हैन भवानी बराल  ज्यू , तपाई ब्राह्मण भएर किन लिम्बूवान लाई १८३१ श्रावन २२ गते को सन्धि अनुसार स्वतन्त्र घोषणा गर्न सकिन्छ
 भनेर उत्तेजक  भाषण दिनु हुन्छ ?

 
@ Daaku
Eventually you forced me to write

1)Malla King was a land grabber so the Kathmandu people helped the Shah king.(Kathmandu Valley was the epic center of everything in what is today Nepal.Arts,trade,education..you name it.Gorkha was a poor kingdom in the hills.Let's compare present day New York and Kathmandu)

As per historical accounts just one army died during annexation of kathmandu. How? Who did open the main city gate, how did gorkhalis enter the city? gorkhalis captured Patan even without slightest blood spill. How? What was the role of 5 pradhans? Have you ever heard of this? Why do you think not only JP Malla's generals but his own wife and family members did not support him ? Everything was pre-set. If not there would be at least few more casulties at the entry point of the city. Do you think the kathmandu city was without any stampade/ gate? Find some high level nepalese history book and read. 

2)Saved Kathmandu from Muslim Bengal and Christian missionaries.(Limbuwan,Malaria infested jungles and numerous smaller kingdoms had to be conquered before getting into Kathmandu from the easter corridor and that was the only way for the Bengalis to get in)

Haha, don't you know a Bengali ruler named Gayasudding tuglak or Samasuddin Tuglak (I admit I am confused here) already destroyed kathmandu city once? If malaria was the bar how the heck gorkhalis extended their victory campaign upto the teesta including terai and charkose jhadi (it included huge norhtern part of nowadyas bihar, was malaria eradicated then )? Do you still believ Malla kings who divided valley into 3 prinicpalities could protect kathmandu till now? If not Gorkhali someone else. Have you ever heard/ read P N Shah shunned christian missionaries out of kathmandu valley after the victory? If you have not ...go and read nepalese history. (I am not meaning 6 or 7 standard social study or wikipedia).


3)Nepal(No concrete evidence on what it means)

Ask a Newar guy, what does NEPA: means and which people were known as Nepalese pre-1825 BS.

4)No Newar army.The Magars,Khas and Yadavs fought for Kritipur,(With this claim you are discrediting the huge Newar population of the valley.You are knowingly/unknowingly stereotyping the Newars as kayars)

I have nowhere said Newars were kayars. May be they were not interested in the military profession. I still have said nagarkotis were there. Why does singapore goverment recruit nepalese as Singapore police? Are all Singaporean coward? What about Indian army? Why most of the indian recruitment is from Himanchal, Uttarakhanda, Punjab etc? Have you ever heard of  role of kaptan (Captain) Gajabal Bista and Atibal Bista of Lalitpur to support P N Shah to win Kathmandu/ Lalitpur ? FYI: they were not gorkhali. Did you ever know swaroop Singh Karki, cheif of Tirhute army who amassed a tirhute army and marched towards kathmandu to support J P Malla, but on his way he stuck with P N Shah?? Do you still believe PN Shah came out of the blue and attacked kathmandu without any pre plans and set ups? If you have not read then you are so naive to discuss about the history of Nepal.

My point being,when you make such tall claims...you have to back it up with some concret evidence or scholarly articles.

Yes, you are right here. I will try to do from next time for sure. If you have any misgiving about my TALL CLAIM you can check it's validity bro. You can do some search.

P.S. You didn't miss a chance to say that11 th GR was formed in 1948 but in the process you knowingly didn't mention that their roots went back to the 7th and 10th GR.

If you read again you will be clear. Did I say rais and limbus were not in the GR? When did they get their own ethnic regiment? Did I mention it wrong? In the beggining there were just a few JATIYA regiment, most of them were mixed. And the contex there was about khas and if they were of martial race or not.  You wanted me  to deviate from the main topic there?

YOU SOUNDED MORE LIKE A LAWYER WHO TRIES TO SNARE PEOPLE WITH HIS TRICKY WORDS. IF MY STATEMENTS ARE WRONG WHY DON'T YOU TELL THE REAL STORY? CAN YOU DO THAT? 

 A quick hit ........and I hope you will trust my tall claims now (however i read these fact somewher else)

Acquisition Of Guthi Lands Of Taleju Temple

 

From King Rajendra,

           

            King Mahendra Malla had endowed 2¼ ropanis of rice land at Malatar as Guthi for the temple of Taleju. This land has been acquired for the construction of a military cantonment. The same area of land at two places is hereby granted from the Sera (Crown) holdings of the Hitichok (royal household office), and existing Guthi endowment thereby retained. The Guthiyar shall accept the land thus granted in exchange, and use the income therefrom to perform the customary (religious) functions.

 

Magh Badi 11, 1881

(January 1825)

Regmi Research Collections, Vol. 29, P. 9.

 

(Guthi land endowments made by King Jaya Prakash Malla and others for the temples of Bhairava, Kumari, etc were similarly acquired for military purposes on the same date).

 

 Author: Dr. Dilli Raman Regmi                     

 himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/.../regmi_06.doc

 

 

 

In view of his distrust in Parbata troos, Jaya Prakash Malla created a Madhise army with recruits drawn from the southern plains. Feeling doubtful of the loyalty of the Parbata force, he naturally, began to rely more and more heavily on the Madhise army. With the help of his Madhise troops, he had 8 Parbate offices, including Kashiram Thapa, beheaded at Gaurighat in 1746 A.D. Bhimkhwal Kaji, who had defeated to the Parbates, was also executed, while Taudhik Kaji fled to save his life. This was naturally resented by the people of Kathmandu. This is why they sympathized with some of the courtiers of Jaya Prakash Malla in their conspiracy against him, which had also been backed secretly by the kings and courtiers of Patan and Bhadgaun.

   Author: Surya Bikram Gyawali  ....same link

I never bullshit bro....

 @Nalapni

1.The six Pradhans in various points of Malla history has been instrumental in making and breaking of Malla  Kings.They were the elites,and their cooperation(treason) with  P.N Shah,who lured them with an assurance of  lucrative post does not translate into that being the will of the people of Kathmandu.Pain and simple,they were traitors.P.N Shah slaughtered them the very next day,one escaped.

YesJ.P Malla's wife Dayawati betrayed him.She died in prison after J.P Malla came back to power again.The kajis,who were part of the conspiracy were hanged to death.

I don't know about the gates in Kathmandu and the body count,but your claim that the citizens of a very prosperous sovereign nation begging for an invasion(Sikkim example won't work here) is anything but believable..

2)It was Shamsuddin llyas Shah who supposedly attacked Kathmandu.I kind of don't believe it though,i maybe wrong.They only attacked Kathmandu for the loot and left.The Malla kingdoms were said to be secular.The kings practiced both hinduism and buddhism.Muslims were invited to Kathmandu during the reign of Ratna Malla.Christian missionaries too thrived during that time.

Do you see anything wrong with the picture.Yes,P.N Shah chased and persecuted the christians,that part is true.Should we stand up and applaud for what he did?

3)There is a reference to a Ne Muni behind the name Nepal too.

4)Kathmandu valley was rich so i do believe that it sourced some of it's force from faraway land.But Please,no nation would have handed over it's security to a bunch of foreign mercenary.

5)Your undertone was "We are/were the hardest".

I wish i was a lawyer.

Great King P.N Shah was the founder of our nation.If it wasn't for him there would be no Nepal and no Nepalese.He has the utmost respect of us all Nepalese.Most of the Shah kings were hawa,but he was the man,King of Kings.My post may suggest i am discrediting what him and his troops acheived,which is not the case.He was our king and will  always remain so.

P.S  The acquisition letter doesn't mean anything.Now something intresting here,Kashiram Thapa was accused of cooperating with P.N Shah.He was said to have promised P.N Shah to get Nuwakot back for him.Kashiram Thapa was said to have have pleaded innocence until the last moment,but he was eventually killed.Now funnily,this killing enraged P.N Shah.Do you see some connection here?He headed straight for Nuwakot and kicked out the thirty two Tirhutiya Bahuns J.P Malla had planted.That was the first day in the decline of J.P Malla.

 I can read a post by "Sirupate_brigade" on this topic in my phone but not in my desktop.Whay happened here?

मित्रहरु ! मैले यो धागो त भवानी बराल जी को बिचारको लागि लिंक मात्र राखेको थिए तर साथी हरुले गहन बहस थाल्नु भयो | केहि पूर्वाग्रही प्रतिक्रिया लाइ छाडेर बाँकि प्रतिक्रिया हरु अत्यन्तै सममित र शिष्टतपुर्वक राख्नु भएको मा सबै प्रतिक्रिया दिनु हुनेसाथीहरु लाई धन्यवाद दिन चाहन्छु

 "______" मित्रलाई मेरो पनि  नमस्कार !  साथै  मेरो  बारेमा सरोकार राख्नु भएको मा धन्यवाद दिन चाहन्छु -  २  महिना को लागि नेपाल गएको थिए | त्यसैले साझा मा आउन सकिएन | त्यत्रो सम्मान गरेर सम्बोधन गरि राक्नु पर्दैन नि हो साथी !  हाम्रो विचार  मात्रै नमिलेको हो , व्यक्तिगत रुपमा हामीले यसलाई ठुलो इगो बनाई राक्नु हुन्न  |

तपाइले बुदागत रुपमा राक्नु  भएको सबै विचार हरु अत्यन्तै सुन्दर छन र उक्त कुरा हरु लाई सम्बोधन गर्न जरुरि छन् |
इतिहास मा भएको गल्ति कमजोरी हरुलाई राम्ररी केलाउनु भएको छ र त्यस बाट सिक्नु पर्छ भन्ने कुरा संग कसरि असहमत हुन् सकिन्छ ! आवास ,इन्धन ,यातायात ,शिक्षा , स्वास्थ्य , रोजगारी  हाम्रो लागि प्रमुख चुनौती हरु हुन् | लगभग २५० वर्ष सम्म उक्त चुनौती हरुलाई सम्बोधन गर्न केन्द्रीकृत व्यवस्था असफल भएको ले  संघिय व्यवस्था मा जानु परेको कुरा हामी सबै लाई थाहा भएको नै हो | नेपाल मा क्षेत्रि / ठकुरी हरुले केहि चतुर ब्राह्मण हरुको सहयोग मा अरु जातजाति माथि शाशन गरे | लोक सेवा आयोग आफु अनुकुल बनाए - सेनामा  आफ्ना छोरा,नाति ,जुवाई /चेला र आफ्ना लठैत भर्ना गर्ने संस्था बनाए |  नेपालको कर्मचारी हरु मा ३% जनजाति रहेछन  र बाँकि ९७ प्रतिशत ब्राह्मण, क्षेत्रि, नेवार र मधिसे मुलका हरु छन् | नेपालको प्राकृतिक स्रोतमा स्थानीय जनता को अधिकार कहिले देख्नु भएको छ ? नेपालका ब्राह्मण ,क्षेत्रि , मधिसे र नेवार हरुको प्रभुत्व रहेको प्रसाशन र सरकार ले नदि नाला हरु सबै बिदेसी कम्पनि हरुलाई बेचेर र सिद्यौना लागि सकेको छन् - उधाहरण माथिल्लो कर्णाली लाइ गिरिजाल कोइरालाले  इन्डियन कम्पनि लाई अनुमति दिएका थिए |   

नेपालको लगभग ४० प्रतिसत खस-आर्य समुदाय संग  सत्रु मोलेर  लिम्बूवान को पक्षम उभिदा तपाइले भवानी बराल जी लाई ठग को पंतिमा राक्नु हुन्छ भने मेरो भन्नु केहि छैन | भवानी बराल जी को  सत्य को पक्षमा बोल्ने साहसको लिम्बूवान पक्षधर् जनताले  कदर अबश्य गर्ने छन्  | लिम्बुहरु लाटो जाति हुन् -  ढिलो तर दिगो हुन्छन - मित्रता का लागि ज्यान दिन पनि तयार हुन्छन | त्यसैले भवानी बराल जी को  भबिस्य उज्वल नै देख्छु | 

नेपालको ठुलो पोस्टमा एक दुइ जना जनजाती  राखेर हामीलाई मुर्ख बनउने दिन गए अब -  हेर्नुस नेपालको CDO हरु कति जना राइलिम्बू , गुरुङ , मगर , तामांग , थारु हरु छन् - कति जना राजदुत हरु यी समुदाय बाट छन् - मैले उल्लेख गरेका यी जाति बाहेक का अरु जाति हरु को कुनै अस्तित्व नै देखिदैन - अनि कसरि हुन्छ समानता ?  मैले यो कुरा भन्दा फेरी पढेको हुनु पर्छ भन्नु होला | छात्रवृत्ति पाएर  विदेश  अध्यन गर्ने  अवसर नपाए पनि  हालका दिनहरुमा आफ्नै खर्च मा उलेख्य मात्र मा जनजाती हरु पनि विदेश मा पढेका छन् |  छात्रवृत्ति   पाउन त  ब्राह्मण , क्षेत्रि ,  नेवार र मधिसे  भएर नै जन्मनु पर्छ नेपालमा- लौ ठिकै छ  योग्य र पढेको हरुले मात्रै  देशको सत्ता र   प्रशासन चलाउनु पर्छ भन्ने मान्यता पनि ठिकै हो तर त्यत्रो  योग्य र  उच्च शिक्षा लिएका ब्राह्मण क्षेत्रि , नेवार र मधेसे हरुले नेपाल राष्ट्र लाइ त संसार कै गरिव र असफल राष्ट्र मा दर्ता गर्न लागि सके नि त यसको जिम्मिवर यी समुदयेले लिनै पर्ने हुन्छ |
हो यस्तै असमानता लाई नजिक बाट निगरानी राख्न र स्थानीय प्राकृतिक स्रोत लाइ  भ्रस्टचारी मन्त्रि हरु बाट जोगौना  ऐतिहासिक पृष्टभुमि को आधारमा राज्य को नामकरण गर्नु पर्छ भन्ने हाम्रो मान्यता हो | अब राज्य को नामकरण मा नै कुरा मिलि नसकेको अवस्थामा  ५ बर्से , १० बर्से योजना हरु अहिले नै बनाउनु अलि चाडै पो होला कि ! तर तपाइले भन्नु भएको जस्तो  ठोस गुरु योजना हरु हुनु अत्यन्तै जरुरि छ र उक्त कुरा हरु राज्य पुनर संरचना पछि पनि गर्न सकिन्छ |

kishorlimbu सोम,
 नेपाल बिग्रेको कुनै एक जातको व्यक्तिले गर्दा होला कि गलत र असछ्यम व्यक्तिहरु ले गर्दा होला ?
गिरिजालाई तपाई बाहुन भाको ले घृणा गर्नुहुन्छा कि नाकाम र भ्रस्ट भाको ले ?
तपाइलाई के लाग्छा,किन एउटा बाहुन,छेत्री अथवा नेवार परिवारमा लक्का र टाठो छोरा जन्मियो भने आब doctor,engineer or officer यो बन्छ  भन्छन भने एउटा गुरुङ परिवारमा छोराले ८ क्लास पास गर्ने बित्तिकै अब त भर्ति हुनु पर्छा भनेर  बिहान बिहानै  exercise गर्न पठाऊछन् ?
किन पूर्व को होस् कि पश्चिमको होस् ,दुर्गम गाउँका धेरै नेवार,बाहुन,छेत्री राष्ट्रिय स्तरमा नाम कमौना सकेका छन् तर पोखरा,काठमाडौँ र धारण जस्ता ठाउँ मा भएर नि जनजातीहरु कि एउटा ठुलो जमात मोजमस्ती   र लड़किबजीमै रमाई र छन् ?I m talking about the last 60+ years of democracy where at least schools were established fo learning and everyone was welcome.
why the  bahuns from the nearby remote  districts come to cities like ktm,pokhara and dharan/biratnagar and study their ass off and become officers and journalists and the ghardhanis in these cities (also mainly janajatis) just hang around and spoil themselves?

aafno angma pani hernu paryo som.living standards kai kura garne ho bhane ta khas dalits are way under the janajatis.what they lack is presence in state beaurocracy.foreign mercenary bhayera state representation badhdaina som.CoS gurung chief bhako gurung bhayera  hoina able,experienced ra seniormost bhayera ho .

daaku bro,
the mallas of ktm were tirahutias(maithils) who spoke maithali n their courts and married women from the south .they practised a stricter version of hinduism but still tolerated the buddhist population of the valley.
their main military force consisted of pahadis (tamangs,khas and magars) and tirahutias(those from tirahut).

 Limbu som, 
                              What  illogical arguments ???

किशोर लिम्बु जी
""नेपालको ठुलो पोस्टमा एक दुइ जना जनजाती  राखेर हामीलाई मुर्ख बनउने दिन गए अब -  हेर्नुस नेपालको CDO हरु कति जना राइलिम्बू , गुरुङ , मगर , तामांग , थारु हरु छन् - कति जना राजदुत हरु यी समुदाय बाट छन् - मैले उल्लेख गरेका यी जाति बाहेक का अरु जाति हरु को कुनै अस्तित्व नै देखिदैन - अनि कसरि हुन्छ समानता ?  मैले यो कुरा भन्दा फेरी पढेको हुनु पर्छ भन्नु होला | छात्रवृत्ति पाएर  विदेश  अध्यन गर्ने  अवसर नपाए पनि  हालका दिनहरुमा आफ्नै खर्च मा उलेख्य मात्र मा जनजाती हरु पनि विदेश मा पढेका छन् |  छात्रवृत्ति   पाउन त  ब्राह्मण , क्षेत्रि ,  नेवार र मधिसे  भएर नै जन्मनु पर्छ नेपालमा- लौ ठिकै छ  योग्य र पढेको हरुले मात्रै  देशको सत्ता र   प्रशासन चलाउनु पर्छ भन्ने मान्यता पनि ठिकै हो तर त्यत्रो  योग्य र  उच्च शिक्षा लिएका ब्राह्मण क्षेत्रि , नेवार र मधेसे हरुले नेपाल राष्ट्र लाइ त संसार कै गरिव र असफल राष्ट्र मा दर्ता गर्न लागि सके नि त यसको जिम्मिवर यी समुदयेले लिनै पर्ने हुन्छ |"

ल भन्नुस त लोकसेवा आयोग को खरदार वा सुब्बा वा अधिकृत को जाच मा कति जना जनजाती सहभागी हुन्छन ? कि सिधै CDO हुने कुरा गर्ने गर्नु भाको ? लोक सेवा आयोग को जाच निस्पक्च्या हुदैन तेसैले जाच नदिएको नभनु होला | सबै जना ले सामान्यता विश्वास गरेको कुरा हो यो निस्पक्च्या हुन्छ | B A , MA पास गर्दैमा लोकसेवा मा अधिकृत हुन्छ भन्ने sure हुन्न , अनि खरदार को जागिर खाएर काठमाडौँ मा एउटा कोठा पनि भाडा मा लिन नसकेर साथीहरु संग मिलेर बस्ने अनि टुप्पी बाधेर सुब्बा र अधिकृत को तयारी गर्ने काम तेती सजिलो छैन | अहिले त BA पास गरेका जनजाती लाई सिधै अधिकृत हुन धेरै धेरै सजिलो छ | ५०% त arachyan नै छ | बाकी ५०% मा मात्र खुल्ला प्रतिस्पर्दा हुन्छ | सन्त बहादुर राई थिए जो सचिब बाट retired भएर लोक सेवा आयोग को chairman भए सबै खुल्ला प्रतिस्पर्दा बाट , अहिले एती सजिलो छ बिगत ६/७ वर्ष देखि , तेही पनि येत्रो गुनासो |

अनि scholarship को कुरा मा GT ब्रो ले कतै दिएको example दिन मन lagyo | एउटा साथी मरी मरी padcha , गरिब बाउ आमा ले नखाई नखाई गरेर पठाएको खर्च ले पढेर राम्रो number पनि lyaucha , entrance पनि राम्रो अंक lyaucha , तर कथित उपलो जति भाको ले scholarship पौदैना | तर अर्को साथी जस्तो बुवा र dai ब्रिटिश आर्मी मा छन् , केवल जात कै आधार मा scholarship पाउछ

अर्को एउटा कुरा थप्न मन लग्यो :
कहिले कहिँ एउटा कुरा सुनिन्छ , जनजाती हरु लै सरकारी अड्डा जस्तै , जिल्ला प्रसासन , नगरपालिका आदि मा काम भएन , बाहुन हाकिम रैछ  पैसा माग्यो आदि भंचन  | यो वाइयात कुरा लाग्छ | अहिले सम्म कुनै मान्छे भेटेको छैन जो बाहुन वा छेत्री भएको ले काम छिटो भाको होस्  | एदी कर्मचारी गलत नियत को रैछ भने बाहुन छेत्री गुरुङ राई जो संग पनि पैसा खान खोज्छ , एदी इमान्दार छ भने नियम अनुसार काम गर्छ |

मैले कतिपय ठाउमा पढेको छु | पढे लेखे का जनजाती र दलित हरु (येस्मा निहित स्वार्थ भएका राजनीति गर्ने दलित , जनजाती पर्दैनन् ) का अनुसार यो इज्जत र समानता भन्ने कुरा education को स्तर र आर्थिक स्तर ले ल्याउने रैछ | ठुलो संख्या मा कथित उप्पलो जात का मान्छे पनि  education को स्तर र आर्थिक स्तर को कमि ले गर्दा अपहेलित छन् | तेसैले सबै मिलेर यी वर्ग लै माथि उठाउ,  हुन्न | तेस्को लागि जतिय्रा राज्य पनि चाहिन्न, जातीय आधार को aryachan पनि चाहिन्न |

लिम्बु भाई

खास कुरा चै के हो भने तिम्रो लिम्बु कल्चर मा पड़ने लेख्ने कुरा को केहि महत्वो नै छैन. अलि पढे लेखेका लिम्बु खोज्न पर्यो भने टुकी लिएर खोज्न हिन्न पर्छ | अब तिम्रो लिम्बु क्लान बाट सरकारी जागिर मा धेरै representation नहुनु को कारण पनि पढाई नै हो | अब मेरो बिचार को आसय चै लिम्बु हरु मुर्ख हुन्छन भन्ने होइन | लिम्बु हरु ले पढाई लेखाइ गरेर रोजी रोटि खानु भन्दा अरु नि शिप गरेर खांदा रमाइलो र बढी आर्थिक लाभ हुने देखेर नपढेका हुन् |

अब तिमीले येसरी सस्तो ढंग ले लेखेउ कि CDO अथवा राजदूत हुन बाहुन भए पुग्छ | बाहुन, नेवार अथवा मधेसी ले CDO हुन जति संघर्स गर्यो तेती नै संघर्स लिम्बु ले गर्ने हो भने लिम्बु लै राजदूत बन्ने बाटो छेक्न आउन कोइ पनि हुन्नन् | अझै पनि भन्छु, लिम्बु राजदूत हुने नहुने बाटो आफैले रोजेका हुन् |

अब तिम्रो पोस्तिंग पढ्दा कहिले कर्मचारी तन्त्र मा ९७% बाहुन छेत्री नेवार र मधेसी छन् भन्छु अनि कहिले बाहुन ले जनजाती लै पछाडी पर्यो भन्चौ | मधेसी र नेवार जनजाती हुन् कि होइनन? अब तेही सिस्टम मा मधेसी र नेवार ले चै भाग पाउने तर तिमि लिम्बु ले चै नपाउने? अरु जनजाती हरु भाग लिंदा तिम्रा लिम्बु दाजु भाई हरु चै के गर्दै थिए त??? म लिम्बु भाको भए तिम्रो तोरीलाउरे अर्गुमेंट ले त ओफ्फेन्देद हुन्थे |

लिम्बु हरु लाटो जाति हुन् रे???? एस्तो लेखना र भन्न लाज लाग्दैन तिमीलाई??? थुक्क तिम्रो बुद्धि....तिमि लाटो भयेउ भन्दै मा सबै लिम्बु लाटो हुन्छन?? फेरी लिम्बु हरु लै लाटो भन्दै प्रचार प्रसार गर्ने अनि फेरी लाटोलाई नै देश चलाउन दिन पर्छ पनि भन्ने? म लिम्बु भाको भए तिमीलाई कसेर झापु दिने थिए | म बाहुन हु र मा यो भन्छु कि नेपाल को कोहि पनि जनजाती लाटो छैनन्| होला कोइले अलि बादी देखेका सुनेका पढेका होलान तर यो जात लाटो र यो जात बाठो भन्ने ५०० सय वर्ष पुरानो विचार हो |

अलैंची बेचेर state चलाउने कुरा गर्छन तीम्रा नेता...अलैची को पैसा जति सबै state तन्त्र मा खर्च गरेर अलैंची किसान ले चाइ के खाने नि ? फेरी अहिले चै अलैंची को पैसा प्रचंडे ले खाको छ हो??? अलैंची र चिया को पैसा त तिम्रै गाउ क मान्छे ले खको छन् त....खोइ तिम्रो गाउ को विकास भाको???

तिमि जस्ता लिम्बु लाइ मेरो सुजब छ....प्रोब्लेम को जरो पत्ता लगाऊ र तेही अनुसार आफ्नो लक्ष्य बनाउ..अझै पनि समय छ.....लिम्बु लै राजदूत र CDO बनाउन छ भने...आफ्ना साना लिम्बु भाई हरुलाई पढाई र leadership को अर्थ सिकौनुस. सायद १५ - २० वर्ष मा लिम्बु हरु पनि CDO बन्ने छन् |

 नेपाली लाउरे जी को कुरामा केहि थप्न मन लाग्यो. 

हुन त यो किशोर जी ले खोल्नु भएको thread, उहाले एउटा बिशाये उठाउन भयो, तेही बिशयेमा बहस गर्नु राम्रो तर कहाँ बाट डाकु ले अर्को बिशयेमा बहस सुरु गरेर अझ तेस्माथी मलाई के हो आरोप लगाएर के भन्नु. हुन त डाकु हरु को काम नै तेस्तै होइन र अर्का को चोर्ने ? एकजना ले एउटा बिशयेमा बहस को लागि thread  खोलेको हुन्छ अरुले तेस्लाई चोरेर आफ्नो इक्च्या अनुसार को बहस गर्छन. अझ डाकु हरु त एस्तो मा एकदमै चलाख, अब नाम अनुसार को काम त गर्ने पर्यो 

 

Mr. Daaku,
“Dharke is propagandist “

 

lol. I do not support any cast any religion and "pahichhan" . I love to learn my lessons by studying others strength and mistakes they made. That’s easy way of learning things. To learn by owns mistakes first you need to make mistakes and some mistakes could cost you fortune. In my opinion that is the hard way of learning things. I learned from mistakes made by Europeans after the collapse of Roman Empire. My belief is also based on present need of the society and its flow., not influenced by cast,jaat and religion  
That does not mean I should ban any other belief so most of the time I repost thoughts of many beliefs. Society and human nature are  not like laws of physics they do not obey certain fixed rule. It is the continuous positive discussion that drives the society forward. So, by banning thoughts from some quarter of the society we may be delaying the progress. That is why I repost thoughts of different quarter of the society some of those thoughts you may have liked or it may have satisfied your ego some others may have fueled your ego. And, lately I may have reposted many thoughts which may have heightened your ego. But that is not my problem.

Someone somewhere asked a question "What is the sexiest part of your body"

Answer was "brain"
Because is the brain who first thinks about sex, asks glands to secret hormones then only our sex organs act.

Likewise, your entire claim about me seems like one of the side product of your ego, originated in your brain,  which most probably came from your incomplete study of history and society. I see you trying to debate about history with NALAPANI questioning about the version of the history he read. But what about the history you read? Don’t you feel necessary to question about the version of the History you read? That is why I said incomplete study of history. When you do not study (self study included) some subject thoroughly you will have more

 When you do not study (self study included) some subject thoroughly you will have more questions than answers. 

You seem to have more questions than answers; at present we need a person who has more answers and less questions and respect different thoughts.
But different thoughts sound propaganda to you, here I can be of no help, As Lord Buddha said everything is inside yourself you don’t have to go out or look for others for good as well as for bad So, instead of slandering me why don’t you look inside yourself first?

"You are the enemy"

Again it is your brain my friend, you may see me as a demon. But to be frank with you, I come to Sajha not to become a hero. I do not have a desire to be one either. I am happy being who I am. I express my belief, repost others thoughts published somewhere else and go against the thought which I think are against the norms of civilized world. That is it. So, it is up to you how you want to "see" me.


"I seriously wish and pray that the above poster meant what he said."
lol, lol
Now you even trying to tell me I am a sort of hypocrite, looks like you have a good collection of negative words in your vocabulary. I can only say that you may have difficulty in processing different thoughts or you may have habit of extrapolating them to negative direction only. Try extrapolating towards positive side once a while; you might see a different picture.

"I doubt you and me can ever have a good conversation"

If you are in doubt then do not have conversation with me; it is as simple as that. I am not begging you for one. There are plenty in Sajha to have conversation with  for you as well as for me. In fact, I will not have enough time to have conversation with all.

 "I won't be replying to you."

Ha, ha, as if I am dying for your reply, who is forcing you to reply, I never did, did I?

You are not going to reply me that means, I have the leverage of saying anything I want to, lol. But don’t worry I won’t do that. I do not have habit of taking advantage of others weakness/mistakes.

But a friendly suggestion, First, in society you never close the door for debate, second, never act on impulse. Unfortunately, in my opinion, you did both.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

@Dharke,i am taking my word back and replying .

I am here to learn/debate/question.I am not going to be force fed opinions/hearsay for fact, so naturally i question/doubt/protest/point fingers.

If it was not for your last article,i would have still called you a propagandist.Contrary to your claim, most of your articles were fear mongering.For someone who claims to have an open mind,you did not post anything from the "other" perspective(I agree that i didn't read every single post of yours after some time )..

I don't claim of being a very learned person but i do have a brain of my own.I can see/analyze my surroundings.

My discussion with Nalapani is totally different.I agree i did divert the thread,sorry about that.His take on Nepali history is from the eyes of the ruler.Does questioning him make me a dick?

Thank you for dedicating  all those paragraphs to make me look inferior.I am open for ideas and debate.

@everybody else

My take on two most important issues regarding federalism

1)Naming of the state:If the majority of the population find naming the state on ethnic lines offensive than what is in a name?Name it anything.But when it comes to craving a state,it should be done in such a way that the "mulbasi' of the land make atleast 30% of the state population.

2)Reservation/Quota: This is a double edged sword.While it can do wonders to the marginalised community,it would also do injustice to the ones who do not fall into that category.I hope we can find a solution to this.Personally,i would care less about this.

@daaku,
I am not starting another debate and am just saying my personal views too.
All people are jumping in this debate coz most of the people do not have any idea what the heck this is all about including me. If you are just advocating name of the states, I am with you. I would love to have newa, magar, tamu name to the states of Nepal but what is on the air is that janajaatis want the reservations and post allocated to them so that they can spend government money on jatras and other ethnical traditions. I am against any state sponsored facilities to any caste or groups and reservations. I would care very less about the names, what I care is about the equality and the peace. And I think if anyone start the discussion saying janajaatis wants same equal opportunity, noone will deny their rights but if they want special privilege then its different. And lastly I personally would like to see the all the states having access to borders of both north and south neighbors and having very diverse resources for their developments.

Keeping the naming of states aside, the issue of reservation is very complex and a normative issue. So everyone may have their own views. I have mentioned in my above post , using the provision in Interim Constitution, there are laws for more than 6/7 years according to which  only 50% of the open positions are fulfilled through open/free competion in Lok Sewa and among school and university teachers. I think there is some reservation in army and police too, but i dont know the exact number. 

Given the fact that even the 2047 constitution had an Article allowing government, by framing the appropriate laws and regulations,  to provide reservation for disadvantaged group and gender, no one can imagine the same provision will not be in the new constitution.

In the situation the newly formed state may try to frame their constitution and laws giving too much favor to people of few ethnic group and thus let the smaller group suffer. To stop that, the federal constitution must have some provision which forbids the states to make provision of reservation of more than 25%. That means at least 75% of the open positions are fulfilled through open and free competion.[personally i would love to see a 100% free competion, but the reality is, that is simply not possible]. Besides, the Federal Supreme court should be strong and able to safeguard the rights of people.

हुनत यो बिषयमा मैले धेरै लेखिसकेकोले किशोर लिम्बु सरको प्रश्नको एक लाइन सिधा उत्तर दिएर यो धागोमा आफ्नो बहसलाई टुङ्याउनु खोजेको थिए । तर थुप्रै साथीहरुले प्रस्तुत गर्नु भएका विभिन्न तर्क र तथ्यहरुलाई पढ्दा भने यस धागोमा नलेखी बस्न सकिन ।

१. म यो धागोमा नालापानी साथीले राखेको ऐतिहासिक तथ्यहरुको प्रसंशा गर्छु र त्यस्तै डाँकुको प्रश्नहरु पनि दमदार नै छन् । हामी आफ्नो ईतिहासमा गर्व गर्न सक्छौ, ईतिहासबाट पाठ सिक्न सक्छौ र प्रेरणा लिन सक्छौ । तर देशको वर्तमान र भावी योजनाहरु बनाउनको लागि भने यस्ता ऐतिहासिक तथ्यहरु होइन धर्के साथीहरुले राखेको जस्ता वर्तमानको यथार्थ नै आवश्यक हुन्छ । मित्र किशोर लिम्बु पूर्वी नेपाल ईतिहासको कुनै कालखण्डमा लिम्बुवान थियो भनेर मान्नलाई मलाई कुनै आपत्ति छैन । तर यदी संघीय राज्यको निर्माण गर्दा बर्तमानको तथ्यहरुलाई एकातिर पाखा लगाएर ईतिहासको आधारमा मात्र गरिन्छ भने त्यो वैज्ञानीक पनि हुँदैन र त्यसले अवश्य पनि विवाद ल्याउछ ।

२. पंचायती व्यवस्था हटाएर बहुदल ल्याउदा होस् वा राजतन्त्र हटाएर गणतन्त्र ल्याउदा होस् वा अहिले माग भइरहेको जातिय पहिचान सहितको राज्यको सन्दर्भमा होस् राजनैतीक नेताहरु र अहिले आएर जातीय नेताहरुले हमेशा जनताको भावनासँग खेल्ने गरेका छन् । नेपाल र नेपालीको वास्तविक समस्या के हो भनेर कसैले मलाई सोध्यो भने मेरो उत्तर हुनेछ शिक्षा, स्वास्थ्य र रोजगारी । तर राजनैतीक पार्टीहरुको कार्यदिशा जनताहरुको मूल समस्या भन्दा एकदम विपरित सदैव शासन सत्तातिर नै केन्द्रित छ। के नेपालीहरुको यी सबै समस्याहरुको समाधान फरक फरक जातको नाममा संघीय राज्य बनाउने बित्तिकै हुन्छ ? कदापी हुँदैन । त्यसो भए यो सबै जातीयताको लडाईं किन ? आङकाजी शेर्पा जस्ता व्यक्तिहरु मुख्यमन्त्री हुन र भवानी बराल जस्ता व्यक्तिहरु मन्त्री हुन ।

३. आदिवासी, जनजाती, मूलवासी, अनाधीवासी यस्ता शब्दवलीहरुको जथाभावी प्रयोग । धर्के साथीले प्रस्तुत गरेकै केही सन्दर्भ सामाग्रीहरु हेर्ने हो भने पनि आदिवासी भनेर कुर्लिरहेका कतिपय जातीलाई वैज्ञानीक रुपमा आदिवासी भन्न नमिल्ने अवस्था छ । सम्पूर्ण बाहुन क्षत्रीहरुलाई आदिवासी बनाइनु कम्ती हास्यास्पद छैन । नेवार, शेर्पा, थकाली जस्ता आर्थिक सूचाकंहरुको माथिल्लो भागमा रहेका जातीहरुलाई पिछडिएका जातीको सूचीमा पार्नु कम्ती हाँसो उठ्दो छैन ।

४. बुझ्न नसकेको अर्को कुरा जातीय राज्य र जातीय पहिचान सहितको राज्य । साझामा लेख्ने मित्रहरुको त कुरै नगरौ जातीय नेताहरुमा पनि उनीहरुको खास माग के हो भन्ने कुरामा एकरुपता छैन । कसैलाई अग्राधिकार सहितको राज्य चाहिएको छ । कसैलाई चाँही आफ्नो जातको नाम मात्र राख्न पायो पुग्यो । आङकाजी शेर्पा जस्ता चाँही आफ्नो राज्यमा भएका हरेक चाँही चुच्चा नाकहरु काट्न उद्दत नै छन् भने गोबिन्द न्यौपाने जस्ता स्खलित बाजेहरु भने एउटा मूल जातीको वरीपरी अरु सबै जाती घुम्ने कल्पना गर्छन् । जातीय राज्य भने पनि जातीय पहिचान सहितको राज्य भने पनि जातीय नेताहरुको उद्देश्य भनेको अग्राधिकार कायम गर्नु नै हो । नत्र नाममै मरिहत्ते गर्नु पर्ने कुनै कारण छैन । यो सबै नेपाललाई द्रव्य शाहकालिन अवस्थामा फर्काउने प्रयास हो । चाहे लिम्बुवान राज्य हुँदाको अवस्था देखिनै बसेका हुन् वा चाहे दुई सय बर्ष अगाडि मात्र बसाइ सरेर आएका हुन् त्यो क्षेत्रमा बस्ने हरेक नेपालीको अधिकार उत्तिकै हुन्छ । नत्र त यो लिगलिगे दौड जस्तै भयो जो पहिले देखि बसेको छ उसको मात्रा अधिकार । यो लिम्बुवान नाम भवानी बराललाई मात्र स्विकार्य भएर हुँदैन । यदी त्यो क्षेत्रमा बस्ने अत्याधिक नेपालीलाई लिम्बुवान नाम राख्दा कुनै आपत्ती छैन भने मात्र त्यो नाम राख्नु उचित हुन्छ । बरु नाममा जोड दिनु साटो डाकुँले भने जस्तो गरेर संघीय राज्यको सिमा तोक्नु भने बुद्दीमानी हुन्छ । जतिनै वाचा वन्धन गरे पनि नेवा नाम राखे पछी म कहिले पनि नेवा राज्य मेरो पनि हो भनेर ढुक्क हुनसक्दिन ।

५. समावेशी र अग्राधिकार भन्दै हरेक सरकारी सेवामा पासपोर्ट बेच्नेलाई सभासद बनाए जस्तै केही योग्यतानै नभएका व्यक्तिहरुलाई सरकारी अफिसरमा धमाधम भर्ना गर्न मिल्दैन । नेपालको सिडियो जती सबै किन बाहुनै मात्र भए किन राइलिम्बु भएनन् भनेर सोध्नु अघि किन ति राइ लिम्बुहरु अलिकती पढाई सक्ने बित्तिकै बालुवाको बोरा बोकेर बिहानै बिहानै स्वयमभुको उकालो चढ्न गए र किन त्यो पश्चिम नेपालका बाहुनहरु आधा पेट्मै रात रात भर घोटिएर पढे भन्ने प्रश्न आँफैलाई गरौ अनि उत्तर आउँला कि ? राहुलभाइले दिनु भएको तथ्यलाई पनि एक चोटि हेरौ । धर्केले राखेको ... मगरको रिपोर्टलाई पनि हेरु युद्द मैदानमा मर्न त बाहुनहरु पनि त सक्ने रहेछन् तर तिनीहरु किन ब्रिटिश आर्मीमा छैनन् ? यदी राज्यले केही व्यवस्था गर्छ भने गरीब नेपाली ( जुनसुकै जाती होस्) को बच्चाहरुलाई एउटा तहसम्म निशुल्क शिक्षाको व्यवस्था गरोस । त्यो योग्यतानै नपुगेका व्यक्तिहरुलाई सरकारी सेवामा जातीय कोटामा भर्ना गरेर न त देशप्रती न्याय हुन्छ न त जातीय आधारमा बन्चित गरिएका योग्य व्यक्तिहरुप्रती ।

६. कुनै जाती बिशेष द्वारा अर्को जाती माथि, कुनै लिङ बिशेषद्वारा अर्को लिङ माथि, कुनै क्षेत्रको बासिन्दाद्वारा अर्को क्षेत्रको बासिन्दा माथि, कुनै एक भाषा बोल्ने समुहबाट अर्को भाषा बोल्ने समुह माथि गरिने भेदभाव, शोषण र अत्याचारलाई बाहुनबाद भन्नु सम्पूर्ण बाहुन जातीलाई बदनाम गर्नु हो कि होइन, यो चाँही भेदभाव हो कि होइन ? मैले यो परिभाषाकार डा. कृष्ण भट्टचनलाई सोधेको प्रश्नको जवाफ अहिलेसम्म पनि आएको छैन । मैले पहिले पनि भनेको छु न त मलाई मेरो बाउ बाजेको बिरता बेचेर खानु छ न त म उनिहरुले गरेका दुष्कर्मको फल भोग्न तयार छु । त्यसैले जवसम्म म कुनै अत्याचारी शोषक प्रविती देखाउदिन मेरो पहिचान माथि यो दाग किन ? आफ्नो पहिचानलाई त्यस्तो माया गर्ने व्यक्तिले अरुको पहिचानलाई पनि सम्मान गर्न सक्नुपर्‍यो नि । हो कृष्ण भट्टचन सर एकोहोरो रोटी पाक्दैन । त्यसैले अरुलाई यो गर र त्यो गर भन्नु अगाडि आफुले के गरे र के गर्नुपर्ला भनेर पनि एकपटक हेर्नुहोस् ।

७. जसरी नेपाल हिन्दू राज्यबाट बहुधार्मिक राज्यमा परिणत भयो अबको संघीय राज्यहरु कुनै किसिमको जातीय गन्ध नआउने हुनुपर्छ । मूलत: आर्थिक आधारलाई लिएर संघीय राज्यहरुको निर्माण गर्नुपर्छ । मैले पहिले पनि लेखिसके आजको आवश्यकता भनेको जातीय सम्मानको हो । आजको आवश्यकता भनेको जातीय पहिचानको चक्करलाई छोडेर नेपालीको वास्तविक समस्याहरुलाई कसरी हल गर्ने भन्ने हो ।

@goddamn

Your POV is highly appreciated.

@Nepalilaure

We can't leave the women behind either.Reservation looks like a necessay evil here.If possible,we should go ahead with reservation for the next 20 years with no clause of extension after that.As for the propotional representation in state and central assembly,i call it BS. If it has to be done,it shouldn't exceed 10%.

All in all,your take and analysis was spot on.

@Geology Tiger

"नेपालको सिडियो जती सबै किन बाहुनै मात्र भए किन राइलिम्बु भएनन् भनेर सोध्नु अघि किन ति राइ लिम्बुहरु अलिकती पढाई सक्ने बित्तिकै बालुवाको बोरा बोकेर बिहानै बिहानै स्वयमभुको उकालो चढ्न गए र किन त्यो पश्चिम नेपालका बाहुनहरु आधा पेट्मै रात रात भर घोटिएर पढे भन्ने प्रश्न आँफैलाई गरौ अनि उत्तर आउँला कि ? "

Word Bro.This is something i am having a hard time explaining.What makes a matwali youth sacrifice his youth for a foreign nation and what makes his bahun/chettri friends head to the city for greater things?Who is to be blamed here?The matwali youth who sees the "rich" lahure of his village as epitome of success or the system/society that produced the "rich" lahure,who for real is their greatest success story.Until and unless this effed up cycle is broken,there is no prosperous Nepal.

"हामीले पद्यौ.तिमीहरुले पदेनौ " is a very simplistic way to look at it..There is more to it.

I hope to read more from you.A very thought provoking post from an unbiased platform.

@Kishorlimbu

Blaming bahun/chettri for all our ill being is not only idiotic but also Racist.Have we been marginalised?Hell yeah.But why blame the current lot.Bygones are bygones.Like GT said ,why should he pay price for what his ancestors did?Let us all try to find a common ground and move on.

Lastly,in the midst of this HEAVY topic,who is the chwankest bahuni ever?