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| Username | Post |
| Biswo | Posted
on 21-Mar-03 10:04 PM
One day I was looking for the situation of land distribution in Nepal. Interestingly, I found two articles in People's Review by the same writer, S. Singh, and the writer gave two different data. In one, he said lower 50% farmers account for 9%of total land and top 9% account for 17% of total land. In another one, written a few months later, he wrote top 10% hold 65% of total land, and lower 65% hold 10% of total lands. Welcome to Nepal, where, like Ashu once wrote, data are produced in newspapers out of thin air. I asked a journalist friend of mine why it happens. One of the reasons he gave was the most interesting: it is not only the journalist's fault, he said, even the authorities sit atop the dubious and inconsistent data, and give it to the journalists, which later gets published! Two days ago, Kantipur's main news, by Vijaya Babu Khatri about labor situation in Khadi in recent time, mentioned '3,00,000 people enter labor force each year in Nepal'. It was interesting, because I had read somewhere just a few weeks ago[probably in a report by ADB or World Bank) that the figure's 2,00,000. In his book Nepal's Failed Development(?), Devendra Raj Pande mentioned mother of all those indiscrepancies: Nepal's total area is different in different official reports. Time for authoritative figure , such as Madan Prize laureate Buddhi Shrestha, to stand up and clear the confusion, I guess. I was today in a multicultural program in Houston where Nepalese Association of Houston also participated. Nice dance and food and other things included. As I browsed the introduction of the programs, presumably published by organizers[Not Nepalese, I think], the leaflet introduced Nepal as a country "unique because it has three-cornered flag, with the sun representing the king and moon representing the hereditary prime ministers(Rana)". Well, that surprised me big time. Does our moon represent Rana? Heck, no. Ranas are not Chandra Banshi, even if they may claim so. They are just some Kunwar guys from town, who changed their sirname to Rana because Janga Bahadur wanted to have marital relationship with Shahs, according to Babu Ram Acharya. I am also sick of us Nepalese representing our country as 'exotic location with Yogis' and all those silly stuffs. I don't want to 'emphatically' identify ourselves with the past when Hippies congressed in KTM. I am also sick when foreigners talk about rebels and drunken royals whenever I introduce myself to them. I hope that we can rise above Himalaya, triangular flag, Yogi, Tantrik sex kind of stereotypes, and introduce Nepal as a modernizing developing country. |
| Arnico | Posted
on 21-Mar-03 11:25 PM
Biswo, you remind me of the following: In their book Uncertainties on a Himalayan Scale published in 1986, anthropologists M. Thompson, M. Wharburton, and T. Hatley describe attempts at calculating fuelwood consumption in the Himalaya to come up with a systems perspective of the region. Examining past research, they discovered a great range in data that could not possibly be extrapolated over the region. Estimates in per capita fuel wood consumption varied by a factor of 67, and estimates in sustainable yield from forest production varied by a factor of 150. (Thompson, et al., p. 4) They summarized their thoughts as follows, "expert estimates of [these] two key variables . . . vary by such enormous factors that it is but a slight exaggeration to say that, if the most pessimistic estimates are correct, the Himalaya will become as bald as a coot overnight and that, if the most optimistic estimates are correct, they will shortly sink beneath the greatest accumulation of biomass the world has ever seen." (p. 12). Meanwhile, if any one has the book Himalayan Dilemma by Ives and Messerli around (I don't at the moment), please do find their passage describing the origins of Nepals' GDP per capita... how some random person decided that it was to be roughly like Pakistan's, and then increased over time at a suitable rate... without any ground-checking... |
| surya | Posted
on 22-Mar-03 05:44 AM
Absolutely Biswo!!I think the Himlalayas, our cultural past, especially the tantric sex:), all that is fine ennough, but we are much more than. All that sort of stuff might give us some mileage by making us seem like exotically non-threatening, wise eastern types, but also confirm us as people essentially living in the past with no relevance and nothing to contribute to the present and future. When I see fellowr Nepalis playing the exotic game, I wonder at times what the motivation is. Not to say I have not done it myself ever in the past. I think one reason is that it gives us a chance to reinvent ourselves as stuff of legends. Otherwise it is mostly a symptom of our lack of self-worth and beleif in ourselves. About discrepancies in data, I personally think some accountability has to lei on people who report those data. It's all too easy to blame it on the "scientist" or beuracrat. Especailly in a case such as the one you mentioned when the same writer reports two very different data about the same thing. How can a writer oversee such a think? Is it that they just don't care, think no one will notice or what? As for scientists and intellectuals, I think there is no real system of honest peer review for one, secondly, people are discouraged from being critical at almost all costs. |
| bhedo | Posted
on 22-Mar-03 07:26 AM
Oh puhlease, look at Japan everyone, they might be a modern country in every sense, but when it comes to cultural practices, they are traditional in every sense. In fact, many still go for arranged marriages over there. So, IMHO, we can all be modern without losing our cultural heritage. There is nothing wrong in enlightening a foreigner about your heritage. Greeks like to talk about their historical past too, is it because of lack of self worth, or is it because they're proud of what their ancestors accomplished? Of course we have to delineate our country as exotic, otherwise it would be no tourist attraction. Nepal is not only for mountaineers, y'know. And what is this about Ranas being originally Kunwar? Too much of Bista, I believe. |
| noname | Posted
on 23-Mar-03 05:10 PM
Biswoji, I quite agree with your views! Regarding data (though it may sound out of context here!): Data manipulation is one area where our democratic leaders have gained experience in more than any other field after 1990. The economic data were more reliable during Panchayat period. Look at the economic survey of past 12 years. At the time UML was in government, they showed all the indicators going down all the time but in 9 months of their ruling. And so did the Congress! Dr. Mahat once boasted about increased per capita income of Nepali to around 320 US $ (?). |
| Paschim | Posted
on 23-Mar-03 06:38 PM
As someone who makes a religion out of GDP per capita figures (well, not really) I found that attributed account by Ives and Messerli quite interesting. As far as I know -- the Central Bureau of Statistics does have an *imperfect* system in place where the three major components of output (agriculture, industries, and services) are reported from "legitimate" sources periodically. The toughest component is agriculture, which, I'm told, relies on Jilla Krishi Karyalayas guessing, often on the basis of the monsoon rainfalls the projected changes in their jilla in the year in question! Whatever, as Maynard Keynes said, it is better to be vaguely right than be precisely wrong. On the actual figures, the last monetized anka I saw on Nepali GDP was around 5.5 billion. Divide this by the population of 23.6 million, and voila, you get a GDP per capita of around 230 dollars a year. But in terms of purchasing power parity, this would exceed 1200 dollars. Either way, if Mr. Mahat indeed reported that figure of 320 (and not 230), I'd be interested in knowing his source and methodologty. I mean officials can massage "reported" data a bit (revising growth figures mid-year by a decimal point or two, etc.) but extrapolating it by some 50% takes some wild imagination. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 23-Mar-03 10:31 PM
Arnico, That was an interesting example of data manufacturing. Talking about Himalaya, I think one of the interesting and consistent data probably comes from department of meterology which has about 50 weather stations around the country, providing temperature information since last 30 years.I read somewhere the average annual temperature has gone up by 1 degree centigrade. Any idea about that? -- bhedo, I was not totally against that kind of representation. What I was protesting is 'overfeeding'. I mean come on, we are portraying ourselves as some silly, intriguing, hashish-puffing, sexually promiscous Kamasutra-following populace.We are not that. But to some extent, it is right that we are left with no choice. Development processes are static so we can't really claim to be a modernizing country , and we can't claim ourselves as a modern vibrant democracy because democracy too seems to be stalled. Still, to give an analogy, I always think that if we have to invite visitors to Pashupati in Shivaratri, and we invite them to come to Pashupati to see nude-acts of Nagaa jogis, then the whole traditional meaning of Shivaratri kind of gets obscured. -- Paschim, I had a good fortune to meet with Pradhyumna a couple of days ago. It was nice to meet him:-) In a somewhat unrelated issue, I was always confused by the appointment of Dr Prakash Mahat in planning commission. Is our nation's planning commission run by fresh PhDs with almost no experience(correct me if I am wrong?)since long, or was that an isolated incident? For a good social planning skill, experience and education both are supposed to be necessary. I also thought Sweden, Finland etc. to be 'welfare capitalist' rather than 'socialist' regimes. Still, some old folks in NC keep on saying their model countries are the Scandanavians, and that those countries are 'socialists'. |
| Paschim | Posted
on 24-Mar-03 06:26 AM
Biswo, the Scandinavians are known for their high tax rates which they use to fund quality public services like education, health, transport -- ensuring equity in access, and a very high quality of life; but their economy obviously is capitalistic, with most wealth-creating means of production non-state-owned. (Even the Soviets called themselves socialists) but in the European context, the term has to be understood in the ambit of ownership of assets. Recall that Blair killed the old socialist Labor party in 95 by just getting rid of the so-called Clause 4 that talked of nationalization. Most NC leaders grew up reading CK Prasai on stuff like this. That was like 30 years ago, and I do not think many have finished a single book since :) Mahat being a close lieutenant, was inducted when Deuba was NPC Chairman. He is a trained economist, but his real experience/skills obviously lie elsewhere -- in the conduct of party-politics. [Mahat accompanied Deuba right into the Oval Office last Sept, and close to what you are displeased with above, even Bush apparently started by saying something like: Welcome to the White House, Mr. Prime Minister. Are the Hippies still around in Nepal?!] Pradhumna is a close friend/dai, who is the only non-Bahun I call baaje! Do get to know him. I refused to visit Houston at first, thinking it would be awful. I went only after P subsidized my air ticket! Met very warm, sincere Nepalis there. Enjoyed touring Rice, and Austin. I was told, Texas bhanya America ko Chitwan ho, bujhis? :) |
| Arnico | Posted
on 24-Mar-03 07:18 AM
Paschim... I'll try to get the exact quote from Messerli and Ives... then we can see what the basis of their statement was. Biswo... there's a recent paper in an international peer-reviewed journal by Dr. Arun Shrestha of the Department of Hydrology and Meteorology describing the temperature trends around Nepal. It's not quite as a simple as an even 1 degree rise throughout the country... I'll summarize after I reread the paper... don't trust my memory of it completely... |
| ashu | Posted
on 24-Mar-03 08:24 AM
Biswo wrote: >>>In a somewhat unrelated issue, I was always confused by the appointment of Dr Prakash Mahat in planning commission. Is our nation's planning commission run by fresh PhDs with almost no experience(correct me if I am wrong?)since long, or was that an isolated incident? For a good social planning skill, experience and education both are supposed to be necessary. >>> Biswo, It's always nice to get an economist with some experience, of course. But I think that even freshly-minted PhDs (or even academic economists taken out of universities) making national plans are quite all right, provided they have the ability/skill and even humility to consult and learn from a wide variety of people when framing and recommending sound policies. Doing 'policy economics' in these days of media sophistication is a minor 'performance art' in and of itself, and the better versed our planners are in this 'performance' aspect of policy-making, the better they can credibly articulate reasons for doing this and that to the public. [The Bush Administration's recently appointed Chief Economist -- Greg Mankiw, for instance -- is an academic economist, with not much experience beyond research and teaching, though Mankiw, being Mankiw, seems well aware that advising the President is some kind of, well, a performance art in and of itself, and it'll be interesting to watch how he performs.] The trouble with our Nepali economists is that: a) they take themselves to be far more interesting than they really are; b) they would rather die and than show their ignorance by saying, "I don't know -- or let's find out from others who know more about this"; c) they are generally hopeless when it comes to communicating economic issues to the public at large in simple, clear Nepali bhasa and straightforward logic; d) some of them have this overweening sense of self-importance in that they see themselves as some great statesmen (like Nepali Keynes or something) who, in the absence of challenges by peers, start saying "anta-santa kura" that belies even basic economic reasoning . . . and get away with that. e) they let stupid, partisan politics get the better of themselves. A prime example? Dr. Kishore Kumar Guru Gharana. If any of you have followed his career in Nepal, you know what I am talking about. All right; long day tomorrow. Gotta go to sleep. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| noname | Posted
on 24-Mar-03 03:33 PM
Very informative insights for average Joe like me. Now since a 'broader' Nepal has been included in discussion, I would like to add something more. Nepal's planning is something like this as demonstrated by a KUHIRE in a star-hotel workshop: 1. The orator asks someone from the audience to come forward and draw head of a person in a blank page. 2. He folds the page hiding the already drawn part and asks another person to draw another part. 3. The process goes on and finally he shows us the complete picture drawn. Although all the parts are there, the complete figure does not resemble anywhere like a human being. His point was Nepal's plans are made just like that! BTW, some of the SAJHITIES might be interested in reading 'Sustainable Development Agenda for NEAPL' (As already discussed, some of our Sajhites have input in this document!), which I came across by complete fluke: http://www.scdp.org.np/pub/sdan.pdf . |
| SITARA | Posted
on 25-Mar-03 04:07 AM
"I am also sick of us Nepalese representing our country as 'exotic location with Yogis' and all those silly stuffs. I don't want to 'emphatically' identify ourselves with the past when Hippies congressed in KTM. I am also sick when foreigners talk about rebels and drunken royals whenever I introduce myself to them. I hope that we can rise above Himalaya, triangular flag, Yogi, Tantrik sex kind of stereotypes, and introduce Nepal as a modernizing developing country." ...Biswo Some time ago I was reading a book by Martin J. Gannon called "Understanding Global Cultures" where such a stereotyping is referred to as "Cultural metaphors". The argument is, although stereotyping is not looked upon as favourable, cultural metaphors help to classify the differences in countries, communities and/or any group of people. Although stereotyping is a simplistic approach to understanding a foreign phenomena, such metaphors help the un-informed be aware of the real differences between his culture and the other. Apparently, the metaphors "count" when there is scardity of resources, opportunities and feelings of inequity ( real or otherwise). So the thought is although statistics do matter but are not verifiable, cultural metaphors take over as a fuzzy bridge to understand and interact with political, social and edonomic forces of any given group of people. Interestingly, the author has visited and resesearched 24 countries but does not hesitate to use metaphoric titles to classify and explain those countries: The Authority Ranking Culture: The Thai Kingdom; The Japanese Garden; India: The Dance of Shiva; Kimchi an Korea....etc. Market Pricing Cultures: American Football; The traditional British House So, the idea of an exotic Nepal is easier to sell and to explain/classify than the idea of a poverty-ridden, developing country. I did find it very interesting to read such a perspective from a social scientist. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 25-Mar-03 04:58 AM
scardity=scarcity* |