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 UNTOUCHABILITY FREE NEPAL....wow!!!

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Posted on 06-05-06 2:42 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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HOR declares Nepal “untouchability free” country

In yet another major announcement, the reinstated House of Representatives on Sunday unanimously endorsed a proposal to declare Nepal a country “free of untouchability and all kinds of discrimination.”

The legal and constitutional status of the proposal, however, remains unclear.

Moving a proposal of “urgent public importance,” a lawmaker of the CPN (UML), Parshuram Neghi Gurung, called on so-called dalit community—that constitutes 16 percent of the country’s 27 million population—in all processes of making new constitution and ending all sorts of discriminatory policies and practices including so-called untouchability.

The proposal calls for mobilization of special economic programme for education, health and employment for dalits and those under the absolute poverty line to their status.

The constitution of the kingdom of Nepal 1990 prohibits all types of discrimination against citizens on the basis of caste, gender or religion. But activists said a number of discriminatory provisions and laws were still in practice.

Addressing the House session on Sunday, Minister for Law, Justice and Parliamentary Affairs Narendra Bikram Nemwang said untouchability was a social crime and that the government would introduce a new bill soon to make necessary amendments in the existing Act.

Earlier, the House of Representatives has already declared Nepal a secular state and asked the government to formulate laws so as to issue citizenship certificated to children in the name of their mother. Earlier, the certificate could be issued in the name of father only.
 
Posted on 06-07-06 9:42 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hmm interesting thread going on. May I ask Felicity what relgion she's converting from? And how much of THAT religion she's studied and why she found MORE appealing than that religion. I think Felicity's oe smart chick who likes to delve into people's minds about certain topics by making herself the topic. If you're not, I'd still wanna know.
Every religion is ok with me. I grew up with hinduism/buddhism like most nepalese so I found find it terribly hard to follow a different religion. Religion is leant through childhood- through the pervading culture in household, community etc etc.
Reading a book and deciding that that particular religion suits onese;f seems kinda hard for me, im not saying its hard for you.
However I would make you cautious that it will be a lifetime's journey and that the parents you have loved thus so far, your family, your silings, friends may find it unpalatable and may be hurt by your decision. Changing your religion in their perspective would a step by you towards alienating yourself from them. Especially your parents who have sacrificed so much would feel you have not acknowledged their sacrifice. But then again you have your life to life.
Besides, the way I look at it, people choose whether to make religion active in one's life. In my case, religion doesnt play a major role in my life. My culture surely does. Going through a conversion at an age where you become enlightened about so many things brings forth questions that may deviate your life from the things you want to do. It applies to a conversion into any kind of religion- hinduism, christianity, judaism...anything.
So make sure you think carefully. Besides being a girl you have all eyes on you. Just thought i'd post on this thread because I rarely come across people converting- let alone people converting to islam.
Maybe there's some adventure people find in converting into the most controversial religion. Is that the case with you? you decide- just my opinion. But it'll be interesting as hell to hear your response if you do convert.
If you're a hindu right now- it'll be even the more intersting.
 
Posted on 06-07-06 9:56 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Its Felicity's choice whether she wants to be hindu or muslim.
i can bash muslim so much right here is Sajah that you won't believe it.Better not make me start .
Go ahead change if you want probably you are one of those modern hindus who think the social issues that seen back home is due to Hinduism.You are educated and you know what to no one can force you.
have fun wearing burkha!:)it does keep you warm in winter.:)and if you live in Florida its even fun .it also keeps you cooler.:)

this is the best reasons i am giving you to change to muslim .I do not have to give reasons for you to change to hindu as i don't want people like you to be hindu.SEE YA .TA TA
 
Posted on 06-07-06 11:02 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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What a wonderful news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First of of I would like to thank to SANTOSHGIRI who dare to post the wonderful topic. I was waiting to see “free of untouchability and all kinds of discrimination.” which finally declared. There is a big social problem of untouchability in Nepal and so called dalits are living the lowest standard life being lower than a dog. Which is unacceptalble and big crime. The nepalese society is influenced to criticize these dalit people and all the proverbs and the saying they use to explain about the something bad is always dalit. According to survey of some NGO and INGO there are 25% population are dalits. That means there is huge number of dalit population. Lack of law they are living the lower level life. It is glad to hear that Nepal is free of Untouchability however it might be limited only on paper. All the responsible citizens and human rightist should give the pressure to apply in the practice. They have to announce how much punishable if someone wants of ignore the law. Definately, it is unacceptable for the uneducated and exploiter nepali community at the beginning so they have to strictly apply in practice. Any kind of discrimination between human being is big crime so, all of the aware community of Nepal should discourage the untouchability and discrimination.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 12:09 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Dalits in Nepal: Story of Discrimination
Anita Shrestha

Nepal retains its centuries-old caste system. Dalits, the discriminated people under this system, suffer from restriction on the use public amenities, deprivation of economic opportunities, and general neglect by the state and society.

More than twenty Dalit caste groups exist in the country at present. Identifying a caste group is problematic. It requires a study of diverse cultures of different ethnic groups and geographical areas. Thus even the government classification system is open to question.

In view of the still unsettled system of classifying Dalit caste groups, estimating the Dalit population is difficult. One estimate puts the number of Dalit people at 13.09 % out of the total population of 23,151,423.[1] This means that the total Dalit population is 3,030,067, with Kami the largest group with 29.57% and Halkhar the smallest group with 0.12 %. Dalit women comprise 51% of the total Dalit population.

Discrimination against Dalits

Dalits are discriminated against on the basis of caste and “untouchability.” They are not only discriminated by the so-called higher caste people in the Hindu system, but also by people within the same caste. Dalit women suffer much more than Dalit men.

Two studies [2] show that most Dalits suffer from discriminatory practices involving food and drink (38.9%) and prohibition of entry into houses, temples and other public places (28.3%). Both studies show that incidence of caste­based discrimination is higher in the western region than in the eastern region of the country. It means that the form and extent of discrimination against Dalits are positively correlated with the extent of development of the area where they reside.

a. Social and cultural discrimination

Dalits are discriminated in the religious and cultural spheres. They are not allowed to practice Hindu rituals, norms and values in the same manner as other castes. To escape from this discrimination, they converted into Christianity. And yet even within their Christian communities only those belonging to higher castes can become religious leaders or occupy key positions in the church.

b. Traditional caste-based occupation and forced labor

Dalits have been relegated to do caste-based work as black/goldsmith, tailors, shoemakers and street cleaners, all are considered of low social status. Poverty and lack of other means of livelihood force the Dalits to continue their traditional occupations. Dalit women and children are also forced to work in the households of their landlords. They do not get justifiable wage for their labor. If they do not work for others, they work as help of their husbands in the traditional jobs of Dalits. Those working in Haliya Pratha (bonded labor) or Khala Pratha (forced labor) are not even earning from their work. They may get food grains.

Dalits who are able to get a wage-earning job suffer from unfair wage system. They get much less than their non-Dalit counterparts. Dalit women, on the other hand, get lesser wage than Dalit men.

Lack of modern technology skills and financial resources prevent them from getting employed in new industries or trade in the market.

Dalits who change from traditional occupation to wage labor do not therefore necessarily improve their economic conditions.

c. Discrimination in education

Untouchability is practiced in schools, be they government- or NGO- supported schools. Teachers do not take care of their Dalit students. In remote areas of Nepal, Dalit students could not sit beside the so-called high-caste students. There are documented cases in NGO-supported schools of isolating Dalit students when eating school-supplied food, and treating them badly. Scholarships for Dalit students are inadequate if not irregular.

Likewise, the so-called high-caste teachers do not want Dalits to become teachers because they do not want to do the traditional gesture of giving respect to them. They also do not want to eat and drink together with them as is the custom among teachers.

Competent Dalit teachers are discouraged from occupying higher executive positions in schools.

d. Denial of entry

Dalits are denied entry into the houses of higher castes, temples, hotels/restaurants, teashops, food factories, dairy farms and milk collection centers, among others. They can go to schools, offices and work places. However, there are newspaper reports that in some schools in Jumla region, Dalit students sit outside the classrooms.

The denial of entry into private houses of higher caste people extends to their cowsheds in the case of the far western Nepal. They have a belief that if a Dalit enters the cowsheds and touches the rope of cows or buffaloes and the water pot, the animals will die or will give less quantity of milk.

The prohibition on entering temples prevents the Dalits from participating in the religious activities inside the temples. They have to be content with worshipping outside the temple building. Dalit women who enter the temple are humiliated by the temple priests as well as by higher-caste people.

A Dalit who drinks tea in a teashop has to wash the cup used otherwise the proprietor will beat him/her up.

e. Low participation in activities of the government, non­governmental organizations and donors

Government officials generally ignore, and at times ill-treat, Dalits seeking services from the government. Treated like second-class citizens, services are generally delayed. They are also abused by addressing them with disrespectful words (such as using the word tan instead of Hajur or Tapain).

Dalit women development programs of the government or donor agencies are elaborated without the participation of the Dalit women themselves. This leads to the implementation of development programs that are not applicable to the Dalits.

f. Social boycott

The so-called “social boycott,” a practice of exclusion of people from their families and group, is normally resorted to in cases of

i) Inter-caste marriages, where a higher-caste man marries a lower-caste woman. It also happens when non-Dalit women marry Dalit men. In both cases, the women bear the brunt of the disapproval of the marriage;
ii) Failure to follow traditional norms and values (applicable to Dalits and non-Dalits);

iii) Refusal of the Dalits to undertake their traditional caste-based occupation, such as disposal of dead animals.

g. Weak exercise of political rights

Key positions in political parties are mostly held by higher-caste people. Dalits, prevented from holding these positions, are always discouraged from exercising their political rights. Political leaders pay “lip service” to Dalit communities in order to collect votes. Political parties mobilize the Dalits only to serve the interest of the party. Political parties, like Nepal Dalit Sang (Nepali Congress) and Nepal Dalit Jatiyal Mukti Samaj of the Communist Party of Nepal/United Marxist League, are considered pro-Dalits. But these parties never encourage Dalits to become candidates themselves, resulting in few Dalit representatives in the National Assembly. There are only four Dalit representatives nominated in the parliament. The voices of the Dalits are hardly heard, and the representatives are instead used by different political parties.

Representation of Dalit women in party politics is almost negligible. Though the constitution of Nepal has reserved seats for women, which is limited to 5% of the total seats for national and local elections, political parties deny any seat to Dalit women. At the same time, Dalit women are not empowered to use the opportunity granted by the Constitution.

h. Atrocities against Dalits

Dalits suffer from a number of atrocities such as battering, mental torture, rape, break-up of inter-caste marriage, false allegations, etc. Higher-caste people do not hesitate to beat Dalit women in public places, if they are found to break laws, or norms and values of the Hindu tradition.

Obstacles

The struggle of the Dalits in Nepal against discrimination suffers from a number of obstacles.

Unity among the Dalit organizations is a big obstacle. They all share a common vision: equitable and just society for the Dalits. But with Dalit caste hierarchy and intra-caste discrimination, they lack unity to be able to achieve the goal.

Coordination between the Dalit movement and other movements like women’s movement and the indigenous people's movement is lacking. Without solidarity among them, the Dalit movement cannot be strengthened.

Communication gap between local communities and central government is another obstacle. The eight-point program, launched by the previous Prime Minister in June 2001 supposedly meant to eliminate untouchability by helping the empowerment and economic upliftment of the Dalits, is an example. Punishment for caste-based discrimination is highlighted in this program. But since the Dalit communities are unaware of this program, the Dalits do not benefit from it.

The 1990 Constitution of Nepal prohibits any form of discrimination on the basis of caste, race, sex and religion. Such forms of discrimination are punishable by law. But the reality is that all these forms of discrimination are still in practice. Ex-Minister Padma Narayan Chaudhary’s adverse reaction in the case of the Chamar social boycott in the Terai district regarding the Chamars’ collective decision to stop disposing animal carcasses, a dirty and stigmatized occupation, is an example. If the leaders or policymakers themselves prevent the implementation of laws, how can they make proper laws with appropriate punishment in case of violations?

Conclusion

The Dalit problem cannot be resolved overnight. Its solution requires a combination of action on the part of the Dalit communities, the government, and the political parties. The Dalit issues should now be treated as political issues that deserve the attention of government bureaucrats and politicians. Laws against the discrimination of the Dalits should be properly enforced, and government programs for uplifting the economic and social status of the Dalits should be fully implemented.

Anita Shrestha is a staff of the Feminist Dalit Organization (FEDO).

For further information, please contact: Feminist Dalit Organization, P.O.Box 4366, Kathmandu, Nepal, ph 0977-01-520982or 543986, fax 0977-01-520982, e-mail dms@fedo.wlink.com.np




Endnotes

1. This is based on an estimate using the official 2001 Census made by the Feminist Dalit Organization (FEDO). This estimate does not include the Newars. They are considered to be part of the indigenous population.

2. See Sharma, Khagendra, Gyanu Chetri and Sita Rana, A Modest Study of the Current Socio­Ecomonic Situation of the Lowest Status Caste and Tribal Communities in Nepal, Save the Children (Kathmandu: Save the Children-US, 1994), and Bhattachan, Krishna B., Kamala Hemchuri, Yogendra B. Gurung, Chakraman M. Bishwokarma, Existing Practices of Caste­Based Untouchability in Nepal and Strategy for a Campaign for its Elimination (Final Report), Action­Aid Nepal (Kathmandu: Action­Aid Nepal, 2001).

 
Posted on 06-08-06 12:47 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Again Let me repeat this again about the declaration:
As the great terrorist leader prachanda says: there is no difference between this declaration of the HOR and the declaration Of King Mahendra.

Stop prasing SPA for the crap.Yes we know and i have seen lot of dalit and how they are being treated in society.The point to be noted is that implementation is necessary then we will consider them HERO othewise .Say as much as you want .Declare 1 million times in Parliament nothing is going to change.

AND all Stop acting that this is the first time this kind of things has been declared and supporting one after another illegal house proclamations and cheap popularity stunt of SPA.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 2:58 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hi everyone… I am back. Sorry…been busy.
Wow…what overwhelming postings. Well.. I have to agree though that this is a great expansion of my somewhat limited knowledge.
Let me clarify couple things…… when I said what I like about ISLAM….. absence of caste system was what appealed me most…and then of course monotheism. See… I grew up in a society…..where there was great injustice. My own family was unjust as a matter of fact. when I was small, I had a very best fren who was socalled dalit, and everytime I played with her…I had to go through this whole ritual of sunpani chharkane and etc etc. That always got on my nerves…even when I was not able to understand the rules of society. So, as I grew older I was clearer in my views about untouchability……this is when I started reading about religion books and found ISLAM for me. Now that does not mean you would or should feel the same about Islam. And, I said I do not like polytheism… I really don’t see why should I go and worship to MAHADEV? I mean…I was very ashamed when I went to Pashupati…to see a “linga” being worshipped...so again…mind it… I AM JUST TALKING FOR MYSELF ..IT IS MY VIEW AND I DON’t IMPOSE IT on OTHERS…. SO please…no need to judge me based on that. ike I told you before… I am just a novice student of Islam…and I still don’t know so many things. Yet, I would definitely go on reading more and share my knowledge with you. However, postings in this thread have really helped me understand many many things. And…I really do appreciate you all for that. I would DEFINITELY think of all you have said BEFORE I make my decision to convert.
Thank you all for your kind remarks.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:00 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Imi,

I had already stated taht burkah is not mandatory in islam. but still if u persist i wear one.... well... tahnks.. i definelty would enjoy it... and no..i dont live in florida... too bad haan?

Anyways... thanks for venting your feelings. Again, i will definitely think about your suggestions as well.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:04 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Just one quote.. at the end:

"Men are afraid to rock the boat in which they hope to drift safely through life's currents, when, actually, the boat is stuck on a sandbar. Wouldn't they be then better off to rock the boat and try to shake it lose?

~ sorry.. i forgot whose quote is this......
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:08 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Felicity,

Who can tell if the boat is stuck or not. Instead of making assumptions of anothers failure, it makes more sense to paddle your own boat and enjoy it while doing so.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:15 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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I AM talking about my own boat...bhushan. This is why I am rocking my entire life... see?

Well.. u guys have been really great in defining and clarifying so many things to me...taht i indeed am indebted.
 
Posted on 06-08-06 3:19 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Here u go.. i found the quoter...
THOMAS SZASZ
 
Posted on 06-08-06 5:16 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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elicity ,
if you say burkha is not product of islam then i say caste system is not
product of hinduism either.
The both kind of descrimination are due to socioeconomic stucture of the
society.As the society gets more educated
these social evils gets eradicated automatically. The person who use to do sun
pani - i bet didn't had good educational
background(no offense intended) Now you may argue even educated people do
descriminate.then U need to think this way
Doesn't descrimination exist in most developed nations?

You have free to choose your religion go ahead with ur choice but not because
you found bad things about hindu religion
.Hindu religion has much more to offer.
You said - shiva linga - u are ashamed of worshipping. Do you know that whole
world runs on that!!that is the symobol
that defines the fetilzation.You are modern you need to explore the modern
meanings of the each and every aspect of hinduism.the symbol that whole world
worships :)

Unlike some people who just know how to put down thier own religion in Sajah.
Times has changed ,before people were not taught logically the teachings of
hinduism.Give your self a sec and think what
we do in hindusim and why we do that.Gita is an excellent example to lead your
life .what didn't you find in Gita that you found in Islam.

I can give you good teachings on that. i am not guru on hindu religion- my
interpretation.It is most logical and scientific
religion.Unlike others who were just branches of reforms .Some person appeared
and started against social issue and new religion begins.
I think they are more political then religion.i have respect for my religion
and i don't want to say bad about other religion
to upset other people.

Are you sure the reason behind your conversion is due your childhood? I smell
something else.If you are doing this
for your love . What kind of love you got who doesn't even respect your
beliefs?(nothing personal)Does love need religion.

.I think the biggest teaching of hinduism is love and other religion (i know
agrees as well)
 
Posted on 06-08-06 5:21 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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FELICITY :
THIS IS FOR U:
"There is hope in men, not in society, not in systems, not in organized religious systems, but in you and in me". J. Krishnamurti

So, if u are running away from hinduism Then you are running away from yourself.Nothing more than that.
 
Posted on 06-09-06 9:10 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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IMI...
thanks for the explanations. AND NO>>>>>.. neither the events in childhood NOR for the love am i going to do this, I am one stubborn girl that does things for her own reason. I ALWAYS>>>ALWAYS follow my heart. No muslim boyfren in picture... sorry to dissappoint you. I just wanted something more than mundane...thats all. And .... I AM STILL Studying... haven't converted yet. And, some things work for some people something else work for yet other people/// so this is indeed abt personal choice. It is not as simple as an arithmatical equation.

But I am very open to critcism as well to learning new things. So go ahead teach me more abt GEETA.

Thnaks
 
Posted on 06-09-06 9:40 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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As you said you are very stubborn girl And you do stuff for your own sake. Then be it.
I cannot teach you .BUT you can teach yourself .Did you take even interest as how i said in last message .Can i ask you why didn't you explore what you have first .You don't even know what you have with you right now and you move to look for other things.If you are not satisfied with what you have then it makes sense.

I am not disappointed that you don't have boy friend or you are not doing for someone . Why should i be?I don't really care.

I was trying to tell you because you critised your faith.
here one more for you:
"Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"
"little knowledege is dangerous thing"
 
Posted on 06-09-06 10:52 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Yes.... Imi.. when did I say I would not like to explore what I have in hand??? I am asking you to teach me. It is just that ur smelling something else (as u put it)..... ticked me off. I indeed am stubborn... but i never harm others or hurt others. So before i pace another step... i always make sure i am not stepping on someone else.

okay.. teach me. i would definitely love to learn more abt hinduism. so what is your take on caste system as well? i have to be somewhere right now.. but will read ur posting in late noon.

In hope to be enlightened,
Felicity
 
Posted on 06-09-06 10:54 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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And.... of course I would not want to be with someone who would not respect me for my very essense of being and who would not accept me as I am.

just a response on ur earlier post
" Are you sure the reason behind your conversion is due your childhood? I smell
something else.If you are doing this
for your love . What kind of love you got who doesn't even respect your
beliefs?(nothing personal)Does love need religion. " - buy Imi
 
Posted on 06-09-06 11:15 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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hey Felicity ,
I am not guru in hindu religion or something.I just tend to see things from different angle.This is goes for my spiritual, scientific and logical explanations of stuff that you hear on hindu religion.
here is how it goes, you ask me somethings that you don't like about Hindusim (or social issues that people interepreted differently)and i try to explain why , how and what it means.This is again my view there is nothing that anybody has to agree on that.I will try my best.:)
 
Posted on 06-09-06 12:20 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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Hindu religion is more than 5000 years old .It was not in very organized form but it evolved and assimilated with different
beliefs along its growth.The main followers of Hindu religion were Aryans- the white race(now roots of Germans,north indians
and westerners).As the time went by, these people made home in the indus river valley.During that era - the main source of food
was agriculture and cattles.female species were always respected in Hindu religion than in any other.that is why you see for
everygod their is goddess.Female are considered more powerful than male.During that time male and female were equally responisible
for the finance and household.But society defined the male dominace because of physical strength later on.(i am diverting
little bit here cause i want to potray the respect for female in Hinduism that you cannot find in any other religion)
Ok now coming back
Cow is female species.If you eat cow then who is going to give milk and produce more cows (that these people are so dependent on)that is why
a society norms became one of the priniciples of (patched) to hinduism.

Now time has changed there are people who produces cows in mass quanities:).If you like you can go ahead eat it.Hindu
religion doesn't stop you from eating cow.It gives you flexibility too choose.Then again. it is better not to eat as it is stressed
centuries after another why? because many people then might have experimented eating cows.Which that time might have
got mad cow dieases. Who knows??Some of the recent finding of science has been found way ahead of time during that
period Only problem is people do not get to interpert correctly or people took wrong meaning out of it.

As time passed there were many branches of Hindusim .Some supports eating meat then some doesn't.hindu religion
basically is not a religion .It is teaches way to lead a content life.So it leaves upto your judgement.What can be better
than this???????there is no hard and fast rules.

It acknowlege sex as vital part of life .most religion shy away with that context or have stong stance on it.Why- then again
other religion were more focused on getting powerful supports on male dominant societies.

I can explain caste system too .if you understood this.:)

HINDU IS NOT RELIGION IT IS WAY OF LIFE - WHICH HAS BEEN DEFINED AS IT HAS GROWN FROM THE BEST EXAMPLES.
IT IS THE MOST NATURE FRIENDLY, LOGICAL ,SCIENTIFIC SCHOOLS OF THOUGHTS THAT EXIST AS A RELIGION.
 
Posted on 06-09-06 3:53 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
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You are getting your points across..... explain caste systme too, please
 



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