
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| Nepali Kanchi |
Posted
on 29-Nov-02 01:07 PM
I am not fully sure what UNMOVIC is doing in Iraq right now, given that Saddam's declarations of all weapons have to be handed in by December 12th.
So whatever they find right now, doesnt matter, if by Dec 12th,Saddam states it on paper. After reading Saddam's declaration , then only the real search for weapons will begin, or rather search for material breach of the declaration!!!
I think USA will cause a huge blunder if they unilaterally decide to attack Iraq without the UN Security Council's support. Then, other countries will also want to invade/attack thier "problem countries", and what is USA gonna say then?
Hopefully, Iraq will fully cooperate and disarm, then they are gona be another Cuba! Who knows.
Afnai desh ko raat din chinta garera bacchu, arka ko desh ko pani kina kina ho, ali ali maya lagcha bhanya !!!
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 29-Nov-02 02:06 PM
tHANK YOU rabi and Kanchi for responding!
Who says american is superpower and in what terms? Basically America is piggybacking on the White people's boys club. Why should we accept any superpower for that matter?
You call them a superpower because they are able to kill more number of people than anybody else? Isn't that a numbing feeling?
Future of the world should not be a big bully subordinating every body else into submission. No country should be too powerfull. Because as we have seen in every case in history be in a person or a country an elated status gives them a feeling of invincibility which will make them do unspeakable damage to those around them and those who cross their path.
Iraq has already disarmed to the point where countires around it can dominate that country for many decades to come. While pakistan was allowed to make nuclear bombs and india was warned not to interfere with pakistan's monsterous ways the US continues to be the cause of thousands of children in Iraq every year.
Unfortunately we don't get to hear of the suffering of the sufferers!
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| rabi |
Posted
on 29-Nov-02 04:08 PM
Tropical:
"Who says american is superpower and in what terms?"
We don't choose superpowers on our wish. Being a "superpower" is not a status we bestow on some country on our discretion. On the basis of economic and military might, superpowers claim to be superpowers. Your not calling them superpowers does not change a thing.They will act like superpowers.
"Future of the world should not be a big bully...No country should be too powerfull "
I can romanticize a superpower-free world of equal nations. That's just my wish and your wish. I was talking about what it is today, not what it should/could be. In this second year (third actually) of the 21st century the fact is that the US of A happens to have the might to be more equal than any other nationsn and it's not shy of asserting that might.
Suffering of Iraqi people is a tragedy. But their ruler shares as much blame as the US obsession with the ruler in Iraq.
I agree with your assesment that US can be a bully and that we have a right to dream about a "superpower" free world. What I am saying is not everything US does is evil. And though the US policy towards the rest of the world is often not in the best interest of every nation in the world, I am just hypothesizing that given as much might, other nations may actually make the world much more miserable than you think US is making right now.
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 29-Nov-02 05:01 PM
Rabi ji good insight,
Actually you don't have to hypothesize about what happens when another nation become a superpower stead of US. Cause Britain was there before not one century before. The Great Britain enjoyed the power of being the number one killing machine before US.
Some people may say that what Britain did in its Super power days were all good. But then as we know history belongs to the winner. We don't reflect much on those thousands of lives that the former "killing machine" snuffed! Neither will we ever know those civilizations that were converted into the so-called civilized forms.
The people of this world can become elephants and decide if the lion can be allowed to continue to monopolize the forest and choose which diet it wants? A provience today, a country tommorow?
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| rabi |
Posted
on 30-Nov-02 09:01 PM
Tropical ji:
"... if the lion can be allowed to continue to monopolize the forest and choose which diet it wants? A provience today, a country tommorow?"
You seem to be awfully distrustful and critical of the US. In your observation, is the US really behaving that irrationally? All the time?
I agree that many of the US foreign policies and actions are flawed (as it appears to the rest of the world)...but what are the top 10 problems in the world today, and what role does US play in alleviating or aggravating those problems?
Do you think the US is the root of all evils in the world today? Would the world magically become a better place today, if the US suddenly became only as powerful as, say, Greece? Or if any other nation became much more powerful than US? Do you think all the countries will live togeter peacefully everafter? Do you think the US has any value as a stabilizing force in the world (albeit at a price)? On the whole, is the US contribution to the world positive or negative?
I can't pretend to know answers to all the question above, though I have opinions on some. Just some questions for you to ponder as you enjoy the tropics. :) I happen to be fighting cold in the maligned mainland.
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 30-Nov-02 11:20 PM
mr. Rabi,
Today two US army personnel were allow to go free in South Korea. They had commited a crime. They had raped some innocent korean girl.
Where ever there is power there is corrruption. Specially unchecked power. Where there is no fear of repercussion humans have commited untold misery on fellow humans.
Thank you for agreeing that US foreign policies and actions are flawed (as it appears to the rest of the world)...
And I have not said that US is the cause of all evil. Please do not try to put words in my mouth. I am not an extremist as you want to portray me. I am a peace lover and justice seeker.
Well what do you think?
On the whole, is the US contribution to the world positive or negative?
This depends on what you think is the aim of your life. materialism, is it?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 30-Nov-02 11:38 PM
Tropicalji,
I am not sure what you are sympathizing with : Iraqi people or Iraqi dictator.
Saddam is a scourge for Iraq and rest of the world. A few days ago, I read about the draining of wetland around Tigris river in New Yorker. An entire area of wetland was drained, poisoned, and its residents killed because they sympathized with a Shiite mutiny against Saddam. Saddam's quirk is another mysterious and funny thing: to celebrate his victory in referendum, he freed all prisoners (except spies of USA and Israel). Hmm.
It is good to oppose America's hegemonist approaches, but by siding with Saddam? That's wrong way to go. We shouldn't hate someone so much that we love Mr Evil himself.
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| rabi |
Posted
on 01-Dec-02 01:03 AM
Tropical ji:
Take it easy....pleeeease! :)
I was not trying to "put words into your mouth", but merely trying to gauge the extent and understand the basis of your distrust of the US. That's why the statement you quoted was framed as a question in my post. We are just trying to have a dialog, right? I am just trying to find out what is it that you see that I don't see that prompted you to make the remarks you made.
"Today two US army personnel were allow to go free in South Korea. They had commited a crime. They had raped some innocent korean girl."
I don't have full facts to comment on this (the judge or jury did), but I have just this to say:
Of all the problems facing the world today, US military might and the alleged abuses you obsess and agonize on are the least **I** would worry about. If anything keeps me awake at night, it's the security situation in Nepal, in the US and in the rest of the world. If there is any danger I see in the world in the short or the long run, it's the rise of dangerous Wahhabism in the Muslim world that's out to turn the world into a singular nation of "believers." Being a KAFIR, I am not amused.
As I see it, there was definite cause for the US to be in Afganistan, and probable cause for US to invade Iraq. Though I still think US is rushing to topple Saddam, if he goes, no tears from me. My benefit of doubt goes to the US, not to Saddam.
About materialism being the only positive contribution of the US to the world today...[kapal kanyaudai chhu, khai ke bhanu]... I pass...
My observation: despite obvious tendency to promote its interest before other nations' (can't blame them, can we?), US has been an effective antidote to a long list of rouge leaders and fanatics.
You fantacize about a "superpower-free" world. I dread a lawless world of constantly bickering nations and those who are out to turn the world into "their" utopia (imagine a world with Osama Bin Laden as the supreme leader of the world-a CALIPH; or Mao as the Chairman). At least the utopia US preaches is plausible and livable.
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 01-Dec-02 12:10 PM
Biswo ji,
Isn't it obvious that I am sympathising with the sufferers - the victims. The Iraqi dictatorship is a powerful position and he exploits his power- the unchecked power to kill and maim.
Biswo says:
Saddam is a scourge for Iraq and rest of the world.
You are feeling this because you watch the media and the media protrays him as such.
What do we care. Other countries such as pakistan and china are involved in the murders of so many hundreds of innocent people. They already have the horrible nuclear capability.
America is the only country in the history of the world to have used the atom bomb becoming the cause of the the thousands of japanese civilians. In vietnam they dropped chemicals which destroyed the forests and disfigured the populace there. Apart from that hundrends of women there were raped by the army of the empire. Did I say hundreds. Infact thousands and may be millions. Doesn't this figure simply horrify you? Are you already so brain-washed?
But now america has tried to protray itself as a symbol of all things good. That's simply not true. It like every murderer who says that he is innocent.
I am not blaming every american. Infact I appreciate those millions of americans who don't agree with their gov. into going out and trying to kill or rape all those foreigners and becoming thus the dominating power of this world?
Obviously obviously it promotes its interest before other nations. This is ofcourcse natural. I am also saying exactly that. The only danger is if any nation becomes too power it will have no regard for others. And in the name of promoting its interest before other nations it will cause suffering to those innocent people livingin all those "Other" nations.
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 01-Dec-02 12:25 PM
USA today attacked an oil field in Iraq today which used to produce oil in the "oil for food" program under the UN mandate.
mr. rabi it seems you brain could not catch my message. What I am saying is that we should not recognize a supreme power. Be it the Osama clan or the USA clan.
We do not have anything to gain by licking the shoes of any power. No body should be allowed to enjoy supreme power.
And rabi U take it easy tooooooooooooooooo ;-)
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| rabi |
Posted
on 01-Dec-02 01:11 PM
Tropical ji:
Well, we each made our points. I propose we agree to disagree. :)
You can worry about what appears to you to be horrible US atrocities around the world and wish that sinister US will one day no longer be powerful enough to influence the world.
I will worry about the possiblity of religious fanatics and rogue leaders taking over all or parts of the world and forcing us all to think, dress and behave like them...or tossing a few nukes in my backyard for being a non-believer...Or simply the world turning into a free-for-all for assortment of murky forces with political, military, racial or religious agenda.
I theorize that we are all entitled to our own personal brand of anxiety...No?
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 10:36 AM
rabi ji,
The danger of nukes is really not that serious. Infact isn't it true somebody who has already used a nuke is more likely to use it again. Sort of like a killer who will kill again and again.
Actually I am not saying America is evil for there are hundreds and thousands of "sojha sajha janata" just like there are "sojha sajha janata" in every other country. But I do believe that an entity which gains unquestioned authority to do anything will more likely do evil which has been proved by history! Be it the case of Saddam or Bush!
And it may surprise you but I am not anxious or worried at all. The concept of tossing a few nukes is really only media play of the western powers to be. An excuse for furthering their destruction of another land.
So I suggest you not to be so worried or anxious either.
May lord pashupati nath protect you and give you sadbuddhi.
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| Bitchpatroll |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 10:53 AM
Even if they do find anything who the hell is US to come tell your country you can do this and not this. C'mon now it ok for US and its allies to have nuclear warheads and not the rest of the world ? Now thats double standard. If US does not want any one to develop nuclear power then it should stop its own nuclear programs first. Would Us like it if Russia or North Korea for that matter told them to stop it's Nuclear programe? No that would be asking for trouble. I don't see no weapons inspection teams in India or Pakistan ..Why only in Iraq ? Why only North Korea ? We know India and Pakisthan has them. What the hell is United Nations(United Negligible) doing about that ? Here are two countries that are continuelly detonating all these bombs. This is what I do not understand of Georgy Boy and his fuzzy math policy ....
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 11:06 AM
Bitchpatroll what you say is correct.
US is the country which has exploded most number of nuclear weapons and that also above ground. Thus releasing radiation in the environment and causing deadly diseases including "cancer" to unsuspecting victims. US uses deteriorated uranimum even in conventional weapons.
Ofcourse no body can question the supreme power lest he be described as another evil. What a joke! Saddam Huisen in evil but so are those who supported him and supplied him weapons when he was killing his own people and attacking Iran and killing thousands more there. Saddam has been codified as evil only after he went against US interest.
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 11:11 AM
Even today turkey which still killing large number of kurdish people and many other countires including pakistan and china are encouraged to actually carry out their atrocities against the minorities and attack innocent people.
Only after they stop taking command from some big power will they be codified as the "source of all evil".
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| Bitchpatroll |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 11:34 AM
Its was the same when Nepal was trying to buy some arms to upgrade its army to UN standard so our brave Gurkha's would be able to perform up to par when they goto Afganisthan or Lebanon or wherever needed. I remember Bloody Indians makeing abig fuss out of nothing. Just like We did not like Indians telling us what we can buy and what we cannot..its the same with any sovereign nation. What I would like to know is that what is UN and Us govt. doing to stop Pakisthan and India's nuclear proliferation ? We know they have it for sure...when the rest of the world was all quiet..they have been synchronyzing one detonation after another. Are they sleeping when this happens ? This really puzzles me.
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| rabi |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 12:05 PM
Tropical, Bitchpatrol:
In my humble opinion, equality of nations is a noble concept, but a luxury that I can not seem to afford at the present, because it appears to me that rulers of the world today are not equal in how far they will go to further their sacred agenda. Thinking about all the leaders and ideologies of assorted stripes countries have contributed to the world in the past (and present), it does not amuse me to live in a world in which Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and even Russia, India or Israel are free to act on their whim.
What would Maos, Pol Polts, Osamas, Stalins, Hitlers, Mussolinis do differently if they had as much power today as Bush & his cronies? Nothing?
"May lord pashupati nath protect you and give you sadbuddhi."
Thanks tropical for your kindness. I can never have enough of either. :)
Here I stop because I have nothing new to say. Regards to both of you.
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| Tropical |
Posted
on 02-Dec-02 12:18 PM
rabi,
All those countries and many more are even now able to carry out their genocide with america's acknowledgement provided that they bow to american knee and do america's dirty job for them.
In somalia when some US troops were killed the US lashed out at every moving object below on the street from their choppers. Isn't this what pol pot did? Isn't this the ways of hitler. and yet we are blinded by the present. Only in history will they been seen in better light. There are so many examples of atrocities commited by the "sources of all good"
Obviously had you been living at hitler's time you would have appreciated his grandeur.
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