| Username |
Post |
| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 12:18 AM
The Poll "WHO AMONG THE FOUR IS BEST SUITED TO RUN NEPAL TODAY? - Created by sathee_sabaiko@lycos.com" is IRRELEVANT and is designed for Sectarian Feudal Brats.
This is because those who have participated in this poll are either those who have for ages taken unnecessary advantage of the country and poor people in the name of the king and its Sectarian Feudal tradition or these participants are moron who do not think before participating on such poll that undermines the struggle for Demorcracy and economic well-being of the people of Nepal as a whole.
Also, people who take this poll as real will drop into the same basket. Because before any one who take part in such poll at this time of trouble we have to think and ponder on many questions as such:
What do we need in Nepal interms of governing system - Democracy or Sectarian Feudalism that had ruled nepal for centuries?
How about the massacre of the wise and democratic king and is there any conspiracy involved in it with this present king?
How educated is the present king, does he really believe in Democracy?
What kind of personal history the present king has had and how about his son?
How educated his son is and can he be able to live up with the practice of democracy?
Or do you as Nepali despite of coming to study in the first world countries compromise wtih the postition that "anyone can rule the country and do not need to be educated from university or do not have academic descipline"?
If all that is true then I call the sanjha.com or the person or group of persons who posted this poll are either those Nepali who come from with the old thinking habits of the Sectarian Feudal tradition, or is mindless, inconsiderate or is really the moron.
As Nepali we have to be serious that the problem of our county is the king at this point and time. Our suffering from poverty and illeteracy comes directly from those who have had for ages imposed the Sectarian Feudal governing tradition. Our suffering is the Sectarian Feudal monarchical governing tradition.
The question before is whether we want the king as it is or he has to completely think and live with Democracy under the constitution. Also, we want our king to be educated (self-educated or from academic dispiline) or take any moron as our king?
At this time the poll should have been whether we need king as Sectarian Feudal lord or a completely educated Democrat?
Shame on sajha.com who do not think before posting such negative poll.
Shame on those moron who have participated on this poll without thinking.
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| tick |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 12:40 AM
ha ha ..
trying to promote old maobadi agenda...
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| cardinal |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 02:39 AM
king lai vote badhi bhayo bhanera jhoj chalya ho? maobadi lai vote badhi bayeko bhaye chahi makkha parthyau hola hoina?
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 07:39 AM
Tick the royal ass: Think before you write such word "Maobadi" and check the history for yourself. The oldest corrupt institution is the monarchy of Nepal - Shah regime. The establish of this Shah dynesty have had for century unhumanly manipulated the life of the people of Nepal. For example, Prithibinarayan Shah made wars against many other Nepali kings brutally and unhumanly. Many times Shah kings were incapable to rule the country therefore the Rana attocracy was established for 200 years. You have to see the truth from the history which you read in Nepal. History is not a subject to read in a way you worship your gods in an idol, but you have to read lines in between spectically. Got it.
It is not a time for the king. It is a time for the future of People of Nepal and the establishment of Democracy. You asses like Tick and Cardinal may wish to be the slave or opportunists of the feck king who have brutally become the king after the massacre of the wise king Birendra. But for People of Nepal it is the Democracy and economic equal opportunity.
You brats are the childern of those parents who have supported corrupt tradition of the Sectarian feudalism of Nepal. Therefore you do not care morally and intellectually to supprt such a king who have taken the power after the mysterious massacre of the legimate and wise king and his whole family. You are frightened parasites who think whether you will lose the opportunity to sock the blood of the 80% of the population of Nepal who are living under poverty and illiteracy. Got it?
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| Adirondack |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 09:45 AM
who give's a rat's ass to that poll?
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| tick |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 10:43 AM
I know the history and the statistics of nepal and where you fit in as well. This very king is saving nepal from the brats, blood suckers, murders, scums and international dalals. Future of Nepal is the king and the people (multi-party). RAW is trying to do the very thing you are saying...
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| tick |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 10:48 AM
You ARE advocating "old maobadi" agenda, like it or not...
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| tick |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 10:52 AM
psvfji,
I am out of this thread in protest for the profanity you use..
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 11:29 AM
MR/MS Tick: Do not deceive yourself thinking this king is saving the country unless you worship him. He is trying to pave away his past consipiracies, the underground plots with which he has reach this far putting Nepali people in grief and darkness with the massarce. Maoists activities, and so on that Nepali people can never be able to discover unless the history written scientifically with through investigation of all events.
I think people who accept this king without truth and the establishment of Democracy in which the monarchy is under the constitution and the national security is under the Parliament and cabinet, are moron. Most of the moron Nepali are those who live under the unbrella of the king with tremendous Fear. I also think people who think peace will make us happy forever are in selfish ... as of animal instict. For without struggle and revolution or civil war there will be no change in a Sectarian Feudal society like ours.
I am only saying that we have think honestly if you think Democracy is essential for the well being, freedom and equal economic opportunity we have to fight even at the cost of our tradition which we worship, even we have to knock down our monarchy that we are blindly in love with. Rest in the following thread.
http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=9190
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| Vision |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 12:15 PM
I extend my full support to the polls taken. After all, it is what it is, an honest statistics. Some poeple just can't take it.
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| Vision |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 12:35 PM
And trying to influence people otherwise is very undemocratic. ...not to mention calling names.
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 12:51 PM
This certainly is news to me!
If asking for people's honest opinion is not democratic, I wonder what is. There was this time many years ago when one of the newspapers did a poll on who the most popular politician was. The result was Madan Bhandari. All the Nepali Congress wallas got pissed off and wrote angry letters. "How could Sarbamanya Neta, commander of the jana andolan" be less popular than that guy Bhandari, they argued.
So this democracy thing is a strange bird. As long as the verdict is in one's favor, then even the Maoists and dictators of the proletariat have no qualms about being 'demorctatic.' But as soon as the opinion is not to your liking, it is a conspiracy!! So it is easy to be an democrat when the opinion is in your favor. The real test of democracy is when you lose and whether your are willing to respect the verdict of the majority.
I think one of the biggest problem of democracy in Nepal is this attitude: when ever you are in a minority you start closing the parliament, beating up the speaker of the house, and creating havoc on the street...Nepal bandh! Or even worse, you don't win enough to form the government, you go into the jungle and start the people's war!!
When the basic understanding is that we will be democrat if we are the winning side, then no wonder democracy will not work. Just look at America and UK: the Democrats are out of power in US and Conservatives are out in the cold in UK for some time now. But do they do chakka jam, desh bandh, sansadh band or 'people's war' or other anarchist and dictatorial crap? They don't, they abide by the basic rules of the democratic game.
No wonder our country is so badly messed up.
Oh well, back to the nans...
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| Adirondack |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 01:26 PM
Hyaa psvsolutions pani....
ke tyasto jaabo poll ko result ma tension lee ra...? bachcha ma tyo madhise ko pasal bata mithai chorera khako yaada chhaina ? ho tyasai gari sutukka sabai cookies khai diyera poll ko result lai ultauna mili halchha ni....
baru San le thaha napaune gari khana saknu parchha..:-)
ani cookies pachena bhane or San le dekhyo bhane ....." Hajmola Sir"...!
:-)
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| matrixx |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 01:56 PM
psvfsolutions: Why do I smell a rat here? Are you one of those conspiracy theorists who sees King's hand in everything that happens in the country? I wish he was that powerful! Believe it or not that is what the poll says. The king is best suited to rule the country. Take that you undemocratic lout!
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| mirador |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 03:00 PM
>>Just look at America and UK: the Democrats are out of power in US and Conservatives are out in the cold in UK for some time now. But do they do chakka jam, desh bandh, sansadh band or 'people's war' or other anarchist and dictatorial crap? They don't, they abide by the basic rules of the democratic game.
No wonder our country is so badly messed up
Your analysis stinks. Hundreds of years of history of those two countries proves that either you are a ignoramus or a closet Panche. My country is no more messed up than it was decades ago when the king, through a coup d'état, became a dictator.
It would me simplistic and a mistake to blame Prajatantra for all the problems we've had for the past twelve years. Your ignorance of the thirty years of dictatorship breaks my heart!
Power to the people, not the King!
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| Vision |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 06:02 PM
Mirador,
"Your analysis stinks. Hundreds of years of history of those two countries proves that either you are a ignoramus or a closet Panche"
How the heck does years of history of UK and US proves that suva chintak is either ignoramus or a closet panche?
And no one is blaming prajatantra or the king for anything here. The argument here is about the POLLS. Learn to respect the voice of majority whether you like it or not. Just don't friggin' call it undemocratic and start whining simply because it didn't go your way.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 08:06 PM
k ho feri republican chyau-chyau suru?
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| Adirondack |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 08:34 PM
tyahi bhanya IS,
I don't know what's the big deal about that poll result...It's just an online poll..kasaile booth capture garera natija ulto banaideko ni huna sakchha..
I wonder why it keeps bothering our PSVF dai so much....
May be I should mind my own business ...:-)
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| stared look |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 08:53 PM
Poll result is just the pretention. The point more important here is something else. How long are we going to accept unpopular king as our head of state? Constitutional monarchy doesn't mean that the king has the power to sack the prime minister who is the leader of the elected government. Not only that, he has all kinds of power. He is commander in chief of the army. Whole royal family is immune from law. Is that all Nepalis people want? if that is so there is no reason to surprise to see the plight of the people the way it is.
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| mirador |
Posted
on 09-Feb-03 11:36 PM
>>How the heck does years of history of UK and US proves that suva chintak is either ignoramus or a closet panche?
America and UK, if you care to remeber, have had periods of instability. e.g. the civil war, civil disobedience, domestic terrorism, suspension of civil liberties....
It is foolish to compare USA and UK with centuries of democracies and Nepal. It is yet more foolish to blame Prajatantra for the supposedly bigger mess we are in and conclude that it failed because Nepali politicians do not behave like those in USA and UK.
Good night.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 01:21 AM
I do not believe that people alone can preserve the integrity of Nepal. People and the King collectively can only protect Nepal. Look what the "people" have done for 12 years? You still need evidance?
King is not unpopular. As a matter of fact people are looking up to the king more than ever.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 09:11 AM
GOOD MORNING ,MIRADOR JYU/vision jyu
Either you go on your own way or follow the highway the only matter is the destination.you cannot compare a poll of an average with the whole nation although the pollers belongs to the same country.In one way yes, you can compare to the nepal with the mediaval history of the UK and theUSA.british were behaving americans the same waylike the panche wer behaving the ordinary citizen.There was a big war it turns into civil war and also after the british left there was a race war in special places like the philedelphia.
MARTIN LUTHER KING was a product like we use to once have the MADAN BHANDARI.It is a historical evidence that the good doesn't survive longer on the earth.ou can see how simple the birendra was . And how long the cruel rananas survived for.
All the BASELESS HOAX has nothing to do with the NEPALESE CITIZENS.What more information you want PSVFSOLUTIONS JYU AND THE VISION/MIRADOR JYU ?that i believe to have little known.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 09:26 AM
There is a VIRUS symptoms on both RAJDURBAR and the SINGHADURBAR.you need a doctor otherwise it may happen to nepalese citizens as well.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 11:26 AM
Interesting discussions!
Educated arguments with ignorant name calling, noun bouncing and adjective hurling!
tsk tsk tsk!
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| Dr. No |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 04:17 PM
Sitara, the voice of reason
For now and every season
The personification of dignity
A Wake-Up Call! A check on reality!!!
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| stared look |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 04:18 PM
It is very cowardly thought to say that people only cannot protect the integrity of Nepal. How many countries are there in the world which are pure democratic republic? Why can't we protect our soverignty without king? You guys are just paving the way for the king to rule upon you on his whim like our whole generation so far. If you don't want to open your mind, you won't definitely break any tradition and you will stay right there whereever you are.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 05:06 PM
Truth is hard to digest
It looks tough, yet it is sweet if you know how to taste it,
Look at the past and access the present,
The future is an extension of today.
Integrity and sovernity of Nepal is a collective effort from everyone else, including the King. Excluding King from the development and protection of sovernity will be a BIG MISTAKE. I vouch for the collective effort of the King and people. When people cannot decide King can. Look at the maobadi crisis; no one could do anything, who did it? Neither you nor I! So stop begrudging!
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| forget-me-not |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 05:13 PM
NO One..I don't believe that any one of them will work..heheh
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| stared look |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 07:13 PM
I agree with the fact that there should be an institution like monarchy or something else. However, that doesn't mean people should be exploited for genenrations by one family. As long as Nepal is controlled by the king nothing at all will happen in Nepal. We could be soverign nation without king too. India isn't going to attack us becuase there is China up north and China isn't going to attack us because there is India down south. Nepal is already a buffer zone. All money collected from revenue and foreign aids spent on quashing maoist rebels could be spent of development expenses. After we are democratic republic we don't even need much militaries in the country. Police force will be enough for peace and security or nominal number of millitaries will be sufficient. Militaries are used by royal family only for their protection for centuries. Considering everything, the present instituation of monarchy is but just the misfortune of Nepalis people.
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 10-Feb-03 08:19 PM
Howdy nepali educated puppets, the knower elites:
The arguments I put forth against this poll are mainly two:
1. The poll is IRRELEVANT thus undemocratic because it does neither reflect the present political crises seriously nor respects it impartially.
2. The participants who took part on this poll have not thought deeply with his or her reponsibility towards the country and its 70% people who live under poverty and illiteracy - without regarding the consequence of this poll.
If you support the argument that the king is the only one who can handle the present situation then you are out right mistaken and have not impartially observed the present political situation of the country and suppering of the poor and illiterate people. In this regard the supporters of this poll no matter you vote for the king or Maoists or UML or NC you are making the same mistake. But if you particularly and partially support the king then you are obviously either moron or the puppets of Sectarian Feudalism of which nepal and nepal from every walk of life are victims.
Then if you observe the present political situation closely and impartially you will find how much undemocratic moves this king has made that you may justify that for peace it is necessary. But hello - not AT THE EXPENSE OF THE DEMOCRACY - BY THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL WILLFUL ACT. There could way out from such political crises with democratic process than with the power of the will. This will is nothing other than the attitude and motives of the Sectarian Feudalism that is embedded in the brain. Such act reflects how undemocratic it is and in order to come out of such undemocratic will you have to educated, think and respect the freedom for all.
Then the peace has only value if it brings about freedom both psychological and political freedom for humans to exist. Not for sake of the privilleged brats like you and your rich parents in Nepal or dictators like Maoists camrades and thier puppets. It has to come for every Nepali that live in that soi - rich or poor, educated or illiterate. This is only possible if the democratic constitution and rights of people is respected by the authority that is of the Sectarian Feudal tradition or authority that is granted by the people.
The support that king only can handle the present situation of Nepal has no validity what so ever.
1. The king has desolved the democratic cabinet.
2. He has formed the cabinet undemocratically.
3. Most of the political observers have mentioned, including the report of the Amnesty International and World Bank that the king is responsible for the present political inestability of Nepal.
4. The king does not care the international observations, and national established political parties voice and over all does not care the rights of the people of Nepal.
Presently he and his government is deeply confused with cease-fire. Let see how far this goes; it is still to see. Maoists have have the strategies built up already for the cease-fire and their acheivements.
Basically it is selfish thing to seek peace at the expense of the human rights. If you are a democratic mind and you think in this light first you stand for the Democracy that guarantees party system, freedom of the speech and all basic human rights. Otherwise such head of the state or the politicains are selfish and frighten to death or fearful moron.
I personally cannot think the king has democratic culture and thoughts. Therefore, unless he educates himself in this light at this time and point I donot think he can handle the situation.
I do not know how serious is the sajha.com and its puppets, and how serious are the spoilt brats who came to study in the first world with birth rights of prosperity from the network of the Sectarian Feudalist tradition - from the blessings of the idol gods of Puranas and Ramayana - the work of literatures.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 12:06 AM
What type of democracy you are advocating by calling every one names. You have no understanding of basic principles of democracy, yet want to be an advocate?? pathetic. you sound like a maobadi?
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| Padme |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 12:21 AM
psvf, who cares what you think, you are an idiot!!
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| love_bites |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 01:10 AM
Come back to Nepal bro. Psvf. we need fight to revive this Demo(n)-Crazy.
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| Baba |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 04:32 AM
I suppor what pf... said. This type of poling is a mindless act of sajha.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 04:43 AM
Okay psvf,
There are many hoax about king as well.God knows if he did it or not.None of the evidences has been brough to the public.Everything has to do with the news media.Also we have the proof that the monarchy system didnot work well.Neither the parliamentary democracy.We have no hope for the maobadi as well.Because their method of running govt. is too old in the year 2003 or the furhter.
Nepalese People aint in rolpa and rukum only.They are in the US,UK,AUS,german and many other continent.They may satisfy the people in the rolpa but not the people in the other continent of the world.The king in the present days showing his goodness to the people as always.though no-one know inside his heart.
your statistics:
1.There is no-harm if they like the monarchy.Neither concern if they wanted to enjoy in their freedom of their own style
2.As you claim 70% of the people live under the poverty that is also the incorrect statistic.It may have the wrong data.
One cannot say king is 100% right.He has done some illegal activities as you said he form the cabinet undemocratically.But that's very normal in the nepalese politics history.You can see the things even worse than that.
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| prempujari |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 05:53 AM
I hardly THINK;
I do the thinkin' only when I am drinkin' my large cup of coffee.
I am drinkin' coffee right now.
And I am thinking,
"Jati Jogi aaye pani Kaan chira" hoina ra??
(couple-of-sips-of-Maxwell-syndrome)
Prem Pujari!!!
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 05:58 AM
kya ho kya ho?
Dont drink much coffe ppjyu,you may end up stay all night long.
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| prempujari |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 06:08 AM
Raju jyu,
I drink too much coffee so that I can stay-awake all day long and digest the blabbering of my instructors ni. Despite drinkin' 2 large cup-o-coffee, them teachers still make me sleep.
I am thinkin' about switchin' to witches-brew to make me awake!!!
Wake me up
Tell me the truth
I am confuesed
By the lies mammoth
(JPT)
Prem-pujari
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 08:54 AM
Pp jyu
don't hang on mammoth
coffee is so smooth
leave the truth
enjoy your .........ops!
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 12:24 PM
mirador callls me ignoramus and closet pancha!
You know what, you might be right on both counts, although I might have to correct you on the second one - I am not a 'closet' but a full 'cabinet' Pancha! I hope you get that crucial difference right.
Yes, as a pancha, I am very ignorant...did not get past the eighth grade. Had to work hard to support myself and my family. Then I was suddenly made a cabinet pancha by the king. Just as I was about settle down in my cabinet, the bahudaliya bliss came to the country, and I was rightfully kicked out by the intelligent, bright, dedicated lot. The kick was so hard I landed here in the land of the free and the home of the brave. To be exact, in the pantry of this Tantoori Shop!! Working six days a week, eleven hours a day, I didn't have the time, money or the energy to go to any of the nice colleges and universities...unlike the sons and daughters of the Maoist leaders or the Girija and makune panthis.
So what ever I post on this site comes purely from hear-say: while serving tandooris, I overhear the conversations of the big professors, doctors, researchers, and bright students (most of them female I hasten to add with much satisfaction, thanks to the bad food in their dorms!). They discuss the most amazing of things -- literally anything and everything under the sun. Being an 'ignoramus' Gorkhali, I do not understand much of what they say...I just pick up only a few crumbs that fall off their table, literally. And it is these crumbs that I hastily bring here, to strike an intellectual pose...but you all can see through it all...especially the wise and learned mirador.
But to get to the discussion at hand:
Just yesterday, I asked this college senior, who is well blessed both in body and mind, the meaning of 'sectarian feudalism'. She scratched her head, thought for a while, and said "this is the most confused term I have ever heard. Seems to be born of a authoritarian rage masking as high intellectualism."
I then asked her if the parliament shut down, chakka jam and Nepal bands done by parliament oppositions has any comparable instances in the history of English and US legislative process. She said absolutely not, the civil war in England was between parties in parliament but between the parliament and the King...so there was no rostrum gherau and beating of parliament members by other members in London. Oh, beautiful miss, but what about the civil war in the US, surely there are some parallels with the Nepali bandsh here, I pleaded with this dusky damsel whose mind is as sharp as the stilleto heels she walks on. 'No,' she assured me. It was a movement to secede from the US and become a separate country, so the Southies just raised an army to fight it out in the field, they did not close the Capitol or beat the other party in the House, she explained it to me as she sipped the mango lassi from my hand. As you can imagine, I was engrossed by this discourse.
Then I finally asked her about how the Americans and British accept the poll results. It is not a big deal, she says. It is just a random sample, influenced by so many variables that it might not have any direct relevance to the larger universe. So most people in these countries just take it for what it is. I asked her why such a poll on Sajhapur was causing such constipation among a number of highly educated and democratic folks who were crying foul and acting as if the sky was about to fall! She rolled her tongue over her full lips, and just said "cry babies...I would be very suspicious of somebody's democratic credential if they have a problem with an internet poll, imagine what they would do if an election result went against their decision? I fear a dictatorial demagouge lurks behind your learned democrats."
Being an ignorant cabinet pancha, I could not understand much of her analysis, but this much I could figure out: didn't the Maoists took to the gun after they only got 9 seats in the parliament in 1991 - it would take ages for them to win 103 seats before they could form a government and rule! Our dear comrades Prachanda and Baburam could not wait that long, so we go for bullet rather than the ballot...for some reason people just don't seem to trust us whether it is in a parliament election or internet pool...It must be the bloody sectarian feudal monarchy king who is conspiring to make us unpopular, maybe he has bought all the Sajhapuis and the site administrator to rig the poll and booth capture...heck isn't that how the sectarian feudals won the referendum? Yes, our comrade from Kathmandu tells us that the bloody sectarian feudal queen is a witch too, she does her witchcraft to poison the minds of the sojha sajha nepali janatas against us, and now that witchcraft has even over- taken internet Sajhapur. Maybe Microsoft's Bill is also behind this conspiracy, isn't he also one of dem capitalists? That's it!
Anyway, this beautiful scholar, seeing in my eyes the unquenchable thirst for pure knowledge, has kindly agreed to give me private tuition for one semester, all for free. As the tuition progresses, I will share with you some jewels from her wisdom.
By the way, I have voted for the Maoists on the poll as instructed by the party, so I hope mirador and company will upgrade me from ignoramus closet pancha to full cabinet pancha!!
The Party knows best, the rest is conspiracy of the fedual sectarian monarchy!!
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 12:36 PM
Howdy Puppets:
First ask yourself whether 'am I impartially awake?' or 'am I swept by the momentum of mediocrity?'
If you're impartially awake then you take situation seriously even being an individual (meaning: 'what can I do myself alone?') and ponder over the matter responsively.
On the contrary, if you are swept by the momentum of the mediocrity then you decide with your mind (which suppose to think with its freedom) without thinking and follow the momentum like any sheep that follow its herd.
Remember responses of Nepali traditional society that were taken for granted which were examples of utter mediocrity such as: "Satis Sarap, therefore it is our fate?", "Lakshmiprasad Devkota is an idiot", "If you read Geeta you become mad", etc.
You may call me whatever you wish. But as you have the right to post and take the part in this poll so I have the right to defend with my conscience. However this is what I want in terms of Democracy:
1. Multi-party System
2. Constitutional monarcy (meaning completely under the constitution - no hanky panky)
3. National Security under the elected Parliament and the Cabinet.
4. Full human rights to people to defend himself or herself against any act of the govt action that undermines the human rights.
5. Equal economic opportunity for any individual who wishes to fulfil his or her dream of success: not nepotism, no bribing, no hanky panky.
I want complete law bind Nepal and Nepali society. To acheive my goal the Sectarian Feudal model (4 hundred old system) and its practice from the psychology of the govt and people has to be wiped out by the practice of the democratic law.
The erradication of the Sectarian Feudal govt ruling model and mentality in the first place need complete DECENTRALIZATION:
a. Elected Governer or District Chair rule the District = No CDO.
b. The police officers must be the residents of the District = Not sending police officers from Kathmandu to Baglung or Jumla.
c. All legal potions of the district such as Attornies must be elected; etc.
That's political stand for Nepal. Here's my Religious stand for Nepali fellow countrymen:
Before you accept any faith or believe or accept any god or goddess, check the sources or investigate what they really are: for example, you want to worship Shiva please read the Shiva Purana or the literature on Saivaism (one of the most dominant and originareligious practice of the Himalayas from Kashmir to Nepal) or read the Kathoupanisad or other upanisadas.
If you are so called Hindu (a foreign name like the word Indian) and your family or you will perform some ritual. If you really obseve the ritual you will see the Vedic rites and ritual worship first ELEMENTS: 'water, fire, earth, either, air'. They are part of the ritual. If you wonder what they really are in this scientific age you will like to find out. Then study the six schools of thought - and pay especial attention to Samkhya and Yoga. Then you will see Vedic religion do not worship the Personification of gods and goddess but the substance like atom, electron, proton from where life has come.
If you do not care the fact but just become what others have become then you are surely mediocre and of course moron.
Same vision you need for the difficult situation we have in Nepal. If you have vision you will natually take the serious responsibility. Otherwise you are frightened to death for the survival for yourself and your family.
Good bye.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 12:45 PM
Suva Chintak ji,
Your comments are funny and enlightning. Should I call you the enlightened one?
You are certainly "hilo ma lukeko sun"
:-)
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| Vision |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 01:43 PM
Suva Chintak Ji.
Hahaha ...good lesson for the kids..Priceless hajur!
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 03:38 PM
Padme: You do not believe in People!! You do not trust them that they can rule the country!! You would not also take the reality of all democratic nations where people rule! You think Nepal is low graded country where except for you and your king are superior rest ignorant sheeps and goats "Praja"!! Your slave!
You are the example of the Samnti or the Sectarian Feudal with your thoughts. The credibility of this poll on Sanjha.com is the argument that is not relevant or counter productive for the peace or cease-fire. The civil war that has taken place in Nepal for last 7 years (you may not take as civil war) needs solution that can work for all Nepali people from poor to rich, from educated to illiterate; not only for you and your king.
Before your react with your thought instantly make some research on the Sectarian Feudalism, especially of Nepal that are mainly re-enforced by Shah and Rana - in the name of many Hindu gods and goddess, centralized administration, restriction of education and economic opportunity for Prajas.
The fundamental problem that we face in Nepal is in our psychology, social and religious values and beliefs that rules have manipulated for thier benefit to ignore people of Nepal to make them Praja.
It is a democratic rights or human rights for people to get freedom from the psychology and social behavior being treated as Parja.
Padme you are the puppet of the Sectarian Feudal ruler and you would be so happy to make us your Parja - it would be your great celebration!!!!!
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 03:39 PM
Dear Vision, IF, Padme and other souls who displayed their good nature in tolerating my somewhat amateur attempts at humor, thank you sirs! For what would life be without some laughter, wit and a dash of mischievous wink? As my good guru Dr. Bhandari used to remind us often, it would be 'sapat jindagi.'
I think we Nepalis are materially poor (somewhat). But in terms of wit and humor, we could easily be the richest! We have so much ingridients already: diverse and multiple cultures, many languages with their exquisite expressions, zillion gods and goddesses with unique temparements, and generally speaking, a very very easy going people (except the Maoists comrades, who hold the firm belief that it is a reactionary sin to be seen laughing, except of course when you happen to be quartering and taking out the choice cuts from a primary school teacher, it is the choice diet of the revolution. It is for this reason that you never see the great Dr. Bhattari and Prachanda smiling..the stern and righteous visage ...if you smile to the peasants they might not take you too seriously, or they might forget to be scared of the revolutionaries). More than that, Neppali folks know how to laugh at themselves (except the revolutionaries 0f course).
So l plead that we bring more of our natural Gorkahli sense of humor to Sajhapur!
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 03:48 PM
Hi Sajha.com This is what I would like to post for the random poll and see how result from the online literate Nepali individuals.
How much will you sacrifice for the Democracy that may either need the most democratic king or Republic should be the question before each one of us Nepali who care for persent political situation of our county. I beleive that the concern for the Democracy and, social respect, and equal economic opportunity is far more the need for the people of Nepal who are engaged in the civil war and revolution than the most of the privilleged opportunists who have resources to come to study in the first world.
I actually writing this thread in regards of this poll "WHO AMONG THE FOUR IS BEST SUITED TO RUN NEPAL TODAY? [Created by sathee_sabaiko@lycos.com]" because I think it is a dangerous poll and support for the king is not the solution but the act to put more oil in fire.
We have to face the fact that the present king is the problem of the country - the way he has become the king, his mysterious involvement with Maoists, his ambition to restore his father's legacy, his undemocratic move to dismiss the democratic cabinet, his lack of academic discipline, his son's criminal behavour, etc.
Our struggle for the Democracy and equal economic opportunity and social respect for all Nepali is the most natural and geniune struggle for change in the process of human evolution. Without struggle the change will never occur and brats like you will always win - education for you, prosperity for you, power for you, because you are used to wash the shit for the Sectarian feudal king - your forefathers have done it; it is not shame for you even being educated in the most democratic countries like Britain or America or Australia.
Therefore, if you think about the present situation the question for us to ponder is this:
How much will you sacrifice for the Democracy that may either need the most democratic king or Republic?
Whether you ponder deeply in your heart and consider 80% population who live under utter poverty and darkening illiteracy or answer immidiately this question it is upto you and your response will show up what you really are - spoilt brat of corrupt privilleged opportunits' family or one who struggle for education, freedom and economic independence out his or her hardworking.
You may anwser as you wish:
1. I do not sacrifice for this cause - I'm a Sectarian Feudal royalist.
2. I like to sacrifice little - I'm nothing but opportunist
3. I want to sacrifice for this cause as much as I can - I'm a democrat
4. I want to sacrifice even my life for this cause - I'm Republic
It is for all of us to see that the problem is the institution and tradition of Sectarian Feual monarch and its pupets; not the human evolution that stands for the Democracy, social respect for people from different walks of life, culture, religion, thinking and practice, and equal economic opportunity.
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| prashant |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 04:41 PM
Psvfsolutions bro, timro kura mero veja le boojhnaii sakena ki...bessi vejha chatne haina la....eee timi ta k saarro ho mero goruko barai takka garne khalke raichhau ni....aaanch feri mero veja tatyo vane khaini ko dibba jasto ho, kachak-kuchuk banaidinchi ho som lai......aaboo sabaile rajaa thik vanchha vane aaboo rajaa nai thik ni ho...k saarro kachera gari baseko...bessi ryag nagara la...bessi baaththe nahunu la...baadar bessi batho vayo vane kuni k chyapera marchha vanchha ki....feri nalekhnu la...loo ma gaye......
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| stared look |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 07:02 PM
Kneeling in front of king is not an option anymore. If anybody don't understand that I would say, he hasn't suffered enough. The irony is most of these thread contributors are either in foreign countries like US, UK or Australia or they are filthy rich in Nepal. What do you want for the country if you think about it at all? Do you want an atom bomb to be dropped like in Hiroshima or do you want to go through holocaust like experience like Jews went through? Japanese and Jews really developed their country after those gruesome experience. European also experienced world war I and II. We Nepalese haven't suffered anything comparing to them at all. So, it is not very surprising when Nepalis who have opportunities equal to the first world people support king so willingly.
We are not even recognized in the first world. It takes long conversation to tell people where we are from except to rare individuals. We are damn poorest people in the world. There is not even infrastructure in the country. Political parties are always fighting only for their power proving that conflict theory always applies. When have they been able to improve people's life standard? Never. And who is to blame for all these things? Only blatant answer is the king. When will you open your eyes guys?
A filament of fire is enough to burn whole forest. If Maoists, who were so small group when they started their movement can bring so much of upheaval in the country why can't we brush king aside? Why any political parties don't have any guts at this moment? I just don't understand this. Any sane Nepali should be sick of this attitude. Political parties – or say Girija or Madav Nepal also definitely should have understood that this is the right time to make the country republic. However, everyone seems already dead in Nepal.
Now, there is only thing left to say: Pashupati Nathle Raksha Garun.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 07:38 PM
Suva Chintak,
A great piece. Really enjoyed your piece, and somehow got a vague idea of what the term "secterian feudalism" is all about, but still don't know what it really means. But, ah well, we are one of those spoiled brats and closet panches..so, what difference does it make whether we understand the term or not.
By the way, I voted for the King.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 08:10 PM
OK, let me throw some of my MONARCHIST views:
The fact that there was not a single rebellion in areas conquered by Prithvi Narayan Shah during the unification itself proves that the Shah dynasty was and is popular among the various ethnic groups of nepal. This popularity wouldn't have come if the Dynasty had been disrespectful of the minority/majority cultures and traditions.
Nepalsese learned about Republicanism, say 100 eyars ago, but the institution of Monarchy is here for the last 2500 yers. There's not a single period in nepal's history when it was without a King.
Read 2017 saal ko bhasan. In that Mahendra Sarkar clearly highlighted the dangers of multi-party democracy in a small country like nepal. Satra saal ko speech reads : Parties will always think of their interests rather than that of Nepal and the Nepalese. Based on what I saw for the last 13 years, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't call Mahendra Sarkar a visionary leader who REALLY understood Nepal. You tell me, which party in the last 13 years have really thought of Nepal and Neplais interests? One party promotes violence, the others are busy eting theirs hare of pie, some others are actually encouraging violence and don't wnat the killings to come to an end.
The parties exposed their real selves even more after the asoj-18 move. They didn't say anything for a whole week, hoping that its their turn to enter Singhadurbar in Kalo motor, and when the KIng appointer a little lesser evil, they started screaming their throats off on legalities and other issues of the move. Couldn't they have accepted the fact and said, OK< we will support the new governmnet in its effort to bring about peace and hold general elections as soon as possible? instead, they threatned of staging another BISHAL andolan, talking about which reminds me that once Girija and Makune talked of staging a BIg andolan to " force the king to rectify the constitutional error". What's happeneing with that? Well, they realized that the majority of their party workers are sick and tired of their neither head nor tale bhasans and aren't very supportive of any andolan at this time..the result.. chup lagera basne.. This alone proves that the leaders of these big national political parties are nothing but clowns, super clowns to be precise.
Its a time honored tradition in countries with Monarchy to have army named ROYAL. The BRitish Air Force is called ROyal Air Force, There's Queen's Own .... (RIFLE) and so on in England. The ROYAL in front of the Nepali ARmy is just a "title" (as explained by COS Prajwalla Shumsher Rana), the Army is there to serve Nepal, Nepalis and the Crown. "yahi sena maha mantra, yahi satya sadhain bhari" (This is the army motto, and this is the TRUTH).
Democracy, Freedom of Speech, Voting rights, this and that don't mean anything unless and until the people get their basic necessities satisfied. No one talks about freedom of speech and democracy's mahanata if he/she is hungry, has no clothes to wear and has no place to live. So, the American or the WEST promoted Universal Declaration of Human Rights, democracy and other things, don't actually work in the third world developing Nations. This is why Vienna Convention of Human Rights failed to get the third world countries approval and the convention failed. [Rogue States, Noam Chomsky, 2000]
If we look at the development trend, we see the nation states with authoritarian rulers develop faster than with bhad-bhailo democracies. Look at the examples of Singapore, Malaysia and China and compare it to the growth and development of India, Sri Lanka and Nepal. So, think twice before you scream your throats off in favor of democracy in third world developing countries. "Democracies and Freedom of Speech have done more harm to these nations than good" says Kaplan in his best selling book, The Coming Anarchy.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 08:15 PM
TO conclude, I agree with mahan PSVSOLUTIONS jyu that we should think twice beore we make any decision. I say, we to think 200 times and ask ourselves, what do we REALLY want? Do we want development, stability and economic growth so that everyone in Nepal gets to eat, wear and has a house to live in, or we want freedom of speech and democracy and push Nepal towards a civil war? For example, Ethipia, Afganisthan Iran, Rwanda were developing despite Monarchies and or dictators, but as soon as these rulers were removed, the POWER SHARING game lead to a vicious cyle of civil war and emergence of even ruthless dictators/rulers.
OF course the choise is your's.. What do you want your children to carry--Guns or Books?
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 11-Feb-03 08:48 PM
PSV SOLUTIONS, what guarnty is there that as soon as Nepal becomes a Republic, everything will turn great? OK, what's next after declaring a Republican State? How can REpublci Nepal be different than the KIngdom of Nepal?
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 11:14 AM
Isolated freak: The are argument in this thread (regarding the Poll that has randomly gave the majority vote to the king as best suited to run Nepal today) is not against the king or any other party. The objective of the argument is to find out whether such Poll is being posted by sajha.com and participation of individuals voitings without second thought have what sort of mind make up or conditioning despite of their education (either from the first world education institutes or nepal).
All could have been done without second thought and without considering the consequence of the Poll. Before we put such a Poll which has tendency to doubt the credibility of the king and other political parties. We have the most difficult political situation in Nepal, and it is historically first the first time occurring. Therefore, the crises is unique and new. So we cannot randomly solve the problem. We have to let the situation unfold itself without any prior conclusion that 'who is best suited to run Nepal' or any sporty attitudes. The political crises is nothing like watching American Football. It is serious and has to be resolves for the good for all Nepali from all walk of life.
Of course, the questions must exist in our mind to think over the matter without any instant answer. The door for the Constitutional Monarchy and Multiparty system must be open and it is our first and foremost choice. Similarly, the door for the Republic should be open if the king did not want to give the power to people or the Sectarian Feudal system doen not trust people to rule the county.
Majority of people of Nepal want the Costitutional Monarchy and Multiparty System so that the Sectarian Feudal monarchical system gives up habits of ruling people as 'Parja' and trust us as the bonafied citizen of Nepal. It is very odd to tell the fact that the tradition of Sectarian Feudal monarchical system and its servents from army, police, civil servents have attitude learnt automatically from the Sectarian Feudal environment to treat people as 'Parja'. They are in the first place are appointed or employed directly from the cerntral conroll and are obliged to the king and his Sectarian Feudal hiararchy.
The choice for us to dismantal the Sectarian Feudal Ruling tradition. This does not mean getting ride of the king as long as he is willing to modernize or democratize his old Sectarian Feudal ruling system.
This means the army under the Parliament and Cabinet. CDO dismantalled and districts are ruled by the elected Governer or 'Savapati'. Police officers must be the resident of th local district, city or village muncipalty.
The choice for us to modernize the Sectarial Feudal monarchical system completely and establish the Constitutional mocarchy and the Multiparty System.
As we have seen the result of this poll mostly casted by the birth-right fortune holder Nepali who came to study in the first world. Why not sajha.com also post the poll that can find out who many of this sample candidates support the Constitutional mocarchy and the Multiparty System. Let see how much this sample group sacrifice for the casuse that Nepal needs at this time and point.
How much would you sacrifice if you wish desperately to modernize Nepal with the Constitutional Monarchy and the Multiparty System?
1. I do not sacrifice for this cause - I'm a Sectarian Feudal royalist.
2. I like to sacrifice little - I'm nothing but opportunist
3. I want to sacrifice for this cause as much as I can - I'm a democrat
4. I want to sacrifice even my life for this cause - I'm Republic
Why don't we ask sajha.com to post poll like this and see what we get from it. For without modernizing the ruling psychology and working systems that are based on the Sectarian Feudal (Nepali Para's Pujabad Samanti Bebsatha), there gonna be always trouble if not with the government, with caste, creed and tribes. We have to modernize our way of life with Democratic legislations, that are strickly executed, and justified without Sectarian mental frame.
So far I have seen the responses to this tread I have little hope from this sample group because most of them are spoilt brat who come from the family that are heavily brain washed by the Sectarian Feudal practice and exploitation.
Please do not take that I am agaist the king as long as he respects the human rights of the people for their freedom, equal economic opportunity and happiness. But still I have doubt that the Shah king like him and his son and his puppet Rana, and other rich brats will see how important it is for humans to have freedom, equal economic opportunity for survival, education for all, and happiness. Peace without full human rights to people has very little life at this time and point.
|
| boston_dude |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:15 PM
isolated freak,
I think you bring some interesting points, however we have to think twice before believing what is written in Nepali history. After all, it was written under the Shah rulers without much objection.
Also, many Nepalis have remained illiterate over the decades and centuries; and the country was closed to the outside world for a long time (and the blame for this falls on the CEO of the country: the Shah dynasty). It is no wonder that a revolution in Nepal has materialised as walls to the outside world have increasingly come down and more and more of the suppressed people have begun to read and write. If you ask folks in the older generation, most of them, even those in the suppressed group, you will find that many of them accepted things the way they were, even when it was unfair to them. After all, many believed it was their karma that failed them. The younger generation does not necessarily agree with such conclusions.
With regards to calling insitutions Royal this and that.... It does not really matter what the names are. What matters is what the workings are like on the inside. And, on the inside... the power of the palace is rooted in the support it gets from the military. If you look at the upper tier of the Nepali Army, they are all firm supporters of the king. They were promoted to these positions with this litmus test. (This is not the case in most other constitutional monarchs). And, Nepal can never be truely democratic with a king so powerful. It is for this reason that I hope what comes out of the negotiations with Maoists is a mechanism/plan to break the ties between the king and the army. For the first time in Nepali history, we have this opportunity. An opportunity the Maoists have brought, whether we like it or not, to negotiate with the king. I hope Nepal takes advantage of this historic moment for it will have far reaching implications down the road.
Also, we should realize that what we need today might not be the same as what we need in 10 years, 20 years time or further down the road. I am not going to go into the reasons why here at this time, but I personally would not be opposed to a Maoists rule in Nepal for the immidiate future (I am not saying that is likely to happen). It might be exactly what Nepal needs in the short run. A boot camp so to speak.
B_D.
|
| Vision |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:19 PM
1. I do not sacrifice for this cause - I'm a Sectarian Feudal royalist.
2. I like to sacrifice little - I'm nothing but opportunist
3. I want to sacrifice for this cause as much as I can - I'm a democrat
4. I want to sacrifice even my life for this cause - I'm Republic
5. I agree on all of the counts above - I'm a big fat idiot
|
| suva chintak |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:23 PM
One more jem from my private tutor after our first class last night. Man, if I had know learning would be so much fun, I would have stayed in school all these years!
You know why the belovedly famous leader of Cambodia was called Poll Pot? Well, it goes like this: That country once held a big poll to find out if King Norodum Simhanouk, Khemer Rouge, or the two other parliamentary parties were popular among the citizenary.
When the poll results came out, it turned out that Khemer Rouge was on the bottom of the list, the two other parties got about 17 % votes each and the Sectarian Feudal Simhanauk ended up with 63% of the total votes cast. While most of the people in the kingdom took the results normally, the Khemer Rouge were, literally seeing red!
The party began a campaign to trash the poll, the pollsters and finally the people who took part in the pool as stupid, ignorant brats who didn't know what was good for their good. If this is the way they are gonna vote, they are not ready for democracy. They need some socialist guidance, the great leader Aachi Khor Kha said. He led a violent campaign and the kingdom became the Khemer People's Democratic Republic.
But the great leader had not forgotton the slight he had felt from the poll results. So he decided to test them...the two third of Cambodians who had voted for the King were put into a huge couldron and boiled. "This is the real poll, now we will know their real opinion, the internet poll is a conspiracy of the feudal sectarians," he said. Each evening the great leader came and inspected the couldron...he took a large soup spoon and tested the boiling broth. "Ah, this is the real poll result! I like it when it comes out of this pot, not from a ballot box" the Aachi Khor Kha would tell his comrades as he poured them the poll from the pot.
Having seen how much he liked this kind of brew, the communist party (M) decided to offer their leader a new name after his favourite drink...that is why Aachi Khor Kha came to be know as Poll Pot after 1975. The great leader lived very happily ever after with his new name.
Sunne lai fulko mala, bhanne lai sunko mala..yo katha baikuntha jala, bhanne bela khuru khuru aula.
PS: My beautiful tutor (don't get wrong ideas guys, she is not Manju's Tutor of ... or Samrat's Goru of Love) was wondering the hell is sectarian feudal? She also told me ask around if anyone heard of Tin Pot Democracies and Banana Republics.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:34 PM
Banana Republics exist where there are major GAPS in thoughts and practice. They are usually manned by Cocinut Airlines and CocoNut pilots who fly in and out of the republics but who do not stay long enough to run them!!!
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| Padme |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:37 PM
Ma pheri natamastak bheye.
Hajur ko gyan prashamsa gare ra afu lai thulo banauna khoje ko hoina ni hai.
8-)
I liked it very much. Thanks.
|
| Padme |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:39 PM
Clarification..
Maile Suva Chintak ji ko prasansa gareko, aru kukhura katera bhutla khane manche ko hoina ni.
|
| najar |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 12:54 PM
Suva Chintak jyu.. please continue to share your tutorial episodes with us! Gyanabardhak! Hats off to your beautiful tutor, your version of transcription and story telling ability.
|
| stared look |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 01:10 PM
I wish new negotiations with Maoists bring some fruit to Nepalis people. However, much to the disappointment nothing will happen. Political parties don't know what they want. At least, they don't want republic system except Maoists. Four party leaders are merely asking the position of Maoists and Kings in present situation in today's news to figure out who will be forming the next government. Only power is their concern. So, it gives good reasons for people not to listen to the political parites at all because politicians are not about people. At least Maoists know what they want because they have carried out bloodshed for seven years. At this juncture, Maoists seem better. However, communist republic will not come in Nepal. Victimizing seven thousand Nepalis people is not enough for communist republic. As long as some autocratic dictator is alive and well in the country, there will be no republic system. To change the political system, people must shed the rivers of blood. However, much to the dismay, there is not a single party which can be believed. There is not a single leader who can be believed. That's the reason, why majority in the poll casted vote for the King. I am not the supporter of the King. I never was. But this is my conclusion. Even at this moment of opportunity, nobody in our political parties dares to speak for republic system. We are just wasting time here. It sounds better to say Maoist should have continued the struggle. If they don't get even a republic system, then seven years of bloodshed will be futile.
|
| Padme |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 01:18 PM
Vision ji,
Tapai ko poll bharker po dekhe.
Thank you for the poll I voted for the fifth option.
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 01:35 PM
Psv Solutions,
What's your concept of democracy that will WORK in Nepal? Also, i am seeing a change in your writing style. You have now toned down your rhetoric and have reduced the usage of what seems like your favorite phrase "spoiled brats". This is good, now expect a meaningful debate to take place.
Having said this, let me ask you two questions, before we carry on with this:
1. What is Secterian Feudalism? Are you implying that "monarchy" is a sect and the people who believe in it are "people" who are happy to remain "serfs"? And these happy serfs (an oxymoron!!) are actually asking the feudal lords to extort them to the fullest? I just didn't get it. So, would you mind explaining this to a high school dropout?
Also, you seem to have a threatening approach: As long as the KIng follows by these RULES then he can stay or else I will think of the alternatives. Now, may I ask, what's your alternatives? Is it declaring yourself or someone who agrees with you the King of Nepal or going for a republic or something else? What is it? You need to make that clear so that we all get it (not only them educated ones, you see).
One more question, what is you? A democrat or a Republcian or a democratic republican? What's the difference between a democratic republican and a republican?
Boston dude,
Interesting views there. Thanks for taking yoiur time to shgare it with us. Although I disagree with you on many issues, I think you have a realistic approach on looking at isues than some of us here who only think of theories and logic.
Suva chintak,
Who's next? Idi Amin?
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 01:39 PM
Also, one thing that I am still unclear about:
1. You call yourself a democrat, yet you don't want to accept the Poll results? What Kind of democracy is that? Aha! I got it, its a Contradictory Democracy similar to Secterian Feudalism, hoina ta?
|
| isolated freak |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 01:51 PM
apologies for this series of poistings:
PSV,
You didn't answer to my earlier questions on Republic, but you seem to mention that if the King doesn't reeduate himself to be a democrat then you will have a REpublic. Now, what';s your vision/plan of a Republcian Nepal and how do you think it will work in Nepal, i.e, it will be democratic and will clear the remnant of Secterian Feudalism from our society? Wouldn't the Presidency or the institution of it, give rise to yet another new Secterian Feudalism?
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 05:41 PM
Isolated freak: It will depend on the tempo of the discussion that will determine the degree of my tone and style of my language. If the discussion hits the point and reflects the reality, then it is worth to ponder more deeply that shout at each other. Lets get to the point:
I am sure you know feudalism very well, especially existed in Europe that was basically related with the power of economics. But when you add the word Sectarian as prefix feudalism carries strongly those values which are religiously dominated with dogamas, beliefs, superstitions, worships, rituals, rites, etc. For example, only Hindu can be the king of Nepal, the king is the incarnation of Visnu or god, Bramins can only be the Rajguru, etc. When feudalism as government system rules the psychology of the citizen with fear intermiggling religion then that what I call Sectarian Feudalism. This may be Hindu's way to rule or especially the Nepali governing tradition, I think it is not functionable in this time of 21st century.
Democracy to me is the completely separation between religion and government. The governing system in Democracy must be secular, no string attached to religion. This is what I called modernizing Nepal.
If the king can modernize himself, by re-educating himself or making self-revolution by himself (all his choice), then what will be wonderful. We will have the most wonderful country in the world. World loves Nepal with her wonderful natural beuty.
If not we will go other choice as time brings forth - Democratic Republic. Personally, I am a Democrat and country that has no Democracy won't be my homeland.
At the moment I am busy with my personal stuff. If I have chance I will read your response, your thought and from there we will continue.
Thanks for asking questions.
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| NK |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 08:08 PM
Shuva Chintak: Priceless!
I have yet to read my friend IF's posting.
|
| mirador |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 08:11 PM
Dear Panchmandali,
This poll in no way reflects popular Nepali opinion so don't congratulate yourself yet
Monarchy in Nepal is trying hard to come across as indispensible for a peaceful and united Nepal. To some extent it has succeeded in doing so inside The Valley. Kathmandu bashis were pissing in their pants when the maobadis finally came seeking blood so they must be eternally grateful to Gyanendra for the ceasefire. Hence, the poll result.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 09:24 PM
“But when you add the word Sectarian as prefix feudalism carries strongly those values which are religiously dominated with dogamas, beliefs, superstitions, worships, rituals, rites, etc.”
My first question: Is it bad? Looking at it from Sherry Ortner’s definition, rituals help in re-establishing the social order that gets altered while carrying out different activities. And rituals are in fact created by the society to preserve the order/social hierarchy, so that things don’t get chaotic. I find it hard to believe that rituals, rites, dogmas, supersititions are indeed bad. Name a society in which you won’t find this? Is there any? Now, getting to Secterian Feudalism, going by your definition, the Pope, US President, Enghlish Queen are the products/by products of RITUALS. The Pope has various myths, beliefs, rituals , dogmas attached to him, so he is a Secterian Feudal Lord. Likewise, if the polls are considered a ritual that we all participate to give continuity to our “traditions” and elect someone, then whoever gets elected is a Secterian Feudalist. So, examining it by anthropological and political perspectives, I think there is something wrong with this definition. You see rituals, worships, dogmas, rites as forces that create Sectarian Feudalism, I see them as forces that balance and re-balance any given society.
“For example, only Hindu can be the king of Nepal, the king is the incarnation of Visnu or god, Bramins can only be the Rajguru, etc. When feudalism as government system rules the psychology of the citizen with fear intermiggling religion then that what I call Sectarian Feudalism. This may be Hindu's way to rule or especially the Nepali governing tradition, I think it is not functionable in this time of 21st century.”
There is some truth in this paragraph, however you forgot to mention one thing: The society that created this “tradition” also created other traditions/cultural traits/norms/patterns so that there’s always a sense of inter-dependency in the society. For example, the King has to worship Kumari, who comes from, the Shakya clan, then in his Palace, he has to have people from all groups to “carry” out certain rituals. Ditto in our homes, you need people who are at the top of social/racial/caste hierarchy chart to the ones who are at the very bottom to go on with your daily lives. The society created this system, so that not a single group feels its existence threatened. But, in the course of time, people have altered this and have used it as a tool to marginalize and exploit those at the bottom, but again remember Rituals. New Rituals will originate and somehow the society will re-establish the order, so that things won’t get chaotic.
Saying that only a Hindu can be the King of Nepal, I will say, why only a Christian be the King of England and why it is always a Catholic as Pope? See, these questions don’t make any sense because there’s no way you can change the system/belief that is so deeply rooted in the minds of millions of people. The question itself do not make any sense. Its like asking, why do you call a head “head” and a nose “nose”.
Religion does not create fear. Also, religion is not imposed on people. Its out of their own free will, people tend to accept, participate and “celebrate” religion and values/beliefs associated with it.
Going by your above definition, it seems like you are saying that everything we do, from participating in a poll to going to a temple/church etc. are in fact RITUALS that Strengthen the Secterian Feudalism, hoina ta? A drastic change is needed, but what? People will continue to partcipate in rituals, people will continue to follow their beliefs and no matter what system you bring in, you cannot possibely get rid of the Secterian Feudalism. Chairman Mao failed to get rid of the rituals and beliefs in china albeit his ambitious great proleterait cultural revolution and “mandir bhatkaune” movement. Although you might be able to get rid of it for a brief period of time, but you can never get rid of it. Even the Primates have Secterian Feudalism.
”If the king can modernize himself, by re-educating himself or making self-revolution by himself (all his choice), then what will be wonderful. We will have the most wonderful country in the world. World loves Nepal with her wonderful natural beuty.”
Interesting thoughts, but what should he study, with whom and where?
”If not we will go other choice as time brings forth - Democratic Republic. Personally, I am a Democrat and country that has no Democracy won't be my homeland.”
Going by your definition, there’s not a single country in the world that has your kind of democracy[because all are Secterian Feudal Societies]. Do you by any chance live in the space :)
"Thanks for asking questions."
Thanks for taking your time to reply to my queries. Time permitting (for both us),we will continue this in a healthy manner. Have a good one, sir.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 12-Feb-03 09:48 PM
IF ji... A perfect Democratic nation is :
Cyber-Utopia= Cyberia!
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 03:24 AM
OK here's how the society you have envisioned will be limited to this web discussion:
"But when you add the word Sectarian as prefix feudalism carries strongly those values which are religiously dominated with dogmas, beliefs, superstitions, worships, rituals, rites, etc.”
You have to get rid of all the religions that you can think of to get rid of “secterian feudalism”. You are contradicting yourself when you say, a secular form of government will be able to get rid of Secterian Feudalism. Secular government/nation, if I understand the word correctly, means the govt/state does not endorse any religion/religious beliefs, however the citizens are free to practice what they deem fit. Its them citizens who vote their leaders, and its one of them citizens who gets to the top. And you can’t expect those citizens nor the ones who get elected to be free of religious influences or biases overnight. So, the whole system keeps on recycling the Secterian Feudalism. All religions have one thing in common, i.e, belief in hierarchy, and as long as people believe in religion, they keep on believing in hierarchy thus making it impossible for to you create a society/form of government that is not a Secterian Feudalist. So, my friend, maybe you should coin a new phrase that accurately and in simple terms describes what’s that you are fighting/ looking for. Good Luck.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 03:28 AM
This should help all of us who are yet to figure out what Secterian Feudalism means..
Roots=Religions
Branches/leaves=Rituals/beliefs
Fruits=Secterian Feudalism
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 04:32 AM
The question is why did the poll towards the king goes through the roof after the psvf post this article ?
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 09:28 AM
Feaudalism: Man, feaudalim did not only exist in the era of marx,lenin and the time before JF Kennedy.It still exists in the europe and the america.Don,t compare it with nepal its ..........peanuts.
"But when you add the word Sectarian as prefix feudalism carries strongly those values which are religiously dominated with dogmas, beliefs, superstitions, worships, rituals, rites, etc.” -isolated freak
I don't believe you in one way feudal has non of the interest with the dogmas, beliefs, superstitions, worships, rituals, rites, etc. dogma can be compared with bandit,belifs with religion,superstition with psycho,rituals with ceremonies,rites has its own features.
feaudalism can be compared with the way of life that has no choice and the old system.Though I still belive that feaudalism exists everywhere.
hierarchy cannot be common in every religion .You can see till certain point it applies in the muslim and the all the christians.it cannot be possible everywhere.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 09:36 AM
If not we will go other choice as time brings forth - Democratic Republic. Personally, I am a Democrat and country that has no Democracy won't be my homeland. -psvf
I don't believe you are the citizen of the other planet.There can be many system in the government which run the state smoothly.Democratic Republic is just the part of the socialism which can be commom with many other system.Like roman had the republic govt than anyone else.King constantine did strongly believed in republic but still his monarchy was sufficient for the people.
Which country would you give the example that they flourish through Democratic Republic and it is inevitable ?
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 11:17 AM
"But when you add the word Sectarian as prefix feudalism carries strongly those values which are religiously dominated with dogmas, beliefs, superstitions, worships, rituals, rites, etc.” -isolated freak
Rajnpl, I didn't write the above lines, so i don't deserve the credit.
Great information there rajnplji. Let me add one thing, Democratic [People's] Republics usually have dictators. And if we believe that Marx started the whole socialist school of thinking, then DICTATORSHIP isn't what Marx envisoned.
Again in the Hellenistic world, you had Slaves, Citizen and Rulers. They too had a social structure based on hierarchy. Likewise the Indus Valley/Mayan/Egyptian/Ottoman/Bezantine/Christendom of the ancient and medieval periods followed the social structure absed on hierarchy where on group was either by birth or profession more privilidged than the rest of the population. Again, if we want to talk contemporary societies, whether Capitalist America or Socialist China, the social structures are based on hierarchy.
How the society reinforces hierarchy: Imagine this scenario: You go to work late (no matter where you are), your boss calls you in his/.her office and gives you a long lecture on you being late. The tone is not always polte and gentle. This at the surface level is nothing but an usual thing, but if you really think why the boss had to be so mad about you being 15 mins late, then you come to a conclusion that he is being authorative, and that he wants you to understand that there's someone above you. You suddenly come to realzie his power and your worth. He is much privilidged than you. This way hierarchy is created and enforced in the modern societies, whether its a socialist society or a capitalist society.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 11:27 AM
The work thing is just an example. Of course, we see this in other areas too, in the acaedmia, army, media.. not a single place where you don't find this reinforced everyday.
Mao tried to create a class-less soceity once, but he too failed miserabley. Even in China, two groups emerged immediately after the 1949 revolution. One consisted of the Party members who had taken part in the revolution and who were now in the governmnet/higher levels in the Party and those who did not particpate in the revolution and who at that time were labelled conter-revolutionaries, reactionaries and so on. And in between these two groups, there was yet another sub-group of the majority of the Chinese population who were too unimportant to deal with from the State's Perspective. As a result, the Party workers started to enjoy EXTRA benifits from the state, the counter Revolutioneries/reactionaries were sent to jails and labor camps, if not killed and the majority however didn't get anything, except revolutions and silly campaigns. So, China too had this problem, they tried to getr rid of class structure, religion and social hierarchy, but they failed miserably. In the process of trying to abolish class system, they themselves created another class system, the social structure kept on getting recycled, the hierachy chart turned upside down (and startyed to rortate right and left) but they too couldn't create an egalitarian society where everyone was EQUAL.
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 11:48 AM
Isolated Freak: Superstions, beliefs, dogamas and thier rituals have never established order in any society or country because they divide humans with caste, creed, race, color etc; the live example the Middle East.
The etimological meaning of the word Religion (in Greek origin) means 'TO SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE'. In Sanskrita 'Dharma' means 'Seeing Truth' to live a life as humanly as transparent, unbaised, and impartial to life.
This may be difficult with our conditioned mind. But it is the Freedom or rights of an individual human to strive for the clarity which means attemp to see with one's own eyes, but not taking any intellectual information or beleif or superstition or rumor for granted. But thinking over it carefully and make decision for oneself with responsibility.
Religion is not the practice of mass, but the individual freedom to think or ponder or meditate over crises that are thrown at each one of us. This in Vedic school of thought is called 'Mokshaya or liberation from the baised or impatial perception' and in the school of Budha is called 'Nirvana'.
The Religion therefore involves philosophies - school of thoughts. Such Religions are Vedic, Buddhism, Existentialism, which are profoundly developed to understand hunam conditioning. The fundamental objective of Religion is to understand human conditioning, which is inevitable and is bond to be superstitious, partial thinking, etc.
When in the name of Religion a group of people with certain beliefs, faith, rumor, superstition establishes a tradition to make itself powerful and rule the rest of the week group is called Sect. A Sect stands for the certain group of people. Where as Religion stands for the individual perception and freedom. The world still in this Scientific age is dominated by the Sects - such as Christianity, Islam, Judiasm, Hindu, etc.
Democracy, Religion and Science goes together in terms of its philosophical persuit. As Demrcracy stands for the freedom of speech (thinking), human rights, individual freedom with the attempt to investigate the fact for justice, so the Religion for the self-liberation, self-intigrity, self-enlightenment, and so the Sceince because examines the idea that are supposed and discovers the fact that exist now - "water = H2O" - origin - Atom - Elements - Molecules. Scientific facts exist Now at the present moment; Religious mind makes an individual awake at Now to see things as they are for his perception therefore self-intigrity and freedom; similarly Democracy addresses crises at present moment for justice and clarity for human rights.
Therefore, a Sectarian Feudalism can never bring order in a society. It can force people and follow the order with fear - example Panchayet system or any one party dictatorship. Since world is dominated with Sectarian governing system because individuals do not care for their freedom but get pleasure and power from following Sects, we have disorder in the world - example Terrorism in Isalamic exertimists, etc.
Therefore, I stand for the Secular society for the mass and individual choice for the Religion becasue an individual must be free to see his or her eyes. But not from the Sectarian Mass. Religion therefore is a choice, not the WILL. A will is imposed by the mass in an individual that is what is called conditioning of the mind.
Thus at this time and point or ever in the future individual must stand for the Democratic Society that is Secular that can protect individual right to think on one's own 'Religion' and Scientific and technological developments for the freedom and happiness of humans.
I will conditnue as per your response.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 06:12 PM
You should learn the history of Catholic Church and how it has affected yesterdays and today's living, positively in the modern world along with the philosophical advancements in the east. Philosophical advancements are not just theories they imply to real life situations. "Religious' dogmas" are the same way.
Culture develops from philosophy, out of philosophy rituals emerge, out of rituals culture are shaped. It is a cycle.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 09:10 PM
PSVFSolutions ji
A sociologist friend of mine used to say... given a chance, people will find literature, dogmas, rules and laws to uphold their brand of truth..suitable to that time, period and frame of mind. And so it seems with you! You have propped your "truth" with Vedic readings among other political-sounding terminologies. Given that you have delved into such deep, mindboggling and yet absolutely flabergasting phenomenas such as culture, religion, philosophy (especially Vedic name dropping), I wonder if you have ever come across this:
Nirguno Niskriyo nityo nirbikalpo niranjanaha.
Nirbikaro nirakaro nityamuktoasmi nirmalaha.
Meaning-- I am without attributes and action, eternal and pure, free from stain and desire, changless and formless and always free FROM EGO!
If you have, you seem to have resorted to selective reading methods or selective retention methods where you have applied only a handful of "suitable" concepts to disperse of "knowledge" and "enlightenment" to the ignorant mass of Sajha... In doing so you have conveniently omitted the very essence of knowledge dispension.... Humility...translated into the act of renouncing an egoistic position!
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 09:29 PM
Finally I get to practice my 7th grade Sanskrit (I hear the great anti sectatian feudal monarchy revolutionaries have done away with Sanskrit lately in a bid to rid the country of all corrupt rituals, religion, slave minds, culture...and all that is bad. So we just have the pure, pure revolutionary violence left). Here it goes, before I forget:
Sundaram, mangalam!
Sitara bani ati amritam!!
murkha bani sadhy trasha!
ardha bidhya bhayankara!!
Swasti, swasti!!
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 11:09 PM
"Isolated Freak: Superstions, beliefs, dogamas and thier rituals have never established order in any society or country because they divide humans with caste, creed, race, color etc; the live example the Middle East."
What's the example from the Middle East? If you are hinting at the Arab vs. Palestine issue, then my friend, its religion combined with a violent protest against an unjust American Policy. IT has more to do with the latter than the former. There was an article published on one of the issues of Current History last year, titled "Nasty Bruitish and Long: America's War on Terror", you might want to read that to understand the root of the conflict in the Middle East. If you are generalizing that the whole of Middle East is orthodox and is planning a jihad (crusade) and that the whole system there revolves aroud fundamentalism, you need to read "Orientalism" by Edward Said. So, in no way you can relate religious fundametalism with what's happening in the Middle East.
"The etimological meaning of the word Religion (in Greek origin) means 'TO SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE'. In Sanskrita 'Dharma' means 'Seeing Truth' to live a life as humanly as transparent, unbaised, and impartial to life. "
I am not sure, but I have HEARD [correct me] that RELIGION come from FRENCH Religare. Again, I have heard this, since I am not a student of RELIGION, and I have never bothered to check up on this..
In teh Vedic texts, Sanatan Dharma is mentioned. Dharma itself means "doing good things/seeking truth" but when Sanatan is mentioned, it means the "the traditional way of doing good things/seeking truths" and what's the traditional way of doing this: The way that the people in the Indus Valley did. And based on what they have unearthed in Indus Valleym, they believd in hierarchy, they had Gods, they
"Religion is not the practice of mass, but the individual freedom to think or ponder or meditate over crises that are thrown at each one of us. This in Vedic school of thought is called 'Mokshaya or liberation from the baised or impatial perception' and in the school of Budha is called 'Nirvana'. "
Your first line seems a little hard to believe. Again, I am no student of Religion but based on what I have heard, Religion is "submission to the supreme authority/believeing in that tehre's something/some force/some one above us." And this acceptance of SUpreme Being or Force is Religion. Mokshya/Nirvana/Slavation is an aspect of Religion, so, it will be quite unwise to just look at one particular aspect of any religion and draw conclusions.
"Since world is dominated with Sectarian governing system because individuals do not care for their freedom but get pleasure and power from following Sects, we have disorder in the world - example Terrorism in Isalamic exertimists, etc."
See, if people are happy following the sects and to indentify themselves as belonging to particular Sect(S), then how can you possibely get rid of the Secterian Feudalism? Also, you seem to be misunderstanding the meanings of SECTS and CULTS.
Sitara : Nice shloka..
SC: aaru paani jaos..
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 11:19 PM
what they have unearthed in Indus Valleym, they believd in hierarchy, they had Gods, they
read it as: .... they had a governing system. And when there is a governmnet, there is religion, there is hierarchy, there is "restricted" freedom of thoughts/speech (also, freedom of thoughts and speech with limitations]. Even a SECULAR government creates myths and stories to win the loyalty of the masses, the governmnet is romanticized as being the best and k k .. and this leads to the development of Sects and Cults.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 13-Feb-03 11:59 PM
Sitaraji,
Kasto gyan gun ka kura gareko ho! Tapai ta sakshat sarashwati mata jasto hunu huncha ni? Kati kura janeko, kati gyan janeko. Ma ta jilla ram. :-)
Ma lai pani euta sloka auncha, translate chai gardina. Sitara ji le ra SC ji le bujhi halnu huncha hola.
Om purna madha purna midam purnat purna midhchayate
Purnashya purna mebaye purna meba bashishayate.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 12:00 AM
yo sloka malai ashadai man parcha.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 04:24 AM
"Isolated Freak: Superstions, beliefs, dogamas and thier rituals have never established order in any society or country because they divide humans with caste, creed, race, color etc; the live example the Middle East." -if
Again,You are describing religion from the greek culture/indus valley civilizatiin to the present "conflict war on terror". Religion can be anything in my word,you doing the work in the daily basis to survive can be the major religion.You don't have to have a sanskrit path neither pujari or the descent person to be the religious.
I do believe in mesely and i called mysely religious.Though I have no-knowledge in gita,koran or the holy bible.In the era of indus valley civilisation and the harappa culture they use to worship soil,sun,moon and anything natural.Same greek use to do like they use to have the god of fire,god of love and god of many other rituals.
We nepalese belongs to the indus valley civilisation which lie in the mahabharat range.We have nothing to do with the then middle-east civilization.
JIHAD belongs to the muslim and the CRUSADE to the christians.They have their own interest onto that.Descent muslim has nothing to do with that, though the islamic fundamentalist in such countries like pakistan take the major advantage of it.Crusade use to be remain in the era of the meditterian and the roman.The present conflict between the saddam and the bush also have their own interest.
Bush cannot stay calm when he sees the saddam taking over the opec countries.The sadda will have the main control over the oil and his america will suffer from that.And the saddam is an anti-western regime who combined his self interest with the jihad.
The word RELIGION can be very simple and the fatal.I am describing in my own way though i am also not the religion student.You can simply compare the religious history of nepal from the indus valley civ to the present era of the maoist regime you can get some clue there.Dont try to mix up with the anglo-civilization(i mean western).
Though the religion exist eversince and till now. Secterian Feudalism this is a total complex matter.Yes you can see this in the Is.fundamentalist.Aren't you (IF JYU) again going west v/s the rest or the east in one sense?
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 04:32 AM
By the way IF jyu te way describe the feaudalism in
Indus Valley/Mayan/Egyptian/Ottoman/Byzantine/Christendom of the ancient and medieval periods and the present world was interesting.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 04:35 AM
Why is baburam and prachanda crying for nepal is semi-feudal and the semi-colonial country then ?Aren't they going to do that?You can see the dictatorssip now bebore the power.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 08:20 AM
PSVFSOLUTION, JYU
I have read and understood your posts and understand them.It seems you are ultra-leftist and ther no-harm to support any given system of the politics.
I am not an politics student but I am enthusiastic of the nepalese politics comparing to other nation of the world.I am neautral supportor of the any given party and believe in any given system of the politics.I would again like to raise some queries that you have been produced.
1. you said."If not we will go other choice as time brings forth - Democratic Republic. Personally, I am a Democrat and country that has no Democracy won't be my homeland. -psvf
2. Democracy, Religion and Science goes together in terms of its philosophical persuit. As Demrcracy stands for the freedom of speech (thinking), human rights, individual freedom with the attempt to investigate the fact for justice, so the Religion for the self-liberation, self-intigrity, self-enlightenment, and so the Sceince because examines the idea that are supposed and discovers the fact that exist now - "water = H2O" - origin - Atom - Elements - Molecules. Scientific facts exist Now at the present moment; Religious mind makes an individual awake at Now to see things as they are for his perception therefore self-intigrity and freedom; similarly Democracy addresses crises at present moment for justice and clarity for human rights. -psvf.
Now,Lets again produce some facts produce by the baburam bhattarai and the prachanda.They have got the similar point of view till the certain degree.The way you said are true but some of them are failure prooved by some of the western government.
1. Theoritical premises of the historical initian of the people war in nepal.
2. future agenda and the strategy of the maoist party.
3. Other many books published by the com.prachanda.That has the same idea of the marx.
Would you elaborate the above three circumstances provided by the party and that seems to be the same opinions as yours.You call yourself as the DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC LOVER. And the maoist is the only party that claims themself that they have the absolute DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC FEATURES.
Now,PSVFSOLUTION JYU, If you not elaborate above 3 points I would call you the citizen of the no-nation in the world.AND I CAN GUARANTEE THAT.
Don't give us example by comparing the other nation of the world.If you see
1. UK .They have allthe features in the govt.that is exactly like the both communism and the capitalism.
2.USA.They have more capitalistic feature in their govt.but also you can see all the good features of the marx idea.
So. again PSVF JYU .I am looking forward you eagerly.
1
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 10:07 AM
"What do you want from your Life as human at this time and point?" is the question if you could see your's as multi-cellular life form that began after billions of years of atomic evolution.
It is all upto the individual whether he or she attempts to see on his or her own eyes indepently or depend on the second hand information that has passed on him or her in the name of traditions, cultures or civilizations. This does not mean traditions, cultures or civilizations are of no value.
It only means 'Can I see Truth with my own eyes in freedom?, Can I live a life of my own?, Can I think my mind on my own?". This means the one who is independent with his or her perception can observe life on his or her own. I personally think Religion in Vedic or Buddhist exploration meant to liberate individual from ignorance or conditioning of psychological time "The Past".
To understand the fact that life has no other time than "Present" or "Now", the Hindu beliefs on Puranas, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Geeta are not sufficient. They are rather taken for granted to boost up ignorance by mass or average. Basically, it demands unbaised study of Six Schools of Thought - Mimansa, Uttermimansa, Purbamimansa, Samkhya, Yoga, & Vedanta or Sutras of Buddhism or Books on Existentialism or Quantum Physics, Genetic Science, or J. Krishnamurti's phylosophy.
Sitara, I think any personification from image Brahama to Soul is the illusion of the human mind that insists on the value of time "the Past". I do not take Geeta as the authority of human wisdom or learning. This does not mean Geeta would not be helpful to give freedom to see things as they are with my own eyes. It all depends on my attitude that "Do I worship the Geeta as my authority or do I study to find out about my own ignorance - revealing self-knowledge (discovering the truth about my self-ignorance).
Life is all yours or mine and depends on your and mine perception and from there your and mine decision which then gives us choice - "Do I want to live in a herd as an average person or Do I want freedom to see things own my won without taking others freedom to be an average?"
Isolated Freak: Thus it is all upto you to discover what is true and what is false. You do not have to take my arguments as true arguments because all my thinking in actuality is the second hand knowledge or information for you. As mine you have your own perception to see things for yourself. The only thing I question is the dependence on second hand knowledge or attitude to take knowledge passed to us for granted without giving any thought to it (your own independent thought). For all knowledge come from the time "Past". The truth you discover for yourself is your wisdom and that only occurs at time "Present" or "Now". This is what makes you perceptive, free and responsible.
Religion that represents particular group of people with particular beliefs ( you may call Sect or Cult) in human history for ages has devided man and has never established order or peace. You can disproof with your study of Religion but the fact remains true.
Najupl: Yes, I wish humans could belong to no nation, no caste, no creed, but to the Life itself. I agree with you that I belong to no nation in my heart and I wish that could have been the reality to me. But I assure you that I am not ultra-communist. I think as a social creature I have to think in the light of social walfare - that is for the basic human rights to survive with some freedom. Therefore, I insist in Multiparty Democracy - the king and republic is secondary importance.
Good bye Sirs....
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 10:33 AM
"Sitara, I think any personification from image Brahama to Soul is the illusion of the human mind that insists on the value of time "the Past". "....PVS
Any idealism to translate/fit into human factors and circumstances is an illusion!!! And I rest my case.
"It all depends on my attitude that "Do I worship the Geeta as my authority or do I study to find out about my own ignorance - revealing self-knowledge (discovering the truth about my self-ignorance)."....PVS
.... And the quest for the revelation of self-ignorance is a work in progress... the discovery of the ego is just one little elusive spark.... until then, ackquired knowledge is loud, boisterous, condescending and full of hubris!
And I wish you well!
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| Padme |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 10:48 AM
Here I see the same dogma that is prevalent in today’s troubled world, "my belief and knowledge is better than everyone else" "if no one agrees with me they live in a herd as an average person (not full fully developed humans)" I don't know about all of you guys but I fall in the second category. :-(
The root of the problem in the world today is not religion or culture it is a belief that makes people think that they are better than everyone else. If they change their perception this world will be a beautiful place. This perception begins from each one of us, from within our hearts.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 11:08 AM
Padme ji...
Amen to that!
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 11:22 AM
Sad that this discussion is over, and glad that PSVF, although at the very end, did understand the true spirit of sajha kurakani, and stopped calling everyone else puppets and spoiled brats. Our differences aside, this was a learning experience. Of course, we have our own views and version of the TRUTH, we should not just DISMISS the other views, because by comparing and contrasting our views with that of the OTHERS, we learn how to think critically. This also forces us to think and come up with enough evidence/sources to back our earlier claims or what's that we believe in. So, its a win win situation for the both parties because at the end, the both parties involved in discussion learn to think CRITICALLY. Of course, its a different matter alltogether when totally baseless claims are made, then you have the rights to CORRECT that person. And tell the person(S) RIGHT AWAY that the VERIFIABLE evidence tend to show something else.
Interesting views of everyone, a true learning experience for me. Thanks to Sitara for her one liners (however towards the end, the one liners became a para or wto with a Sanskrit Slok), SuvaChintak for his humorous take on issues, Rajnpl for presenting his views in his own very style and PSVF for making us think. Come on we all can discuss, present our stands and answer to the quesries, without having to make anyone sign the Treaty of Versailles, hoina ta?
la, ma pani formally out. PSVF, good luck in your quest to do away with the Secterian Feudalism in Nepal.
By the way, what do you all think of the Syrian Foreign Minister's remarks on Israel? I thought, he had some valid points. The French showed that they are still continuing with DeGaulle's legacy, and wouldn't succumb to the US Pressure easily. Anyway, it was interesting.
.
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 09:12 PM
Most probably all of you who took part in this thread do not want to go beyond the collective consciousness or beyond the beliefs and values of the tradition that are given to each one of us as part of our upbringing. This means since you have been grown up and are literate you do not want to turn and see with your eyes. This means things that you find senseless you try to think over or question it for clarity.
For example, Sectarian Feudalism in Nepal are ladden upon people by the rulers like Shah dynesty and Rana attocrats. This system is based on the Sectarian propogandas such as the king is the incarnation of god, etc. By the way, I do not have to away with Sectarian Feudalism in Nepal. But the time and its evolution that will come out of the education and economic prosperity will do away with it. But if we could do it consciously thinking over it creatively, establishing institutions and legislation to erradicate such regulations, attitudes, working ethics etc we might establish better system thatn eventually changed system.
It is only the question of establishing or living our daily life in a culture with thinking over matters that are senseless, meaningless, ignorant, superstitious, etc. By dialoguing among us, by thinking together we can establish a culture that will become the corner stones of our society.
Thanks all for participationg in this thread.
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| Vision |
Posted
on 14-Feb-03 09:19 PM
Hmmm much mellower Psvfsolutions. Looks like lesson is learned
Iso freak, you da man!
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| Padme |
Posted
on 15-Feb-03 01:59 AM
sounds like a broken record with only one of the mike working.. :-)
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 15-Feb-03 04:12 AM
Again you are misunderstood psvf although I support you idea to survive in your own idea.The word FREEDOM has different meninng in terms of the political perspective and the religious perspective.
"One thing seems to be common on me and the PSVFSOLUTION is the we are both the sort of SURVIVORS."
I do respect your way of living,way of life and the way of everything else.Yes,You can again say living for the surviving is the PRIMARY IMPORTANCE.And to live in the social structure is the SECONDARY IMPORTANCE.That should should have its own freedom.And consider you support any given party.Threre is no harm for the social structure for the anything peacefully.It can be anything politics,religion,daily life or the certain activities.
One should always beware of what's going around and there begins the RELIGION and the POLITICS.I can also assure that the religion can be the way of life in the certain geographical region and the politics can be the globally.Politics enhance your daily life and the nation.Religion enhance the spiritual activities.
The polling system in the sajha has the DEMOCRACY.And this also come under the basic right of the human beings.They can do whatever they like only the termination is the consequence.It can be good or it can be bad.The contemporaay example is NEPAL and the SAJHA.
Onething common on the religion and the politics is that they both has the leaders.It can be any given politcal system or the any given religion.To survive in this way of life wehave to follow them till the certain degree.That also come under the democracy.Sometime people says democracy is better than the religion although they are two different stage of life.
It is not possible in the earth that you always go in your own way.If you always do so then society start to call you FREAK.
here again"It is only the question of establishing or living our daily life in a culture with thinking over matters that are senseless, meaningless, ignorant, superstitious, etc. By dialoguing among us, by thinking together we can establish a culture that will become the corner stones of our society."-PSVFSOLUTION.
You are right here till the certain degree but donot forget to see the nepal from MECHI to MAHAKALI.I respect you idea.But you should be aware in all the stages that will come across you.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 15-Feb-03 08:05 AM
Social values cannot be changed by attacking the very principle it resides on. Just a thought..
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 16-Feb-03 12:22 AM
Mr. Rajunpl: Show me where does society exist - within the mind frame of each individual who live within the certain size of terrotory - "Mechi to Mahakali or within 140 thousand squar mile" or somewhere else you can so me?
Similarly where does politics or religion or culture exist? If you and me or any one else can see the fact that all that we do in the name of country or society or politics that all exist within the mass of our brain cell, that is called mind, then our perceptive changes. You may make a temple or building or flag as the physcal symbol of the society or nation, but where does its full picture exits?
If you think with patiently you will find that you do not need leader for you to understand on your own, especially in Religion. As I say religion is an individual freedom to see things as they are. But in the political arina you need leaders or representative to perform certain task for the certain group of people. Politics in its root is imbadded in the Tribalism. However Democracy if not perfect but a rational and humanly justifiable system.
So if you believe that society means the mind, behavior or attitude or actions of each individual who live in a certain terrory or boundry then you can say what Nepal is what each Nepali think or do in their daily life. The question here is all what each Nepali think or do are correct or perfect? Do we need to change ourselves to change Nepal? Is Nepali tradition is a perfect one so that it does not need any change? There are many questions like these may exist for us to ponder.
See what you think?
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| Padme |
Posted
on 16-Feb-03 01:07 PM
Society exists in mind?? Whow what a thought... Society exists outside of mind? HMMM...
People are not social animals they are a bi-product of feudal secratarian rule?
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 16-Feb-03 01:24 PM
hmm still on this? i thought this thread was going straight to the archives, anyways..
The question here is all what each Nepali think or do are correct or perfect? Do we need to change ourselves to change Nepal? Is Nepali tradition is a perfect one so that it does not need any change? There are many questions like these may exist for us to ponder.
Questioning the perfectness of traditions/culrtures means that you are questioning the collective judgement of the people. What's a perfect society/tradition? The first lesson you learn in your Anthro 1 class : There's no such thing as perfect and imperfect societies. Each society has it's own norms, values, beliefs, roles of each memebers . According to Ruth Benedict, what's normal in one culture is deemed abnormal in others, so there's no way you can compare cultures and societies and say, this culture is better/perfect. Of course, you can compare cultures and societies to understand the differences and the concepts of noramlity and abnormality, but comapring cultrures/societies to say that Culture A is better and Perfect that Culture B is WRONG, and is unaccepted in the modern socio-cultural Anthropology.
Taking about change in traditions/cultures:
Culture is shared values/beliefs/traditions of any given society at any given time. Note: Any given time. Culture is like a running stream. No culture can survive without going through a series of changes.
New traditions emerge with time, you can’t expect nor force people/traditions to change overnight. Of course, there are some examples of sudden changes and believe me those have done more harm than good. When you impose new ideas/traditions/beliefs on people, people will accept or comply with it for a shot period of time but in the long run, they will resist the new idea and would resort to their old customs and value systems.
Society isn’t an imagined concept, it’s the truth. Nationalism, on the other hand is always imagined, that’s why nation states are nothing but imagined communities.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 16-Feb-03 01:26 PM
Society isn’t an imagined concept, it’s the truth= society isn't an imagined concept, its a reality.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 16-Feb-03 01:57 PM
Societies existed at the time Homo Habilis. Archaeological evidence from the Homo Habilis settlements prove that they used to eat in groups. Homos probably got this idea of society from the apes, whose social structure, I assume you are already familiar with.
From societies came traditions. BY the time of the Neanderthals, they had some complex traditions and rituals. If you are in the US and if you ever visit DC or NY's American Museum of Natural History, go check out the replication of Neanderthal Burials. Also, the cave paintings of Europe, tells us that they (the Neanderthals) had already started to think of the Paranormal phenomena and as a result, they had some complicated rituals and traditions. Then when Jericho and Sumeria emerged as nation states by modern standards almost we find the society became even more complex, even more RITUALISTIC and had inherited/developed traditions.
If you have time, take a look at the relevant chapters of
International Systems in World History: Remaking the Study of International Relations
(Buzan and Little) to understand the develkopment of societies, early human settlements and their search for leaders and early chiefdoms.
Also any book on archeaology and socio-cultural anthropology will help you understand the meanings of Culture and Tradition.
To find the answer to your perfectness of Culture/traditionchapter on Normality and Abnormality in Patterns of Culture (Ruth Bennedict).
To understand the impacts of sudden Change in social values/systems, Read Aihwa (??) Wong's "Spirits of Resistance"
Again, you can dismiss all the knowledge that's in these books as being second hand knowledge, but I being a total dumbass, I had to and I have to rely on the second hand knowledge i get from these books to understand or in my attempt to understand varrious issues.
(WOW, I am glad i took anthro classes ;-)
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 16-Feb-03 02:07 PM
Read this " Then when Jericho and Sumeria emerged as nation states by modern standards almost we find the society became even more complex, even more RITUALISTIC and had inherited/developed traditions."
When Jericho and Sumeria (Note: Sumerian is now used to describe the region and civilization, but Sumeria was a political entity, thus a nation state) by 3000 BC, we find the society (--ies) became even more complex, even more RITUALISTIC and had developed/inherited traditions.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 04:08 AM
PSVFSolution jyu, I know I have more to see and learn in this world.I have never interested in the social studies neither experienced. But I have the series of the experience when i am/was into it.
In one way or the other ISOLATED FREAK jyu is correct in his own idea.He believes that the society is the hierarchy and its like stream.In my opinion that again limited in the piles if the social science books.
As far as I am concerned with the psvf you are again comparing the NATURAL HISTORY of the humans with the single BRAIN CELLS.The brain cell is nothing more than a functional unit of the brain.Brain is just like a new born child everything is new for him.Whatever he sees in this world is the new experience for him.
Collection of BRAIN CELLS make the brain and the brain makes the system. It can be
1.social system
2.Political system
3.religion
4.science/tech
5.civilization/civics
6.Literature .......and many more.
Your question is where does the society exist ? and your answer is the brain cell.But what do I say is that "once you stepped in a system called life,next system begins."It can be any of the following above.There comes a society.Depends on the geographical region of the earth.
In africa their societies begins with the slavery and they learn to cope with it and they made the society based in it and they are still in it.In america the socity begins with the immigrants of the multiple nation.And they learn to cope with it and they made the society based in it.In europe the society begins with the war there comes a DEMOCRACY/REPUBLIC/FEUDALISM/INFIDELISM/IMPERIALISM and many more.And they learn to cope with it and they made the society based in it.Here is how the society begins in my point of view.
Here comes a NEPAL.As far as the history know.(assuring i am not the history student)There is no recorded history before the LICHHAVI KAAL.There use to be an indipendent states with their own kings .There was a another example of the society based on the FEUDALISM.
"Without having the series of change but system nepal is here till now.The stream flow but having no season in the nepalese perspective."-the survivour(rajunpl).That's the reason i don't believe in books sometime.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 04:23 AM
So the PSVF jyu,FEAUDALISM and the DEMOCRACY(DEM. REP. in your words)First sees where i am means which geogrophical region is it lying.He(Feaudalism) also sees will the other peoples brain cell will take me over or i will to them.I n the context of nepal he win.
If you want to see the theoritical perspective of the democracy and again compare to nepal .The freedom of the speech was better in the tribhuvan era in the 1950's better than in the gynendra's period now in 2003.
The question regarding to the nepalese tradition, it is ais a disaster eversince the formation of the country called NEPAL.But what I would like to blame PSVF is
1. YOU ARE ONE SIDED.
See what you think now.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 09:06 AM
Dear PSVF You asked me where does the society exist and you diverted the whole system or your explanation to the way of life.Again I am saying I have no idea about the on and off going around the wotld and I believe my small world.Sometime I reach into the point of the isolation.
"I can give petition for the any given system and I can be rebellion to the any given system"-THE SURVIVOUR(RAJUNPL).
I can see crystel clear that the ISOLATED FREAK and the PSVFSOLUTION is heading towards the WAY OF LIFE.Let me give some of the definition.
1. CHARLES DARWIN : He explained whole evolution of the living being in the THEORY OF EVOLUTION and the GENETICS. Now all went to wrong and after few years most of them will end up in failure.his way of life also proving wrong scientifically.
2. KARL MARX: His way of life in which he explain communism is inevitable for the govt. also went wrong after the demolishion of the communism in the eastern europe and russia.His COMMUNIST MENIFESTO Is nothing other than a simple principle this way his way of life is failure.
3. WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE: His way of life in love/passion/posession in the form of the drama and poem doesn't seems to be efficient for the life of the human.There is something more .this way his way of life is failure.
4. KHAPTAD SWAMI (nepali): You can see his way of life in his "MANA BIGYAN" which has the defeciancy from the many side and now this way his way of life is failure.
5.ISOLATED FREAK : Superstions, beliefs, dogamas and thier rituals have never established order in any society or country because they divide humans with caste, creed, race, color etc; the live example the Middle East.THOUGH HE CLAIMS THATS NOT HIS IDEA.And he believes in the society is like the stream .I can show various point how it is wrong.
6. PSVFSOLUTION : Democracy, Religion and Science goes together in terms of its philosophical persuit. As Demrcracy stands for the freedom of speech (thinking), human rights, individual freedom with the attempt to investigate the fact for justice, so the Religion for the self-liberation, self-intigrity, self-enlightenment, and so the Sceince because examines the idea that are supposed and discovers the fact that exist now - "water = H2O" - origin - Atom - Elements - Molecules. Scientific facts exist Now at the present moment; Religious mind makes an individual awake at Now to see things as they are for his perception therefore self-intigrity and freedom; similarly Democracy addresses crises at present moment for justice and clarity for human rights. -psvf. hIS LITTLE CRITICS ALSO HAS SOME MAJOR DEFECIANCY.Though there is no-harm in believing any given system.
7. THE SURVIVOUR (rajunpl) : As far as i am concerned to my little knowledge I have my own theory of the social structure in relation to the theory of the above nature .
SHORT DESCRIPTION:(PROPERTIES OF SYSTEM)
(a) FACTUAL THEORY: History itself can be great example for this.You cannot turn infidelity to the social structure neither the social structure to the infidelity.etc ...etc.
(b) NATURAL THEORY: Nature has its own law in any given character of the any given system.Externel force cannot change it.
(c) UNIVERSAL THEORY: The nature of any given elements properties will remain the same unless the change in force of gravity.It can be taken in all perspective.
1.social system
2.Political system
3.religion
4.science/tech
5.civilization/civics
6.Literature .
-THE SURVIVOUR(rajunpl)
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 09:08 AM
I am sure PSVF/IF will correct me if I am wrong.
|
| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 10:22 AM
Rajunpl: I asked simple of simplest thing that from where all this cacme that we humans hang on - 'from the mind of our brain cell or else where?".
I personally do not see else where than from within our each brain. That all that we hang on - phylosophy, ideas, politics, religions, temples, Nepal, Nepali all that come from the brain. Not from else where. The name Nepal and Nepali are the inventions of the brain. Nepal and Nepali did not come from else where so Nepal and Nepali are not especial on earth. Why don't you face this fact?
Similarly, the caste system of Hindu tradition is the invention of the brain therefore caste system is nothing especial than brain's clever tricks to do away with the weak and helpless people. The caste system has nothing especial or devine. But a group of humans belong to the caste system and to name Nepal and history and believe in it then the birth of dead brain comes forth in that group of humans - which you call society or nation or Hindu or Muslim.
Evolution with human brain that what matters. If the brain sees instead of carrying a load on the sholder or on the back it would be much easier if 2 weels discovered and push the vehicle with the stuff; in stead eating with hands it would be much hygenic to discover sticks that can help eat and wash them clean, also eat less because the lower abdomen takes about 15 minutes to rich food there and unless food rich down ot lower abdomen satisfaction does not occur and eating with stick will makes eat slowly and thus eat less, etc.
The evolution of brain which has made this much possible at this time and point (in this 21st century) you and I have been able to come to the first world to study, and set up sajha.com for this Kurakani.
But tradition like ours, some so called religions like Hindu, Islam, Christianity, Judism with all superstitions have imposed thier craps in human brain and stopped evolved. I personally think the so called Nepal and Nepali tradition has for long time stopped to evolve from its brain dead tradition.
For all that which have come out before us as things or ideas have come from evolving (developping brain) or unevolving brains. Thing that are creative such as invention of the chopsticks are from the evolving brain. But things like caste, superstitions, etc are from non-evolving brain.
Thus Nepal and Nepali tradition fall into non-evolving brain. The developed nations are in the realm of progress and progressing in a creative area are the result of 40% brains from 100. In Nepal we have may be at this time 5% evolving brain.
Thus to blame politicians, Democracy for last 12 years hard time is the reaction of the non-evolving brain. Basically, for brain to evolve it needs freedom, thinking, questioning, and investigating and that all is possible in a Multiparty Democracy.
I personally thus question the Nepali tradition that have taken things for granted such as Sectarian Fuedal governing system, Hindu beliefs, superstition (this does not mean the Vedic thoughts from Veda and Upanisadas are not true), caste system etc.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 10:39 AM
>I personally do not see else where than from within our each brain. That all that we
>hang on - phylosophy, ideas, politics, religions, temples, Nepal, Nepali all that come
>from the brain. Not from else where. The name Nepal and Nepali are the inventions of
>the brain. Nepal and Nepali did not come from else where so Nepal and Nepali are not
>especial on earth. Why don't you face this fact?
Why cannot YOU face the fact that "Sectarian Feudalism" is the creation of your (fully and or under) developed mind??
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 01:11 PM
hmm, rajnpl, great nalysis there. you are absolutely right and your questions have made me think. I will certainly get back to you with the answers. Once again thanks for your tireless effort to bring in your views.
PSV solutions, now you are denying everything.Not only soceities, but religions and even nation states. Your last post on this thread does not make any sense to my underdeveloped non-evolving brain. You sometimes say, you are against the society, then you go on attacking religion, then traditions, then knowledge, then everything and anything.The only thing that you are yet to do is to deny our existence. Yeah, where do we live, in our imagination, and that imagination is a product/bi-product of non-evolving brain.
Even the societies of the apes are based on hierarchical social orders and they have their traditions (silverback of gueriilas and so on). So, you CANNOT imagine a society in which people don't look for leaders who are stronger and powerful than them as a security measure. This is a fact. The Lords of medieval Europe didn't drop from the sky, the societry created them. Likewise, Kings and Presdents did not stem from the ground. People's search for security and ORDER in societies/nation states gave way to their rules and regimes.
What you are doing here is attacking everything as being the products/bi-products of secterain feaudalism. That's fine, but in the process of explaining your secterian feudalism to non-evolving brains like our's, you seem to be promoting your own SECTERIAN FEUDALISM by attacking every view as being procuts of feudalism. And this makes you no different than others.
Either you failed to make us (atleast me) understand this theory or I failed to understand it..(now that opens up for a whole new discussion).
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 10:12 PM
Padme: I do not think you are able to understand the fact that the society exist within the human brain as an entity and all that humans have done in the name of society have all come from within the brain. I am sorry if you had hard time with your brain to see this light, but as far as I see what I wrote puts me in the same basket as you are. If you thing you are SUPERIME NEPALI - I give no shit to it. To me Nepal and Nepali with its present tradition and rest of the mess stinks - especially the middle class mediocare brats like you.
ISOLATED FREAK: I am not against any society, nation, ideas, religion, philosophy. But I argue if all that have come from within the brain of hunams then they need amendaments from time to time. You can not take for granted that Nepal and Nepali tradition are perfect on earth. (For example, I have seen many Nepali in Nepal and in the first world who think they are somehow different or especial from other people - "they call European and American "Kurre" yet they get 50% of their national budget from these tax payers, they get scholarship from these tax payers contributions, etc). I mean this sort of attitude as example, we need to amend or change in our thinking which takes in the BRAIN).
I am simply saying that of course there are society in our brains as our entity that gives us sense of tribal group, tradition, culture etc but don't you think they need amendaments; meaning don't our brain need change for something rational changes?
If you have hard time to see your brain within your skull that plays the fundamental role in your life and in a society that you believe as yours like Padme, then lets drop the subject. If not lets face it with our primitive country our primitive minds, even if falsely and superficially claiming to be linked with the ancient Vedic culture or Budha's birth place, that we need tremendous amont of amendaments or change with careful observation of our way of thinking, meaning the way our brain has been arrogantly stopped to evolve - with the feeling "We are the SPECIAL NEPAL AND NEPALI".
Padme most stupidly stinks at Sajha.com.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 17-Feb-03 10:24 PM
OK, let's carry on with this without being disrespectful to others.
I don't agree with you when you say we live in a Primitive society.What is so primitive about our culture, tradition and country? OK, i admit that there are some areas which needs development, but labelling the culture as whole primitive is not what I find right. What's an example of the PERFECT and DEVELOPED culrture? Going by your writing, you see that all concepts are stored in our brains and that needs change. I disagree with it unless you provide me with some credible theories/points. All these concepts inside your brain keeps on reminding you your indentity. Its often called your "roots", and my friend you can't progress much if you forget your roots. The reforms have to take place without altering the social structure and within the broader framework of societal norms, values and beliefs.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 01:14 AM
You wrote "....within the brain of hunams then they need amendaments from time to time. You can not take for granted that Nepal and Nepali tradition are perfect on earth."
Agreed. However, you are forgetting one important point here. Human thinking changes all the time and more evolved/developed/complicated forms of human thinking actually manifests in actions. But, this happens within the "primitive framework". The leaders were probably selected by "primitive" methods by modern standards in the early days, these days we hold elections. So, the thinking that leaders are needed to safeguard our interests prevailed in Pre-historic Africa and still prevails in modern America.
Now, let's hear your perspective.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 01:19 AM
See, although the selection process of leaders have developed, the underlying principle is the same, no matter which society you analyze whether African Tribes or whichever you think is the perfect society with highly evolved brains.
Another example is the institution of marriage, the underlying principle is the same albiet differences in performing this ritual in cultures across the globe.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 03:26 AM
psvf,
You can call me anything you like and I will disagree with you as much as I like.
You keep repeating the same thing over and over, again and again.
You fail to understand any reasoning given by anyone and keep repeating the same thing over and over again and again and again. Like a broken record.
You seem to have read some books have some idea of what brain is or what culture is but you do not understand the meaning of it. That is the reason I called fully?/ under developed concept.
You attack the society that you call your own?
You hate the people that you call your own? eg name calling justifies hate.
You do not understand the difference between how cultures are developed and societies are formed.
You like to blame every thing on "feudal" system, which is a growth of your own under developed concept of society.
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| Padme |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 03:31 AM
Hey! I am not a genious but if my comments bother you argue with it, reason with it.
Bairo le sansar nai bairo bhante ra karaucha ni bolda kheri, tyastai hola?
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 04:11 AM
PSVFSOLUTION you are rationalising darwin theory of evolution with the KHAPTAD SWAMI ,Which are the reciprocal of their kind of the nature.Bearing in my mind that I am not loosing the given conversation.
Again,the question comes to brain.PADRE/PANDIT/POPE/MULLAH will say that the brain is the gift of the god who brought in this world.Spiritually there is nothing wrong in their idea as well.
People like you and me will say that the brain is compose of the bunch of the cells forming tissues and the bunch of the tissues making the organ and it is as simple as that.
Your point is termenating in WAY OF LIFE and the IDEA FORMED BY THE BRAIN CELL.And now you can compare brain development from the STONE AGE,IRON AGE,ROMANS,BYZATIAN,VICTORIAN BRITIAN and the modern world .its not only that but you can show me the examples as well.
By the thinking of the IOSOLATED FREAK "society is a stream that flows with the changes" can be found right here.But what I would like to say is that all of them has their own perspective and their own law.I also explained that it depends on the geographical region.
You can find the difference between the people living in kathmandu valley ,rolpa and the jhapa.There is something to do with the geography again.Here comes my theory.
(b) NATURAL THEORY: Nature has its own law in any given character of the any given system.Externel force cannot change it.
What I suggest to PSVFSOLUTION is that go back to the history of nepal (though i am not history student again).How can you dare to compare the first world with ours though i did like your idea.Can you not see the gap of nepal to communicate with the western world that last for over the century(between 1815-1951)between the so -called ranas era.
We were in HIBERNATION that long period and we woke up again after the independency flourish in india and the communist did in china.
PSVFSOLUTION :But tradition like ours, some so called religions like Hindu, Islam, Christianity, Judism with all superstitions have imposed thier craps in human brain and stopped evolved. I personally think the so called Nepal and Nepali tradition has for long time stopped to evolve from its brain dead tradition.
Here your point lies between 1815-1951.And again in the nepalese perspective the ruling system is same though the face of the rulers varies.You can also says if the people love to live in the same condition why do the people like you and me breach their right?again go for my theory.
a) FACTUAL THEORY: History itself can be great example for this.You cannot turn infidelity to the social structure neither the social structure to the infidelity.etc ...etc.
Now let's go for the some sort of the marx idea.Being born in the given country each citizen loves to see the peace,progress and the development of that given society/country.Therefore development is inevitable from the every aspect.IS THIS NOW SOMETHING AGAIN THE GAME OF THAT BRAIN PSVF JYU?
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 04:26 AM
I am the SURVIVOUR again.Me also being the member of the planet me would like to see the changes in my kind of society.But I am not going to compare the offspring of the tiger with the offspring of the fox again.
PSVF JYU why would you like to change the system when it is naturally perfect?Though there is a hidden weakness that decayed since years and years.Leave behind your culture/prospectus/religion/literature.Where do you exist now?
OR just show me if me is wrong in my own kind?
-THE SURVIVOUR (rajunpl)
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| Padme |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 07:48 AM
psvf you have been some what sucessful in keeping some people out by resorting to cheap unhealthy stunts. not me baby.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 10:56 AM
Again let's not go for the personal attacks unhealthily any given character and the system has its own tradition and the beliefs if they enjoy within iteslf it is called FREEDOM .
PSVF you said" I am simply saying that of course there are society in our brains as our entity that gives us sense of tribal group, tradition, culture etc but don't you think they need amendaments; meaning don't our brain need change for something rational changes? "
If you through the principle of the so-called DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC you are wrong again.communist believe in the revolution not in the revisionism (amendments).Though i am not claiming yourself that you are absoulte communist.
What good did you see among the people of the first world? Them pasting LOREAL cream ,surfing internet,wearing gucci shoes,and possesing master-card and visa.What culture did you see good at? CHRISTIAN-ORTHODOX,CATHOLIC,ANGLICAN CHRISTIAN,METHODIST,JUDAISM Or simply their way of life ?
Some says "BREAKING THE CONTINUITY IS CALLED THE HISTORY." Do you believe in that ?
In nepal everything is wrong. Sometime I even think who made the nepal was wrong himself.Leaving behind all those patriotic moments.That is the reason I call meself the SURVIVOUR.
Let's not even go that far. Even if the KING Think he is running constitutional monarchy he is wrong .His beliefs in running govt. is somewhere in the communist method.I believe he is in dilemma that the one of the reason the government is always hanging on the instability.If he would understand the law and the principle of the constitutional monarchy everything would be right.Nothing would be on the pendulum.Now and again i am saying i don't believe in any system unless the director of that system is perfect.
It can be
1. constitutional monarchy.
2. republic
3 Democratic republic
4 other socialism based parties.
5.absolute monarchy
For e.g. You can see the major big (don't wanna take names )companies are government owned.Nepal is neither capitalist,monarch nor communist it is just the country without the principle.
I can sometime think that the " HISTORY OF NEPAL IS FAKE".
" Am i right or the wrong" ?
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 12:42 PM
I didn't meant to be rude to the king neither to anybody else.It just came-across when the speech was running without stopping."correct me if i am wrong again.
-The survivour
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 08:54 PM
Rajunpl & Isolated Freak: As I said before that I am not objecting society or culture or way of life as an ideal entity that is however sustained by the actions, beliefs or conditionings of inhabitants who belong to that ideal entity or name or image.
My question is 'Who consciously or unconsciously sustain that entity with certain value, beliefs, history etc as Real thing?"
The answer is obvious that 'Each individual human sustain the society."
The formation of society in human endeavor to me has two fundamental facets (though you may think of many, but let's take it for this dialogue's sake) one for survival - that is a technical or scientific discoveries that take place among humans and share them with each other such as discovery of grains and give them name as wheat, rice, corn, discovery of electricity, airplane, etc.
And other facet is the invention of ideas or beliefs or superstitions to meet the unknown, or to resolve the unequal distribution of natural resources, or to protect the basic human rights for better survival from feudal lords, dictators, autocrats, who consider rest of humans are second citizens.
In the first facet humans see things wholly (in and out simultaneously) around the nature that can help them survive physically with better conditions and share them with the rest of the humans in every society regardless with their different name, values and beliefs - Nepali or American. Of course, such discovery is first perceived by the individual brain of the society with his or her senses, body and mind. But it is shared without any traditional or cultural or religious differences.
But in the second facet of societal formation humans see things partially within the brain to figure out about the unknown to resolve the psychological fear that brain is uncertain of (things that can not be grasped as real at now but can only be speculated to resolve in the future). This is basically the question of societal time – the future (the future of the individuals who sustain society as an entity of their own). Since there is only one physical time “the present” for humans to live on in their society all inventions at this facet remain speculations – such as God, my soul, my life after death, heaven, etc. From their if society has formed with any value, belief, superstition, ideas, we have to give the benefit of doubt from time to time as they themselves unfold their invalidities. For these beliefs, values, ideas and superstitions have turned themselves in every society or religion or ideologies invalid. Thus societies have changed.
I do not question the first facet of the societal formation because the discoveries in this facet or momentum of human existence have corresponding reality or the fact of the discovery exists at the present time. Because it exist now the individual humans and their societies exist now. But I question the validity and existence of the second facet because this only exists in speculations and propagandas; such formations of society is violent and cause conflict because it shouts itself for its false existence. It victimizes the followers to be ignorant.
I agree with Rajunpl very much in many aspect of our dialogue. But I do think that sharing of the rational thinking or questioning with others can make some change in persons and society. It may be slow and bitter but it does some to think well on her or his own. I personally think that:
1. I am a human made up of bone, flesh, skin, blood, cells, molecule, and so on
2. I happened to born in a certain time and space from my mom’s womb in a certain society
3. Then I am conditioned to be think, believe, do things in my life according to my upbringing
4. Then I also think I have a mind that can re-think things of my conditioning that are not clear to me
I am sure you have the body like mine and have shit in your intestine and urine in your bladder which you carry around your society if not around the world. If you do not face that you are in the first place a human, then you are a Nepali with vacuum brain. I wish Nepal and Nepali come out of the mess, or as Rajunpl said without basic principle, I would feel worth being born in the Himalayas. Still I believe Nepal is a primitive country where we have kept in this 21st century 24% untouchable humans, if not 70% at list over 50% people under poverty and utter illiteracy with dark Sectarian superstition. I strongly think Nepali governing methodology is still in its core is dominated with the Sectarian socio-psychology.
I still advocate that Nepali individuals have to rethink the values, beliefs, ideas, tradition, culture to find out whether they have any validity honestly with out selfishness or personal fear to survival himself or herself and family. As all humans are selfish for survival it is human to be selfish but not with the false values, beliefs and their fear.
I hope I made it clear believe me I am not against the formation of society or culture or any other ideas or identity - but just questioning to find our how valid they are. If they have corresponding reality with the existence time, then I am more than happy. If they stand vague, propagandas, manipulative then they are questionable to find the fact that can relate to the reality.
Society or culture or tradition that has no reality, as Rajunpl wrote has no principle to be valid for existence. It is made existence with propaganda, belief, superstitions, fear to get shit out of self-ignorant individuals.
You may argue all society or tradition or culture or religion are like that and they function that way. It is fine, at list you saw it.
I do not think any bitter dialogue is unproductive. No matter how personally you bombard others thinking if you take part in the dialogue your brain by its natural phenomena will spark the light to see through something.
I like to try to disproof the Nepali Hindu saying “Gadha lai duyera Gai Hudaina”. In the first place a human can never be in that position unless he or she is made to be by Sectarian Feudal or he or she has convinced himself or herself to be in that position for the selfishness of losing the opportunity or from fear in getting punished by the king. I believe in the spirit of a child – “the king is negate!”
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| Padme |
Posted
on 18-Feb-03 10:57 PM
> “Gadha lai duyera Gai Hudaina”.
This is so true in your case. I rest my case.
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 19-Feb-03 08:11 AM
Solutions ji
I must say you have explored the Sophist's school of thoughts; Krishnamurty's social stratification defying analysis; Atmabodhic and Tatwa bodhic self exploration of the elements of what makes the human self and the Brahma gyanic thought of all inclusive in the universe and the human (as being a small but complete componant of a whole).
But, what truly saddens me as I read your arguments (they do have substance) is that along with such vast accumulation of different philosophies and theories; the stretching of your mind; the thinking out of your box.... you have accumulated arrogance and ego which eclipse and overshadow much of what you have attempted to relay!
Tha fundamental truth of wisdom is the ability to discard AHANGKAR, hajur.... and if you have not realized that by now....all your endeavors become moot!
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 20-Feb-03 04:24 AM
PSVF:My question is 'Who consciously or unconsciously sustain that entity with certain value, beliefs, history etc as Real thing?"
And I realise your prospectous.Nothing in the world is so-important or the no-importance.Let us go through our natural history.Like if someone says something to me it doesn't flow through my bloodstream but strikes my nerve.There is no-reason to bombard anyone perspective.
consciousness cannot be found in the human if they are in certein pressure.It can be the pressure of the family,study or living under the feudal environment.You have claim that you respect all the cults,rites,rituals,deities,devinities but you like to bringforward your own idea in relation to good or the bad.Being a concious human you will like to explain the good or the bad of the certain character of the system.
VALUE, BELIEF,HISTORY.All are the composition of any given system.For instance HALLOWEEN is also a beliefs among the christian communities that has the no-meaning.Likewise the JHANKRI in the hindu dominated cult is like another superstition.But,also sometime what you can see is that it really works.That means life is a composition of all the aspects.Certain particular motivation only cannot be the ultomate termination of our destiny.
Our dizzying culture is very rich in one aspect and nothing in other aspects.One cannot compare the religion with the SUNDAY MORNING AFFAIRS and the politics with the ELECTION DAY AFFIARS.
Like I said i am only the survivour and the people like me who has no-knowledge about the certain subject is hard to talk-about.I can only explain that I have been through in this unmatured age.
The various way of surviving ant the nature of the human that has been provided by the ISOLATED FREAK and the PSVFSOLUTION is most-learn critics to the aware-nepalese citizens.
Your two fundamental facets.
1. survial
2.societal formation humans see things partially within the brain to figure out about the unknown to resolve the psychological fear that brain is uncertain of (things that can not be grasped as real at now but can only be speculated to resolve in the future).
can be believed as a basi -basic kit.But if I would have explain the formation of society I would have expalin in terms of (a)spititual. (b) natural. (c) historical (d)universal (e) and the comparison in different aspects.
Which one would you prefer ?
PSVFSOLUTION:I like to try to disproof the Nepali Hindu saying “Gadha lai duyera Gai Hudaina”. In the first place a human can never be in that position unless he or she is made to be by Sectarian Feudal or he or she has convinced himself or herself to be in that position for the selfishness of losing the opportunity or from fear in getting punished by the king. I believe in the spirit of a child – “the king is negate!”
HERE YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN.It cannot be the king compulsory.It can be the nature of the human like I said there is a leader in the politics and the religion.FREEDOM is not perfect itself unless it has the positive rules and the regulation.OPPURTINUTY and the SELF-ISH are the two main ghosts in the human.
It can ruin even the most powerful person ,normal person or the people like you and me.Oppertinuty has no roots,no trails,no destinition,no inspiritation and no life.
-THE SURVIVOUR.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 20-Feb-03 07:06 AM
if I would have explain the formation of society I would have expalin in terms of (a)spititual. (b) natural. (c) historical (d)universal (e) and the comparison in different aspects.
Rajnpl,
I agree with you when you say that every society has good and bad aspects. This is universsal, there's no such society that can claim to be PERFECT. I guess this simple fact is too difficult for some people to understand.
I guess we all ahve explained the formation of societies by all those view-ponts that you mentioned above. From Pre-historic societies to contemporary societies, there's no single approach we have left behind in this discussion. Still, as i said, some people tend to believe in what they believe, so badly that they don't want to believe in what the whole world believs in. Its called FAITH in one's belief.
Nothings wrong with FAITH but unwillingness to believe in what others have to say or be oiffesive for no reason whatsoever (and actually take pride in promoting offesive-ness) is definately a CULT trait. Now, my question is, how can someone who is against SECTERIAN FEUDALISM promote a CULT(--arian??? is this a word??) trait? Isn't it like being aafai jhakri, aafai boxi?
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| psvfsolutions |
Posted
on 20-Feb-03 10:51 AM
To all sajha Pandits who took part in this Thread:
Is it possible to respond to things that are thrown at you without taking it personally?
Is it possible to respond with the curiosity to make observation on things?
Is it possible to respond to things that are thrown at you without taking it as opponent's point view?
Is it possible to respond individual participant without accusing or awarding, but at least try to understand honestly and from there respond?
Is it possible to have a dialogue with that honesty even though the other individual has brought his or her obersvation that really shatters your thinking, belief, understanding?
From the beginning I have said my observation is for further exploration (on sajha.com) to find out the fact whether it is true or false - on the premise that "true fact will have corresponding reality and it exist NOW as any scienticfic fact - H2O = water and it exist now" or "False will not have any corresponding reality thus does not exist now".
The observation "Sectarian Feudalism is the tradition governing system of Nepal embadded in all Nepali bloodstream, mostly among the group of people who have had joined the ruling dynasty for many reasons."
This observation is presented for further exploration to find out whether it is true and false. In this endeouver some may say right away it is false or true - still we can proceed further to explore it.
In my interactions with you Sajha Pandits sharing this thread I found it that you all take very personally, react immidiately, you do not pause to be in silence for your mind to observe, you assume you know the answer right away, you defend you country in a way you are that, you do not try to see from different persepectives or field, you are pretty stubborn, hardheaded worriers, you point other's that 'you are wrong" without a second thought, etc.
Thus, you come with your chestful hostility thinking other participate as your opponent and your try to prove his or her perscepectiive outright wrong. I have seen Pandits like you all my life that I lived in Nepal. There are many like you in Nepal and with your attitude and instant responses you are fully responsible for what is happening in Nepal, now and since long before.
Thus again I through at you Pandits the following observation and see how you react and see what attitude show up - "Nepali, Gorkhali or of a thoughtful responsible human individual":
1. Nepal remains one of the poorest countries even in this 21st century not becase with its snow capped Himalayas, ever green mountains, ever flowing rivers, birds, animals, innocent folk culture, etc but becasue of its rule who rules and their puppets who are stuborn and hardheaded for change from Hindu Feudal governing tradition and system to Secular Multiparty Democracy. The rulers are obvious Shah and Rana (still networked with Shah dynesty), whereas puppets come from different caste, mostly Bahun, Newar, Chetri and most opportunists - to be the permanent appointee of the ruler to look at ordinary people as 'Parja or Raiti'. The suffering of orinary people lies soley on the network of these rulers and their puppets and this network I call it as "Sectarian Feudalism Of Nepal".
2. Nepal will be a beautiful, prosperious and peaceful country, the land of Himalayas, if these class of people mentioned above let the ruling tradition change from the root with the establishment and process of Secular Multiparty Democractic governing system for 20 more years with patience and obstructions.
3. In all political parties of Nepal these class of people are snicked in with different masks without changing their old rotten thinking and attitude.
4. What is Nepali attitude? = "Do what we have been doing, we are the best though we may be clever parasites and suck the ordinary people and foreign donners."
Lets see how you react. Your attitude will make me feel proceed or stop proceeding further.
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 21-Feb-03 04:18 AM
ISOLATED FREAK JYU and the PSVFSOLUTION JYU.As I have been passed through your posts.They have got the good co-ordination of the principle and the real world.You have reproduced your ideas in a very civilized way.Under no-circumstance both are seen patriot in your own way.Though your ideas differ sometimes.Other fact is that people like me is also getting new experience in the context of my very own nation.
The new ideas brought forward again by the PSVFSOLUTION JYU are the realistic in the nature of his kind that can be classified as an natural.I am not the PANDIT as you said and you cannot point out only certain caste to be the puppet.If it is the tradition of the nepal other will do in the same way as their preceding ruler did.Will you move away from this fact ........?
PSVF:"The observation "Sectarian Feudalism is the tradition governing system of Nepal embadded in all Nepali bloodstream, mostly among the group of people who have had joined the ruling dynasty for many reasons."
This observation is presented for further exploration to find out whether it is true and false. In this endeouver some may say right away it is false or true - still we can proceed further to explore it."
Your exploration has the good characteristic vision but you belongs to the same community you have mentioned and the same geographical region.I mpersonally think that the traditional system better flows in the nerve system rather than the bloodstream your bloodstrem has the same functunal character like the everyone does.
Yes,there are many old decayed tradition among the nepalese society that has to be corrected.Nepal is not only such country in the world.As you have already mentioned above that we are in the somewhere in mediaval era of the western countries and they use to have the very same enviromment that we are having today,may be even worst.Only the difference is time never stops.And we are already in the 21st century.It is not inevitable to follow the good/bad old tradition.TRADITION is something that cannot be changed easily.It is the very slow process like the glacier movement.People and the community needs to be re-educated.
PSVF: "Nepali, Gorkhali or of a thoughtful responsible human individual":
1. Nepal remains one of the poorest countries even in this 21st century not becase with its snow capped Himalayas, ever green mountains, ever flowing rivers, birds, animals, innocent folk culture, etc but becasue of its rule who rules and their puppets who are stuborn and hardheaded for change from Hindu Feudal governing tradition and system to Secular Multiparty Democracy. The rulers are obvious Shah and Rana (still networked with Shah dynesty), whereas puppets come from different caste, mostly Bahun, Newar, Chetri and most opportunists - to be the permanent appointee of the ruler to look at ordinary people as 'Parja or Raiti'. The suffering of orinary people lies soley on the network of these rulers and their puppets and this network I call it as "Sectarian Feudalism Of Nepal".
2. Nepal will be a beautiful, prosperious and peaceful country, the land of Himalayas, if these class of people mentioned above let the ruling tradition change from the root with the establishment and process of Secular Multiparty Democractic governing system for 20 more years with patience and obstructions.
3. In all political parties of Nepal these class of people are snicked in with different masks without changing their old rotten thinking and attitude.
4. What is Nepali attitude? = "Do what we have been doing, we are the best though we may be clever parasites and suck the ordinary people and foreign donners."
Lets see how you react. Your attitude will make me feel proceed or stop proceeding further.
I think I have somewhere said" NEPAL IS A COUNTRY WITH A HIDDEN LEGEND IN ITS ENDLESS TRAIL WITH ITS UNCOMPAREBLE SCENE.You don't compulsory have to say nepali and the gorkhali again again you showing your tradition.Don't ever head towards the marx principle "CLASSLESS SOCIETY OF THE UNIVERSAL COMMUNISM".You cannot turnover some natural fact .For instance see the britian even now there is a class which is considered to be the one of the earlier civilized nation.Again class can have the different meaning.It doesn't have to be high or low compulsory.
Parasitism is the western culture in one aspect that remains all over the world .Nepal is not onlt the exception if you go for the reality.
PSVF :
1.what do you consider the freedom to be when there is a both class and the good/bad old tradition...?
2.Why don't you go to the natural fact instead of looking the society from only one angle......?
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