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| gokul | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 05:05 PM
Maoists & Markov Yes, You saw it right. It is Markov and not Marcos. Markov was a Russian mathematician who is credited with the discovery of a random process called Markov process. A stochastic (random) process is a Markov process if its future value is dependent only on its current value and not the past value. Consider this example: A girl falls in love with a boy and says," I don't care what you did in the past, but you love me in the present. So, I am convinced that our future life will be happy. I want to marry you." In the eye of a mathematician, it is a Markov love. These days I see Dr. Baburam's name being mentioned in every newspaper as if he has come to this earth direct from the sky and not straight from the jungle. Although I pray for the success of the Shanti Varta, I can only wonder about those yesterdays. I have never understood politics let alone found it interesting. It is inconsistent and biased. It changes its color like the Chamelion of that great Russian story writer. We, Nepali are very interesting. We forget so quickly so easily. Our society is a memoryless society - living without any feedback, without any analysis. Perhaps we are purely Markovian, purely Buddhistic. Living moment by moment. In the near future, I see Maoists winning a landslide victory because we feel what they did in the past is irrelevant, we only care what they say in the present. "Pity the nation that welcomes its new ruler with trumpetings and farewells him with hootings, only to welcome another with trumpetings once again" |
| ashu | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 05:13 PM
Gokul, Those are my sentiments too. I too cannot understand what makes us in Nepal treat Babu Ram and his comrades as though they were homecoming heroes. To some extent, this idea of Markovian love explains our Pavlovian reaction. :-) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| tick | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 05:37 PM
I feel the same way and wonder about yesterday and worries me about tomorrow. What I see today worries me, a lot. I hope we come together as a nation, Punish those that are criminals, Reward those that standup for injustice and inequality, I hope we rise above and beyone the selfish "I". |
| Paschim | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 06:42 PM
Gokul-ji, valid thoughts honestly expressed. Once upon a time in a much primitive and smaller Nepal, there happened an armed revolution against an 'old' regime of feudal aristocrats, whose idea of stability was to export hill men to suppress mutinies and fight the White Man's war in alien territories. Young Nepalis, schooled in India, waged that revolution 52 years ago. BP Koirala and Subarna Shumsher led the Eastern Front, assisted by Girija, Biswo Bandhu Thapa et al; Dr. KI Singh et al. joined the Western Front led by Mahendra Bikram and Surya Prasad Upadhya. There were smaller fronts of 'Liberation Armies' elsewhere -- Thirbam Malla in Birgunj; Krishna Prasad Bhattarai in Saptari and Udaypur, etc. Some of these men survive to this day having gone through an awesome cycle of experiences -- from gun wielding kraantikaaris to imprisonment and exile to venal and incompetent bearers of public office, who have alternately been revered, disgraced, ignored. Ganeshman Singh, too, had gone on to swear in as cabinet minister straight from a prison cell where he was on death row. All 'revolutions' play cruel jokes on history. I would thus urge Maoists, and folks who are felicitating them today, to not get too excited. As Rudyard Kipling wrote in his poem, The Palace -- "After me cometh a Builder. Tell him, I too have known." The new deal of 52 years ago stipulated that the 'old' regime had collapsed, and the 'new' regime would be steered to a democratic course. The king then declared the following on Falgun 7, 2007: **We desire and so decide that henceforth, this nation's governance shall be in accordance with a republican [sic] constitution as formulated by a constituent assembly elected by the people themselves** I quote further: **Until this constitution is devised, we desire and so decide to appoint a cabinet comprising of people's representatives and those in whom the people have confidence** Then things happened. Or did not happen for a few decades. After an unprecedented 8 years of bloody chaos, and 8000 Nepali lives lost, Maoists repeat today the same demands that were actually offered on a silver platter by King Tribhuwan on Falgun 7, 2007. Of course they never materialized. Maoists should take note of these historical tid bits, and avoid the mistakes of the past. They say they are different, better, purer. And they say so because they want elections before writing a constitution. In the past 50 years, it has always been the other way round. But before all this, for the sake of future peace and justice, we have to go through a healing process. Call it 'trials' or attempts to seek 'truth and reconciliation' but we have to find a Nepali model that takes us through this process. Although the circumstances are different, just 2 weeks ago, even in Cambodia after 25 years, the country has agreed to set up a tribunal to try some of the Khmer Rouge leaders who, too, justified their atrocities in the name of kraanti. When Baburam was asked about Krishna Mohan, he retorted, how about Suresh Wagle? When asked about Nudup, he apparently said, what about the children of Rolpa? As if all this trade in blood was for a barter that was mutually beneficial. "Hernus, yuddha ma yestai hunchha" is one hell of an odious excuse. The spotlight is also on the boy who became King under dubious circumstances 52 years ago, and is King again. How much does he care about a throne that was not originally intended for him? Will he fulfill the 50-year old promise of his grandfather? Or have the deities in South India blessed him with a new business plan that will re-capitalize a "bankrupt democracy"? Curtains have fallen for Intermission. But the show will go on. As Mao used to say, "skies will rain and widows will remarry. Some of these things are unstoppable." |
| Arnico | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 09:01 PM
interesting thoughts, sathi haru... |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 09:18 PM
Gokul, In politics, there is no right and no wrong as long as you have POWER. Yesterday's "terrorists" are now, well, major political powers and we can't deny this fact. And as long as you are considered a political power, you are well above everything, even the constitution. Is there anything wrong with this? "War is the continuation of politics." In this sense war is politics and war itself is a political action; since ancient times there has never been a war that did not have a political character...." Chairman Mao. As far as my little thinking goes, NO. There's nothing wrong with this. All other major political parties of Nepal aren't "clean" either. The Nepali Congress Party is a Party of Crooks, Plane Hijackers (terrorists) and the UML is also a party of murderers (terrorists). Nepal seems to like only those powers who have a "myseteriously" dangerous past.As far as I am concerned, I see the Maoist influence on every Nepali politcial parties because they all seem to have, in one way or the other used violence to make themselves heard. Mao said, "power comes from the barrel of a gun", if nothing else, our leaders seem to know this much and have used this as their maha-mantra. Terrorism and acts of violence is at the core of every party. I think, we--the citizens of Nepal--are neither forgiving nor forgetting, we are just a fearful bunch. We don't question, we don't criticize and we just let things go as they go. We simply have "I don't care" attitude. We are so used to being F***D by leaders that if someone good comes along and does/say good things, we find it abnormal. This is the case. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 01-Apr-03 09:35 PM
We simply have "I don't care" attitude. We are so used to being F***D by leaders that if someone good comes along and does/say good things, we find it abnormal. This is the case. ** Now that the King has decidedc to hold talks with the Maoists, all otehr leaders are fearful. The media is being used to ignite the flame of hatred and violence. There have been repeated calls of REVOLUTIONS by the leaders of other politcial parties. Everybody in Nepal wants a revolution. THe congressis want a revolution, the communistsw ant a revolution, the maoists want a revolution but no one bothers to ask what we want. Do we want another peaceful or violent revolution? Do we really give a flying fu** about the constituent asembly and whether or not there is democracy atrocity anarchy and or whatever the fuc* is in the system? No. All we want is Peace and Stability and development. We don't care whatever goes behind the scene, we are not interested nor trained to care about those. Let "them" have their share of cake.. OK, there's no point in disussing Nepali politics with the educated bunch. I would rather talk with a bhariya from sindhupalchowk or tarkari bechne dai from Janakpur to know the real nepal. We all talk about the theories, but we don't know how where it applies in the Nepali context. We want to establish an "ideal" society without even leaving our cosy rooms. What the fu** and we all let all those crooks F*** us, that too happily! So, I would rather think about my own future and finances than of the majority of the Nepali. La ma gaye paisa kamauna.. namaste. |
| gokul | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 05:24 AM
IF you are right, I am just wondering about the people (including myself) of Nepal, not the leaders. Very soon some newspaper will publish (1) the story of the barber who will be the first to shave Baburam's beard since he came out of underground. Bhattarai(PhD)'s beard will be as important as Bhattarai(IA)'s Paan in Nepali politics. (2) His schoolmates will recall how studious he was, how different he was. Oneday he saw a poor man shivering in cold, he took off his coat and gave it to the man. How kind he was from the very beginning! (3) he will publish his memoirs of the underground life; how he used to fold saal ko paat in a cuplike fashion to drink water from the Seti river. In fact he will provide a lot of materials for the Nepali society that will gradually change the whole perspective; how it all began, how it all reamined. Fact becomes fiction. Fiction becomes fact. We will see everything in place and in order again. We are the pattern seekers, we are the dreamers of dream. I have no complaints about our leaders. They are doing superb. They are the music-makers. It is us who are not doing well. We are just the dreamers of dream. Sometimes we even dream about dreams. We find dreams more interesting and we just want to prolong our sleep. I do not know what is right and what is wrong. Perhaps only Phaedrus knows. So I will not broach this topic. |
| gokul | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 05:25 AM
IF you are right, I am just wondering about the people (including myself) of Nepal, not the leaders. Very soon some newspaper will publish (1) the story of the barber who will be the first to shave Baburam's beard since he came out of underground. Bhattarai(PhD)'s beard will be as important as Bhattarai(IA)'s Paan in Nepali politics. (2) His schoolmates will recall how studious he was, how different he was. Oneday he saw a poor man shivering in cold, he took off his coat and gave it to the man. How kind he was from the very beginning! (3) he will publish his memoirs of the underground life; how he used to fold saal ko paat in a cuplike fashion to drink water from the Seti river. In fact he will provide a lot of materials for the Nepali society that will gradually change the whole perspective; how it all began, how it all reamined. Fact becomes fiction. Fiction becomes fact. We will see everything in place and in order again. We are the pattern seekers, we are the dreamers of dream. I have no complaints about our leaders. They are doing superb. They are the music-makers. It is us who are not doing well. We are just the dreamers of dream. Sometimes we even dream about dreams. We find dreams more interesting and we just want to prolong our sleep. I do not know what is right and what is wrong. Perhaps only Phaedrus knows. So I will not broach this topic. |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 05:38 AM
:) Gokul ji the last one made me laugh. Anyway, interesting comments. Paschim, I think you should publish that comment of yours in Nepali Times. It's a great piece, seriously! |
| Poonte | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 07:23 AM
If the word "reconciliation" didn't exist in the dictionary, we might drop "peace" out of it as well--we need not necessarily forget what happened, but if we are courageous enough to rise above the emotionalities provoked by the past today, that will go a long way towards ensuring peace tomorrow. |
| NK | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 07:24 AM
Gokul, If I may say so it is called desparation mixed with a glob of amnesia. Forget about Markovian Sarkovian theory of ranmdomness. |
| Brook | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 07:50 AM
If Baburam emerges a Prime Minister when the dust settles, should we consider the appintment, and the process itself a martingale Gokul? :) |
| FaithHealer | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 07:54 AM
Paschim says: "As Rudyard Kipling wrote in his poem, The Palace -- "After me cometh a Builder. Tell him, I too have known." Didn't a certain American Defence Secretary like that poem too ? :) |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 02:32 PM
Gokulji, Markov property is nothing new in Nepali politics. I am not surprised now that we are seeing it again. Remember that there is probably not a single politician, and certainly not a royal, who was a victim of the bloodbath. It is easy for our powermakers to bury the hatchets, and patch up their differences with the Maoists in a 'cordial' environment. Peace is desirable, and so we welcome it. There were about 8,000 deaths in the 'revolution', and that figure is shockingly high, and we deeply resent that. However, we shouldn't forget the broken promise made by Shah rulers, especially by Mahendra in 2017 while dismissing democratically elected government [and also by his son] . These people are the one who mismanaged nation's property, presided over almost every organization in the nation and sucked the resources of the nation, while nation grew poorer during Panchayat rule. Perhaps more than 8,000 people died each year just due to drinking contaminated water. In Nepal, in Karnali, people died like animals, while Shah rulers [and their myrmidions] wasted nation's resources in luxury. We let them go unaccounted, and Maoists leaders will also be enjoying impunity. I like to go around Mississippi, and went there a lot of times in the past too. While watching the latent social tension in that state, I often remembered a statement from Nobel laureate from Mississipi, William Falkner. "The past is not dead, it is not even past." I hope there will be enough people to remind the murderers[both from palace and jungle] in Nepal that the past is not easily going to be forgotten.There will be consequences. |
| tick | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 05:09 PM
IF ji, I agree with you. Bishwo ji, I am impressed on your knowledge about Nepali Congress history and your respect towards their leaders ieBP/Girija. That makes you a kangressi. Kangressi are not any different than blood sucking maobadis. We have seen it all. This is the time to look at the ills of the congress and others and not let that happen again. |
| tick | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 05:11 PM
Please pardon my short sentence.. |
| ashu | Posted
on 02-Apr-03 07:49 PM
Gokul wrote: "2) [Baburam's] schoolmates will recall how studious he was, how different he was. Oneday he saw a poor man shivering in cold, he took off his coat and gave it to the man. How kind he was from the very beginning!" Gokul, This kind of bhajan is already in the air now. Two days ago, there was an article in Kantipur that praised Baburam's long-standing devotion to household duties. Meantime, Baburam's "SLC Board First" status has been highlighted on a lot more occasions in the past few days . . . and that, in this nation of ours. which, alas, boasts of having produced more SLC-failed citizens than SLC-passed citizens. Kirti Nidhi Bista, the former prime minister, publicly praised Baburam and Company for having done "the right thing" (his words) by fighting againt corruption and the like. The more things change, the more they remain the same. Paschim, enjoyed reading your drawing historical parallels on this matter. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 12:42 AM
History as written in history books is not always to be trusted. It most of time favors the winner. Provided this talk leads to a peaceful solution, I would not be surprised if our children will have chapters in their course books that portray Gyanendra and Baburam as the "heroes and builders of Nepal". Are we ready to accept that? Well, given what is seen on papers thesedays, most Nepalese--or atleast those in Kathmandu--are willing to do so! I beg to differ. If I was one of the journalists being awarded a prize at the Reporter Club's program, I would have rejected the prize if it was being handed to me by BRB. He was board first in SLC, so what? He is a PhD, so what? Journalists (may be this over-generalization) have once again mislead us (they mislead us when they blindly supported Gyanendra's Oct move). ------------ On another note, my speculation is that Gyanendra will give his consent on the formation of Constituent Assembly because he wants to prove that monarchy is the need of the time. And for this, he has begun his campaign (otherwise, why is there a need to visit far-west at THIS point?). If Maoist move along with the political parties, they wont be able to bargain for a communist republic (at least I think so). This means that at the end, we might not have to chose between extremes but between *constitutional monarchy* (may be as powerful as it is now) and a *bourgeoise (sp?) republic*. It will be interesting to see the tug-of-war between the King and the Maoists in near future--one advocating Monarchy using more cultural isseus (like Monarchy is the symbol of unity, it will prevent Sikkimization, etc) and the other using purely political and economic issues (equality, decentralization, blah blah). "Once again quite successful in diverting the topic" MainBatti (still procastinating at 3:38am). |
| rajunpl | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 06:06 AM
Great idea there IF jyu, As paschim revised the democracy and restored democracy there is a bitter understanding as well.Asa matter of fact.The political tendency of nepal can also be compared to the shania twain song "I am gonna get you as amatter of fact" "Iam gonna get you don't you worry about that" This can be comprehend the EASTABLISHMENT caring attitude toward their family and the NOBLES/BORUGEOISIE. Generally speaking one nepalese would rather care for MTV then NTV,war in iraq rather than war in rolpa.And one can easily critisize the restored democray 1991-2003.like the PANDIT OF SAJHA does.You cannot only bame the politicians only sharing the same cake.Also the general public sharing the same.He wouldn't know the chornonolical even in the second restored democracy. 1991-second democray has been achieved by nepalese citizens. 1992-drought condition obstruct the politics and cause losing believe than that the people expect and the anti democracy media fuelled them. 1993-TORRENTIAL RAIN obstruct the politics and cause losing believe than that the people expect and the anti democracy media fuelled them. 1994-UPRISING AGAINT THE GOVT. obstruct the politics and cause losing believe than that the people expect and the anti democracy media fuelled them. 1995-maoist insurrection start and gained popularity among the nepalese .Pointing and making the people believe that they are good for the nation. 1996-FULL SWING MAOIST MOVEMENT launched.and last till the ceasefire jan 2003. QUESTION: How can you measure the democray in nepal and loose faith in the democratic movement..? The present of BABURAM BHATTARAI for the first time in seven years has bought hope to the nation though he is heading for the revision and he has to.His words in certein extenct are relevent. |
| rajunpl | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 06:14 AM
Goo luck for the (****/******) loyalist/oppertunist |
| gokul | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 07:16 AM
Paschim, I see mathematics in politics. You see politics in mathematics. You have real talent for understanding how politics works. Thanks for your insights. IF, If there is no right or wrong, then if somebody murders Baburam and comes to power, then what would you say to that? If the only thing that matters is power and not how it was obtained, then we are in a serious trouble. We are accepting Baburam, not because we are peace-loving people, but because we are impatient and coward. We lack objectivity and judgment. We always take "hachuwa" actions. We don't have the stamina to go through the arduos process of scrutinizing every minute detail of human rights violation that took place in the last seven years. We just give up because that is the easiest way. NK, "Forget about Markovian Sarkovian theory of randomness" This statement itself is a good example of Markov chain. Sarkovian follows Markovian but not the other way round. Bhat saat khanu bho? Chiya siya khayera Sajha ma gaff saff garna katti ramayilo hunchha hagi? Brook, Perhaps one research proposal entitled: The political conciousness of Nepali society is a martingale :-) Biswo, I am glad you validated my Markovian model and did not think I am writing non-sense. Tick, What you wrote about Biswo is not thick. Ashu, Yes, I hear bhajan in the air... Mainbatti, Baburam is using the illusion of "Representativeness". |
| Brook | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 07:38 AM
Politics aside though, Gokul ji are you into behavioral economics/finance or what? |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 09:45 AM
"When Baburam was asked about Krishna Mohan, he retorted, how about Suresh Wagle? When asked about Nudup, he apparently said, what about the children of Rolpa? As if all this trade in blood was for a barter that was mutually beneficial. "Hernus, yuddha ma yestai hunchha" is one hell of an odious excuse. "........ Paschim The more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I get by the facts surrounding Krishna Mohan and Nudup's deaths and the "settling" of silt so soon after the gruesome incident. Were they the sacrificial goats used to appease the power-hungry and blood thirsty in both the factions? |
| sparsha | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 12:34 PM
Biswoji refers to William Falkner [I am pretty certain he means Faulkner, anyway&] and says, "There will be consequences." Well, there will be consequences no matter what. "&Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools&." The sound and the fury [William Faulkner]. "Remember that there is probably not a single politician, and certainly not a royal, who was a victim of the bloodbath." I didn't get this. " &There were about 8,000 deaths in the 'revolution', and that figure is shockingly high, and we deeply resent that. However, we shouldn't forget the broken promise made by Shah rulers, especially by Mahendra in 2017 while dismissing democratically elected government [and also by his son] . These people are the one who mismanaged nation's property, presided over almost every organization in the nation and sucked the resources of the nation, while nation grew poorer during Panchayat rule. Perhaps more than 8,000 people died each year just due to drinking contaminated water. In Nepal, in Karnali, people died like animals, while Shah rulers [and their myrmidions] wasted nation's resources in luxury. We let them go unaccounted, and Maoists leaders will also be enjoying impunity. " Is the nation growing richer and richer since the dismissal or should I say restoration of "democracy?". Is the nation even stable, now? Then there were, probably, few looters - now we have got plenty of them. Ok, since "perhaps more than 8,000 people died each year due to drinking contaminated water", what is the big deal Maoists gunning down 8,000 Nepalis? And why did "we" let the King or "BAD" Shahs go unaccounted? Who are "we" here? I think this "we" incorporates you and I as well. Does it not Bisowji? So, we better accept that we failed to hold the perpetrators accountable then and we still are failing? Why complain? [Biswoji, you sparsha le mero kina khedo khaneko hola bhanera nasochnuhola hai...ma ta tapaiko kayal ho ni....kahile kahi bichar mel khadaina...but my regards to you is not shaky...no!] Gokul wrote, " We, Nepali are very interesting. We forget so quickly so easily. Our society is a memoryless society - living without any feedback, without any analysis." True. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 02:03 PM
Sparshaji, Thanks for raising questions. >"Remember that there is probably not a single > politician, and certainly not a royal, who was >a victim of the bloodbath." I don't know any big time politican or a member of royal family who was hit by Maoists in the last seven years. That is why it is easy for everyone to talk about 'forgetting' the past, and not raising question. I am sure the voice to persecute the guilty would have been louder had the victims been from powerful families. >Is the nation growing richer and richer since > the dismissal or should I say restoration of >"democracy?". I don't know how and where you get these data about our nation being rich since the dismissal of 'democracy'. >Is the nation even stable, now? Then there > were, probably, few looters - now we have >got plenty of them. I guess you are talking about Panchayat. OK, if stability and 'fewer' looters were your idea of being rich and good nation, then I guess Rana rule was the best. I know that only a handful of people were killed in the Rana rule, esp during 1942-1997. Do you think that was the best time? You live in Maryland, Sparshaji, and Butte, Montana has less crime rate than your place. Are you going to live there? Yes, that 'we' means to some extent me. But the major responsibility lies to our collective failure to move decisively against Ranas, Shahs etc when the history provided us the chance. That is why I hope that in the new regime that will be in place after the dialogues of current days, the Shahs will be effectively incapacitated so that our democracy should not hang in the tenterhooks, at the mercy of likes of Paras.And that is why when we sit down, and write our casual observation about our national politics, I think it is important that we don't forget those people who ruled us for hundreds years bear more responsibility than those one who recently started to rule us, after being elected by our votes. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 07:43 PM
*. It will be interesting to see the tug-of-war between the King and the Maoists in near future--one advocating Monarchy using more cultural isseus (like Monarchy is the symbol of unity, it will prevent Sikkimization, etc) and the other using purely political and economic issues (equality, decentralization, blah blah). Main Batti, This won't be the case. For another 10-20-30 years, there will be only two nationalist forces working together, without any tug of war. Gokul, To enter Singhadurbar is very simple. Now, baburam has "almoist" entered Singhadurbar with his "daar-hatya" ko rajniti, he should realize that there can be another even more powerful group than his party and that in no time he would be out of power and in jungle or "maathi". And will that new power and the ways it implied to enter singhadurbar can be said wrong? NO. Because if we say they are wrong, then we would be denying our historcial reality. I somewhere read that there is always a "historcial pattern" and the present/future events follow that pattern. So, I wouldn't be surprised nor say it wrong if somebody else enetres singhadurbar ousting the Maobadi or any badi. |
| Raksiya | Posted
on 03-Apr-03 09:04 PM
A lots of valid points. |
| rajunpl | Posted
on 04-Apr-03 12:42 AM
Gokul :, " We, Nepali are very interesting. We forget so quickly so easily. Our society is a memoryless society - living without any feedback, without any analysis." THIS IS A TOTAL HUMAN NATURE.Everybody does the same.One americans is more carfree than one nepalese is. |
| ashu | Posted
on 04-Apr-03 04:50 AM
I am wondering: For all your righteous indignation and a blanket condemnation of Nepalis in Nepal (i.e. how their memory is khattam and so on), could one of you expat Nepalis, together with other friends abroad, please LEAD and SPONSOR prominent media ads in Nepal saying something like: "For everlasting peace in Nepal, let's join forces to look into ways of forming a publicly accountable Tribunal whose mandate would be to look into the nature of war crimes committed by all parties during the seven years of Maoist insurgency, and mete out appropiate results (exoneration to fines to prisonment) to those found guilty . .. so that we can put a legal closure to the events of the last seven years and move forward in peace." I say that because: 1) I do NOT expect human rights groups in Nepal to push for such solutions in public. [That's because almost all human rights groups in Nepal are run by (closet) communists who raise hell when issues suit their ideological agenda but keep quiet when matters of human rights are ideologically inconvenient/awkward for them to talk about.] 2) I do NOT expect Nepal's lawyers to push for such solutions either. [That's because the legal field in Nepal is hopelessly divided along political-party lines, and most lawyers appear to be academically/intellectually very weak.] 3) I do NOT expect Nepal's media to push for solutions either. [That's because since members of the media were quick to accept medals and awards from Babu Ram, you can imagine the lap-dog -- and NOT watchdog -- mentality they have cultivated over the years.] 4) I do NOT expect writers, poets, activists and professionals in Nepal to push for such solutions either. [That's because, let's be honest, they're all cowards or have their own limitations in Nepal.] So, what does that leave us with? Expat Nepalis or Nepalis living and working abroad who constantly worry about the health of Nepal ko democracy. And that's you guys reading this. And so the question again: Could one of you expat Nepalis, together with other friends abroad, please LEAD and SPONSOR -- as a matter of awareness/jolting-the-public kind of strategy -- prominent media ads in Nepal saying something like: "For everlasting peace in Nepal, let's join forces to look into ways of forming a publicly accountable Tribunal whose mandate would be to look into the nature of war crimes committed by all parties during the seven years of Maoist insurgency, and mete out appropiate results (exoneration to fines to prisonment) to those found guilty . .. so that we can put a legal closure to the events of the last seven years and move forward in peace." ????? Let's hear some leadership actions from you guys. oohi "I live in Nepal and my hands are tied" ashu ktm,nepal |
| rajunpl | Posted
on 04-Apr-03 05:27 AM
Great idea in ashu's eye view.But still how long it will work.I suppose you mean forming NEPALESE COMMUNE. As ashu says "For everlasting peace in Nepal, let's join forces to look into ways of forming a publicly accountable Tribunal whose mandate would be to look into the nature of war crimes committed by all parties during the seven years of Maoist insurgency, and mete out appropiate results (exoneration to fines to prisonment) to those found guilty . .. so that we can put a legal closure to the events of the last seven years and move forward in peace." ????? " Nepal's ill-judiciary system will not allow this in the first context.In the next the attitude of the nepalese there and abroad has the loyalist and one-sided attitude towards a certain party.Some even thinks that they are the ony realist and their point of views should be applied once and for all. For the SPARSHA., Well you claimed that each year 8,000 die due to the contaminated water.What's wrong when maoist gundown the same figure..? First and foremost The political assasination cannot be compared to the natural disaster and alleged propoganda.The killing of the normal people by the khaobadi alongside the maobadi has the bad impact.The killing of maoist,khaoist and the disaster will cross the figure of 16.000 now while it was 8,000 earlier. To critisism of ranas were easy because of their tyranny nature as well as their opression.Then the looting of a rana is equal to the 50 bourgeoisie now.People sees the CIAA evidence but hardly sees the court verdict.People can listen the bogus speech by the king or the alleged politicians but barely sees in the practise. I was shocked when the friend of mine when he asked me for the procedure of the STUDENT VISA got the scholarship and same me was ditched in nowhere.The KHAOBADI existence will ever remain in the nepal unless we will act like THE FRENCH REVOLUTION. TOTAL FREEDOM doesn't come easily neither toughly but by the mutual understanding and coperation of justice and each other. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 04-Apr-03 06:19 AM
I have a lot to write on the ongoing matter but I will try to do that later. Right now, I just stepped in to clarify certain things here. Biswoji, "Is the nation growing richer and richer since the dismissal or should I say restoration of "democracy?". Is the nation even stable, now?" This is a question to you not a statement in response to your "These people are the one who mismanaged nation's property, presided over almost every organization in the nation and sucked the resources of the nation, while nation grew poorer during Panchayat rule." So, your response "I don't know how and where you get these data about our nation being rich since the dismissal of 'democracy'. " is irrelevant. Rajunpl, "For the SPARSHA., Well you claimed that each year 8,000 die due to the contaminated water.What's wrong when maoist gundown the same figure..? " Where did I claim what you have accused me of claiming? Did you even read well before addressing a response to me? Go back to the response Biswoji posted [Posted on 04-02-03 2:32 PM ] "..Perhaps more than 8,000 people died each year just due to drinking contaminated water... I was merely responding to Biswoji by quoting what he said in his post. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 04-Apr-03 10:38 AM
>For all your righteous indignation and >a blanket condemnation of Nepalis in >Nepal (i.e. how their memory is khattam > and so on), could one of you expat > Nepalis, together with other friends >abroad, please LEAD and SPONSOR >prominent media ads in Nepal Ashu, I agree with your proposal, and will definitely raise this thing with local community leaders. I hope others will also do the same. It may be too soon to do so, however. Let the belligerents cool down, enjoy their illusory popularity with a few socialites in KTM, let them make some grandiloquent statements about what a great achievement they have secured with these seven years of chaos and let their weapon rust for sometimes. People talk about helping Maoist pidit or military pidit. The greatest help to their surviving kins would be to know exactly at what circumstances those relatives were killed, and who were responsible for the killing. -- Sparshaji, I guess we differ in our views vis-a-vis democracy in Nepal. The events of future will tell us who is on the wrong side of the history. I believe we all will survive long enough to witness the consequences of today's actions. |
| Arnico | Posted
on 07-Apr-03 10:38 PM
Good points everyone... I will write some responses as soon as I have a bit more freetime. |
| ashu | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 07:05 AM
I am still waiting for expat Nepalis to put their money where their mouth is. For all your condemnation of Nepalis in Nepal and for all your hatred for the fact how the Maoists are now prancing around in Kathmandu as if they were some homecoming heroes, could any one of you -- from wherever you are -- take leadership to publicly denounce the Maoists' bloody war and urge us in Nepal to look for legal ways to put a closure to the crimes committed by all parties during the last seven years? There can be no peace until the healing process can start to take shape. Krishna Mohan's family is already asking that the issue of justice NOT be sidelined in the all these talks in the peace process. What about you? oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| MainBatti | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 04:49 PM
Jangiyo Ashu jangiyo!!! ----------- I really liked your this comment: I am still waiting for expat Nepalis to put their money where their mouth is. From what I know, you are one of those who talks a lot about Nepal and is actually stationed in Nepal even after an Ivy education. That gives you more credibility to your words. You have an ego, but that's fine (although I am simply nobody to judge who you are)--one's ego should be respected not condemned! We need more people like you. Although your words and your picture do not quite match (hehehe...), your words often hit the target. And I like that. I am not trying to stand out from the twenty million Nepalese, as some have been accused me of, but it aches me when some people here talk about all the bad things happening in Nepal--and most of the time blame "Nepalipan" for that--but act in no different way in their own real life. During ANA convention, I clearly remember, a person named Dinesh Prasai asked the panel on Maoist and kunni k discussion that comprised of Daniel Lak, K P Oli and some other people, "Haami yehaa [Maoist, corruption] samasyaa ta chha bhanyou. Tara corrpution jasto bisayemaa haami le yehaa baata yo ek dui wotaa discussion organize baahek garne k? Tesh baare sochauna." Before anyone from the team of panelist could take a shot at the question, the moderator replied--"haamile corruption garne haruko public forum haru maa chalfal/exposure garekai chhau ni. Kehi nagareko hoina." What an answer! I visit like 15 Nepali discussion forums and I am yet to see what that gentleman is doing in public forums. I do not remember any discussions on the public figures--except a couple here in Sajha--that have led to any significant progress. How many times have we asked our own relatives not to indulge in corruption? Shouldn't we as loyal citizens flaunting all our knowlege in public forums be taking at least *some* initiatives in writing to the leaders, Chiranjiwi Wagle, say? That was what Dinesh Prasai was asking (I met him in person later). Bhawadiye, "Intentionally diverting the topic this time, and for a cause" MainBatti, April 8, 2003 |
| Biswo | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 05:31 PM
Ashu, Slowly, man, slowly. I hope a group of people will surely discuss, and do something about it in future, though to what extent is difficult to guess rightnow. |
| ashu | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 06:25 PM
Mainbatti wrote: >> Although your words and your picture do not quite match (hehehe...). >> Yes, countless people have told me that the picture, which is almost three years old, does not quite show how handsome (and legsome) I really am in person :-)))) So do expect a new "saandaar and chwank" photo in about a month from this Friday on the Web site of your favorite newsaper. Other than that, you have an interesting way of doling out compliments, but hey, "santaan thari thari ka", and that's fine. Thanks for your words. Biswo, Sure, I understand. Do what you can. I was/am NOT putting you on the spot, hai. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 08:42 PM
Just thought i'd drop a few lines real quick before I hit the sack. Ashu's suggestion is very bright. Although I do not know what it takes to start this drive, I would be more than happy to be a part of the team that takes the initiative to do so. In other words, I don't know how we can accomplish this but if someone is willing to take the initiative of forming some kind of a team of like minded people with the same motive regarding this issue, then I'm all up for contributing my precious time. Khali kuro garera matra bhayena haamiharu.....let's do something. Biswo, Arnico, Mainbatti, Sitara, Sparsha ji, Nepe ji, Gokul ji and the rest of the people, what do you say? Let us make use of this great platform Sajha to start this project and go a step ahead of all these discussions thus making our collective voice loud enough to be heard by the people in Nepal. It might not be easy but hey like that nepali saying goes, "thopa thopa le samundra bannecha" or something like that. btw Ashu, you could perhaps shed some more light on this matter with more suggestions. And thanks for bringing up this great idea. |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 08:44 PM
missed out the remaining part after "something like that".....we could accomplish the task bhanna khojya. |
| surya | Posted
on 08-Apr-03 08:52 PM
DC nepalis and friends of nepal could go visit someone here in DC and present them with a letter from the Nepali community in the States. Thats probably not that hard to do. |
| gokul | Posted
on 09-Apr-03 06:53 AM
Ashu et al, Glad to see that you want something concrete, not just talk. Let us have a plan for action. Ashu, you can suggest some strategy. I think most of us who visit Sajha are students. So let us do something that is within our capacity. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 21-Apr-03 04:58 PM
(A latecomer to the thread .....) I guess my "sentiment" has been one of peace at any price. So, no, I don't feel BRB is getting "too much" attention. There is no such thing as "too much" attention by a media in a democracy. Let him talk as much as he wants. Let him say what he wants. As in, let's jaw, not war. Put the gun down, run your mouth to full throttle. It is important not to try and corner the Maoists. Or there would be no deal. The peace can not be allowed to be broken. Frankly, I am for a constituent assembly. Only such a fresh start will make BIG concepts like possible republicanism and possible federalism a possible reality. If the people want to retain the monarchy, let it keep on, if not, let it go. Let Gyanendra go back into business, as in literally: running companies rather than a country. I detest the Maoists for their violence. Other than that, they come across as quite progressive on many issues. Like the monarchy. Like on women's rights. I have to take issue with Paschim's fawning admiration of the Nepali Congress stalwarts of the past. He glamorizes the violent ways of the Nepali Congress, but despises the same of the Maoists. Those are double standards. The Congress of the 1990s was like the Ranas of the 1940s, and the Panches of the 1980s. I salute the NC's struggle for democracy, but the party makes it sound like democracy is the end of the journey. As opposed to the beginning. The NC today has run out of fresh ideas. It is intellectually defunct. Temporary peace has been achieved. I still don't know how it came about. But it has. And that is good news. Now that peace has to be made permanent. And the 1990 constitution is NOT it. I mean, look at the so called big parties: (1) Girija wants the parliament revived. That is technically not possible. It is not within the powers of anyone in the country to do so. There is no going back. It would be illegal/unconstitutional to go back. Unless you think Girija's word ought be the law. Look, the guy is just trying to kill two birds - possibly more - with one stone. He gets to sideline Deuba, the UML, the king, and the Maobadis all at once if the parliament is revived. So, no wonder. Girija is like Saddam: inflexible. In a working democracy, a leader has to be willing to cut deals. Making compromises is a good thing. (2) The UML wants Deuba back as Prime Minister!? Is that what? Face the reality folks. The issue for some time has not been whether the NC or the UML should be in power. It has been the civil war. Take care of it first. Bring the peace to a logical conclusion. We will worry about the chief executive position later. Intersting barb on the IA Bhattarai and the PhD Bhattarai. What's up with these high caste folks? They lead all parties. Inter-marriages ko kamaal. Dilasha's comments on Pachim .... a MidWest sighting .... "Let the belligerents cool down, enjoy their illusory popularity with a few socialites in KTM, let them make some grandiloquent statements about what a great achievement they have secured with these seven years of chaos and let their weapon rust for sometimes. " That would be a way to break the peace and rekindle the civil war. "How many times have we asked our own relatives not to indulge in corruption? " One should not refrain from corruption as ac act of favor, but because there would be legal consequences .... |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 21-Apr-03 06:13 PM
Good discussions and I am really happy to see all of us can think about it and have some opinions. Ashuji, I think 'putting the money where the mouth is' is not sufficient. Let me explain: My frustation is: I think all of us are missing the BIG picture by delving into the rats eye view and not looking beyond. King strolling around India in pilgrimage while most crucial MEETINGS going on in Nepal, yesterday's Killer getting Hero's Home Coming welcome and freely going around the same area where NUDUP's blood has not yet even dried, politicians give all sorts of conflicting seemingly provocative statements but do nothing concrete. King restores all conservative religious rituals in 21st century which was dead for decades, and so called Maoists leaders change their rhoteric one thousand times about their positions on most crucial subjects which they seemingly fought for, namely King, constituent assembly, multi party systems, federalism etc. You think, King is peace loving? You think Nepali junta is opportunists and dumb? You think democratically elected Neta's are guttless? You think Baburam is peace loving and democratic? All wrong my friend, all wrong. I feel in this whole puzzle, only one thing is missing. And if you answer that missing puzzle, everything else falls in right place, and smoke lifts from mirror and you see clear picture..... And the puzzle is very simple, I think the Nudup's knew the puzzle, Girija knows the puzzle, Deuba knows the puzzle, Mr, Nepal knows the puzzle, most of the Nepli elite's know the puzzle, CIA knows the puzzle, Bajpayee knows the puzzle, Hu knows the puzzle. Everyone is stunt, they don't know how to react. What to do. They try to decide on something, and see the dead end, retreat and don't know what to do. Remember the story of a Jungle where all the animals decided to be the food for a lion king one by one? We need a Kharayo here. My friend, nothing will work. Nothing!. My spine has become ice cold, just writing this...... - my 2 cents!!!!! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 21-Apr-03 06:22 PM
Logical Sense, Its a time in Nepal where no logic, no theories and predictions work. See, everything has changed alll of a sudden due to the mounting students' protests and seems like things will keep on changing. I don't know who knows what but all I know is "its time for the King to take another major step." |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 22-Apr-03 07:17 AM
"When Baburam was asked about Krishna Mohan, he retorted, how about Suresh Wagle? When asked about Nudup, he apparently said, what about the children of Rolpa? As if all this trade in blood was for a barter that was mutually beneficial. "Hernus, yuddha ma yestai hunchha" is one hell of an odious excuse. "........ Paschim When I read the article on right top corner in light green-blue back ground, I was disgusted with the man whom my maobadi friends used to praise the man called "Dr. Babu Ram Bhattarai". A father slaps his kids, and mother slaps the same kids, and when judge ask them, the father replied that he slapped kids because the mother also slapped the kids and the same reply was from mother? Who is the victim? Third person, neither the father nor the mother, but, the poor kids. Similarly, Baburam's justfication on Mr. Krishna Mohan and Nudup 's killing was similar. I was asking why should a third person be victim in the war between RNA and Maoists? Thanks to Kantipur for giving special space in the Kantipur on that statements. Many peoples who were not Maoists could not digest the statements. Another note, I always heard that BabuRam Bhattarai is great orater, but, when I heard his first public speech, I felt him shivering "kamiraheko" and was speaking like a pundit doing path in religious ceremony, speaking so fast, and you could realize him a Chat Pate in Open theature selling that so called ayurved medicine. Anyway, that was great fun to see him shivering and chanting in front of news reporters. Similarly, the Badal was also very much interesting when Bijay Kumar interviewed him. He was telling that the Parlimentarian parties don't have arms, so they are just followers and can not have real role in this peace process. Hatti ayo ayo bhaneko ta fussa po rahechha. HG |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 22-Apr-03 10:32 AM
IFJyu, I am sorry if I could not make my logic clearer than what I did about the missing piece in the puzzle. If I had then I hope you wouldn't ask about King making yet another major step. ;( Gurujyu, Sadar Namaskaar. Nikai Dinma Dekha Parnu Bho Ni? Akkal Jhukkal TND M Dekhya Thiyen. Can you imagine when a killer says that democratically elected leaders has no role since they don't have ARMS. God! Nepal lai kasle bachaune? |
| Nepe | Posted
on 22-Apr-03 05:40 PM
Dilashaji, Thank you for your call. I want to say right away that I think the issue of war abuse/accountability is way too important for our collective silence to continue. The way I see it, it is not a question of a mere justice, it does not endanger the peace talk, rather it compliments it, there is a smart way to do that (I differ from Paramendra's view on this) and there is a serious reason which I must say is missing from our collective vision yet makes it unquestionably necessary to deal this issue before the peace talk succeeds or fails. I will come back to these points shortly. Before that I feel like visiting interesting and stimulating postings of fellow sajhaites in this thread. ************** First of all, I want to mention Ashu. It goes without saying that Ashu is the brightest professional provocateur of Sajha. I like the way he asks difficult questions (Note that I said 'asks', I did not say 'answers'). I recall one more occasion besides this one when his 'difficult question' was followed by, to be a bit dramatic, a deafening silence of old Sajha hastis before they exploded. Thread: Truth Obscured Started by: Ashu Date: July 29, 2002 About: A Dutch journalist's report on the excess by the Royal Nepal Army Archive: http://sajha.summitusa.com/openthread.cfm?threadid=6101 I thank Ashu for his relentless persuit to put everybody on the spot. Job well done, Ashuji. ************** Some of our bright Sajhaites swear they do not understand Nepal ko politics. But it seems to me nobody has understood Nepal ko politics better than they have. And there are others who have said several excellent things about politics. But in essence, they seem struggling to understand Nepal ko politics, especially about Maoists. Gokulji says: >I have never understood politics let alone found it interesting. >It is inconsistent and biased. It changes its color like the >Chameleon of that great Russian story writer. See ? If Gokulji has not understood politics, how could he describe it so accurately ? Gokulji, you say Politics is inconsistent. I say politics is consistent. Its inconsistency is it's consistency. If you focus on color, yes it does change. But if you focus on the chameleon you will always see the same. Maoists are chameleon, they have never changed ! Friends, have you not wondered if there is a grand unified theory about Nepal ? You know that grand unified ultimate single theory that describes everything about Nepal, its politics and culture, it's strength and weaknesses, its past, present and future (OK, let's leave the future !) ? Gokulji wrote: >Our society is a memoryless society - living without any feedback, >without any analysis. Perhaps we are purely Markovian, purely >Buddhistic. Living moment by moment. When I read these lines, I swear I was shocked. Not because they were shocking, but because they were true. And here is an even more shocking part. For sometime, I was floating this idea in my mind that I have discovered the ultimate unified theory of Nepal. I had even given a name to this theory, that was 'Aajako chhaak taaraun, bholi dekha jaayegaa-ism' (Aa.Chhaa. Taa. Bho. De Jaa.-ism). And lo, behold, Gokulji comes and throws exactly the same theory, only more sophisticated, 'Markovian living'. Shock behind, I think Gokulji (and myself. hehe) has just gave us the ultimate unified theory of Nepal. It explains everything. Just try. Although I said they were exactly same, I would like to point to a feature of my theory that I am not sure if Gokulji's theory encompass or emphasize. Markovian process ignores the past. 'Aa.Chhaa. Taa. Bho. De Jaa.-ism' does not care about the future. It lacks far-sightedness. If we revisit our recent history we will see every decision we made was to 'chhak taarna' of that day. We made the easiest compromise good only for that day. Two days later we discovered it is not working. No wonder Nepal ko politics is so confusing. No wonder nobody has understood Maoists, even Maoists themselves. contd.. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 22-Apr-03 05:41 PM
************************* Paschim and I have a pleasant history of respectful disagreements on issues of the Monarchy and to some extent on Maoists too. Talking about the monarchy and Maoists, Paschim had an interesting comment about them in a separate thread. Paschim observed an evolving chemistry between the monarchy and Maoists. I understand Paschim's explanation about what that was based on. However, my eyes do not see any chemistry there. All I see is physics, I don't see chemistry at all. In Gokulji's terms, they are colors of the chameleon. Chameleon remains the same. The conflict remains the same. ************************** Now, back to Dilashaji's call. Let me bring back that ghazal 'Naya Taja Kahawat' I had promoted in Sajha. The first sher after makta of that ghazal says what I believe should be done. Tarera je aayau, naaghera je aayau, aba hunuparchha Ek ek laasha ko, ragat ko sanakhat bistarai bistaarai Now, let me explain why ? I am not pessimistic. But I don't see any chemistry evolving between the monarchy and Maobadi. For some tactical purpose, Maoists has said this and that. They even had a nice word for Birendra in the past. However, they had made it clear that they were talking about the person, the conflict with the institution remains the same. They are for the abolition of the monarchy from day one to this very minute. And if Badri Mandal is speaking in a full 'hosh-hawaash', then we pretty much read the lip of Gyanendra. So, basically, unless some miracle happens (mind you no miracle has happened in Nepal's history), a final showdown is awaiting. My point is that the balance of the power between the king and Maoists does nothing. It is the imbalance that will do things. Now, since the war abuse/excess/crime are committed by both the royal Nepal Army and Maoists almost in an equal proportion, dealing with it will not contribute to any imbalance. If public can maintain the pressure, we can make them say, OK hamro laai pani karbahi garne, timro laai pani karbahi garne. See, the most difficult part is solved. Now, keeping the account of every victim, a liberal compensation or other form of healing are not that difficult. What if both RNA and Maoists refuse or make mutual agreement to bury the past ? This is where we need our voice strong and vigilante. And we need a smart way to deal with them. Here is what our arguments should be like. 'Bir krantikari Maobadi ho, bahadur deshbhakta sena ho ! You went to war to make a supreme sacrifice to achieve what you believed in. You indeed made unimaginable sacrifices. Now this last sacrifice is one which is left. Take responsibility of the individual action you did. Let a clean history begin.' Astoo. |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 23-Apr-03 07:46 AM
BRB says: "They (parliamentary forces) themselves are in a bundle of confusion after the cease-fire announcement reached on January 29. They wanted to come in power riding on students shoulders." ====> read these two sentences and enjoy what Maoists mean. Whether they own any mirror??????????????????? He also accused the parliamentary forces of attempting to disrupt the peace talks. ========> Maoists deserved the lesson. Tit for tat. (Still, I am not supporter of the group who vandalized TU 's computer or burnt the library or press). >> Dr Bhattarai also gave an outline of a new model of democracy in which all castes, ethnic communities, classes and religion would be represented, based on the principle of proportional representation in the government. Maoists talking about democracy. That is the most entertaining part of the story. By wearing hat of French revolution time, does not make them better. Gadha dhoyera gai hunna. >> Other Maoist leaders also expressed their anger over the security checks of their vehicles and said government forces "misbehaved" with them. Who knows what they are carrying. Last time too, Maoists used cease fire as their time to prepare war against RNA. Till then, RNA never thought that Maosits will attack RNA camps, but, the past event clearly indicates Maoists might be preparing for next level of war using the cease fire to transfer war utilities. >>> "We had already informed Minister Pun about our journey to Dhangadi. But the security forces did not spare us." Sometime, they say Pun is nothing, and other time they complain he did not work according to their interests. Its also funny. Janata haru: Laugh loud today, you don't know tomorrow. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 23-Apr-03 08:00 AM
Nepe: "....it does not endanger the peace talk, rather it compliments it, there is a smart way to do that (I differ from Paramendra's view on this) ..." If the peace talks are not endangered, and there is a way to go back and document the atrocities on both sides and seek recourses, I'd be for it. But I am not for endangering the peace talks. So please suggest how both cakes can be had... I will have to agree with Nepe on his observation of the following, it is insightful: Gokulji wrote: >Our society is a memoryless society - living without any feedback, >without any analysis. Perhaps we are purely Markovian, purely >Buddhistic. Living moment by moment. I don't think it is the GUT (Grand Unified Theory), but is greatly insightful. "....Paschim observed an evolving chemistry between the monarchy and Maoists...." The Maoists claim to be anti-monarchy. But they never made peace with the janata ko chhoras like Girija and Deuba. Now they have made peace with King G. Curious, eh. Tarera je aayau, naaghera je aayau, aba hunuparchha Ek ek laasha ko, ragat ko sanakhat bistarai bistaarai Wah -- wah -- wah. "...They even had a nice word for Birendra in the past. ..." Isn't that amazing? These self-described republicans actually fantasized that Birendra was WITH them!? ".....a final showdown is awaiting..." That is what I fear. "....the past event clearly indicates Maoists might be preparing for next level of war using the cease fire to transfer war utilities..." Could that be on both sides? That preparation for the ultimate showdown? "Janata haru: Laugh loud today, you don't know tomorrow." I see this a disrespectful statement. Disrespectful of the "janata." |
| ashu | Posted
on 23-Apr-03 08:14 AM
Hahoo guru wrote: >>>Another note, I always heard that BabuRam Bhattarai is great orater, but, when I heard his first public speech, I felt him shivering "kamiraheko" and was speaking like a pundit doing path in religious ceremony, speaking so fast, and you could realize him a Chat Pate in Open theature selling that so called ayurved medicine. Anyway, that was great fun to see him shivering and chanting in front of news reporters. ********* Actually, GP-ji, as somebody who does NOT agree with Maoist ideology, I worry that BRB is NOT a charismatic person, that he is NOT articulate with words in ways an orator is supposed to be, that he has not encouraged persoality cults and that he appears to be willing to be a relatively low-key academic within the Maoist hierarchy. I say I worry about all that because if you look at world history, five netas who did much harm and caused much destruction to their own people were all larger-than-life figures, the ones who were charismatic orators, the ones who went on cultivat cults based on their own personalities. And they were Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao and Saddam Hussein. I worry that the same cannot be said of BRB. You see, charisma is way over-rated. Charismatic netas are like a flash in the pan: here today, gone tomorrow. They are usually easy to spot. It's the quiet, fumbling ones you have to look out for . . cause they are easy to be under-estimated, and when they mislead, they mislead BIG time. Conversely, these quiet ones usually have the tenacity of a bulldog to get what they want, come hell or highwater. It's the quiet part of of BRB I worry about rather than his swagger. So, GP-ji, don't let BRB's press conference fool you. I would NOT underestimate the Maoists and BRB at all based on their "kamiraheko" voice and all that. Believe it or not, and like it or not, we're all playing high-stake poker here for the very survival of this very endearing but goddamn frustrating country we lovingly call home. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| paramendra | Posted
on 23-Apr-03 08:29 AM
As per Nepe, I just checked this out: http://sajha.summitusa.com/openthread.cfm?threadid=6101 "..In the name of fighting terrorists cruel things are being done to innocent people." "....the two forces that slowly but surely erode his belief in justice and a truly democratic society: the Maoists insurgents and the security forces....." And those are the two forces making peace, or pretending to,on behalf of the rest of the country. "....what publisher/journalist Kanak Mani Dixit calls an 'unwilling[ness] to test the limit of the government's restriction on press freedom.' .." Press Freedom, by definition, has no limits. If there are ANY limits, there is NO press freedom. "....The number of people killed during the past seven months has reached 3,500, 75 percent of them by security forces in 'encounters' and 'crossfire'. .." 3500! "...Ashu: Acts like a bartender. Serves the drink. But does not drink it himself. ..." LOL Sitara's piece there is great...... -Nepal is a difficult mountaineous country...communication and dissemination of information is almost impossible!!! -Most Nepalese are illiterate, hence, ignorant. -Nepalese are Not open to change and new ideas. -They are steeped in religious superstitions and traditions. -They do not recognize the benefits of 'modernization' and 'civilization' -Hence, the Developmental Nepalese Cause for positive change is surely doomed....!!!!!!!!!! But, here is the irony: How the hell did someone manage to plant an alien seed (...to Nepalese religion, culture, traditions) of the most "alien" concept of Maoism....????????? Apply this question to the developmental woes of the contributing donors and our own government. Often times the Sajha forum descends into looking down upon the Nepali commoners: they can't think, they don't have much choice, they make wrong choices, blah, blah, blah. Sitara's piece counters that current. Bravo. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 02-May-03 03:26 AM
Paramendra: Good to see you again! Gracious, you re-visited that old thread? Thanks for the comments though... that was written in a "momentary" fit of Passion! But didn't Eric Fromm's theory come true--regarding terrorists, heroes and shifts in the social structure? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-May-03 09:29 AM
Sitara. Plz educate/inform on some of the details you proffer! |