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| Username | Post |
| Biswo | Posted
on 07-Mar-03 10:59 PM
The protagonists of Nepal's recent drive to restore democracy are more complicated than we would like them to be. Look at UML, the party, even after ten years of practice of democracy, is going after Bamdev for merely expressing his views. I mean, it condoned Bamdev when he made mockery of election system, it didn't chastise him for his famous threat to bury 'raajaa, kaangress and panche lai eutai khaaldo maa', it had no problem when TIA gold smuggling was institutionalized under the auspice of Mr Gautam, and now, suddenly, it squirms because Bamdev spoke for constitutional assembly.Mr Madhav Nepal, let thousands flower blooms. One can't ask for democracy in the nation while simultaneously reprimanding its 'elected' central comittee member for merely expressing his views. -- Somewhere, in some corner of one newspaper, I read that a recent meeting of VHP[ that is a religious organization called Vishwa Hindu Parishad] guys in Uttar Pradesh decided to recognize Nepal's King as the king of all Hindus worldwide. A sweet relief, and a sudden feeling of megalomania it must have provided to our beleagured king, I guess. Our king, however, will do his progeny a great favour if he ignores his ambition, and tries his best to win the hearts of his subjects, most of whom don't wear saffron cloth, and has no bitter feeling towards Moslems either so are different from radical Hindus attending that meeting, residing in this side of Dashgajaa. I wonder what kind of mind these VHP fellas have. Their actions vis-a-vis Moslem minorities in India has been a disgrace to all of Hindus worldwide, and now they dare to announce a blue-blooded fella of KTM international king. Reminds me some kind of Nepali fellas who claimed they were claimed 'man of the year' by some obscure organization in the USA. And also this analogy might not be fair, but it is as irrational as Osama pretending is the head of the caliphate of Iraq[Arab world]. -- I still treat the news that Bagmati River's water is worthy of taking holy ablution these days with some degree of incredulity. It was not clean, transparent water but a surprisingly filthy, and almost-stagnant effluvium that I saw in my first trip to Bagmati.In those waters, I also saw how my future 'departure', as it was expressed in Balkrishna Sama in his Ichhchha, would be like. A man lives for dignity, and all his life, he strives to work for the betterment of the society.We pay our tribute to the man by providing a dignified farewell to his carnal residual. Everyone deserves this much. A clean Bagmati will hopefully encourage people to stay much closer to the burning pyres without closing their nostrils during the solemn ritual of departed ones. A clean Bagmati is one of the best news I ever heard from Nepal, and I am so much thankful to those all who made this possible. -- |
| Paschim | Posted
on 07-Mar-03 11:45 PM
Biswo jossiyechhan la :) I wholeheartedly share your energetic thoughts! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 09-Mar-03 12:54 AM
>Biswo jossiyechhan la :) Jaach sakeko din, ramaailo gareko matrai. |
| Harris | Posted
on 09-Mar-03 01:03 AM
Biswo, Good to see you in your form back again. I was missing your one-paragraph-per-issue-episodes. Enjoyed this after a long time. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 09-Mar-03 01:09 AM
Harrisji, Thanks for your compliment. I hope I won't disappoint you in future also. |
| ashu | Posted
on 09-Mar-03 04:31 AM
Biswo wrote: "One can't ask for democracy in the nation while simultaneously reprimanding its 'elected' central comittee member for merely expressing his views." Well, in these times, when most of us have seen how even educated, aware, otherwise sophisticated and globe-trotting Nepalis refuse to change their minds about issues even when they are confronted with evidence, is it any surprise at all to see the UML people -- full of reptilian, raw and crude emotions that most of them are -- behaving this way? Not at all. I would like to remind all of you that not long ago, Girija Koirala's "democratic" faction was also engaged in similar "disciplinary actions" against some of NC members who spoke up their mind against the party leadership. What goes around, comes around. ********* Re: Bagmati river: I live within one-kilometer radius of the Bagmati that flows in the Pashupati area. For the last several months, the River has been very clean, and the credit for cleaning it goes among others, to: a) Mr. Bidur Poudel b) Mr. Narrotam Vaidya and, c) to the conscience of the Bagmati: Mr. Huta Ram Baidya of Tripureswor. It's worth noting that in the course of making the River clean, Bidur-ji (and, to a minor extent, Narrotam-ji) has riled up many local powers-that-be and has made a lot of enemies against whose vested "let's-pollute-the-river-and-let-someone-else-pay" interests he firmly stood. To his credit, Bidur-ji remained positively stubborn and refused to back down, taking on his critics, one by one. Lesson? Up to a point, we can all can butter/flatter/charm/back-slap our way to success.. But to bring out real changes in Nepal and among Nepali communities, we have to be ready to be alone, ready to be attacked, ready to be ridiculed, and be ready to make powerful enemies and . . . eventually PREVAIL over them, as Bidur-ji's case has shown. The real story of the clean River is NOT that the river is clean. The real story -- for someone like me who loves the kind of human-interest profiles that The New Yorker magazine serves up -- is how Mr. Poudel struggled against the odds to get what he wanted for all of us: A clean Bagmati river. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Mar-03 06:16 PM
Biswo wrote: >>Reminds me some kind of Nepali fellas who claimed they were claimed 'man of the year' by some obscure organization in the USA.>> Apparently, there's this organization called "American Biographical Institute" that awards --apparently liberally -- "Man (or Woman) of the year" to anyone who pays them money for the award. In Nepal, I have come across quite a few resumes/CVs of well-known Nepalis, boasting of such honors from ABI. Reminds me of San's "Sajha person of the year" award, which was at least free and funny. :-) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Biswo | Posted
on 10-Mar-03 10:38 PM
>The real story -- for someone like me who loves > the kind of human-interest profiles that The New >Yorker magazine serves up -- is how Mr. Poudel >struggled against the odds to get what he >wanted for all of us: A clean Bagmati river. I also like the profiling in New Yorker. In fact, today I was reading one published in the last issue: that of Mr XXX who was the first person to make an empire of , guess what?, obscene movies in Columbus, Ohio. Btw, now that you have a medium to tell the tale, why not deviate a little from the tag of telling 'economics' and following Mr Poudel's trail. In another note, I have heard of Mr Baidya, and Mr Poudel. But, I was under the impression that these things were done primarily by anguished industrialist Mr (?)Chaudhary, who once shocked everyone by purposing to name Arya Ghat after his mother's name, but yet who was genuinely concerned with the issue. |
| ashu | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 06:15 AM
>>Btw, now that you have a medium to tell the tale, why not deviate a little from the tag of telling 'economics' and following Mr Poudel's trail.>> A good suggestion, Biswo -- though acting on it may take quite a while. I'll have to talk to Poudel-ji and see -- to do justice to my editors -- whether I can find some kind of a business/economics/finance angle to this river cleaning work. On anothert note, Binod Chaudhary, given to making grand pronouncements as always, seemed to have lost interest in the cleaning of the Bagmati River, soon after he made those promises. But his brother Basanta Chaudhary currently serves on the Pashupati Development Trust -- a Palace-backed organization that is behind the demolition of unauthorized/illegal buildings around the Pashu Pati area. ********* BTW, "obscene movies"? Tsk, tsk, tsk. As Frank Rich wrote in The New York Times last year, porn-movie industry in the US makes 6 times or so the money that Hollywood makes these days, making it, well, "the mainstream" of movie industry in the US. No wonder the public yawned through the whole Clinton-Lewinsky saga. :-) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| GyaNeX | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 10:20 AM
पश्चिम सँगै म पनि भन्छु बिस्व जोस्सिएछन ल :) जिपी Original Typed GyaTeX RoMaN Code: PaShChiM SanGai Ma PaNi BhaNChhu BiSWa JoSSiEChhaNa La :) JiPii |
| GyaNeX | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 10:26 AM
प्रजातँत्र मा पार्टी को बिरूद्द पनि बोल्न नपाऊनेभए केको प्रजातन्त्र। हैनत आशु जी जिपी |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 05:57 PM
Gyanexji, Lau Jossiyeko bhannuhunchha bhane.. -- Ashu, The figure New Yorker estimates as an annual revenue of the porn industry in USA is between eight and ten billion dollars, no source is given for the estimate though. That's an amount roughly equivalent to Hollywood's domestic box-office receipts. The profiling of Mr Reuben Sturman is an interesting one. Like Al Pacino, however, he was eventually convicted and jailed in the charge of defrauding tax, although in America of those days one could be jailed for selling obscene materials too. When Mr Reuben died, one of the 'heartfelt epitaph', as the New Yorker put it, was from Chattanooga Free Press. "The Smut lord is dead, " it said, "but the evil he and his court-coddled colleagues have done-the degradation of our nation's culture and the corruption of our youth-lives on." Hmmm.. |
| ashu | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 06:08 PM
>>>Like Al Pacino, however, he was eventually convicted and jailed in the charge of defrauding tax, Al Pacino? More likely, Al Capone, hoi na ra? Last year, Frank Rich had published a very long article in th The New York Times Magazine on the US porn industry. In that he cited some industry associations to come up with the figures. These days, I understand, studying how sex-related Web sites attract visitors and their strategies could be adapted for regular eb sites is big-time research for certain b-school marketing professors. As they say, sex sells. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| noname | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 06:31 PM
Some addition to Biswos's original heading: Complicated nature ..... Leaders of political parties are demanding a joint audience with the King. Are they expecting the King to pin down common agenda for them? If not, why do not they themselves put forward a common agenda to the king whoever gets the opportunity? Simple, they believe the King and the Maoists more than each other. On another note, King granted audience to Nepal for two hours and finished business with Koirala within half an hour. The Times of India - believed as advocator of the ruling party in India - ran an editorial couple of months back with the theme that UML should lead the interim government. The King is scheduled to embark on a week long private visit to India starting from March 18. Madhav Nepal wants a joint audience after King's visit, though there is sufficient time for that before the visit. What does these sum up to? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 11:16 PM
Ashu, it is Al Capone. oops. -- Nonameji, I think you are right about the internal feeling of the parties. They are still distrustful of each others, and that is true. But democracy is about dissent: different parties can differ in their views.I think it is important for us to recognize that NC, UML, RPP etc are different parties, they are different parties because they have different views vis-a-vis different situations, and so we shouldn't expect them to be unanimous in every issue. In our nation, what saddens me is the man who is supposed to seek a solution[for the broader welfare of people] from such dissence between parties is the very person who is seeking to get personal benefit from such interparty discords. In my view, one of the sorry things about our current politics is the nature of the king:rather than a facilitator, he has become a stalker, waiting for opportunities when democracy is seemingly vulnerable, and hitting hard exactly at the time for his personal benefit. That is why, the king has squandered a lot of goodwill towards the royal institution in the aftermath of the royal massacre and alienated even those who always passionately advocated for constitutional monarchy. I also noted the difference in time between king's meeting with Mr Koirala and Mr Nepal. It surely denotes the uneasy relation between Mr Koirala and the king , and the comfort Mr Nepal's company provided to the king. I have heard from some sources that the king has already told Mr Nepal that he will make him PM if he enlists supports from NC. I am also wondering if the king plans to sign any agreements with the government of India. I hope he won't. Such actions will, otherwise, have consequences. I also hope that he consults with every major parties before going to India. The king should also be given full support by everybody when he is going to India, because a weak and autocratic king can't gain a lot of things for the country. Anyway, when he is going to India, he is representing us all, and the parties should be ready to cooperate with him during his India tour, because whatever he does there will have consequences for all of us. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 11-Mar-03 11:45 PM
no name, hijo ko prakash chnadnra lohani ko interview on channel nepal was excellent.. hernu bho? "nepal ma pashupati nath bhanda thulo dewata chaina, raja bhanda thulo neta chaina".. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 12:14 AM
IFji, tapaailai kati samjhaaune:-) No one say Pashupati Nath is the most 'thulo' deuta in Nepal, Hindu dharma doesn't have any ranking among at least a few paramount gods, and as long as I know, in Nepal we have accorded equal status to all those 'super' gods. All gods are equally thulaa for us, Buddha, Pashupati, Ram, Krishna etc., they are equally thulaa. And rightnow, the king is also one of the 'thulo' leaders. He is no way 'sabbhanda' thulo leader. Prakash Chandra Lohni has often been wrong, he has often been on the wrong side of the history during his long career in the period remembered as a shameful one in Nepal's political history,and believe me, he is wrong again:-) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 12:32 AM
biswo ji, nepal ko rastra dev pahupati nath.. aaba nepali hindu pantheon of dieties ma sabai bhanda important position mahadev ko..tyasmathi pashupatinath ko..tyasaile Buda Paka haroole "pashupatinath bhanda thulo deutra chaina, raja bhanda thulo neta chaina bahnchan.." aani, malai ni kuro thikai lagcha.. Biswo, ahile ko nepla ma.. i think the king is the only THULO leader, all others have shown that they care about their party interests more than anything else. "Prakash Chandra Lohni has often been wrong, he has often been on the wrong side of the history during his long career in the period remembered as a shameful one in Nepal's political history,and believe me, he is wrong again" hmm.. i am not saying he was/is always right, but believe it or not RPP leaders have emerged more democratic, more understanding, more respectyive and receptive of the people's views these days that girija, makune and rohit. |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 12:48 AM
>>>Biswo, ahile ko nepla ma.. i think the king is the only THULO leader, all others have >>>shown that they care about their party interests more than anything else. ---Now we are deciding between THULO and the THULEST leader, right? We are picking the best among the worst leaders. THULO or the THULEST does not matter. Cry the beloved country! ---As Biswo pointed out above, the political parties do have differences does not mean they are not democratic or they care more about party interests more than anything else. >>>hmm.. i am not saying he was/is always right, but believe it or not RPP leaders >>>have emerged more democratic, more understanding, more respectyive and >>>receptive of the people's views these days that girija, makune and rohit. ---You are a big fan of Lohani, aren't you? --- I do not like Lohani--in fact, I strongly disapprove 99% of what he says--but I must confess here that this dude is very articulate. He "rocked" the "Bahas karyekram" (NTV) when he was called by that witty prabakta, also the moderator of the program, whose name I do not remember. ---Please provide EVIDENCE to your claim that "RPP leaders have emerged more democratic, more understanding, more respectyive and receptive of the people's views these days that girija, makune and rohit." (last line of your last post). -------------- My Stance: Give UML a Chance! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 01:13 AM
main batii, just agreeing to what PCL has to say regarding the present crisis does not make me his fan. aaru kura.. tyastai ho.. yeso nepal ma ho bhane bhetera chiya khau.. Bahas ko karyakram sanchalak ko naam Indra Lohani ho.. kuro k bhane ni mainbatii ji.. yo rajniti ko guff chahi jati tankaye ni tankincha.. ani feri hamro nepali ko chahi.. rajnaitik bichardhara milena bhane hindi filim ishtyle ko dushmani hucnha k..bekkar ma sadhai khukuri liyera "kutte kamine mein tera khoon pi jaoonga" bhandai.. sabai lai aafnoi kuro thik lagne.. feri hernus na.. yo rajniti bhanya bujhidai nabujhine.. jati tauko khyaye pani..aafno ta deemag ra tyo swayambhu ko ufrine.. rookh chadne daju bhai ko deemag ko aaakar prakar banaut ustai cha re asti doc saab le bhanya.. tyasile ma ta daya baya mathi tala ko kura bujhdina.. jhyamma ufrera chyappa samatera bigarna maan lagi halcha.. k bha hola kunni? aaja kaal nepali chapa haroo ma.. yeso padhda aani mero swayambhu pashupati tripureswor area ko daju bhai sita rookh chad=dai.. bijuli ko tar ma jhundi dai ra chana ma chad-dai guff garda tini haroo le tyahi bhane.. maile ni tyahi lekhi diye.. la k cha bichar.. yeso bhetam na.. ma pasal bhitra chirera dui chaar bottle beer.. 2-4 gilas chiya athawa cofffee chanda magera lyaula ni.. chanda diyena bhane khosera.. aani swayambhu ko bharayang ma nabhaye kailash jane bharyang ma basera khaula.. hunna..? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 01:22 AM
biswo: justa quick comment on the King's upcoming visit to India: What makes you think that the King will sign agreement(s) with India? Remember, we have never succumbed to the Indian pressure and there's not a singole agrement with India that's ben signed by teh king.. sign garna mantri/secretaries janchan.. re.. malai euta sathi le hijo rookh chad-ne kram ma bhanya.. aaba tapai lai bhitri kuro k ho tha cha bhane bhandinus na khusukka kaan ma.. ma kasailai bhandina kya re.. |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 02:35 AM
Isolated Freak (sorry, I do not use "Ji"), Swambhu ko tapaai ko (ra aakhir mero pani) saathi haru laai k sandesh puryaaidinush bhane aba Simhadurbaar haakne paalo tini haru ko! Prajataantrik mulya ra maanyataa anushaar raajyako saancho maathi sabaiko baraabar hak huna parchha. Bouddiktaa kaa hisaable khaasai farak nabhaye pachhi Lokendra Bahadur Chand ra Pashupati ko Badaa-Hanumaan jallai Simhadurbar maa sajaaye ni k farak parlaa ra? :) Jokes aside, I am desperate to come to Nepal. And when I come, it should be me who should be pleased to meet with you, not the other way round. If everything works out as expected, you will know what I mean soon. I am a little hesitant to spill all secrets at once. :) And no, there shall not be Hindi film style animosity between you and me. Rest assured. I have kind of Ashu-behavior (note: just the behavior hai. Not the body figure or depth of knowlegde--I am far too shallow); I sometimes use a little piercing statements just to get more knowlege from the person I am arguing with. Biswo, I would supress my conspiracy theory for a while, at least Gyanendra comes back from India. Whatever compromise(s) he makes with India will less likely be against himself, which in turn means it is less likely to be against the interest of the people. One good thing about these kind of power-thirsty rulers is that they are way too concerned about their share of the land, their border, and the property they hold--in other words the amount of population and area they can rule over. Don't you think so? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 06:13 AM
main batti ta kasto tyo k bhancha halogen batti jasto ujyalo hunu hudo rahecha.. tapaiko sandesh sarokarwala jimewar tatha sambandhit manche haroo samma puryai dinchu.. ra yaha le mero bhetbarta ko nimantra lai saharsa swikarera malai abhari banaunu bha cha..yaha jasto mitho bolne, uccha bichar ko manis lai bhetna paunu ta mero lagi thulo khusi ko khabar ho.. TARA: We all know people have different views when it comes to discussing politics. Respecting each view is wha's called being democratic, but it doesn't mean that we should not criticize the extreme/ultra- aspects of any belief/ideology and system. With due respect to mademoiselle's knowledge and experience, I strongly object to the use of phrase "power-hungry rulers" to describe His Majesty. In my opinion NATIONALIST is the right and most appropriate word to use in this context. I see no signs on His Majesty's expresions and actions that can be described "undemocratic". As YUbaraj Ghimire brilliantly wrote on his Kantipur column "how can one expect to get a constitutional remedy/solution to an unconstitutional reccomendation!" The fact that intellectuals are supportive of the king at this point means that the masses are not really againts the active participation of His Majesty in active politics, if the time and the situations demands. This simple fact has yet to be understood by the leaders of our major political parties. I don't think His Majesty will sign any agreement with India. Contrary to popular beliefs, the Kings of Nepal have not signed/nodded to India's unjust demands. Being a Nationalist is not a crime, or is it? la maile janeko.. suneko kura yatti ho.. herau yaha haroo bigya barga ko bichar dhara k cha sunu.. ra if we could just get rid off our "birodh-ko lagi birodh manasiktra" for a while, and try to understand the ground realities of Nepal, we might be able to reach to an informed conclusion. Of course, the ideals of democracy are quite appealingw hen you are abroad and when you read it in books, but do those ideals/words translate into reality or is it wise to expect those to translate into reality in a country like Nepal which, at this point needs a leader than jokers and education than revolution(s)? I am not discrediting any party. I am sure all have a way to connect their parties' interests with that of Nepal's and Nepalis' interests, but in the last 12 years we did not see a single leader who could actually come up with domestic and foreign policies that would link the interests of the party, the nation and the people. This is why, I think the POlitical Parties should assess their performance of the last 12 years, punbish thjose who deserve punbishments, reward those who deserve rewards but before taht democratzie their own party or closed knit group, so that we know these people who preach democracy practice democracy. la maile janya yetti ho..pachi guff garaula... |
| noname | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 06:54 AM
IF, Ii did not watch that Program. In fact, I have not watched any program of CN. Though my friends from bangkok suggest that it is worth watching. PC LOHANI: Soft spoken, well informed and educated, he is not one from typical firebrand but ill informed politicans. Given a choice among interviews of AN KC/ Pradeep Nepal/ PC LOHANI, my choice would be Mr. Lohani. But, so far as domestic politics is concerned, I have often found him advocating wrong side (Donot ask for details!). I did not read your last posting. Will return to it sometimes later and read it! |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 10:01 AM
"The protagonists of Nepal's recent drive to restore democracy are more complicated than we would like them to be." Here we go again. Restore of democracy, huh? What are we talking about here? What democracy are we trying to restore? What is this democracy that we had and we are deprived of now? I am dead serious to learn. Who snatched our "democracy"? Can somebody enlighten me please? Since Biswo ji, you are done with your exams and may have some free time, would you mind explaining what do you mean by "restoration of democracy?" (After all it's your fingers through your mind that gave birth to this thread). To me there are no real or steady protagonists in our country-at least they have not surfaced. What we have in Nepal- who claim to lead - are nautanki heros. One nautanki hero says "restore the dissolved parliament" one day and couples of days later asks for a multi-party government…one day roars "may be king and Maoists are together but dono pe ham bhari padenge…then again also wants to cement the lasting peace but does not want to sit for all party meeting. Another nautanki talks about representing people but can't even tolerate any dissenting voice but keeps asking for 'sarbadaliya sarkar". What the hell do we need a sarbadaliya sarkar for? They can't even sit together for a brief meeting and they want to run the nation together? Damn! The biggest challenge these nautankis facing these days is nothing else but Chand government. What a pity! All these nautanki so called khate leaders are ruining the nation day by day. They keep asking the commitment of the king to the so-called democracy and the constitution. No one is allowed to ask them about their commitment because they are the most committed leaders to the "democracy" and the constitution-so they claim. Any question questioning their commitment is automatically unconstitutional. Give me a break! There is a group of people they love to label people (I have noticed few here in sajha too). You are not allowed to disagree with the people or the institution they love. If some one does then the person is tainted, his/her personality stands below them. If you criticize UML & NC you probably are labeled as either panche or rajabadi….if you criticize the king with the most damaging rhetoric available you are a Maoists. If you criticize NC, UML, King, and other bhara bhure netas you are either undemocratic or may be a foreign agent…if you criticize maobadis either you are "partigami". We have seen enough constructive achievements from the "agragamis" already. I care less what some one would probably label me but I don't like these nautanki heros who live like parasites on us. My name is not "Gyanendra saran" either. "One can't ask for democracy in the nation while simultaneously reprimanding its 'elected' central comittee member for merely expressing his views. " I agree to an extent. That extent is only limited to the concept of "expression". To venture beyond that, I need to be clear on democracy. "I read that a recent meeting of VHP[ that is a religious organization called Vishwa Hindu Parishad] guys in Uttar Pradesh decided to recognize Nepal's King as the king of all Hindus worldwide…..I wonder what kind of mind these VHP fellas have. Their actions vis-a-vis Moslem minorities in India has been a disgrace to all of Hindus worldwide, and now they dare to announce a blue-blooded fella of KTM international king." I am neither thrilled nor withered to read what VHP wants to do. If VHP said "the king of Nepal" that probably means whoever is the sitting king of Nepal rather than Gyanendra shah, I would guess. Your comment implies all the dudes sitting in that throne in Hanuman dhoka will be blue-blooded fellas. Even if they want to recognize gyanendra as their king, what is there to bother you? And who are the red blooded fellas, by the way? I hope you are not talking about those so called EX-MPs, Girija, Makune .. revolutionary "sirsatha" comrades…? In "hoste hainse" comedy presentation by MAHA jodi, they say the only gear of Nepal "bus" is the back gear and among other parts only the horn (just bhasans) works pretty well. Seems true. "A clean Bagmati is one of the best news I ever heard from Nepal, and I am so much thankful to those all who made this possible." Amen. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 10:32 AM
Sparshaji, What is your outrage? The major problem is I fail to understand what you are asking? Do you want all major parties to have 'same' view on everything? Do you think that is fair? Do we think we are monotonous society? We have more parties, because they differ in views. The mere presence of the king as powermaker irritates me these days because he , in stead of leading the nation to the path of reconciliation, has been the most opportunist and divisive one, using each opportunity of interparty disagreement for his benefit. Do you think everyday gaali spewed by Kuber Sharma and co. are theirs? King should take direct responsibility for such divisive remarks, because his lieutenants are doing that job. Yes, it is restoration of democracy, because we don't have 'that' rightnow. Do you see parliament working now? Don't you think people like Kuber Sharma running the nation in 'na haasko chaal, na kukhuraako chaal'.What's common between Kuber Sharma, Gore Bdr Khapangi,and Lokendra Bdr Chanda ? They were all rejected by people in the last election. And your assertion that Chanda government is the biggest threat to UML-NC seems to have come from out of your head. Chand government is a 'khetaalaa' government, no one cares about them. NC-UML don't deal with them primarily because they can deal directly with the king. Yes, our leaders have weaknesses. But who don't? King Gyanendra has more.King Gyanendra is no less opportunist [remember his pay raise], and less dependable. There is no point in glorifying him. But the major bone of content is we don't have power to do ANYTHING against him. That sucks. If you like Gyanendra, fine. If you criticize the leaders, fine. But you don't have to pretend we have democracy rightnow.Because exactly what democratic institution you think you find in our country rightnow? -- One more thing: IFji, and Mainbattiji were saying the kings don't sign treaty against national interests[IFji, even if a minister signs in presence of the king, does it make the king was not signing?]. King Mahendra's signed a treaty in 1965 with India, which was unequal and came to haunt his son in 1988. Saudi Kingdom, world's probably only country named after one family in addition to the Jordan, has allowed American troops to stay against the will of majority of their people. Bhutanese kings have signed unequal treaties with India.Qings appeased colonialists against Boxer revolutionaries. Romanovs sold Alaska to the USA. For their survival, and for their desire to cling to power, kings have signed unequal treaties with foreign powers in the history, and will continue to do so unless people become vigilant. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 12:01 PM
Biswo, One more thing: IFji, and Mainbattiji were saying the kings don't sign treaty against national interests[IFji, even if a minister signs in presence of the king, does it make the king was not signing?]. King Mahendra's signed a treaty in 1965 with India, which was unequal and came to haunt his son in 1988. REALLY? WOW!!! THIS is a NEWS to me. Have you read the TREATY? Have you seen it? Do you remeber the clauses? What are the cluses in there? What is 1965 traerty all about? 1965 treaty was a military treaty, an one time affair for 5 years and the treaty had a provision that clearly states that if the treaty is not renewed after 5 years, it shall be considered void and null. 1965 treaty isn't what created troubles in 1988. So, Unless you provide me with credible verifyable sources, i won't believe in what you wrote regarding the 1965 treaty. Yoiur example of the Boxer Rebellion does not fit quite well in this context. And all other examples, except the Romanovs, have one thing in common i.e, preserving teretarial integrity and POLITICAL independce All those treaties, as I see it, can be said attempts to save their respoective nations from breaking apart or to avert a war. "The major problem is I fail to understand what you are asking? Do you want all major parties to have 'same' view on everything? " I understand sparsha ji's anger. he is angry at the inability of oiur party leaders to think above their persoanl interests, not even party interests! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 12:03 PM
Biswo, One more thing: IFji, and Mainbattiji were saying the kings don't sign treaty against national interests[IFji, even if a minister signs in presence of the king, does it make the king was not signing?]. King Mahendra's signed a treaty in 1965 with India, which was unequal and came to haunt his son in 1988. REALLY? WOW!!! THIS is a NEWS to me. Have you read the TREATY? Have you seen it? Do you remeber the clauses? What are the cluses in there? What is 1965 traerty all about? 1965 treaty was a military treaty, an one time affair for 5 years and the treaty had a provision that clearly states that if the treaty is not renewed after 5 years, it shall be considered void and null. 1965 treaty isn't what created troubles in 1988. So, Unless you provide me with credible verifyable sources, i won't believe in what you wrote regarding the 1965 treaty. Yoiur example of the Boxer Rebellion does not fit quite well in this context. And all other examples, except the Romanovs, have one thing in common i.e, preserving teretarial integrity and POLITICAL independce All those treaties, as I see it, can be said attempts to save their respoective nations from breaking apart or to avert a war. "The major problem is I fail to understand what you are asking? Do you want all major parties to have 'same' view on everything? " I understand sparsha ji's anger. he is angry at the inability of oiur party leaders to think above their persoanl interests, not even party interests! |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 01:44 PM
Biswoji, Let me clarify before going any further: My outrage is not directed at you. If you felt that way, please note that is not I what I intended. Ok, now let's go through your response…. What am I asking for is what you want? What is that "democracy" that you want? What is that democracy you want me to believe in and support? What will satisfy you? No, I don't want all major parties to have "same" view on everything. But tell me this on what all these major minor political parties share the same view? At least, I would think on the national interest they should. But do they? Hell No. They are all opportunists. "If I have the power, everything is good and all the bad things are done by others and if other has the power-that sucks" This is the attitude they live with. We have more parties not because they differ in views on how to take Nepal rapidly in the direction of development but they certainly differ in views as to who is the boss and who should be why? Duno sojyanu paryo ni! Yes, I think we are monotonous society. Why? Because we rarely press for change. We tolerated all these nautanki nataks and netas for 12 years hoping that they are the elected leaders from us and probably will hear what we want but all they listened to was their own heart and also the orders of their respective party. It’s like use versus them and we lost. The mere presence of king as a peacemaker irritates you but were you not irritated all these 6/7 years when socalled democratic government fail again and again to maintain peace? I would have applauded Makune or Girija or whoever if they had brought peace earlier when they had the opportunity. Were you irritated then when they were failing? One can't reconcile when the parties to the reconciliation are unpredictable and mere opportunists. I wish you should also have assessed the stinky and back biting behavior of these so called democratic leaders with whom you want the king to reconcile. Call me whatever you want but I am not "Gyanendra sharan". I have my own views toward him and I am not a gyanendra defender. I don't want him to call and treat us as "raitis or prajas". I want all his and other royal family members' income to be taxed. I also believe royal family members should be within the boundaries of law and violators should be punished. One should be responsible for his her action regardless of who he/she is. What Kuber sharma says is his responsibility. If his remarks are offensive he should be dealt with appropriate action. Don't blame the king every time palla gharko harke snores. How many times in the past have you held party leaders responsible for the action of their own or their comrades' statements? What results if any have surfaced? How many times have you in the past questioned the actions of the political leaders if they were constitutional or legal? We didn't have democracy, we don't have it now. You can't restore what we didn't have. I have seen our parliament work before. I rarely had any faith on that "khasi bazaar". In the beginning I thought may be the parliament represent us but those people there only represent them through their party. So, Makune is not my representative, neither is girija or surya bahadur. Parliament does not define democracy to me. Democracy is nothing but just a word- a magi khane bhado for these nautanki netas. If you want to restore the parliament where all these makune, surya, girija, badri…with their bhaktas can sing their song and keep peeing on the nation and the people they entrust their right to govern them to them. That's your choice but don’t expect me to accept them as my leaders or the defenders of democracy. "..'na haasko chaal, na kukhuraako chaal'.." true. I agree with you in a large extent but who was walking like a lion in the past? Of course there were and still are, actually growing in number, bagh ko chalama rajai garne syalharu. " And your assertion that Chanda government is the biggest threat to UML-NC seems to have come from out of your head." May be but I don’t understand then why every other day, nautanki netas scream " take out the chand government…" why the hell they care then? If they have all the power and the king is not supposed to do anything then why don't they remove chand government themselves? Who is stopping them? They can't do anything on their own except "raag alapne". "Yes, our leaders have weaknesses. But who don't? King Gyanendra has more.King Gyanendra is no less opportunist [remember his pay raise], and less dependable." I agree king gyanendra is opportunist but I don't agree he is the most opportunist of all. Such assessment is highly subjective. " There is no point in glorifying him [king]. But the major bone of content is we don't have power to do ANYTHING against him." So, Biswo ji, who you suppose should give this power to us to act against him? " If you like Gyanendra, fine." I don’t. If you criticize the leaders, fine. I certainly will. Unless new leadership emerges and proves its commitment to the nation and the people, I will continuously criticize these nautanki heros. ".. But you don't have to pretend we have democracy rightnow." I never said we have democracy now. So, there is point of pretending. Because exactly what democratic institution you think you find in our country rightnow? I didn't get this. So, I can't respond. Biswo ji, I am not against you. I am only expressing my views and oppose your views to the extent they contradict or challenge my views. Nothing personal. BTW, I saw your couple of pictures in the Net…with your family and friends….for a second I thought am I seeing Baburam bhattrai? [By baburam I only mean his appearance] |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 02:47 PM
Sparsha, I have nothing against you, but I would like to comment a little on what you said. --Don't tell me King is not an opportunist. What was the first thing Gyanu did after he came to power? He made a provision so that the palace expenditures could be determined by the palace itself, right? --You wrote, "Because we rarely press for change. We tolerated all these nautanki nataks and netas for 12 years hoping that they are the elected leaders from us and probably will hear what we want but all they listened to was their own heart and also the orders of their respective party." For your information, it took 30 years for us to topple Panchayat. Things take time. Only Maoists would vision making Singapore out of Nepal overnight. --You wrote, "How many times have you in the past questioned the actions of the political leaders if they were constitutional or legal?" Hatteri. We have done it several times. Our representatives in the HOR have done several times. What do you think were those vote of no confidence were for? The sad thing, though, is that we have no provision for Gyanu, whom you seem to have liked so much. -- You wrote "We didn't have democracy, we don't have it now." I agree. We need to get rid of the King, or "relegate it to the status of a Norwagian King who would have to run in his stained coat to catch the public bus" (Biswo's phrase). Do you agree? -- You wrote "Democracy is nothing but just a word- a magi khane bhado for these nautanki netas". That's true when it is misused, and when people like you and I are dumb enough not to understand what OUR role should be like. --You wrote, "If they have all the power and the king is not supposed to do anything then why don't they remove chand government themselves? Who is stopping them?" Answer: THE KING. The power political parties have differs from the one King has. The King is not supposed to do anything, but he is doing everything. That's the sad part, dear. -- You wrote "I agree king gyanendra is opportunist but I don't agree he is the most opportunist of all. Such assessment is highly subjective." Gyanu is the most indefeatable opportunist. Political parties' opportunitism can be cured (what do you think is the CIAA for?) but Gyanu's cannot. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 03:49 PM
Good to know that you have nothing against me, MainBatti. Let's move on.. Where did I write that Gyanendra is not an opportunist? In fact, I have agreed that he (G) is. Please revisit my previous post. What G did is not permanent. When we are powerful enough, we will make the rules. Right now, we aren't. Not because we are not capable of but we have other limitations at this time. Majority of the population is under the poverty line and struggles every single day to meet BASIC requirements for living. Our situation is more of a socio-economic (more economic) than political. At least so I believe. Thanks for the information, Main Batti but I never knew that we struggled 30 yrs to topple Panchayat. I doubt your information, though. We did not work all 30 years to ditch Panchayat. By the way, why you think Panchayat was bad? How did you asses its plus and minus points and how you think Panchayat was not the system for Nepal? Now, just because I have asked you these questions, don't turn around to call me a Panche. Just answer the questions if you can. I agree with you things take time to change. But what type of things are you taking about and what changes do you have in your mind? Tell me, how have you assessed the past 12 years in Nepal's history. To me, these past 12 years are SAD years for Nepal and the majority of us. I can't answer on what Maoists envision but I wonder why would they want to make Nepal as Singapore and even that "overnight". " Hatteri. We have done it several times. Our representatives in the HOR have done several times. What do you think were those vote of no confidence were for?" Those so called representatives in HOR were not asking questions for you and I. They were asking questions for themselves and their dharmasalas (parties). Most of the time, they were doing "birodh ko lagi birodh". Vote of no confidence was a leg pulling strategy to secure the ruling seat for the opposing dudes. They were not changing Prime ministers to make yours and mine life easier. I am not convinced. What they used to say in the parliament was "aankha ma chharo halne kam". Don't get me wrong; I am not against every representative. I have no respect for the major party leaders and their bharautes (girija sharan, makune sharan, badri sharan, surya sharan…). " We need to get rid of the King, or "relegate it to the status of a Norwagian King who would have to run in his stained coat to catch the public bus" (Biswo's phrase). Do you agree? " King is not the source of all the problems Nepal is facing. So, I doubt just by throwing off the dude and the gang from Narayanhiti will make us a prosperous nation and make us happy people. I would rather have no king than to have a king who has to run in his stained coat to catch the public bus. " That's true when it is misused, and when people like you and I are dumb enough not to understand what OUR role should be like." Since you also put me in the same "dumb" status as you, tell me where should turn to understand what my role should be. Let me understand. But wait you don't explain my role because you and I are on the same status-dumb. Remember? So, you think "democracy" is not like a magi khane bhado in Nepal these days? ", "If they have all the power and the king is not supposed to do anything then why don't they remove chand government themselves? Who is stopping them?" Answer: THE KING. The power political parties have differs from the one King has. The King is not supposed to do anything, but he is doing everything. That's the sad part, dear." So, the king is superior to them. They all (parties and their nautanki netas) agree on this right? The king is doing everything wrong and they can't do anything. Who is weak? Why do they beg to the King? Nepal belongs to the Nepalis and if these political parties represent us, why don't they prove it to the king? The political parties want to do "rajai" on their own, that's why they differ from each other and the king. Right now, India is making a dam close to Indo-Nepal border. This will cause serious problem in Nepal during monsoon. Why are these nautankis are quiet? Why don't they voice their solidarity against Bhutan on Bhutanese refugees? ( I am not talking about mere slogans and occasional references in speeches). These nautankis see nothing beyond lokendra in singha durbar and G in Narayanhiti. They don't have eyes for us, for the Nation. These party leaders don't even have time for their own parties. I don't beleive "Gyanu is the most indefeatable opportunist". My disbelief is directed at the "the most indefeatable" not at G or opportunist. Nepal needs leaders who can see beyond the party lines. National interest should be their top most priority. They should focus on socio-economic problem of the nation rather than political slogan. Whether G stays at Narayanhiti or at Nainital that is not my concern. I support anyone who works for the nation and the people. The nation of Nepal is ours-collectively. In the name of democracy, I can't support nautanki heros. No personal offense intended, MainBatti. So, don't think I am attacking you. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 05:27 PM
IFji, >Have you read the TREATY? Have you seen it? >Do you remeber the clauses? What are the cluses in there? Unlike you, I don't work for Shital Niwas [If I remember correctly your past postings] and I have little incentive to 'remember' clauses, and please don't ask these awkward, childish question about 'remembering' the clause. Just because I don't remember the clauses of SALT treaty doesn't mean I don't/can't talk about that. Frankly, do you think diplomats remember all clauses of the treaties they sign?And frankly, laopengyou, I thought you were going to be a great diplomat!! Let me ask this question to you, IFji,wasn't 1965 treaty, signed when King Mahendra was the solo head of Nepal, without any nuisance of elected government, emphasized that India will be the primary supplier of arms to Nepal?? Wasn't that the major reason India was furious at King Birendra's government in 1988 because the government was allegedly importing arms from China? If you say 'haina', then, well, we will proceed from there to the clauses and everything, I guess. -- Sparshaji, Glad to know your outrage was not aimed at me. Let me first make something clear to you. In the last twelve years, that you think we were watching nautanki, what was the news that came out of Nepal and ashamed us most? In my opinion, it was the news of royal massacre. A drunken prince killing everyone after consuming some 'kaalo laagu padaartha'. That news was not due to our leaders, that was due to the presence of the institution of monarchy. Palace sources also ashamed us when our players, then under the direct protections of some Shahs like Sharad Chandra and Dhirendra, were nabbed in LA Airport while coming to participate in Olympics in 1984.So, national shame was inflicted by palace to us from time to time. Rather, there were moments when residences of Male, Maldives were lined up with curiosity to see the freedom fighter PM of Nepal, Krishna Pd Bhattarai. Gyanendra Maharaj once said 'king's property is the property of the state'. Then, heck, did the nation of Nepal get the property of the king Birendra after the destruction of his immediate family? Were you lucky to know how much was his property? So much for the most 'thulo' and most 'dependable' netaa of our country. Imagine the outcry there would be if Gayatri Nepal were to shop saari of 'crores of rupees' in HKG, but were you outraged, my dear friend, when Kantipur published the account of a proud sari businessman of HKG saying he was selling expensive saris to our queen while our people were dying of hunger in Karnali.And, please don't put words in my mouth, because I didn't say " The mere presence of king as a peacemaker irritates me", I said The mere presence of the king as powermaker irritates me. You found the lack of national consensus in what issue facing nation? Rightnow, most of the parties in our country are converging towards a shared view vis-a-vis neighbors. It is not like before. I was reading the news about a dam being made near Kapilbastu which all parties condemned. We are maturing, and we are being better.So when you say "at least, I would think on the national interest they should. But do they? Hell No. They are all opportunists." I find cynicism. Which national interest are you talking about? If you are talking about unstability/crime, then let me ask you one question: you are now living in Maryland. I live in Houston. Our friends live in NYC. These places have significantly higher crime rates than ,say, Butte, Montana, which is the most 'safest' city in US, perhaps even in the western world. How many of us are ready to live there? People are not looking for the safest thing, crime and unstability are parts of all vibrant economies. If stability were our prime concern, then Rana rule was so stable, heck, there was no strike, I guess they killed less than ten people during 1942-2003,would you prefer that era to multiparty democracy of post 2046? I assume, of course, not. In this context, let's face it, democracy, as we practiced in the last twelve years, was far from flawless, but was the best system we ever had. And Finally: >" There is no point in glorifying him [king]. > But the major bone of content is we > don't have power to do ANYTHING against > him." So, Biswo ji, who you suppose should >give this power to us to act against him? Our will, our unified voice, and it is hightime that democrats in Nepal say to the king: "My way or Highway!" |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 06:04 PM
Sparsha, Please do not blame the doctor for your spoilt tooth! Blaming the 12 years of semi-democracy, and not the 12 generation of Shah rules, for all that has gone wrong is as stupid as anything can get. I agree that getting rid of the King will not by itself solve our problems. I also agree that it is time to get rid of these jail-qualified leaders and get some "young and wise" leaders, if I may borrow Paschim's phrase. But one thing really surprises me: when people blame the last 12 years and only individuals working during that period for what has gone wrong. Much discredited Girija Prasad Koirala DID try to retract power from the King. Read issue 157 of Nepal magazine; he might make some sense to you, too. In fact, reports say that the stance of the King was what Girija asked to be clarified when he met Gyanu recently. The political parties have tried and ARE trying to get all the power they deserve. It is the kaalo sambidhan (in Nirmal Lama's words) and the palace itself that have been creating an impediment to creating a just, equitable and democratic Nepal. Had the much liked King--Birendra--allowed GPK to deploy army earlier, or in other words, if the army was under the elected government, Maoist issue might have been solved long ago. Will write more later. Have to get something to eat first. |
| Gurl_Interrupted | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 07:04 PM
"Nepal needs leaders who can see beyond the party lines. National interest should be their top most priority." PpL as such have hardly made it upto the government as far as I am aware of! Not because, they lacked leadership qualities or the qualities to serve and understand their fellow mankind, but becoz, ppL thought and assumed, they werenot good enuf to lead them based upon their roots! Isn't it just sad? You get a vote not becoz u have the ability to vision and lead the country but becoz you appear to be a leader coz u have a bungalow, car, a good family name.....I'm not saying all leaders became leaders that way, some did. Least those that I know did. So, am not going to blame anyone coz all of us have our own parts in the way we are being led ! Correct me if I am wrong! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 08:11 PM
Biswo, Ok, let me tell you about the 1965 treaty. 1965 treaty was an ONE time affair, with a provision for renewal. 1965 TREATY had nothning to do with the 1988-1990 embargo. 1965 treaty was not renewed by either side. I already said it was a MILITARY treaty. Arms supplies causes are there BUT.....those clauses aren't binding. Nepal can import arms from any third country, if it gets a better deal or to get arms that are not made/manufactured in India. 5 barsa= 1965 +5 =1970 ma treaty ko validity sakiyo! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 08:21 PM
Now, my questions regarding the 1965 treaty were have you actually see it and read it? Also, treaties in itself don't mean much unless and until tehre's letter of exchange. The letter of exchnage is what gives the treaty the validity it requires to operate. In such letters ofe xchnage, usually few things that sometime slip n the treaty are addressed. I haven't read the letter of exchnage of the 1965 treaty, but I have read the treaty and talked to Sradar Yadunath Khanal, who signed the treaty. Tyasaile, my questions to you were NOT childish. I wanted to see how much YOU KNOW about what you were TALKING. Come on, do you think, I can come in here, make some stroing statements and just get away with it...? Or making strong statements withjout any credible, verifyable proof is what makes one democratic? Its fine not to know the clauses of the treaty, no body does. But, BUT, BUTTTT you should have a better-than-general knowledge of those treaties to discuss, to make statments and to convince others. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 08:28 PM
You wrote "We didn't have democracy, we don't have it now." I agree. We need to get rid of the King, or "relegate it to the status of a Norwagian King who would have to run in his stained coat to catch the public bus" (Biswo's phrase). Do you agree? Mainbatti, hahah ho ra? aani tyaspachi chahi k ni? yeso hunu parcha parcha tara kina? tyo bhaye pachi k garney? la ja ta Nepal ko bikas ko lagi, Nepal amrika hunai Parcha.. HUNAAI parcha..!!! |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 09:04 PM
Isolated Freak, Your comments were funny, if your intension was to make them so. Is this some kind of sital-niwas humor, though? My point is that the ultimate power has to lie on the elected parliament. Either the King should be politically inactive and just serve the symbol-of-unity-or-whatever purpose, or its institution should be abolished. Things that do not work should be gotten rid of. Othewise, it is just a waste of resources. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 09:06 PM
Biswoji, and MainBatti I am all ready to respond to the points you have put forward. However, right now, I am running tight on time and can barely spare any (time) but I will try to post my views tomorrow. But please make sure not to make me an envoy of G just because I don't think and speak the way you do. Thanks. |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 09:42 PM
Every time there’s a Nepali gathering, at one corner there’ll be a group of people talking politics. I guess the word itself is so fascinating to most people that some of them cannot stop talking about it, which I’m not saying is bad at all. In fact I like hearing those talks about Nepali politics, the country’s situation, all that talk that encompass a wide range of ideas, opinions, facts, history and what not. I write this because I see a virtual gathering here and it is so refreshing to read Sparsha ji’s comments whose thoughts resonate with mine and I feel like saying “EXACTLY!!!!”. :) And of course it is always a pleasure to read Biswo ji’s thought provoking pieces. Thank you guys for rejuvenating Sajhapur once again. It is indeed great news to hear about the progress of the sacred Bagmati and I hope the people in Kathmandu respect the river as well as the people behind this great deed. The other day a friend of mine Shweta was complaining like I’d never seen her complain before. She was outrageously lamenting on how her other friend was not treating her well, how the person’s behavior had been irritating her and all that crappy stuff that she went on and on about. After listening to Shweta for half an hour, I just asked her to stop because I couldn’t handle the thought of her being so full of negative energy. I had to tell her that instead of complaining so much, she needs to figure out what the real problem is, where it lies, and try to deal with it in a rational way, with a positive attitude and try to solve it together with her friend if possible. Instead of just blaming the other person she needs to look at her inner self too as to where her personal flaws are, what the reasons could be for her friend’s madness and treatment towards her. Not that I am a Dr. Phil wannabe but the above-mentioned personal scenario very much applies to all the Nepali “nautanki heroes” that Sparsha ji mentioned above. Instead of trying to see what the problem is, let alone solving it, the “nautanki heroes” (I love this phrase Sparsha ji) love pulling each other’s legs. Giving constructive criticism is one thing, but blaming, verbal stabbing, viciously attacking is completely different which as a matter of fact seem to be very normal in the nepali political arena. I don’t think these “nautanki heroes” will ever learn the true value of being “effective leaders”, leading with self respect, good morals, ethics and love for their country. Ani estaaaharu le k sikauchan present ra future generation lai? What is there to look upto ??? to hold our trust and hope for the best!! Aren’t leaders supposed to set examples so that we can follow their path??? Can anyone name one! I’m asking just ONE “good” leader whom we can trust? I bet there isn’t anyone! When the whole foundation is not strong then how can we expect a better nation with better people working towards achieving better results?? When the leaders themselves are CHOR, GHUSHYA, FATAHA, how in the hell can we expect a custom official at the airport to be strict in terms of allowing not more than the required weight of luggage? How can we expect a policeman to restrain from being bribed from that motorcycle wallah driving without a license? How can we expect Ram Ghartimagar to complete our documents on time without having to shower him with treats such as the special chiya with chana tarkari? How can we expect OURSELVES to behave rationally and ethically? I mean seriously, it’s so pathetic to even think about all these things that continuously put us in roller coaster rides. When will these “nautanki heroes” realize that “enough is enough”? The fate of our nation lies in our country’s leaders and their proper leadership but with the way these leaders are acting, one can clearly see that Nepal is approaching its limit and when realization dawns on these very “nautanki heroes” it will indeed be “too late”!! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 10:27 PM
IFji, I know it was a five-years treaty, but I am yet to know if it was 'one time' affair. Even if it was, don't you think even for five years, king Mahendra was a signatory to the treaty that made us inferior partner, and that had consequences for us for long time to come. Just because the treaty was for five years doesn't mean Mahendra didn't sign an unequal treaty.Indians kept on talking about that treaty until 1988, I know for sure. -- Dilashaji, Chor, Phataha, Ghushyaha netaa. Hmmm. I assume you are also living in USA, and just to inform you, Congressman Trafficant from Ohio was sent to jail and ousted from Congress of USA just last year. Senator Torricelli had almost faced the same fate. No one can guarantee 'sati sabitri', and 'gau praani' in parliaments of any nation.See France, Italy, Belgium of last five years, corrupt leaders are found, charged and sent to prison. So, these things are not easy to eradicate, and being an educated person living in USA you shouldn't demand an 'impossible' from our democracy. But, one thing is sure, people can throw the corrupt officers away in democracy if they want in the next election. We need to learn to live with those blemishes. Among Chor, Phataha MPs, there are good MPs too, and if the system is allowed to run on its course, ultimately, truth and people of virtues will be victorious. As for giving 'treats' to civil servants, it was like that in Panchayat, it is like that in China, Indonesia, India everywhere, and only social consciousness and ,perhaps, prosperity can eradicated, or significantly lessen, such things.Blaming democracy for such vices is ,at best, an irrational thing. Sparshaji, Take your time, please. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 11:29 PM
I know it was a five-years treaty, but I am yet to know if it was 'one time' affair. Even if it was, don't you think even for five years, king Mahendra was a signatory to the treaty that made us inferior partner, and that had consequences for us for long time to come. Just because the treaty was for five years doesn't mean Mahendra didn't sign an unequal treaty.Indians kept on talking about that treaty until 1988, I know for sure. -- 1965 Treaty isn't an unequal one. That was a ONE TIME affair that never got renewed because the clauses in there were hard to follow for the both countries. His Late Majesty Mahendra did not, I emphasize, DID NOT make Nepal an inferior partner nor signed an unequal treaty, and no that treaty had no consequences on us whatsoever. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 11:36 PM
>1965 Treaty isn't an unequal one. I don't see how the treaty that 'emphasized' India's role as our arm exporter wasn't unequal. Just because it was one-time affair doesn't mean it was not unequal. And does the fact that NC was waging 'armed struggle' those days from India have something to do with the treaty? I wonder. >His Late Majesty Mahendra did not, I >emphasize, DID NOT make Nepal an >inferior partner IFji, tapaaile BOLD letter maa lekhera , emphasize gardaima kasari maanne? We see the result. HMG Mahendra was diplomatically a relatively success story, I agree, but not in relation with India. 1965 treaty, sadly, was one example. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 11:45 PM
My point is that the ultimate power has to lie on the elected parliament. Either the King should be politically inactive and just serve the symbol-of-unity-or-whatever purpose, or its institution should be abolished. Things that do not work should be gotten rid of. Othewise, it is just a waste of resources. Straight from Democracy 101 eh? Yeah, what you say works in an ideal world.. but my pashupati ko sathi says we don't live in an ideal world. When you have 205 jokers and 250000 party workers running the show in a country that has not even 50% literacy.. I think, this whole democratic ideals, without any doubt, leads to bhad-bhailo! I firmly support the stance taken by the third world asian countries during the vienna convention. First priority has to be on development and growth and ONLY, other things come second. Look at Singapore, China and Malaysia. Also, I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with your remnarks on the institution of Monarchy. la hasam hajur hasam.. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 11:48 PM
read it as and growth and ONLY, other things come second read it as: and only after that, the nations should promote democracy and human rights. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-Mar-03 11:50 PM
biswo, aaba based on what i know (althogh i don't know anything), the 1965 treaty does not necessarily make India our arms exporter. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 01:58 AM
>aaba based on what i know (althogh i don't >know anything), the 1965 treaty does not >necessarily make India our arms exporter. Oxymoron statement? Based on what I know although I don't know anything??? >I firmly support the stance taken by the > third world asian countries during the vienna >convention. Vienna convention? Which Vienna convention? Will you please illuminate a little bit? ani euta kuro IFji, you are the first one to teach me what 'raat rahe agrakh palaauchha' means. I am just wondering will you ever change your this rightwing fanatic idea about democracy?I just think 'raat rahe..' thing now. Democratic Nepalko diplomat hune manchhe le kuro bhane Mohan Niraulako jasto garnu bhayena, hajur. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 09:50 AM
Biswoji wrote: "In the last twelve years, that you think we were watching nautanki, what was the news that came out of Nepal and ashamed us most? In my opinion, it was the news of royal massacre. A drunken prince killing everyone after consuming some 'kaalo laagu padaartha'. " I disagree Biswo ji. The royal massacre news did not ashamed me the most (in the last 12 years). I still don't know who did what in the royal massacre. However, let's agree with you and assume that a drunken prince under the influence of kalo lagu padartha killed most of his family members. Even so, this is not an excuse for the political nautankis to act poorly. What the alleged killer did is deplorable and sad but I don't think that was the most embarrassing event for me. The most embarrassing thing that happened in the past 12 years is the way the dream of the majority of Nepali people got shattered by the nautankis not by the alleged prince firing at his folks. So-called freedom fighter leaders or the prophets of so called democracy failed and failed again in these past 12 years. They gave a wrong definition of democracy to the general public. This is embarrassing. Alleged prince was attacking his people within his residence but these nautankis were and still are (and now whining cuz they are not being able to mess things as they used to) attacking the hope and dreams of the majority of the population struggling every single day to survive. What these nautankis 're doing is a bigger offense, to me. They have killed thousands and thousands of nepalis and have done "tusharapat" to the hopes of millions of nepalis. "That news was not due to our leaders, that was due to the presence of the institution of monarchy. " Come on Biswo ji. Don't blame the institution for what an alleged prince did. Now tomorrow if a son of the PM kills his folks, do you want to abolish PMship? Better yet, if some people get in the parliament and fire shots there, then would you blame the establishment (parliament) for that and want the establishment be abolished? Come on! "..some Shahs like Sharad Chandra and Dhirendra, were nabbed in LA Airport while coming to participate in Olympics in 1984…" I agree with you here. However, were you ashamed to see and hear the way "ratatata" handled the press briefing on royal massacre? Were/Are you ashamed of the protection these political leaders and their parties provide to their bhaktas? Were/are you ashamed to see the nataks these nautankis play everyday in the name of democracy, constitution and the well being of the nation? There was a time when I used to be an admirer of Modnath Prashrit. I think he had won Madan Puraskar for "Manav" (I think) and from that prized money he had tried to build a small house in Bhairawa but he couldn't. Prashrit himself says he was deeply saddened to see the bricks falling apart from his DPC when he visited his dream place (the proposed home) later. After that he was in the jail most of the time. He briefly became minister under "sarbahara ko sarkar" and now he has a grand house near swayambhu. Where did he get all the money? Was he also a member of "sarbahara" or "sarba ahara" party? I don’t want to take the name but I used to go to college with a dude whose father was in jail at that time and his dera had one sukul, one jhalla and a bhyar bhyare stove along with a patalo dhusno. When I visited his house in eastern Nepal, one of his neighbors requested me not to go his (my friend's) house as a pauna because they were having extremely difficult time (financially devasted). After the "democracy" his father became a prominent minister and soon he (my friend) was riding on a pajero. Are you ashamed of these nautankis who were walking around with a taleko suruwal until yesterday and today they have couple of modern houses and couple of cars? Are you Biswoji? Are you? "So, national shame was inflicted by palace to us from time to time. Rather, there were moments when residences of Male, Maldives were lined up with curiosity to see the freedom fighter PM of Nepal, Krishna Pd Bhattarai. " I don’t know if I should glorigy KP Bhattarai. But I give him the credit for his struggle. I am shocked to note your bias assessment when you forget everybody else and only focus on the narayanhiti for national shame. Yes, narayanhiti has ashamed us, so have the nautankis. Neither narayanhiti nor the nautankis should be the excuse for others to embarrass us. I was once in Butwal, many years ago. King Birendra was coming to Butwal campus. I was a new teenager then but I resented the king/queen and their bhai bhardars a lot. I had little respect for them so was not interested in seeing them. That day, I rather went with couple of other friends who were attending butwal campus to watch a movie in dwarika ko hall. But there was no movie playing that day. So, those friends took me to the campus. We stood in line. The people say "jogi came jogi came" I looked around did not see any jogi ..later I realized they were talking about sawari mantra Jog Mehar. …any way king birendra came followed by his wife and followers. I was standing just a foot away from the red carpet. He came right before me just a foot away. I saw people bowing some were bowing so low as if they want to kiss his feet. I neither bowed nor did namaste. I was never a fan of naranhiti dude and his family. I still am not. But I differentiate between the monarchy and the person sitting on the thrown. "Gyanendra Maharaj once said 'king's property is the property of the state'. Then, heck, did the nation of Nepal get the property of the king Birendra after the destruction of his immediate family? Were you lucky to know how much was his property? So much for the most 'thulo' and most 'dependable' netaa of our country. Imagine the outcry there would be if Gayatri Nepal were to shop saari of 'crores of rupees' in HKG, but were you outraged, my dear friend, when Kantipur published the account of a proud sari businessman of HKG saying he was selling expensive saris to our queen while our people were dying of hunger in Karnali." I share your point here Biswo ji. I have said time and time again "we should demand the accountability from the narayanhiti. They should pay taxes. We should know what they have and how much they have. No one should be beyond the law however every head of the state gets concession from the state as a respect for the position. We should not forget this as well. Head of the state are treated differently but the difference should not be drastic. If ABC says he/she wants to kill the US president that may be a felony but if ABC says I want to kill sparsha…that may mount to nothing. " when Kantipur published the account of a proud sari businessman of HKG saying he was selling expensive saris to our queen while our people were dying of hunger in Karnali." I share no less frustration and anger as many of fellow Nepalis do over the news as such. "And, please don't put words in my mouth, because I didn't say " The mere presence of king as a peacemaker irritates me", I said The mere presence of the king as powermaker irritates me. " I apologize for the wrong word (I did not go back to check your post but I trust you). But still I would say if the king is powermaker that is because of these nautanki heros. These nautanki made him powermaker. "You found the lack of national consensus in what issue facing nation? Rightnow, most of the parties in our country are converging towards a shared view vis-a-vis neighbors. It is not like before. I was reading the news about a dam being made near Kapilbastu which all parties condemned. We are maturing, and we are being better." My god! are we getting better huh? Really? Parties condemned the dam construction. The case is over huh? Why can't they call their millions of comrades they claim they represent and lead them to the Indian Embassy in Kathmandu repeatedly to show their what they mean by condemnation just as an expample? Just by saying "we condemn dam construction" does not do any thing. Is this how they serve the national interest? "So when you say "at least, I would think on the national interest they should. But do they? Hell No. They are all opportunists." I find cynicism. " Sure, there is cynicism and will remain as long as these nautanki claim to be my "leaders". They are not. "Which national interest are you talking about?" There is only national interest to begin with: well being of the nation and the people. I want to see their commitment. If you are talking about unstability/crime, then let me ask you one question: you are now living in Maryland. I live in Houston. Our friends live in NYC. These places have significantly higher crime rates than ,say, Butte, Montana, which is the most 'safest' city in US, perhaps even in the western world. How many of us are ready to live there? People are not looking for the safest thing, crime and unstability are parts of all vibrant economies. If stability were our prime concern, then Rana rule was so stable, heck, there was no strike, I guess they killed less than ten people during 1942-2003,would you prefer that era to multiparty democracy of post 2046? I assume, of course, not. I find the argument very weak and out of context. Are you trying to downplay "safety" of the population? Would you like to go and live in Zaire or Somalia ? Safety is the most important thing for human being. If your survival is at stake what else do you care for? Democracy? If you do, then I have limitless respect for the sahids. ("You" does not mean you personally, Bisowji). "In this context, let's face it, democracy, as we practiced in the last twelve years, was far from flawless, but was the best system we ever had. " May be the system or the concept was noble but in practice it failed miserably not because we didn't trust the system but because nautanki heros showed the shameless dance..urinated…puked…and tried to "chyat chut" the system right in front of us. And Finally: >" There is no point in glorifying him [king]. > But the major bone of content is we > don't have power to do ANYTHING against > him." So, Biswo ji, who you suppose should >give this power to us to act against him? Our will, our unified voice, and it is hightime that democrats in Nepal say to the king: "My way or Highway!" Only, if they could be united. If the king had seen the democrats could be united for the nation and the people, he wouldn't have done what he did is doing. -----In reply to Dilasha , Biswo wrote: Dilashaji, "Chor, Phataha, Ghushyaha netaa. Hmmm. I assume you are also living in USA, and just to inform you, Congressman Trafficant from Ohio was sent to jail and ousted from Congress of USA just last year. Senator Torricelli had almost faced the same fate. No one can guarantee 'sati sabitri', and 'gau praani' in parliaments of any nation.See France, Italy, Belgium of last five years, corrupt leaders are found, charged and sent to prison. So, these things are not easy to eradicate, and being an educated person living in USA you shouldn't demand an 'impossible' from our democracy. " One's mistake or intentional wrong doing shouldn't be an excuse to commit similar mistake or crime for another person. What is "impossible" again? "But, one thing is sure, people can throw the corrupt officers away in democracy if they want in the next election. " I doubt. In Nepali democracy a corrupt wins and wins again. I wish I could say the same thing about an honest person. Just look at the MPs in the dissolved house. "We need to learn to live with those blemishes. Among Chor, Phataha MPs, there are good MPs too, and if the system is allowed to run on its course, ultimately, truth and people of virtues will be victorious. " Yes, not all of them are bad. I agree. Good ones should get the chance. I am saying the same thing. I support good guys (they have to prove it, though) regardless of their political affiliation. ** MainBatti wrote "Please do not blame the doctor for your spoilt tooth! " Hell, I am going to blame the doctor if my spoilt tooth is because of my trust on him/her. But why I would blame if the doctor has nothing to do with my spoilt tooth? "Blaming the 12 years of semi-democracy, and not the 12 generation of Shah rules, for all that has gone wrong is as stupid as anything can get. " I don't agree with your argument. I am not arguing 12 generations of shah rulers have no role in the current situation of the nation. Now you have brought up a new term 'semi-democracy" what does this mean? "I agree that getting rid of the King will not by itself solve our problems. I also agree that it is time to get rid of these jail-qualified leaders and get some "young and wise" leaders, if I may borrow Paschim's phrase. " True. Paschim is the boss. I like him. J I am also a devoted fan of paschim. We need young – just – and wise leaders. "But one thing really surprises me: when people blame the last 12 years and only individuals working during that period for what has gone wrong. Much discredited Girija Prasad Koirala DID try to retract power from the King. Read issue 157 of Nepal magazine; he might make some sense to you, too. In fact, reports say that the stance of the King was what Girija asked to be clarified when he met Gyanu recently. " What the hell does it matter whether Girija asked the king about his commitment? Was girija expecting to hear gyanendra say "to hell with the democracy and the constitution?" "The political parties have tried and ARE trying to get all the power they deserve. It is the kaalo sambidhan (in Nirmal Lama's words) and the palace itself that have been creating an impediment to creating a just, equitable and democratic Nepal. " Nirmal Lama was himself in that draft commission why did not he tried to make red, white or whatever? May his soul rest in peace, but these nautankis are crying for the same "kaalo" constitution to be in force. Political parties are not trying to get all the powers they deserve. They want to rule, they want to be in power. This is where it ends. The power does come down to the poor as a whip but for the influential one the same whip becomes a kiss. What were they doing all 12 years when they had the power? Play one after another nautanki? How many times the house of representatives was recommended to be dissolved? Nautanki heros were saying "chalo democracy democracy khelte hai" and we suffered. Their drama sucked. "Had the much liked King--Birendra--allowed GPK to deploy army earlier, or in other words, if the army was under the elected government, Maoist issue might have been solved long ago. " Please quote where the constitution says the army is not under the elected government. Make it if its not. After the parliament is there to make laws. It's the parliament, which can even bring the proposal to remove the king, I think. Will write more later. Have to get something to eat first. Ma pani chya lina janu paryo. |
| yOunGBlOOdz | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 10:22 AM
there is a saying in nepal............ KUKUR KO PUCCHHAR 12 BARSA DHURO MA RAKHE PANI BANGA KO BANGAI.... tara HAMRO NEPALI KO POLITICS RA POLITICIAN lai DHURO MA RAKHYO BHANE DHURO NAI BANGIYELA>> TARA TINI KAHILE SOJHINE HOINA>>> the botttom line is.. all they want is post.. all they r up fo is corruption.. all they can do is.. betray nepal n nepalese people.. and all i can say is.. line em up.. n shoot them bastard.. bring sum new educated intellegent people to the government... n create a new law that says "U LL BE SENTECED TO DEATH IF UR CAUGHT OR SUSPECTED OF DOING NETHING (corruption, misuse of the power, filling ur bank account, not performing ur duty accurately)" THAT SHOULD BE ARTICLE I SECTION I CLAUSE I |
| sparsha | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 11:14 AM
Dilasha ji, "it is so refreshing to read Sparsha ji’s comments whose thoughts resonate with mine and I feel like saying “EXACTLY!!!!”. :) " :-) I also enjoyed your input. I am so happy to read the comments expressed here whether they resemble my thought or not. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 12:16 PM
Biswo, You are right. It sure reads like an oxymoron statement.. I meant to say.. although I know nothing *much*..thanks for pointing out the flaw. "Vienna convention? Which Vienna convention? Will you please illuminate a little bit?" JUNE 1993 , WORLD CONFERENCE ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIENNA in which the third world nations including China oppsed the US's view that Human RIghts and Democracy are MUST for the development and growth. See Biswo, I am not a right-wing fanatic. Democracy is a great system, the best system ever, but it didn't work in NEPAL. I say, first we should have at least 90% literacy rate, then economic development and stability before we jump into the american democracy bandwagon. aaba biswo lao peng, diplomacy bhaneko, putting the sdirtiest thing, the sweetest way possible..what you like may be viewed as "dirty" by the otehrs, but to sakne-jati extent, you put things nicely, nasake-pachi.. you get a little harsh.. and tyatti le ni bahyena bhane.. WAR.. hahah hoina ta? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 12:27 PM
http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1621699 check that out..a book review of Fraeed Zakaria's "The Future of Freedom", published in the Economist. I think the book raises some valid questions reagdring our perceptions of democracy and liberty.. haven't read the boook yet but the temptation to read it now is even irresistible.. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 12:36 PM
haven't read the boook yet but the temptation to read it now is even irresistible.. than to light this cigarette i am holding |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 07:05 PM
Biswo ji wrote: "Chor, Phataha, Ghushyaha netaa. Hmmm. I assume you are also living in USA, and just to inform you, Congressman Trafficant from Ohio was sent to jail and ousted from Congress of USA just last year. Senator Torricelli had almost faced the same fate. No one can guarantee 'sati sabitri', and 'gau praani' in parliaments of any nation. See France, Italy, Belgium of last five years, corrupt leaders are found, charged and sent to prison. Tehi ta Biswo ji, the only difference between the people you mentioned and our nautanki netas are that the former are tried and put to jail hence they pay for their misdeeds eventually while the latter gets away with even the deadliest crime. Why?? Because needless to say the US has proper/strong system of law and order and the officials apply those rules and regulations at every spectrum of their job. We can take the example of the British Princess Anne who was charged in court for her dog’s misdeeds. The Queen could have come in between and waived the charges or even prevent the whole court actions from happening but instead she chose to abide by the law!! Isn’t that amazing? Why can’t WE have similar rules or establish and use a strong system of law and order in our country for not only the aam nepali janta but also for people of higher ranks including the royal family! That’s what my question is. And of course I do understand the fact that no nation is perfect but from what I see and hear about our country, 99.9 percent of the leaders seem to be crooks! And Biswo ji you also said: “So, these things are not easy to eradicate, and being an educated person living in USA you shouldn't demand an 'impossible' from our democracy. " Of course I understand that things are not that easy to accomplish but Impossible Biswo ji? Impossible??? I don’t buy that ! Ho! Fully eradicate garna nasakiyela tara at least rules and regulations harulai lagoo garna ta sakincha ni. I do applaud the CIAA for their investigation tara I don’t know if it’s true about what I heard of some netas getting out of bail without further investigation. And btw. how big is our nation?? It’s not even half the size of CA if you slice it vertically. How come it’s been possible in THIS nation that encompasses fifty different states and how come it’s not possible in a small country like ours? I do agree that education has a lot to do with it but then I’m not trying to imply that there should be overnight changes and that too in every nook of the country at once. Things should start from bigger cities tara jaba bigger cities kai manche haru ma chetana chaina bhaney how can we expect the smaller areas to develop? And I didn’t understand what you meant by “blaming the democracy” I am just blaming these jokers for treating Democracy as vaudeville by performing shameless acts. Sparsha ji, thank you for the story on the nautanki netas. It’s just amazing how these very people chosen by the people can go to such great lengths of abusing their power. The other day a friend of mine who works for an NGO told me a story about how a political figure once disrupted her training class in a village. In the middle of her training session, this chamcha asked her to stop teaching those village women so that his neta could make some bhashan to get votes. It’s so pathetic, haina? Biswo: "Gyanendra Maharaj once said 'king's property is the property of the state'. Then, heck, did the nation of Nepal get the property of the king Birendra after the destruction of his immediate family? Were you lucky to know how much was his property? So much for the most 'thulo' and most 'dependable' netaa of our country” Sparsha: “I share your point here Biswo ji. I have said time and time again "we should demand the accountability from the narayanhiti. They should pay taxes. We should know what they have and how much they have. No one should be beyond the law however every head of the state gets concession from the state as a respect for the position. We should not forget this as well. Head of the state are treated differently but the difference should not be drastic.” I also agree with both of you here. It’s high time the palace became open towards the public. The jantas had enough of their nataks as well. Did you watch that program on Prince William of England they showed last year? He helped raise funds for a charitable orgn due to which the people from the orgn were able to go to Chile to build homes for the poor. What more the Prince himself went along with the group and helped build houses, played with little kids, prepared meals, and even cleaned his own bathroom! Now I don’t think he did that with the “look I’m a prince, but still I’m cleaning my toilet” attitude but it’s amazing how royal families of other countries are. Even the Sultan of Brunei who is so dedicated and close to his people that they simply love him. Whereas our royal family ko ta garnu k kura. Garera saddhya nai chaina. Advisor haru pani kasta kasta hunchan kunni! It would be nice if King G created a big museum in memory of his brother and his family and have public visit the museum and the money generated from the museum can be donated to Birendra’s favorite charities. This would be a great deed on his part. K garthey ra esto? Bhayeko Ghorka darbar which has such tremendous history attached to it, lai ta kehi garna sakya chaina, aru ta parai jaaos! La la Sparsha ji and Biswo ji, I won’t add anymore. Like I said before, it’s always a pleasure to read you two. I guess I’d rather do some ganthan about my favorite Gulzar and be dazzled by his mesmerizing nazm(s). :) |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 08:32 PM
>I disagree Biswo ji. The royal massacre news >did not ashamed me the most (in the last 12 years). Well, Sparshaji, then we differ big time. I don't know why you were more ashamed by the Ranabhat press conference. I bet most of the foreigners know us by massacre, thinking us as some medieval place, rather than the press conference. rat-a-tat-tat is a valid English word, for your information. > I still don't know who did what in the royal massacre. > However, let's agree with you and assume that a >drunken prince under the influence of kalo lagu >padartha killed most of his family members. Even >so, this is not an excuse for the political nautankis >to act poorly. Sparshaji, if you have read my postings over last several months, you know that I am critical of leaders. I don't defend those who acted poorly. But just because your hand is not working properly doesn't mean a doctor can cut it off. That's why I don't like the heavy handedness of king. I think he is acting wrong, and he should change his way of doing. Further, Why are you so angry at the leaders who did act poorly, but why do you depend on the king who never acted well? What is your source of confidence on the king, who you also agree that was greedy, and made plenty of mistakes in his first year in throne? Why am I wrong in criticizing the king? >However, were you ashamed to see and hear > the way "ratatata" handled the press briefing >on royal massacre? Frankly, Sparshaji, I was not. The shame's source was the prince, not the press conference. Why should I be shamed for that press briefing? May be some mistake happened in terms of demeanour, but the press conference as a whole was not 'shame' for me. The real shame was murderous rage by a crown prince. His investiture as a king despite the glaring evidence from witness that he was a murderer. The shame was also caused when the laughing commentators of foreign TV, newspapers said/wrote that this man would be king despite the fact that he killed his family if he managed to survive. That system was the source of shame for me.And the crown prince was crown prince, a separate important post in our country, not a merely son of king, unlike your comparison of a son of a leader. > Were/Are you ashamed of the protection these political >leaders and their parties provide to their bhaktas? Come on, why should I be ashamed? I? This is a too general statement. Everybody protects their bhaktas everywhere. If they are wrongly protecting, it needs to be rectified.If it is against the law, let the law handle it. You mentioned Mod Nath, Sparshaji, I have criticized him in sajha.com a lot of times. >Yes, narayanhiti has ashamed us, so have the nautankis. The difference between you and me , sparshaji, is that I don't mind if you criticize leaders, I do criticize them, but you mind when I criticize the king, you think it is inappropriate for me to caution the institution that has, as you just agreed, ashamed us. Why do you have this double standard? Why do you think that the institution that has ashamed us should run our nation, but not we people and our elected leaders? Dilashaji: -- >Tehi ta Biswo ji, the only difference between the people >you mentioned and our nautanki netas are that the former > are tried and put to jail hence they pay for their misdeeds >eventually while the latter gets away with even the >deadliest crime. US system was not made in ten years.Dilashaji, we were progressing towards a good system.And what was CIAA doing?? Wasn't it putting leaders in jail? BUT, what is the alternative rightnow? For example, Bharatmani Jangam, a chief of 'daudaha', has been criticized for issuing lunatic orders to civil servants. Have you seen any remedy despite popular outcry against his actions in press? The alternative is bad, and it is gonna get worse. >Of course I understand that things are not that > easy to accomplish but Impossible Biswo ji? Impossible??? > I don’t buy that ! Dilashaji, then please show me the place where the vices you mentioned are completely eradicated. How would you make sure that those vices are eradicated? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-Mar-03 09:34 PM
"handedness of king. I think he is acting wrong, and he should change his way of doing. Further, Why are you so angry at the leaders who did act poorly, but why do you depend on the king who never acted well? What is your source of confidence on the king, who you also agree that was greedy, and made plenty of mistakes in his first year in throne? Why am I wrong in criticizing the king? " "You agre that the leaders performed poorly.. now who else is left to depend on? Its the king." Just tell me what wrong things he has done in the last 2 years? Why do you have this double standard? Why do you think that the institution that has ashamed us should run our nation, but not we people and our elected leaders? hahahah.. why should George Bush be running the show and not a poor blackey from Harlem? US system was not made in ten years.Dilashaji, we were progressing towards a good system.And what was CIAA doing?? Wasn't it putting leaders in jail? CIAA has nor relased and the supreme court has given clean-chits to all those ghusayaha leaders. For example, Bharatmani Jangam, a chief of 'daudaha', has been criticized for issuing lunatic orders to civil servants. Have you seen any remedy despite popular outcry against his actions in press? The alternative is bad, and it is gonna get worse. bHarat Jungamn isn';t critized by the workers nor the remaing sane people of Nepal. He is being critiucized by the political leadrers. His orders aren't lunatci by the way.. Biswo, you are forgetting one major point here, all along this discussion: DEMOCRACY has to be open for discussions and questions and that's being democratic. Do you need democrarcy to develop? Does democracy work verywhere? Why did we had a miserable experience in the lats 12 years? Biswo, these days even the political scientists/writers from the US are questioning democracy. DEmocracy in itself does not GUARANTY peace, liberty and freedom of choice. Other factors come into play.. DEMOCRACY without everything working TOGETHER is no different than a dead body ofa beautiful actress. Looks good,. but you can't do anything and if you don't destroy/cremate it, it just becomes the major source of many illnesses... So, in the true democratic spirit, let's question democracy. Let's find out what are the factors that make the best system worst in Nepal. Let's get into the theoratical aspect: Cultural, Historical, Political, Regional, Economical and Religious and analyze the system rather than quoting from text books. DEmocracy is the best sytem, let me emphasize, the best SYSTEM, but is it flawless? Let;'s have a healthy debate on democracy. la namaste! |
| sparsha | Posted
on 14-Mar-03 08:23 AM
Biswoji, In certain matters we differ big time and I don't buy your theory of democracy the way you define. It seems to me that democracy is the basis for survival to you and to me survival is the basis to democracy. [Tell me if I am wrong]. But that's ok. I respect your views. "But just because your hand is not working properly doesn't mean a doctor can cut it off". If the hand is of no use, many times doctor amputate it even though it looks good from outside, Biswoji. A hand is not a hand if it does not function as a hand. It’s the function not the look that counts. You did not respond to some of my points. But that's ok, you are not required to. "For example, the King forms an all party government and utters that he now devolved his executive powers to the government thus formed. And what if the King dismisses the government thus formed and says that the executive powers now again in his own hands? This would mean that if it were of the liking of the political parties, even if the King acted unconstitutionally should mean constitutional. Here lies the paradox indeed." [The Telegraph (weekly), Wednesday, March 12, 2003] How do respond to this situation mentioned above? I have mentioned many times I am neither a fan of the king or the many existing political party leaders. I have criticized both quarters (King and the political parties). I am not forcing you to be with any quarter for your views- I read your views independently- but you are trying your best in pushing me towards Narayanhiti and want to portray me as Gyanendra Sharan. And I am not liking it. I guess, this is a good time to request you not to label me the way you want and please read my views as they stand without referring to wrong place. I don't like people labeling me the way it seems pleasurable/easy to them. If I were a G's fan, I would've said that loud and clear. I support any one who puts Nepal and Nepalis first, regardless of their political affiliation. I have said this time and time again. King Birendra was not intervening in the daily affair of the state for a decade but even then the political parties and their nautanki heros didn't prove their loyalty to the nation and the people. Instead, these nautankis continued to destroy peace and prosperity along with the hopes and dreams of the majority of the population. This is what I believe and I stand by it. With respect, Have a good day, Biswo ji. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-Mar-03 06:52 PM
>For example, the King forms an all party >government and utters that he now devolved > his executive powers to the government thus > formed. And what if the King dismisses the >government thus formed and says that the >executive powers now again in his own hands? >This would mean that if it were of the liking of >the political parties, even if the King acted >unconstitutionally should mean constitutional. > Here lies the paradox indeed." [The Telegraph > (weekly), Wednesday, March 12, 2003] If king again dismisses the executive government , perhaps with the consensus of all parties, thus formed, well my reaction would be the king has been mad. That the king wants to move alone. That the nation is in deed divided between royal and republicans. There is no paradox. There is only one thing: the desire of king to run the country alone in any pretext he can get. -- Sparshaji, I am not trying to push you into Narayanhiti camp, and if you think my position pushes you to Narayanhiti camp, then, well you never had the firm belief on being in 'non-narayanhiti' camp from the start. My point is this: we have right to complain about the six crore figure Chiranjivi Wagle got illegally, and in deed we almost put him in jail. Small time crooks like Jagrit Bhetwal were ousted by people of Chitwan in election, Modnath Prashrit never won election(ain't I right?). But what about the king who takes crores of rupees annually, only, it seems, to create instability in governance. What about the crown prince whose terror Chitwan basi hasn't yet forgotten, and KTM people still remember. Why are you so eager to believe what the palace claims despite such murky history? That is my point. |
| rajunpl | Posted
on 15-Mar-03 09:33 AM
My question is whether you like the king or not,(national interest,public sevices,advertise of king in the UP,catastrophe in the banke, digged in the ditch ) ops !,who is running the nation..? Am i in the sajha pur or the far western district of nepal...?, or the us or the europe..?You guys can give the news but i believe in the history. 1. speech of madav nepaln girija, PK lohani,prachanda. They all have one thing in common.They are heavily suffered from the disease called oppertunist.RAT-RACE for the chair.Public like you and me are nothing more than the one who are braced in the tradition.I am quite surprise by the big talk of the nepalese community,though its better if it takes the positive attitude. King in in the tour of india.I can only see the nepal news where i am and i don't believe it. |
| rajunpl | Posted
on 15-Mar-03 09:35 AM
Who know the perfect nepalese tradition...?? |