| Username |
Post |
| SimpleGal |
Posted
on 03-Dec-02 08:05 AM
Dear all,
I had an intriguing debate on the phone with my dear bhai on the night of Thanksgiving. The topic wandered from something on family to one on romantic love. And his theory was thus: Love and care do exist, but romantic unconditional love is just an emotion that is marketable.
Well, he is a business major in college, so I first teased him about his tendency to see everything in a "marketable" manner. But being a researcher on emotions, I found it interesting--the marketing of emotions. I remember watching a movie where the boy is a movie fanatic who ruins his academic career for his almost dogmatic love of movies. The father says, "Those are dream merchants, the film-makers. They sell dreams of romance and glory. And fools like you literally buy those dreams. At the expense of the dreams that parents like us have for you." (An approximation of what was actually said)
The above is just one example of the many ways that "dreams," esp. that of romance and unconditional love that almost all of us seek and desire are sold, sometimes deliberately and other times subliminally. I remember my parents telling me that when movies such as "Ek duuje ke liye," "Mughal-E-Azaam" and scores of other chart-busters with their theme of unconsummated unconditional love hit the masses, many people, esp. teenagers, committed suicide. The conjectures are that these people were attempting to identify, and perhaps did share similar experiences in real life, with the characters' plights in reel life. But the point to be noted is that the movies, despite the grave repercussions, minted millions, even from the many who chose to mirror the climactic conditions. I realize that the information is "reported" rather than based on sound statistical information. But I remember reading, in my own lifetime, of similar impacts of the runaway hit "Qayamat se Qayamat Tak." I don't know of similar influences of Hollywood movies--I've heard vague reports on the impact of Casablanca, but I haven't seen the movie, so I'm not very certain of the veracity of the claims.
Again, the suicide reports are just another example of how we as human beings are powerfully swayed into carrying out the actions seemingly endorsed and emotionally impelling in the media, whether movies or books or any other form.
These reported incidents, together with my brother's argument, got me thinking: Is romantic unconditional love truly a "marketable" emotion? Or the "dreams" that the so-called "dream merchants" dangle in front of susceptible human beings (this would include almost all of us, for although indirectly, we are attracted to the allure of those "dreams") for that matter?
In peace.
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| Deep |
Posted
on 03-Dec-02 10:38 AM
simpy hazur,
We are dangerously swinging around abstract ideas and trying to see those ideas from material point of view, I think.
Ideas are abstract but the things that shape or generate such abstract ideas are not necessarily abstract. In fact, most of the time, they are material. Idea of love is responsive or reflective. If it stands by itself it cares less with the idea of "marketable" whatever. But we rarely let it stand by itself. It's us who tag a price or value to abstract concepts such as "love" and in turn we pretend to talk about unconditional love. Both "unconditional" and "love" words are abstract but we have assigned values to those concepts. We define things then turn around and ask what is “it”?.
Yeah, I am not a pasaikologist (psychologist). You are professional and probably know better. Taipani man ma lagya kuro bhandeko….la..jja…
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 03-Dec-02 10:45 AM
SimpleGal wrote with much simplicity [:-}) : These reported incidents, together with my brother's argument, got me thinking: Is romantic unconditional love truly a "marketable" emotion? Or the "dreams" that the so-called "dream merchants" dangle in front of susceptible human beings (this would include almost all of us, for although indirectly, we are attracted to the allure of those "dreams") for that matter?
Interesting. I personally think that emotions are marketable and unconditional love is also a part of that. Actually, we are so influenced by this BF-GF culture portrayed in the moviews that we tend to underestimate ourselves when we are single (and people who are single.. must be a sore loser without any gf/bf ...). This makes us look for love even though we get the life-time supply of love from, our family and "true" friends. However, w e still want that "casablanca" , "mughal-e-azam" and M&B boks type of love. We search for someone who can provide us with that.. and internet florists to publishers to movie makers want to capitalize on our sentiment. they make it sound/look like "uncoditional love" exists with "some conditions" and those conditions being candle light dinners, diamonds, platinum and if nothing else red roses. We fall in their traps, spend all our savings for what? Just to be on top of that W curve, get a false sense of peace, security and belongingness for a while then again getback to the reality.
now, being an IR student, i have started looking at this from more strategic point of view. Love is nothing but an alliance of vested interests, play realpolitik and liberalism for a while then resort back to the realist view of the use of force to break everything apart..
i have no idea what i am writing.. sorry hai...
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 03-Dec-02 12:13 PM
"Romantic love" is definitely NOT an obsessive or compulsive love!
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| Bal Matlab |
Posted
on 03-Dec-02 12:21 PM
Bal Matlab,
Khai sabai love eutai jasto lagcha. Keti agadi keta pachadi. LOVE is blind kya...actually both of them are walking side by side. Ani kehi sip na lage pachi let's die together re..!!! But surely there are lotsa emotions in LOVE, doesn't matter whatever kind it is.
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| Biruwa |
Posted
on 03-Dec-02 06:53 PM
isolated freak ji,
What is IR?
Simps,
Films can't be blamed for the reaction of the viewers just like a beautiful girl cannot be blamed for the teasing and following of the boys behind her. ;-)
Ma pani not a psychologist tara yessso di halya ni! :-)
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| kalanidhi |
Posted
on 04-Dec-02 10:05 AM
Simplegalji,
Just want to share a bacics of Romantic Love.
Romantic love is an attachment process. A process by which affectional bonds are formed between adult lovers, just as affectional bonds are formed earlier on in life between human babies and their parents.
Main elements of attachment theory explain the development of affectional bonds in infancy, and here are translated into terms appropriate to adult romantic love.
It also investigates how the three attachment style personalities (Secure, Avoidant, and Anxious/Ambivalent) differ in romantic relationships.
Secure-confident in self/relationships
Avoidant-detached from one's own feelings and in relationships
Anxious/Ambivalent-apprehensive and distressed with self and in relationships
I know this is not quite relevent of this thread. Still it has some besic elements that one needs to understand in romantic love and relationship.
Kalanidhi
UCB
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| protean |
Posted
on 04-Dec-02 01:09 PM
Simple Gal ,
Interesting point of view. I think you've confounded the issue of conspicuous consumption and ostensibilty with real human feelings that could be and may be real and trascendental.
Ok, let's begin with your analysis of the way you brought up what your brother spelt out. Yes, before men and women used to be attracted by other attributes such as the ability to travel ,be in the jungle, and perhaps others, but nowadays, there are lots of things in the modern society that have been tailored to fit a fast and evasive lifestyle. For example, a woman could take out a man to a fancy restaurant without having to resort to cooking some Biryani or Filet Mignon or Tiramisu and still impress him by her choice and taste in culinary delights. And a man whose voice is like that of a toad (no offence to the toad) could still create a semblance of appreciation of music by taking his lady out to an opera or some rock concert--where there is not much singing effort that is needed. These are the modern developments which we're in posession of and we can opt to utlize them provided that we're resourceful and have some cash in hand.
Yes, they are intial luring techniques where man doesn't have to kill a beast or win battles, and a woman doesn't have to have the skills to tend to all the caring and homely responsibilities, be very artistic while being fertile-- to impress the other sex--as was common in antiquity. [Please note that these are just examples of attracting techniques that I'm mentioning as I didn't live in that era]
Granted that such displays of consumption and techniques of being able to cater and provide to the needs does exist, and have basically been a courting means. This has provided the demand in the service industry, which have as result , thrived immensely.
In the fast paced world, such easy means has given much room for people to be complacent with this attitude.
Even the movies that cater to such notions of love and display(but sometimes that are not real at all) have made millions. That part I agree. But, most movies are a display of things that are not for real, and that's why it's appealing to the majority of the humans ,who do live in real lives and not in fantasia. [ Roman Holiday , a romantic comedy, was different from them, where something real is shown.]
Having said that, I do ,however, I think that real love exists and could be unconditional or reciprocal. Otherwise, why does some highly brillant anc complex (and rich) person falls in love with someone really simple and not very sophisticated (in thinking). Isn't it because the other person can fill what one lack, or be complementary? Isn't it because one is made to see more to life by this other person, and a reason to live?
Or is it just pure strategy to get what one wants? So, why are some really succesful and rich people not meeting and falling with the similar types ?
Why does one sees more to life and love than pure educational merit, riches, and class?
Why do ordinary people (if they have the choice) want to seek adventure to be able to find that someone who they want to be with?
Why do people want to give up their lives for someone?
Why does one feel one meets a soul mate? Because they can provide what they've been lacking and yearning for (emtoitons, alove etc.) all their lives.
I think in business and politics there is strategy. Even in mating there could be strategy. As choosing a partner that can provide both materially and in terms of knwowledge and spirit, could probably result in a more successful generation to arise in the future.
After having said, it is also equally possible that there might not be any strategy in mate choice, and is matter of pure admiration ,appreciation, and love, rather than forming a business or political venture.
In business/politics, attaching to something for pure strategic and material gain makes
sense. People can change their points of view and market themselves well. But, that can take you so far. For example, one can polish one's resume and get a job. To go real ahead in life, one can't just put on a show or do "window dressing". You've to be real good to do so.
More importantly, for a loving relationship to exist and grow, it has to be more than a fashion statement or fitting with the norms. One can't just have money and gimmicks and use that to meet their soul mates.
One has to look inside theie heart and only be really content when one finds someone who can provide that missing link of their lives. Till then, just using these marketing techniques, could make one miss the real love and make them search for more.
I for one think that for everything else one can be Macchiavelian ,but not for love and true relationships.
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| SimpleGal |
Posted
on 04-Dec-02 05:28 PM
Dear all,
thanks for your brilliant contributions. let me first dispel the myth about me. :) It is not my intention to impose or extract psychological viewpoints on or from anyone. :) Since emotions are basically Human, no matter in what guise they may manifest themselves, it does not take a psychological discipline to comment on them. :)
that said, i think kalanidhi's points on the Bowlbian/Ainsworth attachment styles have a very relevant place in relationship formation, particularly in the area of unconditional romantic interpersonal relations. kalanidhijyu, did u receive the email i sent you via sajha networking? :)
biruwaji, your point does carry weight---but doesn't get too far, with all due respect to you dear sir. :) the media in general, and films esp. in our Nepali culture, have effects beyond our wildest imaginations! it is a constant struggle of human beings---this "obsession" with trying to tease apart "reality" from "illusion." genetic explications aside, often times this penchant for things to be either black or white rather than the chinese ying-yang metaphor is what leads people to find themselves on blurry mental terrains, so to speak. most of us, despite our vehement denials, are highly impressionable. socrates said: "there is yet a child in the wisest of us all." but this would pre-suppose that children are the most "primitive" people on the human developmental continuum. many of us would like to believe that, and would be shocked out of our wits to find that children are wiser than we give them credit for!!! anyways, leaving this aside since we otherwise get into a highly flim-flam territory, socrates' "wise" statement would mean that we, fundamentally "childish" and "childlike" by his argument, are therefore impressionable, because isn't that what we adults accept children as? so, with our impressionability, coupled with our vulnerability, the "dreams" that the dream merchants dangle in front of us appear (and perhaps we WANT them to appear) luscious, intoxicating, exhilarating--or placid, mellow, sensuous---and everything else of which dreams are made. and those reported incidents that *may* have mirrored the "illusory" (heck, for them the lives, loves, and limitations and *lacharee* of the characters may have crossed that boundary of blurriness and invaded the realm of the "real") have been a step toward or a lunge for that inviting "dream" that dangles in front of them.
Ok, I feel like I'm not making much sense now. :P
In peace, but really in chaos right now! :)
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| protean |
Posted
on 04-Dec-02 09:31 PM
Would it be the chidlike vulnerability or the impressionability (or both) that would allow us to get the "unreal" to be impressed upon our minds?
Being childlike curious is an essential human desire, isn't it?
Vulnerability would perhaps be upto the situation the person is in ,and the mindset he/she possesses.
Or is it the running away from reality for a brief moment (by not paying a high cost) that gets human to be kind of swayed by the enchanting and charming situations with adorned actors that are quintessential part of the much of the movie industry? Media uses this means to make its dream by pulling people in a dream world away from reality to a far away land, and gets rich as a result.
But, just because one views such scences for a moment doesn't translate to one's life
and the actions in it to be affected.
To be moved during or brielfy after the movie is only human, but to be affected
grossly is perhaps a bit unsane.
But, there is a lack of reality in this depiction that could be present in real lives.
Just like people get dazzled by seeing glitters of city light for some time, though it is ephemeral, the same applies to such movies. They can't be for real. But, in essence ,they don't stay cemented in our minds. Whereas, real life [drama] ,which invlolves emotions, real love, intuition, are not something to be compared with these glitzy impressions (though they may have some semblance of what the mind longs for).
Therefore, people would rather want to go on a vacation to experience the real world rather than sit glued to the TV all day (though this is fun sometimes).
Wow, all this blaberring in the virtual world!!
I need to get out to the real world now.
Simple Gal,
Peace bhayo pachi kasari chaos ?? :-) Or, do they go like Ying and Yang??
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| protean |
Posted
on 04-Dec-02 09:45 PM
unsane=insane
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| batauli |
Posted
on 05-Dec-02 02:12 AM
I think the whole issue can be narrowed down to the "chicken egg" problem.
Did humans first FALL in love and influence art and literature, or did Hollywood show that we could and need to fall in love... and we fell in their traps instead....
mero goruko ku kati takka.....
batauli
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| protean |
Posted
on 05-Dec-02 12:07 PM
Interesting musings, Batauli!
One thing that is for sure is that human beings came to earth way back before hollywood/bollywood was created. In fact, human beings created them. Even philosophy, arts, literature, were manifestations of human zeal, ruminations, creativity, and the longing for the sublime.
Feelings and emotions are quintessentially human!! They've been with us for times immemorable. Movies haven't ,but they could impart some influence to human behavior.
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| lonely |
Posted
on 05-Dec-02 10:22 PM
simpalgal,
good issue indeed.
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